Guild Wars 2

Gibson.4036:

Another piece of evidence is the relatively recent renewal of interest in Communicating With You™.

We had a pretty sudden up-spike in the amount of ArenaNet interaction with the forum. If it had been gradually building, it might not stand out, but it came on quickly. Someone at ArenaNet clearly saw a problem and felt the need to prompt the staff to get more engaged with the forum population.

Again, medicine to address a problem.

Hoepfully these medicines are working. It’s a good sign, rather than letting the patient just keep languishing. GW2 may not be on its deathbed, or even in need of hospitalization, but it is definitely not in complete health.

Medicine to address the forum problem. We don’t really know if the game and the forum are always on the same page.

Vayne.8563:

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

Anet wants to expand/improve uptake of the game for new players. All businesses do that.

And most businesses do that without kittening their product up for the customers they already have. And that’s where it goes wrong with Anet

Do you have proof of this? Do you know what percentage of people are upset or enraged? Do you know how many are leaving?

Almost every time a business makes a change, someone is going to get kittened off by that change. That happened with my business too. A change was made and some people benefited and some people didn’t.

Generally speaking, if we made that change, we were willing to sacrifice a smallish group to gain a larger group. That’s what businesses do.

I’ll just leave this here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Game-Updates-Traits/first

And if I kept track of all the people in game, in real life, on other forums etc. etc. I spoke to that found any of the changes bullkitten, I would have a long list. But I haven’t done that.

Vayne.8563:

Are you saying WoW was failing at the height of it’s success?

No, they want MORE players to continue playing to higher levels.

No, and I thought I was pretty clear that I wasn’t saying GW2 is failing, either. I’m saying it is not entirely healthy.

The way ArenaNet protrayed the NPE was not as “hey, wouldn’t it be better if even MORE people joined the game after they tried it?” They way they portrayed it was, “We looked at the game and saw we had a problem with new player retention, which necessitated prioritizing a revamp of the new player experience.”

Vayne.8563:

Medicine to address the forum problem. We don’t really know if the game and the forum are always on the same page.

If it was isolated to the forum, would it be worth bothering with treating?

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

Anet wants to expand/improve uptake of the game for new players. All businesses do that.

And most businesses do that without kittening their product up for the customers they already have. And that’s where it goes wrong with Anet

Wrong .. the real problem is that “veteran” players often just complain about things
that often don’t even affect them enymore.

In EQ2 for example masses of players were complaining about “dumbing down” the
game when all the heroic mobs were removed from overland maps and instead we
got more and more solo quests. Even since most of all those heroic mobs were never
touched by any players.

I’ve read that in the first FF MMO there were some quests that require you to kill
some hard mobs that noone ever touched again later, and it was at some point
a big problem for new players to progress further .. but old players still complained
when they removed them.

Same with removal of zone access quests in EQ2 ..

And the NGE .. heck that is maybe 15-30 minutes of gameplay were you are really
affected by it on a new character (as long as we not talk about traits).

Beldin.5498:

And the NGE .. heck that is maybe 15-30 minutes of gameplay were you are really
affected by it on a new character (as long as we not talk about traits).

O, don’t get me wrong. I have nothing against the NPE. The concept of the idea is good, but it wasn’t delivered good imo.
And as you say for yourself, as long as we are not talking about traits. The fact they kittened that up, and haven’t even fixed it/communicated about it says much, just too much….

And ofcourse, it is no problem for a business to create/alter content in favor to get new players. But here it comes:
1: Don’t create/alter content that affects your already excisting customers too much. So many simple solutions to not go down that path, but Anet chooses to go down that path.
2: Divide your resources between creating/altering content for new players, and creating/altering content for excisting customers. Not gonna explain this point, I think you know what I mean.

Illuminati.2431:

Beldin.5498:

And the NGE .. heck that is maybe 15-30 minutes of gameplay were you are really
affected by it on a new character (as long as we not talk about traits).

O, don’t get me wrong. I have nothing against the NPE. The concept of the idea is good, but it wasn’t delivered good imo.
And as you say for yourself, as long as we are not talking about traits. The fact they kittened that up, and haven’t even fixed it/communicated about it says much, just too much….

And ofcourse, it is no problem for a business to create/alter content in favor to get new players. But here it comes:
1: Don’t create/alter content that affects your already excisting customers too much. So many simple solutions to not go down that path, but Anet chooses to go down that path.
2: Divide your resources between creating/altering content for new players, and creating/altering content for excisting customers. Not gonna explain this point, I think you know what I mean.

Anet has communicated about Traits quite a bit, even made changes to acquisition of many traits… I don’t know what it is there to say other than that they think about the traits too but don’t want to revert it but change it. It has been slow and the traits are still a problem though.

How has the NPE effected veterans a lot? Aside from the first 15 levels, which can now be done in one hour; it hasn’t had much effect, especially to level 80 players. The trait system has effected veterans somewhat but even then only for new characters and it’s not like veterans can’t afford to just buy the traits.

What new content has been created for new players? The only content really altered has been living story segments but I don’t see how that has created a problem of lesser resources.

I fail to see how it’s a major problem and how so many people can state that the game’s focus has changed because of one part of a feature pack. It’s as true as people claiming that the game would become a gear treadmill because of the implementation of ascended gear.

