Guild Wars 2

+1
content upgrades r great. but there r huge differences in HOW u implement new stuff. anet shows how u shouldnt do it. time gated and rng is a bad way

I agree. I don’t see any advantage at all in time gating, as it just needlessly makes things stretched out, and benefits neither casuals (have you seen the items needed for ascended weapons? Little chance true casuals can do that stuff easily) nor hardcore players (most will already have a legendary). Ascended weapons are IMO aimed at the midlevel player, who will still login regardless.

I still say they need to make crafting a mini game: something like ddr/guitarhero/rockband style where you hit certain crafting skill buttons at the right time to craft stuff. The better the item, the faster it becomes and more “beats” are added.

Sollith.3502:

I still say they need to make crafting a mini game: something like ddr/guitarhero/rockband style where you hit certain crafting skill buttons at the right time to craft stuff. The better the item, the faster it becomes and more “beats” are added.

What an interesting idea.

I think it is a good idea to reward players who play more.
If it is done automatically then those who play once a month have the same thing as someone who is dedicated to play each day.
So I don’t agree with you.

Peets.8529:

I think it is a good idea to reward players who play more.
If it is done automatically then those who play once a month have the same thing as someone who is dedicated to play each day.
So I don’t agree with you.

The thing is that time gating does not necessarily reward those who play more.

Someone who can play one hour per day can complete seven dailies and so get seven laurels per week.

Someone who can only play on Saturday, but who can play seven hours on that day, is, “dedicating,” the same number of hours to the game as the guy who plays every day…but gets only one laurel per week. The same amount of time spent playing, one seventh the rewards.

I hate time gating. I hate hate hate it. I made one set of celestial for the ranger cause it can’t do any one thing great anyway. I will not be participating in anything other further time gated content.

Agree, time gating sucks big time!

Dailies is fine with me, that isn’t realy time gating, it is something you get from just playing.

But Celestial (Quartz Crystal) and Ascended Weapons! That realy stinks!

This might be insightful.

http://youtu.be/_duqqVHTGRA?t=21m10s

i agree wholeheartly too.

time gate craftign stuff is just stupid. Its just a very bad thing that leads on,ly into more stupid grind and forcefully slows everybody down into snail speed at the progress of getting the new things.

And for what ? Only so that the hardcore gamers with no live that hang 24/7 at the TP can get the most profit out of the new stuff so that the TP will get some new super extreme valuable things that only a handful of players can even buy at all then …

Even Lindsey did cheat in her own preview video and used dev hacks just so that she didn’t had to waste time, so that she was able at all to preview those new things …

I know, new thigns should never be way too easy to obtain, but this here just gets ridiculous more and more over time and GW2 turns with each thign more and more into a total grind fest.

Time gated content is no good feature, its a pure chicanery to ensure that people need like xx months or longer to obtain something in this game.

ANet this is absolutely the wrong direction !! You can do such time gate stuff with LEGENDARY stuff, because these items are REALLY supposed to be hard to obtain.
But not anything under this quality, because this change is the absolute middle finger to everybody, who plays with multiple characters !!!

arjeidi.2690:

This might be insightful.

http://youtu.be/_duqqVHTGRA?t=21m10s

nothing new for me but its a good video.
most discussions on these forums r pointless because ppl cant see the matrix behind the game. there is a reason for everything. everything new needs to fit some criteria. for a “f2p” game the first point on the list is “needs to generate money”
if u take a look at every single update in the past and scan it by these criteria u will realize whats the reason for this kind of content. its not for satisfying us. its to keep us busy and to creat resons to come back.
the situation with dailys and laurels is a good example how we get forced to log in every day. u get punished for not playing every day. if u r playing 10 hours a week its a big difference if u log in every day for 1 or 2 hours or if u play 10 hours at one day. the gated content punishes u if u dont log in every day.

I hate time gating.

If they want to delay the time it takes to obtain something – do like an egg-hatching mechanic. Where you have to start it as soon as you can, but ultimately still have to wait.

EVE online does this with it’s skill. You start the train and it can take weeks for your things to finish.

If they want to add an element of repeatability – then add an ‘accellerator’ which can be similar to time gating. Log in each day and feed your egg and it will hatch faster. But if not then there shouldn’t be such an annoying thing as black and white time-gating

OP should have time gated his post to one word per day.

For subscription-based games, I understand (but hate) the time-gating philosophy. In Gw2 it doesn’t make sense and it goes against the strengths of the game.

Colin Johanson “A big part of our philosophy is to constantly evaluate how fun the game is”
Time to re-evaluate this boring boring boring, terrifyingly bad game design

Time gating is a way for the devs to limit how fast players acquire things. It can be used arbitrarily or it can be used to minimise the impact of certain types of new content such as stat increases.

