Tracking Guild Wars 2
I also think there’s not a decent MMO coming out on the horizon and Anet has time to work on an expansion.
It doesn’t have to be a new MMO that could be a ‘danger’, it could also be an existing MMO that actually gave us content.
Yesterday, patch 2.4 in FF14 launched. No expansion, just a ‘regular’ content patch. It gave us a new class. A whole new class. New crafting recipes. Wont type the list here. Expansion announced for spring 2015. People know what road this game is taking, and what to expect. Something to look forward to, like a whole new race and zone.The thing is, I’m just on a normal populated(in ff14 terms) world, in a normal sized guild. Yesterday, if you would walk around in the city that has the new classes’ guild, you could see it was swarming with new players. Our guild recruited 7 new players yesterday. And guess what? 4 of them had JUST quitted GW2. Reason? Same reason a lot of people complain about. No actual new content here, no new classes, races, weapons, zones, dungeons.. the list goes on and on.
The thing is, like I said before, I’m not on a super populated world, and my guild is’nt super big or something. But the fact that 4 out of 7 players left GW2 for the EXACT same reason says much. I mean really much.
So I don’t think Anet has all the ‘time’ to work on an expansion.
You know what? I recruited four players for my guild on the first day they last time Anet had a half price sale. Look at that, four new players.
It doesn’t matter that people leave this game. Not everyone is willing to pay a sub. Not everyone likes traditional MMOs, and not everyone likes Final Fantasy.
People leave games all the time. Everything is new and shiny.
I’ve had people leave my guild to play FF and come back.
I’m not what you think you’re proving.
I also think there’s not a decent MMO coming out on the horizon and Anet has time to work on an expansion.
It doesn’t have to be a new MMO that could be a ‘danger’, it could also be an existing MMO that actually gave us content.
Yesterday, patch 2.4 in FF14 launched. No expansion, just a ‘regular’ content patch. It gave us a new class. A whole new class. New crafting recipes. Wont type the list here. Expansion announced for spring 2015. People know what road this game is taking, and what to expect. Something to look forward to, like a whole new race and zone.The thing is, I’m just on a normal populated(in ff14 terms) world, in a normal sized guild. Yesterday, if you would walk around in the city that has the new classes’ guild, you could see it was swarming with new players. Our guild recruited 7 new players yesterday. And guess what? 4 of them had JUST quitted GW2. Reason? Same reason a lot of people complain about. No actual new content here, no new classes, races, weapons, zones, dungeons.. the list goes on and on.
The thing is, like I said before, I’m not on a super populated world, and my guild is’nt super big or something. But the fact that 4 out of 7 players left GW2 for the EXACT same reason says much. I mean really much.
So I don’t think Anet has all the ‘time’ to work on an expansion.
You know what? I recruited four players for my guild on the first day they last time Anet had a half price sale. Look at that, four new players.
It doesn’t matter that people leave this game. Not everyone is willing to pay a sub. Not everyone likes traditional MMOs, and not everyone likes Final Fantasy.
People leave games all the time. Everything is new and shiny.
I’ve had people leave my guild to play FF and come back.
I’m not what you think you’re proving.
The fact that they all left for the same reasons does say alot, whether you like it or not.
I also think there’s not a decent MMO coming out on the horizon and Anet has time to work on an expansion.
It doesn’t have to be a new MMO that could be a ‘danger’, it could also be an existing MMO that actually gave us content.
Yesterday, patch 2.4 in FF14 launched. No expansion, just a ‘regular’ content patch. It gave us a new class. A whole new class. New crafting recipes. Wont type the list here. Expansion announced for spring 2015. People know what road this game is taking, and what to expect. Something to look forward to, like a whole new race and zone.The thing is, I’m just on a normal populated(in ff14 terms) world, in a normal sized guild. Yesterday, if you would walk around in the city that has the new classes’ guild, you could see it was swarming with new players. Our guild recruited 7 new players yesterday. And guess what? 4 of them had JUST quitted GW2. Reason? Same reason a lot of people complain about. No actual new content here, no new classes, races, weapons, zones, dungeons.. the list goes on and on.
The thing is, like I said before, I’m not on a super populated world, and my guild is’nt super big or something. But the fact that 4 out of 7 players left GW2 for the EXACT same reason says much. I mean really much.
So I don’t think Anet has all the ‘time’ to work on an expansion.
You know what? I recruited four players for my guild on the first day they last time Anet had a half price sale. Look at that, four new players.
It doesn’t matter that people leave this game. Not everyone is willing to pay a sub. Not everyone likes traditional MMOs, and not everyone likes Final Fantasy.
People leave games all the time. Everything is new and shiny.
I’ve had people leave my guild to play FF and come back.
I’m not what you think you’re proving.
The fact that they all left for the same reasons does say alot, whether you like it or not.
I never denied people were leaving for reasons. But that doesn’t mean they’re going to stay where they go either.
The grass is always greener on the other side. I’ve seen people leave for ESO, Wildstar, Neverwinter and FF, and many have come back.
If a thousand people leave this game, and a thousand people start playing it, the game is stable. That’s pretty much what’s happening.
But new players have a lot more content to get through and it takes longer. So they’ll be here longer.
We have a new zone coming out on November 4th (or more of a zone at least). We don’t really know the future.
But I’m thinking an expansion is coming.
What makes you think when that expansion hits, people won’t leave FF to play it?
I kind of can understand why Vayne spend so much of his time spaming on forums.
Negative forum posts do have an impact on new players and their willingness to try the game.
Maybe Vayne felt he need to neutralize all the negative comments, so it won’t scare new players away.
This is a part of it, but it’s not all of it. It’s not just new players.
Do you know how many people I know who like the game have stopped posting on these forums because of the toxicity?
If we all did it, there’d be no one but the people who complain left. It’s not that everyone is equally disenfranchised. It’s that people hate being called fan boys or being insulted or being called blind. They don’t enjoy it. They’re happy playing game.
Those people I know, no longer have a voice here. But that doesn’t mean their opinions aren’t valid.
Someone should present the other side of the story.
I never denied people were leaving for reasons. But that doesn’t mean they’re going to stay where they go either.