Vayne.8563:

Sure, but it’s three different clubs, and they’re not all the same. You might argue Raptr and Xfire are similar, but Overwolf is a completely different animal, and they still say the same things.

You can argue all you want, but there’s still the quarterly report, there’s still the fact that NcSoft laid of NcSoft West and Carbine developers but didn’t touch Anet.

When you build a case for something you look at all the evidence. The evidence points to the game being fine. Because if it was dying or losing money, or not making profit, or dead, or buried or any of the other things people keep saying about it, layoff would have happened.

All the evidence isn’t wrong…even if some of it by itself wouldn’t stand up. This is how research works.

I have said, repeatedly, that I think the game is doing fine. I just don’t consider the specific sources being quoted as being reliable.

I believe that the sun is going to rise tomorrow but if someone said that they knew the sun was going to rise tomorrow because they read portents in the entrails of a sacrificial sheep it would not cause me to question the likelihood that the sun would rise in the morning, but I might very well question the validity of the source of the prediction.

Gibson.4036:

Vayne.8563:

Are you saying WoW was failing at the height of it’s success?

No, they want MORE players to continue playing to higher levels.

No, and I thought I was pretty clear that I wasn’t saying GW2 is failing, either. I’m saying it is not entirely healthy.

The way ArenaNet protrayed the NPE was not as “hey, wouldn’t it be better if even MORE people joined the game after they tried it?” They way they portrayed it was, “We looked at the game and saw we had a problem with new player retention, which necessitated prioritizing a revamp of the new player experience.”

What they said was problems with early player retention. I knew what they were talking about. If you want to make it something it’s not, go for it.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Sure, but it’s three different clubs, and they’re not all the same. You might argue Raptr and Xfire are similar, but Overwolf is a completely different animal, and they still say the same things.

You can argue all you want, but there’s still the quarterly report, there’s still the fact that NcSoft laid of NcSoft West and Carbine developers but didn’t touch Anet.

When you build a case for something you look at all the evidence. The evidence points to the game being fine. Because if it was dying or losing money, or not making profit, or dead, or buried or any of the other things people keep saying about it, layoff would have happened.

All the evidence isn’t wrong…even if some of it by itself wouldn’t stand up. This is how research works.

I have said, repeatedly, that I think the game is doing fine. I just don’t consider the specific sources being quoted as being reliable.

I believe that the sun is going to rise tomorrow but if someone said that they knew the sun was going to rise tomorrow because they read portents in the entrails of a sacrificial sheep it would not cause me to question the likelihood that the sun would rise in the morning, but I might very well question the validity of the source of the prediction.

And as I said, individually any of those sites would be less reliable than all of them, but taken together with other evidence, it’s hard to discount those sites completely.

You can disagree if you want…but I’m still not buying it.

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Sure, but it’s three different clubs, and they’re not all the same. You might argue Raptr and Xfire are similar, but Overwolf is a completely different animal, and they still say the same things.

You can argue all you want, but there’s still the quarterly report, there’s still the fact that NcSoft laid of NcSoft West and Carbine developers but didn’t touch Anet.

When you build a case for something you look at all the evidence. The evidence points to the game being fine. Because if it was dying or losing money, or not making profit, or dead, or buried or any of the other things people keep saying about it, layoff would have happened.

All the evidence isn’t wrong…even if some of it by itself wouldn’t stand up. This is how research works.

I have said, repeatedly, that I think the game is doing fine. I just don’t consider the specific sources being quoted as being reliable.

I believe that the sun is going to rise tomorrow but if someone said that they knew the sun was going to rise tomorrow because they read portents in the entrails of a sacrificial sheep it would not cause me to question the likelihood that the sun would rise in the morning, but I might very well question the validity of the source of the prediction.

And as I said, individually any of those sites would be less reliable than all of them, but taken together with other evidence, it’s hard to discount those sites completely.

You can disagree if you want…but I’m still not buying it.

Understood.

It doesn’t matter, to me at least, how many priests of Ba’al claim that the entrails predict something, the methodology is questionable, at best.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Sure, but it’s three different clubs, and they’re not all the same. You might argue Raptr and Xfire are similar, but Overwolf is a completely different animal, and they still say the same things.

You can argue all you want, but there’s still the quarterly report, there’s still the fact that NcSoft laid of NcSoft West and Carbine developers but didn’t touch Anet.

When you build a case for something you look at all the evidence. The evidence points to the game being fine. Because if it was dying or losing money, or not making profit, or dead, or buried or any of the other things people keep saying about it, layoff would have happened.

All the evidence isn’t wrong…even if some of it by itself wouldn’t stand up. This is how research works.

I have said, repeatedly, that I think the game is doing fine. I just don’t consider the specific sources being quoted as being reliable.

I believe that the sun is going to rise tomorrow but if someone said that they knew the sun was going to rise tomorrow because they read portents in the entrails of a sacrificial sheep it would not cause me to question the likelihood that the sun would rise in the morning, but I might very well question the validity of the source of the prediction.

And as I said, individually any of those sites would be less reliable than all of them, but taken together with other evidence, it’s hard to discount those sites completely.

You can disagree if you want…but I’m still not buying it.

Understood.

It doesn’t matter, to me at least, how many priests of Ba’al claim that the entrails predict something, the methodology is questionable, at best.