Ya time gating is horrible. And gw2 does it for everything! Boring as hell its basically a grind that if you miss you get behind. Lamest kitten ever.

Timegating/sinks are the most shallow attempts of game longevity for the most shallow of player. They’re not interesting nor challenging and it makes me feel like the developer is incredibly desperate for me to play.

If playing an MMO means running into “features” like these all the time, then no thank you!

I play 7 different characters on a regular basis. I got lucky in Fractals with Ring drops and have all Ascended rings on all 7 characters who are all at level 80. I used my Laurels to buy them all Amulets. I have 2 characters with all Ascended jewelry. As you can tell, I play a lot. I know that we don’t technically have to have any of this stuff. I would feel better though if we knew WHAT the ceiling was. Is this the last tier of high end stuff? If there is no ceiling then this is really off putting. ArenaNet games have never been about getting the best stats. There was always a ceiling and that was what was appealing to me. It was always about spending time getting the look you wanted if you wanted to go that route but you were never time gated in a serious manner for the top statted gear. Now all of a sudden we are.
I think ArenaNet would have been better suited introducing the new weapon sets first and the new utility skills. Why keep increasing stats without adding permanent content that challenged us with those new stats in mind? It makes no sense.
I am not gonna say anything caustic or demeaning because that is just gross, but I would like to express my total and utter disappointment in the decision makers at ArenaNet for this decision. You could have at least given us new permanent content in the form of an expansion to soften the blow. Now we just have an arbitrarily implemented time gate for gear if we want BiS items with no reason for it whatsoever.
Have you guys forgotten how GW1 was? We didn’t play all of those campaigns because you offered progression. We played because they were fun. These two week updates are fun, but an arbitrary gear treadmill for no reason is less fun than a gear grind when you know at the end of it you get to do raids or whatever and I can’t stand that in games, so how do you think I feel about it when it has no purpose?
It takes 2 weeks to make 1 weapon. Remember the part where I said I play 7 characters regularly? I use multiple weapons on those characters excluding my Elementalist and Engineer that only use 1 weapon each. My warrior will take 8 weeks to gear up for ONLY her preferred weapons. I don’t know how else to put it, so I will be blunt: It’s asinine. I have dropped literally thousands of hours over 8 years playing your games and almost as much money.
If you don’t do anything regading changing the system, at least have the common decency to tell us where the ceiling is so we can plan accordingly. If there is no ceiling then I will go to a game that has one. I like playing for fun and things I like cosmetically. Put me on a multiple month treadmill for no reason and I will simply step off and walk away with a heavy heart. I don’t really know how to fully express my deep disappointment in the arbitrary time gating of these items.

F—K time gating.

It makes people login every day so the managers can tell their managers, oh look at these nice figures of users that have logged on last week. Nothing more.

Jordy.1570:

arjeidi.2690:

This might be insightful.

http://youtu.be/_duqqVHTGRA?t=21m10s

nothing new for me but its a good video.
most discussions on these forums r pointless because ppl cant see the matrix behind the game. there is a reason for everything. everything new needs to fit some criteria. for a “f2p” game the first point on the list is “needs to generate money”
if u take a look at every single update in the past and scan it by these criteria u will realize whats the reason for this kind of content. its not for satisfying us. its to keep us busy and to creat resons to come back.
the situation with dailys and laurels is a good example how we get forced to log in every day. u get punished for not playing every day. if u r playing 10 hours a week its a big difference if u log in every day for 1 or 2 hours or if u play 10 hours at one day. the gated content punishes u if u dont log in every day.

Im curious, how do you get punished for not logging in everyday? I understand that we might not be rewarded with daily reward if we dont log in every day, but im honestly curious what punishment is for not logging in daily. Because, i havent logged in every day and havent been punished by anyone, am i bugged?

Time gating is money making. I’m sorry did you think they cared about us? Sure they’ll lose some, most will just vent here on the forums. Some will eat it up and love it.

It’s among the list of things that shouldn’t be in an MMO, yet somehow seems to creep into every last one of them.

Even the ones that claim to do things differently…

I always thought the purpose of time gating was to keep everyone on a relatively same level gear-wise, so that people with 500 gold can’t just outright buy a full set of ascended gear and have a distinct advantage over everyone.

Yeah it’s pretty inconvenient…but what fun are you going to miss out on for not having a few slightly larger stats?

I believe the reason why they time-gated it is because with the exception of the ascended weapons themselves, EVERYTHING ELSE NEW CAN BE SOLD ON THE TP FOR LARGE QUANTITIES OF CASH. They most likely want to avoid the prices of everything being super super high and certain players making a killing to the point where the rich are super rich and the people buying the stuff become super poor. Plus it would stimulate the prices on the lower level crafting things necessary to make these said T7 mats.