The grass is always greener on the other side. I’ve seen people leave for ESO, Wildstar, Neverwinter and FF, and many have come back.
If a thousand people leave this game, and a thousand people start playing it, the game is stable. That’s pretty much what’s happening.
But new players have a lot more content to get through and it takes longer. So they’ll be here longer.
We have a new zone coming out on November 4th (or more of a zone at least). We don’t really know the future.
But I’m thinking an expansion is coming.
What makes you think when that expansion hits, people won’t leave FF to play it?
This isn’t about whether they leave and may or may not come back, it’s about that people leave for a very perticular reason that should be alarming.
Like you said, people switch products because they got ‘bored’ with one product, and the want the exciting things a new product gives. That’s normal, but when you have a reason this perticular, and it’s not just 1 customer, I would be alarmed.
And like you said, you THINK a gw2 expansion may hit. We don’t know. We are uncertain. I wouldn’t trust my car to someone who may or may not have his drivers license. I would trust my car to someone I know has his driver’s license etc. etc.
The not-knowing where this game is going is already alarming, but hey, that’s their stupid policy.
And I don’t think when a thousand people leave this game, a thousand come back for it. And that is based on personal in-game experience. Like guilds, map chats and the fact megaserver was in introduced to hide the fact that this game is shrinking. And I’m not the only one with this experience.
I kind of can understand why Vayne spend so much of his time spaming on forums.
Negative forum posts do have an impact on new players and their willingness to try the game.
Maybe Vayne felt he need to neutralize all the negative comments, so it won’t scare new players away.
This is a part of it, but it’s not all of it. It’s not just new players.
Do you know how many people I know who like the game have stopped posting on these forums because of the toxicity?
If we all did it, there’d be no one but the people who complain left. It’s not that everyone is equally disenfranchised. It’s that people hate being called fan boys or being insulted or being called blind. They don’t enjoy it. They’re happy playing game.
Those people I know, no longer have a voice here. But that doesn’t mean their opinions aren’t valid.
Someone should present the other side of the story.
Well, get back to the main topic, I dont’ think that many people are claiming the game is dying.
But I do think many people are complaining about the game being stale, veterans losing interest in the game.
People are presenting you another side of the story too. When I walk into other game’s forum, I didnt’ see a bunch of people complaining about veterans lossing interest. Maybe it is something Anet should be concerned of.
That being said, I think Anet know of the issue, and they are probably working hard to deliver, but is just slow on pace.
I never denied people were leaving for reasons. But that doesn’t mean they’re going to stay where they go either.
The grass is always greener on the other side. I’ve seen people leave for ESO, Wildstar, Neverwinter and FF, and many have come back.
If a thousand people leave this game, and a thousand people start playing it, the game is stable. That’s pretty much what’s happening.
But new players have a lot more content to get through and it takes longer. So they’ll be here longer.
We have a new zone coming out on November 4th (or more of a zone at least). We don’t really know the future.
But I’m thinking an expansion is coming.
What makes you think when that expansion hits, people won’t leave FF to play it?
This isn’t about whether they leave and may or may not come back, it’s about that people leave for a very perticular reason that should be alarming.
Like you said, people switch products because they got ‘bored’ with one product, and the want the exciting things a new product gives. That’s normal, but when you have a reason this perticular, and it’s not just 1 customer, I would be alarmed.And like you said, you THINK a gw2 expansion may hit. We don’t know. We are uncertain. I wouldn’t trust my car to someone who may or may not have his drivers license. I would trust my car to someone I know has his driver’s license etc. etc.
The not-knowing where this game is going is already alarming, but hey, that’s their stupid policy.
And I don’t think when a thousand people leave this game, a thousand come back for it. And that is based on personal in-game experience. Like guilds, map chats and the fact megaserver was in introduced to hide the fact that this game is shrinking. And I’m not the only one with this experience.
Except that there are other reasons for a mega server besides shrinking populations. ESO LAUNCHED with a megaserver. It’s more efficient technology. It costs less to run. And it allows more zones to be introduced not leaving others ghost towns.
I never denied people were leaving for reasons. But that doesn’t mean they’re going to stay where they go either.
The grass is always greener on the other side. I’ve seen people leave for ESO, Wildstar, Neverwinter and FF, and many have come back.
If a thousand people leave this game, and a thousand people start playing it, the game is stable. That’s pretty much what’s happening.
But new players have a lot more content to get through and it takes longer. So they’ll be here longer.
We have a new zone coming out on November 4th (or more of a zone at least). We don’t really know the future.
But I’m thinking an expansion is coming.
What makes you think when that expansion hits, people won’t leave FF to play it?
This isn’t about whether they leave and may or may not come back, it’s about that people leave for a very perticular reason that should be alarming.
Like you said, people switch products because they got ‘bored’ with one product, and the want the exciting things a new product gives. That’s normal, but when you have a reason this perticular, and it’s not just 1 customer, I would be alarmed.And like you said, you THINK a gw2 expansion may hit. We don’t know. We are uncertain. I wouldn’t trust my car to someone who may or may not have his drivers license. I would trust my car to someone I know has his driver’s license etc. etc.
The not-knowing where this game is going is already alarming, but hey, that’s their stupid policy.
And I don’t think when a thousand people leave this game, a thousand come back for it. And that is based on personal in-game experience. Like guilds, map chats and the fact megaserver was in introduced to hide the fact that this game is shrinking. And I’m not the only one with this experience.
Except that there are other reasons for a mega server besides shrinking populations. ESO LAUNCHED with a megaserver. It’s more efficient technology. It costs less to run. And it allows more zones to be introduced not leaving others ghost towns.
Like you say, besides. Population IS shrinking in a lot of people minds.
And the fact that you are dodging my other arguments and NOT responds to them, which you normally always do with walls of meaningless counterargements, already says enough.
But saying a thread is useless isn’t really helping anyone. It’s not constructive.
If a thread is breaking forum rules, by all means report it. But your opinion on a topic being useless isn’t particularly useful.
The company PR rhetoric is strong in you, I see.
Presenting bogus evidence to counter a wide-spread opinion isn’t helping anyone either. It’s unconstructive at best, and plain misleading at worst.
