Guild Wars 2

With respect, no information was actually shared other than something may in some way change with HoT. Ambiguous information is often more frustrating than none at all.

The first link doesnt support what is claimed and commentary on masteries is off topic for a discussion on traits.

Hmm, perhaps not off topic after all. Gaile may be attempting to clue us in that traits are being removed entirely in order to be replaced with masteries. Why else delete a discussion about traits and suggest masteries as the more appropriate topic for those concerned with the former.

Ashen.2907:

The first link doesnt support what is claimed and commentary on masteries is off topic for a discussion on traits.

Hmm, perhaps not off topic after all. Gaile may be attempting to clue us in that traits are being removed entirely in order to be replaced with masteries. Why else delete a discussion about traits and suggest masteries as the more appropriate topic for those concerned with the former.

Or that current trait unlocks will be account-bound, like masteries, and that future traits will likely be tied to the Mastery system.

Which would actually be pretty nice, especially if, like skill points, there are going to be more Mastery points in the world than needed to unlock all the Mastery tracks. But even if that isn’t the case, it’ll pretty much give you the freedom to choose what content you want to do to unlock new traits (or anything else) in the future.

I had hoped that the new information referred to was not that post. The equivalent of, “we are going to change things, someday, maybe,” doesn’t seem like much of a conversation seed.

Colin spoke extensively about the Mastery system, though having read and re-read the article, I’m failing entirely to see any stated connection between it and Traits.

Where’s the connection? How do the upcoming Mastery system and Traits tie in?

I’m confused.

Looks like it’s time to close this thread and start another since everyone is off topic (talking about closing threads instead of trait systems).

But if they’re going to nix the current trait acquisition system for something else, is it that they’re redoing the whole thing from the ground up or perhaps adding to it? Feels kind of a waste of effort on the dev’s and my part just starting all over. I mean, I had to do a deal of looking up info on the various quests as well as gold and skill points to unlock them. Would suck to cheapen the effort too much.

So .. new system :
- Traits can now be earned starting at level 80
- people wanted more challenges, so traits are now only awarded for beating special
challenges like beeing the best dungeon / fractal speedrunners
- you can also win some traits if you win in an E-Sports tournament

Is that the reason of this new thread to speculate how you can change the traits
to make them even worse than now ?

Gaile Gray.6029:

Here is Colin’s post in its entirety:

Hey folks,
Now that the HOT is out of the bag, we’re able to update this thread with more details. With the introduction of the new account based mastery system for end-game progression and growth in PvE, we’ll also be re-evaluating our other systems of character progression to ensure they match our over-all pillars and goals for Gw2.

In doing so: we’re going to be removing the current trait unlocking system currently on live and replacing it with a more simplified system that supports where skills-traits-specializations are going in the future. We’ll go into more details between now and the release of HOT on how skills, traits, and specializations will work in the new Gw2 world.

Thank you for all your passionate feedback on this topic – it not only helped our dev team lead to this decision, but has played a large role in helping us define how to build our exciting new account based mastery system for end-game progression in PvE as well.

passionate is an understatement… more like close to a world war…but that aside… HELL YEA! Bout time this evil force of darkness gets into the trashbin where it belongs…

Beldin.5498:

So .. new system :
- Traits can now be earned starting at level 80
- people wanted more challenges, so traits are now only awarded for beating special
challenges like beeing the best dungeon / fractal speedrunners
- you can also win some traits if you win in an E-Sports tournament

Is that the reason of this new thread to speculate how you can change the traits
to make them even worse than now ?

I got the impression that traits would be earned like they will for masteries. I did not take that to be that you will be level 80 before you can unlock the traits. Just that they will be earned like masteries.

This gets more ominous all the time, for one who is not pleased with how things have been going. I feel that acquiring traits, unlocking masteries, unlocking specializations, unlocking skills, will be associated with a “to do” list.

It simply feels that most things are going to be very directed , with required content to be played.

