Guild Wars 2

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Manasa Devi.7958:

In the current game, there’s a certain level of inconvenience with the loot system, sure. It never bothered me at all though.

This new system fails because of the following: you can chose to have even more inconvenience (ID it, then go through every step you currently have to go through) or less inconvenience paired with loss of potential income (salvage it). You can’t chose to stay at the current level of inconvenience.

Anyone who doesn’t have an issue with the current system will be worse off with the new one.

The unids are trophy drops that are converted to loot when you pay 1.68s, nothing more. You get TONS more materials by salvaging them directly.

I’d rather have regular, pre-identified pieces of loot instead. Ones that don’t clutter up my inventory because I can salvage, sell, or store them, whichever I chose, wherever I am, without the aid of NPCs.

Really? So you miss out on like 50% more materials and have your inventory cluttered by minor sigils and runes? Because you can just salvage the stacking unid items without seeing an NPC ever. Like, you can have 40,000 of them in your inventory at once and then just salvage the entire lot at once and your inventory will not be full of anything but materials.

Don’t project your own issues on me. My inventory doesn’t clutter because I manage it with all the options already provided by the game.

This abomination adds a new layer of inconvenience. Instead of just processing my loot, I will first have to go somewhere and pay for it, and then I WILL STILL HAVE TO DO THE EXACT SAME THINGS WITH IT THAT I ALREADY HAVE TO DO NOW.

Sure, I could just salvage it, but what I really want is to just go on doing what I do now. I don’t want to have to decide between gambling and salvaging. I want the game to decide what drops for me.

I like how most people in this thread doesn’t even understand or know what the system does just start bash away at Anet. It’s hilarious. And some people even said they refunded their pre-order over this which made me legitment lol.

1.Gears still drop regularly from mobs
2.unid gears are a lot of mats if salvaged
3.the rare and exotic rates are not bad if id
4.You can save up like 20 stacks and id them at once, is doing heart once a week a problem for you? seriously?
5.It helps with inventory clutter a ton

Most complaints from this thread are pure assumption and false information, like stop bashing at Anet before you even know what the system is. Although that is asking too much from forum.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Manasa Devi.7958:

In the current game, there’s a certain level of inconvenience with the loot system, sure. It never bothered me at all though.

This new system fails because of the following: you can chose to have even more inconvenience (ID it, then go through every step you currently have to go through) or less inconvenience paired with loss of potential income (salvage it). You can’t chose to stay at the current level of inconvenience.

Anyone who doesn’t have an issue with the current system will be worse off with the new one.

The unids are trophy drops that are converted to loot when you pay 1.68s, nothing more. You get TONS more materials by salvaging them directly.

I’d rather have regular, pre-identified pieces of loot instead. Ones that don’t clutter up my inventory because I can salvage, sell, or store them, whichever I chose, wherever I am, without the aid of NPCs.

Really? So you miss out on like 50% more materials and have your inventory cluttered by minor sigils and runes? Because you can just salvage the stacking unid items without seeing an NPC ever. Like, you can have 40,000 of them in your inventory at once and then just salvage the entire lot at once and your inventory will not be full of anything but materials.

Don’t project your own issues on me. My inventory doesn’t clutter because I manage it with all the options already provided by the game.

This abomination adds a new layer of inconvenience. Instead of just processing my loot, I will first have to go somewhere and pay for it, and then I WILL STILL HAVE TO DO THE EXACT SAME THINGS WITH IT THAT I ALREADY HAVE TO DO NOW.

Sure, I could just salvage it, but what I really want is to just go on doing what I do now. I don’t want to have to decide between gambling and salvaging. I want the game to decide what drops for me.

If your inventory doesn’t clutter, then you don’t play GW2 enough.

What you mean inconvenience? With this system you can go to merchant less often, its added convenience.

Gamble? Really? That doesn’t even make any sense, “I want the game to decide what drops for me”, id is the game deciding the drops for you, what is the difference between regular gear drops.

warbignime.4610:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Manasa Devi.7958:

In the current game, there’s a certain level of inconvenience with the loot system, sure. It never bothered me at all though.

This new system fails because of the following: you can chose to have even more inconvenience (ID it, then go through every step you currently have to go through) or less inconvenience paired with loss of potential income (salvage it). You can’t chose to stay at the current level of inconvenience.

Anyone who doesn’t have an issue with the current system will be worse off with the new one.

The unids are trophy drops that are converted to loot when you pay 1.68s, nothing more. You get TONS more materials by salvaging them directly.

I’d rather have regular, pre-identified pieces of loot instead. Ones that don’t clutter up my inventory because I can salvage, sell, or store them, whichever I chose, wherever I am, without the aid of NPCs.

Really? So you miss out on like 50% more materials and have your inventory cluttered by minor sigils and runes? Because you can just salvage the stacking unid items without seeing an NPC ever. Like, you can have 40,000 of them in your inventory at once and then just salvage the entire lot at once and your inventory will not be full of anything but materials.

Don’t project your own issues on me. My inventory doesn’t clutter because I manage it with all the options already provided by the game.

This abomination adds a new layer of inconvenience. Instead of just processing my loot, I will first have to go somewhere and pay for it, and then I WILL STILL HAVE TO DO THE EXACT SAME THINGS WITH IT THAT I ALREADY HAVE TO DO NOW.

Sure, I could just salvage it, but what I really want is to just go on doing what I do now. I don’t want to have to decide between gambling and salvaging. I want the game to decide what drops for me.

If your inventory doesn’t clutter, then you don’t play GW2 enough.

What you mean inconvenience? With this system you can go to merchant less often, its added convenience.