Obviously Anet won’t be closing threads in their support, even if they’re pure fanfiction.
RIP ‘gf left me coz of ladderboard’ Total views: 71,688 Total posts: 363
I never denied people were leaving for reasons. But that doesn’t mean they’re going to stay where they go either.
The grass is always greener on the other side. I’ve seen people leave for ESO, Wildstar, Neverwinter and FF, and many have come back.
If a thousand people leave this game, and a thousand people start playing it, the game is stable. That’s pretty much what’s happening.
But new players have a lot more content to get through and it takes longer. So they’ll be here longer.
We have a new zone coming out on November 4th (or more of a zone at least). We don’t really know the future.
But I’m thinking an expansion is coming.
What makes you think when that expansion hits, people won’t leave FF to play it?
This isn’t about whether they leave and may or may not come back, it’s about that people leave for a very perticular reason that should be alarming.
Like you said, people switch products because they got ‘bored’ with one product, and the want the exciting things a new product gives. That’s normal, but when you have a reason this perticular, and it’s not just 1 customer, I would be alarmed.And like you said, you THINK a gw2 expansion may hit. We don’t know. We are uncertain. I wouldn’t trust my car to someone who may or may not have his drivers license. I would trust my car to someone I know has his driver’s license etc. etc.
The not-knowing where this game is going is already alarming, but hey, that’s their stupid policy.
And I don’t think when a thousand people leave this game, a thousand come back for it. And that is based on personal in-game experience. Like guilds, map chats and the fact megaserver was in introduced to hide the fact that this game is shrinking. And I’m not the only one with this experience.
Except that there are other reasons for a mega server besides shrinking populations. ESO LAUNCHED with a megaserver. It’s more efficient technology. It costs less to run. And it allows more zones to be introduced not leaving others ghost towns.
Like you say, besides. Population IS shrinking in a lot of people minds.
And the fact that you are dodging my other arguments and NOT responds to them, which you normally always do with walls of meaningless counterargements, already says enough.
But people dodge my arguments all the time. People leaving <> population shrinking. That’s one of the biggest misnomers I’ve seen. It doesn’t matter that people leave, that’s my point. People leave games all the time.
And no one has yet given me a good reason why Anet has had zero layoffs when the rest of NCsoft was suffering. That doesn’t sound like a shrinking population or a dying game to me.
But saying a thread is useless isn’t really helping anyone. It’s not constructive.
If a thread is breaking forum rules, by all means report it. But your opinion on a topic being useless isn’t particularly useful.
The company PR rhetoric is strong in you, I see.
Presenting bogus evidence to counter a wide-spread opinion isn’t helping anyone either. It’s unconstructive at best, and plain misleading at worst.
Obviously Anet won’t be closing threads in their support, even if they’re pure fanfiction.
My evidence isn’t bogus just because you say so. It’s certainly stronger than yours.
Nor is your evidence not bogus just because you say so.
RIP ‘gf left me coz of ladderboard’ Total views: 71,688 Total posts: 363
Nor is your evidence not bogus just because you say so.
I agree. My evidence is not bogus or bogus based on what I say or what you say. However, if this game was doing so badly, no one seems to be able to answer why all the rest of NcSoft had layoffs and Guild Wars 2 didn’t. Just seems to me that would be a clear indication.
I never denied people were leaving for reasons. But that doesn’t mean they’re going to stay where they go either.
The grass is always greener on the other side. I’ve seen people leave for ESO, Wildstar, Neverwinter and FF, and many have come back.
If a thousand people leave this game, and a thousand people start playing it, the game is stable. That’s pretty much what’s happening.
But new players have a lot more content to get through and it takes longer. So they’ll be here longer.
We have a new zone coming out on November 4th (or more of a zone at least). We don’t really know the future.
But I’m thinking an expansion is coming.
What makes you think when that expansion hits, people won’t leave FF to play it?
This isn’t about whether they leave and may or may not come back, it’s about that people leave for a very perticular reason that should be alarming.
Like you said, people switch products because they got ‘bored’ with one product, and the want the exciting things a new product gives. That’s normal, but when you have a reason this perticular, and it’s not just 1 customer, I would be alarmed.And like you said, you THINK a gw2 expansion may hit. We don’t know. We are uncertain. I wouldn’t trust my car to someone who may or may not have his drivers license. I would trust my car to someone I know has his driver’s license etc. etc.
The not-knowing where this game is going is already alarming, but hey, that’s their stupid policy.
And I don’t think when a thousand people leave this game, a thousand come back for it. And that is based on personal in-game experience. Like guilds, map chats and the fact megaserver was in introduced to hide the fact that this game is shrinking. And I’m not the only one with this experience.
Except that there are other reasons for a mega server besides shrinking populations. ESO LAUNCHED with a megaserver. It’s more efficient technology. It costs less to run. And it allows more zones to be introduced not leaving others ghost towns.
Like you say, besides. Population IS shrinking in a lot of people minds.
And the fact that you are dodging my other arguments and NOT responds to them, which you normally always do with walls of meaningless counterargements, already says enough.But people dodge my arguments all the time. People leaving <> population shrinking. That’s one of the biggest misnomers I’ve seen. It doesn’t matter that people leave, that’s my point. People leave games all the time.
And no one has yet given me a good reason why Anet has had zero layoffs when the rest of NCsoft was suffering. That doesn’t sound like a shrinking population or a dying game to me.
Yeah, other people do that. I thought you saw yourself as the great white leader of the vocal minority that does enjoy the game. You always counterargument everything, and when you don’t, like I said, that says alot.
And I’m not gonna quote myself again, but people leaving games is fine. That’s not troublesome. BUT when people leave a game with the same wide-spread opinion, it IS troublesome.
Just like I said a couple of posts back…
I honestly can’t believe this thread is still active.
OP in numerous posts chastises others for trying to make predictions about the game’s health without having access to ANet’s actual data. OP makes a thread predicting the game’s health without having access to ANet’s actual data. OP sees nothing wrong with his actions, even trying to paint himself as some champion of the silent majority.
That is why this thread is so utterly worthless (plus the dubious validity of source “data” being referenced).