When the game launched, I was blown away by the fact I could actually choose to play anything I wanted, and that which I did not care for could be ignored. Only cosmetic items associated with things I did not do, would be out of my reach.

I could do exactly as I pleased, and my character would not be penalized for it. Everything thing I did in GW2 was fun, 100%. Lacking this, my interest is basically gone. This was the central feature and attraction for me. If something is not fun for me, why do it? I am here for fun and enjoyment.

I loved GW2 the way it was, but sadly feel that GW2 is going to loose what I loved about it. I have a love for the trinity system and healing, but the freedom in GW2 was so appealing that I did not care very much about the lack of trinity.

I am sure there are people who would like “to do” lists, having things that must be done. It’s just that for me, I loved having a game with unparalleled freedom.

Basaltface.2786:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Here is Colin’s post in its entirety:

Hey folks,
Now that the HOT is out of the bag, we’re able to update this thread with more details. With the introduction of the new account based mastery system for end-game progression and growth in PvE, we’ll also be re-evaluating our other systems of character progression to ensure they match our over-all pillars and goals for Gw2.

In doing so: we’re going to be removing the current trait unlocking system currently on live and replacing it with a more simplified system that supports where skills-traits-specializations are going in the future. We’ll go into more details between now and the release of HOT on how skills, traits, and specializations will work in the new Gw2 world.

Thank you for all your passionate feedback on this topic – it not only helped our dev team lead to this decision, but has played a large role in helping us define how to build our exciting new account based mastery system for end-game progression in PvE as well.

passionate is an understatement… more like close to a world war…but that aside… HELL YEA! Bout time this evil force of darkness gets into the trashbin where it belongs…

I’m guessing that you are talking about the last trait system change that needs to go in to the trashbin and not the long thread with little response from devs with tons of discussion on the good and bad of the current trait system.

In that case I agree with you. Currently though there is very little information on the next change to the trait system. All we do know is that at level 80 we no longer get skill points and instead get mastery points. Which doesn’t say much at all. The new changes could still end being worse than the current system or they could end up being better than the original system from launch. It would be nice if they would start giving us some details like are traits being removed from the game? Are they still going to cost skill points and gold? Are they still going to be unlockable via tasks like the current system? Are we going to have to earn traits through the new mastery system?

Until they start answering these questions all we can do is speculate based on their past behaviors. Which makes many of us not very hopeful.

So…when are the devs going to give us information to talk about Gaile? They’ve given us an overview on Masteries, but not Traits and definitely not any information on how they relate to each other. They haven’t even come on the forums to discuss masteries and give us details but we’re supposed to talk about the traits?

Can we at least get some actual details to discuss then? You haven’t in the past because you weren’t ready to talk about it; well now Colin says you are…so what are the details?

I imagine there is some connection between the philosophy behind masteries, and it being a wider philosophy for the direction of the game, so traits will have some level of connection.

But I do feel that those links need to be a lot more specific, and some indication made. Are masteries ultimately to replace traits? Are traits perhaps going to be pre-masteries, with a similar mechanic that might ease us into masteries? Is there really going to be any meaningful change to traits at all?

At this juncture, the information is so woefully incomplete that we haven’t much to talk about in terms of feedback, just a lot of wild speculation to sustain us. And that makes this new thread even more illogical based on the stated reasons for it being here.

I’m disappointed at the closure of the previous thread, as it stood as a testament to how much hate the trait system that has been lumped on us for ten months received.

I’m also confused as to the purpose of this thread. We know that some change, which we’re cryptically told is linked to masteries, is coming at some unknown time. What do we do with that?

At the most optimistic, this hint is that the account-binding that could and should have been implemented eight or so months ago may or not be coming at some point… Yay?

My enthusiasm has been brought back massively since the HoT announcement. But traits and the infinite continue coin they took people’s real world money for then wandered off is really working to undo that. What is worse is that even after actual (well, virtual) riots, we’re still not getting communication on the issue beyond “soon”.

So here is my take on it.