I never go to merchants, I eliminated that inconvenience ages ago. I process my loot wherever I find myself and whenever I feel like it. Sometimes while walking or rezzing someone.

warbignime.4610:

Gamble? Really? That doesn’t even make any sense, “I want the game to decide what drops for me”, id is the game deciding the drops for you, what is the difference between regular gear drops.

That doesn’t even make any sense. No, really, it resembles written english, but it’s completely incomprehensible. So sorry, I can’t respond to that.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Sure, I could just salvage it, but what I really want is to just go on doing what I do now. I don’t want to have to decide between gambling and salvaging. I want the game to decide what drops for me.

The game already decides what drops for you. Only it’s a decision that is delayed to the moment you chose to identify an item. There’s no real difference between the identification system and the current loot one but the additional price, and the moment you gamble on the loot table. Moreover, you can also decide not to care about that part of the loot and just salvage everything.

So it just comes down to you not wanting to change your habits. I have issues about the ID system, but not that one, and I don’t feel like this will help improve the system in any way.

So I don’t have the choice to gamble by “ID-ing” or just salvaging? How exactly does it work then?

Manasa Devi.7958:

So I don’t have the choice to gamble by “ID-ing” or just salvaging? How exactly does it work then?

You have that choice : either you salvage, and you get mats, and that’s all, or you ID, and you turn that currency they awkwardly called an “unidentified item” into regular loot, with a loot table that may or may not be close to the current one, and then proceed with your usual routine to deal with your inventory.

So I do decide the type of loot I get?

Manasa Devi.7958:

So I do decide the type of loot I get despite you claiming I don’t?

Considering you can’t control what the outcome of the identification process will be, nor what the salvage will provide you, I’m rightfully telling you can’t decide the type of loot you’re getting. With that focus, you can’t chose what you get ; only what you do.

Now, if you’re considering that the choice between going straight for mats (without any control on the outcome) or for identification (with no more control on the outcome) is a sufficient focus to qualify for “your personal decision of what you get”, then it’s up to you.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

DeShadowWolf.6854:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I’m wondering if we’re really losing anything. If unidentified gear stacks, then how can the game identify which one is an exotic and which isn’t? Is there a secret, unseen list that keeps track of the identity of the items that have yet to be claimed?

From the sound of things, unidentified gear is just another die roll that drops on top of the kinds of drops you would normally get. Is there any proof that we’re missing out on rare and exotic drops that we otherwise would’ve gotten?

There is no list, it’s more RNG. The phrase “missing out on rares/exotics” is to indicate that if we salvage unids, those might have ID’d into rares or exotic.

In that case, I do not see the problem. If something we previously earned is being taken away due to unids, then there would be a problem. But if it is an additional system added on to loot that people are complaining about gambling on, then that is strictly an opt-in system. I’m going to salvage all my unids and never look back.

I’ve yet to see a definitive statement from anyone which suggests that we will still get the normal chance at rares and exotics as we get elsewhere. All I got was blue and green normal drops, but that might be due to a relatively small sample size.

It’s the other way around. You’ll have to prove that we’re losing out on drops elsewhere with the unids. It is a bit defeatists to assume a new system is inherently ripping you off via hidden changes to loot ratios mentioned nowhere.

This is ANet we’re talking about, remember. NPE? Adept traits available at L36 that unlocked in L60 areas? “Every player by level 80 should have max stat gear?” Not enough MP’s to be able to fully progress and avoid niche content on HoT launch.

I always, always, always assume the worst. That way I won’t be disappointed.

For me, the system kittens kitten. If I got an Unid’d drop I did not get a regular one at the same time. Paying to ID plus do heart plus go to vendor makes it more clicking and more tedious. If PoF needs to resort to this lame gimmick to keep people playing, ANet has sunk to a new low.

NPE has no bearing on unids. That aside, it is obvious that unids would be dropped into the loot table, and as gear it would be exclusive with other forms of gear when they are dropped. I’m wondering about the dubious claim that we’re missing out on rares and exotics because of unids. If unids just occupy the loot space that fine and masterwork used to, or if unids occupy some other space like junk drops and bags, then the loot chance for rares and exotics will be untouched.

If anything, it means the chance to get rares and exotics will increase, since we’re getting both the loot roll and the unid roll to loot one.

ThomasC.1056:

Manasa Devi.7958:

So I do decide the type of loot I get despite you claiming I don’t?

Considering you can’t control what the outcome of the identification process will be, nor what the salvage will provide you, I’m rightfully telling you can’t decide the type of loot you’re getting. With that focus, you can’t chose what you get ; only what you do.

Now, if you’re considering that the choice between going straight for mats (without any control on the outcome) or for identification (with no more control on the outcome) is a sufficient focus to qualify for “your personal decision of what you get”, then it’s up to you.

There are some items that can only result from one of the choices, so I posit that I am deciding to maybe get those or not get those at all. I don’t want that. I don’t want to have to decide to give up a decent deal for a small chance at a better deal but more likely just a loss. That’s gambling.

Basic loot stuffs shouldn’t work like that. I want the game to make all the decisions for that. I don’t mind randomness in drops, but I do mind putting up stakes to stir up extra randomness. I find it objectionable. Also, I wonder why my character suddenly can’t tell a dagger from a pair of leather breeches anymore. Is it the desert heat?

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

DeShadowWolf.6854:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I’m wondering if we’re really losing anything. If unidentified gear stacks, then how can the game identify which one is an exotic and which isn’t? Is there a secret, unseen list that keeps track of the identity of the items that have yet to be claimed?

