Guild Wars 2

I wouldn’t say they are using the beta to distract. They’ve had it planned for a bit now. I’d say their silence on this subject with only our voices of dissent have been used to distract in a way. See, they can later claim being too busy with the xpac as the reason for not even putting the most rudimentary fix in place while others whom aren’t affected by this claim we are just complainers in a small 13 page thread since the more sizable one was closed. Out of sight, out of mind.

All the while those of us that have been trying to get info about this since the beginning are more or less at our wits end and not even logging in about to stop logging in, thereby quelling further dissent and allowing Anet more time under this system without addressing it.

They will keep their update in their back pocket with no word on it until HoT drops and that first wave of people complain. Once that happens, they roll out the fix, hoping it will quell most of that noise and have in place a new system that most new players can live with while never hearing from a good portion of us again.

It’ll be like their version of “Classic Coke” after all the people that hated “New Coke” had their say and left to drink other drinks.

But yeah…traits…

PookieDaWombat.6209:

I wouldn’t say they are using the beta to distract. They’ve had it planned for a bit now. I’d say their silence on this subject with only our voices of dissent have been used to distract in a way. See, they can later claim being too busy with the xpac as the reason for not even putting the most rudimentary fix in place while others whom aren’t affected by this claim we are just complainers in a small 13 page thread since the more sizable one was closed. Out of sight, out of mind.

All the while those of us that have been trying to get info about this since the beginning are more or less at our wits end and not even logging in about to stop logging in, thereby quelling further dissent and allowing Anet more time under this system without addressing it.

They will keep their update in their back pocket with no word on it until HoT drops and that first wave of people complain. Once that happens, they roll out the fix, hoping it will quell most of that noise and have in place a new system that most new players can live with while never hearing from a good portion of us again.

It’ll be like their version of “Classic Coke” after all the people that hated “New Coke” had their say and left to drink other drinks.

But yeah…traits…

exactly this… this new Thread is so obviously a distraction/illusion/strategy to make this problem seem much smaller then it really is. And STILL, complete silence from ANET.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

I wouldn’t say they are using the beta to distract. They’ve had it planned for a bit now. I’d say their silence on this subject with only our voices of dissent have been used to distract in a way. See, they can later claim being too busy with the xpac as the reason for not even putting the most rudimentary fix in place while others whom aren’t affected by this claim we are just complainers in a small 13 page thread since the more sizable one was closed. Out of sight, out of mind.

All the while those of us that have been trying to get info about this since the beginning are more or less at our wits end and not even logging in about to stop logging in, thereby quelling further dissent and allowing Anet more time under this system without addressing it.

They will keep their update in their back pocket with no word on it until HoT drops and that first wave of people complain. Once that happens, they roll out the fix, hoping it will quell most of that noise and have in place a new system that most new players can live with while never hearing from a good portion of us again.

It’ll be like their version of “Classic Coke” after all the people that hated “New Coke” had their say and left to drink other drinks.

But yeah…traits…

Great analogy Pookie. I just hope we don’t end up getting a Coke Zero when they do finally “fix” this.

Well, i know this is a little premature for many of you, but on my little corner of the world, the clocks have just struck 12, Tuesday becomes Wednesday, and the date is now the 15th of April. I would like to wish the current traits system a not-very-happy birthday, and worst wishes for the future.

A year. By heck its been a journey. 2 mega-threads, and countless smaller ones. An acknowledgement of the problems and a suggestion as to an interim quick fix. 7 months later nothing on either what the new system will look like, and nothing to lessen the pain of the current system.

We have had many assertions our feedback means something, but absolutely nothing concrete to prove it to us. We have a promise of information to come and a new system that will potentially resolve our issues, but a year on, those words lose their power. Words are a great thing, they can uplift, reassure, get you hyped, but if you go too long without those words being backed up with substance, those words become a mockery of the very thing they are supposed to be the vanguard of.

It never should have gotten this far. A year is a long time in a games life. So many active posters in the collected threads have left the game, or the forum, or both. How many of us just log in for rewards, or don’t even bother with that? Its not the best thing for a game that such a number of posters (the forum goers are usually among the most ardent supporters of the game) express that dissatisfaction so freely.

