Guild Wars 2

Ronah.2869:

Have you guys looked at the full zoomed out map of Tyria? My guess is: until we will have all of it filled with explorable zones, we wont see any new continent/expansion.

The living story opens little by little the whole map. It is very possible that the other teams Colin’s talking about are assigned to develop different zones which will be added to the game though the living story.

This is something that I like, I’m eager to see how the rest of the zones become available and the impact that it makes in the world. For example:

Imagine that we start pushing north (even more from what the Pact is already trying to do) in order to beat the hell out of Jormag. With the Living Story we can fight our way through his minions, conquering places lost to the Icebrood and beating his champions (maybe something as awesome as the Dragonspawn fight from the books ), to which that story arc will finish with the defeat of Jormag.

This type of story arc will surely make the world change, opening new zones and enemies. Even better, our deeds will feel more heroic than just culling some crazed Karkas or a bunch of pirates (not that I’m against any of this battles, just saying fighting dragon minions are waaaaaaay cooler), with this the opening of Cantha/Elona will be truly epic.

I think we still have more to see from this game and it’s getting there. I really wish they try to do something like this, give us story arcs that involve opening new zones and fight some epic bosses (Dragons plzzz ), just give them some time to experiment with the Living Story and most importantly let’s keep the feedback going!!

P.D. I’m not a Dragon lover in any way.

I love your posts Kaaboose because they are always spot on with what the problems are in the mmo’s (save for the farming one) this time you’ve come close to describing correctly what’s happening here but there’s something wrong with the analogy. Perhaps it’s the use of TV shows or IPs.

I’ve played about 15 mmo’s in my time and one thing always presented itself as a problem. Subscription mmo’s used dirty tactics to keep people subscribed for longer than they should have been to complete content. They knew that people who worked for a living wouldn’t have time to spend all day on the game to complete things like reputation maxing and progressing thru every dungeon. So they extended it as long as they possibly could. This has been a theme for many years now and has happened in just about every sub mmo out there. The reason? More money.

The temporary content and how it’s being presented in GW2 is the same dirty trick but on the opposite scale. Since there isn’t a sub involved they’ve resorted to gambling tactics with boxes bought from the store, cosmetic items only available from the store, and content that will vanish almost entirely upon completion. Further in order to prevent people from experiencing the content with any kind of solo interest they’ve forced people to group in order to see the dungeons from each and every event by placing them into the Fractals system.

In my view, this is just 1 step closer to their November announcement that people who wish to see new content will be required to have agony resistance including any of the content dungeons we’re seeing in the temporary LS uploads.

These tactics are neither clever or welcomed and will most likely alienate whoever is left lingering waiting for the game to be a positive example in the mmo market. It’s really quite tragic that they can’t think of a better way other than trickery to keep people playing longer.

Also let me be clear I’m not talking about the holiday events including the Dragon event because those to me are holidays, however seeing holidays as anything other than a secondary concern for the game is not something those of us wishing to see a more permanent open world experience monthly would like. Holidays should be the separate small team working on non-world impacting side diversions, the real content should have a larger team and every bit of the dungeons that come out for the events should be translated into the personal story herald (a new herald) so that it will scale with the number of players invited to the dungeon but can be completed solo, and the items should be in game only there should be no more of this cosmetic event items only available via the store for everything. That would alleviate alot of the problems we’re seeing with this development.

Kaaboose.3897:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

‘(Feel free to sub in any Show/Book/Game/Media/Etc. if you don’t like Game Of Thrones!)’

I would like to insert ‘EastEnders’, ‘Days of Our Lives’, ‘All My Children’ or any other soap opera. They were pretty successful back in the day with that model. =)

This is the only reply so far that brought up any positive light on temporary content actually working! I can see the slogans now: Guild Wars 2! The soap opera of MMOS!

But seriously, Claiming temporary content is good because it makes people play it just highlights the point I made about creating a sense of urgancy to make the content seem more compelling. If a developer can’t make a mode that can hold a players interest then maybe it’s not that good to begin with.
I could be wrong since I’ve stoped playing WoW but I’d wager players still do Warsong Gultch and Alterac Valley, Mode that were put in 8 years ago.

WoodenPotatoes just made a video on this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwjqkE8Ncyg

Mirta.5029:

cesmode.4257:

Im casual..in that I have only 2-3 hours to play per night, but take my toon, gear, class, experience serious enough where I want to do well.

And i hate living story. Innovative but its doing squat to further this game. Very stagnat right now.

would it be better if instead we had none of the living story and ended up waiting for an expansion for over a year? Expansions content will come any way, whether living story is there or not.

Please refer to this thread for that debate

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/GW2-unlikely-to-get-expansions-Interview/page/10#post2375418

The Talcmaster.7391:

Fun on someone else’s schedule is not fun

Pretty much my favourite comment out of this whole thread, and really the most pertinent point. The people who are in support of temporary content seem to be comprised of:
a) those who don’t seem to realize you can introduce new content every two weeks without destroying old content every two weeks
b) those who can afford to play regularly/often, clear content in a timely fashion on a regular basis, and don’t give a whit for other people or alternate play styles

What does it mean, when you say you like “temporary” content? All it means is “When I, personally, am through with it, I want it removed from the game so no one else can go in there.” It doesn’t have to mean anything about the quality or release schedule; all it refers to is the fact that the content ANet created gets tossed in the trash bin after a couple weeks. How does that make the game better? How does that contribute to a “living story”?

I have been taking a break from GW2 since Flame and Frost concluded. I want to come back to the game, but I’m still looking for that dynamite excuse to log in again. I’ve been glancing at the website for the past while, and each of the past few updates sounded pretty cool, but you know what? The sheer fact that there is an expiration date on the content does nothing but irritate me, and as soon as each installment passes so does its power to serve as an attraction.

“Oh, but we defeated the Molten Alliance, so it doesn’t make sense to go back and do that dungeon!” Pfffft, baloney. You know darn well this game (and most other MMOs) are full of anachronisms like that — and it’s not like we don’t already have the Fractals of the Mists to satisfy all your lore-fixing time travel needs.

If GW2 actually had a dynamic, episodic nature to it, where the world and the story progressed every couple of weeks, that would really make me get in there and keep up with current events. But from the looks of things, the Tyria I come back to will be the same place as when I left. The Molten Alliance didn’t exist before Flame and Frost, and they really left no permanent impact after they were gone. Ultimately, it was all surface-level stuff, and none of it mattered.

Whatever happened to the ACTUAL story of the game? Aren’t there a bunch of dragons supposedly wreaking havoc on Tyria, right now? How many times do we have to kill Zhaitan before we REALLY kill Zhaitan? Ever thought of adding a new chapter to the Personal Story quest every couple of weeks? That would really be something.

This may mark the first time in history there has been backlash over a steady influx of new, free content. The internets has now officially complained about everything.

This is such a great game, but the way the living story works completely turns me away from it, I wonder how many I’ve missed by now. I’ve moved on from the game knowing what’s new is not for me, the last content they added that I enjoyed was fractals, I hope to login a few months from now and find something else than the new 2-week living story going on that makes me want to log off right away.

Kaaboose.3897:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

‘(Feel free to sub in any Show/Book/Game/Media/Etc. if you don’t like Game Of Thrones!)’

I would like to insert ‘EastEnders’, ‘Days of Our Lives’, ‘All My Children’ or any other soap opera. They were pretty successful back in the day with that model. =)

This is the only reply so far that brought up any positive light on temporary content actually working! I can see the slogans now: Guild Wars 2! The soap opera of MMOS!

But seriously, Claiming temporary content is good because it makes people play it just highlights the point I made about creating a sense of urgancy to make the content seem more compelling. If a developer can’t make a mode that can hold a players interest then maybe it’s not that good to begin with.
I could be wrong since I’ve stoped playing WoW but I’d wager players still do Warsong Gultch and Alterac Valley, Mode that were put in 8 years ago.

Due to concole games. Creating a game that maintains people interest is impossible. plus even to attempt to make one would most likely require many year and funds that not there. No backer would want to wait up to a decade to see such a game made. especially since it would have an outdate graphics engine upon release.

