Guild Wars 2

Time to feed the forum bug…

Here ya go, litttle guy.

(nomnomnomnom)

Quaggan Bits are his favorite.

It’s not just about Dungeons. WvW and sPvP is suffering too. Where are the new game modes of sPvP? EoTM was supposed to be made for testing future WvW content, alost 12 months later still completely nothing.
Where are the background projects promised by Colin in 2013? Canceled?
Exactly what’s going on at Arena Net? Just last year we were told that only small portion of Arena Net is actually working on Living Wolrd and by-weekly updates – what are the rest of people doing? Researching Gem Store?

Your 3 questions are the sort of things people are asking for and have been for nearly the life of the game – that is the roadmap of which many speak of. Revealing where the story is not what the community has been asking for these past couple of years – that is a spoiler not a roadmap and you are correct in that assumption

People are invested in the game as you say and want to know more about what is being worked upon. Right now, that information is pretty much zero apart from guesses gleamed from the CDI’s etc.

This is the only MMO I have played that has no visible roadmap and I find it a little sad that information isn’t provided to us without our constant nagging.

example: Engineer backpack issue. 2 years of constant threads aside, we finally got an answer from someone at Anet (was it youy?) about the situation and how it is being discussed internally and the challenges involved. More of this on the issues that are raised weekly would;

- please the community
- clean up the forums
- reinforce the link between dev/community (which is improving thanks to recent efforts from you and your team)

p.s Harry Potter was an awful series. GW1/2 is not

Gaile Gray.6029:

Ok, I’m back. About Harry Potter…

I think that the whole basis for the presentation in this and other threads about communication has a few pillars. And it’s one of them that I’m thinking about. J. K. Rawlings wrote a series of well-loved books, and I am sure (although I didn’t follow it) that people gave feedback to her on every release, heck, probably every nuance of every release, and that they also provided suggestions for future books. It’s a natural thing: People were highly invested in the series, loved it a bunch, and wanted to know more, or to have input.

In that small sense — and yes, that’s only part of the communication question — I don’t think I’d want our team to communicate about the game’s direction. Like, “Yes, so in the future, all frogs will become sentient, treble in size, and take over Lion’s Arch, leading to the elimination of all non-amphibian races. Yep, yep, that’s where we’re heading with the story.” NOTE: This is NOT where the story is going. This is only a wildly-improbable scenario offered for purposes of… umm… providing a wildly-improbable scenario.

My question: Do you agree that it’s good to not share that sort of information, information related to the actual direction of the game saga as a whole?

If so, then my sense is that you want to know more about the nuts and bolts.

• “Are you looking at XXX new feature?”
• “Do you intend to improve ABC functionality?”
• “Is ### working as intended, or is it bugged, or will you incorporate player feedback to change it?”

Again, this is a small part of the discussion, but I wanted to make sure I was looking at that part accurately. I wondered if generally, no one is asking about the whole “Tell us where the story is going” bit.

I wouldn’t want to know where the story is going, or want to have any impact on that creative medium.

But feel free to share plans for future nuts & bolts all you want

Well I certainly don’t want to know the story in advance. Hints of a pending situation, sure — that’s called a teaser! — but not how it will be resolved.

Yet it certainly would invigorate interest to be told “The main things on the table right now are raids, hopefully but not definitely within a (month/half a year/a year), a new race, a new profession, a dungeon revamp, expanded fractals, world boss tweaks, major QoL tweak X, etc etc etc.” Then people can speculate about the specifics.

It’s sort of like Christmas. I want to know which family member is hosting and a general idea of what my nieces want gift wise; I want to know we are having it (missed it one year due to the inlaws traveling to their inlaws in another country), but I really don’t want to know what presents I’m getting until after I pull off the wrapper. Or, more accurately from my perspective, what presents everyone else is getting since I usually get more glee watching other faces light up than getting things myself.

So yes, please, tell us about big gameplay changes coming, and give us the areas they’ll affect. Tell us big stories are coming, but not the surprises those stories hold. There’s a substantial difference between story spoilers and game mechanic heads ups.

Quite frankly I believe people are getting tired of talking about same problems month after month for nearly more than two years, both on official and unofficial player made threads, getting tired of not seeing any fixes being implemented even after players have given countless of good constructive well thought out solutions, getting tired of waiting and seeing how some game modes get neglected and being at low priority compared to Living Story.
Enough will the talking, where are the fruition?

As for example WvW PPT system. I find it extremely difficult to believe that no one at Arena Net has come with a solution up to this day of how to fix it, even after hundreds of threads and countless of excellent suggestions for over two years.

Gaile Gray.6029:

-snip-

My question: Do you agree that it’s good to not share that sort of information, information related to the actual direction of the game saga as a whole?

Absolutely. Spoilers/lore, and to some extent, specific details don’t need to go into it. For example:

“We’re working on a new map with a large scale, multiphase, dynamic event requiring a higher degree of teamwork and coordination, because folks have complained about older content being ‘too zergy’.”

This would have been a great way to bring up the Silverwastes without revealing anything detailed. Yet, it tells us that we’ll be getting new content, what sort of content it is, and even communicates how our feedback has made it to the designers.

Announcing something like this when the zone begins production wouldn’t harm anything. Bringing up details about the mechanics of the new event for feedback/discussion would be a nice extra. (Just to be clear, by discussion, I don’t just mean listening).

I’ll mention (because if I don’t, others will…) that ideally, less open-world PvE and more PvP/WvW/dungeon content would be better, too, e.g.

• “A new map is coming, … and it will have a new 4 path dungeon.”
• “The Living Story in the Silverwastes will advance, and we’re introducing 2 new Magumma-inspired PvP maps, and a new PvP mode!”
• “Something similar for WvW, maybe some new seige and events!!!”

If so, then my sense is that you want to know more about the nuts and bolts.

• “Are you looking at XXX new feature?”
• “Do you intend to improve ABC functionality?”
• “Is ### working as intended, or is it bugged, or will you incorporate player feedback to change it?”

Again, this is a small part of the discussion, but I wanted to make sure I was looking at that part accurately. I wondered if generally, no one is asking about the whole “Tell us where the story is going” bit.

You got it. The story doesn’t need to be revealed to keep us excited about upcoming content.