From the sound of things, unidentified gear is just another die roll that drops on top of the kinds of drops you would normally get. Is there any proof that we’re missing out on rare and exotic drops that we otherwise would’ve gotten?

There is no list, it’s more RNG. The phrase “missing out on rares/exotics” is to indicate that if we salvage unids, those might have ID’d into rares or exotic.

In that case, I do not see the problem. If something we previously earned is being taken away due to unids, then there would be a problem. But if it is an additional system added on to loot that people are complaining about gambling on, then that is strictly an opt-in system. I’m going to salvage all my unids and never look back.

I’ve yet to see a definitive statement from anyone which suggests that we will still get the normal chance at rares and exotics as we get elsewhere. All I got was blue and green normal drops, but that might be due to a relatively small sample size.

It’s the other way around. You’ll have to prove that we’re losing out on drops elsewhere with the unids. It is a bit defeatists to assume a new system is inherently ripping you off via hidden changes to loot ratios mentioned nowhere.

This is ANet we’re talking about, remember. NPE? Adept traits available at L36 that unlocked in L60 areas? “Every player by level 80 should have max stat gear?” Not enough MP’s to be able to fully progress and avoid niche content on HoT launch.

I always, always, always assume the worst. That way I won’t be disappointed.

For me, the system kittens kitten. If I got an Unid’d drop I did not get a regular one at the same time. Paying to ID plus do heart plus go to vendor makes it more clicking and more tedious. If PoF needs to resort to this lame gimmick to keep people playing, ANet has sunk to a new low.

NPE has no bearing on unids.

Sure it does. UnID gear is the worst solution to gear. I don’t get to see what my reward is unless I take the time to complete a heart and then pay an exorbitant ransom. Or I can take my UnID gear and simply salvage or sell it all without ever knowing what it could have been. Sounds terrible.

Hiding potential precursors or even Ascended gear in stacks of mostly unidentified blues and greens is just WRONG! That will force most players to identify everything or worry that they might have salvaged a precursor. Ascended gear is not even supposed to be salvageable without a special tool, and precursors should not be either.

PLEASE Anet at least have two types of UnID gear that filters out the useless stuff from the potentially valuable stuff. Both types should have different ID costs as well. That way you are truly gambling on the type of exotic you might get.

Elric Of Melnibone.4781:

Hiding potential precursors or even Ascended gear in stacks of mostly unidentified blues and greens is just WRONG! That will force most players to identify everything or worry that they might have salvaged a precursor. Ascended gear is not even supposed to be salvageable without a special tool, and precursors should not be either.

PLEASE Anet at least have two types of UnID gear that filters out the useless stuff from the potentially valuable stuff. Both types should have different ID costs as well. That way you are truly gambling on the type of exotic you might get.

Why not just id them then, it’s not even that expensive, you would almost always net gain with the drop rate.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

DeShadowWolf.6854:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I’m wondering if we’re really losing anything. If unidentified gear stacks, then how can the game identify which one is an exotic and which isn’t? Is there a secret, unseen list that keeps track of the identity of the items that have yet to be claimed?

From the sound of things, unidentified gear is just another die roll that drops on top of the kinds of drops you would normally get. Is there any proof that we’re missing out on rare and exotic drops that we otherwise would’ve gotten?

There is no list, it’s more RNG. The phrase “missing out on rares/exotics” is to indicate that if we salvage unids, those might have ID’d into rares or exotic.

In that case, I do not see the problem. If something we previously earned is being taken away due to unids, then there would be a problem. But if it is an additional system added on to loot that people are complaining about gambling on, then that is strictly an opt-in system. I’m going to salvage all my unids and never look back.

I’ve yet to see a definitive statement from anyone which suggests that we will still get the normal chance at rares and exotics as we get elsewhere. All I got was blue and green normal drops, but that might be due to a relatively small sample size.

It’s the other way around. You’ll have to prove that we’re losing out on drops elsewhere with the unids. It is a bit defeatists to assume a new system is inherently ripping you off via hidden changes to loot ratios mentioned nowhere.

This is ANet we’re talking about, remember. NPE? Adept traits available at L36 that unlocked in L60 areas? “Every player by level 80 should have max stat gear?” Not enough MP’s to be able to fully progress and avoid niche content on HoT launch.

I always, always, always assume the worst. That way I won’t be disappointed.

For me, the system kittens kitten. If I got an Unid’d drop I did not get a regular one at the same time. Paying to ID plus do heart plus go to vendor makes it more clicking and more tedious. If PoF needs to resort to this lame gimmick to keep people playing, ANet has sunk to a new low.

NPE has no bearing on unids. That aside, it is obvious that unids would be dropped into the loot table, and as gear it would be exclusive with other forms of gear when they are dropped. I’m wondering about the dubious claim that we’re missing out on rares and exotics because of unids. If unids just occupy the loot space that fine and masterwork used to, or if unids occupy some other space like junk drops and bags, then the loot chance for rares and exotics will be untouched.

If anything, it means the chance to get rares and exotics will increase, since we’re getting both the loot roll and the unid roll to loot one.

Why you commented on NPE being included as an example of an ANet decision but not the other examples I gave escapes me.

I agree that UnID’d will have to occupy space on the loot table. Any speculation about impact on other options on the table is just speculation, except that there will have to be some impact. If nothing else is dropped to make space, then some small percentage changes in the tables will take place. If something is dropped, what that is will determine the effect. It might be nothing, it might not.

While it is certainly possible that the change for better drops will improve, it seems equally likely, lacking a larger picture, they will not. Since we cannot know at this point, the real discussion points ought to be convenience vs inconvenience, expense to get loot vs. no expense and speculation about what this is in aid of.