Except these aren’t priests and the analogy is disingenuous. This is data provided from groups of people who are in fact logging in. There’s no magic or mysticism here.

For those demographics, that’s how much Guild Wars 2 is played. Trying to compare it to reading entrails? Not really a great analogy.

Vayne.8563:

juno.1840:

Wow this topic is of no value — other than a soap box for Vayne (not that he needs any more of those, you’d think his feet are getting tired by now).

I think GW2 is doing fine. It’s not nearly as busy as when it launched two years ago. You can argue that’s expected.

So If the point of this thread is to say “GW2 is not dead”, then sure, I agree. However I wouldn’t try and say it’s doing better than it was two years, or even just one year ago.

But again, who cares — it’s not important, other than for kitten satisfaction at who can craft the best argument in a useless topic.

Except that people are saying it’s dying and that it will be dead in a year. No one is arguing it has more people than launch. That’s a fool’s errand.

But since people do seem to be saying the game is actually dying and won’t be here in a year, I think it’s worth pointing out the counterpoint.

How come when people repeatedly say the game is dying or going to die, you don’t say they’re on a soap box. Sounds remarkably like bias to me.

Because nobody sermonizes as much as you do in these forums. Look at this topic, it’s like 45% vayne posts. Even your name sounds like “vain”.

That aside, you’re spending a lot of time arguing a pointless topic (which u also created). Do you even play GW2 any more?

I actually haven’t noticed people saying the game is dead or will be dead in a year. I’ve seen people saying that not as many people are playing, or it’s less as time goes on, but that is to be expected of just about every single game/mmo. I truly haven’t seen someone claiming it’s dead in quite awhile. I’m sure there are some scattered around, but I haven’t noticed any.

juno.1840:

Because nobody sermonizes as much as you do in these forums. Look at this topic, it’s like 45% vayne posts. Even your name sounds like “vain”.

That aside, you’re spending a lot of time arguing a pointless topic (which u also created). Do you even play GW2 any more?

I don’t know why you’re bothering! At this point, everyone should know that responding to him is… In Vayne! /cannedlaughter

He does play though, I saw him in Timberline Falls once. Maybe a month ago.

Dunno why we’re so worried about GW2’s stats on xfire/etc. Is it just fun to speculate?

juno.1840:

Vayne.8563:

juno.1840:

Wow this topic is of no value — other than a soap box for Vayne (not that he needs any more of those, you’d think his feet are getting tired by now).

I think GW2 is doing fine. It’s not nearly as busy as when it launched two years ago. You can argue that’s expected.

So If the point of this thread is to say “GW2 is not dead”, then sure, I agree. However I wouldn’t try and say it’s doing better than it was two years, or even just one year ago.

But again, who cares — it’s not important, other than for kitten satisfaction at who can craft the best argument in a useless topic.

Except that people are saying it’s dying and that it will be dead in a year. No one is arguing it has more people than launch. That’s a fool’s errand.

But since people do seem to be saying the game is actually dying and won’t be here in a year, I think it’s worth pointing out the counterpoint.

How come when people repeatedly say the game is dying or going to die, you don’t say they’re on a soap box. Sounds remarkably like bias to me.

Because nobody sermonizes as much as you do in these forums. Look at this topic, it’s like 45% vayne posts. Even your name sounds like “vain”.

That aside, you’re spending a lot of time arguing a pointless topic (which u also created). Do you even play GW2 any more?

Track my achievement points and you’ll figure out if I play or not. As I’ve said many times before, I’m in a US guild but I live in Australia. I post here when people are sleeping. I play Guild Wars 2 during my day. So lots of time to post.

No one sermonizes as much as me? lol Okay. Maybe it’s because there are 20 people saying unprovable things as fact, and there are not as many people willing to stand up to them. Many disagree, but not everyone posts.

And since I’m replying in this thread to people who are replying to me (because it’s my thread) why wouldn’t I reply.

Sarrs.4831:

juno.1840:

Because nobody sermonizes as much as you do in these forums. Look at this topic, it’s like 45% vayne posts. Even your name sounds like “vain”.

That aside, you’re spending a lot of time arguing a pointless topic (which u also created). Do you even play GW2 any more?

I don’t know why you’re bothering! At this point, everyone should know that responding to him is… In Vayne! /cannedlaughter

He does play though, I saw him in Timberline Falls once. Maybe a month ago.

Dunno why we’re so worried about GW2’s stats on xfire/etc. Is it just fun to speculate?

I remember you. lol

Fernling.1729:

I actually haven’t noticed people saying the game is dead or will be dead in a year. I’ve seen people saying that not as many people are playing, or it’s less as time goes on, but that is to be expected of just about every single game/mmo. I truly haven’t seen someone claiming it’s dead in quite awhile. I’m sure there are some scattered around, but I haven’t noticed any.

When I started this thread, there were two posts about the game being dead on the first page.

Vayne.8563:

What they said was problems with early player retention. I knew what they were talking about.

Yes, exactly. Problems with player retention.

Thanks, Vayne.

Vayne.8563:

juno.1840:

Vayne.8563:

juno.1840:

Wow this topic is of no value — other than a soap box for Vayne (not that he needs any more of those, you’d think his feet are getting tired by now).

I think GW2 is doing fine. It’s not nearly as busy as when it launched two years ago. You can argue that’s expected.