Earlier someone stated you have your finger on the pulse of what is wrong with MMOs. I beg to differ. There are several seasoned folks in the forums that do understand how the industry works. I am sorry to say you are not one of these.

With all the current MMO’s out there and those that are in development, GW2 can win the population lottery by following the plan Colin has laid out if;

• “As we recently announced, we’re up to four living world teams now, which means they will have a much longer development cycle later this year to build more polished content, and content that can be more impactful. (Colin J)”

This content continues to have depth and isn’t solely dependent on fluff or new shopping lists (limit the achievements). This keeps the world fresh and “Living”.

• “The Living World teams are only a small chunk of the total developers at ArenaNet, we’ll be going into details on what many of those other teams will be doing in a blog later this month. (Colin J)”

If by this he means permanent meaningful content releases and or sought after game mechanics then absolutely. This will appease those who want deeper more meaningful content.

• “We also have teams working on much longer term projects, which we will discuss when they are closer to arrival. (Colin J)”

If by this he is referring to an expansion then the July blog is the time to announce it and put the speculation to rest. This will give everyone something to look forward to long term.

I mean what other game out there could boast that they are committed to add regular content on a two week basis, accompanied by larger content releases (for argument’s sake let’s say every 6 months) and follow that up with an expansion pack (speculate 2 years from announcement date). This particular scenario would in fact be the most any MMO player out there could hope for and I believe this would make GW2 the legendary MMO all the creators and investors hoped it would be!

That’s my take on it and If my take is correct then let me be the first to say Colin, you are a frakin genius!

They have around 250 employees. 4 teams working on LS, lets assume at least, i dont know, 60 people.
I’d be interested to know what those 190 people are doing, 10 months and still no LFG tool, PvP/PvE balancing isn’t that great either.

Eddie G.8731:

This may mark the first time in history there has been backlash over a steady influx of new, free content. The internets has now officially complained about everything.

This is a backlash over the REMOVAL of new, free content that players enjoy. Get it right.

EverythingXen.1835:

Eddie G.8731:

This may mark the first time in history there has been backlash over a steady influx of new, free content. The internets has now officially complained about everything.

This is a backlash over the REMOVAL of new, free content that players enjoy. Get it right.

May I ask which content you enjoy?

ColinJohanson.2394:

We’ve said it a few times before, but I want to just re-iterate we’ve heard folks feedback on this and will be doing a much larger mix of permanent, recurring (content that can occur again in the future), and more world impacting releases as it relates to living world in the second half of the year. There will still absolutely be some amount of temporary, in particular story-driven moments to help drive the narrative forward. You’ll also see some of the content previously noted as “temporary” return permanently to the game in the 2nd half of the year.

Three additional notes ->

• As we recently announced, we’re up to four living world teams now, which means they will have a much longer development cycle later this year to build more polished content, and content that can be more impactful.

• The Living World teams are only a small chunk of the total developers at ArenaNet, we’ll be going into details on what many of those other teams will be doing in a blog later this month.

• We also have teams working on much longer term projects, which we will discuss when they are closer to arrival.

We’ve said all of this before, but I think it’s good to just put that message out more frequently so everyone understands where we’re going. Thanks very much for all the feedback folks, as always we continue to listen to your feedback and course correct as we try new things in the live MMO space.

Dear Colin,

The problem with the temporary content has 3 problems..

1 You can not re-play good content like the dungeons.

2 You can not acquire items, skins, achievements and other things associated with that content.

3 You mis part of the story. (Miss one time events)

By changing the story a little bid you can easily keep content like dungeons.

It has already been said that some of that content like the MF will come back (please do not do that as part of the fractals. MF was fun as dungeons including the rewards (mini, jetpack) but not as part of 4 mini dungeons.

So if all dungeons would come back that problem would been solved.

But 2 is the biggest problem. Make sure achievements and items will stay available in the game forever. So only link that only to the non-temporary content.

3 You miss part of the story and that is bad for reasons also explain in the video.

If only part 3 would stay in it would not be a problem but 1 and 2 need to go. So just making sure you ‘also’ add more permanent content will not help. Thats why you also still see the complains after you announced this already multiple times.

Just adding more non-temporary content does not fix the problem with the temporary content at all.

And let not fool each other. The reason for temporary items (2) is to try and get people to buy stuff from the gem-store by creating a feel of urgency..

Thats also the reason many people are not so happy about the announcement that for not there is no expansion planned. This means you guys need to focus on gems and so you get this sort of decisions.

So here are the way to solve the complains about temporary content.

Change the story a little bid so stuff like dungeons can stay in the game. (this would totally fix 1)

For 2. Link items and achievements to the non-temporary content so they stay acquirable forever.

For 3 Record the one-time events. Then I am not just talking about the cut-scenes but if possible also really the events with the players per server and make them available for everybody. Like a story-line. You guys have been testing already with that by giving an items that replays something. But then only the people who played it can see it and they need the items. There should simply be a place where you can see the whole story.

But the marketing people will not like solution 2, so to fix that make sure to DO focus on expansions as income so there is a lesser need to focus on the gem-store and so a lesser need for temporary items.

I hope you read it.. Even if you do nothing with it.

Devata.6589:

Holy cheezus

I managed to read it all and I’m afraid to tell you some things that might be bad news for you:

1. The previous dungeons will be coming back as a fractal, with the difficulty/length being reduced to be able to place it as a fractal.

2. Even with the dungeons returning, the achievements and the special rewards (like the Molten Jetpack) won’t be coming back.

Much like everyone else, we would love to have everything being permanent, but this topic has been raised way too many times in this forums… We’ll see how this goes when they bring back those dungeons, just don’t get your hopes real high since there’s always going to be temporary content.

Sorry to be the hopes crasher, oh and if I’m wrong somewhere with this information please feel free to correct me.

Temporary content considered harmful.

nirvana.8245:

I’m a little perplexed. My understanding of the living world was they were introducing new content as a means of showing how the world was changing and evolving. But by removing that content after a short period of time aren’t we just reverting to what the game was before and showing how it is not changing or evolving?

Thank goodness, thank you nirvana.8245. For a brief moment I felt like i was crazy for being the only one that noticed this.

@Kaboose
I liked your video and I agree that the Living Story focus on providing its best features(dungeons and achievements) as temporary content is detrimental to my enjoyment of the game.

I wanted to use this space to write something directly to the Developers but I feel so disconnected from them that we may as well be speaking different languages. I say I want an expansion and they reply “expansion worth of content in Living Story”, I say I want a new area/zone and they reply “region worth of content in Living Story”. Apparently they are a completely different kind of player of games than I am. I thought we were the same because the level 1-80 experience was something I enjoyed but since January (except for SAB) its been really awkward and confusing.

I…I think we should see other people Anet…

Krosslite.1950:

Mirta.5029:

cesmode.4257:

Im casual..in that I have only 2-3 hours to play per night, but take my toon, gear, class, experience serious enough where I want to do well.

And i hate living story. Innovative but its doing squat to further this game. Very stagnat right now.

would it be better if instead we had none of the living story and ended up waiting for an expansion for over a year? Expansions content will come any way, whether living story is there or not.

Please refer to this thread for that debate

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/GW2-unlikely-to-get-expansions-Interview/page/10#post2375418

I did not say that expansion will come, I said that the expansions content will come. As in we’re going to get the continuation of the main story for free.

Mirta.5029:

Krosslite.1950:

Mirta.5029:

cesmode.4257:

Im casual..in that I have only 2-3 hours to play per night, but take my toon, gear, class, experience serious enough where I want to do well.

And i hate living story. Innovative but its doing squat to further this game. Very stagnat right now.

I was just providing you more detailed info on expansions since it was debated heavily in that thread
would it be better if instead we had none of the living story and ended up waiting for an expansion for over a year? Expansions content will come any way, whether living story is there or not.

Please refer to this thread for that debate

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/GW2-unlikely-to-get-expansions-Interview/page/10#post2375418

I did not say that expansion will come, I said that the expansions content will come. As in we’re going to get the continuation of the main story for free.

ghost.3208:

Devata.6589:

Holy cheezus

I managed to read it all and I’m afraid to tell you some things that might be bad news for you:

1. The previous dungeons will be coming back as a fractal, with the difficulty/length being reduced to be able to place it as a fractal.