Everyone knows Anet doesn’t make “grindy games”, just ask Anet, or watch their pre-release video. You know, the one that also states they won’t have a gear tread mill in GW2….yeah….that video.

GOSU.9574:

Everyone knows Anet doesn’t make “grindy games”, just ask Anet, or watch their pre-release video. You know, the one that also states they won’t have a gear tread mill in GW2….yeah….that video.

Strange, I watched every Guild Wars 2 video and never saw one that said we won’t have a gear treadmill.

I wont be doing any crafting for ascended weapons but I agree time gating things are not fun and worse is time gating things which are account bound.

Agreed, this kind of time-gating is obnoxious.

Time gating is just absolutely bloody disgusting. I play this game constantly – the caveat being that I am literally only able to play on weekends due to work. What do I get for being a loyal player? It’ll take me more than months to completely gear up my warrior main with ascended weapons.

And before someone tells me “b-but it’s optional!” no Jesus Christ I want to actually play the game and getting these items IS “playing the game”.

And this is completely ignoring how AWFUL the time gating experience is. Despite knowing full well that I should, I haven’t done a single quartz related daily since the very first day because I hate having to specifically take the time to go completely out of my way to do this crap. IT IS NOT FUN, I have no idea what makes anyone at anet think this is fun, your login numbers might be high now because everyone feels obligated to do their dailies but they most certainly do not find it engaging or fun and they’ll only burn out exponentially faster as they get increasingly sick of this terrible time gating nonsense.

+1
Not spending anymore money on the g-store till time gating is removed.

I’m not sure how I feel about time-gating in general, but…

http://dulfy.net/2013/08/30/gw2-account-magic-find-ascended-crafting-and-legendary-weapons-revamp-preview

For ascended weapons, it seems like the biggest gating factor is getting 500 each of bloodstone/dragonite/empyreal mats to refine for the vision crystal.

The deldrimor ingots and spiritwood planks (time-gated refined materials) are tradeable, so just go buy them if you don’t feel like waiting.

Even worse the charged quartz is account bound and the weapons produced are also account bound. If you play on several accounts this requires you to craft your needs on each account. Why do I have to repeat craft leveling just because I have more than 1 account? Why more than 1? Because I have friends on both sides of the Atlantic and don’t want to pay the transfer fees every few hours!

There are also people out there with no interest at all in crafting. They might want to buy the weapons produced but can’t.

Agree on this one, and I don’t really get it either. Why has Anet made the Celestial gear so time consuming to get?

I invested in it because of two things.

First and foremost because it seemed to be the best MF gear out there, but now they might just take away MF from the gear. Nothing has been said.

Secondly because of versatility, since you have an overall same amount points on all stats, it is easy to change to new builds without changing to new gear.

But as many has said, it is from far the best gear out there. And it really does not make much sense of making it so time consuming and/or expensive to craft Celestial. If you are out of crystals, it might take over a month for just one piece, if you have crystals, a minimum of 5 days. It’s is just stupid, and I don’t understand why they have made it like this.

I agree time gating is not fun. However neither is instant reward. I hit 500 crafting and now I have BiS everything. Gee that was fun…

I also do not agree with using bots, or having the game do things for you while you aren’t online. The point is to log in and do stuff. I understand this time gated crafting might be boring stuff to do but if you have the mats will it take that long? I don’t think so personally. I make a quartz everyday along with dailies and it takes me 10sec or so.

Grated it isn’t fun but it doesn’t annoy me to do it either.

Peets.8529:

I think it is a good idea to reward players who play more.
If it is done automatically then those who play once a month have the same thing as someone who is dedicated to play each day.
So I don’t agree with you.

Why should someone playing an hour a day for ten days get a leg up on someone who plays ten hours over the course of a weekend?

But that’s beside the point. Players, dedicated or not, should want to log in because the game is FUN, not because they’re falling behind in their menial chores.

If this is in reference to Ascended weapons – if you have the gold, you can have a weapon as soon as you hit 500 crafting – all the “time gated” components are tradeable (you can buy them on the TP if players are willing to sell their CD’s.) The account bound ascended materials are combined with other items to make tradeable components. The final product (weapon) is Account bound.

x7 weeklies would’ve been a much better compromise.

Rift does it, can just knock out 7 in a row and be fine for a week.

Knote.2904:

x7 weeklies would’ve been a much better compromise.

Rift does it, can just knock out 7 in a row and be fine for a week.

