Guild Wars 2

I wonder why the playerbase wasn’t up in arms about the ‘projected profit’ in the current TP? Probably should have asked for this change long ago, maybe it would have been added to the new UI. /shrug

WGuardian.1028:

Lishtenbird.2814:

Then just remove the total price (which is only important to buyers) and replace it with total profit, which is what is most important to every seller (and seller is that very person who’s using the sell panel, not the buyer).

So u wnat to enter not the “price per unit” in sell tab but “profit per unit”.

No no no we should go to the armoury, I mean that I want to input the price per unit (which makes total sense as I can see other prices in the bottom part of the screen), but the largest price which says “total price” can be replaced by “total profit”, because there’s no point for me, seller, to know how much it will cost someone else per several items; I as a seller want to know how much I would get totally with the current price and the current amount.

Didn’t get it right.

Lishtenbird.2814:

…. “total price” can be replaced by “total profit”, because there’s no point for me, seller, to know how much it will cost someone else per several items; I as a seller want to know how much I would get totally with the current price and the current amount.

I’m totaly ok with this solution

DDCarvalho.2071:

<snip>

Now the next point of improvement in the game: include downvote buttons on the forums so we can sink whiny people who never say anything constructive (and upvotes to give focus to good ideas and constructive criticism).

Yes, please!

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I wonder why the playerbase wasn’t up in arms about the ‘projected profit’ in the current TP? Probably should have asked for this change long ago, maybe it would have been added to the new UI. /shrug

Probably because a large portion of the playerbase (myself included) were under the impression that projected profit was how much you’d receive in the mailbox. I believe that it was in a sense correct though? the listing fee got taken from your current gold and then the 10% tax got taken when it sold so projected profit was how much showed up?

Though it didn’t really represent the true cost of selling an item and alot of people didn’t take that into account.

Gummy.4278:

The one thing that I always wanted and suggested was being able to sell to the highest Buy Order and let the tp take the fees when the sale was completed, letting you pick up the difference. So that if you had a high dollar item to sale you could benefit from it without farming for days just to pay listings before you could even put the item up for sale. If you was trying to get best price then paying upfront fees for listing a Sale Order would be required.
I was told that the way the TP works they could not do this by a Dev, that they would have to rework the entire way the TP worked for that and it was not gonna happen. Yet they did rework it but lazily just left that same old way of handling the fees in there. To me it just make more sense to do it the way I suggest.

I like the new improvements but still wish this one feature had come with the updates to the TP as well. This would have been the cherry on the top. Guess this is never gonna see the light of day.

Agreed, your suggestion is a great solution to the problem. Substract the listing fee of your profit when you’ve sold the item.

I’d be curious to see if it has any impact on items where the player would get more money selling to the merchant rather than the tp once all of the fees are taken out e.g thick leather though at 1c difference it may not matter to most players.

Curtis Johnson.8456:

You can match any current buyer by clicking their order price. No typing required.

Thank you, that’s quite helpful.

I really appreciate this update.
As some other users pointed out, it’s clear that a lot of work went into it.

I would indeed like to see the “final” projected profit when I sell something; I’m glad you guys at Anet are considering it, but a part of me wishes you didn’t decide against it in the first place (since you discussed it).

By the way, thank you Curtis Johnson for taking the time to answer our questions.
When I noticed the lack of the projected profit in the screen I got kinda worried (like many other players), but seeing someone from ANet involved in the thread reassured me greatly.

Would it be acceptable to just have Net Profit show as a tooltip when we hover over the other numbers?

Gulesave.5073:

Would it be acceptable to just have Net Profit show as a tooltip when we hover over the other numbers?

No offense, but it seems a bit counterintuitive.

I like the tooltip idea, but I would use in a different way, which I’m gonna explain below.

Right now the NTP shows
1- the price at which you sell the item
2- the listing fee (-5%)
3- the sale tax (-10%)
A lot of users would like to also see
4- the final profit (0.85)

It would be really cool if, by hovering with the mouse over each of these value, a tooltip appeared, explaining what that value is.