2. Even with the dungeons returning, the achievements and the special rewards (like the Molten Jetpack) won’t be coming back.

Much like everyone else, we would love to have everything being permanent, but this topic has been raised way too many times in this forums… We’ll see how this goes when they bring back those dungeons, just don’t get your hopes real high since there’s always going to be temporary content.

Sorry to be the hopes crasher, oh and if I’m wrong somewhere with this information please feel free to correct me.

I know that they did not plan to do it like I said. I just said how it should be done.

But Colin seems to be surprised that people are still complaining even after they said some stuff would come back. And he seems to think people just do not know yet that they will also add more non-permanent content and get some old stuff back and so thinks it will go away if he keeps telling that.. But of course just adding in non-temporary content and getting some stuff back will not help.

So lets hope at some point they will do the stuff I said here. Pretty sure many people would be way more happier and the complains would indeed reduce. Not all of course, but many will.

Mirta.5029:

Krosslite.1950:

Mirta.5029:

cesmode.4257:

Im casual..in that I have only 2-3 hours to play per night, but take my toon, gear, class, experience serious enough where I want to do well.

And i hate living story. Innovative but its doing squat to further this game. Very stagnat right now.

would it be better if instead we had none of the living story and ended up waiting for an expansion for over a year? Expansions content will come any way, whether living story is there or not.

Please refer to this thread for that debate

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/GW2-unlikely-to-get-expansions-Interview/page/10#post2375418

I did not say that expansion will come, I said that the expansions content will come. As in we’re going to get the continuation of the main story for free.

Is NCSOFT a non-commercial company? Is ArenaNet a non-commercial company? Are the employee’s all working for free? No so there is no such thing as free. It has to come from some place and if it’s not coming from expansions it’s coming from gems and if it comes from gems they need to some how get people to buy gems and there we see the main reason for temporary content.. Create a sense of urgency to get people to buy things. First rule in every marketing book.

Devata.6589:

The problem with the temporary content has 3 problems..

1 You can not re-play good content like the dungeons.

2 You can not acquire items, skins, achievements and other things associated with that content.

3 You mis part of the story. (Miss one time events)

I wish to address your 3 “problems”

1) per Colin on Jan. 15th of this year: "Community and player relationships are key components to what makes Guild Wars 2 tick, and will be a massive part of the game as we evolve it further.

Allowing players to share experiences in an open world where other players are seen as helpful, rather than competition, is a huge component of what makes our game what it is. Open world online games are always strongest when players are encouraged and rewarded to interact as a community, to support other each other, and when the flow of the game ushers players to go places where they run into other players across all levels and have shared experiences."

dungeons are not open world nor do the help the community. They are also not a core element to this game.

2) Not everyone being able to get all the skins is really a good thing. This creates a sense of individuality. If everyone has every thing the same. Then everyone will be nothing but clones. It is this uniqueness that they have given us that helps make this game different and exciting. What you wish reminds me of Everquest where all the warriors had Longhorn Cattle horns on the armor. We all looked the same, make it difficult at time to tell who the main tank was at times in boss fights.

3) the stories are not required. I have already skipped three of them on purpose. that last being the pirates we just were given in the last Living Story. Do I feel like I have missed anything? no. Plus if you feel you need to catch up you can look back through the blogs or go here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/lwd/The-Historian-for-people-who-missed-content/page/2#post2376921

Simply your problems are really not problems to most. Just a few folks like yourself consider them problems. I find it great that we can personalize our characters. So what if we didn’t get any wing. Will they have wings again? Most likely and maybe even better ones.

tigirius.9014:

I love your posts Kaaboose because they are always spot on with what the problems are in the mmo’s (save for the farming one) this time you’ve come close to describing correctly what’s happening here but there’s something wrong with the analogy. Perhaps it’s the use of TV shows or IPs.

I’ve played about 15 mmo’s in my time and one thing always presented itself as a problem. Subscription mmo’s used dirty tactics to keep people subscribed for longer than they should have been to complete content. They knew that people who worked for a living wouldn’t have time to spend all day on the game to complete things like reputation maxing and progressing thru every dungeon. So they extended it as long as they possibly could. This has been a theme for many years now and has happened in just about every sub mmo out there. The reason? More money.

The temporary content and how it’s being presented in GW2 is the same dirty trick but on the opposite scale. Since there isn’t a sub involved they’ve resorted to gambling tactics with boxes bought from the store, cosmetic items only available from the store, and content that will vanish almost entirely upon completion. Further in order to prevent people from experiencing the content with any kind of solo interest they’ve forced people to group in order to see the dungeons from each and every event by placing them into the Fractals system.

In my view, this is just 1 step closer to their November announcement that people who wish to see new content will be required to have agony resistance including any of the content dungeons we’re seeing in the temporary LS uploads.

These tactics are neither clever or welcomed and will most likely alienate whoever is left lingering waiting for the game to be a positive example in the mmo market. It’s really quite tragic that they can’t think of a better way other than trickery to keep people playing longer.

Also let me be clear I’m not talking about the holiday events including the Dragon event because those to me are holidays, however seeing holidays as anything other than a secondary concern for the game is not something those of us wishing to see a more permanent open world experience monthly would like. Holidays should be the separate small team working on non-world impacting side diversions, the real content should have a larger team and every bit of the dungeons that come out for the events should be translated into the personal story herald (a new herald) so that it will scale with the number of players invited to the dungeon but can be completed solo, and the items should be in game only there should be no more of this cosmetic event items only available via the store for everything. That would alleviate alot of the problems we’re seeing with this development.

Kaaboose.3897:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

‘(Feel free to sub in any Show/Book/Game/Media/Etc. if you don’t like Game Of Thrones!)’

I would like to insert ‘EastEnders’, ‘Days of Our Lives’, ‘All My Children’ or any other soap opera. They were pretty successful back in the day with that model. =)

This is the only reply so far that brought up any positive light on temporary content actually working! I can see the slogans now: Guild Wars 2! The soap opera of MMOS!

But seriously, Claiming temporary content is good because it makes people play it just highlights the point I made about creating a sense of urgancy to make the content seem more compelling. If a developer can’t make a mode that can hold a players interest then maybe it’s not that good to begin with.
I could be wrong since I’ve stoped playing WoW but I’d wager players still do Warsong Gultch and Alterac Valley, Mode that were put in 8 years ago.

This is the same point I’ve been thinking for a while now. Most of what is being implemented feels like the same sort of time filler pieces in subscription game, collect 100vs of that, kill thousands of those. Just because you can create more of it is no reason to be applauded. There is no altruistic motive behind it either, it’s the same methods to keep people playing but instead of peddling a subscription it’s lockboxes.

Now they have done some amazing pieces of content, Halloween was amazing, the new dungeons and jumping puzzles great, and the Southsun cove changes were perfect but there is just too much meaningless filler as an addendum to it.

Devata.6589:

Mirta.5029:

Krosslite.1950:

Mirta.5029:

cesmode.4257:

Im casual..in that I have only 2-3 hours to play per night, but take my toon, gear, class, experience serious enough where I want to do well.

And i hate living story. Innovative but its doing squat to further this game. Very stagnat right now.

would it be better if instead we had none of the living story and ended up waiting for an expansion for over a year? Expansions content will come any way, whether living story is there or not.

Please refer to this thread for that debate

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/GW2-unlikely-to-get-expansions-Interview/page/10#post2375418

I did not say that expansion will come, I said that the expansions content will come. As in we’re going to get the continuation of the main story for free.

Is NCSOFT a non-commercial company? Is ArenaNet a non-commercial company? Are the employee’s all working for free? No so there is no such thing as free. It has to come from some place and if it’s not coming from expansions it’s coming from gems and if it comes from gems they need to some how get people to buy gems and there we see the main reason for temporary content.. Create a sense of urgency to get people to buy things. First rule in every marketing book.