I can’t believe you’d waste your valuable time posting in an utterly worthless thread. I think many things said on this forum are worthless…but you know what? I’m sure the people who posted them and other people see value in them.
There are people who see value in this. But a thread doesn’t open or close on your values.
Thanks for not addressing the crux of what I said. This is why people get so frustrated trying to have a dialogue with you. You’re far more interested in preaching than in actually responding to the points people make.
Look at this thread as an example. There are people who fundamentally agree with your point that the game is not dying, but because of the manner in which you present that point, you’ve alienated them. Now, some of your would-be-supporters are actually arguing against you, not because of your message, but because of the way you chose to deliver it. If you’re trying to counter-balance the negativity on the forums, you’re undermining your own efforts.
But people dodge my arguments all the time.
Perfect example here. You go and criticize people for a behavior you’re guilty of no more than a handful of posts earlier.
As for my “valuable” time, I don’t happen to be inconvenienced by the 20 seconds it takes to post.
I honestly can’t believe this thread is still active.
OP in numerous posts chastises others for trying to make predictions about the game’s health without having access to ANet’s actual data. OP makes a thread predicting the game’s health without having access to ANet’s actual data. OP sees nothing wrong with his actions, even trying to paint himself as some champion of the silent majority.
That is why this thread is so utterly worthless (plus the dubious validity of source “data” being referenced).
I can’t believe you’d waste your valuable time posting in an utterly worthless thread. I think many things said on this forum are worthless…but you know what? I’m sure the people who posted them and other people see value in them.
There are people who see value in this. But a thread doesn’t open or close on your values.
Thanks for not addressing the crux of what I said. This is why people get so frustrated trying to have a dialogue with you. You’re far more interested in preaching than in actually responding to the points people make.
Look at this thread as an example. There are people who fundamentally agree with your point that the game is not dying, but because of the manner in which you present that point, you’ve alienated them. Now, some of your would-be-supporters are actually arguing against you, not because of your message, but because of the way you chose to deliver it. If you’re trying to counter-balance the negativity on the forums, you’re undermining your own efforts.
As for my “valuable” time, I don’t happen to be inconvenienced by the 20 seconds it takes to post.
I’ve already address that in previous posts. I don’t really need to repeat myself.
I don’t need Anet’s data to see trends.
When you see three separate sites that track software, and they all indicate about the same thing, it’s an indication. How you can not see it as an indication as absolutely beyond me.
Sure data from Anet would be preferable. But they won’t give us that data whether they’re successful or not. There’s a reason for this…a business reason. If you give the information when you’re successful and suddenly you’re not, you have to stop giving the information and everyone will then know the game is going down hill. By not giving that information you’re not setting yourself up for possible future failure. You don’t set that kind of precedent, at least smart businesses don’t.
The sites I posted are all independent of each other. It’s extremely likely they have different users. No real reason to use two of those sites.
Therefore, three different independent sources are all saying about the same thing.
We can extrapolate something from that when you add in other facts. The number of people on Guild Wars 2 reddit, the number of people who search for Guild Wars 2 as compared to other games, and the fact that Anet hasn’t had a mass layoff.
Everyone wants to point to individual details but that’s not how one builds a case.
You say I ignore what you said, and didn’t answer. Everything in my response is in other posts in this thread. You’ve ignored my posts…I’ve already answered yours.
I kind of can understand why Vayne spend so much of his time spaming on forums.
Negative forum posts do have an impact on new players and their willingness to try the game.
Maybe Vayne felt he need to neutralize all the negative comments, so it won’t scare new players away.
A lofty and noble goal, indeed! Unfortunately, the implementation serves mostly to keep negative forum posts displayed prominently on the first page of the General Discussion section, which, if I was a potential new player, would be the first place I’d look for any negative comments. Thus, the goal is negated by the method employed, perhaps in unconscious imitation of that being defended, for how often have we seen anet proudly proclaim that an update was intended to do one thing when it ultimately achieved almost precisely the opposite? (See: Trait System Redesign)
As to the impending (or not) demise of GW2, the game still has sufficient momentum remaining from previous compellingly impelling triumphs to keep rolling along for a while yet, although if new impetus is not added the friction caused by recent developments (some might say ‘anti-developments’) may indeed bring matters, alas! — to sadly premature grinding halt.
Time will tell! It always does. The ultimate tattle-tale.
“We are all interested in the future, for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. And remember, my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.” ~ Criswell
So true.
The table is a fable.
Why does any of this matter to a player? Is this really that important of an issue to be preached over an over?
If ArenaNet feels they need to share the factual statistics regarding activity, units purchased, etc., then they will. To try and theorize activity based on any 3rd party account is purely speculation. It’s really that simple.
Furthermore, battling over which game has more activity is plain malarkey. X game has more people than Y game because of Z. Y game sucks. Let’s work to provide criticism or applause on game-play issues, rather than irrelevant statistics.
Does any of this effect game mechanics or the lore? Is the game less enjoyable simply because x amount of people dislike the game? What sense does that even make?
There are plenty of issues and concerns that could be addressed, but this isn’t one of them, I can assure you.
Sure data from Anet would be preferable. But they won’t give us that data whether they’re successful or not. There’s a reason for this…a business reason. If you give the information when you’re successful and suddenly you’re not, you have to stop giving the information and everyone will then know the game is going down hill. By not giving that information you’re not setting yourself up for possible future failure. You don’t set that kind of precedent, at least smart businesses don’t.
This game is going downhill. Remember last year how proudly they showed us the statistics. Given A-net attitude to everything, they would be doing the same this year. They are so proud of even the smallest things they do. They blow up even the simplest QoL change that isn’t even worth mentioning in other MMO’s, but here they act like they reïnvented the wheel when they bring us a simple QoL change.
So given their attitude, them NOT giving us the numbers is already a slight indication that things are going bad. And even worse than the ‘normal’ flow of things would be, because else they would have showed it us anyway with their kitteny attitude and just say: Yeah, this is the normal flow of data for a mmo that has been around for 2 years.
They give us nothing. And if they show us nothing, despite their kittenyness, already says enough…
Sure data from Anet would be preferable. But they won’t give us that data whether they’re successful or not. There’s a reason for this…a business reason. If you give the information when you’re successful and suddenly you’re not, you have to stop giving the information and everyone will then know the game is going down hill. By not giving that information you’re not setting yourself up for possible future failure. You don’t set that kind of precedent, at least smart businesses don’t.