The tooltips would read as such, respectively:
1- “This is the amount of coin your buyer needs to pay”
2- “This fee will be subtracted from you wallet, in order to list your item”
3- “This tax will be applied once you sell the item”
4- “This is the neat amount of coin you earn after this sale”

This way even the most clueless new player knows exactly what’s going on!

Lishtenbird.2814:

Behellagh.1468:

And there isn’t aesthetically room for a third piece of information in that layout.

Here you go.

For me, the extra space there looks exactly like something to put “projected profit” into.

(Also, while making these images, I once again saw that having leading zeros would’ve been really good for improving clarity).

I really like the way image #2 shows how much it will all cost and how it fits.

Maxwell.7843:

This way even the most clueless new player knows exactly what’s going on!

Yes, exactly. A tool tip would be great; but the important thing is that there needs to be an entry line that shows net proceeds.

Maybe they intentionally left that off because they know that when players realize how much money they’ve been leaving on the table with the invisible arbitrage fee that most players don’t know is there, the market for mats is going to surge. I, for one, have stopped listing stuff on the AH. I’ll just start storing mats in guild banks, rather than have to do the math to figure out if I’m losing more money to the invisible gold sink.

This current implementation will show the gold sink, which is an improvement over the invisible fees, but it still keeps all but calculating players in the dark as to what their total proceeds will be. I shouldn’t have to alt-tab out to get a calculator, or keep a 10key on my desk so I can drop linen off at the AH instead of hording it.

I mean, the overall revamp of the AH looks awesome, but this decision just doesn’t make sense to me. It strikes me that there is no ethical or good reason for the proceeds tally to be missing.

Curtis overall I think the new TP UI will be fantastic. (Actually a little too fantastic: I’d be ok if less people understood how the TP works, that’s less competition on the market heh heh).

That said, I have two questions:
1. The blog post says, “The most obvious change to selling on the new Trading Post is that no longer are your items sorted by their name. Items are now shown in the same order they appear in your inventory.”

That kinda worries me because you can also sort your items to sell “by price” at the moment. I find that VERY convenient for grouping all the most valuable items in my inventory right at the beginning of the list. I would be really, really sad if the ability to sort by price has been removed along with “by name”.

2. Second question: any chance we are getting a “BACK BUTTON” in the new ui? That would make things sooooooooooo much easier to navigate…

CuteLilKittenHugz.2064:

…

That kinda worries me because you can also sort your items to sell “by price” at the moment. I find that VERY convenient for grouping all the most valuable items in my inventory right at the beginning of the list. I would be really, really sad if the ability to sort by price has been removed along with “by name”.

…

This has my attention as well, I use that every time I go to a merchant or start salvaging all my inventory just to make sure I don’t waste one of those random items that sell for much more than related items.

Oh, I have a question:
Suppose the current lowest sell price of an item ia 6g 00s 00c.
In that case, can you use the down button on the copper to reduce the price by one copper (making it 5g 99s 99c), or you have to change all 3 fields?

It would be heavenly if we could “steal” lowest price slot with this level of ease. And also, it would improve market efficiency, because the sell price and buy price would equalize faster (I currently use the buy price if it is close enough to the sell price, so I think many people do that too). That way, more deals get done!

I know it’ll be answered when we get it next week but do we still have the same ability as we do now on the sell screen to choose match low sale price rather than high bid price. The “Sell Instantly” button concerns me because I assume this matches the high bid price and the screen shot doesn’t have any items being sold so I don’t see the mechanism for quick switching other than typing it in.

The reason it bothers me because encouraging to sell to highest bidder leaves money on the table that a player could earn. One of the major complaints that players voice is the lack of money in game yet the way the TP defaults, players may unknowingly be throwing money that they could earn away. And if you are making it more difficult to match the low seller price, this gap could widen even further. That’s good news for player merchants (aka flippers) but I don’t like the notion that less savvy players may be stuck with an Idiot Tax or Not Paying Attention Tax.

http://youtu.be/04P2u-QOMHA?t=3m38s

Curtis Johnson.8456:

You can sort the sell list by the column headers so Qty, Name, Price and Level are all possible sorts for selling. Just the default is bag order.

YAY!