Seems reasonable enough if time-gating is needed (as it occasionally is). But with regards to ascended weapons, which are account bound when crafted, I don’t see the point in time gating other than to string the carrot-chasers along.

It is once you have every thing and there nothing left for you to do.

The current monthly is a great example of this ppl are doing it with in 1hr of it being put out. Now we have ppl who want the next monthly already not because of greed because it was something fun for them to work on a kind of bounty hunt.

arjeidi.2690:

This might be insightful.

http://youtu.be/_duqqVHTGRA?t=21m10s

Actually it seems ANet has hired last guy, he starts at 32:00, its pretty much how GW2 has “evolved”

completely agree, whatever happened to “we don’t like to make it a grind” ? well getting to yet another max of crafting is not only an insult to the people who already spent time getting to max it’s and insult to the rest of the community that believed in you.

Having given this some more thought whilst waiting for the trading post to be repaired i have inevitably reached the same conclusion. Even given the widest possible definitions of the word FUN this does not fall into any of them, however it does fit nicely into the terms STUPID and BORING

tigirius.9014:

completely agree, whatever happened to “we don’t like to make it a grind” ? well getting to yet another max of crafting is not only an insult to the people who already spent time getting to max it’s and insult to the rest of the community that believed in you.

400 is the cap atm the are pushing it to 500 and now there a reason to be a craftier other then to level up alts.

Hehe you changed it at the last min.

Jski.6180:

tigirius.9014:

completely agree, whatever happened to “we don’t like to make it a grind” ? well getting to yet another max of crafting is not only an insult to the people who already spent time getting to max it’s and insult to the rest of the community that believed in you.

400 is the cap atm the are pushing it to 500 and now there a reason to be a craftier other then to level up alts.

you mean besides the fact of already being at max and making your own gear?

let’s clarify so now you think that crafting was not necessary or great the way it was when you make the exotic gear you need, previously the max gear anyone could get, or be able to make all of the enchantments that go with it because they added a new tier which was completely unnecessary and instead of actually making the appropriate changes to the T6 mats to make them account bound and available from nodes and activities already in game like other games have done, they’ve made a whole new tier of T7 mats to make people have to grind even more (because there wasn’t enough grind in the game already) to get to a new max, and that fixed it somehow?

Did I cover everything?

Vayne.8563:

GOSU.9574:

Everyone knows Anet doesn’t make “grindy games”, just ask Anet, or watch their pre-release video. You know, the one that also states they won’t have a gear tread mill in GW2….yeah….that video.

Strange, I watched every Guild Wars 2 video and never saw one that said we won’t have a gear treadmill.

Like many companies, ANet uses vague terminology that can be interpreted multiple ways. Naturally, people make the interpretation that coincides with what they want to see.

Who could have known that when Colin Johanson wrote:

“When your game systems are designed to achieve the prime motivation of a subscription-based MMO, you run the risk of sacrificing quality to get as much content in as possible to fill that time. You get leveling systems that take insane amounts of grind to gain a level, loot drop systems that require doing a dungeon with a tiny chance the item you want can drop at the end, raid systems that need huge numbers of people online simultaneously to organize and play, thousands of wash/repeat item-collection or kill-mob quests or dailies with flavor text support, the best stat gear requiring crazy amounts of time to earn, etc.

But what if your business model isn’t based on a subscription? What if your content-design motivations aren’t driven by the need to create mechanics that keep people playing as long as possible? When looking at content design for Guild Wars 2, we’ve tried to ask the question: What if the development of the game was based on…wait for it…fun?"

…that a subset of the players would convince GW2 to abandon this philosophy — with the exceptions of leveling speed, and that the loot drop systems with crazy low chance RNG are not in dungeons — within a year of launch.

tigirius.9014:

Jski.6180:

tigirius.9014:

completely agree, whatever happened to “we don’t like to make it a grind” ? well getting to yet another max of crafting is not only an insult to the people who already spent time getting to max it’s and insult to the rest of the community that believed in you.

400 is the cap atm the are pushing it to 500 and now there a reason to be a craftier other then to level up alts.

you mean besides the fact of already being at max and making your own gear?

let’s clarify so now you think that crafting was not necessary to make the exotic gear, previously the max gear anyone could get, or be able to make all of the enchantments that go with it because they added a new tier which was completely unnecessary and instead of actually making the appropriate changes to the T6 mats to make them account bound and available from nodes and activities already in game like other games have done, they’ve made a whole new tier of T7 mats to make people have to grind even more (because there wasn’t enough grind in the game already) to get to a new max?

Did I cover everything?

You do not need crafting to get the “max” gear even after the update it just a chose that a player can make. But up to this point craftier had no reason to level up crafting other then for the free exp to level up.