So If the point of this thread is to say “GW2 is not dead”, then sure, I agree. However I wouldn’t try and say it’s doing better than it was two years, or even just one year ago.

But again, who cares — it’s not important, other than for kitten satisfaction at who can craft the best argument in a useless topic.

Except that people are saying it’s dying and that it will be dead in a year. No one is arguing it has more people than launch. That’s a fool’s errand.

But since people do seem to be saying the game is actually dying and won’t be here in a year, I think it’s worth pointing out the counterpoint.

How come when people repeatedly say the game is dying or going to die, you don’t say they’re on a soap box. Sounds remarkably like bias to me.

Because nobody sermonizes as much as you do in these forums. Look at this topic, it’s like 45% vayne posts. Even your name sounds like “vain”.

That aside, you’re spending a lot of time arguing a pointless topic (which u also created). Do you even play GW2 any more?

Track my achievement points and you’ll figure out if I play or not. As I’ve said many times before, I’m in a US guild but I live in Australia. I post here when people are sleeping. I play Guild Wars 2 during my day. So lots of time to post.

No one sermonizes as much as me? lol Okay. Maybe it’s because there are 20 people saying unprovable things as fact, and there are not as many people willing to stand up to them. Many disagree, but not everyone posts.

And since I’m replying in this thread to people who are replying to me (because it’s my thread) why wouldn’t I reply.

I have 10500 achievement points, but I only play a few hours a week, and take weeks off at a time. I’m sure achievement points don’t reflect how much you play now. That aside, i’ll get on topic.

The reason I find this post completely pointless is because:

1. Does not improve the game in any fashion. Does not give suggestions to the dev team, does not discuss new content ideas nor new mechanics.

2. Does not help the player base in any way. It’s not a guide, does not answer any play related questions, etc.

You powerful use of written word would benefit gw2 society more if used for other causes.

Fernling.1729:

I actually haven’t noticed people saying the game is dead or will be dead in a year.

Mostly that are those players that want to turn the game into a totally different
direction .. like :
- we need harcore content / raids else the game will be dead
-we need open PvP / Duelz in open world, else game will be dead
-giff mounts, else game is dead ..

Beldin.5498:

Fernling.1729:

I actually haven’t noticed people saying the game is dead or will be dead in a year.

Mostly that are those players that want to turn the game into a totally different
direction .. like :
- we need harcore content / raids else the game will be dead
-we need open PvP / Duelz in open world, else game will be dead
-giff mounts, else game is dead ..

Or the more popular we need expansions or the game is dead. Even the standard of these expansions is pretty high requiring new races, classes, a whole continent, traits, skills for all classes, new weapon types, armors, wvw overhaul, pvp game modes and more. Oh and they want all this at regular intervals, a year or less.
Some people live in a fantasy world.

juno.1840:

Vayne.8563:

juno.1840:

Vayne.8563:

juno.1840:

Wow this topic is of no value — other than a soap box for Vayne (not that he needs any more of those, you’d think his feet are getting tired by now).

I think GW2 is doing fine. It’s not nearly as busy as when it launched two years ago. You can argue that’s expected.

So If the point of this thread is to say “GW2 is not dead”, then sure, I agree. However I wouldn’t try and say it’s doing better than it was two years, or even just one year ago.

But again, who cares — it’s not important, other than for kitten satisfaction at who can craft the best argument in a useless topic.

Except that people are saying it’s dying and that it will be dead in a year. No one is arguing it has more people than launch. That’s a fool’s errand.

But since people do seem to be saying the game is actually dying and won’t be here in a year, I think it’s worth pointing out the counterpoint.

How come when people repeatedly say the game is dying or going to die, you don’t say they’re on a soap box. Sounds remarkably like bias to me.

Because nobody sermonizes as much as you do in these forums. Look at this topic, it’s like 45% vayne posts. Even your name sounds like “vain”.

That aside, you’re spending a lot of time arguing a pointless topic (which u also created). Do you even play GW2 any more?

Track my achievement points and you’ll figure out if I play or not. As I’ve said many times before, I’m in a US guild but I live in Australia. I post here when people are sleeping. I play Guild Wars 2 during my day. So lots of time to post.

No one sermonizes as much as me? lol Okay. Maybe it’s because there are 20 people saying unprovable things as fact, and there are not as many people willing to stand up to them. Many disagree, but not everyone posts.

And since I’m replying in this thread to people who are replying to me (because it’s my thread) why wouldn’t I reply.

I have 10500 achievement points, but I only play a few hours a week, and take weeks off at a time. I’m sure achievement points don’t reflect how much you play now. That aside, i’ll get on topic.

The reason I find this post completely pointless is because:

1. Does not improve the game in any fashion. Does not give suggestions to the dev team, does not discuss new content ideas nor new mechanics.

2. Does not help the player base in any way. It’s not a guide, does not answer any play related questions, etc.

You powerful use of written word would benefit gw2 society more if used for other causes.

First of all, you can see my achievement points go up daily, often by more than just the amount of the daily if you checked it over time. Not that it matters, because I don’t care whether you believe I play or not.

Secondly, it’s absolutely important that people who don’t know any better don’t think the game is dying, or close to dying. You may not think that’s important (and you’re free not to read posts about it if that’s the case) but that doesn’t make it unimportant.