Curtis Johnson.8456:

No… but by redesigning how everything connects I believe we’ve removed almost all possible needs for a back button. Sooooo much easier to navigate = yes.

YAY!

Curtis Johnson.8456:

Check out the points of interest broadcast from today for a live demo of the new trading post.
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/c/5069490

Hmmmmm. I watched the video (hint: skip first 12-13minutes) I may have to take my second “yay” off the table and hold it in reserve. Not sure until I use the new TP. Altho I can see beyond a shadow of a doubt that the new UI is soooooo much easier and I am definitely looking forward to using it, I can still see how having a “back” button would make it even better… noticeably better. I mean, imagine if web browsers never had a “back” button and then tomorrow Google came out with a back button for Chrome. Everyone would be like “awwwwwwwwww yeeeeeeeaaaaaah”. Isn’t the TP UI basically a web browser? But I dunno, maybe I’m just a weirdo. I’ll wait until i get to use it and see if my suspicions are justified.

Maxwell.7843:

Gulesave.5073:

Would it be acceptable to just have Net Profit show as a tooltip when we hover over the other numbers?

No offense, but it seems a bit counterintuitive.

I like the tooltip idea, but I would use in a different way, which I’m gonna explain below.

Right now the NTP shows
1- the price at which you sell the item
2- the listing fee (-5%)
3- the sale tax (-10%)
A lot of users would like to also see
4- the final profit (0.85)

It would be really cool if, by hovering with the mouse over each of these value, a tooltip appeared, explaining what that value is.

The tooltips would read as such, respectively:
1- “This is the amount of coin your buyer needs to pay”
2- “This fee will be subtracted from you wallet, in order to list your item”
3- “This tax will be applied once you sell the item”
4- “This is the neat amount of coin you earn after this sale”

This way even the most clueless new player knows exactly what’s going on!

I really like this idea. It provides more information and gives us all we need to make a fully informed choice about our final profit. If ease of use is the goal, why force players to do math?

Edit: This is why add-ons are so popular with World of Warcraft. Little things like this could be easily added to the game by players that want it.

Curtis Johnson.8456:

Behellagh.1468:

I know it’ll be answered when we get it next week but do we still have the same ability as we do now on the sell screen to choose match low sale price rather than high bid price. The “Sell Instantly” button concerns me because I assume this matches the high bid price and the screen shot doesn’t have any items being sold so I don’t see the mechanism for quick switching other than typing it in.

The reason it bothers me because encouraging to sell to highest bidder leaves money on the table that a player could earn. One of the major complaints that players voice is the lack of money in game yet the way the TP defaults, players may unknowingly be throwing money that they could earn away. And if you are making it more difficult to match the low seller price, this gap could widen even further. That’s good news for player merchants (aka flippers) but I don’t like the notion that less savvy players may be stuck with an Idiot Tax or Not Paying Attention Tax.

Sell on new tp defaults to matching lowest seller so we’re actually reducing this risk and encouraging a more true supply competition.

Instant vs Order is entirely price controlled and the warning message / submit button text changes intelligently depending which listing you match or where your proposed price falls inbetween existing listings.

So what you’re saying is that it now takes more effort to sell to the highest Buy Order?

Curtis Johnson.8456:

Sell on new tp defaults to matching lowest seller so we’re actually reducing this risk and encouraging a more true supply competition.

Instant vs Order is entirely price controlled and the warning message / submit button text changes intelligently depending which listing you match or where your proposed price falls inbetween existing listings.

Thank you for the answer.

I’m sorry if this has been requested already in this topic, but may we have an option to enable/disable the “I am Evon Gnashblade” mode in the New Trading Post without having to type in the search box “I am Evon Gnashblade” every time we want the the New Trading Post to appear this way?

Thank you.

Pphhtt, it’s “official” but not 100% “official”. It’s old Google Beta. Yes it’s available and you can use it but if it gets a bit wonky, it would be a very low priority fix. At least that’s what I got out of the video.

shaquinna.2869:

But the moment they start talking about the listing fees and stuff (of wich a lot of people complain about being huge gold sinks) they suddenly change to a fictional character:

Now that you mention it, that is interesting. Especially since it’s the part we are complaining about. Not because we object to the fees, but because we object to the information ANET isn’t showing.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I wonder why the playerbase wasn’t up in arms about the ‘projected profit’ in the current TP? Probably should have asked for this change long ago, maybe it would have been added to the new UI. /shrug

They were. But they got tired of repeating themselves and getting the same arguments from people defending ANET.