Another part of the discussion is that if things are going to be delayed or not updated for a while, let us know when we ask. The silence comes off as manipulative and dishonest, especially when areas of the game continue to be neglected despite player interest.

Edit: Typo.

Well I typed something out, didn’t really come out right so I was about to start over… but dlonie hit it right on the head, so I’ll just say “Seconded!”

Jerus.4350:

Well I typed something out, didn’t really come out right so I was about to start over… but dlonie hit it right on the head, so I’ll just say “Seconded!”

+1

Had a lengthy post only to scrap it. dlonie has what I want down to a “T”.

I not only expect a statement on the next step, but also (and especially) a statement on the pre-launch announcements.

Is Mina’s Target Shooting still planned ?
Is it canceled ?

Gaile Gray.6029:

If so, then my sense is that you want to know more about the nuts and bolts.

• “Are you looking at XXX new feature?”
• “Do you intend to improve ABC functionality?”
• “Is ### working as intended, or is it bugged, or will you incorporate player feedback to change it?”

Again, this is a small part of the discussion, but I wanted to make sure I was looking at that part accurately. I wondered if generally, no one is asking about the whole “Tell us where the story is going” bit.

Nail right on the quaggans head Gail. This is what people want to know, and how we had this before, but things went silent. I’m talking about the state of the game with mention of precursor crafting, etc. I feel that because of the blow back from when that was announced, to never happening and the silent treatment, irked many players. Instead of going silent, a simple “hey guys, I did say this was all scheduled to change at any time. And ATM our methods aren’t working, so it’s undetermined when this will come out.” I feel that would’ve been better than going silent, as it was mentioned that time frames can change.

But the whole secrecy of features isn’t just from that, look at the commander issue that happened. I think an earlier mention of it before a few days release would’ve been better to change it rather than bring someone in on their day off (no idea why thinking people would want to pay 100g for a color was a good idea).

But thats what we want to hear. Earlier info on upcoming features to get excited about and give feedback too. In all honesty, I think that’s why the CDIs are so popular, because we are discussing cool features already, though not implemented.

Now when I say that, I don’t mean “we are announcing we are working on feature x!” And don’t mention anything after that, like what it does or how it works. Give us some samples or examples. Then keep us updated. “Or first method isn’t working, so we are trying this way now, but may delay implementation.”

But please just remember, don’t go silent if something does work. Admit there are some problems and its bring delayed so people know. Being silent is just allowing “broken promises”.

Edit: crap, I wrote this out and dloni basically said it as I was typing! Darn long phone posts!

I am the Lorax. I speak for the trees.

(inb4 Tree posts, saying I don’t speak for him… )

Serophous.9085:

crap, I wrote this out and dloni basically said it as I was typing! Darn long phone posts!

Hey, it never hurts to hear more expressions of support. ArenaNet does seem to be starting to “wake up” to the customer/company disconnect, so more voices will hopefully get more attention. Thanks for sharing your thoughts :-)

As for some of the other posts…like I said, the “silent treatment” only breeds frustration and deepens the disconnect between us and the dev team. It just comes across as “we don’t care; We Develop How We Want.”

I’m pretty sure that most people are interested in things like: Will there be new dungeons? Will there be new races, professions, skills, weapons? Will there be raids? Will there be a myriad of features too numerous for me to list? Not, where is the story going?

Skady.5916:

All I see is attempts to distract us from a real subject with a smooth talk.

I promise I will not let that happen in this thread I’ve been trying to get this point across for months, this thread will not be derailed under my watch >.>

Very disappointing. Not all of us are that stupid.

Well, I did already admit that I’m stupid earlier today

Maybe I’ll feel a little smarter if this thread makes any difference at all :P

I feel all dressed up and nowhere to go.
Levelled six level 80’s, got all the chars homed and ready for action, dressed them up so they all look fantastic, each with the highest weaponry stats and greatest armour.
All ready for the guild wars, except no guild wars not even any wars.
Just rumors of a dragon that may appear at some point.

I feel that that I was levelling and getting trained for a epic event that never quite arrived.

dlonie.6547:

Gaile Gray.6029:

-snip-

My question: Do you agree that it’s good to not share that sort of information, information related to the actual direction of the game saga as a whole?

Absolutely. Spoilers/lore, and to some extent, specific details don’t need to go into it. For example:

“We’re working on a new map with a large scale, multiphase, dynamic event requiring a higher degree of teamwork and coordination, because folks have complained about older content being ‘too zergy’.”

This would have been a great way to bring up the Shiverwastes without revealing anything detailed. Yet, it tells us that we’ll be getting new content, what sort of content it is, and even communicates how our feedback has made it to the designers.

Announcing something like this when the zone begins production wouldn’t harm anything. Bringing up details about the mechanics of the new event for feedback/discussion would be a nice extra. (Just to be clear, by discussion, I don’t just mean listening).

I’ll mention (because if I don’t, others will…) that ideally, less open-world PvE and more PvP/WvW/dungeon content would be better, too, e.g.

• “A new map is coming, … and it will have a new 4 path dungeon.”
• “The Living Story in the Shiverwastes will advance, and we’re introducing 2 new Magumma-inspired PvP maps, and a new PvP mode!”
• “Something similar for WvW, maybe some new seige and events!!!”

If so, then my sense is that you want to know more about the nuts and bolts.

• “Are you looking at XXX new feature?”
• “Do you intend to improve ABC functionality?”
• “Is ### working as intended, or is it bugged, or will you incorporate player feedback to change it?”

Again, this is a small part of the discussion, but I wanted to make sure I was looking at that part accurately. I wondered if generally, no one is asking about the whole “Tell us where the story is going” bit.

You got it. The story doesn’t need to be revealed to keep us excited about upcoming content.

Another part of the discussion is that if things are going to be delayed or not updated for a while, let us know when we ask. The silence comes off as manipulative and dishonest, especially when areas of the game continue to be neglected despite player interest.

No they don’t need reveal any feature to us, players.
Why?
’cause they could have some problem while they develop the feature.

You said “We’re working on a new map with a large scale, multiphase, dynamic event requiring a higher degree of teamwork and coordination, because folks have complained about older content being ‘too zergy’.”