It ought to be clear to everyone that the new system looks to be more convenient for those who choose to salvage while it is a lot more inconvenient for anyone who actually wants to see what their loot is. Since I like to see my loot before deciding what to do with it, I object to the added inconvenience, and to the added expense. For me, the loot systems in HoT and LS3 maps were far superior and would be even more superior with a feature to vendor all runes/sigils at a merchant or even on the inventory UI.

Finally, ANet has not discussed the purpose behind this feature. Since we don’t know, I can only speculate as to what this is intended to accomplish. Since I can see ANet’s track record, which includes many failures to achieve the goal they set out to, I am dubious this feature is going to do more than anger a bunch of players to little purpose.

It may just be a demo thing? I remember there was something in heart of thorns that, during the pre weekends, that a lot of stuff was unidentified.

Its a solid way to make loot more valuable /shrug fewer people identifying means rares and exotics are more valuable as well as the ectos,runes, sigils they generate. Making them worth more over time so the people that DO find them get more of a reward.

So at first sure it may not be worth it too much. But as time passes I wouldnt be surprised if just salvaging is the “safe way” and identifying is what you do for larger long term profit.

Edit: that would involve them spreading the system across ALL maps however. Or making it so that you can only get those newer runes and sigils FROM unidentified gear or crafting.

DeShadowWolf.6854:

Still irrelevant. I would be perfectly fine with it, So long as I can discriminate what rarities I ID and which ones I salvage.

That sounds like the GW1 system rather than the GW2 system. The former requires more stacking, more evaluation, more time investment. The latter is simpler.

All things otherwise equal, I prefer the simpler system.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

DeShadowWolf.6854:

Still irrelevant. I would be perfectly fine with it, So long as I can discriminate what rarities I ID and which ones I salvage.

That sounds like the GW1 system rather than the GW2 system. The former requires more stacking, more evaluation, more time investment. The latter is simpler.

All things otherwise equal, I prefer the simpler system.

I don’t know the GW1 system well enough to comment on it, but here’s what it boils down to for me: I don’t want to ID things only to find that they’re worthless blues and greens. But I also don’t want to salvage what otherwise might have been a rare (and thus, ecto). With the system as it stands, it’s a lose-lose for me. If anything knowing that this stack of unids will be blues n greens, and that other stack will be rares is in fact simpler than 100% gamble, at least from the perspective of loot management.

warbignime.4610:

Why not just id them then, it’s not even that expensive, you would almost always net gain with the drop rate.

Please link the stats that you draw this conclusion from. I haven’t seen any conclusive evidence for “you would almost always net gain”.

Djinn.9245:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

NPE has no bearing on unids.

Sure it does. UnID gear is the worst solution to gear. I don’t get to see what my reward is unless I take the time to complete a heart and then pay an exorbitant ransom. Or I can take my UnID gear and simply salvage or sell it all without ever knowing what it could have been. Sounds terrible.

There is no phantom award being withheld from you. Your reward is the unid, which you have the option to gamble on or sell/salvage. You are not indebted to gamble.

Djinn.9245:

warbignime.4610:

Why not just id them then, it’s not even that expensive, you would almost always net gain with the drop rate.

Please link the stats that you draw this conclusion from. I haven’t seen any conclusive evidence for “you would almost always net gain”.

If you get green or blue it about evens out and rare dropped 2/10 for me, even it’s 1/30, you would still gain plenty profit.

warbignime.4610:

Elric Of Melnibone.4781:

Hiding potential precursors or even Ascended gear in stacks of mostly unidentified blues and greens is just WRONG! That will force most players to identify everything or worry that they might have salvaged a precursor. Ascended gear is not even supposed to be salvageable without a special tool, and precursors should not be either.

PLEASE Anet at least have two types of UnID gear that filters out the useless stuff from the potentially valuable stuff. Both types should have different ID costs as well. That way you are truly gambling on the type of exotic you might get.

Why not just id them then, it’s not even that expensive, you would almost always net gain with the drop rate.

I was hoping the point of this new feature was to make our lives better, not worse. Adding a step (really more than one step) to processing loot is really bad as that is most of the tedium of this game. I DO NOT WANT to identify blues and greens. I want them out of my life. Letting them stack to be converted to raw materials at my convenience is a wonderful upgrade to the game (assuming all the other sources of blues and greens can be converted to this as well).

Having to give up getting exotics and a chance at precursors is not an acceptable sacrifice to rid myself of the tedium of blues and greens.

Well I heard that we’ll be identify’n (fy’n)
Gonna have to go do the heart (do the heart)
‘Cause ANet found a a brand new annoyance
And decided that fun ain’t in the cards (aahh..).

So I’ll pull (I’ll pull) the game off of my hard drive (ooh)
And I’ll surrender my fan club card
And I’ll burn down the forum where we come to talk
Because this new feature fails hard.

You ain’t gonna see me identifyin’
I wish that they’d find something new
‘Cause I’d rather spend eternity eating Eggs Beetletun
Than give up knowing what’s in my loot

I guess I might seem sort of angry
ANet’s got me feeling like I’m not a fan
‘Cause I’m looking at something the opposite of fun
And there ain’t no way I’m gonna stand (fo-o-o-orr itt)

OK, so ANet, give me back my wallet
I’m not inclined to pay for this now
‘Cause I’d rather have a hundred thousand Charr sit on my face
Than ID any loot, and how.