This game is going downhill. Remember last year how proudly they showed us the statistics. Given A-net attitude to everything, they would be doing the same this year. They are so proud of even the smallest things they do. They blow up even the simplest QoL change that isn’t even worth mentioning in other MMO’s, but here they act like they reïnvented the wheel when they bring us a simple QoL change.
So given their attitude, them NOT giving us the numbers is already a slight indication that things are going bad. And even worse than the ‘normal’ flow of things would be, because else they would have showed it us anyway with their kitteny attitude and just say: Yeah, this is the normal flow of data for a mmo that has been around for 2 years.
They give us nothing. And if they show us nothing, despite their kittenyness, already says enough…
Anet tried showing us stuff and it blew up in their face. You may not agree, but many have said it before me. It’s enough of a reason to be stingy with the information you provide.
And Anet has always had a history of over-reacting.
Why does any of this matter to a player? Is this really that important of an issue to be preached over an over?
If ArenaNet feels they need to share the factual statistics regarding activity, units purchased, etc., then they will. To try and theorize activity based on any 3rd party account is purely speculation. It’s really that simple.
Furthermore, battling over which game has more activity is plain malarkey. X game has more people than Y game because of Z. Y game sucks. Let’s work to provide criticism or applause on game-play issues, rather than irrelevant statistics.
Does any of this effect game mechanics or the lore? Is the game less enjoyable simply because x amount of people dislike the game? What sense does that even make?
There are plenty of issues and concerns that could be addressed, but this isn’t one of them, I can assure you.
You’re saying it matters to no players? That there are no players interested in how the game is doing? I find that really hard to believe.
YOU may not be interested, in which case, there’s probably no reason to post in this thread. None at all.
Players of MMOs are notoriously interested in how many people are playing it. You see this question all the time on Reddit. I want to start the game but I want to make sure that there are still people playing.
No one wants to play a dead MMO. So yeah, it’s interesting to players.
And yes, the evidence is pretty compelling, even if specific individuals don’t want to see it. In fact, some of them could just be trolling.
We’ve been told by Anet that some people who claim not to play the game, regularly log in.
I must say, I’ve been following this thread actively. Simply for the sheer fact of it that people automatically say the opposite of Vayne no matter what. This is highly amusing. You cannot provide evidence of why you believe what you do, so instead you try to discredit Vayne who is firing back with the evidence of why he thinks as he does.
Keep at it, someday one persons mind might change. Also, very interesting information to think on about the health of the game. I was pleasantly surprised indeed. Not that I thought the game was in any danger really, just the amount of people saying they leave, and the amount of people I see still online often now that I think about it is quite sharp.
-It’s Lady Paradox- Sweet Adrenaline
“What Part Of Living Says You Gotta Die?
I Plan On Burnin Through Another 9 Lives”
“What Part Of Living Says You Gotta Die?
I Plan On Burnin Through Another 9 Lives”
I must say, I’ve been following this thread actively. Simply for the sheer fact of it that people automatically say the opposite of Vayne no matter what. This is highly amusing. You cannot provide evidence of why you believe what you do, so instead you try to discredit Vayne who is firing back with the evidence of why he thinks as he does.
Keep at it, someday one persons mind might change. Also, very interesting information to think on about the health of the game. I was pleasantly surprised indeed. Not that I thought the game was in any danger really, just the amount of people saying they leave, and the amount of people I see still online often now that I think about it is quite sharp.
Like KarlaGrey said: PvP in here is better than in-game
Keep at it, someday one persons mind might change. Also, very interesting information to think on about the health of the game. I was pleasantly surprised indeed. Not that I thought the game was in any danger really, just the amount of people saying they leave, and the amount of people I see still online often now that I think about it is quite sharp.
Those are the person who are severely addicted, probably have a few thousands playing hours and wondering why they felt the game getting staled.
The problem I have with these sort of tools is very few people even use these tools. Xfire is pretty much saying there are only 50 concurrent players that is using xfire and playing GW2 at the same time.
And raptr and overwolf never even release how many data they manage to collect per month, that’s why people discredit them.
Keep at it, someday one persons mind might change. Also, very interesting information to think on about the health of the game. I was pleasantly surprised indeed. Not that I thought the game was in any danger really, just the amount of people saying they leave, and the amount of people I see still online often now that I think about it is quite sharp.
Those are the person who are severely addicted, probably have a few thousands playing hours and wondering why they felt the game getting staled.
The problem I have with these sort of tools is very few people even use these tools. Xfire is pretty much saying there are only 50 concurrent players that is using xfire and playing GW2 at the same time.
And raptr and overwolf never even release how many data they manage to collect per month, that’s why people discredit them.
I’mn talking about people on this forum that shout to the mountains that they are quitting, have quit, etc. I have started putting several of them on my Friends List just to watch and I am amazed at people that I see online A Lot. Not just intermittently like that are checking.. but on for hours at a time and often.
-It’s Lady Paradox- Sweet Adrenaline
“What Part Of Living Says You Gotta Die?
I Plan On Burnin Through Another 9 Lives”
“What Part Of Living Says You Gotta Die?
I Plan On Burnin Through Another 9 Lives”
I must say, I’ve been following this thread actively. Simply for the sheer fact of it that people automatically say the opposite of Vayne no matter what. This is highly amusing. You cannot provide evidence of why you believe what you do, so instead you try to discredit Vayne who is firing back with the evidence of why he thinks as he does.
Keep at it, someday one persons mind might change. Also, very interesting information to think on about the health of the game. I was pleasantly surprised indeed. Not that I thought the game was in any danger really, just the amount of people saying they leave, and the amount of people I see still online often now that I think about it is quite sharp.
Like KarlaGrey said: PvP in here is better than in-game
Yeah. KarlaGray said s/he no longer plays the game and will never play this game again. Kind of pointless PvP imo and someone who hasn’t played in who knows when is always suspect when they state their (stale) opinions about game population.