Ok, what if they have several problems to develop the map and they need abandon the project?
We player will start complain the new map doen’t show up.

We complain precursor crafting, but we know they will release the feature.
We complain housing, but we know they will release the feature.
We complain SAB but we know they will release new path.
We complain new PVP maps and modes but we know they wll release something.
We complaing expansion but in NCSoft Earnings Report 3Q14 unofficially annunce expansion packs.

So, we don’t need know anything about their work in progress, we must wait release.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Ok, I’m back. About Harry Potter…

I think that the whole basis for the presentation in this and other threads about communication has a few pillars. And it’s one of them that I’m thinking about. J. K. Rawlings wrote a series of well-loved books, and I am sure (although I didn’t follow it) that people gave feedback to her on every release, heck, probably every nuance of every release, and that they also provided suggestions for future books. It’s a natural thing: People were highly invested in the series, loved it a bunch, and wanted to know more, or to have input.

In that small sense — and yes, that’s only part of the communication question — I don’t think I’d want our team to communicate about the game’s direction. Like, “Yes, so in the future, all frogs will become sentient, treble in size, and take over Lion’s Arch, leading to the elimination of all non-amphibian races. Yep, yep, that’s where we’re heading with the story.” NOTE: This is NOT where the story is going. This is only a wildly-improbable scenario offered for purposes of… umm… providing a wildly-improbable scenario.

My question: Do you agree that it’s good to not share that sort of information, information related to the actual direction of the game saga as a whole?

If so, then my sense is that you want to know more about the nuts and bolts.

• “Are you looking at XXX new feature?”
• “Do you intend to improve ABC functionality?”
• “Is ### working as intended, or is it bugged, or will you incorporate player feedback to change it?”

Again, this is a small part of the discussion, but I wanted to make sure I was looking at that part accurately. I wondered if generally, no one is asking about the whole “Tell us where the story is going” bit.

There is a huge difference between story narrative and game design in regards to communication.

Most of what players seek isn’t the direction of the narrative, but the direction of the game design. What type of content can we expect? Will we be getting more legendaries? Home instance customization? Guild halls? Types of progression? New weapons? And so on…

Unlike narrative which you can’t share the direction you wish to take without ruining it for everyone, you can share a wealth of information about the direction you wish to take with the game design without ruining it for anyone.

If anything, giving information on where the game is headed helps out. This is why i don’t get why you adopted a policy of no communication. Many important questions and concerns players have about the game just aren’t being answered and it gives players a dreadful outlook on the games future.

nihavel.6592:

No they don’t need reveal any feature to us, players.
Why?
’cause they could have some problem while they develop the feature.

There is a gap between the concept and the end of the dev.
I hope the living story (S2, ofc) is now done and need just some adjustement / bugfix.
I hope they know what they will release until february.

I have to admit, I kind of feel sorry for Gaile. She’s in the unenviable position of being stuck between the immovable rock of silence and the unstoppable rage of the forums. Every time there’s an issue she’s the one that gets to “take one for the team” and she doesn’t really get many thanks for doing what she can.

So thank you Gaile for doing what you can.

Back to the OP:

I think a more clearly defined direction needs to be stated for everything. Anet’s words and actions have been contradictory for some time now and it’s only making things worse. I know things change in development and cause a shift in direction or priorities and I’ve got no problem with that. I just wish things got communicated and once they settle on a direction then they actually be consistent with that direction or if they change direction, then tell us.

For example:
Engineer Hobosacks are a direct contradiction to Anets stated end game content of horizontal progression(skins). Most of the LS rewards are new backpacks and engineers are effectively locked out because Anet won’t move up the fix on their priority list.

Rangers have been receiving mixed signals about what their class is supposed to be adept at. Skills and traits don’t seem to support the stated goals of being masters of long range combat.

The wallet and currencies….oy vey, this one’s been talked to death in several threads and Anet won’t respond. Every currency is a direct contradiction to the purpose of the wallet and even Anet’s special cases rules aren’t consistent.

Horizontal progression and armor skins…it’s been months since we had an actual armor skin. People would like to know if we’re going to get more any time soon. Doing horizontal progession through just outfits is just hindering yourselves.

Anet stated back in LS1 that we’d be getting more skills…are we? Did you decide not to? I don’t care either way, I’d just like to know if it’s still going to happen or not.

Back in April Anet stated we’d get an expansion worth of content in the LS. It’s been 7 months now and I’d say we have less than 1/4th the content I’d expect from an expansion. But that’s with my definition of an expansion, what is Anet’s definition of expansion? What’s a reasonable time frame for that content? 1 year? 2 years?

These are just what I pulled off the top of my head. All of these things can be helped with more communication. It doesn’t even have to be a great amount of depth or talking about what’s actively in development. It’s just a status update on persistent issues.

Gaile Gray.6029:

dlonie.6547:

I still feel bad for Gaile. It feels like after the communication blow-up, they just shoved her outside of the ArenaNet fortress of silence, bound and gagged, and told her to do a little dance to keep us entertained. As much as I’d like to see the things she’s said in that thread come true, it’s not up to her to make them happen. :-(

<3 Gaile, even though I’ve been a kitty to you sometimes!

Hey, dlonie — <3 you too!

And that is not what happened, with me getting this job. I’m not bound and gagged and told “don’t dare talk to them!” On the contrary, I’m here to do whatever I can to increase our talking to you! That’s the objective for my whole team.

Quite honestly, this is my best, most favorite, most beloved of all opportunities, and I’m thrilled to be here. Extra thrilled to be able to give some tasty information, like this about Engineers or this about copyrights, or this about the Gem Conversion Tool and any variety of other significant topics that you care about. Ok, fine, happy, too, to talk with players about favorite game moments, attainments, welcomes, and squirrels, too.

I have a thought, but I have a meeting. I want to ask a question so I’ll come back to this in a while. Remind me: It has to do with Harry Potter.

If you weren’t before (you were) you are now my hero (still) Gaile.

And I was just marveling at how few people were arguing with this. After all, it is the internet!

nihavel.6592:

No they don’t need reveal any feature to us, players.
Why?
’cause they could have some problem while they develop the feature.