A lot of people won’t even look at a game if they think it’s dying, and since some people post they think it is, providing at least some indication that it’s not isn’t useless, it’s useful. Far more useful than adding a comment on a thread about the condition system, since whatever needs to be said about that has already been said by someone else.

In the end, you don’t get to be the ultimate arbiter on what is and isn’t useful and calling someone else’s post useless doesn’t do a thing for your arguments.

Vayne.8563:

Fernling.1729:

I actually haven’t noticed people saying the game is dead or will be dead in a year. I’ve seen people saying that not as many people are playing, or it’s less as time goes on, but that is to be expected of just about every single game/mmo. I truly haven’t seen someone claiming it’s dead in quite awhile. I’m sure there are some scattered around, but I haven’t noticed any.

When I started this thread, there were two posts about the game being dead on the first page.

Maybe you’re a bit too sensitive. I honestly don’t see that many people even complaining about the game being dead in this post. (of course, your going to nit pick and find 1 or 2 counter post to argue other wise).

Like telling people you are totally not a white knight because you make 1 or 2 post complaining about the trait system, and another 9000 post defending Anet.

Vayne.8563:

A lot of people won’t even look at a game if they think it’s dying

“Seek the source.” ~ King Reza

It’s Anet’s fault. Of late they have been implementing a surfeit of CPR stuff like megaserver, the trait system redesign, NPE, and whatever the heck they were trying to prove with the recent gem store shenanigans. So if people are (still) saying the game is dying, they’re saying it (now, mostly) because of Anet’s ongoing resuscitative behavior.

When the cows are starving, repainting the barn isn’t going to save them.

Vayne.8563:

juno.1840:

Vayne.8563:

juno.1840:

Vayne.8563:

juno.1840:

Wow this topic is of no value — other than a soap box for Vayne (not that he needs any more of those, you’d think his feet are getting tired by now).

I think GW2 is doing fine. It’s not nearly as busy as when it launched two years ago. You can argue that’s expected.

So If the point of this thread is to say “GW2 is not dead”, then sure, I agree. However I wouldn’t try and say it’s doing better than it was two years, or even just one year ago.

But again, who cares — it’s not important, other than for kitten satisfaction at who can craft the best argument in a useless topic.

Except that people are saying it’s dying and that it will be dead in a year. No one is arguing it has more people than launch. That’s a fool’s errand.

But since people do seem to be saying the game is actually dying and won’t be here in a year, I think it’s worth pointing out the counterpoint.

How come when people repeatedly say the game is dying or going to die, you don’t say they’re on a soap box. Sounds remarkably like bias to me.

Because nobody sermonizes as much as you do in these forums. Look at this topic, it’s like 45% vayne posts. Even your name sounds like “vain”.

That aside, you’re spending a lot of time arguing a pointless topic (which u also created). Do you even play GW2 any more?

Track my achievement points and you’ll figure out if I play or not. As I’ve said many times before, I’m in a US guild but I live in Australia. I post here when people are sleeping. I play Guild Wars 2 during my day. So lots of time to post.

No one sermonizes as much as me? lol Okay. Maybe it’s because there are 20 people saying unprovable things as fact, and there are not as many people willing to stand up to them. Many disagree, but not everyone posts.

And since I’m replying in this thread to people who are replying to me (because it’s my thread) why wouldn’t I reply.

I have 10500 achievement points, but I only play a few hours a week, and take weeks off at a time. I’m sure achievement points don’t reflect how much you play now. That aside, i’ll get on topic.

The reason I find this post completely pointless is because:

1. Does not improve the game in any fashion. Does not give suggestions to the dev team, does not discuss new content ideas nor new mechanics.

2. Does not help the player base in any way. It’s not a guide, does not answer any play related questions, etc.

You powerful use of written word would benefit gw2 society more if used for other causes.

First of all, you can see my achievement points go up daily, often by more than just the amount of the daily if you checked it over time. Not that it matters, because I don’t care whether you believe I play or not.

Secondly, it’s absolutely important that people who don’t know any better don’t think the game is dying, or close to dying. You may not think that’s important (and you’re free not to read posts about it if that’s the case) but that doesn’t make it unimportant.

A lot of people won’t even look at a game if they think it’s dying, and since some people post they think it is, providing at least some indication that it’s not isn’t useless, it’s useful. Far more useful than adding a comment on a thread about the condition system, since whatever needs to be said about that has already been said by someone else.

In the end, you don’t get to be the ultimate arbiter on what is and isn’t useful and calling someone else’s post useless doesn’t do a thing for your arguments.

Unless my argument is “this post is pointless”… then I have to say it by the nature of making said argument.

I also don’t care if you play or not — I was mostly making humor about how you spend a lot of time in these forums on your various crusades when you could be playing GW2 instead. To a lesser degree I wanted to illuminate that having lots of achievement points doesn’t equate to “active player”.

Lastly I think you put too much value in how much anything in these specific forums influence players in general. These forums are really for pushing ideas, suggestions, complaints, etc. back to ANet. That’s the primary purpose. There’s also the occasional “players helping players” type of posts which have value. This post is neither and simply wasting storage space on the forum server. Lastly there’s ANets feedback to the players, but there are arguably better channels for that information.

Vayne.8563:

juno.1840:

Because nobody sermonizes as much as you do in these forums. Look at this topic, it’s like 45% vayne posts. Even your name sounds like “vain”.