I’d rather rip out my SSD
Than watch loot I could of had be salvaged
I’d rather slam my mace down on my face (yah)
Over and over and over and over again

Oh, can’t you see what I’m tryin’ to say, ANet…

I’d rather have my blood sucked out by Blizzard (Blizzard)
I’d rather play a Facebook game or two
I’d rather clean all the floors in the Black Citadel with my tongue
Than change the way we get loot.

Yes, I’d rather jump naked into Arah,
Or post comments on a fan site, so cold (co-o-o-o-old)
I’d rather dive into the piranha-filled hole in Tangled Depths
Than ID my loot drops for gold.

I’d rather Jenna ripped Logan’s heart out of his ribcage with her hands
and then threw it on the floor and stomped on it ’till he died
Than spend one minute IDin.

Disclaimer One: sincere apologies to Weird Al.
Disclaimer Two: This is a satirical attempt to let my feelings be known, the threats are not real.
Disclaimer Three: While I may or may not quit the game or purchase POF, this feature has managed to rile me as nothing else ANet has done in five years has.
Disclaimer Four: I know, don’t quit my day job.

Jenstone.6891:

It may just be a demo thing? I remember there was something in heart of thorns that, during the pre weekends, that a lot of stuff was unidentified.

The difference is that in HoT, we had items marked “???” and they were probably not named in order to avoid spoilers about new rewards. With PoF, we have an actual item called “unidentified gear” and more importantly, a mechanic in place to identify bundles.

warbignime.4610:

Djinn.9245:

warbignime.4610:

Why not just id them then, it’s not even that expensive, you would almost always net gain with the drop rate.

Please link the stats that you draw this conclusion from. I haven’t seen any conclusive evidence for “you would almost always net gain”.

If you get green or blue it about evens out and rare dropped 2/10 for me, even it’s 1/30, you would still gain plenty profit.

No matter what you’re going to be spending 1s 68c per item you identify. That’s a cost of just over 50s to identify 30 items.
For that you probably get a blue, green or crafting materials but may get a Rare or better. We don’t really know what the drop rate will be like. From what I’ve seen on these forums some of us were lucky and got quite a few Rares but others identified a lot and didn’t get a single one.
All blues (and most greens) are worth less than the cost of identifying the gear.
The crafting materials you get out of salvaging a blue or green will typically be worth less than the cost of identifying the gear.
Unless you get a rare or exotic then you’re looking at losing money or – at best -
breaking even on every item.
Either way you’re losing 1s 68c of your potential profit per item so the money made from a rare or exotic will have to cover your losses when identifying everything else.

Now you might think that it’s only 1s 68c and that’s not much. Yeah, identifying a single item doesn’t cost that much. Identifying thousands over the course of the expansion? Well, that adds up quickly doesn’t it.

You might also think that the cost of materials is going to rise to cover this outlay. I’d say that’s not really likely as there are enough sources for these same materials both within PoF and in the rest of the game (including the materials that will be released onto the market by those who don’t identify their loot and just salvage it). The exception may be the Eyes of Kormir but we don’t know enough about the other sources for those or the recipes that use them to really know that.

I do think this system could work if they drop the cost significantly. Taking this option should not be such a huge gamble. The cost of blue level 80 gear starts at 60c. That is the most that should be charged to id the loot.

Pifil.5193:

No matter what you’re going to be spending 1s 68c per item you identify. That’s a cost of just over 50s to identify 30 items.
For that you probably get a blue, green or crafting materials but may get a Rare or better. We don’t really know what the drop rate will be like. From what I’ve seen on these forums some of us were lucky and got quite a few Rares but others identified a lot and didn’t get a single one.
All blues (and most greens) are worth less than the cost of identifying the gear.
The crafting materials you get out of salvaging a blue or green will typically be worth less than the cost of identifying the gear.
Unless you get a rare or exotic then you’re looking at losing money or – at best -
breaking even on every item.
Either way you’re losing 1s 68c of your potential profit per item so the money made from a rare or exotic will have to cover your losses when identifying everything else.

The point being then, that yes, you can just salvage the unID’d gear directly!

Carighan.6758:

Pifil.5193:

No matter what you’re going to be spending 1s 68c per item you identify. That’s a cost of just over 50s to identify 30 items.
For that you probably get a blue, green or crafting materials but may get a Rare or better. We don’t really know what the drop rate will be like. From what I’ve seen on these forums some of us were lucky and got quite a few Rares but others identified a lot and didn’t get a single one.
All blues (and most greens) are worth less than the cost of identifying the gear.
The crafting materials you get out of salvaging a blue or green will typically be worth less than the cost of identifying the gear.
Unless you get a rare or exotic then you’re looking at losing money or – at best -
breaking even on every item.
Either way you’re losing 1s 68c of your potential profit per item so the money made from a rare or exotic will have to cover your losses when identifying everything else.

The point being then, that yes, you can just salvage the unID’d gear directly!

Well, that’s A point yes. You can definitely do that.

It’s not THE point however. The point of my post was to address the claim that:

warbignime.4610:

If you get green or blue it about evens out and rare dropped 2/10 for me, even it’s 1/30, you would still gain plenty profit.

I do not believe this claim is true.

I feel like there there is a major misunderstanding as to what unidentified gear is.
There is no exotic or precursor “hiding” under there, it is simply a generic salvage item called “unidentified gear”. It doesn’t preroll anything.
You can either salvage it right there for profit or use it as a currency to gamble for good gear with heart vendors, which will on average always net you a loss. That’s how gambling works.

Identifying it on heart vendors is essentially the same thing as flushing your gear down the Mystic Forge, which gives you a chance of the next tier.
You’re not losing anything.