You said “We’re working on a new map with a large scale, multiphase, dynamic event requiring a higher degree of teamwork and coordination, because folks have complained about older content being ‘too zergy’.”

Ok, what if they have several problems to develop the map and they need abandon the project?
We player will start complain the new map doen’t show up.

Not if they kept us in the loop. Sure, some people would complain and rage, that’s unavoidable in an MMO community, sure. But the vast majority of us with any degree of life experience understand that “kitten happens,” and would appreciate the info.

For example:

Dude With Red Tag

We started working on the new map, but encountered some difficulties with the new AI. It turns out that some of the new mechanics were exploitable and easily trivialized. D’oh! >.<

We’ve got some ideas to fix this up, but it’s going to set us back about 3 weeks (conservative estimate). We’ll keep you posted as things develop.

Now, sure — some people would rage. “OMG, newbs can’t even develop AI.” “Srsly, ANet? You can’t do anything right!” “Heh, yeah, like the old mobs aren’t trivial anyway.” “I HATE ZERKERS AND STACKING AND I POST IN UNRELATED THREADS!!”

All of the above will happen. But really, is it worse than now? People are leaving, raging, frustrated, and suspicious of ArenaNet because of the silence. Not everyone is, but it’s commonplace. At least in my scenario, trust between the client and the company is strengthened, rather than weakened.

We complain precursor crafting, but we know they will release the feature.
We complain housing, but we know they will release the feature.
We complain SAB but we know they will release new path.
We complain new PVP maps and modes but we know they wll release something.

Yep, people complain. But staying silent just adds frustration and distrust into the mix.

BTW:

We complaing expansion but in NCSoft Earnings Report 3Q14 unofficially annunce expansion packs.

Expansions have been mentioned in a lot of NCSoft earnings reports over the last two years. Get excited, hope, speculate, but for your own sake, don’t take that as a promise of an expansion on the way. I hope it happens, too.

Didn’t anet claim at one point that they were going to rework all the dungeons ala AC?

Gaile Gray.6029:

Ok, I’m back. About Harry Potter…

I think that the whole basis for the presentation in this and other threads about communication has a few pillars. And it’s one of them that I’m thinking about. J. K. Rawlings wrote a series of well-loved books, and I am sure (although I didn’t follow it) that people gave feedback to her on every release, heck, probably every nuance of every release, and that they also provided suggestions for future books. It’s a natural thing: People were highly invested in the series, loved it a bunch, and wanted to know more, or to have input.

In that small sense — and yes, that’s only part of the communication question — I don’t think I’d want our team to communicate about the game’s direction. Like, “Yes, so in the future, all frogs will become sentient, treble in size, and take over Lion’s Arch, leading to the elimination of all non-amphibian races. Yep, yep, that’s where we’re heading with the story.” NOTE: This is NOT where the story is going. This is only a wildly-improbable scenario offered for purposes of… umm… providing a wildly-improbable scenario.

My question: Do you agree that it’s good to not share that sort of information, information related to the actual direction of the game saga as a whole?

If so, then my sense is that you want to know more about the nuts and bolts.

• “Are you looking at XXX new feature?”
• “Do you intend to improve ABC functionality?”
• “Is ### working as intended, or is it bugged, or will you incorporate player feedback to change it?”

Again, this is a small part of the discussion, but I wanted to make sure I was looking at that part accurately. I wondered if generally, no one is asking about the whole “Tell us where the story is going” bit.

its not so much just nuts and bolts, as much as overarching designs.

I dont need to know Jim is going to get sword after travelling to cantha via airship.

But i might want to know, gw2 is planning to open access to a new continent.

we re looking at developing new classes.

We are going to be focusing on making newer, more interesting dynamic events, and systems that track them.

We feel like we should add at least 2 dungeons a year.

We are working on an expansion.

etc.

nuts and bolts are often small things, like changing the UI for traits.

nihavel.6592:

dlonie.6547:

Gaile Gray.6029:

-snip-

My question: Do you agree that it’s good to not share that sort of information, information related to the actual direction of the game saga as a whole?

Absolutely. Spoilers/lore, and to some extent, specific details don’t need to go into it. For example:

“We’re working on a new map with a large scale, multiphase, dynamic event requiring a higher degree of teamwork and coordination, because folks have complained about older content being ‘too zergy’.”

This would have been a great way to bring up the Shiverwastes without revealing anything detailed. Yet, it tells us that we’ll be getting new content, what sort of content it is, and even communicates how our feedback has made it to the designers.

Announcing something like this when the zone begins production wouldn’t harm anything. Bringing up details about the mechanics of the new event for feedback/discussion would be a nice extra. (Just to be clear, by discussion, I don’t just mean listening).

I’ll mention (because if I don’t, others will…) that ideally, less open-world PvE and more PvP/WvW/dungeon content would be better, too, e.g.

• “A new map is coming, … and it will have a new 4 path dungeon.”
• “The Living Story in the Shiverwastes will advance, and we’re introducing 2 new Magumma-inspired PvP maps, and a new PvP mode!”
• “Something similar for WvW, maybe some new seige and events!!!”

If so, then my sense is that you want to know more about the nuts and bolts.

• “Are you looking at XXX new feature?”
• “Do you intend to improve ABC functionality?”
• “Is ### working as intended, or is it bugged, or will you incorporate player feedback to change it?”

Again, this is a small part of the discussion, but I wanted to make sure I was looking at that part accurately. I wondered if generally, no one is asking about the whole “Tell us where the story is going” bit.

You got it. The story doesn’t need to be revealed to keep us excited about upcoming content.

Another part of the discussion is that if things are going to be delayed or not updated for a while, let us know when we ask. The silence comes off as manipulative and dishonest, especially when areas of the game continue to be neglected despite player interest.

No they don’t need reveal any feature to us, players.
Why?
’cause they could have some problem while they develop the feature.

You said “We’re working on a new map with a large scale, multiphase, dynamic event requiring a higher degree of teamwork and coordination, because folks have complained about older content being ‘too zergy’.”

Ok, what if they have several problems to develop the map and they need abandon the project?
We player will start complain the new map doen’t show up.

We complain precursor crafting, but we know they will release the feature.
We complain housing, but we know they will release the feature.
We complain SAB but we know they will release new path.
We complain new PVP maps and modes but we know they wll release something.
We complaing expansion but in NCSoft Earnings Report 3Q14 unofficially annunce expansion packs.