That aside, you’re spending a lot of time arguing a pointless topic (which u also created). Do you even play GW2 any more?

… snip …
No one sermonizes as much as me? lol Okay. Maybe it’s because there are 20 people saying unprovable things as fact, and there are not as many people willing to stand up to them. Many disagree, but not everyone posts.

And since I’m replying in this thread to people who are replying to me (because it’s my thread) why wouldn’t I reply.

Maybe the fact you have to reply (and very few others are replying for you) suggests that this topic is useless. Sort of like self bumping you know.

I wouldn’t be spouting off too much on how players are pushing “unprovable things as fact”… that’s a double edged sword and I’m sure you’ve cut yourself already.

Two big titles of the past and the new trends of the overhyped ones we have today:
http://tinyurl.com/mmocurves

I doubt that curves are how they are due to the lack of competition in the past, all I see today is the lack strategies to build customer loyalty and the increase of fast money grabbing tricks.

I don’t know if customers are becoming dumb, I know for sure I often feel treated (in the mmorpg industry) like I am a giant dumb and that’s why my loyalty is almost non-existent right now.

Beldin.5498:

Fernling.1729:

I actually haven’t noticed people saying the game is dead or will be dead in a year.

Mostly that are those players that want to turn the game into a totally different
direction .. like :
- we need harcore content / raids else the game will be dead
-we need open PvP / Duelz in open world, else game will be dead
-giff mounts, else game is dead ..

Oh .. and here we go again btw.:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Saving-Guild-Wars-2-ideas/first#post4522007

Open PvP will once again “save” the game this time

Erick Alastor.3917:

Two big titles of the past and the new trends of the overhyped ones we have today:
http://tinyurl.com/mmocurves

I doubt that curves are how they are due to the lack of competition in the past, all I see today is the lack strategies to build customer loyalty and the increase of fast money grabbing tricks.

I don’t know if customers are becoming dumb, I know for sure I often feel treated (in the mmorpg industry) like I am a giant dumb and that’s why my loyalty is almost non-existent right now.

that is really interesting. It kinda shows that wildstar never really had a chance at being a big boy, the amount of people who knew of it, and looked it up was never even high. Right before release, it reached aion levels of interest, which is a pretty bad starting point for a game.

However if the game was more appealing they wouldnt have had the sharp drop of at the least.

btw when you put wow online game you get an insanely big interest spike that behaves totally differently
http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=%2Fm%2F064ln09%2C%20%2Fm%2F021dvx%2C%20%2Fm%2F02q25c_%2C%20%2Fm%2F0h55krg%2C%20%2Fm%2F026653&cmpt=q

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

Fernling.1729:

I actually haven’t noticed people saying the game is dead or will be dead in a year. I’ve seen people saying that not as many people are playing, or it’s less as time goes on, but that is to be expected of just about every single game/mmo. I truly haven’t seen someone claiming it’s dead in quite awhile. I’m sure there are some scattered around, but I haven’t noticed any.

When I started this thread, there were two posts about the game being dead on the first page.

Maybe you’re a bit too sensitive. I honestly don’t see that many people even complaining about the game being dead in this post. (of course, your going to nit pick and find 1 or 2 counter post to argue other wise).

Like telling people you are totally not a white knight because you make 1 or 2 post complaining about the trait system, and another 9000 post defending Anet.

I don’t make 9000 posts defending Anet. I probably made close to that debunking things that are wrong or things that are overstated.

That doesn’t really equal defending Anet. You don’t get me at all and you don’t have to.

But if everyone on these forums was saying the game was amazing, I’d be pointing out the flaws. It’s called balance.

The forum needs more of it.

juno.1840:

Vayne.8563:

juno.1840:

Because nobody sermonizes as much as you do in these forums. Look at this topic, it’s like 45% vayne posts. Even your name sounds like “vain”.

That aside, you’re spending a lot of time arguing a pointless topic (which u also created). Do you even play GW2 any more?

… snip …
No one sermonizes as much as me? lol Okay. Maybe it’s because there are 20 people saying unprovable things as fact, and there are not as many people willing to stand up to them. Many disagree, but not everyone posts.

And since I’m replying in this thread to people who are replying to me (because it’s my thread) why wouldn’t I reply.

Maybe the fact you have to reply (and very few others are replying for you) suggests that this topic is useless. Sort of like self bumping you know.

I wouldn’t be spouting off too much on how players are pushing “unprovable things as fact”… that’s a double edged sword and I’m sure you’ve cut yourself already.

I’m sorry but what I’m saying is provable. Guild Wars 2 is in fact #11 on Xfire at the time I’m typing this. It does change. That’s a fact. Anet didn’t lay off people when the rest of NCsoft West did. That’s a fact.

I’m presenting the other side of a story. It’s easy for people to say the game is dead, with no proof whatsoever.

I’m presenting the other side of the story. And yes, I will reply to posts like this. You don’t really have to reply to my posts if you don’t like them.

Vayne.8563:

But if everyone on these forums was saying the game was amazing, I’d be pointing out the flaws. It’s called balance.

The forum needs more of it.

Oh, so you’re a contrarian.

Good to know.

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

But if everyone on these forums was saying the game was amazing, I’d be pointing out the flaws. It’s called balance.

