Guild Wars 2

Galen Grey.4709:

Tachenon.5270:

Krosslite.1950:

Tachenon.5270:

They will run out of things to do more quickly if there are fewer things to do (due to, for example, temporary content)

Hmmmm… This statement makes no sense. “fewer things to do” does not equate to temporary content.
Fewer things to do means not much content. We can look it up in the dictionary if you like.

Actually new content every two weeks be it temporary or permanent is MORE content. Means people have a lot to do.

How long does it take you to work through these living story installments? Does it take you a week? Two weeks? A month? How long? What do you do when you’re finished with the new temporary content? Do you keep doing it over and over? Do you just stop playing until the next batch of content comes along? Do you go back and do old content?

If, by some miracle, you go back and do old content while you’re waiting for new content, wouldn’t it be nice to have more old content to choose from, while you’re waiting for that new content?

honestly the whole two weeks and I rarely finish it all. I play every day about 2-5hrs each time and a collective 10 – 12 hrs in the weekend. about 4 hrs of that is spent on guild missions though and sometimes I take a break from the living story too and level one of my alts. The bulk of the time 90% of it is spend on it though.

Sure it would be nice to have more old content to choose from but if you’re saying you finish everything in less then the two weeks its meant for wouldnt you have already completed the old content anyway?

I don’t always ‘finish’ the new content, but often I am ‘finished’ with it long before it’s taken away. I didn’t, for example, finish bashing the pinatas or burning the effigies. I don’t mind that kind of content being temporary; heck, I wouldn’t mind if that kind of ‘content’ didn’t exist.

Let’s look at this latest round of new content. (I generally play 3-4 hours a day, sometimes more, sometimes less.)

I got 40 of the sky crystals. 42, actually. Over the course of three days. Done with that.
I competed in the race thing maybe five times. Never came in 1st. Don’t care.
I talked to various NPCs. Done with that.
I pilfered enough parachutes to get the achievement, along with some recipes. Done with that, apart from grabbing one if it’s close by, for the recipes.
I fought a bunch of champs and vets. Whatever.
I delivered one load of whatever it was the dolyak was carrying. Pfft. Done with that.
I found a zephyr basket or whatever it was in the bandit hideout in Queensdale. Happened to be there anyway. Yay.
I mined quartz and have been taking it to the commune sites – once a day. Woo hoo.
I did all the belching stuff.

I think I’m at 12/16 on the achievements. I’ll probably go ahead and find more of those basket things just to reach 16/16 even though I don’t really want to redo the jumping puzzles. But I’d rather do that than repeat that race thing over and over and over.

Other than that, I’m pretty much finished with this batch of content. (Some of my guildies have been doing this stuff. I think one had the mini ship thing on the first day. Most of them, however, aren’t even bothering with it. A lot of them just ignore the living story except for the parts they happen to encounter along the way – like when we’d be running to our next objective and I’d swerve to the side and trigger a hologram.)

Meanwhile, I’ve been playing the rest of the game. That old stuff no one wants to do anymore. The permanent stuff. At least, the permanent stuff that I like doing. Which does not include dungeons (not against dungeons, just don’t like the GW2 variety) or fractals or spvp or wvw. So pretty much all I’m doing is map completions and DEs and personal story missions (mostly while teaming with guildies) in the same old zones that’s been there since launch. That’s primarily what’s keeping me here. I’m not entirely burned out on the old zones just quite yet, but I’m getting there. I’m ripe and ready for an “expansion’s worth of content”, preferably all at once, and I’m ready for it right about now.

Based on what’s been delivered thus far, this living story/temporary content is not going to hold me. Not for much longer. And when I’m gone, and others like me are gone, who are you pro-temp guys going to argue with here on the forums?

/e Karl Malden: “What will you do? What will you do?”

(edited to add belching – whee)

I missed the events after the karka, dont know where to start, just know theres some crystals to take on new map more than that dont know what to do.

Galen Grey.4709:

Vayne.8563:

For those who say people are going to leave the game…it means zero. Nothing.

Well zero is probably a bit harsh, I am sure Arenanet dont want to loose people as much as possible but that being said you do have a point that Arenanet also know some people leaving the game is inevitable and by stating you’re just good as gone you’re just gonna weaken your argument as you’re essentially saying this game does not serve my playstyle which in turn will result in developers focusing more to strengthen the content thats retaining players which is probably at the other end of the spectrum.

Simple speaking I quit threads harm more then they help. I hope no one feels by threating to quit they’re gonna blackmail game designer into doing what those people want from the game. It wouldnt even be physically possible even if it did work because it will take months to develop something new by which time either the player was serious and would have long quit or they were bluffing which would be pointless anyway.

When I say it means zero, is that it means zero. In other words, there is nothing that Anet can do that will prevent some people from leaving the game. So the fact that some people are leaving the game is meaningless.

Some people left the game over dailies. It’s true. I know someone who left the game, because dailies were stressing them out. It wasn’t fun for them. Did it mean something? Not if it kept a hundred times that number of people in the game.

When I say that it means zero that someone is leaving the game over a decision Anet has made is true…because it has no context and without context it’s meaningless.

A lot of people, a whole lot of people, left the game over the Fractals and ascended gear…but I’m convinced the Fractals helped save the game too.

It’s not meaningless that people are leaving…but each individual post about someone saying they’re leaving over a specific change is actually meaningless without knowing how many people are staying in the game, or even coming to the game because of that change.

Aeolus.3615:

I missed the events after the karka, dont know where to start, just know theres some crystals to take on new map more than that dont know what to do.

You should have had a letter in your mail that tells you where to find the new content. There’s an NPC on the dock in LA that will take you to the new area. By talking to NPCs there as you go, you’ll start solving the puzzle of what to do. Basically you find out by exploring.

If you really hate exploring, you can go to www.dulfy.net who has a ton of guides on exactly what to do.

Galen Grey.4709:

Edenwolf.6328:

I’m harmed, I mean I come back after a few months break, and I can’t even buy or work for the Sclerite Karka Shell. I want it bad, I’m quite disappointed and certainly not excited to wait around till next year, or perhaps never to get it :S

You’re disappointed sure but not harmed. You’re perfectly fine without the karka shell. It might be a good idea to keep an eye on whats going on while on break from the game.

Oh I’m harmed, it stings every time when I walk by a necro with the shell on, knowing I won’t be able to earn one for my own, kitten temporary content, it goes against the principles of an MMO.

Edenwolf.6328:

Galen Grey.4709:

Edenwolf.6328:

I’m harmed, I mean I come back after a few months break, and I can’t even buy or work for the Sclerite Karka Shell. I want it bad, I’m quite disappointed and certainly not excited to wait around till next year, or perhaps never to get it :S

You’re disappointed sure but not harmed. You’re perfectly fine without the karka shell. It might be a good idea to keep an eye on whats going on while on break from the game.

Oh I’m harmed, it stings every time when I walk by a necro with the shell on, knowing I won’t be able to earn one for my own, kitten temporary content, it goes against the principles of an MMO.

No it doesn’t go against the principles of an MMO. Lots of MMOs have rewards for specific events that you can’t get again. Rift had them. It goes against something you want, which has nothing to do with the principles of MMOs.

And there’ll be more, different stuff later on the piece, as time goes on that will look awesome too. Maybe something you’ll get that no one else will get.

Because to me, nothing ruins an MMO more than everyone wearing the same thing. And that’s how it was six months into Rift.

Tachenon.5270:

…

Actually a lot of what I did is close to what you did my only difference is I spend a lot more time in the race, I find it addictive. Even manage to get first place.

Anyhow nothing wrong with stopping before doing all the content, in fact it would be good if otherscould walk away from stuff before it gets boring for them too. The only thing I would be a bit against is to claim there is just 5 days of content in the update because of a conscious decision to stop before doing it all. That wouldnt be accurate.

Like you I am not much into dungeons or pvp and I spend my time in the open world as well. The world is huge and there is a lot of events. 800 hrs in and there are zones I havent even played yet. Then there alts to level up. Is it that bad to play other older content for 7,8 days between LS releases?

There is still so much of the map undiscovered! Anet has a ton of room to play with on the map, and as others have said, I bet they’re working on larger content releases, while puttin out theses smaller like the recent bazaar. I really am looking forward to see how this LS is gonna play out. I mean we still get Aetherblades still attacking during the bazaar, so it’ll be really interesting.

Also does this LS go off a book or some type of publication, or are they just making stuff up as we go?