So, we don’t need know anything about their work in progress, we must wait release.

the problem is, we dont really know that. many people have assumed, as you did, that they are working on something, and they have been wrong.

They have revealed, they have not in fact been working on new dungeon paths, and at the time of that interview had no current plans to do so.
They revealed they had in fact not been working on SAB and had no plans to do so. After a massive amount of fan response, they amended that to, we will work on it in the future.

Housing was also, a maybe one day thing, and the fact they did a cdi, means they are forming a proposal on it, it doesnt mean it will happen.

and thats what this thread is really about.

What does anet know they want to do for the game. What type of content, and future should players expect. Essentially, what are the goals and main idea for game development going forward?

Torsailr.8456:

So thank you Gaile for doing what you can.

As long as this discussion continues in a meaningful way and we either:

(a) hear that ArenaNet management is willing to change their policy, and start giving us a reason to look forward to the game’s future, or
(b) receive an official explanation of why they’d rather chose to continue withholding hope from us and keep their community disgruntled and in flux

I’ll consider it a success. (Did I word that leadingly enough? innocent face)

I really, really appreciate Gaile being the middleman in this. I know she says she loves it, but man, it’s gotta be hard to deal with somedays.

Back to the OP:

I think a more clearly defined direction needs to be stated for everything. Anet’s words and actions have been contradictory for some time now and it’s only making things worse. I know things change in development and cause a shift in direction or priorities and I’ve got no problem with that. I just wish things got communicated and once they settle on a direction then they actually be consistent with that direction or if they change direction, then tell us.

Thanks for chiming in, this is very relevant to the topic of this thread. Knowing what that cool things are in the works and having something to look forward to would improve player morale significantly.

For example:

-snip-

These are just what I pulled off the top of my head. All of these things can be helped with more communication. It doesn’t even have to be a great amount of depth or talking about what’s actively in development. It’s just a status update on persistent issues.

I agree, a lot of the issues we have with the game’s direction would be improved by better communication, especially since there’s so much guessing involved on our part that it gets maddening. I’d rather not discuss these specific issues in this thread, as they each already have several other threads, but they’re good examples of the sorts of problems that are largely communication problems experienced by many players.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Ok, I’m back. About Harry Potter…

I think that the whole basis for the presentation in this and other threads about communication has a few pillars. And it’s one of them that I’m thinking about. J. K. Rawlings wrote a series of well-loved books, and I am sure (although I didn’t follow it) that people gave feedback to her on every release, heck, probably every nuance of every release, and that they also provided suggestions for future books. It’s a natural thing: People were highly invested in the series, loved it a bunch, and wanted to know more, or to have input.

In that small sense — and yes, that’s only part of the communication question — I don’t think I’d want our team to communicate about the game’s direction. Like, “Yes, so in the future, all frogs will become sentient, treble in size, and take over Lion’s Arch, leading to the elimination of all non-amphibian races. Yep, yep, that’s where we’re heading with the story.” NOTE: This is NOT where the story is going. This is only a wildly-improbable scenario offered for purposes of… umm… providing a wildly-improbable scenario.

My question: Do you agree that it’s good to not share that sort of information, information related to the actual direction of the game saga as a whole?

If so, then my sense is that you want to know more about the nuts and bolts.

• “Are you looking at XXX new feature?”
• “Do you intend to improve ABC functionality?”
• “Is ### working as intended, or is it bugged, or will you incorporate player feedback to change it?”

Again, this is a small part of the discussion, but I wanted to make sure I was looking at that part accurately. I wondered if generally, no one is asking about the whole “Tell us where the story is going” bit.

Ok I just read this part and now in my eyes you are a double-plus-good hero.

Anyway to further reinforce your point with some other comparisons; I would never want George R.R. Martin, J.R.R. Tolkien (what’s up with all the R.R.s?) or any other author or artist/musician whatever to feel that they needed to elicit direction in their work from their audience. This is in the realm of ‘test audience’ and ‘focus groups’ that is a sure fire recipe for killing any creative direction whatsoever.

With regards to narrative or any other artistic direction please ignore everything said on this forum beyond the most general of feedback. I mean, what would happen if there was a public outcry that Ophelia in Hamlet was impossible to sympathize with and so Shakespeare immediately erased her from the plot fearing the backlash of the vocal minority?

Please just tell us the story you want to tell us. You are all doing a beautiful job over there…just keep it up.

Gaile Gray.6029:

My question: Do you agree that it’s good to not share that sort of information, information related to the actual direction of the game saga as a whole?

No. A million times no. It is 2014. Arenanet run an online multiplayer game with continuing development. It is simply wrong from both player expectations and from a business model to shut your fans completely out of the general direction of what’s to come.

I said general direction. I don’t need spoilers for the specifics that are going to happen in the living story. If Anet wants to hold some system revamps or new releases as surprises, I’m ok with some of it being held close. Some, not all.

Your fans and customers deserve to know that some things are going to be released/improved/fixed.

So you like Harry Potter. Non-interactive fiction isn’t quite the same, but we can draw some parallels. JKR held the specifics of the plot close, and that was a good thing. But because of the structure of the novel, fans knew some things, without any doubt – even without being told or given hints – because Harry Potter was the classic “hero’s journey” plot structure. We knew that the story was going to come to an end, most likely at 7 books (at the very least you knew this by book 3 or 4). You knew that Harry was going to find some way to defeat Voldemort, even if you didn’t know exactly how it was going to happen. You knew that there were going to be various climaxes and character deaths, even if you didn’t know exactly who or what. JKR was a great storyteller because she knew those expectations, lived up to them but without being completely predictable.

Right now, your fans and customers have no reliable expectations at all even in a general sense. We are completely in the dark. The CDIs and other discussions are a start – the tiniest possible start – but they are almost all one way. All we’re doing is giving. We’re not getting anything back on how things might shape up or what the developers are even thinking or considering. And that is why you continue to keep getting thread upon thread of the complete lack of communication from Arenanet.

Thanks, phys. Nailed it in both posts.