And in this limbo, between the announcement of a change and the complete lack of any information about it, our feedback has no value whatsoever. The design has already been scored, the feedback (hopefully) taken into consideration. There is nothing at this stage we can say to further the discussion. The only thing we have is the future promise of information which we can then discuss, theorize about and evaluate. Until then, we are sat here twiddling thumbs. And that;s also why we start thinking the negative thoughts. We feel left out in the cold, and in the absence of any direction, our frustration grows, and without something constructive to talk about, we become more and more negative in our opinions and our voice.

I have no faith or trust in Anet the company, to do anything in the interest of the players (happy players mean happy gem buyers and happy recommendations to buy the game, potentially meaning happier sales figures for Anet). I have no belief the new system will be better, or that we will be listened to. Funny that a year of mostly ignorance on Anet’s part will do that.

But hey, with luck, next year will be a better year for the trait system, whatever it turns out to be, and thus a better experience in levelling and for new players and altoholics alike. I honestly can’t see myself playing in a year because of how I feel treated in the previous one, but will see.

Unhappy Birthday, Traits System. I’ll raise a glass for your removal.

Wolfheart.1879:

Unhappy Birthday, Traits System. I’ll raise a glass for your removal.

Yup. I logged in today in order to start selling items and sending my stuff to friends. It’s almost 5pm at ANET headquarters, so I can only assume that we’re not getting anymore information before the anniversary. I’m sure it doesn’t matter to them that I’m leaving, and I’m sure even fewer people in the game care, but it was a hard decision to make.

I didn’t believe it would get to six months, when this whole thing started. This kitten sandwich is indefensible and I hope… I really don’t know what I hope. Media traction? It’s just so sad.

a simple short term trait fix would be make them free at the npc or cost next to nothing.

Trinnitty.8256:

a simple short term trait fix would be make them free at the npc or cost next to nothing.

This has been suggested repeatedly over the last twelve months. (Lowering the cost, not making them free.)

I have become more of a forum reader than an active player. Part of it is from frustration and part from being entirely too busy in RL.
The traits thread that closed was full of a lot of good constructive feedback. It’s a shame that it was closed and replaced with one of disdain, confusion, frustration, etc.
Honestly Anet should expect no less from those that have been following and hoping all this time. The lack of adequate communication leads to these very issues. It has always seemed to me that Anet has not been stellar at communication. Whether it was announcements via Facebook or other venues while completely ignoring the official forums, to the lack of departmental communication showing itself in areas of the game.
I will always love this game and can see the bright future it could have. Yet at some point, like any floundering relationship, I have to accept it for all its faults or move on. I am not quite ready to give up but I too will be cautiously awaiting news of exactly how things will be changed before I invest any more into the game.

Wolfheart.1879:

Unhappy Birthday, Traits System. I’ll raise a glass for your removal.

As will I; may it not see a second birthday!

Literally all Anet has to do to convert me from an ex-player to a returning player is fix this trait system already. I’ve been spending time in Rift, but quickly rediscovered why I left the first time (GW2 is not the only game with just 1-2 issues that completely kill my enjoyment…). Time to see if LOTRO has come up with a reason for me to come back recently, I guess. Or there’s always my library of single-player games from past Steam sales.

So, April 15th. I last logged in a few months back, after a vey long break from the game due to my intense dislike of the traits system, and less to a lesser but significant degree with the NPE.

I just had to see what the 1 year mark would bring. Not surprisingly, nothing. It’s just a visit to a cemetery, and the remains of a game I once really loved.

I do have a sick curiosity concerning how tedious the Specializations will be. Experience tells me it will be on par with what I expect the “new-new” traits system to be; miserable.

Maybe I’m wrong. I would not put money on it though.

A year… I can’t believe they’ve actually left their game broken in a core area for a whole year…

Raises glass

Just want to throw this in here for the special occasion although I have said it before, many times: I really, really valued the openness and freedom the game had to it before the trait system update and the way too limiting NPE.
I still remember the horror I felt when I read that post about traits.