Nick.6972:

The fact that I did 16/16 Bazaar Achievements in less than 3 days doesn’t help either.
Hell, I’m not even rushing or using any guide, everything’s too simplistic.
And what should I do now? Wait another week till I get other 5 hour content update?
How about adding new HARD permanent repeatable dungeons?
Is it too hard to create a decent hard content for players that want an actual challenge? Is 1% Hardcore 99% Casual content division unfair?

As has been established elsewhere the casual player is between 30 -60 years of age and has the most disposable income while the average age of a hardcore player is 20 years of age has has the least amount of disposable income.
If you ran a business which group would you target?
Most would answer those with the most money to throw away.
That is what Anet has done… so get use to it, or learn to be a casual player soon then later. Because trust me unless you die at 25 you will become one.

EDIT: Real Live always wins. A pretty woman becomes more important then a game. Then a job that pays enough to give you a disposable income comes into play. Then kids who start to not only suck up that income but your remaining time. As it is gamers that have been around for around twenty years is no longer the oddity but the norm. Anet knows this. That is why this game is causal player centric.

1%. Just 1%. Is that too much? Would that make you cry?
As for the age and money.
I’ve never played WoW, but I’m sure back when it was akittens prime, it wasn’t aimed at 50 year olds.

Nick.6972:

1%. Just 1%. Is that too much? Would that make you cry?
As for the age and money.
I’ve never played WoW, but I’m sure back when it was akittens prime, it wasn’t aimed at 50 year olds.

If memory servers me correctly it was aimed at first for players between 19 and 28. Then they started to market it for teens and preteens; which caused most of the original targeted users to leave the game in mass. That was about 2006 when that happened.
It was released 11/2004. So that would make those original targeted users between 29 and 38 today many of which still play MMOs.
We are not looking at yesterday’s market share, but today’s. So is Anet.

Galen Grey.4709:

Is it that bad to play other older content for 7,8 days between LS releases?

No, I’m all for playing older content. As I’ve said, it’s the older content in GW2 that’s keeping me here. I am not against new content. I am not against new content every two weeks. I am, as I’ve said, against non-seasonal temporary content because it comes and goes and therefore does not become additional older content. Therefore, the amount of older content available to do between these rounds of new content is not increasing. I believe this is bad for the game.

There is not much more to do here today (between living story episodes) than there was at launch. Fractals, if you like that. How many different ‘dungeons’ are there in the fractals? Have any been added? Then there’s Southsun Cove, if you like the events there, which I don’t, but that’s beside the point. What else? The aetherblade jumping puzzle, if you like that. Oh, and those DEs that were added so early on that no one noticed they were new and therefore didn’t comment on their newness.

Anything else? Besides balancing and tweaking?

The emphasis on temporary content is, in my opinion, keeping the core game in stasis. Now, before someone feels obliged to point out (yet again) that the devs have said that they intend to add more permanent content along with the continuing delivery of temporary content and have four teams working on all this stuff stuff stuffy stuff, I’ll say this: yes, of course. Devs say a lot of things. A Cryptic dev once said, and I quote, “And I will continue to remind you that nothing said before launch, or even now, is a ‘promise’ and to continue to construe it as such is just playing to human nature.” And so, as far as I am concerned, anything a game developer says (not just anet – all of them, everywhere, in every game), particularly in regard to what may be in the works, amounts to little more than hearsay and rumor mongering until it actually appears in the game. Be that as it may, I maintain that they should not be adding some permanent content along with the temporary content, I say it should all be permanent content, and it should all be content with substance, something that will stick to our ribs, so to speak, and not more spam the F button junk that is the MMO equivalent of potato chips and candy bars.

So. We will see what we will see, and we will see it when we see it. See?

Krosslite.1950:

Nick.6972:

1%. Just 1%. Is that too much? Would that make you cry?
As for the age and money.
I’ve never played WoW, but I’m sure back when it was akittens prime, it wasn’t aimed at 50 year olds.

If memory servers me correctly it was aimed at first for players between 19 and 28. Then they started to market it for teens and preteens; which caused most of the original targeted users to leave the game in mass. That was about 2006 when that happened.
It was released 11/2004. So that would make those original targeted users between 29 and 38 today many of which still play MMOs.
We are not looking at yesterday’s market share, but today’s. So is Anet.

What about those who play casually and who dislike easy facerollable content?

Nick.6972:

Krosslite.1950:

Nick.6972:

1%. Just 1%. Is that too much? Would that make you cry?
As for the age and money.
I’ve never played WoW, but I’m sure back when it was akittens prime, it wasn’t aimed at 50 year olds.

If memory servers me correctly it was aimed at first for players between 19 and 28. Then they started to market it for teens and preteens; which caused most of the original targeted users to leave the game in mass. That was about 2006 when that happened.
It was released 11/2004. So that would make those original targeted users between 29 and 38 today many of which still play MMOs.
We are not looking at yesterday’s market share, but today’s. So is Anet.

What about those who play casually and who dislike easy facerollable content?

That is one Anet will have to answer.

Tachenon.5270:

Galen Grey.4709:

Is it that bad to play other older content for 7,8 days between LS releases?

No, I’m all for playing older content. As I’ve said, it’s the older content in GW2 that’s keeping me here. I am not against new content. I am not against new content every two weeks. I am, as I’ve said, against non-seasonal temporary content because it comes and goes and therefore does not become additional older content. Therefore, the amount of older content available to do between these rounds of new content is not increasing. I believe this is bad for the game.

There is not much more to do here today (between living story episodes) than there was at launch. Fractals, if you like that. How many different ‘dungeons’ are there in the fractals? Have any been added? Then there’s Southsun Cove, if you like the events there, which I don’t, but that’s beside the point. What else? The aetherblade jumping puzzle, if you like that. Oh, and those DEs that were added so early on that no one noticed they were new and therefore didn’t comment on their newness.

Anything else? Besides balancing and tweaking?

The emphasis on temporary content is, in my opinion, keeping the core game in stasis. Now, before someone feels obliged to point out (yet again) that the devs have said that they intend to add more permanent content along with the continuing delivery of temporary content and have four teams working on all this stuff stuff stuffy stuff, I’ll say this: yes, of course. Devs say a lot of things. A Cryptic dev once said, and I quote, “And I will continue to remind you that nothing said before launch, or even now, is a ‘promise’ and to continue to construe it as such is just playing to human nature.” And so, as far as I am concerned, anything a game developer says (not just anet – all of them, everywhere, in every game), particularly in regard to what may be in the works, amounts to little more than hearsay and rumor mongering until it actually appears in the game. Be that as it may, I maintain that they should not be adding some permanent content along with the temporary content, I say it should all be permanent content, and it should all be content with substance, something that will stick to our ribs, so to speak, and not more spam the F button junk that is the MMO equivalent of potato chips and candy bars.

So. We will see what we will see, and we will see it when we see it. See?

I… see.
Sums up how I feel pretty nicely!

Tachenon.5270:

Galen Grey.4709:

Is it that bad to play other older content for 7,8 days between LS releases?

No, I’m all for playing older content. As I’ve said, it’s the older content in GW2 that’s keeping me here. I am not against new content. I am not against new content every two weeks. I am, as I’ve said, against non-seasonal temporary content because it comes and goes and therefore does not become additional older content. Therefore, the amount of older content available to do between these rounds of new content is not increasing. I believe this is bad for the game.

There is not much more to do here today (between living story episodes) than there was at launch. Fractals, if you like that. How many different ‘dungeons’ are there in the fractals? Have any been added? Then there’s Southsun Cove, if you like the events there, which I don’t, but that’s beside the point. What else? The aetherblade jumping puzzle, if you like that. Oh, and those DEs that were added so early on that no one noticed they were new and therefore didn’t comment on their newness.

Anything else? Besides balancing and tweaking?

The emphasis on temporary content is, in my opinion, keeping the core game in stasis. Now, before someone feels obliged to point out (yet again) that the devs have said that they intend to add more permanent content along with the continuing delivery of temporary content and have four teams working on all this stuff stuff stuffy stuff, I’ll say this: yes, of course. Devs say a lot of things. A Cryptic dev once said, and I quote, “And I will continue to remind you that nothing said before launch, or even now, is a ‘promise’ and to continue to construe it as such is just playing to human nature.” And so, as far as I am concerned, anything a game developer says (not just anet – all of them, everywhere, in every game), particularly in regard to what may be in the works, amounts to little more than hearsay and rumor mongering until it actually appears in the game. Be that as it may, I maintain that they should not be adding some permanent content along with the temporary content, I say it should all be permanent content, and it should all be content with substance, something that will stick to our ribs, so to speak, and not more spam the F button junk that is the MMO equivalent of potato chips and candy bars.

So. We will see what we will see, and we will see it when we see it. See?