Tamasan.6457:

Right now, your fans and customers have no reliable expectations at all even in a general sense. We are completely in the dark. The CDIs and other discussions are a start – the tiniest possible start – but they are almost all one way. All we’re doing is giving. We’re not getting anything back on how things might shape up or what the developers are even thinking or considering. And that is why you continue to keep getting thread upon thread of the complete lack of communication from Arenanet.

QFT.

Wasbunny.6531:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Ok, I’m back. About Harry Potter…

I think that the whole basis for the presentation in this and other threads about communication has a few pillars. And it’s one of them that I’m thinking about. J. K. Rawlings wrote a series of well-loved books, and I am sure (although I didn’t follow it) that people gave feedback to her on every release, heck, probably every nuance of every release, and that they also provided suggestions for future books. It’s a natural thing: People were highly invested in the series, loved it a bunch, and wanted to know more, or to have input.

In that small sense — and yes, that’s only part of the communication question — I don’t think I’d want our team to communicate about the game’s direction. Like, “Yes, so in the future, all frogs will become sentient, treble in size, and take over Lion’s Arch, leading to the elimination of all non-amphibian races. Yep, yep, that’s where we’re heading with the story.” NOTE: This is NOT where the story is going. This is only a wildly-improbable scenario offered for purposes of… umm… providing a wildly-improbable scenario.

My question: Do you agree that it’s good to not share that sort of information, information related to the actual direction of the game saga as a whole?

If so, then my sense is that you want to know more about the nuts and bolts.

• “Are you looking at XXX new feature?”
• “Do you intend to improve ABC functionality?”
• “Is ### working as intended, or is it bugged, or will you incorporate player feedback to change it?”

Again, this is a small part of the discussion, but I wanted to make sure I was looking at that part accurately. I wondered if generally, no one is asking about the whole “Tell us where the story is going” bit.

Ok I just read this part and now in my eyes you are a double-plus-good hero.

Anyway to further reinforce your point with some other comparisons; I would never want George R.R. Martin, J.R.R. Tolkien (what’s up with all the R.R.s?) or any other author or artist/musician whatever to feel that they needed to elicit direction in their work from their audience. This is in the realm of ‘test audience’ and ‘focus groups’ that is a sure fire recipe for killing any creative direction whatsoever.

With regards to narrative or any other artistic direction please ignore everything said on this forum beyond the most general of feedback. I mean, what would happen if there was a public outcry that Ophelia in Hamlet was impossible to sympathize with and so Shakespeare immediately erased her from the plot fearing the backlash of the vocal minority?

Please just tell us the story you want to tell us. You are all doing a beautiful job over there…just keep it up.

Ok, i notice here you look at in a different way, and yeah gailes post does start off that way though it appears to go into story spoilers versus design

but if she means, as you say, should Anet be like an author, who doesnt compromise their vision just for the fans.

I would say, no, but thats only true if you are being lead by a visionary who is also a skilled visionary. If you are making something by commitee, than all input is useful, and you should probably consider the target market and their desires.

the best art is made by artists whose goal is to express something or reach people.

the best products are made by engineers whose goal is to meet the needs of the specifications set in front of him

the best games are made to entertain, and engage people, at the same time generally giving a bit of challenge, or something to overcome.

now, communication wise, i think products, and games need a lot of feedback. Art, maybe not so much, but to appeal to many people you probably need a lot of different art, because it is so subjective.

Wait…is this seriously a thread demanding to know the ending (and thus being able to pre-approve the direction) of an open ended saga?

Yes, we as the audience are ‘completely in the dark’. As it should be. I mean if you’re really upset with how narrative arcs evolve do you read books backwards? Complain to the director that you sat for two hours in the dark without knowing the ending of the movie?

Edit: Sorry if that sounded hostile. I just know from experience the best way to kill any artistic project is to try to get a consensus on direction from the audience. The whole term ‘selling out’ defines this.

I believe the best approach is to realize that some will dig it and some will not, and leave it at that.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Quite honestly, this is my best, most favorite, most beloved of all opportunities, and I’m thrilled to be here. Extra thrilled to be able to give some tasty information, like this about Engineers or this about copyrights, or this about the Gem Conversion Tool and any variety of other significant topics that you care about. Ok, fine, happy, too, to talk with players about favorite game moments, attainments, welcomes, and squirrels, too.

Two unresolved issues with no fix in sight and one thread where your first post was so useless to the debate that you had to come back and try again? Wow.

To answer your later post, we want to know where the game is headed, not where the plot is headed. But, I know you won’t tell us. Honestly, even if you were allowed to, I doubt you or anyone else that will talk to you knows the answer, because it keeps changing.

Bar Brawl, Shooting Gallery, Personality System, Town Clothes… Welcome to Guild Wars 2, where nothing is on the table.

Wasbunny.6531:

Wait…is this seriously a thread demanding to know the ending (and thus being able to pre-approve the direction) of an open ended saga?

Yes, we as the audience are ‘completely in the dark’. As it should be. I mean if you’re really upset with how narrative arcs evolve do you read books backwards? Complain to the director that you sat for two hours in the dark without knowing the ending of the movie?

Please reread my post. You’ve missed the point entirely. The story doesn’t enter into it.

dlonie.6547:

Wasbunny.6531:

Wait…is this seriously a thread demanding to know the ending (and thus being able to pre-approve the direction) of an open ended saga?

Yes, we as the audience are ‘completely in the dark’. As it should be. I mean if you’re really upset with how narrative arcs evolve do you read books backwards? Complain to the director that you sat for two hours in the dark without knowing the ending of the movie?

Please reread my post. You’ve missed the point entirely. The story doesn’t enter into it.

Yeah sorry I wasn’t specifically talking to you. I edited my post…didn’t mean to come off so confrontational.

No problem — thanks for understanding :-)

And again to be clear — let the storycrafters do their thing. That’s the whole point, isn’t is? ^^

dlonie.6547:

No problem — thanks for understanding :-)

And again to be clear — let the storycrafters do their thing. That’s the whole point, isn’t is? ^^

Yes!!!

Wasbunny.6531:

Wait…is this seriously a thread demanding to know the ending (and thus being able to pre-approve the direction) of an open ended saga?