The trait system is in it’s core great.. Much much better then all the grind for some currency to unlock or buy stuff like we see in many other places of the game. Finally something that sends you on a quest to work for something directly. Reasons to go into the world and do specific things. Great!

However there are 3 big flaws with it and a 4th you also have to take into consideration.

(I am just talking about unlocking a skill by doing content x, not the locking it behind a high level..)

1. It got added way to late. Of course people don’t want that at this point anymore. They are leveling there 4th, 5th or whatever alt. Thats already not the most fun thing. Now something they never had to worry about suddenly becomes an additional thing they need to do for the alts.
While I do think the trait system is something the game would have needed from the beginning I really don’t want to bother with it on my alts, just want to get them to 80.

2. It should have been account-bound.

3. The content you need to complete should make sense for the trait you unlock. That is kinda hard with traits but the HoT masteries would be a good example of that. Want the mushroom jump ability? Complete some JP related ‘quest’. Likely the person who is really interested in that jump ability will also like JP’s.
Those who simply want to unlock everything should also not complain about to having to play everything.
In fact unlock masteries that way would be way more fun and interesting then the boring WvW points system.. Do whatever, grind away points and buy the ability you what. Can it be any more boring?

So then that 4th thing you have to consider.
It’s not really a bug but GW2 is build in a kinda grindy way where people got used to just unlocking or earning things by grinding away. Not playing directly for anything. People who dislike that have for a huge part left the game. So you are left with a player-base that will be less interested in this. Give them some brainless grind and they will be fine.. well I think at least 50% of those left.

The approach you did go for with the trait system would be great to hold many of the people that already left back when they where still here and many of them will be coming back with HoT so that would be the point to introduce such mechanics to this time also hold those players and not lose them for ever.

What seemed to have happened is that Anet did noticed what the game was missing but introduced it at a very bad time. Better had saved this sort of stuff for HoT masteries and reward systems. (While also allowing for a grind approach of course to not alienate the player-base that like the grind way).

@ gaile: One of the better ideas I’ve seen suggested for improving/unlocking traits and trait points is not waiting till level 30 to start the unlocking. If you gave people their first trait points at level 15 and every 5 levels subsequently (15, 20, 25….etc up till 80) that would go a whole lot farther to freling like progression. IIRC, the old system let you unlock the tomes at 11 and you gained 1 trait point per level after, giving you 70 at 80. Since they simplified it to 14 total, it seems the logical step would have been make it 1 every 5. I don’t think that would be overwhelming for new players to pick up 1 trait every 5 levels.

Another thing would be to give new players at least the first (adept) tier of skill automatically like the lowest manual used to. Have them talk to a skill trainer or have an instanced trainer mission that has them equip a couple of different traits to show how to use them. I.e: a thief trainer would have them go into an instance, equip uncatchable, then dodge roll by a dummy to leave the caltrops. Then it would have them equip mug and steal to a dummy to see the damage. Then new player would make the connection that they can augment their standard abilities and be excited about every 5 levels when they get a new trait point.

This would be less than 1 minute for an experienced player, but really helpful to new players.

Edit: this training would have to be done with 2 trait points, so maybe do it at level 20 and give them 2 then and 1 every five levels after (@20:2, @25:1, @30:1….etc). That would also line up nicely with 20 level experience scrolls.

New, master level traits could be gained, not by doing map completion or something like that, but using certain skills. E.G (thief again): You get bountiful theft by stealing 100 times or something similar, so it really feels like you’re training a certain aspect of these characters. These could then unlock in PvP too (all abilities should be available like they currently are in PvP, still, but they would unlock in PvE/WvW as well).

So for the future, will Anet make huge bad patches like that NPE/Trait change without first going through us to see our opinion first?

I fail to see why people are still trying to give suggestions on fixing the trait system. It’s over people. They’ve made their decisions and do not really want your input whatsoever. If you still think they do, I have a bridge to sell you.

Knighthonor.4061:

So for the future, will Anet make huge bad patches like that NPE/Trait change without first going through us to see our opinion first?