Keep at it, someday one persons mind might change. Also, very interesting information to think on about the health of the game. I was pleasantly surprised indeed. Not that I thought the game was in any danger really, just the amount of people saying they leave, and the amount of people I see still online often now that I think about it is quite sharp.
Those are the person who are severely addicted, probably have a few thousands playing hours and wondering why they felt the game getting staled.
The problem I have with these sort of tools is very few people even use these tools. Xfire is pretty much saying there are only 50 concurrent players that is using xfire and playing GW2 at the same time.
And raptr and overwolf never even release how many data they manage to collect per month, that’s why people discredit them.
I’mn talking about people on this forum that shout to the mountains that they are quitting, have quit, etc. I have started putting several of them on my Friends List just to watch and I am amazed at people that I see online A Lot. Not just intermittently like that are checking.. but on for hours at a time and often.
They complain on the forums because they care. If they didn’t, they’d just quit without saying anything.
I would say you are more likely to see them online than your normal friend list whom when quit really never came back.
Why does any of this matter to a player? Is this really that important of an issue to be preached over an over?
If ArenaNet feels they need to share the factual statistics regarding activity, units purchased, etc., then they will. To try and theorize activity based on any 3rd party account is purely speculation. It’s really that simple.
Furthermore, battling over which game has more activity is plain malarkey. X game has more people than Y game because of Z. Y game sucks. Let’s work to provide criticism or applause on game-play issues, rather than irrelevant statistics.
Does any of this effect game mechanics or the lore? Is the game less enjoyable simply because x amount of people dislike the game? What sense does that even make?
There are plenty of issues and concerns that could be addressed, but this isn’t one of them, I can assure you.
You’re saying it matters to no players? That there are no players interested in how the game is doing? I find that really hard to believe.
YOU may not be interested, in which case, there’s probably no reason to post in this thread. None at all.
Players of MMOs are notoriously interested in how many people are playing it. You see this question all the time on Reddit. I want to start the game but I want to make sure that there are still people playing.
No one wants to play a dead MMO. So yeah, it’s interesting to players.
And yes, the evidence is pretty compelling, even if specific individuals don’t want to see it. In fact, some of them could just be trolling.
We’ve been told by Anet that some people who claim not to play the game, regularly log in.
Please don’t construe my words. ( I never stated that “no players care”.)
The fact of the matter is this is a multimillion unit selling MMO that is only a little over two years old, with an active fan base. Unless player activeness is directly effecting game-play regularly, then it’s irrelevant.
I can understand if players express concerns about activeness if they are having trouble completing an event that requires x amount of players, but are not able to fill the requirement. That being said, there are tools provided (LFG Tool, Guilds, Map Chat), that are designed to help a player fulfill a party or requirement. If a player is still unable to fulfill the requirement, then concern should exist on the aforementioned.
To conclude,
Fluctuation exists in all healthy populated MMOs; which is a given. A population decline to the point of effecting game-play should be a concern and properly noted. However, ArenaNet has the ability and personnel to tackles issues such as these and handles them as they see fit and when/if the case arises.
Hopefully we can all get back to providing feedback on game design issues now.
man…this thread….
Vayne, I can see your passion in all this…
But I really think there has to be some kind of understanding that, if the tables were turned, and the OP was a kind of ‘Anti-Vayne’. (for lack of a better term) You’d be the first one dismissing their information with the same passion you have reinforcing your original post.
Many-a-time you’ve stated that no-one knows numbers unless you work for Anet or have access to their servers – and if you don’t then it’s pure speculation regardless of your information.
And how often you’ve dismissed, and continue to dismiss people that oppose you on the weak statistics and sources – surely it’s only fair if people dismiss the information you’ve brought up?
Keep at it, someday one persons mind might change. Also, very interesting information to think on about the health of the game. I was pleasantly surprised indeed. Not that I thought the game was in any danger really, just the amount of people saying they leave, and the amount of people I see still online often now that I think about it is quite sharp.
Those are the person who are severely addicted, probably have a few thousands playing hours and wondering why they felt the game getting staled.
The problem I have with these sort of tools is very few people even use these tools. Xfire is pretty much saying there are only 50 concurrent players that is using xfire and playing GW2 at the same time.
And raptr and overwolf never even release how many data they manage to collect per month, that’s why people discredit them.
I’mn talking about people on this forum that shout to the mountains that they are quitting, have quit, etc. I have started putting several of them on my Friends List just to watch and I am amazed at people that I see online A Lot. Not just intermittently like that are checking.. but on for hours at a time and often.
They complain on the forums because they care. If they didn’t, they’d just quit without saying anything.
I would say you are more likely to see them online than your normal friend list whom when quit really never came back.
This isn’t completely provable. Some people may very well complain because they care. Other people, however, like to troll and don’t really care. They simply post because they think it’s fun to rile people up. I’m not saying that’s necessarily the case with people in this thread, but there are definitely people that come to forums for no other reason than to annoy “fan boys”.
Aside from that, some people lie outright to make points. We have it straight from Anet that there are people who claim they don’t log in, who still log in.
That’s why I try to go to external sites that are independent of me and Anet to get some kind of data and it’s why more than a single source is required to prove anything.
man…this thread….
Vayne, I can see your passion in all this…
But I really think there has to be some kind of understanding that, if the tables were turned, and the OP was a kind of ‘Anti-Vayne’. (for lack of a better term) You’d be the first one dismissing their information with the same passion you have reinforcing your original post.
Many-a-time you’ve stated that no-one knows numbers unless you work for Anet or have access to their servers – and if you don’t then it’s pure speculation regardless of your information.
And how often you’ve dismissed, and continue to dismiss people that oppose you on the weak statistics and sources – surely it’s only fair if people dismiss the information you’ve brought up?
Well, it’s quite quite that way. I’m happy to see some kind of evidence for what it is.
If Anet had been laying off people (instead of hiring them) that would be a clear indication the game is not meeting expectations.
Do you know why I’ve waited so long to post threads like this? Because I only used to follow Raptr and didn’t know about Overwolf or Xfire’s lists. So I didn’t feel that a single source was really a good thing.
I believed that it gave an indication, but until I started seeing more…I wasn’t really ready to stick my neck out.