This statement is flawed beyond belief.
1) comparing Cryptic to Arenanet is ridiculous. The only reason Cryptic still exists is due to Perfect World .. an established F2P company bought them.
2) there is going to be new PERMANENT content added. I don’t care if it is 2 weeks from now or 2 months. it is better then any another MMO has done and that includes StarTrek: Online (since you want to bring Cryptic into this)

Which explains OPs support since it has already been established he has no concept of how this industry works

Sorry but when you have a legitimate response please feel free to supply one

EDIT: Who cares if they add permanent when they add a story element that goes away. This is how it is going to be. It is working for them and they are making money. That is the driving force of any company. “Does it make us money?” if the answer is yes .. you do it. If the answer is no you change what you are doing till you get a yes.
Hey guess what Anet has done they have changed the rules and have a “yes” answer.
So as I have said before. Sit back and enjoy the ride. We didn’t make the roller coaster we just CHOOSE to sit in it.

Krosslite.1950:

Tachenon.5270:

Galen Grey.4709:

Is it that bad to play other older content for 7,8 days between LS releases?

No, I’m all for playing older content. As I’ve said, it’s the older content in GW2 that’s keeping me here. I am not against new content. I am not against new content every two weeks. I am, as I’ve said, against non-seasonal temporary content because it comes and goes and therefore does not become additional older content. Therefore, the amount of older content available to do between these rounds of new content is not increasing. I believe this is bad for the game.

There is not much more to do here today (between living story episodes) than there was at launch. Fractals, if you like that. How many different ‘dungeons’ are there in the fractals? Have any been added? Then there’s Southsun Cove, if you like the events there, which I don’t, but that’s beside the point. What else? The aetherblade jumping puzzle, if you like that. Oh, and those DEs that were added so early on that no one noticed they were new and therefore didn’t comment on their newness.

Anything else? Besides balancing and tweaking?

The emphasis on temporary content is, in my opinion, keeping the core game in stasis. Now, before someone feels obliged to point out (yet again) that the devs have said that they intend to add more permanent content along with the continuing delivery of temporary content and have four teams working on all this stuff stuff stuffy stuff, I’ll say this: yes, of course. Devs say a lot of things. A Cryptic dev once said, and I quote, “And I will continue to remind you that nothing said before launch, or even now, is a ‘promise’ and to continue to construe it as such is just playing to human nature.” And so, as far as I am concerned, anything a game developer says (not just anet – all of them, everywhere, in every game), particularly in regard to what may be in the works, amounts to little more than hearsay and rumor mongering until it actually appears in the game. Be that as it may, I maintain that they should not be adding some permanent content along with the temporary content, I say it should all be permanent content, and it should all be content with substance, something that will stick to our ribs, so to speak, and not more spam the F button junk that is the MMO equivalent of potato chips and candy bars.

So. We will see what we will see, and we will see it when we see it. See?

This statement is flawed beyond belief.
1) comparing Cryptic to Arenanet is ridiculous. The only reason Cryptic still exists is due to Perfect World .. an established F2P company bought them.
2) there is going to be new PERMANENT content added. I don’t care if it is 2 weeks from now or 2 months. it is better then any another MMO has done and that includes StarTrek: Online (since you want to bring Cryptic into this)

Which explains OPs support since it has already been established he has no concept of how this industry works

Sorry but when you have a legitimate response please feel free to supply one

EDIT: Who cares if they add permanent when they add a story element that goes away. This is how it is going to be. It is working for them and they are making money. That is the driving force of any company. “Does it make us money?” if the answer is yes .. you do it. If the answer is no you change what you are doing till you get a yes.
Hey guess what Anet has done they have changed the rules and have a “yes” answer.
So as I have said before. Sit back and enjoy the ride. We didn’t make the roller coaster we just CHOOSE to sit in it.

C’mon man, He mentioned Crytic to point out why you should take what game Dev’s say with a grain of salt.
And I while I’m not expert I still am waiting for somone, ANYONE, on this thread to explain to me how a business modle that alienates new and returning players is going to work in the long run.
Unlike a roller coaster we can jump off at any time.

Me like< Me quggan!

Kaaboose.3897:

And I while I’m not expert I still am waiting for somone, ANYONE, on this thread to explain to me how a business modle that alienates new and returning players is going to work in the long run.

Such a “modle” is not going to work. Fortunately, GW2 is not based on such a “modle”.

Kaaboose.3897:

C’mon man, He mentioned Crytic to point out why you should take what game Dev’s say with a grain of salt.
And I while I’m not expert I still am waiting for someone, ANYONE, on this thread to explain to me how a business model that alienates new and returning players is going to work in the long run.
Unlike a roller coaster we can jump off at any time.

That’s just the point. Only Anet has this info. All we are in the consumer of this product.
This is what tells them they will make money otherwise they would not being doing it. Those with a business back ground can speculate, but do we have the answer? No.
Those without a business background can only make assumptions depending on how many years they have as a consumer of these products.
The more years you have as an end-user the less you are assuming and the more you a speculating from first hand experience.

So folks need to make these judgements on their own. I have both a business back ground and decades of being an end-user.
Does this mean I have all the answers? No, because I do not work for Anet.
The only person on this thread that can say that is Colin and he has already given up his views that is till tomorrow when he has his Twitch TV broadcast.

Vayne.8563:

People are simply too focused on dungeons. I don’t really think that was ever Anet’s focus, not even in Guild Wars 1. They’re focused more on the world. When they released War in Kryta in Guild Wars 1 it wasn’t a dungeon. Nor was any of the other new content after Eye of the North came out.

So you ignore the meta event and other new events, the new jumping puzzle, the moa racing and the new drinking game all of which are staying. You ignore that Cragstead has indeed changed and so has Southsun (Southsun has actually changed quite a lot).

You even ignore the guild missions that have changed those areas an added content.

And the new PvP map.

You can say the game hasn’t changed, but what you’re really saying is there hasn’t been a permanent DUNGEON.

That’s only one type of change. And I think you’d be very surprised at how few people actually focus on dungeons out of the entire playerbase, just as many who raid on other games doesn’t see how few people by percentage actually like raiding.

A lot of these discussions are just running in circles, but why not continue it

First let me level set….I am in no way saying ArenaNet is wrong. Whether or not they are ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ will be proven out by their longevity. I never said that game hasn’t changed. I am only pointing out what type of content I would personally like to see.

I don’t speak for every player. I speak for me. Do I think ArenaNet should change the game to suit what only I want? Of course not. But the whole purpose of these forums is for each player to say what they want individually and hope that the entirety of opinions have a chance to drive future game design.

So yes…I am focused on dungeons. And you are right that I ignored guild missions which I haven’t had a chance to experience. But you can’t say I’m too focused on dungeons….just as much as I can’t tell you that you are too focused on enjoying temporary content. We each enjoy what we enjoy and that is what makes us individual players. The content that I personally enjoy most in these games is typically dungeons or open world content that tells an overarching story. Something that makes me feel like I am part of a bigger mission. That I am part of a bigger movement. So I would personally like to see more of that type of content stay around so that I have a longer chance to experience it….and experience it more than once.

One last piece of advice. Another game that I’ve played some is League of Legends. The game designers ended up adding a significant amount of PvE content in a patch after they surprisingly discovered that a significant portion of their player base was not interested PvP. So I would hesitate to state with certainty which types of players make up the majority…..only ArenaNet has enough information in hand to know that.

AntiGw.9367:

Kaaboose.3897:

And I while I’m not expert I still am waiting for somone, ANYONE, on this thread to explain to me how a business modle that alienates new and returning players is going to work in the long run.

Such a “modle” is not going to work. Fortunately, GW2 is not based on such a “modle”.

Bad spelling aside, would you care to explain?

I don’t think I have much else to say in this entire discussion so I’ll leave with this.

As I stated in my previous post, the purpose of these forums is to allow each player to express their opinion of the content and allow the community to bounce ideas off of each other. These posts should open our eyes to how other players experience the game and allow ArenaNet to get insight into what motivates a number of their customers. An ideal forum discussion should allow those insights to happen. We should all feel free to express what we want but welcome the opinions of those that disagree. Unfortunately there are some types of responses that can steer the discussion in the wrong direction and a number of those are happening here.

First of all, no matter how much you like or dislike something, game design is not really a ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ kinda thing. I may not enjoy a particular design but there’s a good chance another player loves it. So as much as I may think I know what most players want…..I really have no clue. So using absolute phrases like “ArenaNet is failing”, “Player X is just wrong”, etc. doesn’t really mean anything. And if you are going to say things like “this design can’t succeed” or “this design is keeping the player base up” then you should also provide your scientific study and data. Otherwise, stick with phrases like “this design won’t succeed in keeping me interested.”