Galactic.6453:

I feel like there there is a major misunderstanding as to what unidentified gear is.
There is no exotic or precursor “hiding” under there, it is simply a generic salvage item called “unidentified gear”. It doesn’t preroll anything.
You can either salvage it right there for profit or use it as a currency to gamble for good gear with heart vendors, which will on average always net you a loss. That’s how gambling works.

Identifying it on heart vendors is essentially the same thing as flushing your gear down the Mystic Forge, which gives you a chance of the next tier.
You’re not losing anything.

You are losing something though. There’s an opportunity cost here that not everyone seems to understand. That is (lemme get a definition from wikipedia):

“the opportunity cost, also known as alternative cost, is the value (not a benefit) of the choice of a best alternative cost while making a decision. A choice needs to be made between several mutually exclusive alternatives; assuming the best choice is made, it is the “cost” incurred by not enjoying the benefit that would have been had by taking the second best available choice."

So there is an opportunity cost associated with choosing to salvage and also an opportunity cost associated with choosing to ID it (and probably then salvage the results). To say you’re not losing out on anything by choosing one of these mutually exclusive paths is just not true. It’s more accurate to say that you don’t care about the opportunity costs but not everyone feels the same way.

As it stands “just salvage the stuff” seems to be the best route. The alternative “id the stuff” path seems pretty poor at present given the costs associated with it. So the obvious, default answer becomes “just salvage the stuff” but it should be a more balanced choice, IMO.

The answer is simple, either determine the rarity when the Unidentified Equipment drops so you get green or yellow or orange Unidentified Equipment (which removes all doubt as to what the best path with the loot is) or reduce the cost of identifying loot (which leaves the flexibility choice but feels like you’re making less of a dumb move when you ID a bunch of stuff and blues and greens).

(I increasingly prefer the second route, I like the choice the cost for the service is just too high.)

Despite the mental gymnastics by some people trying to justify this system, having to pay to get loot you have earned is a terrible idea.

Pifil.5193:

You are losing something though. There’s an opportunity cost here that not everyone seems to understand. That is (lemme get a definition from wikipedia):

“the opportunity cost, also known as alternative cost, is the value (not a benefit) of the choice of a best alternative cost while making a decision. A choice needs to be made between several mutually exclusive alternatives; assuming the best choice is made, it is the “cost” incurred by not enjoying the benefit that would have been had by taking the second best available choice."

So there is an opportunity cost associated with choosing to salvage and also an opportunity cost associated with choosing to ID it (and probably then salvage the results). To say you’re not losing out on anything by choosing one of these mutually exclusive paths is just not true. It’s more accurate to say that you don’t care about the opportunity costs but not everyone feels the same way.

But it’s the same thing when you dump them in the mystic forge.
You lose out on the salvage mats and might get one useless green instead of 4. And if you salvage them you lose out on the chance of getting a rare. There is never such a thing as best of both worlds.
The real question that makes the difference is whether or not we get rare and exotic drops regardless of the unidentified gear drops.

Edit:

Despite the mental gymnastics by some people trying to justify this system, having to pay to get loot you have earned is a terrible idea.

The loot is the salvage material. No one treats blues and greens as anything but salvage trash in this game. And it’s the same as before, you can gamble those blues and greens away for a chance at a higher tier with an average net loss, except without runes and with less inventory slots.

Galactic.6453:

I feel like there there is a major misunderstanding as to what unidentified gear is.
There is no exotic or precursor “hiding” under there <snipped> You’re not losing anything.

Wrong. There is exotic gear hiding behind Unidentified gear, as I stated on my post on the page 3 of this thread, which is related to the new Elite specialisation collections:

Spellbreaker’s specialisation collection, for example, includes an exotic dagger, Darehk’s Quick End, which, as ANet kindly inform us, is “found when identifying gear, or purchased from the Black Lion Trading Post” – if your magic find sucks. It is more than safe to say that every new Elite specialisation will include one such item.

It is clearly shown on WoodenPotatoes video here, at 11:37 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB85m26d6GY

Also, when you don’t indentify said gear you are losing an X number -depending on your Magic Find- of rares which give ectos. Salvaging unidentified gear directly is less lucrative than the other way around.

Rude_Asura on Reddit did some tests during the demo weekend, here are the results:

Salvaging unidentified gear directly VS identifying gear before salvaging:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6tidl8/loot_table_from_salvaging_85_each_unidentified/?sort=old

Galactic.6453:

Pifil.5193:

You are losing something though. There’s an opportunity cost here that not everyone seems to understand. That is (lemme get a definition from wikipedia):

“the opportunity cost, also known as alternative cost, is the value (not a benefit) of the choice of a best alternative cost while making a decision. A choice needs to be made between several mutually exclusive alternatives; assuming the best choice is made, it is the “cost” incurred by not enjoying the benefit that would have been had by taking the second best available choice."

So there is an opportunity cost associated with choosing to salvage and also an opportunity cost associated with choosing to ID it (and probably then salvage the results). To say you’re not losing out on anything by choosing one of these mutually exclusive paths is just not true. It’s more accurate to say that you don’t care about the opportunity costs but not everyone feels the same way.

But it’s the same thing when you dump them in the mystic forge.
You lose out on the salvage mats and might get one useless green instead of 4. And if you salvage them you lose out on the chance of getting a rare. There is never such a thing as best of both worlds.
The real question that makes the difference is whether or not we get rare and exotic drops regardless of the unidentified gear drops.

You’re not making a case for the whole system by comparing it to throwing stuff in the mystic forge.

The best way to avoid the whole “no such thing as the best of both worlds” situation, is to only have 1 “world”. Give me a regular, pre-identified piece of loot every time.