I did post the Raptr info a couple of times, but always with a disclaimer. Then I learned about Overwolf, which is probably busier than Raptr. And then a friend reminded me of Xfire. At that point, I felt I had enough to push the point.
See, that’s what historians do to figure stuff out. They look for multiple corroborating points that have different sources. That’s how I learned to research.
Any single point of reference is always going to be questionable. And two points of reference with the same source, suffer the same problem. But here we have three data points. We have google trends. We have 400 plus people regularly on Reddit, but also over 600 on patch days, at least what I’ve been seeing.
So yes, there are multiple points of data that show the game isn’t really in any kind of trouble. The difference is, I’m not a source in this conversation. This isn’t my opinion. This is stuff I’ve researched.
I’m happy to look at anyone’s research when there’s evidence to back it up. I’m not happy to sit there and watch people say stuff (sometimes over and over) that’s not necessarily true.
Because nobody sermonizes as much as you do in these forums. Look at this topic, it’s like 45% vayne posts. Even your name sounds like “vain”.
That aside, you’re spending a lot of time arguing a pointless topic (which u also created). Do you even play GW2 any more?
… snip …
No one sermonizes as much as me? lol Okay. Maybe it’s because there are 20 people saying unprovable things as fact, and there are not as many people willing to stand up to them. Many disagree, but not everyone posts.And since I’m replying in this thread to people who are replying to me (because it’s my thread) why wouldn’t I reply.
Maybe the fact you have to reply (and very few others are replying for you) suggests that this topic is useless. Sort of like self bumping you know.
I wouldn’t be spouting off too much on how players are pushing “unprovable things as fact”… that’s a double edged sword and I’m sure you’ve cut yourself already.
I’m sorry but what I’m saying is provable. Guild Wars 2 is in fact #11 on Xfire at the time I’m typing this. It does change. That’s a fact. Anet didn’t lay off people when the rest of NCsoft West did. That’s a fact.
I’m presenting the other side of a story. It’s easy for people to say the game is dead, with no proof whatsoever.
I’m presenting the other side of the story. And yes, I will reply to posts like this. You don’t really have to reply to my posts if you don’t like them.
Assuming you data is factual, it doesn’t factually prove anything. — correlation is all you’re doing. Your defense isn’t any better than other people’s offense.
I’ve already stated I don’t think the game is dead… I just logged off from playing tonight. However what the game is, is different for every person. That’s yet one more reason you’re wasting your time with this junk topic.
Why don’t you contribute to one of the threads that’s actually helpful? There’s a great one in the BLTP forum regarding way to improve RNG.
I seriously believe u use the forums to practice debate rather than improve gw2 or help other players.
Part of me thinks that someone in ANet was thinking “hey, wanna see something funny? Watch this…”
Because nobody sermonizes as much as you do in these forums. Look at this topic, it’s like 45% vayne posts. Even your name sounds like “vain”.
That aside, you’re spending a lot of time arguing a pointless topic (which u also created). Do you even play GW2 any more?
… snip …
No one sermonizes as much as me? lol Okay. Maybe it’s because there are 20 people saying unprovable things as fact, and there are not as many people willing to stand up to them. Many disagree, but not everyone posts.And since I’m replying in this thread to people who are replying to me (because it’s my thread) why wouldn’t I reply.
Maybe the fact you have to reply (and very few others are replying for you) suggests that this topic is useless. Sort of like self bumping you know.
I wouldn’t be spouting off too much on how players are pushing “unprovable things as fact”… that’s a double edged sword and I’m sure you’ve cut yourself already.
I’m sorry but what I’m saying is provable. Guild Wars 2 is in fact #11 on Xfire at the time I’m typing this. It does change. That’s a fact. Anet didn’t lay off people when the rest of NCsoft West did. That’s a fact.
I’m presenting the other side of a story. It’s easy for people to say the game is dead, with no proof whatsoever.
I’m presenting the other side of the story. And yes, I will reply to posts like this. You don’t really have to reply to my posts if you don’t like them.
Assuming you data is factual, it doesn’t factually prove anything. — correlation is all you’re doing. Your defense isn’t any better than other people’s offense.
I’ve already stated I don’t think the game is dead… I just logged off from playing tonight. However what the game is, is different for every person. That’s yet one more reason you’re wasting your time with this junk topic.
Why don’t you contribute to one of the threads that’s actually helpful? There’s a great one in the BLTP forum regarding way to improve RNG.
I seriously believe u use the forums to practice debate rather than improve gw2 or help other players.
How about you stop wasting time in this junk thread and contribute to other topics. At this point, I’m only replying to people. You’re part of the problem, not the solution.
So I can look forward to seeing one of your suggestions soon in the RNG topic?
Part of me thinks that someone in ANet was thinking “hey, wanna see something funny? Watch this…”
How about you stop wasting time in this junk thread and contribute to other topics. At this point, I’m only replying to people. You’re part of the problem, not the solution.
“Be the change that you wish to see in the world.”
— Mahatma Gandhi
Nalhadia – Kaineng
How about you stop wasting time in this junk thread and contribute to other topics. At this point, I’m only replying to people. You’re part of the problem, not the solution.
“Be the change that you wish to see in the world.”
— Mahatma Gandhi
I change the game from the inside. My chances of changing the forums are relatively minimal. I spend time in game helping new players, answering questions, being a good samaritan. Explaining strats at big events to people who don’t know.
How about you stop wasting time in this junk thread and contribute to other topics. At this point, I’m only replying to people. You’re part of the problem, not the solution.
“Be the change that you wish to see in the world.”
— Mahatma Gandhi
I change the game from the inside. My chances of changing the forums are relatively minimal. I spend time in game helping new players, answering questions, being a good samaritan. Explaining strats at big events to people who don’t know.
wow you cannot draw in this forum
Nalhadia – Kaineng
How about you stop wasting time in this junk thread and contribute to other topics. At this point, I’m only replying to people. You’re part of the problem, not the solution.
“Be the change that you wish to see in the world.”
— Mahatma Gandhi
I change the game from the inside. My chances of changing the forums are relatively minimal. I spend time in game helping new players, answering questions, being a good samaritan. Explaining strats at big events to people who don’t know.
wow you cannot draw in this forum
Picture made sense to me.