It has worked for them so far. Why break with tradition?

(In most cases all feedback coms after implementation, because either thy don’t announce it til a few days before, and when they do it is more in the hype-making, advertising rather than informative way. This why the exact details of this current trait system came as a shock and caused instant fury – little knowledge of the full system was known – they only highlighted the admittedly good bits of it)

ozmaniandevil.6805:

I fail to see why people are still trying to give suggestions on fixing the trait system. It’s over people. They’ve made their decisions and do not really want your input whatsoever. If you still think they do, I have a bridge to sell you.

A fix is coming apparently, something you know perfectly well. Why keep that old one open? What could it possibly achieve any more? And it was only locked so anyone can still go back and look at it.

honestly, there doesn’t seem to be much to talk about until more info about the new versions of the systems is given by Anet…

I just want to point out that Colin did not share ANY actual information on the NEW trait system, other than that the current system will be replaced with a new system. Wow. Much info. So informative. Very helpful.

I decided to re-roll my thief last night. My hulking, Norn, dude thief was too big. I haven’t created a new character in over a year and a half.

Wowsers is the Trait system bad. I am glad to see they are fixing it from what they say. I’d suggest nothing too adventurous though. That hasn’t really been working as of late. If it isn’t better than the original system, don’t do it. Just leave the rewards system in place from when the NPE was implemented, get rid of the terrible gating and call it a day.

Gating seems to be the new theme at ArenaNet. Since I hadn’t seen the way it worked it didn’t affect me really and I ignored it. I bought all my traits instead of slog through that mess.

A fix-Read: Rollback- should have been implemented prior to the x-pac coming out. In fact, it should have come out about 4 months ago.

I tire of not getting straight talk. I’d appreciate stowing the market speak. Just list the real reasons why things are going in the direction they are going in. If those reasons don’t sound very consumer friendly when you practice saying them out loud before delivering them to the customers, then maybe don’t implement it?

Just a thought.

Brtiva.9721:

This gets more ominous all the time, for one who is not pleased with how things have been going. I feel that acquiring traits, unlocking masteries, unlocking specializations, unlocking skills, will be associated with a “to do” list.

It simply feels that most things are going to be very directed , with required content to be played.

When the game launched, I was blown away by the fact I could actually choose to play anything I wanted, and that which I did not care for could be ignored. Only cosmetic items associated with things I did not do, would be out of my reach.

I could do exactly as I pleased, and my character would not be penalized for it. Everything thing I did in GW2 was fun, 100%. Lacking this, my interest is basically gone. This was the central feature and attraction for me. If something is not fun for me, why do it? I am here for fun and enjoyment.

I loved GW2 the way it was, but sadly feel that GW2 is going to loose what I loved about it. I have a love for the trinity system and healing, but the freedom in GW2 was so appealing that I did not care very much about the lack of trinity.

I am sure there are people who would like “to do” lists, having things that must be done. It’s just that for me, I loved having a game with unparalleled freedom.

Just another perspective:
I won’t say that I “love” the current system but it has its highpoints. Having a game with a lot of things in it to do and giving you something for doing those things isn’t a bad thing. Doing what you want to do isn’t always a good thing either. Getting players to step outside their comfort zones when it comes to content of a game is likely the goals of the various rewards of the game, so exploring a zone you might not have been interested in may “feel” wrong and hey, you might even come out of the experience knowing you absolutely didn’t enjoy it one bit…but you could also come out of the experience with more knowledge, more experience and you might have even enjoyed parts of it.

Same with the real world. I don’t always like the things I end up doing with friends but there have been experiences I would have none the less never been a part of if I chose not to participate just because it was something I felt I didn’t want to do.

Relating back to GW2’s reward systems, I’ve never been a fan of PvP in MMOs but playing some hotjoins in GW2 I’ve found to be somewhat enriching of an experience. And while I thought I was going to have fun in WvW, it turns out I didn’t enjoy the experience BUT I did get some rewards for it in the short-term at least. And I feel that’s sort of where they were going with this system for traits, to make PvE feel worthwhile and rewarding you for exploring places you might otherwise not even know about.