The forum needs more of it.

Oh, so you’re a contrarian.

Good to know.

Only if what’s being said is grossly overstated or demonstrably false.

Vayne.8563:

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

But if everyone on these forums was saying the game was amazing, I’d be pointing out the flaws. It’s called balance.

The forum needs more of it.

Oh, so you’re a contrarian.

Good to know.

Only if what’s being said is grossly overstated or demonstrably false.

You just said that you’d be pointing out flaws if the forums were positive.

You’re a contrarian.

That’s all there is to it.

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

But if everyone on these forums was saying the game was amazing, I’d be pointing out the flaws. It’s called balance.

The forum needs more of it.

Oh, so you’re a contrarian.

Good to know.

Only if what’s being said is grossly overstated or demonstrably false.

You just said that you’d be pointing out flaws if the forums were positive.

You’re a contrarian.

That’s all there is to it.

I said, and this is where the reading bit comes in: “if EVERYONE on these forums was saying the game was great.”

Obviously that would be a huge overstatement. No one would be pointing out flaws. I always look for what’s missing or needed and do that bit. That’s what I’ve done all my life.

Right now, there’s balance missing from these forums. Too many willing to complain about the littlest stuff, with very little credit given when credit is due.

That’s not really a contrarian, no matter what you say.

Vayne.8563:

I said, and this is where the reading bit comes in: “if EVERYONE on these forums was saying the game was great.”

Ah, so it just requires everyone. Well, since everyone on this forum doesn’t say the game sucks, your so called “balance” isn’t required.

You can stop being a contrarian, now.

Vayne.8563:

I always look for what’s missing or needed and do that bit. That’s what I’ve done all my life.

So you’re a contrarian.

Vayne.8563:

Right now, there’s balance missing from these forums.

It’s hilarious that you believe this.

Vayne.8563:

Too many willing to complain about the littlest stuff, with very little credit given when credit is due.

Credit is never “due” because credit being “due” is completely subjective, as the credit itself is subjective.

Vayne.8563:

That’s not really a contrarian, no matter what you say.

adjective
adjective: contrarian

1.
opposing or rejecting popular opinion; going against current practice.

You are very much a contrarian on these forums. And worse yet, you’re not doing it because you believe in any of it. You’re doing it because a “balance is needed”.

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

I said, and this is where the reading bit comes in: “if EVERYONE on these forums was saying the game was great.”

Ah, so it just requires everyone. Well, since everyone on this forum doesn’t say the game sucks, your so called “balance” isn’t required.

You can stop being a contrarian, now.

Vayne.8563:

I always look for what’s missing or needed and do that bit. That’s what I’ve done all my life.

So you’re a contrarian.

Vayne.8563:

Right now, there’s balance missing from these forums.

It’s hilarious that you believe this.

Vayne.8563:

Too many willing to complain about the littlest stuff, with very little credit given when credit is due.

Credit is never “due” because credit being “due” is completely subjective, as the credit itself is subjective.

Vayne.8563:

That’s not really a contrarian, no matter what you say.

adjective
adjective: contrarian

1.
opposing or rejecting popular opinion; going against current practice.

You are very much a contrarian on these forums. And worse yet, you’re not doing it because you believe in any of it. You’re doing it because a “balance is needed”.

But I’m not going against public opinion simple because it’s public opinion. I’m going against what I consider to be unfair, and in that sense, I’m not being contrary.

If I was, why would I agree with the complaints against the new trait system. I agree with those because I believe them to be fair…some of them aren’t fairly expressed, but there’s not much point in arguing those, because the it wouldn’t help anyone.

However, arguing against people who are saying the game is dying makes sense, because it’s not.

Vayne.8563:

very little credit given when credit is due.

Yea that gem shop rip-off is truly a nugget of design brilliance. Much like the NEP and the trait redesign!

Nice arguing semantics again btw. As per usual, of course. Gotta bent language itself to fit it to your version of reality.

To those who claim no one is saying the game is dying, here’s a post from another thread by Gimp:

How to fix grind wars gamble sim 2:
1) copy GW1
2) profit lol
Merge all your dead servers ANet, I can’t even WvW on mine. You aren’t fooling anyone with your megaserver, the game is dying no doubt.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Vayne.8563:

I always look for what’s missing or needed and do that bit. That’s what I’ve done all my life.

Well, it would appear you’ve ‘missed’ a whole lot in that search of yours.

Vayne.8563:

very little credit given when credit is due.

Yea that gem shop rip-off is truly a nugget of design brilliance. Much like the NEP and the trait redesign!

Oh good, more off topic stuff that doesn’t change a word I’ve said.

Of course I’ve missed stuff. You can’t find everything. Logic should tell you that.

I don’t think anyone needs to spend money in the gem store to play this game…maybe you should check out some really invasive gem stores and then comment.

No one would be forced to play challenging content either and yet there you were, arguing how people would feel ‘compelled’ and ‘forced’ to play it just because.

Also, I love to see you admit that you support harmful changes at the player’s expense (simply by abstaining from expressing your opinion on the subject, mind you) , such as is the gem purchase change. It truly speaks volumes.

On a side note, the post about you missing a whole lot was actually aimed at the rl part rather than the forums, but I figured it’d be overboard, so I removed it.