Secondly, telling the players that ArenaNet is going to make the decisions that get them the most money is just as useful as saying “this post is going to appear on the ArenaNet forums when I hit the reply button.” It’s completely accurate but adds nothing to the discussion. ArenaNet will make decisions in their best interest. But the entire reason they have these forums is to allow players to make suggestions and then implement the ones they find will suit them.

In the spirit of that, I’ll sum up my entire thought on this subject. I love story driven content. Story-driven content appears to be the bulk of what has been temporary. I would love to have more time to do that type of content and the ability to do it more than once.

We’ve heard recent rumblings from ArenaNet that they are working on this sort of thing as we speak. Here is me saying I can’t wait to see what they have.

Krosslite.1950:

Nick.6972:

The fact that I did 16/16 Bazaar Achievements in less than 3 days doesn’t help either.
Hell, I’m not even rushing or using any guide, everything’s too simplistic.
And what should I do now? Wait another week till I get other 5 hour content update?
How about adding new HARD permanent repeatable dungeons?
Is it too hard to create a decent hard content for players that want an actual challenge? Is 1% Hardcore 99% Casual content division unfair?

As has been established elsewhere the casual player is between 30 -60 years of age and has the most disposable income while the average age of a hardcore player is 20 years of age has has the least amount of disposable income.
If you ran a business which group would you target?
Most would answer those with the most money to throw away.
That is what Anet has done… so get use to it, or learn to be a casual player soon then later. Because trust me unless you die at 25 you will become one.

EDIT: Real Live always wins. A pretty woman becomes more important then a game. Then a job that pays enough to give you a disposable income comes into play. Then kids who start to not only suck up that income but your remaining time. As it is gamers that have been around for around twenty years is no longer the oddity but the norm. Anet knows this. That is why this game is causal player centric.

I’m looking for it, and I can’t find your “claim” established anywhere. More propaganda.

Vayne.8563:

Tons of people never played it in the first place, because it didn’t have jumping.

raises hand Me. It was one of the reasons I never played GW (the others being I didn’t like the instancing and just didn’t like the art style or lore very much).

Coming off the back of City of Heroes, where you could fricken’ fly and fight at the same time, I found the vertically challenged nature of GW to be almost a joke.

Not that I enjoy jumping puzzles all that much myself, but I know lots of people who do.

Kaaboose.3897:

AntiGw.9367:

Kaaboose.3897:

And I while I’m not expert I still am waiting for somone, ANYONE, on this thread to explain to me how a business modle that alienates new and returning players is going to work in the long run.

Such a “modle” is not going to work. Fortunately, GW2 is not based on such a “modle”.

Bad spelling aside, would you care to explain?

GW2 is based on a model where some people will like it, and some won’t. Arena.net knows how to balance it.

As for the bad spelling, you are paying so little attention to making any of your posts readable, that it looks like you are paying as little attention to the content of the post itself. After reading a zillion of them, I can’t find any of value.

Aramean.2354:

Vayne.8563:

People are simply too focused on dungeons. I don’t really think that was ever Anet’s focus, not even in Guild Wars 1. They’re focused more on the world. When they released War in Kryta in Guild Wars 1 it wasn’t a dungeon. Nor was any of the other new content after Eye of the North came out.

So you ignore the meta event and other new events, the new jumping puzzle, the moa racing and the new drinking game all of which are staying. You ignore that Cragstead has indeed changed and so has Southsun (Southsun has actually changed quite a lot).

You even ignore the guild missions that have changed those areas an added content.

And the new PvP map.

You can say the game hasn’t changed, but what you’re really saying is there hasn’t been a permanent DUNGEON.

That’s only one type of change. And I think you’d be very surprised at how few people actually focus on dungeons out of the entire playerbase, just as many who raid on other games doesn’t see how few people by percentage actually like raiding.

A lot of these discussions are just running in circles, but why not continue it

First let me level set….I am in no way saying ArenaNet is wrong. Whether or not they are ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ will be proven out by their longevity. I never said that game hasn’t changed. I am only pointing out what type of content I would personally like to see.

I don’t speak for every player. I speak for me. Do I think ArenaNet should change the game to suit what only I want? Of course not. But the whole purpose of these forums is for each player to say what they want individually and hope that the entirety of opinions have a chance to drive future game design.

So yes…I am focused on dungeons. And you are right that I ignored guild missions which I haven’t had a chance to experience. But you can’t say I’m too focused on dungeons….just as much as I can’t tell you that you are too focused on enjoying temporary content. We each enjoy what we enjoy and that is what makes us individual players. The content that I personally enjoy most in these games is typically dungeons or open world content that tells an overarching story. Something that makes me feel like I am part of a bigger mission. That I am part of a bigger movement. So I would personally like to see more of that type of content stay around so that I have a longer chance to experience it….and experience it more than once.

One last piece of advice. Another game that I’ve played some is League of Legends. The game designers ended up adding a significant amount of PvE content in a patch after they surprisingly discovered that a significant portion of their player base was not interested PvP. So I would hesitate to state with certainty which types of players make up the majority…..only ArenaNet has enough information in hand to know that.

I can tell you you’re too focused on dungeons. Why? Because Anet has said their focus is a living world. And a living world isn’t really about instances it’s about the open world. It was always going to be their focus since the days when they said the game is centered around events.

Now, there are a lot of very good games out there that center on dungeons and Anet wanted to do something different. It’s never going to be their focus.

So at best you’ll be playing part of a game that Anet isn’t focused on. Which isn’t a bad thing, but it’s like I tell people who played Guild Wars 1 who wanted to jump…and they couldn’t. The game really isn’t being designed around it.

Sure there are some fun dungeons in the game, but I think it’s pretty obvious that this game isn’t being designed around dungeons. It’s pretty obvious other games are being designed around them.

That’s what I mean when I say you’re too focused on them. You have a right to like anything you want…but to come and judge a game that was never going to be focused around dungeons for not having more of them, would be like me going to see a Star Wars moving and complaining there aren’t enough love scenes.

It’s not really Anet’s focus and I doubt it will become Anet’s focus any time in the near future.

AntiGw.9367:

Kaaboose.3897:

AntiGw.9367:

Kaaboose.3897:

And I while I’m not expert I still am waiting for somone, ANYONE, on this thread to explain to me how a business modle that alienates new and returning players is going to work in the long run.

Such a “modle” is not going to work. Fortunately, GW2 is not based on such a “modle”.

Bad spelling aside, would you care to explain?

GW2 is based on a model where some people will like it, and some won’t. Arena.net knows how to balance it.

As for the bad spelling, you are paying so little attention to making any of your posts readable, that it looks like you are paying as little attention to the content of the post itself. After reading a zillion of them, I can’t find any of value.

We’ll have to agree to disagree there, If there’s one thing Anet has demostrated so far it’s their lack of ability to find a comfortable balance of anything in their game for me.

Kaaboose.3897:

AntiGw.9367:

Kaaboose.3897:

AntiGw.9367:

Kaaboose.3897:

And I while I’m not expert I still am waiting for somone, ANYONE, on this thread to explain to me how a business modle that alienates new and returning players is going to work in the long run.

Such a “modle” is not going to work. Fortunately, GW2 is not based on such a “modle”.

Bad spelling aside, would you care to explain?

GW2 is based on a model where some people will like it, and some won’t. Arena.net knows how to balance it.

As for the bad spelling, you are paying so little attention to making any of your posts readable, that it looks like you are paying as little attention to the content of the post itself. After reading a zillion of them, I can’t find any of value.

We’ll have to agree to disagree there, If there’s one thing Anet has demostrated so far it’s their lack of ability to find a comfortable balance of anything in their game for me.

There’s nothing to disagree with then. He’s saying some people like it and some people won’t. He and I like it….you apparently don’t.

You’ve made his point.

killcannon.2576:

Krosslite.1950:

Nick.6972:

The fact that I did 16/16 Bazaar Achievements in less than 3 days doesn’t help either.
Hell, I’m not even rushing or using any guide, everything’s too simplistic.
And what should I do now? Wait another week till I get other 5 hour content update?
How about adding new HARD permanent repeatable dungeons?
Is it too hard to create a decent hard content for players that want an actual challenge? Is 1% Hardcore 99% Casual content division unfair?

As has been established elsewhere the casual player is between 30 -60 years of age and has the most disposable income while the average age of a hardcore player is 20 years of age has has the least amount of disposable income.
If you ran a business which group would you target?
Most would answer those with the most money to throw away.
That is what Anet has done… so get use to it, or learn to be a casual player soon then later. Because trust me unless you die at 25 you will become one.