That all said, I still feel there are so many flaws with the system. For one, if an even is already done you’re pretty much forced to wait for it to be restarted to get the credit for the trait and without outside resources, that can be a huge roadblock. For two, SOOOOOO many times have I discovered that an even to unlock a trait I wanted was bugged and would not proceed. Bad. And finally, this is coming from a perspective of a player who’s only done the various trait quests for 1 character (all my others were lvl 80 before the change) and this could feel pretty grindy/repetitive for players who are alt-a-holics.

Anyway, Leo’s perspective complete.

Well to take the statement that this thread is going off-topic with the complaints against Anet (I do think there is a case to make for the existential nature of this thread over the previous one, but will let it slide for the moment, having already argued that case)

In what ways does the new masteries system impact the trait system? What is the nature of the connection between them?
What new details about the new trait system can be released at the moment?

Those two questions are important if the discussion is to be moved to the new system and away from deriding the old and the way Anet has handled it. Ultimately, to give anything like good feedback, we need good information. What we have had is a promise of a change and a statement that there is a relation between it and masteries (otherwise the link and Gaile’s OP is off-topic to the title). Is it just a philosophical similarity or will there be real interaction between the systems?

Until we know these details any real constructive discussion on the NEW system is severely limited, and as such this topic is going to continue the way it has. And that is why i feel this new topic should have been made when there was a lot more detail about the new system than the vagueness of what we have.

Will Last Refuge ever be fixed after reveal mechanics broke it? These traits that cause auto stealth simply don’t work well because they become too unpredictable to the player using them and cause them to get locked into revealed at bad time and die. Unlike intellectual response though, Last Refuge isn’t a choice and when you’re using Shadow Arts and you’re forced into using it.

Then there’s also Hard to Catch which could easily just grant stability for a second with it’s swiftess and leave it at that, but instead it’s unpredictable and disorientating when it sends you off in a random location, ruining finishers or getting you killed. Random auto activating traits like this aren’t very fun in general: If possible I’d rather they be replaced with something more manual so the game isn’t trying to play for me.

Okay, well, until such time as we actually GET any further insight, we could look at what we do have?

We know they said the current system is going away but Traits are likely to remain rather than disappear entirely. We know they want to use Masteries as a means of expanding on what might be possible rather than making it run off the Traits framework . . .

. . . so the Masteries concept is intended to supplement Traits rather than replace it. If I may be so bold as to offer my interpretation of the design choice?

Traits are a more macro-level of what your character learns how to do. They apply more broadly, to more situations. They’re meant to be the sort of enrichment which can work in the whole game rather than narrowly focused. This is why they are meant to be swapped and switched around with, since they might not always apply but have broad situational use.

Masteries are micro-level in comparison. They’re tightly focused on one particular problem. Hang-gliding, navigation of jungle shortcuts, learning to speak the locals’ language, finding weak points in specific types of enemies. They’re meant to always be on, because they have a narrow situational use.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

[snip]

I find his post pretty clear.

Hey folks,
“Now that the HOT is out of the bag, we’re able to update this thread with more details. With the introduction of the new account based mastery system for end-game progression and growth in PvE, we’ll also be re-evaluating our other systems of character progression to ensure they match our over-all pillars and goals for Gw2.
In doing so: we’re going to be removing the current trait unlocking system currently on live and replacing it with a more simplified system that supports where skills-traits-specializations are going in the future. We’ll go into more details between now and the release of HOT on how skills, traits, and specializations will work in the new Gw2 world.
Thank you for all your passionate feedback on this topic – it not only helped our dev team lead to this decision, but has played a large role in helping us define how to build our exciting new account based mastery system for end-game progression in PvE as well.”

It tells us that the new system will be simplified and following the trend of their account wide mastery system.

It tells us that specialisations need a system revamp to work traits and skill, since the new sub-classes will use new traits and skills.