Many other things I dislike in the current game as well, but this is it for today, not the right thread anyway.

Freedom!

… /sob

My guess is that the fleshed out version of the current trait system is what masteries has become or born from at least. Specializations should (hopefully) be no more than an unlock through a single quest, and then obtaining your new class weapon and buying your utilities, etc with skill-points since, you know, they’re skills. Simple, I know, but it makes sense to do it that way and if its done any other way expect some backlash.

Traits however, need some very basic fixes, which is what is so infuriating.

1) Lower costs by half across the board
2) Adept found in 15-30 zones, Master in 50-60, GM in 80
3) Make the events they are tied to ones that are solo-able
4) Give event options or make them more general allowing flexibility
5) Make sure the vents they are tied to are not broken for forever

I can’t imagine implementing that list would have been so hard that NO ONE from Anet could have done that within a whole year even if they were working on the xpac. Its not like there are a shortage of events and its not like chosing new ones wouldn’t have seemed any more arbitrary than the ones that were ultimately chosen in the first place. Traits need to be obtainable (and I mean ALL traits) by level 80. Not “go hunt them once you’ve gotten to level 80”. Especially with the the Specs and Mastery system being introduced.

Seriously Anet, what is the hold up already???

Yeah, I’m thinking I might need to log in and pass of my T6 mats to my wife and sell off other things at this point.

1 year anniversary.

yay

Happy anniversary.

And by happy, I mean . . . not.

Traced.3495:

Just want to throw this in here for the special occasion although I have said it before, many times: I really, really valued the openness and freedom the game had to it before the trait system update and the way too limiting NPE.
I still remember the horror I felt when I read that post about traits.

Many other things I dislike in the current game as well, but this is it for today, not the right thread anyway.

Freedom!

… /sob

Yes, it was the freedom that was so awesome. I had 100% fun. Nothing I did was uninteresting as I chose what appealed to me. I was not obligated to do things I don’t care for. It made for, overall, the most fun game I had found.

Very different since that day. Have hardly played in a year. Now I just come back out of curiosity; I can hardly imagine what the “new new” system will be etc.

Still waiting for the patch notes that say:

In remembrance of this tragic event, all prices at trait trainers have been halved and skill point costs have been removed.

…still waiting.

Rauderi.8706:

Still waiting for the patch notes that say:

In remembrance of this tragic event, all prices at trait trainers have been halved and skill point costs have been removed.

…still waiting.

Even half price is pretty bad. And I’d still consider coming back.

Guhracie.3419:

Rauderi.8706:

Still waiting for the patch notes that say:

In remembrance of this tragic event, all prices at trait trainers have been halved and skill point costs have been removed.

…still waiting.

Even half price is pretty bad. And I’d still consider coming back.

It’d be a compromise of good faith, at least. :\

Gold isn’t hard to get in game, and skill points seem okay, until there’s the uncomfortable realization that one can hit 80 well before enough map exploration happens to find all those skill points.

But, honestly, cutting all the costs in half (or outright removing skill point costs) would be a huge gesture that ANet is listening and actually values our play time.

Happy anniversary new trait system, who would’ve guessed you’d stick around this long.

Jana.6831:

Happy anniversary new trait system, who would’ve guessed you’d stick around this long.

Anet would’ve.

Anet.

sigh

Here’s to the anniversary of one of the worst patches in GW2.

Why is a simple price adjustment too much to ask until the new system can be implemented?

Make each adept trait cost 4c to unlock.

Make each master trait cost 5s to unlock.

Make each gransmaster trait cost 13s to unlock.

That way unlocking all traits would cost about the same as buying one of the manuals from the perfectly fine system that was scrapped in favor of this terrible one we were given one year ago.

How long would that take a programmer to do?

Gibson.4036:

Here’s to the anniversary of one of the worst patches in GW2.

Why is a simple price adjustment too much to ask until the new system can be implemented?

Make each adept trait cost 4c to unlock.

Make each master trait cost 5s to unlock.

Make each gransmaster trait cost 13s to unlock.

That way unlocking all traits would cost about the same as buying one of the manuals from the perfectly fine system that was scrapped in favor of this terrible one we were given one year ago.