EDIT: Real Live always wins. A pretty woman becomes more important then a game. Then a job that pays enough to give you a disposable income comes into play. Then kids who start to not only suck up that income but your remaining time. As it is gamers that have been around for around twenty years is no longer the oddity but the norm. Anet knows this. That is why this game is causal player centric.

I’m looking for it, and I can’t find your “claim” established anywhere. More propaganda.

http://www.advisorperspectives.com/dshort/updates/Household-Incomes-by-Age-Brackets.php

http://ocw.metu.edu.tr/pluginfile.php/2372/mod_resource/content/1/ColeGriffiths.PDF

kill… let me know when you are going to stop being the pot calling the kettle back please. I would appreciate it

Krosslite.1950:

killcannon.2576:

Krosslite.1950:

Nick.6972:

The fact that I did 16/16 Bazaar Achievements in less than 3 days doesn’t help either.
Hell, I’m not even rushing or using any guide, everything’s too simplistic.
And what should I do now? Wait another week till I get other 5 hour content update?
How about adding new HARD permanent repeatable dungeons?
Is it too hard to create a decent hard content for players that want an actual challenge? Is 1% Hardcore 99% Casual content division unfair?

As has been established elsewhere the casual player is between 30 -60 years of age and has the most disposable income while the average age of a hardcore player is 20 years of age has has the least amount of disposable income.
If you ran a business which group would you target?
Most would answer those with the most money to throw away.
That is what Anet has done… so get use to it, or learn to be a casual player soon then later. Because trust me unless you die at 25 you will become one.

EDIT: Real Live always wins. A pretty woman becomes more important then a game. Then a job that pays enough to give you a disposable income comes into play. Then kids who start to not only suck up that income but your remaining time. As it is gamers that have been around for around twenty years is no longer the oddity but the norm. Anet knows this. That is why this game is causal player centric.

I’m looking for it, and I can’t find your “claim” established anywhere. More propaganda.

http://www.advisorperspectives.com/dshort/updates/Household-Incomes-by-Age-Brackets.php

http://ocw.metu.edu.tr/pluginfile.php/2372/mod_resource/content/1/ColeGriffiths.PDF

kill… let me know when you are going to stop being the pot calling the kettle back please. I would appreciate it

I’m assuming you didn’t bother to read that, because it actually disproves your theory. Thanks.

Casual gamer studies are generally involved with mobile technology, and or social media games.

For broad terms in gaming: Casual gamers don’t play mmo’s
For broad terms in MMO’s: Casual players don’t have anything to do with time investment, but a playstyle.
For a Broad look at what MMO publishers want their players to do: They want players to log in every day and play. MMO publishers don’t want casual gamers from the broader spectrum of the game populace. MMO’s attract and are fed by gamers who are attached to the game, are invested, and who want to play. Not people who log in once a week, or weekenders.

MMO’s are never and will never be targeted at a casual gamer.

Tachenon.5270:

Galen Grey.4709:

Is it that bad to play other older content for 7,8 days between LS releases?

No, I’m all for playing older content. As I’ve said, it’s the older content in GW2 that’s keeping me here. I am not against new content. I am not against new content every two weeks. I am, as I’ve said, against non-seasonal temporary content because it comes and goes and therefore does not become additional older content. Therefore, the amount of older content available to do between these rounds of new content is not increasing. I believe this is bad for the game.

There is not much more to do here today (between living story episodes) than there was at launch. Fractals, if you like that. How many different ‘dungeons’ are there in the fractals? Have any been added? Then there’s Southsun Cove, if you like the events there, which I don’t, but that’s beside the point. What else? The aetherblade jumping puzzle, if you like that. Oh, and those DEs that were added so early on that no one noticed they were new and therefore didn’t comment on their newness.

Anything else? Besides balancing and tweaking?

The emphasis on temporary content is, in my opinion, keeping the core game in stasis. Now, before someone feels obliged to point out (yet again) that the devs have said that they intend to add more permanent content along with the continuing delivery of temporary content and have four teams working on all this stuff stuff stuffy stuff, I’ll say this: yes, of course. Devs say a lot of things. A Cryptic dev once said, and I quote, “And I will continue to remind you that nothing said before launch, or even now, is a ‘promise’ and to continue to construe it as such is just playing to human nature.” And so, as far as I am concerned, anything a game developer says (not just anet – all of them, everywhere, in every game), particularly in regard to what may be in the works, amounts to little more than hearsay and rumor mongering until it actually appears in the game. Be that as it may, I maintain that they should not be adding some permanent content along with the temporary content, I say it should all be permanent content, and it should all be content with substance, something that will stick to our ribs, so to speak, and not more spam the F button junk that is the MMO equivalent of potato chips and candy bars.

So. We will see what we will see, and we will see it when we see it. See?

I liked your wall of text so I quoted it all. If I may I would like to pull out some favorite lines:
-“[I’m] against non-seasonal temporary content because it comes and goes and therefore does not become additional older content”
-“There is not much more to do here today (between living story episodes) than there was at launch.”
-“The emphasis on temporary content is, in my opinion, keeping the core game in stasis.”

Friendly reminder to all is that Super Adventure Box is not a part of the Living Story Project. SABs miraculous creation and opening was apart from what at the time was the Flame & Frost Living Story chapter. Let us pray it stays independent of this Frankenstein monster known as the living story.

There are people who would complain that they come back and there’s a ton of content that is overwhelming.

They may also complain that the new content that was added months ago while they were away is now empty and there is nobody who will play it with them. (Sort of like going to Southsun outside of a relevant LS update.)

It should also be understood that the Living Story is a content delivery method and philosophy, not just a single feature that "has taken over the game’. The “Living World” may end up being an unfortunate choice of words by PR. What Living Story/World means is that patches will follow a story rather than just appear.

This doesn’t mean I am against there being more permanent content. I am all for that. I believe everyone, including ANet, sees the current ratio of temporary to permanent content as unsatisfactory.

lilstev.3498:

There is still so much of the map undiscovered! Anet has a ton of room to play with on the map, and as others have said, I bet they’re working on larger content releases, while puttin out theses smaller like the recent bazaar. I really am looking forward to see how this LS is gonna play out. I mean we still get Aetherblades still attacking during the bazaar, so it’ll be really interesting.

Also does this LS go off a book or some type of publication, or are they just making stuff up as we go?

Not just that but the refugees from flame and frost build the expansion in southsun in the follow LS and then after they left there (IE right now, they moved to cragstead and they’re rebuilding there)

I love how even though these LS are seperate contained events, elements from each move from one to the other. If you miss the previous event you can catchup no problem but if you do them all you can see this tapestry weaving in the background which is great imho.

Here is my opinion.

If there is temporary content every 2 weeks, how much endgame will this game have?
If you can play every countent for few days/weeks and than its over that means you only get +1 endgame thing to do every 2 weeks. And if you miss like 3 living stories. AGAIN you have only 1 living story you can do, instead of having all 4 and endgame content is much higher now… I am afraid that Anet wants players to spend real money to get things.

I startted playing again few days ago and getting bored fast. No new content at all. I missed 2 living stories, cant do them now. Really whats the point of doing temorary content and than delete it.

Overall game was awesome in leveling stage. But I think this game has worst endgame than MMO can have.

So please Anet, if you really care about players ( like you always say ) make some major changes to endgame.

etiolate.9185:

There are people who would complain that they come back and there’s a ton of content that is overwhelming.

They may also complain that the new content that was added months ago while they were away is now empty and there is nobody who will play it with them. (Sort of like going to Southsun outside of a relevant LS update.)

It should also be understood that the Living Story is a content delivery method and philosophy, not just a single feature that "has taken over the game’. The “Living World” may end up being an unfortunate choice of words by PR. What Living Story/World means is that patches will follow a story rather than just appear.

This doesn’t mean I am against there being more permanent content. I am all for that. I believe everyone, including ANet, sees the current ratio of temporary to permanent content as unsatisfactory.

You dont get it at all. This content was temorary , thats why there are no people there . You cant get anything there anymore. Thats why noone plays it. Temporary

Vetrie.7804:

Here is my opinion.

If there is temporary content every 2 weeks, how much endgame will this game have?
If you can play every countent for few days/weeks and than its over that means you only get +1 endgame thing to do every 2 weeks. And if you miss like 3 living stories. AGAIN you have only 1 living story you can do, instead of having all 4 and endgame content is much higher now… I am afraid that Anet wants players to spend real money to get things.

I startted playing again few days ago and getting bored fast. No new content at all. I missed 2 living stories, cant do them now. Really whats the point of doing temorary content and than delete it.