It tells us that details on exactly how it will work are coming later closer to the release.

To me that says more than enough.

My guess is that new trait system = reset (lock) all opened traits on all characters + double unlocking costs on the current system and keep it same otherwise, or reset (lock) all opened traits on all characters + make traits buyable from gemstore only. At the same time, remove option to convert gold to gems.

Latter would be extremely exciting, less confusing, more streamlined, what metrics and new player feedback clearly show and as a bonus, it would encourage people to explore BLTP.

I would really like to be enthused about the Revenant class but until/unless I know whatever the hell will replace the utter car crash the Trait system is in now, the new class can go to hell.

These days I am not even saving any Tomes of Knowledge. I tried to make 2 new characters under the new system, got them to level 50-60 or so, saw how few traits I had and deleted them. Thats how I feel about the current system, I feel that progression is grindy and unnecessarily tedious.

On the topic of Masteries – it had better be a kitten good system and a hell of an improvement over the joke we have now. I will buy HoT on one of my characters, check it out, and it things have not drastically improved I will forego buying it for my second account and walk away for good.

Schneider.8615:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

[snip]

I find his post pretty clear.

Hey folks,
“Now that the HOT is out of the bag, we’re able to update this thread with more details. With the introduction of the new account based mastery system for end-game progression and growth in PvE, we’ll also be re-evaluating our other systems of character progression to ensure they match our over-all pillars and goals for Gw2.
In doing so: we’re going to be removing the current trait unlocking system currently on live and replacing it with a more simplified system that supports where skills-traits-specializations are going in the future. We’ll go into more details between now and the release of HOT on how skills, traits, and specializations will work in the new Gw2 world.
Thank you for all your passionate feedback on this topic – it not only helped our dev team lead to this decision, but has played a large role in helping us define how to build our exciting new account based mastery system for end-game progression in PvE as well.”

It tells us that the new system will be simplified and following the trend of their account wide mastery system.

It tells us that specialisations need a system revamp to work traits and skill, since the new sub-classes will use new traits and skills.

It tells us that details on exactly how it will work are coming later closer to the release.

To me that says more than enough.

Saying its going to be simplified and making it more simplified are 2 different things. I remember they told us that they were changing the old trait system into our current system to “make it easier to experiment with traits”. Which we all know was exactly the opposite since you can’t experiment with what you don’t have. So until they give us actual details its all speculation especially everything they said. Normally I might agree with you but this last year arenanet has said one thing and done another. You might still believe the hype but I will not.

I really want to hear about the new trait system, I hope it’s soon.

But I don’t like where this progression thing is going at all, including masteries. I don’t like quests, unlock quests, or anything that resembles those too much. I enjoyed this game when I didn’t have to deal with stuff I don’t want to do.

Have to say I personally am not happy about a system being changed to accomodate an expansion, even though you may not have access to the expansion but are still bound by its progressions.

In other words, if we dont have HoT we should keep earning skill/trait points as per normal as we will not be earning masteries at all.

Traced.3495:

I really want to hear about the new trait system, I hope it’s soon.

But I don’t like where this progression thing is going at all, including masteries. I don’t like quests, unlock quests, or anything that resembles those too much. I enjoyed this game when I didn’t have to deal with stuff I don’t want to do.

Would you care about them the same if it was not barring Primary Progression through the content, and was only there for extras which may or may not be of interest? Such as:

Needing to have a Lore Mastery level to open up somewhere which would be on average like a Guild Puzzle?

Or needing the hang glider to reach the start of a jumping puzzle along the top of the canopy?

Or being able to kill Husks same as always, only a Combat Mastery now makes it so you can nullify the “Tough Bark” for 20s?

Or language knowledge offering more dialogue to talk with people on branches you couldn’t see before, not unlike having certain branches only available for race/class/order choices?

Dirlettia.5861:

Have to say I personally am not happy about a system being changed to accomodate an expansion, even though you may not have access to the expansion but are still bound by its progressions.