With nothing new happening, the argument faded away, only spurting back into action occasionally when someone new noticed the problem and complained. Then we got the same arguments from both sides.

Sweetblue Huntress.9856:

DDCarvalho.2071:

<snip>

Now the next point of improvement in the game: include downvote buttons on the forums so we can sink whiny people who never say anything constructive (and upvotes to give focus to good ideas and constructive criticism).

Yes, please!

That sounds good in theory. In practice, it’s more common to see it used to upvote posts that people agree with and to downvote and hide posts they disagree with. Regardless of the merit of the posts.

Stifling discussion because few people get to see dissenting voices.

Gulesave.5073:

Would it be acceptable to just have Net Profit show as a tooltip when we hover over the other numbers?

It would be better to stick the TP fees in the tooltip. Display the listing price and net profit all the time.

This is better because the net profit and listing price are going to be important to everybody. But the exact value of the fees isn’t going to be important to everyone.

For me I understood what they were going for with projected profit. It was to inform the player that even though they are selling something at 10s, they will only get 9.9s at pick up time. Profit is the wrong word be considering the space available, there aren’t a lot of alternatives.

“Projected” because of how the sales tax is calculated on each sale and not the bulk amount. Depending on the price and the lot sizes of purchaces, you can end up paying a bit more in tax. Let’s say you are selling 120 something at 47c. The tax if the full 120 is bought together is 5.64s. However if they are bought in 24 lots of 5 each, you pay 5.76s in total sales tax while 20 lots of 6 each you only pay 5.6s. Rounding is a … female dog.

Curtis Johnson.8456:

Stormdancer.4972:

Just being able to filter based on items usable by the current character is a huge improvement. Thank you!

I don’t see why removing the ‘under vendor price’ items would cause any risk to the market – simply kick them back to the person who put in the order!

If simply kicking them back was something simply done I’d agree. The sheer quantity of orders to process posses some risk.. and one wrong bit of processing might require a TP roll-back.. which would be … scary.

Why not slowly and continuously let “the government” buy all those under-priced items and pay the sellers (i.e., the game itself quietly buying all that stuff piece by piece over months and destroying the items)?

This would also mean a lower money influx to the economy when compared to returning all items to the suppliers and forcing them to vendor them. And the seller cannot complain, too. After all, she agreed to sell the items to that price, TP tax included.

~MRA

Lishtenbird.2814:

For me, the extra space there looks exactly like something to put “projected profit” into.

Thanks for doing the images. Image #3 of your mock-up is exactly what I came here for to propose. Thumbs up for you.

~MRA

All I want to know is if the “Error attempting to sell.” is gone. I think I might lose my mind if I continue to see this after a patch addressing TP issues is released…

Depends on what they meant by “sell limit” in the PoI video. Someone asked if the sell limit was gone and they said no, because they don’t want bots to take over the game. Some people think that means “Error attempting to sell”, I originally thought it was placing an order larger than 250. A later more specific question confirmed the 250 stack cap on ordering.

We’ll see on Tuesday.

Behellagh.1468:

For me I understood what they were going for with projected profit. It was to inform the player that even though they are selling something at 10s, they will only get 9.9s at pick up time. Profit is the wrong word be considering the space available, there aren’t a lot of alternatives.

If the projected profit value included the listing fee, it would be accurate. But it doesn’t, nor does it make any sense to not include it.

Not that “they don’t have room for that information in the UI” is acceptable. If the UI doesn’t have room for such vital information, it should be redesigned. Especially when Eve Online has managed to include the total value in the window for creating a sell order for years before ANET decided to copy the Eve market.

“Projected” because of how the sales tax is calculated on each sale and not the bulk amount. Depending on the price and the lot sizes of purchaces, you can end up paying a bit more in tax. Let’s say you are selling 120 something at 47c. The tax if the full 120 is bought together is 5.64s. However if they are bought in 24 lots of 5 each, you pay 5.76s in total sales tax while 20 lots of 6 each you only pay 5.6s. Rounding is a … female dog.