Neurion.4086:

Rude_Asura on Reddit did some tests during the demo weekend, here are the results:

Salvaging unidentified gear directly VS identifying gear before salvaging:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6tidl8/loot_table_from_salvaging_85_each_unidentified/?sort=old

Well, reading that thread it seems to say that rares and exotics still drop regardless, so it goes back to my original point that these are purely salvageable currencies for gambling. If you don’t lose your regular rare drops, and your greens are worth more, because they could be rares, then isn’t it a plus? It also normalizes the material prices by making lower tier mats more available. And someone did the maths and salvaging the unidentified seems to be worth more, but identifying them gives you a chance for the sunspear skins and the elite spec collection weapons.
So you identify if you’re feeling lucky and want the skins and salvage otherwise.

just in case ppl still think it’s the same as GW1, this is how GW1 does it.
nothing is a mystery except the stats, that’s the biggest problem the GW2 version has, no information.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Well I heard that we’ll be identify’n (fy’n)
Gonna have to go do the heart (do the heart)
‘Cause ANet found a a brand new annoyance
And decided that fun ain’t in the cards (aahh..).

So I’ll pull (I’ll pull) the game off of my hard drive (ooh)
And I’ll surrender my fan club card
And I’ll burn down the forum where we come to talk
Because this new feature fails hard.

You ain’t gonna see me identifyin’
I wish that they’d find something new
‘Cause I’d rather spend eternity eating Eggs Beetletun
Than give up knowing what’s in my loot

I guess I might seem sort of angry
ANet’s got me feeling like I’m not a fan
‘Cause I’m looking at something the opposite of fun
And there ain’t no way I’m gonna stand (fo-o-o-orr itt)

OK, so ANet, give me back my wallet
I’m not inclined to pay for this now
‘Cause I’d rather have a hundred thousand Charr sit on my face
Than ID any loot, and how.

I’d rather rip out my SSD
Than watch loot I could of had be salvaged
I’d rather slam my mace down on my face (yah)
Over and over and over and over again

Oh, can’t you see what I’m tryin’ to say, ANet…

I’d rather have my blood sucked out by Blizzard (Blizzard)
I’d rather play a Facebook game or two
I’d rather clean all the floors in the Black Citadel with my tongue
Than change the way we get loot.

Yes, I’d rather jump naked into Arah,
Or post comments on a fan site, so cold (co-o-o-o-old)
I’d rather dive into the piranha-filled hole in Tangled Depths
Than ID my loot drops for gold.

I’d rather Jenna ripped Logan’s heart out of his ribcage with her hands
and then threw it on the floor and stomped on it ’till he died
Than spend one minute IDin.

Disclaimer One: sincere apologies to Weird Al.
Disclaimer Two: This is a satirical attempt to let my feelings be known, the threats are not real.
Disclaimer Three: While I may or may not quit the game or purchase POF, this feature has managed to rile me as nothing else ANet has done in five years has.
Disclaimer Four: I know, don’t quit my day job.

LOL, nice one.

Pifil.5193:

Now you might think that it’s only 1s 68c and that’s not much. Yeah, identifying a single item doesn’t cost that much. Identifying thousands over the course of the expansion? Well, that adds up quickly doesn’t it.

Nevermind the ADDED time to ID before salvaging / selling that you never had to spend before. Plus the ADDED time to complete a heart before IDing that you never had to spend before…

Galactic.6453:

I feel like there there is a major misunderstanding as to what unidentified gear is.
There is no exotic or precursor “hiding” under there, it is simply a generic salvage item called “unidentified gear”. It doesn’t preroll anything.
You can either salvage it right there for profit or use it as a currency to gamble for good gear with heart vendors, which will on average always net you a loss. That’s how gambling works.

Identifying it on heart vendors is essentially the same thing as flushing your gear down the Mystic Forge, which gives you a chance of the next tier.
You’re not losing anything.

How are you certain? Do you have knowledge that the rest of us don’t from playing the preview? Please link it.

sorudo.9054:

just in case ppl still think it’s the same as GW1, this is how GW1 does it.
nothing is a mystery except the stats, that’s the biggest problem the GW2 version has, no information.

In a sense, the lack of information isn’t really a problem.

Your screen perfectly shows that the thing called “Unidentified gear” in PoF is not your average unidentified gear from any other (MMO)RPG. What we have here is a mere chest, or currency. Nothing much to freak about.

The only thing I reproach them with is I’m supposed to have the choice between salvaging or converting. Yet, I also know some collectibles or skins are locked behind the identification process, so it feels compulsory to identify till it’s all unlocked. After that, I’ll just salvage everything…

Galactic.6453:

But it’s the same thing when you dump them in the mystic forge.

No, it’s not the same. If you flush items in the MF, you know exactly what you are flushing. You can see how much it Vendors for. You can look up what you would get for it on the TP. If it is Medium Armor, you know exactly what kinds of salvage materials you could have received and whether it was possible to get any Ectos from it.

With UnID Gear, you don’t know anything about it so you can’t make an informed decision whether to salvage it or not.

Djinn.9245:

Galactic.6453:

I feel like there there is a major misunderstanding as to what unidentified gear is.
There is no exotic or precursor “hiding” under there, it is simply a generic salvage item called “unidentified gear”. It doesn’t preroll anything.
You can either salvage it right there for profit or use it as a currency to gamble for good gear with heart vendors, which will on average always net you a loss. That’s how gambling works.

Identifying it on heart vendors is essentially the same thing as flushing your gear down the Mystic Forge, which gives you a chance of the next tier.
You’re not losing anything.

How are you certain? Do you have knowledge that the rest of us don’t from playing the preview? Please link it.