In other words, if we dont have HoT we should keep earning skill/trait points as per normal as we will not be earning masteries at all.

Traits were due to be changed anyway – this was made clear LONG into the original topic. But the developers were looking into what people expected or to keep offering up criticism which had some more to it than “these suck” or “revert plz”. Timing it to go live either before or with the expansion makes sense from a logistical point of view – it gives them a time frame to work on it, it isn’t getting (hopefully) rushed out to be out ASAP (like the last one), and thus it structures who needs to work when and on what.

Seera.5916:

I got the impression that traits would be earned like they will for masteries. I did not take that to be that you will be level 80 before you can unlock the traits. Just that they will be earned like masteries.

That would be a problem, since the whole masteries system will be locked for HoT owners only.

Astralporing.1957:

Seera.5916:

I got the impression that traits would be earned like they will for masteries. I did not take that to be that you will be level 80 before you can unlock the traits. Just that they will be earned like masteries.

That would be a problem, since the whole masteries system will be locked for HoT owners only.

. . . or are certain branches (the Maguuma Jungle bits) locked? That’s a good question to think on, devs, and think about some rework.

I guess the old thread was too much of an embarrassment. Why else would you lock a thread with feedback on a system that’s been in place for ten months, and is still in place, and will continue to be in place for the foreseeable future, that coincidentally happens to be a little bit embarrassing? Or is it that your forum software is not capable of handling threads with over 80 or so pages of feedback? Of course, someone uncharitable might point out that over 80 pages of feedback would seem to indicate the presence of a genuine problem, but lets not get into that at all. Its also remarkably “convenient” that this will ultimately insure that the thread gets buried, and with its burial, the burial of oh so inconvenient previous dev. statements.

Let me perfectly blunt.
What is the purpose of this thread Gaile? why would you lock a thread which was not off-topic, and still discussing an ongoing issue? I could possibly see making a “part 2”, AFTER you’ve say, implemented long awaited changes to the current system.

speaking of the “next” system, does anyone else find that the best way that the PR team (which described our current system as an “improvement” and “Encouraging build diversity!”), can find to describe the next trait system is “simplified” more than a bit discomfiting, or is it just me?
Worth noting, I`m sure by certain legalistic, or subjective interpretations of “better” and “encourage” their spins on the current system are perfectly accurate.

The thread, as has been stated, has little sense to me. The link that is the frame of reference is not about traits, and until the connection is known, this thread has little use to devs wanting feedback.

I truly feel the previous thread had a lot of great posts, as well kitten little input from Anet. Their assertions changes are coming came 10 months too late. I no longer enjoy the game anywhere near as much as I used to. I’m nearly to the point that I honestly couldn’t give a rat’s behind if I stay or go, or have my account terminated. The way things have gone with traits makes me regret every single purchase of gems I ever made.

At this moment, I don’t see the logic behind the new thread. it should have coincided with some news about the new trait system, as a means to discuss the new system. We can’t discuss what we don’t know hardly anything about, and it seems clear Anet didn’t want the discussion of the old/current one to continue.

I hope some news can actually come that has a clear rather than vague reference to traits and soon. Otherwise all we have is complaints of the old system, and complaints at how Anet have handled this and how we feel treated. I would also ask if Anet is truly shocked at how some of us have reacted to this, given how long this system has been around, and how little movement there has been until very recently.

We have been given no information about the New-New Trait system.
What exactly do they want us to discuss?
There is no need to make any further suggestions, as they have already decided what they are going to do. They just haven’t told us anything yet.

Now let’s see if this one gets infracted lol.

I feel there is some information in Colin’s post – just not much to go on:

we’re going to be removing the current trait unlocking system currently on live and replacing it with a more simplified system that supports where skills-traits-specializations are going in the future. We’ll go into more details between now and the release of HOT on how skills, traits, and specializations will work in the new Gw2 world.

This doesn’t tell me a whole lot, but it does seem to imply that the days of “go complete an absurdly specific objective to unlock your trait” will be over. That’s what I get from simplified anyway.