Rounding could be a problem. But that is easy enough to solve. Calculate two profit values. One where the items are sold one at a time and the sales tax is rounded up to the nearest copper coin, regardless of how the TP would normally round it (eg, 1.1 gets rounded up to 2, even though it would normally be rounded to 1). The other has the tax rounded down in all cases (1.9 is rounded to 1). Then display both those values as the possible profit range.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Behellagh.1468:

And there isn’t aesthetically room for a third piece of information in that layout.

Here you go.

For me, the extra space there looks exactly like something to put “projected profit” into.

(Also, while making these images, I once again saw that having leading zeros would’ve been really good for improving clarity).

For some reason every time I look at that image I think the button reads “Sell Insanity”, which would be more accurate LoL.

I wish a dev would comment on that because it’s literally made me rage quit the game multiple times. Instead of trying to stop people from bitting limiting everyone else’s game play, how’s about banning those who are caught cheating and maybe getting more involved in game? 20 people report one got at the same time for teleport hacking and it’s ignored, but if I decide to clear my bank out and sell all my stuff once a week, it takes an hour for something that should like 2-3 minutes..

Curtis Johnson.8456:

Yol.1685:

A couple of questions…..

1 – When I search for dyes, can I filter out the ones already unlocked on my account?

No, you’ll still have to mouse-over the list to see each one locked or unlocked.
Same for skins which someone asked about. And minis which is a logical question too.
Locked / Unlocked on my account is not a currently supported filter.

2 – Have you removed all the buy orders below vendor price?

Not at this time. In fact the visibility is actually going to make this worse for a little bit. It’s something we are looking into but it’s easier said than done without risk to the market.

Without want of sounding like a bit of a noob… Could you not simply release a message to all players explaining that any items they currently have on the TP that are BELOW the Vendor price will be removed from the game and unless the players cancel these items they will lose them permanently without any such refunds.

OR perhaps you could arrange for someone from ANet to get a temporary account with a ton of gold to go through the TP and simply purchase all the items that are currently listed outside of the parameters, that way the players get the gold for the sale and the TP is free from the items… Heck i’m almost tempted to just do it myself lol. (Almost being the operative word).

Coopziana.1802:

Curtis Johnson.8456:

Yol.1685:

A couple of questions…..

1 – When I search for dyes, can I filter out the ones already unlocked on my account?

No, you’ll still have to mouse-over the list to see each one locked or unlocked.
Same for skins which someone asked about. And minis which is a logical question too.
Locked / Unlocked on my account is not a currently supported filter.

2 – Have you removed all the buy orders below vendor price?

Not at this time. In fact the visibility is actually going to make this worse for a little bit. It’s something we are looking into but it’s easier said than done without risk to the market.

Without want of sounding like a bit of a noob… Could you not simply release a message to all players explaining that any items they currently have on the TP that are BELOW the Vendor price will be removed from the game and unless the players cancel these items they will lose them permanently without any such refunds.

OR perhaps you could arrange for someone from ANet to get a temporary account with a ton of gold to go through the TP and simply purchase all the items that are currently listed outside of the parameters, that way the players get the gold for the sale and the TP is free from the items… Heck i’m almost tempted to just do it myself lol. (Almost being the operative word).

I do not think there are any items left on the TP that are being sold for under the vendor value. We’ve all bought them up and vendored them for profit. Occasionally there is an item that somehow gets listed for far below its vendor value due to a bug or something, but it is bought up and vendored quickly.

The main issue is of buy orders for under the vendor value. These are mostly a ton of 1c buy orders from before it was made so a buy order could not be placed for less than 1c over vendor value.

I’d like to add that although the new TP is a great update… I was disappointed that a “trade” function was not introduced (either through the TP or the same system as GW1). Rather than dealing with Gold for all transactions, I thought it would be great to offer up items for trade, which would make for great global skin unlocking help.

Just food for thought…

StinVec.3621:

Coopziana.1802:

Curtis Johnson.8456:

Yol.1685:

A couple of questions…..