If you do not buy items in the cash shop then the new content is free.
If you do buy items in the cash shop then you are keeping Anet in business and thus making more content for us to enjoy.
I am a successful businessman of a mufti-million dollar company. I am more aware them most on these forums of what is involved and what Anet is doing to keep themselves solvent and to keep this wonderful game coming to us the consumers of their product.
I must also add; that I do use the cash shop. So for me it is not free.

Jewel.1457:

This is the same point I’ve been thinking for a while now. Most of what is being implemented feels like the same sort of time filler pieces in subscription game, collect 100vs of that, kill thousands of those. Just because you can create more of it is no reason to be applauded. There is no altruistic motive behind it either, it’s the same methods to keep people play but instead of a subscription it’s lockboxes.

Now they have done some amazing pieces of content, Halloween was amazing, the new dungeons and jumping puzzles great, and the Southsun cove changes were perfect but there is just too much meaningless filler as an addendum to it.

Arenanet first and foremost is a company. Companies can only survive if they have income. We do not have to pay a subscription fee. So they have to get their money from somewhere. That is why there is a cash shop.
Stop thinking of MMORPGs as a console game you go buy place in your console and that is that. MMOs are an on going living world that can go on for years. Not days. Years!
To be able to keep things going they need to be able to pay their staff. Once the money stops coming in then they close down the game and start a new one or sell of the program to others that use it.
Be thankful there is a cash shop. Anet has made it clear that the cash shop is making it possible for them to start giving us this “Living World” experience. I for one thoroughly am enjoying the ride and plan on staying on the ride till they kick me out the door as they shut down the last server.

Jewel.1457:

tigirius.9014:

I love your posts Kaaboose because they are always spot on with what the problems are in the mmo’s (save for the farming one) this time you’ve come close to describing correctly what’s happening here but there’s something wrong with the analogy. Perhaps it’s the use of TV shows or IPs.

I’ve played about 15 mmo’s in my time and one thing always presented itself as a problem. Subscription mmo’s used dirty tactics to keep people subscribed for longer than they should have been to complete content. They knew that people who worked for a living wouldn’t have time to spend all day on the game to complete things like reputation maxing and progressing thru every dungeon. So they extended it as long as they possibly could. This has been a theme for many years now and has happened in just about every sub mmo out there. The reason? More money.

The temporary content and how it’s being presented in GW2 is the same dirty trick but on the opposite scale. Since there isn’t a sub involved they’ve resorted to gambling tactics with boxes bought from the store, cosmetic items only available from the store, and content that will vanish almost entirely upon completion. Further in order to prevent people from experiencing the content with any kind of solo interest they’ve forced people to group in order to see the dungeons from each and every event by placing them into the Fractals system.

In my view, this is just 1 step closer to their November announcement that people who wish to see new content will be required to have agony resistance including any of the content dungeons we’re seeing in the temporary LS uploads.

These tactics are neither clever or welcomed and will most likely alienate whoever is left lingering waiting for the game to be a positive example in the mmo market. It’s really quite tragic that they can’t think of a better way other than trickery to keep people playing longer.

Also let me be clear I’m not talking about the holiday events including the Dragon event because those to me are holidays, however seeing holidays as anything other than a secondary concern for the game is not something those of us wishing to see a more permanent open world experience monthly would like. Holidays should be the separate small team working on non-world impacting side diversions, the real content should have a larger team and every bit of the dungeons that come out for the events should be translated into the personal story herald (a new herald) so that it will scale with the number of players invited to the dungeon but can be completed solo, and the items should be in game only there should be no more of this cosmetic event items only available via the store for everything. That would alleviate alot of the problems we’re seeing with this development.

Kaaboose.3897:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

‘(Feel free to sub in any Show/Book/Game/Media/Etc. if you don’t like Game Of Thrones!)’

I would like to insert ‘EastEnders’, ‘Days of Our Lives’, ‘All My Children’ or any other soap opera. They were pretty successful back in the day with that model. =)

This is the only reply so far that brought up any positive light on temporary content actually working! I can see the slogans now: Guild Wars 2! The soap opera of MMOS!

But seriously, Claiming temporary content is good because it makes people play it just highlights the point I made about creating a sense of urgancy to make the content seem more compelling. If a developer can’t make a mode that can hold a players interest then maybe it’s not that good to begin with.
I could be wrong since I’ve stoped playing WoW but I’d wager players still do Warsong Gultch and Alterac Valley, Mode that were put in 8 years ago.

This is the same point I’ve been thinking for a while now. Most of what is being implemented feels like the same sort of time filler pieces in subscription game, collect 100vs of that, kill thousands of those. Just because you can create more of it is no reason to be applauded. There is no altruistic motive behind it either, it’s the same methods to keep people playing but instead of peddling a subscription it’s lockboxes.

Now they have done some amazing pieces of content, Halloween was amazing, the new dungeons and jumping puzzles great, and the Southsun cove changes were perfect but there is just too much meaningless filler as an addendum to it.

What’s filler for you, is content for some. Some people don’t like dungeons. It really is that simple.

Krosslite.1950:

Devata.6589:

The problem with the temporary content has 3 problems..

1 You can not re-play good content like the dungeons.

2 You can not acquire items, skins, achievements and other things associated with that content.

3 You mis part of the story. (Miss one time events)

I wish to address your 3 “problems”

1) per Colin on Jan. 15th of this year: "Community and player relationships are key components to what makes Guild Wars 2 tick, and will be a massive part of the game as we evolve it further.

Allowing players to share experiences in an open world where other players are seen as helpful, rather than competition, is a huge component of what makes our game what it is. Open world online games are always strongest when players are encouraged and rewarded to interact as a community, to support other each other, and when the flow of the game ushers players to go places where they run into other players across all levels and have shared experiences."

dungeons are not open world nor do the help the community. They are also not a core element to this game.

2) Not everyone being able to get all the skins is really a good thing. This creates a sense of individuality. If everyone has every thing the same. Then everyone will be nothing but clones. It is this uniqueness that they have given us that helps make this game different and exciting. What you wish reminds me of Everquest where all the warriors had Longhorn Cattle horns on the armor. We all looked the same, make it difficult at time to tell who the main tank was at times in boss fights.

3) the stories are not required. I have already skipped three of them on purpose. that last being the pirates we just were given in the last Living Story. Do I feel like I have missed anything? no. Plus if you feel you need to catch up you can look back through the blogs or go here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/lwd/The-Historian-for-people-who-missed-content/page/2#post2376921

Simply your problems are really not problems to most. Just a few folks like yourself consider them problems. I find it great that we can personalize our characters. So what if we didn’t get any wing. Will they have wings again? Most likely and maybe even better ones.

Then I will address your 3 reactions.

1
Except for he the SAB (that I did like very much btw) I did all the dungeons with party’s and was working together with them. Maybe you solo them all but most don’t so they do get to let the community play together. And then they work much more together then when they just do the same event somewhere.

2
You make one big mistake here. The fact that you are always will be able to get something will not mean everybody will have everything. Some stuff may be very hard to get and then you can’t possibly get all items and even if you did you would not be able to use them all on the same time.. You just have a possibility to go for the item you like to make you character unique in the way you like it.

I never played Everquest but if everybody had the same armor then it means they did not have a lot of choice or only one set that really looked cool. It has nothing to do with not being able to get all items at all times.

So no, if everybody is able to get everything it does not mean everybody will look the same.

3 I personally don’t see this as the biggest problem but whats the problem with having an in-game ability to see those events?

“Simply your problems are really not problems to most.” No, but then again.. if you see this forum you can see there are a lot of people complaining about the temporary stuff, not just me. I for example did not create this topic. And there are many topics directly or indirectly about this. And like I said before, the uniqueness will not be harmed when you are able to always get all items. As long as it are many and some (many) of them will always be hard to get (hard dungeon or something).

So ‘fixing’ it would also not harm the people who do not mind.

Devata.6589:

Is NCSOFT a non-commercial company? Is ArenaNet a non-commercial company? Are the employee’s all working for free? No so there is no such thing as free. It has to come from some place and if it’s not coming from expansions it’s coming from gems and if it comes from gems they need to some how get people to buy gems and there we see the main reason for temporary content.. Create a sense of urgency to get people to buy things. First rule in every marketing book.

And what is wrong with that strategy? We can still play without paying a dime after we bought the game.