Overall game was awesome in leveling stage. But I think this game has worst endgame than MMO can have.

So please Anet, if you really care about players ( like you always say ) make some major changes to endgame.

And I think this game has the best end game a game can have, which is none to speak of.

What is this burning need for an end game that so many people seem to have. What was the end game of Skyrim? Dragon Age? There wasn’t one.

RPGs don’t really need end games. It’s what MMOs have sold us so far.

End games are very much MMOs but not very much RPGs.

Vayne.8563:

Vetrie.7804:

Here is my opinion.

If there is temporary content every 2 weeks, how much endgame will this game have?
If you can play every countent for few days/weeks and than its over that means you only get +1 endgame thing to do every 2 weeks. And if you miss like 3 living stories. AGAIN you have only 1 living story you can do, instead of having all 4 and endgame content is much higher now… I am afraid that Anet wants players to spend real money to get things.

I startted playing again few days ago and getting bored fast. No new content at all. I missed 2 living stories, cant do them now. Really whats the point of doing temorary content and than delete it.

Overall game was awesome in leveling stage. But I think this game has worst endgame than MMO can have.

So please Anet, if you really care about players ( like you always say ) make some major changes to endgame.

And I think this game has the best end game a game can have, which is none to speak of.

What is this burning need for an end game that so many people seem to have. What was the end game of Skyrim? Dragon Age? There wasn’t one.

RPGs don’t really need end games. It’s what MMOs have sold us so far.

End games are very much MMOs but not very much RPGs.

You could have at least used some relevant examples. Stating 2 SINGLE PLAYER rpgs against an mmorpg does not work.

The endgame for singleplayer games usually do not exist for many reasons. One is, those two examples have mod support. The end game is pretty much modding your game and replaying a whole new experience. Not just re rolling a new class or race.

If you really want to compare those 2, you’ve got less flexibility in an endgame with gw2.
we all know mmos are a different beast and can not use the exact same methods as a single player game.

nethykins.7986:

Vayne.8563:

Vetrie.7804:

Here is my opinion.

If there is temporary content every 2 weeks, how much endgame will this game have?
If you can play every countent for few days/weeks and than its over that means you only get +1 endgame thing to do every 2 weeks. And if you miss like 3 living stories. AGAIN you have only 1 living story you can do, instead of having all 4 and endgame content is much higher now… I am afraid that Anet wants players to spend real money to get things.

I startted playing again few days ago and getting bored fast. No new content at all. I missed 2 living stories, cant do them now. Really whats the point of doing temorary content and than delete it.

Overall game was awesome in leveling stage. But I think this game has worst endgame than MMO can have.

So please Anet, if you really care about players ( like you always say ) make some major changes to endgame.

And I think this game has the best end game a game can have, which is none to speak of.

What is this burning need for an end game that so many people seem to have. What was the end game of Skyrim? Dragon Age? There wasn’t one.

RPGs don’t really need end games. It’s what MMOs have sold us so far.

End games are very much MMOs but not very much RPGs.

You could have at least used some relevant examples. Stating 2 SINGLE PLAYER rpgs against an mmorpg does not work.

The endgame for singleplayer games usually do not exist for many reasons. One is, those two examples have mod support. The end game is pretty much modding your game and replaying a whole new experience. Not just re rolling a new class or race.

If you really want to compare those 2, you’ve got less flexibility in an endgame with gw2.
we all know mmos are a different beast and can not use the exact same methods as a single player game.

I can compare them. I think you might be very surprised how many single player RPG people like the idea of MMOs but hate MMOs, specifically because of the traditional end game.

And yeah, I’m not a program designer. I’m a writer. I can give you a hell of a story but I couldn’t necessarily say how to make a game better. But I can say what I like and what I’ve been waiting for.

It’s not quite this. But this is closer than anything else out there.

Vayne.8563:

nethykins.7986:

Vayne.8563:

Vetrie.7804:

Here is my opinion.

If there is temporary content every 2 weeks, how much endgame will this game have?
If you can play every countent for few days/weeks and than its over that means you only get +1 endgame thing to do every 2 weeks. And if you miss like 3 living stories. AGAIN you have only 1 living story you can do, instead of having all 4 and endgame content is much higher now… I am afraid that Anet wants players to spend real money to get things.

I startted playing again few days ago and getting bored fast. No new content at all. I missed 2 living stories, cant do them now. Really whats the point of doing temorary content and than delete it.

Overall game was awesome in leveling stage. But I think this game has worst endgame than MMO can have.

So please Anet, if you really care about players ( like you always say ) make some major changes to endgame.

And I think this game has the best end game a game can have, which is none to speak of.

What is this burning need for an end game that so many people seem to have. What was the end game of Skyrim? Dragon Age? There wasn’t one.

RPGs don’t really need end games. It’s what MMOs have sold us so far.

End games are very much MMOs but not very much RPGs.

You could have at least used some relevant examples. Stating 2 SINGLE PLAYER rpgs against an mmorpg does not work.

The endgame for singleplayer games usually do not exist for many reasons. One is, those two examples have mod support. The end game is pretty much modding your game and replaying a whole new experience. Not just re rolling a new class or race.

If you really want to compare those 2, you’ve got less flexibility in an endgame with gw2.
we all know mmos are a different beast and can not use the exact same methods as a single player game.

I can compare them. I think you might be very surprised how many single player RPG people like the idea of MMOs but hate MMOs, specifically because of the traditional end game.

And yeah, I’m not a program designer. I’m a writer. I can give you a hell of a story but I couldn’t necessarily say how to make a game better. But I can say what I like and what I’ve been waiting for.

It’s not quite this. But this is closer than anything else out there.

You’re free to compare whatever you want, just make them relative to each other. Mainly because we rarely ever compare singleplayer games against mmos. Just because it has ‘rpg’ in there. Like i said, they’re two different beasts.

The whole idea behind endgame is retention, is it not?
Mainly for the benefit of devs to keep numbers consistently up but it gives players a reason to consistently play.

Surely is people ask for better endgame they just want a rewarding reason to log in after hitting 80. The assumption people make is that real, meaningful, endgame content will just cause the game to spontaneously combust.

Nick.6972:

The fact that I did 16/16 Bazaar Achievements in less than 3 days doesn’t help either.
Hell, I’m not even rushing or using any guide, everything’s too simplistic.
And what should I do now? Wait another week till I get other 5 hour content update?
How about adding new HARD permanent repeatable dungeons?
Is it too hard to create a decent hard content for players that want an actual challenge? Is 1% Hardcore 99% Casual content division unfair?

No, it’s not unfair as the proportion of ‘hardcore’ players is always miniscule when stacked up against more casual players – and this is a person with near 3,000 hours on GW2, GWAMM and 50/50 in GW1.

Importantly for players like you and me, Arenanet is listening. They are working on content for those of us who are looking for challenges and/or large-scale group content. The previews that appeared today talk of the Fall of Abaddon and a masssive Reactor Explosion being potential additions to Fractals and we know that they’re considering moving Aetherblade Retreat and the Molten Facility there too. Furthermore, they are working on something named ’Fortune’s Vale’, which is ’GW2’s answer to raids. The datamined map is equal in size to that of the Eternal Battlegrounds.

I’m enjoying the direction of the Living Story and am particularly interested to see just how many new additions we stack up over the course of this year. We know Arenanet is interested in balancing out temp content with stuff that sticks around longer and we can see the results beginning to take shape with this election and what each candidate is offering.

nethykins.7986:

Vayne.8563:

nethykins.7986:

Vayne.8563:

Vetrie.7804:

Here is my opinion.

If there is temporary content every 2 weeks, how much endgame will this game have?
If you can play every countent for few days/weeks and than its over that means you only get +1 endgame thing to do every 2 weeks. And if you miss like 3 living stories. AGAIN you have only 1 living story you can do, instead of having all 4 and endgame content is much higher now… I am afraid that Anet wants players to spend real money to get things.

I startted playing again few days ago and getting bored fast. No new content at all. I missed 2 living stories, cant do them now. Really whats the point of doing temorary content and than delete it.

Overall game was awesome in leveling stage. But I think this game has worst endgame than MMO can have.

So please Anet, if you really care about players ( like you always say ) make some major changes to endgame.

And I think this game has the best end game a game can have, which is none to speak of.

What is this burning need for an end game that so many people seem to have. What was the end game of Skyrim? Dragon Age? There wasn’t one.

RPGs don’t really need end games. It’s what MMOs have sold us so far.

End games are very much MMOs but not very much RPGs.

You could have at least used some relevant examples. Stating 2 SINGLE PLAYER rpgs against an mmorpg does not work.