How long would that take a programmer to do?

Over a year, apparently? :\

Really, devs, after 80+ pages of justified outrage the first time, and 14+ pages after having us be told to pike off, would a little compromise be such a bad thing?

It’s been a year. A terrible, uninspired year. The experiment has failed. The goodwill has dwindled. Please just adjust the costs until the new system releases.

Rauderi.8706:

Guhracie.3419:

Rauderi.8706:

Still waiting for the patch notes that say:

In remembrance of this tragic event, all prices at trait trainers have been halved and skill point costs have been removed.

…still waiting.

Even half price is pretty bad. And I’d still consider coming back.

It’d be a compromise of good faith, at least. :\

Gold isn’t hard to get in game, and skill points seem okay, until there’s the uncomfortable realization that one can hit 80 well before enough map exploration happens to find all those skill points.

But, honestly, cutting all the costs in half (or outright removing skill point costs) would be a huge gesture that ANet is listening and actually values our play time.

It’d have to be both for me to consider a return. No skill points and at least slash the price by half. But, I have to disagree with your last point. It would be a small gesture of goodwill that would FEEL huge because of the past year of an extremely offensive gesture, and that’s sad. I honestly thought ANET was better than that. At one time, they even were.

This has made me realize that it is important to have a second game that you enjoy. Eso is a good alternative that fits my needs nicely.

You never know what direction companies will turn, good to have alternatives.

petespri.6548:

This has made me realize that it is important to have a second game that you enjoy. Eso is a good alternative that fits my needs nicely.

With all the bugs and changes that I dislike that I’ve been finding (especially when leveling alts), when I get annoyed it’s always back to eso. Gw2 was my absolute favourite mmo, but now it’s dwindling. What with the incessant pms from gold sellers and being restricted with customising my look at lower levels, it’s really starting to wear me thin.

Other games I’m playing don’t feel so restrictive, or nanny-like, in keeping you from playing how you want. I really enjoyed this game during the first 6 months. After that, the leveling systems evolved into a dire state of lock down. I don’t understand how they can cheerfully promote features that take away freedom of choice and enjoyment.

I now only check this thread and a few others hoping for any updates regarding long overdue revamps, reverts and fixes… rather than play.

Wow, a year. Unbelievable.

Miss Lana.5276:

petespri.6548:

This has made me realize that it is important to have a second game that you enjoy. Eso is a good alternative that fits my needs nicely.

With all the bugs and changes that I dislike that I’ve been finding (especially when leveling alts), when I get annoyed it’s always back to eso. Gw2 was my absolute favourite mmo, but now it’s dwindling. What with the incessant pms from gold sellers and being restricted with customising my look at lower levels, it’s really starting to wear me thin.

One thing to remember is that no MMO will ever be perfect(too many people to try to please for that to happen).

My #1 MMO/CoRPG will always be Guild Wars and is why I had so much faith in A-Net and GW2. My faith was proven correct until 4/15/2014 and the “new traits”. This was then followed by the “NPE” and a slow exodus from the game. Now I sit here 1 year later(freshly logged from another BTP (FTP/Sub in this case) MMO) and wonder where GW2 is going in the future. Will they learn from their mistakes like they did with GW or will they continue down this path of the last year and not listen to the community except when it effects their bottom-line.

Hopefully they will look back on their past experiences(GW and GW2) and find a way to fix the game as a whole.(My advise is to tell a certain Korean publisher to F*** OFF).

I do hope that together with the trait changes we will see reversal to the old difficulty level. I really do not want to be able to solo Kholer with such ease…

Asmodeus.5782:

I do hope that together with the trait changes we will see reversal to the old difficulty level. I really do not want to be able to solo Kholer with such ease…

If there is something that definitely won’t change is the difficulty back to what it was. I gave up on that horse a long time ago. :/

But hey, there’s 2 more Tuesdays in this month. I’m Anet will have SOMEthing other than a BLTP/gemstore update soon.

Galphar.3901:

Hopefully they will look back on their past experiences(GW and GW2) and find a way to fix the game as a whole.(My advise is to tell a certain Korean publisher to F*** OFF).