Mirta.5029:

Kaaboose.3897:

I’ve gone over how Anet could make the world change based on a players actions by merging PvE servers and creating different versions of each zone based on the progress of that players personal/living story

Not really. WoW did it and it prevents people from actually playing together because you’ll be on a different layer than your friend depending on progress. And you are the same guy! The guy that was complaining for months now!
Must make you sour to not be the targeted audience. Don’t worry though, we’re all sour at some point. I’m still sour about Bioshock Infinite, Mass Effect 3 and The Sims 3. It’s best to get a game you like and not look back at the ones that hurt you.

No, The system I propose, WHICH ALREADY EXISTS IN THE GAME, works around that.

Krosslite.1950:

Devata.6589:

Mirta.5029:

Krosslite.1950:

Mirta.5029:

cesmode.4257:

Im casual..in that I have only 2-3 hours to play per night, but take my toon, gear, class, experience serious enough where I want to do well.

And i hate living story. Innovative but its doing squat to further this game. Very stagnat right now.

would it be better if instead we had none of the living story and ended up waiting for an expansion for over a year? Expansions content will come any way, whether living story is there or not.

Please refer to this thread for that debate

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/GW2-unlikely-to-get-expansions-Interview/page/10#post2375418

I did not say that expansion will come, I said that the expansions content will come. As in we’re going to get the continuation of the main story for free.

Is NCSOFT a non-commercial company? Is ArenaNet a non-commercial company? Are the employee’s all working for free? No so there is no such thing as free. It has to come from some place and if it’s not coming from expansions it’s coming from gems and if it comes from gems they need to some how get people to buy gems and there we see the main reason for temporary content.. Create a sense of urgency to get people to buy things. First rule in every marketing book.

If you do not buy items in the cash shop then the new content is free.
If you do buy items in the cash shop then you are keeping Anet in business and thus making more content for us to enjoy.
I am a successful businessman of a mufti-million dollar company. I am more aware them most on these forums of what is involved and what Anet is doing to keep themselves solvent and to keep this wonderful game coming to us the consumers of their product.
I must also add; that I do use the cash shop. So for me it is not free.

Not sure you got the point of that comment. I said it’s not free. The extra content is not free. aka it has to be paid.

For that is does not matter who pays it, it has to be paid.

You say the same “If you do buy items in the cash shop then you are keeping Anet in business and thus making more content for us to enjoy.” so it is not free. Like I said.

What I added to that was that the gem-store focus causes for decisions to be made like the temporary content, and if you are the mufti-million dollar company you also know that.

I personally think that is bad for the game and if you look at the forum (or this thread) many people complain about it so thats what I say, go for expansions packs so the content gets paid by expansions in stead of it getting paid by gems as it needs to get paid. One way or the other… It is not for free.

If it get paid by the expansion then the gem-store focus could be less and then there was no need for the temporary content.

And just for the record “a successful businessman of a mufti-million dollar company.”. So you deem yourself successful and work for a mufti-million dollar company? Or you own a mufti-million dollar company and if so, what company?

Morrigan.2809:

Mirta.5029:

Kaaboose.3897:

I’ve gone over how Anet could make the world change based on a players actions by merging PvE servers and creating different versions of each zone based on the progress of that players personal/living story

Not really. WoW did it and it prevents people from actually playing together because you’ll be on a different layer than your friend depending on progress. And you are the same guy! The guy that was complaining for months now!
Must make you sour to not be the targeted audience. Don’t worry though, we’re all sour at some point. I’m still sour about Bioshock Infinite, Mass Effect 3 and The Sims 3. It’s best to get a game you like and not look back at the ones that hurt you.

Add Dragon Age 2 and Dungeon Siege whatever after Aranna to the list.
Don’t mention Sims 3- the Sims are dead to me do you hear :P

OT: Temp content is not harming this game- you may not like it but it is a very innovative way to deal with people who blaze through content in two weeks and then cry here that they have nothing to do.
How long do you think an expansion will last those types?
If I recall the first 80 were around even before the official launch day.

The rest of us can take it/ leave it /enjoy/ignore it and still be assured that if this particular update does not interest you the next one might.

Re-read what you just typed. “How long do you think an expansion will last?” It will last as long as I take to finish it.
How long do you think temporary content will last? “Until Anet takes it away”
I COULD take it/ leave it/ enjoy it as I saw fit but I can’t because they ARE TAKING IT AWAY. You are defending regular content updates (Which have plenty of positives vs negativea) not temporary content.

Kaaboose.3897:

No, The system I propose, WHICH ALREADY EXISTS IN THE GAME, works around that.

and like I said – YOU WOULD BE PLAYING WITH LESS PEOPLE THEN

Re-read what you just typed. “How long do you think an expansion will last?” It will last as long as I take to finish it.
How long do you think temporary content will last? “Until Anet takes it away”
I COULD take it/ leave it/ enjoy it as I saw fit but I can’t because they ARE TAKING IT AWAY. You are defending regular content updates (Which have plenty of positives vs negativea) not temporary content.

I didn’t ask how much it will last for you, I asked for how long will it hold the other players interested. Normally it’s a week or two. That’s all. Then the world is empty again. At least this way I see players.

Krosslite.1950:

Jewel.1457:

This is the same point I’ve been thinking for a while now. Most of what is being implemented feels like the same sort of time filler pieces in subscription game, collect 100vs of that, kill thousands of those. Just because you can create more of it is no reason to be applauded. There is no altruistic motive behind it either, it’s the same methods to keep people play but instead of a subscription it’s lockboxes.

Now they have done some amazing pieces of content, Halloween was amazing, the new dungeons and jumping puzzles great, and the Southsun cove changes were perfect but there is just too much meaningless filler as an addendum to it.

Be thankful there is a cash shop. Anet has made it clear that the cash shop is making it possible for them to start giving us this “Living World” experience. I for one thoroughly am enjoying the ride and plan on staying on the ride till they kick me out the door as they shut down the last server.

Partly true. They need to make the money.. but if you need to be thankful there is a cash shop? They could also make the money with yearly expansions and personally I think the ingame decisions that resulted out of that are much better then those that result out of cash shops.
It’s not like cash shops are the only solution, nor that it is the best solution.

OP, I disagree with you. I missed a good portion of the Aetherblade content, but I still disagree. It’s because, I know that there will be more NEW content right behind it. I think it’s GREAT that all this NEW content is continually being put out. If this content were temporary, and then we had NOTHING to replace it, it would be a problem.

For every opinion about something being wrong or bad for the game, there are just as many other ppl who enjoy it and think it’s great.

Devata.6589:

Krosslite.1950:

Jewel.1457:

This is the same point I’ve been thinking for a while now. Most of what is being implemented feels like the same sort of time filler pieces in subscription game, collect 100vs of that, kill thousands of those. Just because you can create more of it is no reason to be applauded. There is no altruistic motive behind it either, it’s the same methods to keep people play but instead of a subscription it’s lockboxes.

Now they have done some amazing pieces of content, Halloween was amazing, the new dungeons and jumping puzzles great, and the Southsun cove changes were perfect but there is just too much meaningless filler as an addendum to it.

Be thankful there is a cash shop. Anet has made it clear that the cash shop is making it possible for them to start giving us this “Living World” experience. I for one thoroughly am enjoying the ride and plan on staying on the ride till they kick me out the door as they shut down the last server.

Partly true. They need to make the money.. but if you need to be thankful there is a cash shop? They could also make the money with yearly expansions and personally I think the ingame decisions that resulted out of that are much better then those that result out of cash shops.
It’s not like cash shops are the only solution, nor that it is the best solution.

I don’t think that selling expansions is enough to support any real kind of content generation. Maybe it was 8 years ago when Guild Wars 1 launched, but the landscape has changed. As the simplest example, Guild Wars 2 has a staff that’s at least 6 times the size of Guild Wars 1, which required a move to a newer (and probably more expensive) office space. There’s for more competition for players now as well.

Games either have box sales and a monthly fee or box sales and a cash shop or just a cash shop. Some have box sales, a monthly fee AND a cash shop. Many went free to play after a period of time where they had a monthly fee where they made a lot of money.