The endgame for singleplayer games usually do not exist for many reasons. One is, those two examples have mod support. The end game is pretty much modding your game and replaying a whole new experience. Not just re rolling a new class or race.

If you really want to compare those 2, you’ve got less flexibility in an endgame with gw2.
we all know mmos are a different beast and can not use the exact same methods as a single player game.

I can compare them. I think you might be very surprised how many single player RPG people like the idea of MMOs but hate MMOs, specifically because of the traditional end game.

And yeah, I’m not a program designer. I’m a writer. I can give you a hell of a story but I couldn’t necessarily say how to make a game better. But I can say what I like and what I’ve been waiting for.

It’s not quite this. But this is closer than anything else out there.

You’re free to compare whatever you want, just make them relative to each other. Mainly because we rarely ever compare singleplayer games against mmos. Just because it has ‘rpg’ in there. Like i said, they’re two different beasts.

The whole idea behind endgame is retention, is it not?
Mainly for the benefit of devs to keep numbers consistently up but it gives players a reason to consistently play.

Surely is people ask for better endgame they just want a rewarding reason to log in after hitting 80. The assumption people make is that real, meaningful, endgame content will just cause the game to spontaneously combust.

But there’s a problem with the very concept of end game. In most games you do one activity, until you reach the end game and that activity changes. You level THEN you raid. This means that there are two different games going on there, and you have to like both of them or you’re screwed.

If you don’t like leveling, you’re going to hate doing it to get to the raiding. If you don’t like raiding, and the game centers on that (which most end games do) then the companies don’t provide enough open world stuff for you to keep going.

Here we have a game with no end game, at least no end game as it exists in other MMOs…because the end game isn’t pathed. In most MMOs you go from dungeon A to dungeon B to raid A to raid B. No thanks.

The end game here is about retention…but it’s not here to appeal to the people who are raiders, because those people have games they can play. But the people who like to level and don’t like traditional end game. We’ve had nothing.

The reason I compare to single player games, is because it’s the same types of players who might very well like both. It’s not even the games I’m really comparing but the players.

So Anet gives us the equivalent of DLC in the game, but for free. It works for people like me. It obviously doesn’t work for people like you.

But it’s what I’ve personally been waiting for. And yes, it’s not perfect, but it’s better for me than the end game offered by any MMO I’ve played. The exception might be TSW, but I didn’t like other things about the game.

Vetrie.7804:

Here is my opinion.

If there is temporary content every 2 weeks, how much endgame will this game have?
If you can play every countent for few days/weeks and than its over that means you only get +1 endgame thing to do every 2 weeks. And if you miss like 3 living stories. AGAIN you have only 1 living story you can do, instead of having all 4 and endgame content is much higher now… I am afraid that Anet wants players to spend real money to get things.

I startted playing again few days ago and getting bored fast. No new content at all. I missed 2 living stories, cant do them now. Really whats the point of doing temorary content and than delete it.

Overall game was awesome in leveling stage. But I think this game has worst endgame than MMO can have.

So please Anet, if you really care about players ( like you always say ) make some major changes to endgame.

That would be true if temporary stuff would be all we are getting. But even now, that is before Arenanet commited themselves to a bigger permanent to temporary content ratio we were also getting permanent content nearly every update. Always something every 2 updates.

Also since when having 1 new thing to do every 2 weeks a bad thing? You missed 3 living stories fine, that didnt mean you didnt have anything to do now that you logged back in because any time you log in there will be something new for you to do. If this was your typical expansion based MMO then logging in now would like have you find absolutely nothing new to do because the expansion would be still being worked on. Like wise there is long term stuff here Anet are working on as well. That too will I am sure remain permanently once released.

The sad thing is its seems the more stuff Arenanet release the more people expect. You claim there is nothing new to do. Even forgetting the current temporary content in this release (which isnt exactly no new content) you still have all this permanent content that was released in the past 2 Living Stores that you missed: Guild missions WvW progression, Custom Arenas, a new Meta event, a bunch of new dynamic events. a new jumping puzzle. 2 new mini games, a new PVP map. seriously how is this no new content?

Vetrie.7804:

etiolate.9185:

There are people who would complain that they come back and there’s a ton of content that is overwhelming.

They may also complain that the new content that was added months ago while they were away is now empty and there is nobody who will play it with them. (Sort of like going to Southsun outside of a relevant LS update.)

It should also be understood that the Living Story is a content delivery method and philosophy, not just a single feature that "has taken over the game’. The “Living World” may end up being an unfortunate choice of words by PR. What Living Story/World means is that patches will follow a story rather than just appear.

This doesn’t mean I am against there being more permanent content. I am all for that. I believe everyone, including ANet, sees the current ratio of temporary to permanent content as unsatisfactory.

You dont get it at all. This content was temorary , thats why there are no people there . You cant get anything there anymore. Thats why noone plays it. Temporary

You could’ve at least picked something other then the one place where the LS story events where not temporary because sorry to break it to you in this case all the events (the crazed karka, the karka queen meta event etcc.) are still in there. The only thing that was temporary in that release was the Canach/Null instance and somehow I doubt thats why no one goes there any longer.

I think living content is a good thing. BUT please, let us enjoy it even after it’s been removed.
Set up a server that we can join that is going through all the big content patches one after another in a continuous loop.

killcannon.2576:

Krosslite.1950:

killcannon.2576:

Krosslite.1950:

Nick.6972:

The fact that I did 16/16 Bazaar Achievements in less than 3 days doesn’t help either.
Hell, I’m not even rushing or using any guide, everything’s too simplistic.
And what should I do now? Wait another week till I get other 5 hour content update?
How about adding new HARD permanent repeatable dungeons?
Is it too hard to create a decent hard content for players that want an actual challenge? Is 1% Hardcore 99% Casual content division unfair?

As has been established elsewhere the casual player is between 30 -60 years of age and has the most disposable income while the average age of a hardcore player is 20 years of age has has the least amount of disposable income.
If you ran a business which group would you target?
Most would answer those with the most money to throw away.
That is what Anet has done… so get use to it, or learn to be a casual player soon then later. Because trust me unless you die at 25 you will become one.

EDIT: Real Live always wins. A pretty woman becomes more important then a game. Then a job that pays enough to give you a disposable income comes into play. Then kids who start to not only suck up that income but your remaining time. As it is gamers that have been around for around twenty years is no longer the oddity but the norm. Anet knows this. That is why this game is causal player centric.

I’m looking for it, and I can’t find your “claim” established anywhere. More propaganda.

http://www.advisorperspectives.com/dshort/updates/Household-Incomes-by-Age-Brackets.php

http://ocw.metu.edu.tr/pluginfile.php/2372/mod_resource/content/1/ColeGriffiths.PDF

kill… let me know when you are going to stop being the pot calling the kettle back please. I would appreciate it

I’m assuming you didn’t bother to read that, because it actually disproves your theory. Thanks.

Casual gamer studies are generally involved with mobile technology, and or social media games.

For broad terms in gaming: Casual gamers don’t play mmo’s
For broad terms in MMO’s: Casual players don’t have anything to do with time investment, but a playstyle.
For a Broad look at what MMO publishers want their players to do: They want players to log in every day and play. MMO publishers don’t want casual gamers from the broader spectrum of the game populace. MMO’s attract and are fed by gamers who are attached to the game, are invested, and who want to play. Not people who log in once a week, or weekenders.

MMO’s are never and will never be targeted at a casual gamer.

talk about propaganda

come on killcannon… documentation…

You have more then once tried to peck this on me and then you make an inflammatory statement like above. back it up man

Krosslite.1950:

killcannon.2576:

Krosslite.1950:

killcannon.2576:

Krosslite.1950:

Nick.6972:

The fact that I did 16/16 Bazaar Achievements in less than 3 days doesn’t help either.
Hell, I’m not even rushing or using any guide, everything’s too simplistic.
And what should I do now? Wait another week till I get other 5 hour content update?
How about adding new HARD permanent repeatable dungeons?
Is it too hard to create a decent hard content for players that want an actual challenge? Is 1% Hardcore 99% Casual content division unfair?

As has been established elsewhere the casual player is between 30 -60 years of age and has the most disposable income while the average age of a hardcore player is 20 years of age has has the least amount of disposable income.
If you ran a business which group would you target?
Most would answer those with the most money to throw away.
That is what Anet has done… so get use to it, or learn to be a casual player soon then later. Because trust me unless you die at 25 you will become one.

EDIT: Real Live always wins. A pretty woman becomes more important then a game. Then a job that pays enough to give you a disposable income comes into play. Then kids who start to not only suck up that income but your remaining time. As it is gamers that have been around for around twenty years is no longer the oddity but the norm. Anet knows this. That is why this game is causal player centric.