Galactic is engaging in the fallacy fallacy. Yes, it’s a fallacy that there is anything predetermined about what loot is in UNid items. However, the mistake (if anyone is actually making it) is irrelevant to the point being made.

When GW2 awards loot, the program “rolls” on a pseudo-random number generator. An UNID’d item merely postpones the roll until after the player meets multiple conditions (clear heart, go to heart vendor, pay coin). At that point, a roll is made. We do not at this point know what pseudo-random table is going to be used if we ID, but we can state with certainty that whatever table it is, it certainly could have been used for a random drop roll as well as for IDing.

Comparing the ID feature to the MF, however, is not that bad. In both cases, we know that salvaging is going to get us crafting materials, so the opportunity cost, while not exactly known, can be inferred with some degree of accuracy. In both cases, the outcome may be something desirable. Where they are different is that we do not as yet know the relative chances in the ID process, whereas we know that the MF chances are poor. Also different is that the MF uses a 4:1 ration and IDing does not. Finally, while the forge eats 4 to give one, it does not also charge a fee.

ThomasC.1056:

sorudo.9054:

just in case ppl still think it’s the same as GW1, this is how GW1 does it.
nothing is a mystery except the stats, that’s the biggest problem the GW2 version has, no information.

In a sense, the lack of information isn’t really a problem.

Your screen perfectly shows that the thing called “Unidentified gear” in PoF is not your average unidentified gear from any other (MMO)RPG. What we have here is a mere chest, or currency. Nothing much to freak about.

The only thing I reproach them with is I’m supposed to have the choice between salvaging or converting. Yet, I also know some collectibles or skins are locked behind the identification process, so it feels compulsory to identify till it’s all unlocked. After that, I’ll just salvage everything…

you have to pay for every single piece of gear and waste time just to get the ID progress going every single day.

I think it just adds an unnecessary step. How does this improve the game?

kurfu.5623:

Despite the mental gymnastics by some people trying to justify this system, having to pay to get loot you have earned is a terrible idea.

Having to invest 15000000 clicks to empty your inventory, hurting your tendons in the process, is an even worse idea.

And it’s kitten good they’re finally doing something about it. Sorry, but I’d rather get my salvage mats directly.

Harvestr.6052:

I think it just adds an unnecessary step. How does this improve the game?

Saving myself lots of steps to process my inventory is a big improvement, wouldn’t you agree. The majority of the loot is now done via a simple mass-salvage → deposit.

Carighan.6758:

Harvestr.6052:

I think it just adds an unnecessary step. How does this improve the game?

Saving myself lots of steps to process my inventory is a big improvement, wouldn’t you agree. The majority of the loot is now done via a simple mass-salvage -> deposit.

I would not agree. It only saves you steps if you choose not to ID. If you choose to ID, it adds inconvenience and cost. If ANet were really interested in simplifying things for everyone, they would have done something different. They could have, for instance:

1. Dropped loot bags of less than green rarity.
2. Made all loot bags of the specific rarities remaining stack instead of having multiple different bags of the same rarity.
3. Put in a vendor-all option (potentially by rarity the way salvage works) for runes/sigils as an option on the inventory UI.

Essentially, while this feature might benefit the player who is cynical about loot in GW2, it kittens the player who likes loot.

Why are people saying it removes clutter? It doesn’t remove it… greens and blues still drop. It just cuts it down a little.

What should have happened:

1. Replace all blues, greens, yellow, and oranges with “unided COLOR gear”.
2. Double-clicking on a stack identifies 1 piece just like opening a bag.
3. Right click to salvage all without identifying.

So basically make them bags.

That’s it. That’s all they had to do. Nobody wanted a system with heart quests and paying to see what you got. Nobody. And none of that hiding yellows and oranges behind blues and greens.

RedDeadFred.1256:

I’m happy with it. Saves a ton of space and when I salvage them I don’t have to worry about a bunch of useless sigils clogging up my inventory. You guys are acting like this is anti-consumer, but I’d say it’s the exact opposite. You should never feel tempted again to buy extra bag slots and you can play longer without having to go to a vendor.

IMO, the pros vastly out-weigh the cons.

I would argue about that, plus don’t forget the time sync of having to first complete a heart just to get the items ID’d and the price for the ID is “risky”. Say you do a really big event etc then you have to first go to a heart area, spend time doing the heart (hearts seemed to fill a bit slower), finally you ID everything only to determine that all of it was worth less than the amount spent. Not exactly a good bargain.

Carighan.6758:

kurfu.5623:

Despite the mental gymnastics by some people trying to justify this system, having to pay to get loot you have earned is a terrible idea.

Having to invest 15000000 clicks to empty your inventory, hurting your tendons in the process, is an even worse idea.

And it’s kitten good they’re finally doing something about it. Sorry, but I’d rather get my salvage mats directly.

Harvestr.6052:

I think it just adds an unnecessary step. How does this improve the game?

Saving myself lots of steps to process my inventory is a big improvement, wouldn’t you agree. The majority of the loot is now done via a simple mass-salvage -> deposit.

Perhaps for you, but those of us who like to see what we’re getting now have to first finish a heart, then go through all the cash to check out our loot and then finally determine if the loot is worth anything. While “saving space” might be a goal for some, not all of us feel that way.

People seem to think it’s an advantage they stack to 250. How’s that an advantage when you’re finally sitting down to ID that stack? Getting hundreds of useless blues and greens at a time and more green sigils and runes than you’ve ever seen before?

It solves nothing. It just postpones the misery, plus it adds a fee and a few extra steps of busywork for good measure. It’s an absolutely awful prospect.