The point flew right over his head. Much like it always does.
How about you stop wasting time in this junk thread and contribute to other topics. At this point, I’m only replying to people. You’re part of the problem, not the solution.
“Be the change that you wish to see in the world.”
— Mahatma Gandhi
I change the game from the inside. My chances of changing the forums are relatively minimal. I spend time in game helping new players, answering questions, being a good samaritan. Explaining strats at big events to people who don’t know.
wow you cannot draw in this forum
Picture made sense to me.
The point flew right over his head. Much like it always does.
I was reading fast, between PvP tournaments. Kitten happens.
I was reading fast, between PvP tournaments. Kitten happens.
Hey that’s your problem. Not mine.
You’re the publisher/store owner/grammar magician/english professor/jack of all trades that managed to fail to take the time to properly read.
Explaining strats at big events to people who don’t know.
Strats and Teles are easy to explain. Jazzmasters? A little more complicated, sure, but still no biggie. Jaguars, on the other hand…
Ya know, they should bring back the air guitar emotes. And all the other air instruments. That was cool.
Anyway, back on track.
The table is a fable.
I was reading fast, between PvP tournaments. Kitten happens.
Hey that’s your problem. Not mine.
You’re the publisher/store owner/grammar magician/english professor/jack of all trades that managed to fail to take the time to properly read.
LMAO! You obviously never worked with an editor before.
Editors read hundreds/thousands of things a day. Reading all the time. Reading fast.
I’m not paid to read these forums and I pay a lot less attention to people who are openly antagonistic.
When you’re paid to edit, you minimize distraction, you sit down, and double check everything. When you’re reading in your own time you skim and you’re right well over 95% of the time. Do you miss stuff? Sure.
Every single book has typos in it, even though it’s read by authors and editors. How much more so for something you’re doing casually.
And you’re right, it’s not your problem. But it’s not my problem either. Anyone who thinks editors are perfect has never had to work with one.
-post-
And normally? I would agree with you.
But you’re the one that constantly likes to tout your experiences in the apparently millions of various fields you’ve participated in, in order for your words to hold more weight.
So if you wanna be taken seriously? Expect to be held to a higher standard.
-post-
And normally? I would agree with you.
But you’re the one that constantly likes to tout your experiences in the apparently millions of various fields you’ve participated in, in order for your words to hold more weight.
So if you wanna be taken seriously? Expect to be held to a higher standard.
Totally disingenuous.
I don’t constantly do anything. I usually only bring it up when it specifically pertains to a matter. So if we’re talking about story or dialogue, sure I bring it up. And three fields isn’t millions, but aside from that, I don’t really care what standards anyone wants to hold me to.
Mostly I try to reasonable in what I say. Nothing I’ve said in this thread is unreasonable. However, many of the response I’ve gotten are quite unreasonable. Including this one.
Totally disingenuous.
Hilarious coming from you.
This isn’t completely provable. Some people may very well complain because they care. Other people, however, like to troll and don’t really care. They simply post because they think it’s fun to rile people up. I’m not saying that’s necessarily the case with people in this thread, but there are definitely people that come to forums for no other reason than to annoy “fan boys”.
I dont’ think they are trolling. Many people complain about the game getting stale and lack of meaningful content. That is especially true for veterans and addicted gamers who play too much.
I myself included. I’m playing another game at the moment because GW2 along can’t provide me enough content to stay put. I still log on GW2 and do daily and fractals. But I used to only play GW2, now I play other games too.
This isn’t completely provable. Some people may very well complain because they care. Other people, however, like to troll and don’t really care. They simply post because they think it’s fun to rile people up. I’m not saying that’s necessarily the case with people in this thread, but there are definitely people that come to forums for no other reason than to annoy “fan boys”.
I dont’ think they are trolling. Many people complain about the game getting stale and lack of meaningful content. That is especially true for veterans and addicted gamers who play too much.
I myself included. I’m playing another game at the moment because GW2 along can’t provide me enough content to stay put. I still log on GW2 and do daily and fractals. But I used to only play GW2, now I play other games too.
I didn’t say everyone is trolling but that doesn’t mean no one is. Sometimes it’s not so easy to tell them apart.
Totally disingenuous.
Hilarious coming from you.
Enough with the personal attacks. If you have something to add to the conversation by all means add it. If you can’t do anything but talk about me, you should probably not be posting.
Enough with the personal attacks.
After you.
If you have something to add to the conversation by all means add it.
The numbers are meaningless. Your data is just as suspect as the “dead game” crowd.
I don’t care if it’s three data points. None of them are official data points. None of them are official ANet sources.
But let’s say that you’re officially right and the game is doing fine and your sources are some kind of supremely solid proof.
Congrats! You’ve changed…-absolutely nothing- about these forums or the game as a whole! You’ve affected nothing at all by presenting these numbers.
People that feel like the game is dying will still feel as such, and will most likely still say as such. And any new players that come to these forums likely won’t care about the numbers, since if they’re coming to the forums, they probably have some kind of problem with the game to begin with.
Said problem might even be that they feel like the game is dead. Or lack of mounts, or whatever.
Your data is, frankly, useless for two reasons. The first is that it’s an unofficial source that only includes people that actively use a specific type of program.
The second reason is that you’re presenting this data in order to combat remarks that are, on a whole, most likely subjective. And due to their subjective nature, you presenting this data isn’t likely to change any minds because you can scream about how the game is fine til you’re blue in the face (and boy have you)…
But those numbers are going to be 100% meaningless to the person who has lost their entire guild three or more times from members leaving (or whatever example you please).
Posting these numbers on the forums doesn’t help the game one bit. It doesn’t make the game -feel- more alive. It doesn’t answer burning questions about SAB/mounts/traits/moogles/tiddlywinks. It doesn’t help the communication problems ANet has been having. And it fails to provide any kind of useful or meaningful feedback to ANet about their product and what they could or could not do to make it even more of a fun experience for newbies and vets alike. It certainly doesn’t bring the GW2 community closer together.
If you can’t do anything but talk about me, you should probably not be posting.
You should never be posting. Things were better without you, quite frankly.