I’m looking for it, and I can’t find your “claim” established anywhere. More propaganda.

http://www.advisorperspectives.com/dshort/updates/Household-Incomes-by-Age-Brackets.php

http://ocw.metu.edu.tr/pluginfile.php/2372/mod_resource/content/1/ColeGriffiths.PDF

kill… let me know when you are going to stop being the pot calling the kettle back please. I would appreciate it

I’m assuming you didn’t bother to read that, because it actually disproves your theory. Thanks.

Casual gamer studies are generally involved with mobile technology, and or social media games.

For broad terms in gaming: Casual gamers don’t play mmo’s
For broad terms in MMO’s: Casual players don’t have anything to do with time investment, but a playstyle.
For a Broad look at what MMO publishers want their players to do: They want players to log in every day and play. MMO publishers don’t want casual gamers from the broader spectrum of the game populace. MMO’s attract and are fed by gamers who are attached to the game, are invested, and who want to play. Not people who log in once a week, or weekenders.

MMO’s are never and will never be targeted at a casual gamer.

talk about propaganda

come on killcannon… documentation…

You have more then once tried to peck this on me and then you make an inflammatory statement like above. back it up man

It’s common knowledge. Casual gamer does not equal an mmo casual player. The articles you linked give the data, read em.

killcannon.2576:

Krosslite.1950:

killcannon.2576:

Krosslite.1950:

killcannon.2576:

Krosslite.1950:

Nick.6972:

The fact that I did 16/16 Bazaar Achievements in less than 3 days doesn’t help either.
Hell, I’m not even rushing or using any guide, everything’s too simplistic.
And what should I do now? Wait another week till I get other 5 hour content update?
How about adding new HARD permanent repeatable dungeons?
Is it too hard to create a decent hard content for players that want an actual challenge? Is 1% Hardcore 99% Casual content division unfair?

As has been established elsewhere the casual player is between 30 -60 years of age and has the most disposable income while the average age of a hardcore player is 20 years of age has has the least amount of disposable income.
If you ran a business which group would you target?
Most would answer those with the most money to throw away.
That is what Anet has done… so get use to it, or learn to be a casual player soon then later. Because trust me unless you die at 25 you will become one.

EDIT: Real Live always wins. A pretty woman becomes more important then a game. Then a job that pays enough to give you a disposable income comes into play. Then kids who start to not only suck up that income but your remaining time. As it is gamers that have been around for around twenty years is no longer the oddity but the norm. Anet knows this. That is why this game is causal player centric.

I’m looking for it, and I can’t find your “claim” established anywhere. More propaganda.

http://www.advisorperspectives.com/dshort/updates/Household-Incomes-by-Age-Brackets.php

http://ocw.metu.edu.tr/pluginfile.php/2372/mod_resource/content/1/ColeGriffiths.PDF

kill… let me know when you are going to stop being the pot calling the kettle back please. I would appreciate it

I’m assuming you didn’t bother to read that, because it actually disproves your theory. Thanks.

Casual gamer studies are generally involved with mobile technology, and or social media games.

For broad terms in gaming: Casual gamers don’t play mmo’s
For broad terms in MMO’s: Casual players don’t have anything to do with time investment, but a playstyle.
For a Broad look at what MMO publishers want their players to do: They want players to log in every day and play. MMO publishers don’t want casual gamers from the broader spectrum of the game populace. MMO’s attract and are fed by gamers who are attached to the game, are invested, and who want to play. Not people who log in once a week, or weekenders.

MMO’s are never and will never be targeted at a casual gamer.

talk about propaganda

come on killcannon… documentation…

You have more then once tried to peck this on me and then you make an inflammatory statement like above. back it up man

It’s common knowledge. Casual gamer does not equal an mmo casual player. The articles you linked give the data, read em.

That is not “common knowledge”
That is the common assumption.

My point is that they targeting consumers between 25 and 55 where the most disposable income is and most of the casual players

Krosslite.1950:

killcannon.2576:

Krosslite.1950:

killcannon.2576:

Krosslite.1950:

killcannon.2576:

Krosslite.1950:

Nick.6972:

The fact that I did 16/16 Bazaar Achievements in less than 3 days doesn’t help either.
Hell, I’m not even rushing or using any guide, everything’s too simplistic.
And what should I do now? Wait another week till I get other 5 hour content update?
How about adding new HARD permanent repeatable dungeons?
Is it too hard to create a decent hard content for players that want an actual challenge? Is 1% Hardcore 99% Casual content division unfair?

As has been established elsewhere the casual player is between 30 -60 years of age and has the most disposable income while the average age of a hardcore player is 20 years of age has has the least amount of disposable income.
If you ran a business which group would you target?
Most would answer those with the most money to throw away.
That is what Anet has done… so get use to it, or learn to be a casual player soon then later. Because trust me unless you die at 25 you will become one.

EDIT: Real Live always wins. A pretty woman becomes more important then a game. Then a job that pays enough to give you a disposable income comes into play. Then kids who start to not only suck up that income but your remaining time. As it is gamers that have been around for around twenty years is no longer the oddity but the norm. Anet knows this. That is why this game is causal player centric.

I’m looking for it, and I can’t find your “claim” established anywhere. More propaganda.

http://www.advisorperspectives.com/dshort/updates/Household-Incomes-by-Age-Brackets.php

http://ocw.metu.edu.tr/pluginfile.php/2372/mod_resource/content/1/ColeGriffiths.PDF

kill… let me know when you are going to stop being the pot calling the kettle back please. I would appreciate it

I’m assuming you didn’t bother to read that, because it actually disproves your theory. Thanks.

Casual gamer studies are generally involved with mobile technology, and or social media games.

For broad terms in gaming: Casual gamers don’t play mmo’s
For broad terms in MMO’s: Casual players don’t have anything to do with time investment, but a playstyle.
For a Broad look at what MMO publishers want their players to do: They want players to log in every day and play. MMO publishers don’t want casual gamers from the broader spectrum of the game populace. MMO’s attract and are fed by gamers who are attached to the game, are invested, and who want to play. Not people who log in once a week, or weekenders.

MMO’s are never and will never be targeted at a casual gamer.

talk about propaganda

come on killcannon… documentation…

You have more then once tried to peck this on me and then you make an inflammatory statement like above. back it up man

It’s common knowledge. Casual gamer does not equal an mmo casual player. The articles you linked give the data, read em.

That is not “common knowledge”
That is the common assumption.

My point is that they targeting consumers between 25 and 55 where the most disposable income is and most of the casual players

All very interesting but it does not make temporary content any better.

Someone brought this up before, but the majority of people from the Golden Age of MMOs (2004 with the advent of WoW) are all now in their late-20s, have careers (most of us I assume) and are significantly more casual than they/we used to be. We are the target market for this game, in my opinion. We have the history of being really hard-core when we were able back in the day and we are the ones that now have the disposable income to support a F2P game that caters to the casual.

No offense to hardcore gamers, I was once like you. Ten years from now you will be like me and you will relish in the fact that a game caters to the casual gamer. You will be hardpressed to find a casual gamer that will pay a monthly sub these days simply because we’ve all been let down too many times. I don’t know how many of my friends (myself included) have made the remark “If it was free I’d play it, but I’m not spending $15/mo on a game that I barely log into or get bored of”. Many of us have made this comment.

People talk about MMOs like they’ve been established for centuries and they understand the nuances of growing one. They act as though the customer base for MMOs never changes. The genre itself is a young genre, the player base changes with time as it ages. Incomes change, play-styles change, tastes change, time available changes. Things that were once novel and awesome are boring and repetitive. The ex-hardcore players don’t want the same stuff we’ve been playing for the last decade+. We don’t want all of the new players who haven’t been playing MMOs for a decade+ complain that GW2 isn’t like this game or that game, or they don’t like how it doesn’t cater to their playstyle.

I get it! I really do! Ten years ago GW2 would have bored the crap out of me. In fact, GW1 bored the crap out of me when I first played it. I couldn’t really appreciate it because I was too focused on being hard-core and doing everything hard-mode.

The hard-core gamers are the most vocal and think they are the focus, when in reality the generation ahead of them is larger and more likely to stay for the long-term. Anet isn’t paid per hour you play, they are paid if you spend money on the store and through box sales. Someone who logs on 1hr/day and makes one gem purchase a month is far more valuable than someone who plays 8hrs/day and never purchases anything. Yet the 8hrs/day person complains the most and feels the most entitled.

Hate to say it but GW2 just might not be for you. In the most literal sense possible.