The policy of silence comes from arenanet and not from ncsoft. So even though ncsoft are probably the ones pushing many of the bad ideas, arenanet could still be talking to us.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Galphar.3901:

Hopefully they will look back on their past experiences(GW and GW2) and find a way to fix the game as a whole.(My advise is to tell a certain Korean publisher to F*** OFF).

The policy of silence comes from arenanet and not from ncsoft. So even though ncsoft are probably the ones pushing many of the bad ideas, arenanet could still be talking to us.

Not to mention the fact that the whole silence policy was born from the precursor hunt thing that was (now quite obviously) fleshed out for the xpac instead of it being a QoL update as originally shopped to us.

Really, just an iota of honest, non-PR speak, about the traits and where its update is and why we will or won’t see it soon would be great.

So… about this “fix” to the trait system…

You know, you guys are making me miss Blizzard. I didn’t think that was possible.

I love how in the new thread “Top questionable decision Anet have made” almost everyone has the current Traits system in their Top 2.

Galphar.3901:

I love how in the new thread “Top questionable decision Anet have made” almost everyone has the current Traits system in their Top 2.

I was thinking the same thing, and came here to see why this thread has moved to page 2. It really needs to remain front and center until we get the promised fix.

Though, like most, I’m very wary that the fix will be as bad as what we have now.

Gibson.4036:

Though, like most, I’m very wary that the fix will be as bad as what we have now.

Yeah, currently there are two options:

1) They haven’t started working on the system.

2) They have started working on the new system, but haven’t consulted the players.

I’m not sure which is worse…

So apparently three months isn’t enough time to give us an overview of what the fix is going to look like? This “improved communication” is awesome, guys.

They don’t have any fix yet. That much is obvious.

At best they are planning on making it a bar to grind out like masteries. Pick a trait when bar full. Oh, and you can use gems to fill the bar completely.

Mark my words, this xpac and trait change will see a huge push in monotizing all of these systems.

CrashTestAuto.9108:

Gibson.4036:

Though, like most, I’m very wary that the fix will be as bad as what we have now.

Yeah, currently there are two options:

1) They haven’t started working on the system.

2) They have started working on the new system, but haven’t consulted the players.

I’m not sure which is worse…

its probably number 2, which i find really surprising. because they already did that once, and it was a collosal failure, that has marred the game for one year.

It must have costed money/time in development, and time again to try to fix. and yet i have yet to see a post that really suggests they really understand the flaws of the system. The only thing they seem to have gotten is that the system is so bad, no one would want to do it more than once.
Which means they may very well make a crappy system, that you only have to do once per account.

The company is way too obsessed with secrecy as opposed to good design. Which didnt used to be the case. We heard about and commented on tons of things which didnt make it into the game on release.

Its not important we be surprised by core game mechanics, its important we enjoy core game mechanics.

petespri.6548:

They don’t have any fix yet. That much is obvious.

At best they are planning on making it a bar to grind out like masteries. Pick a trait when bar full. Oh, and you can use gems to fill the bar completely.

Mark my words, this xpac and trait change will see a huge push in monotizing all of these systems.

This is exactly what I’m thinking. The majority of the things they work on have the goal of increased gem sells. The few things that don’t are extremely small QoL things like the trait respec button. Which get added so that white knights can have at least one thing to mention when giving praise to the feature packs and updates. Small trivial stuff to sweeten the taste of all the crap they keep shoveling on to our plates.

So we have this Tuesday and next Tuesday to hopefully see an actual update to the trait system and 2 more weeks to hear…anything really.

Anet? Still playing this one close to your chest?

PookieDaWombat.6209:

So we have this Tuesday and next Tuesday to hopefully see an actual update to the trait system and 2 more weeks to hear…anything really.

Anet? Still playing this one close to your chest?

Is the world ending after next Tuesday? I’m not sure I understand the limiter here. The way I see it, they’ve got an endless number of Tuesdays stretching out before them.