Anyone can say that box sales would be enough to allow content generation but that doesn’t make it true. I don’t think it would work today, where as many years back it might have. The industry is too competitive, player expecations are too high, and the overhead is much higher than it used to be.

Mirta.5029:

Devata.6589:

Is NCSOFT a non-commercial company? Is ArenaNet a non-commercial company? Are the employee’s all working for free? No so there is no such thing as free. It has to come from some place and if it’s not coming from expansions it’s coming from gems and if it comes from gems they need to some how get people to buy gems and there we see the main reason for temporary content.. Create a sense of urgency to get people to buy things. First rule in every marketing book.

And what is wrong with that strategy? We can still play without paying a dime after we bought the game.

I did explain that in a earlier comments and basically it’s the subject of this whole thread.. How temporary content is not liked by many people and that strategy results in this temporary content.

So thats what wrong with the strategy.

Devata.6589:

Mirta.5029:

Devata.6589:

Is NCSOFT a non-commercial company? Is ArenaNet a non-commercial company? Are the employee’s all working for free? No so there is no such thing as free. It has to come from some place and if it’s not coming from expansions it’s coming from gems and if it comes from gems they need to some how get people to buy gems and there we see the main reason for temporary content.. Create a sense of urgency to get people to buy things. First rule in every marketing book.

And what is wrong with that strategy? We can still play without paying a dime after we bought the game.

I did explain that in a earlier comments and basically it’s the subject of this whole thread.. How temporary content is not liked by many people and that strategy results in this temporary content.

So thats what wrong with the strategy.

But no one really has numbers on how many like the temporary content and how many more don’t care.

Many people don’t like dungeons, should they be removed from the game?

mbridg.4069:

OP, I disagree with you. I missed a good portion of the Aetherblade content, but I still disagree. It’s because, I know that there will be more NEW content right behind it. I think it’s GREAT that all this NEW content is continually being put out. If this content were temporary, and then we had NOTHING to replace it, it would be a problem.

For every opinion about something being wrong or bad for the game, there are just as many other ppl who enjoy it and think it’s great.

I just read this and see you say you disagree but then read a comment that means you also sort of agree.

You miss the old stuff, but you mind less because there is new stuff.. But the OP does not say the old stuff must stay and there may be no new content. He says, new content is fine but don’t take away the old one.

So that means you can be happy with your new content like you are AND don’t have to miss the old content. So I must conclude you agree with OP. You do mind a little less about it then he does but you do agree.

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Krosslite.1950:

Jewel.1457:

This is the same point I’ve been thinking for a while now. Most of what is being implemented feels like the same sort of time filler pieces in subscription game, collect 100vs of that, kill thousands of those. Just because you can create more of it is no reason to be applauded. There is no altruistic motive behind it either, it’s the same methods to keep people play but instead of a subscription it’s lockboxes.

Now they have done some amazing pieces of content, Halloween was amazing, the new dungeons and jumping puzzles great, and the Southsun cove changes were perfect but there is just too much meaningless filler as an addendum to it.

Be thankful there is a cash shop. Anet has made it clear that the cash shop is making it possible for them to start giving us this “Living World” experience. I for one thoroughly am enjoying the ride and plan on staying on the ride till they kick me out the door as they shut down the last server.

Partly true. They need to make the money.. but if you need to be thankful there is a cash shop? They could also make the money with yearly expansions and personally I think the ingame decisions that resulted out of that are much better then those that result out of cash shops.
It’s not like cash shops are the only solution, nor that it is the best solution.

I don’t think that selling expansions is enough to support any real kind of content generation. Maybe it was 8 years ago when Guild Wars 1 launched, but the landscape has changed. As the simplest example, Guild Wars 2 has a staff that’s at least 6 times the size of Guild Wars 1, which required a move to a newer (and probably more expensive) office space. There’s for more competition for players now as well.

Games either have box sales and a monthly fee or box sales and a cash shop or just a cash shop. Some have box sales, a monthly fee AND a cash shop. Many went free to play after a period of time where they had a monthly fee where they made a lot of money.

Anyone can say that box sales would be enough to allow content generation but that doesn’t make it true. I don’t think it would work today, where as many years back it might have. The industry is too competitive, player expecations are too high, and the overhead is much higher than it used to be.

Well anyone could also say it would not be enough but that also doesn’t make it true. I don’t have the exact numbers so it’s hard to calculate. But if they used expansion I think it is fair to say that nearly all active players would buy it while a much smaller part of the players will ready buy gems. Now there will be some people who buy a lot of gems but they would most likely also buy gems when there was a less focus on the gem-store (like the first few months of GW2).

So then the questions is what the average player would pay +- per year for gems and what they make on an expansion. Personally I think it will be close with the difference that the expansion option is better for the game and so may result in more players so that it in the long run may be even result in more money.

If you go on forums of subscription-based games you see many of the subscription-based fans say thats the only way a game can be paid.

ColinJohanson.2394:

We’ve said it a few times before, but I want to just re-iterate we’ve heard folks feedback on this and will be doing a much larger mix of permanent, recurring (content that can occur again in the future), and more world impacting releases as it relates to living world in the second half of the year. There will still absolutely be some amount of temporary, in particular story-driven moments to help drive the narrative forward. You’ll also see some of the content previously noted as “temporary” return permanently to the game in the 2nd half of the year.

Three additional notes ->

• As we recently announced, we’re up to four living world teams now, which means they will have a much longer development cycle later this year to build more polished content, and content that can be more impactful.

• The Living World teams are only a small chunk of the total developers at ArenaNet, we’ll be going into details on what many of those other teams will be doing in a blog later this month.

• We also have teams working on much longer term projects, which we will discuss when they are closer to arrival.

We’ve said all of this before, but I think it’s good to just put that message out more frequently so everyone understands where we’re going. Thanks very much for all the feedback folks, as always we continue to listen to your feedback and course correct as we try new things in the live MMO space.

I don’t expect a reply Colin but I can still hope this will be read:

You say you recently went from One team from Flame and Frost, to Four times that amount. You then state that thoee Four teams only makes up a small chunk of the total devolpers at Anet. Where are all these guys coming from? Did you just recently get a huge boost to your staff? Or have you the same amount of staff that have been working on other aspects of the game this whole time?
I only ask because the numbers vs content just don’t seem to add up.
Also being told we’ll see “SOME” of the temporary contnet return isn’t very settling. You’ve stated SOME will be left behind in the past, and that equaled a jumping puzzle.
I’m sure many will jump down my throat for daring to question you after you took the time to respond and I should be greatful for that but, as a custome, i just have to stress that I’m all out of good faith with you guys.
You have so many systems in place already that can inovate the story into a wonderful, immersive and even episodic experiance that are just not being utilised. Promises made in the manifesto almost 2 years ago now that have gone unforfilled are being made again. You can do immersion so much better with events based off player choices (I’ve seen this done in the PS!) and having muliple version of maps for differnt stages of an epic storyline would be far more accessable then temporary content. You’ve already demonstrated with the overflow system how easy it can be to switch from a map you’re on to a map your freind is on. Couple this with a LFG system for reply past parts of the game, either with friends or guildees and you’re already well on your way to a living breathing evolving world that reacts to the player rather then a strick realse date of limited time content to make it seem immersive.
One last confession. I haven’t logged into the bazaar yet, and I’m not sure anymore what my motivation for doing so is supposed to be. Limited time rewards? Well yeah that’s nice but what use are they if there’s no permenent content to show them off in? And how special are they when theres a new trinket to get 2 weeks later? The story? None of the Living Story so far has left any real impact on the world except for the Southsun isle. But that wasn’t because of me, that was because of the world. I didn’t have anything to do with that. The game would have carried on quite well without me.
Remeber when Ree Soesbee said thatMMO’s had lost the ability to make the player feel important? That’s what I feel a focus on temporary living story is doing.
I’m all for inovation, And you manifesto is what made me SO into Guild Wars 2 and has kept me going all this time but you seem to have forgoten you wanted to make a game for the player.
Guild Wars 2 just seems to have become a game that wants the player to work for it.