1 – When I search for dyes, can I filter out the ones already unlocked on my account?

No, you’ll still have to mouse-over the list to see each one locked or unlocked.
Same for skins which someone asked about. And minis which is a logical question too.
Locked / Unlocked on my account is not a currently supported filter.

2 – Have you removed all the buy orders below vendor price?

Not at this time. In fact the visibility is actually going to make this worse for a little bit. It’s something we are looking into but it’s easier said than done without risk to the market.

Without want of sounding like a bit of a noob… Could you not simply release a message to all players explaining that any items they currently have on the TP that are BELOW the Vendor price will be removed from the game and unless the players cancel these items they will lose them permanently without any such refunds.

OR perhaps you could arrange for someone from ANet to get a temporary account with a ton of gold to go through the TP and simply purchase all the items that are currently listed outside of the parameters, that way the players get the gold for the sale and the TP is free from the items… Heck i’m almost tempted to just do it myself lol. (Almost being the operative word).

I do not think there are any items left on the TP that are being sold for under the vendor value. We’ve all bought them up and vendored them for profit. Occasionally there is an item that somehow gets listed for far below its vendor value due to a bug or something, but it is bought up and vendored quickly.

The main issue is of buy orders for under the vendor value. These are mostly a ton of 1c buy orders from before it was made so a buy order could not be placed for less than 1c over vendor value.

Ah, ok. yes I see what you mean, that makes sense.

Still ANet could just threaten to cancel all these orders and take the coins away from the players, it would be the simplest fix. but perhaps i’m not seeing the bigger picture. However it may be that the majority of these players were taking advantage of an exploit that was previously in the game, so therefore ANet have the grounds to cancel them! I’d support it as long as the “offenders” (and i use the terms very lightly) were given plenty of warning that they would lose their money.

Coopziana.1802:

I’d like to add that although the new TP is a great update… I was disappointed that a “trade” function was not introduced (either through the TP or the same system as GW1). Rather than dealing with Gold for all transactions, I thought it would be great to offer up items for trade, which would make for great global skin unlocking help.

Just food for thought…

Just form a trade guild with people you trust and mail with them (take screens before every mail).

So I have one thing that has always driven me nuts on the trading post. It’s not fixed here, even though you have added the ability to fix it.

Lets say I’m cruising through axes. I want to collect all the skins, or maybe just see what’s there.

Here is what I see:

Berserkers’ Axe
Berserkers Iron Axe
Berserkers Sharp Axe
Clerics Axe
Clerics Bribery
Clerics Iron Axe
Clerics Sharp Axe… etc

If your scanning through the entries, and there are hundreds of them, there is a really good chance you missed the Clerics Bribery. It also means your seeing the same axe, repeatedly in each stat classification.

Stats are being added in as filters. The names like Berserker, Clerics, etc are now redundant within the listing of the trading post. Add an additional filter with preset stats (such as Berserker, etc) in the dropdown. Remove the name from the main listing name.

This way you can search general listings, like Iron Axe(General), or Steel Longsword(General). In cases where the person doesn’t care what stats they get, but are more concerned with price or skins, then this compacts the Trading post, and dramatically reduces the superfluous amount of listings and makes other individual listings much more visible (like many of the special weapons and rarer skins).

When they click the listing they are then prompted to buy the cheapest Iron Axe regardless of the stats.

People who are looking for specific stats have filters that enable them to do so. So the general view isn’t necessary for them.

If necessary this could even be added as a poweruser/filter feature. “Non-Stat sorting” which would allow you to see/buy general categories.

I HATE going through 1000’s of entries when 500 or more of them are basically duplicates. At least in skin/material/level.

I tried the new trading post last night I did not get the Unable to Sell Error once. Thank you ArenaNet!

Overall the new TP is different and I’ll need to get used to it, but it does seem quite functional and straightforward. It seems more responsive which is very nice, and the lag I feared with the Search as you type function did not appear to be present.

In particular, I liked being able to filter by bags along with the interface actually showing your bags to do that. I’ll need to do more exploring with it, but so far I have to give the new TP a thumbs up!