I think at this point A-net just doesn’t give a kitten. It’s been a year and all we’ve gotten is:

1. Let us know what you think/tell us your ideas
2. Closed thread after 80+ pages/ start new one asking for ideas
3. We are working on a fix to Traits more when we know what it is
4. 1 year anniversary and dead air

They know those of us that really cared have moved on to new/old games and those that are still here think content and QoL stuff is more important.

Guhracie.3419:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

So we have this Tuesday and next Tuesday to hopefully see an actual update to the trait system and 2 more weeks to hear…anything really.

Anet? Still playing this one close to your chest?

Is the world ending after next Tuesday? I’m not sure I understand the limiter here. The way I see it, they’ve got an endless number of Tuesdays stretching out before them.

Oh they do.

I was just “giving” them the out of getting us some kind of info in the month of the day that they set all this nonsense off.

As in, they started this last April, the least they could do is fix it in April or if nothing else ACTUALLY give us real detail about what is to come.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Guhracie.3419:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

So we have this Tuesday and next Tuesday to hopefully see an actual update to the trait system and 2 more weeks to hear…anything really.

Anet? Still playing this one close to your chest?

Is the world ending after next Tuesday? I’m not sure I understand the limiter here. The way I see it, they’ve got an endless number of Tuesdays stretching out before them.

Oh they do.

I was just “giving” them the out of getting us some kind of info in the month of the day that they set all this nonsense off.

As in, they started this last April, the least they could do is fix it in April or if nothing else ACTUALLY give us real detail about what is to come.

I think they have told us, looking back.

“It’s going to be like masteries!”
Mastery info… Fill a bar to incrementally progress X.
Ergo,
Traits, fill a bar to pick a trait… Yawn.

petespri.6548:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Guhracie.3419:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

So we have this Tuesday and next Tuesday to hopefully see an actual update to the trait system and 2 more weeks to hear…anything really.

Anet? Still playing this one close to your chest?

Is the world ending after next Tuesday? I’m not sure I understand the limiter here. The way I see it, they’ve got an endless number of Tuesdays stretching out before them.

Oh they do.

I was just “giving” them the out of getting us some kind of info in the month of the day that they set all this nonsense off.

As in, they started this last April, the least they could do is fix it in April or if nothing else ACTUALLY give us real detail about what is to come.

I think they have told us, looking back.

“It’s going to be like masteries!”
Mastery info… Fill a bar to incrementally progress X.
Ergo,
Traits, fill a bar to pick a trait… Yawn.

I’ve been thinking about that myself. Here’s what I expect:

Trait “points” like the Mastery points we’ve seen in the stress beta. Then, you spend them on traits you want to unlock, and then fill an alternate EXP bar 1/2/4/6 times (Adept/Master/Grandmaster/New Grandmaster) to unlock the trait. Perhaps account wide, perhaps not.

I don’t see them implementing a second experience bar for traits. If they were planning on doing that, they wouldn’t need to take skill points away from level 80s. They’d also have to make sure that we would fill the traits experience bar without fail before level 80 as well as moving Grandmaster traits down below level 80 because otherwise when you turn 80 you have a conflict. That bar needs to be used for Masteries at that point rather than traits. Unless they have a system for 3 bars? (which, please god, no)

Unless they’ve figured out an elegant way to do all this, I think it’s too messy. Of course, this is probably exactly what they are looking at right now.

All by 80? Or maybe… post-80 ‘stacked progression’.

Shaaba.5672:

I don’t see them implementing a second experience bar for traits. If they were planning on doing that, they wouldn’t need to take skill points away from level 80s. They’d also have to make sure that we would fill the traits experience bar without fail before level 80 as well as moving Grandmaster traits down below level 80 because otherwise when you turn 80 you have a conflict. That bar needs to be used for Masteries at that point rather than traits. Unless they have a system for 3 bars? (which, please god, no)

Unless they’ve figured out an elegant way to do all this, I think it’s too messy. Of course, this is probably exactly what they are looking at right now.

I think it’ll be open tab, select what trait line to bar-fill your way through
Like pvp tracks.

Bar filling is terrible, there is enough of that in the game already. I would much rather they go for a suggestion or two on the old thread over a “masteries-like” bar to grind out.

Or just revert.