It’s not much and I understand if people are feeling like this is kind of a meaningless spotlight. I got something out of the post, but not enough to really talk about it, other than as a confirmation that something is going to happen finally.

Given the importance of the changes, the lack of information from ANet, and the likelihood that changes are set in stone already, I’m minimizing my play time and spending nothing in the cash store until we get real, concrete, detailed information and collaboration.

That’s not an ultimatum, just a fact. I don’t want to invest in a game without some idea where it is going.

And I really love GW2. I’ve just been burned too many times with grandiose promises with weak implementations. ANet’s version of collaboration is to let people vent without giving any concrete feedback.

The major attractor of Guild Wars 2, for me, is its flexibility, letting me play how I enjoy.

I have high hopes. I expect them to be dashed.

I am a bit confused. Discussig Traits and Masteries in a single thread suggests they are closely related, but from reading Colin’s post and the Masteries post I didn’t get that impression.
Traits are a part of the character’s build.
Masteries from what I understand will be a progressions system exclusive for players who own the expansion.

The only thing in common between Traits and Masteries I can think of is the “account boundedness”.

But I thought that a change to Traits would interest all players, so I assumed that the Trait revamp would come with a feature patch, not the expansion.

I’m… confused.
I know that the standard answer is “you’ll have to wait and see”, it’s just that after reading the Mastery I thought it was quite insightful, but now if I have to take Traits into account too, the same information becomes confusing..

Gaile, are you able at this time to confirm or deny whether Masteries will substitute Traits? Please?
Before this new discussion was born I was pretty sure the answer to the question would have been “no, Traits !=Masteries”, but as I said I’m a bit confused now…

Labjax.2465:

I feel there is some information in Colin’s post – just not much to go on:

we’re going to be removing the current trait unlocking system currently on live and replacing it with a more simplified system that supports where skills-traits-specializations are going in the future. We’ll go into more details between now and the release of HOT on how skills, traits, and specializations will work in the new Gw2 world.

This doesn’t tell me a whole lot, but it does seem to imply that the days of “go complete an absurdly specific objective to unlock your trait” will be over. That’s what I get from simplified anyway.

It’s not much and I understand if people are feeling like this is kind of a meaningless spotlight. I got something out of the post, but not enough to really talk about it, other than as a confirmation that something is going to happen finally.

Given pretty much that and other things heard whispered in the wild? Yeah, there’s a lot being worked on.

I’ll point to my post above which was trying like heck to be on topic – here – and feel out how these systems are related.

“I take on board that many feel the first thread was fine and dandy, even with ridiculous load times, redundant posts, valueless bumps, and the obvious fact that many people were posting without reading input by other forums members or our Game Director. "

Forgive the lack of proper quoting (I’m no good at quoting bits!), but just want to highlight this. They weren’t the reasons given for its closure, and I hope you don’t mind me saying, seems to have a little snark that is unnecessary. May be misreading that though – the one prob with text is its a little inanimate – can’t always see the tone it’s trying to be presented it.

The thing is, character progression and masteries news is fine, and great discussion, but without some specific examples of how this direction will reflect on the new trait system, all we can do is speculate.

Even just a few more concrete details on the traits themselves would be enough to give a baseline in relation to the wider direction of progression, and allow for more meaningful discussion. I don’t feel it is enough for thoughtful commentary. Thoughtful speculation and ideas certainly, if that is what you are after, but commentary to me suggests some level of feedback on the changes to the specific system.

If you want this new thread to be less about looking at the past and more about the future, I think a lot of us would be grateful to have a little glimpse into that future. It is still too hazy at this point. We see some of the fuzzy colours, but until some of the lines and objects take on some clarity, our commentary and feedback will be greatly limited.

There is still a great frustration in me about this. The wait has been too long, and the time it took to say there is a definite change has me wondering what has been played at. I hope the real details, when they eventually come out will be a cause to be optimistic. But this is too early a time to give anything like an informed commentary or opinion on those things. Just see how it goes I suppose.