Galen Grey.4709:

Kaaboose.3897:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

‘(Feel free to sub in any Show/Book/Game/Media/Etc. if you don’t like Game Of Thrones!)’

I would like to insert ‘EastEnders’, ‘Days of Our Lives’, ‘All My Children’ or any other soap opera. They were pretty successful back in the day with that model. =)

This is the only reply so far that brought up any positive light on temporary content actually working! I can see the slogans now: Guild Wars 2! The soap opera of MMOS!

But seriously, Claiming temporary content is good because it makes people play it just highlights the point I made about creating a sense of urgancy to make the content seem more compelling. If a developer can’t make a mode that can hold a players interest then maybe it’s not that good to begin with.
I could be wrong since I’ve stoped playing WoW but I’d wager players still do Warsong Gultch and Alterac Valley, Mode that were put in 8 years ago.

Sure but WoW doesnt release new content every 2 weeks. How many players were playing Warsong or Alterac in the first 2 weeks of MoP release?

I think its only natural to expect players to try new content and if you’re releasing content every 2 weeks essentially you have new content all the time!

I mean think about it, if they’ve kept all the content released in game, how likely would it be for you to play in the mad king’s labyrinth today, or tomorrow or the rest of this week?

Odd you chose Re-occuring Festival content for your example of temporary conentn but I’ll role with it for the sake of example.
It would depend on many things. Is there a guildee or friend that hasn’t been there and would like to check it out? Maybe I’d like to go with him. Is there a crafting material that’s only availbe down there that I might need? I might go there to get it. Is one of the daily achivements to do something in that area? I might go there. Am I feeling nostalgic about the time I nearly died to an army of candy corn monstrosities that didn’t like me mining their unborn children? I might go down there. Did a door to that area just mysteriausly pop up in front of me for no apernt reason? I might go down there…

Draknar.5748:

TheDraco.3965:

Unfortunately they have no reason to stop with temporary content. It’s a minimum work maximum profit model fueled by people buying into rng. It keeps the gears turning and the cash flowing. If you really want to see a change then simply dont buy gems.

Minimum work? Really? I’d love to see your explanation as to how adding entire dungeons, PvP game modes, JPs, voice acted cutscenes, new items, and yes even RNG items and then taking the time to remove them 2 weeks later is minimum work. If anything it requires significantly more work to add then remove content than it requires to add and leave content.

I mean really, please enlighten me as to how releasing the Aetherblade Retreat or the Molten Facility (which everyone agrees were legit dungeons) or Mad King’s Clocktower and other JPs and then removing them is part of a minimum work maximum profit model?

Do you people even think before you speak anymore or do you really just dislike the game so much you will just say anything to make the point that GW2 sucks and the devs are wasting their time releasing new content?

I agree that certain aspects of the game could use improvements, but to say that bi-weekly content releases are minimum work is just plain ignorant and makes me sadfaced

So if they’re putting so much work and effort into this stuff why are they taking it out again? Who is it benifiting?

Gizmo.9178:

I love all this temporary content. Always something new for me to do, buy, or whatever. I do not speed rush through the game so I always have tons of places to explore, items to try and get, and games to play. I hope this does not change anytime soon.

Once again, You are defending NEW content, not temporary content. Why can’t posters here tell the difference?

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Mirta.5029:

Devata.6589:

Is NCSOFT a non-commercial company? Is ArenaNet a non-commercial company? Are the employee’s all working for free? No so there is no such thing as free. It has to come from some place and if it’s not coming from expansions it’s coming from gems and if it comes from gems they need to some how get people to buy gems and there we see the main reason for temporary content.. Create a sense of urgency to get people to buy things. First rule in every marketing book.

And what is wrong with that strategy? We can still play without paying a dime after we bought the game.

I did explain that in a earlier comments and basically it’s the subject of this whole thread.. How temporary content is not liked by many people and that strategy results in this temporary content.

So thats what wrong with the strategy.

But no one really has numbers on how many like the temporary content and how many more don’t care.

Many people don’t like dungeons, should they be removed from the game?

You see there is a big difference here. It’s really the other way around. If we remove dungeons we do harm those who like it but if we would not remove now content (make temporary content) we would not harm those who do not mind that it is temporary.

And check my first comment here to see what I am talking about if it go’s about temporary content. I do say they can still have temporary events. I understand how that may be needed for a story but dungeons (or dungeon-like content), items and achievements can easily be fitted in, in a non-temporary way. Just like them to the non-content stuff and your done.

Devata.6589:

So then the questions is what the average player would pay +- per year for gems and what they make on an expansion. Personally I think it will be close with the difference that the expansion option is better for the game and so may result in more players so that it in the long run may be even result in more money.

This is not something they just flew off the handle and stated this is the way we are going to do it.

Most likely they have several meetings on the issue. Had several graphs up showing the how other MMOs are trending and how they are handling bring income into the game. The very method that Vayne listed earlier.

So for them to adopt this method to Anet meant they felt they could make the most money doing it with bi-weekly updates instead of the traditional expansions method.

You must also realize they stated that expansion packs are not off the table just something they will not do for the next year or more.

Pure business sense always deals with the bottom line first the customer second. This is how Anet feels they can make the most income so that is why they are doing it this way.

Darkorical.9213:

Imagine if HBO discovered a way to distribute the show that was 100% Pirate proof, and then deceides to run the show a limited number of times over a limited time frame to encourage more viewers. Their viewers are already invested in the show so they figure they’ll make the effort to watch it. Sure enough their viewership would rise AT FIRST. This is because by using this method HBO has stoped new viewers from getting into the show. Why would a new viewer want to jump into the story half way? Can you imagine how hard that would be to follow? Now put yourself into the shoes of the viewers who HAD been watching the show up until that point. What if, for some reason, say holidays or sickness, they missed a few episodes? Now they have the choice of either carrying on knowing they’ll not be able to experiance that part of the show or to stop watching it. Some will inevitablly choose to stop watching. Over time the viewerbase would drop off and in the long term it wpu;d be harmful to the show, Both for HBO and for the viewers.

a way to broadcast their show so nobody could record it and watch it later… thats called the first 50 years of television** . and guess what that did NOTHING BUT GROW people missed an episode they either used their brains and context clues to figure it out or they asked someone, or they waited till the end of the season to see a rerun… and hoped they weren’t watching a soap opera. They didn’t whine and moan because they missed an episode

• 50 years figured by rounding to first broadcast to 1930*** and home recording via vhs in 1980****

---

actually 1928
****while it was possible on some other devices such as betamax, and others dating back to 1968 it was not until the early to mid 80’s when VCRs became popular and standard that people really started using them to record and watch shows later.

By that logic we’ve taken a MASSIVE step backwards. There’s a reason otehr methods of distribution have taken over you know? And i cannot tell you how much I’m praying GW2’s continuing LS won’t be a soap opera but it sure seems like it will!

Galen Grey.4709:

Serenity.6149:

Galen Grey.4709:

Kaaboose.3897:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

‘(Feel free to sub in any Show/Book/Game/Media/Etc. if you don’t like Game Of Thrones!)’

I would like to insert ‘EastEnders’, ‘Days of Our Lives’, ‘All My Children’ or any other soap opera. They were pretty successful back in the day with that model. =)

This is the only reply so far that brought up any positive light on temporary content actually working! I can see the slogans now: Guild Wars 2! The soap opera of MMOS!

But seriously, Claiming temporary content is good because it makes people play it just highlights the point I made about creating a sense of urgancy to make the content seem more compelling. If a developer can’t make a mode that can hold a players interest then maybe it’s not that good to begin with.
I could be wrong since I’ve stoped playing WoW but I’d wager players still do Warsong Gultch and Alterac Valley, Mode that were put in 8 years ago.

Sure but WoW doesnt release new content every 2 weeks. How many players were playing Warsong or Alterac in the first 2 weeks of MoP release?

I think its only natural to expect players to try new content and if you’re releasing content every 2 weeks essentially you have new content all the time!

I mean think about it, if they’ve kept all the content released in game, how likely would it be for you to play in the mad king’s labyrinth today, or tomorrow or the rest of this week?

I think the quoted poster’s main point was more that the interest in the new content is not being driven by the content being compelling, but by its ephemeral nature. It may be new, but overall it hasn’t been very good.