KarlaGrey.5903:

No one would be forced to play challenging content either and yet there you were, arguing how people would feel ‘compelled’ and ‘forced’ to play it just because.

Also, I love to see you admit that you support harmful changes at the player’s expense (simply by abstaining from expressing your opinion on the subject, mind you) , such as is the gem purchase change. It truly speaks volumes.

On a side note, the post about you missing a whole lot was actually aimed at the rl part rather than the forums, but I figured it’d be overboard, so I removed it.

I commented on the gem purchase change and I was against it. So I’d appreciate it if you stop spreading misinformation.

If I see that a topic is being covered fairly, I generally don’t have to add my voice to it, because it’s being handled. I’m just saying what other people are saying anyway.

I try to say stuff that others aren’t saying that I think is correct. Not sure why that’s so hard to understand.

You merely said you had nothing to add, iirc, unless you posted again after 20th page.
However, as I’m sure you know, by not expressing a voice of agreement, it signals how you are also not in disagreement with it.

I’m just saying what other people are saying anyway.

And contrarians don’t do that.

I try to say stuff that others aren’t saying that I think is correct. Not sure why that’s so hard to understand.

So am I. Not sure why that’s so hard to understand either.

KarlaGrey.5903:

You merely said you had nothing to add, iirc, unless you posted again after 20th page.
However, as I’m sure you know, by not expressing a voice of agreement, it signals how you are also not in disagreement with it.

I’m just saying what other people are saying anyway.

And contrarians don’t do that.

I try to say stuff that others aren’t saying that I think is correct. Not sure why that’s so hard to understand.

So am I. Not sure why that’s so hard to understand either.

Except that often the stuff you’re saying completely ignores the topic (as in this case), is actually incorrect, and is often overstated.

I understand that you’re disappointed with the game. I understand you see me as a white knight and will pretty much try to discredit me any way you can.

But it’s not really helping the game, or the topic.

I know no game will stay around in the long term with such malicious mistreatment and disregard of its playerbase.
The game killed off most of the good will it had built up with the predecessor, and continues to sail in a direction that is quite different to the design choices and goals that attracted a large portion of their past clients. If you believe the NPE will help save the day, or that good will is being built somewhere secretly, then that’s your call.

I, like everyone else here, honestly don’t need to do much to discredit you, as you do that just fine all on your own. In this very thread.

Much like juno stated above, I find this thread completely pointless, other than to argue for argument’s sake.

(it’s also funny how there’s no lock in sight simply because this is a GW2 support thread)

KarlaGrey.5903:

I know no game will stay around in the long term with such malicious mistreatment and disregard of its playerbase.
The game killed off most of the good will it had built up with the predecessor, and continues to sail in a direction that is quite different to the design choices and goals that attracted a large portion of their past clients. If you believe the NPE will help save the day, or that good will is being built somewhere secretly, then that’s your call.

I, like everyone else here, honestly don’t need to do much to discredit you, as you do that just fine all on your own. In this very thread.

Much like juno stated above, I find this thread completely pointless, other than to argue for argument’s sake.

(it’s also funny how there’s no lock in sight simply because this is a GW2 support thread)

First of all, you calling a thread pointless doesn’t make it so. I’ve felt many of your posts were pointless, but I’ve never said so, because it’s just my opinion. Saying a thread is pointless is your opinion…but it’s not helpful or constructive.

Secondly, not everyone is feeling equally disenfranchised. There are people who are certainly. And it’s extremely possible that that group is larger than it was a year ago. But that doesn’t mean it’s most players. I still think most players are unaware of the stuff that goes on on the forums and on reddit.

I think that the bulk of the playerbase logs in and plays and has a good time or doesn’t.

I also think there’s not a decent MMO coming out on the horizon and Anet has time to work on an expansion.

I kind of can understand why Vayne spend so much of his time spaming on forums.

Negative forum posts do have an impact on new players and their willingness to try the game.

Maybe Vayne felt he need to neutralize all the negative comments, so it won’t scare new players away.

What a pity they will never be able to read all this anti-negativity, because foruming is plain ‘too confusing’.

at vaine, juno gave rock-solid arguments as to why this thread is useless. Just because you chose to ignore them does not make them go away.

Vayne.8563:

I also think there’s not a decent MMO coming out on the horizon and Anet has time to work on an expansion.

It doesn’t have to be a new MMO that could be a ‘danger’, it could also be an existing MMO that actually gave us content.
Yesterday, patch 2.4 in FF14 launched. No expansion, just a ‘regular’ content patch. It gave us a new class. A whole new class. New crafting recipes. Wont type the list here. Expansion announced for spring 2015. People know what road this game is taking, and what to expect. Something to look forward to, like a whole new race and zone.

The thing is, I’m just on a normal populated(in ff14 terms) world, in a normal sized guild. Yesterday, if you would walk around in the city that has the new classes’ guild, you could see it was swarming with new players. Our guild recruited 7 new players yesterday. And guess what? 4 of them had JUST quitted GW2. Reason? Same reason a lot of people complain about. No actual new content here, no new classes, races, weapons, zones, dungeons.. the list goes on and on.

The thing is, like I said before, I’m not on a super populated world, and my guild is’nt super big or something. But the fact that 4 out of 7 players left GW2 for the EXACT same reason says much. I mean really much.

So I don’t think Anet has all the ‘time’ to work on an expansion.