Yes, we as the audience are ‘completely in the dark’. As it should be. I mean if you’re really upset with how narrative arcs evolve do you read books backwards? Complain to the director that you sat for two hours in the dark without knowing the ending of the movie?

Edit: Sorry if that sounded hostile. I just know from experience the best way to kill any artistic project is to try to get a consensus on direction from the audience. The whole term ‘selling out’ defines this.

I believe the best approach is to realize that some will dig it and some will not, and leave it at that.

I don’t want plot details. And I don’t think anyone is asking for that. The thread certainly wasn’t going in that direction.

I want to know systems. Upgrades. Revamps. General information about some of the things Anet is spending their time doing.

Things like:
Will we see Cooking and Jewelrycrafting to 500?
Will we see more and higher level fractals?
New dungeons?
New WvW/PvP maps?
New maps/continents? Full size or the smaller ones we’re getting with LS?
New skills? Rebalances of existing skills?

And not just Yes/No answers, but goals and intentions. Instead of press releases that New Feature is coming out in a week, I’d rather see why this is coming out in a month or two, and what Anet thinks it will accomplish.

dlonie.6547:

cut

Anyway “Dude With Red Tag” can’t say sorry every time if they found problems for a thing we don’t know, and maybe they must delay again and again new feature ’cause they found several problems.

Maybe the concept project of silverwastes have 10 fortess to protect, a legendary spawns in every defence phase and time limit to kill him.

I love silverwastes they bring to us, but that concept project was more challenging and veteran players will rise up despite silverwastes is a good map.

In the worst case develop problem could abort the project “We work in an amazing map!” several month after “no we abort the project, it was too difficult, soz”.
In this case the playerbase could lose respect in arenanet.

The solution is keep the secret and give us the surprise.

Tamasan.6457:

Wasbunny.6531:

Wait…is this seriously a thread demanding to know the ending (and thus being able to pre-approve the direction) of an open ended saga?

Yes, we as the audience are ‘completely in the dark’. As it should be. I mean if you’re really upset with how narrative arcs evolve do you read books backwards? Complain to the director that you sat for two hours in the dark without knowing the ending of the movie?

Edit: Sorry if that sounded hostile. I just know from experience the best way to kill any artistic project is to try to get a consensus on direction from the audience. The whole term ‘selling out’ defines this.

I believe the best approach is to realize that some will dig it and some will not, and leave it at that.

I don’t want plot details. And I don’t think anyone is asking for that. The thread certainly wasn’t going in that direction.

I want to know systems. Upgrades. Revamps. General information about some of the things Anet is spending their time doing.

Things like:
Will we see Cooking and Jewelrycrafting to 500?
Will we see more and higher level fractals?
New dungeons?
New WvW/PvP maps?
New maps/continents? Full size or the smaller ones we’re getting with LS?
New skills? Rebalances of existing skills?

And not just Yes/No answers, but goals and intentions. Instead of press releases that New Feature is coming out in a week, I’d rather see why this is coming out in a month or two, and what Anet thinks it will accomplish.

Yeah ‘The Road Ahead’. I totally agree actually. Sorry but for some reason I mainly read Gaile’s post which refocused the discussion around plot development.

I’ve been guilty of looking at another MMO’s forums and for all the chaos of that new game they did make a ‘Road Ahead’ type post, as well as a stickied ‘Known Bugs’ thread. I sincerely wish ArenaNet would do the same.

So yes I agree, I would love to see at least a broad strokes version of high level (though not set in stone) directions ArenaNet sees this game going. I think this would benefit them as well as us.

nihavel.6592:

Anyway “Dude With Red Tag” can’t say sorry every time if they found problems for a thing we don’t know, and maybe they must delay again and again new feature ’cause they found several problems.

Maybe the concept project of silverwastes have 10 fortess to protect, a legendary spawns in every defence phase and time limit to kill him.

I love silverwastes they bring to us, but that concept project was more challenging and veteran players will rise up despite silverwastes is a good map.

In the worst case develop problem could abort the project “We work in an amazing map!” several month after “no we abort the project, it was too difficult, soz”.
In this case the playerbase could lose respect in arenanet.

The solution is keep the secret and give us the surprise.

Let’s agree to disagree, then.

Your opinion, if I’m not mistaken, is that they should save themselves the chance of backlash if they have to delay/cancel a project.

It’s my opinion, and that of most other posters in this thread, that making players wait for [check all that apply to you: PvP maps; WvW development; PvP modes; new dungeons systems; precursor crafting; PickYourOwnHere!] for up to two years in silence and nothing to show for it is more damaging to the company’s reputation than announcing an occasional setback.

People are leaving the game because it just feels like a dead end. We’ve been waiting a long time for the surprises that we’d like to see. I’m glad you’re happy with a couple new PvE maps. But that doesn’t address the rest of the game — not everyone is into open world PvE.

It’s cool that you’re getting your thing, though :-)

It’s probably the major reason why i stopped playing. There isn’t anything on the horizon to look forward towards. I’ll stop by every several weeks to see if anything is new, but it’s nothing but the halloween and living story updates. That’s pretty underwhelming to be honest. WoW, WS, AA, ESO, Swtor, etc., all have expansions and major updates to look forward towards, and gives players expectations, whether or not they live up to them is to be seen, but at least they can be expected.

I see this, precursor crafting/scavenger hunt, brought up almost always when listing communication woes.

ArenaNet did keep us in the loop, announcing when it was being pushed back, and then when the current iteration was scrapped, and had to be started from scratch. The announcements have been quoted countless times in threads, and yet….it always seems to come up as something the Devs totally ignored and kept silent about.

Good thing it wasn’t something else, or it would be used as an example of how ArenaNet ‘over-hypes’ everything!

A real case of darned if you do, and darned if you don’t. /sigh

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I see this, precursor crafting/scavenger hunt, brought up almost always when listing communication woes.

ArenaNet did keep us in the loop, announcing when it was being pushed back, and then when the current iteration was scrapped, and had to be started from scratch. The announcements have been quoted countless times in threads, and yet….it always seems to come up as something the Devs totally ignored and kept silent about.

Good thing it wasn’t something else, or it would be used as an example of how ArenaNet ‘over-hypes’ everything!