You actually essentially agreed with him/her, by suggesting (true or not) that few players would actually keep playing the old temp content if it had been permanent. If the content was good, or the motivation was adequate, people would continue playing.

You miss understood me, I didnt agree with him because players would not be playing the old content not because it was bad but because they’d be busy playing the new stuff which is available all the time essentially with a 2 week release window. Not just that but as it was previously suggested player fragementation would make the situation worst.

Lets imagine all content is equally good and equally rewarding (that impossible but lets say its the case for the sake of example) People would equally distribute between all this content. So if you wanted to say play crab toss you’d have a player problem because the vast majority are doing the new content (why would you repeat old content when you have equally good new content?) and for the remaining players some are doing one of the 11 or 12 dungeons, 9 fractals, 1800+ dynamic events, WvW, 6 sPvP maps, some 140 Guild missions, the other 10+ mini games etc.. etc..

lets try to put some entirely assumed numbers so its more for illustration purpose that to prove any point per-se. we can have 500 people per map and we have 25 maps so lets say we have a population of 12.5k on a server to work with. let say 80% will do the new stuff (I think thats a fair amount to consider) that leaves 2500 players. lets say they’re equally distributed between PvE, WvW and sPvP that makes it so the PvE player base to engage in old content is 833 which basically means there is less then 1/2 a player to play each of the above. No matter how good content is there is just too much content for the number of players available when you just have constant content being issued.

Now of course like i said at the start this assume all content is equally good which isnt the case of course. In reality the spread will not be even. World boss events will get a much larger percentage of players then crab toss will etc..

I do think that Vayne has a valid point. Even if all the content was left in a lot of it like mini games etc.. will have a tough time to attract the players. Not because it is bad but simply because the server infrastructure cannot handle the numbers to supply all the content there is with players.

At least in that scenario you can put out a post on the forums, your guild, facebook or whatever and say “We’re organinsing a Big Crab toss tournament at X time! Be there!” Or a guild that likes it could have weekly schedualed games. You can work around thoese problems. A player that enjoys something can always start a comunity (guild) that attracts players that enjoy it as well. That’s MMO 101 right there.

Mirta.5029:

cesmode.4257:

Im casual..in that I have only 2-3 hours to play per night, but take my toon, gear, class, experience serious enough where I want to do well.

And i hate living story. Innovative but its doing squat to further this game. Very stagnat right now.

would it be better if instead we had none of the living story and ended up waiting for an expansion for over a year? Expansions content will come any way, whether living story is there or not.

No but it would be better if these small updates stayed. You are defending small updates not temporary content.

tigirius.9014:

I love your posts Kaaboose because they are always spot on with what the problems are in the mmo’s (save for the farming one) this time you’ve come close to describing correctly what’s happening here but there’s something wrong with the analogy. Perhaps it’s the use of TV shows or IPs.

I’ve played about 15 mmo’s in my time and one thing always presented itself as a problem. Subscription mmo’s used dirty tactics to keep people subscribed for longer than they should have been to complete content. They knew that people who worked for a living wouldn’t have time to spend all day on the game to complete things like reputation maxing and progressing thru every dungeon. So they extended it as long as they possibly could. This has been a theme for many years now and has happened in just about every sub mmo out there. The reason? More money.

The temporary content and how it’s being presented in GW2 is the same dirty trick but on the opposite scale. Since there isn’t a sub involved they’ve resorted to gambling tactics with boxes bought from the store, cosmetic items only available from the store, and content that will vanish almost entirely upon completion. Further in order to prevent people from experiencing the content with any kind of solo interest they’ve forced people to group in order to see the dungeons from each and every event by placing them into the Fractals system.

In my view, this is just 1 step closer to their November announcement that people who wish to see new content will be required to have agony resistance including any of the content dungeons we’re seeing in the temporary LS uploads.

These tactics are neither clever or welcomed and will most likely alienate whoever is left lingering waiting for the game to be a positive example in the mmo market. It’s really quite tragic that they can’t think of a better way other than trickery to keep people playing longer.

Also let me be clear I’m not talking about the holiday events including the Dragon event because those to me are holidays, however seeing holidays as anything other than a secondary concern for the game is not something those of us wishing to see a more permanent open world experience monthly would like. Holidays should be the separate small team working on non-world impacting side diversions, the real content should have a larger team and every bit of the dungeons that come out for the events should be translated into the personal story herald (a new herald) so that it will scale with the number of players invited to the dungeon but can be completed solo, and the items should be in game only there should be no more of this cosmetic event items only available via the store for everything. That would alleviate alot of the problems we’re seeing with this development.

Kaaboose.3897:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

‘(Feel free to sub in any Show/Book/Game/Media/Etc. if you don’t like Game Of Thrones!)’

I would like to insert ‘EastEnders’, ‘Days of Our Lives’, ‘All My Children’ or any other soap opera. They were pretty successful back in the day with that model. =)

This is the only reply so far that brought up any positive light on temporary content actually working! I can see the slogans now: Guild Wars 2! The soap opera of MMOS!

But seriously, Claiming temporary content is good because it makes people play it just highlights the point I made about creating a sense of urgancy to make the content seem more compelling. If a developer can’t make a mode that can hold a players interest then maybe it’s not that good to begin with.
I could be wrong since I’ve stoped playing WoW but I’d wager players still do Warsong Gultch and Alterac Valley, Mode that were put in 8 years ago.

I’m well awear of all of this, and that’s why I brought up the HBO Game of Thrones analogy. It’ll work well in the short term, but alinante everybody in the long. Thanks for the post. And your middle ground is compeltely feasible.

Nick.6972:

WoodenPotatoes just made a video on this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwjqkE8Ncyg

He did, and he pretty much says exactly the same thing I did, Right down to the anime filler analogy (Like a cartoon.)

Fyrebrand.4859:

The Talcmaster.7391:

Fun on someone else’s schedule is not fun

Pretty much my favourite comment out of this whole thread, and really the most pertinent point. The people who are in support of temporary content seem to be comprised of:
a) those who don’t seem to realize you can introduce new content every two weeks without destroying old content every two weeks
b) those who can afford to play regularly/often, clear content in a timely fashion on a regular basis, and don’t give a whit for other people or alternate play styles

What does it mean, when you say you like “temporary” content? All it means is “When I, personally, am through with it, I want it removed from the game so no one else can go in there.” It doesn’t have to mean anything about the quality or release schedule; all it refers to is the fact that the content ANet created gets tossed in the trash bin after a couple weeks. How does that make the game better? How does that contribute to a “living story”?

I have been taking a break from GW2 since Flame and Frost concluded. I want to come back to the game, but I’m still looking for that dynamite excuse to log in again. I’ve been glancing at the website for the past while, and each of the past few updates sounded pretty cool, but you know what? The sheer fact that there is an expiration date on the content does nothing but irritate me, and as soon as each installment passes so does its power to serve as an attraction.

“Oh, but we defeated the Molten Alliance, so it doesn’t make sense to go back and do that dungeon!” Pfffft, baloney. You know darn well this game (and most other MMOs) are full of anachronisms like that — and it’s not like we don’t already have the Fractals of the Mists to satisfy all your lore-fixing time travel needs.

If GW2 actually had a dynamic, episodic nature to it, where the world and the story progressed every couple of weeks, that would really make me get in there and keep up with current events. But from the looks of things, the Tyria I come back to will be the same place as when I left. The Molten Alliance didn’t exist before Flame and Frost, and they really left no permanent impact after they were gone. Ultimately, it was all surface-level stuff, and none of it mattered.

Whatever happened to the ACTUAL story of the game? Aren’t there a bunch of dragons supposedly wreaking havoc on Tyria, right now? How many times do we have to kill Zhaitan before we REALLY kill Zhaitan? Ever thought of adding a new chapter to the Personal Story quest every couple of weeks? That would really be something.

I’ve stated before I’d rather an exapnsion but I would be more then happy to deal with small episodic updates of this nature. Thanks for the post, Very well written and coveres the points I have the most issues with as well.

Fairymore.8609:

I…I think we should see other people Anet…

It’s not you, It’s me.