A real case of darned if you do, and darned if you don’t. /sigh

This is the first time I’ve seen mention of them saying that there were setbacks. Do you have quotes?

Gaile Gray.6029:

Ok, I’m back. About Harry Potter…

I think that the whole basis for the presentation in this and other threads about communication has a few pillars. And it’s one of them that I’m thinking about. J. K. Rawlings wrote a series of well-loved books, and I am sure (although I didn’t follow it) that people gave feedback to her on every release, heck, probably every nuance of every release, and that they also provided suggestions for future books. It’s a natural thing: People were highly invested in the series, loved it a bunch, and wanted to know more, or to have input.

In that small sense — and yes, that’s only part of the communication question — I don’t think I’d want our team to communicate about the game’s direction. Like, “Yes, so in the future, all frogs will become sentient, treble in size, and take over Lion’s Arch, leading to the elimination of all non-amphibian races. Yep, yep, that’s where we’re heading with the story.” NOTE: This is NOT where the story is going. This is only a wildly-improbable scenario offered for purposes of… umm… providing a wildly-improbable scenario.

My question: Do you agree that it’s good to not share that sort of information, information related to the actual direction of the game saga as a whole?

If so, then my sense is that you want to know more about the nuts and bolts.

• “Are you looking at XXX new feature?”
• “Do you intend to improve ABC functionality?”
• “Is ### working as intended, or is it bugged, or will you incorporate player feedback to change it?”

Again, this is a small part of the discussion, but I wanted to make sure I was looking at that part accurately. I wondered if generally, no one is asking about the whole “Tell us where the story is going” bit.

I do not think anyone here want spoilers.

For example for another MMORPG I won’t name:
Players learned that 2 new PvP maps are coming and where they will be located.
Players know they will do open world PvP and will let you play justice as well as criminal.
Players have seen alpha footage of these things (a few seconds) and do not know when it will be released.

For Guild Wars 2 WvW we know:
One of the developers said the Orbs would be coming back, then locked the thread when it was bumped up a year later.

For PvP we know some some rumors or poi video that a new game mode is coming, nothing more precise. We also do not know when the map you removed will come back.

Generally for PvE I think the living story you guys are making is great, specially with the new areas. We totally lack information on if/when we will see new skills, weapon types, classes, new traits, graphic updates, etc, however.

It is when it comes to PvP/WvW that there is a huge blank on the direction the game is going and just an alpha screenshot or video with a short description would really be appreciated.

Thanks,

The point of the game is to come up with your own goals. If the game starts to feel like a job, or a chore. Move on to another game, simple.

The Tee Why.4807:

The point of the game is to come up with your own goals. If the game starts to feel like a job, or a chore. Move on to another game, simple.

Thank you for the generic response that shows zero understanding of the original post or the ensuing discussion.

10/10, great job.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I see this, precursor crafting/scavenger hunt, brought up almost always when listing communication woes.

ArenaNet did keep us in the loop, announcing when it was being pushed back, and then when the current iteration was scrapped, and had to be started from scratch. The announcements have been quoted countless times in threads, and yet….it always seems to come up as something the Devs totally ignored and kept silent about.

Good thing it wasn’t something else, or it would be used as an example of how ArenaNet ‘over-hypes’ everything!

A real case of darned if you do, and darned if you don’t. /sigh

How were these updates disseminated? I certainly never saw them. There really is no one central outlet for news. Stuff shows up in interviews on fan sites, on reddit, guru, twitter, Facebook and maybe other places for all I know. Cryptic solved this for CO/STO by having a mod create a forum post with a sentence or two with a link to an interview, etc. that had any substance. It could go something like, “Colin Johannson interviewed on Eurogamer and talks about GW2’s proposed Guild Raids.”

The Announcements area on the forum main page could be used as a central clearing house for links to diverse sites which ANet is using to share info about the game. It could increase the number of players who actually get the communications that do occur. Surely Anet knows where its staff is communicating. Why not a central clearing house with that info so players don’t have to depend on the good will of a random poster to link the articles? Maybe one of Gaile’s team could be given this responsibility.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I see this, precursor crafting/scavenger hunt, brought up almost always when listing communication woes.

ArenaNet did keep us in the loop, announcing when it was being pushed back, and then when the current iteration was scrapped, and had to be started from scratch. The announcements have been quoted countless times in threads, and yet….it always seems to come up as something the Devs totally ignored and kept silent about.

Good thing it wasn’t something else, or it would be used as an example of how ArenaNet ‘over-hypes’ everything!

A real case of darned if you do, and darned if you don’t. /sigh

Yeah those moments of keeping us in the loop were extremely few and very far between.
It would be like a good friend telling you that they are working on a putting together a reunion vacation (that you are really excited about)…then not saying anything about it (even though you ask) for a very long time. Then finally they tell you they had to push back the planning of it due to complications. (yeah np things happen…..kinda would have been nice had they kept you in the loop a little bit more) Then you simply don’t hear anything else about it again for a very long time (remember you were/are really excited about it). Then a couple years later after asking them about it over the course of those couple years they finally just say it’s not going to happen.

Moral of the story is……if your friend treats you this way….they don’t really respect you enough for you to value them that highly as a friend.

Jerus.4350:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I see this, precursor crafting/scavenger hunt, brought up almost always when listing communication woes.

ArenaNet did keep us in the loop, announcing when it was being pushed back, and then when the current iteration was scrapped, and had to be started from scratch. The announcements have been quoted countless times in threads, and yet….it always seems to come up as something the Devs totally ignored and kept silent about.

Good thing it wasn’t something else, or it would be used as an example of how ArenaNet ‘over-hypes’ everything!

A real case of darned if you do, and darned if you don’t. /sigh

This is the first time I’ve seen mention of them saying that there were setbacks. Do you have quotes?

Same. Perhaps if the search function worked…..but that’s again, another thread

I almost dare not utter these words … guys, srsly pls don’t derail this thread….but maybe the fractal leaderboard, fractal chest drops, etc are a better examples of a major communication failure than the precursor crafting/hunt. They were promised when fractal levels were reset, and we haven’t see or heard about them since. And people are soooooo bitter about it (again, please don’t derail this xD)

(I’m talking to you and your sad kitten deSade! [I’ll spare you the evil smiley]).