Guild Wars 2

Ferelwing.8463:

Ok, serious question.
Are rares and exotics being removed from the loot tables that include these unidentified gear kits?
Because this makes all of the difference.
I am operating under the assumption that they are NOT removed from these loot tables?

Ok, if they are indeed removing the chance to roll on yellows and exos and replacing everything on the loot table with green unidentified gear then I def see your frustration.
I was assuming that the loot tables would look relatively the same, save for the fact that instead blues and greens you would get the gear kits.
Carry on, nothing to see here.

BoogerSammich.7189:

Daddicus.6128:

BoogerSammich.7189:

This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.

How? You still need those same slots after identifying the items.

That is an entirely separate conversation.
Maybe you will randomly ID gear while in the middle of playing.
I would ID/salvage near a vendor.

That’s irrelevant. When you ID them, they separate out into individual slots. So, you need exactly the same number of slots you did before.

• ID kits should be available from basic merchants, not heart vendors.
• Unidentified gear needs to stack by (and display said) rarit. That way everyone can decide what to salvage and what to identify, provided that the main point of this new (old) mechanic is to save inventory space…

I think that would be the ideal solution for everyone, no?

Dante.1763:

Ferelwing.8463:

He was asking if you can get those drops and they look different in unid’d form. The answer to that was no, the loot was all exactly the same color so you have no idea if you are carrying rare/exotic/precursors in your inventory or not as they were not separated till after you id’d them.

Deleted my post before you even posted that, my god you are kitten fast.

But yes, i realized that. I read really quick and skip words sometimes :P

Lol sorry about that, yeah I’d just hit refresh.

Daddicus.6128:

BoogerSammich.7189:

Daddicus.6128:

BoogerSammich.7189:

This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.

How? You still need those same slots after identifying the items.

That is an entirely separate conversation.
Maybe you will randomly ID gear while in the middle of playing.
I would ID/salvage near a vendor.

That’s irrelevant. When you ID them, they separate out into individual slots. So, you need exactly the same number of slots you did before.

It’s not irrelevant.
In fact, it’s entirely relevant.
we are talking about carrying around gear.
ID’ing the gear and/or salvaging it is a completely different conversation.

Ashantara.8731:

• ID kits should be available from basic merchants, not heart vendors.
• Unidentified gear needs to stack by (and display said) rarit. That way everyone can decide what to salvage and what to identify, provided that the main point of this new (old) mechanic is to save inventory space…

I think that would be the ideal solution for everyone, no?

I wouldn’t like it honestly but it would be better than the current form. Honestly, the whole thing just feels like a regression in game-play, why do we suddenly have to start paying for something that we had innately to begin with? I do understand the problem is inventory space but surely there’s another way to handle it?

I dunno the more I think about it the more I keep thinking perhaps a token system : Have a genii hold your gear till you can retrieve it with tokens by getting a Mastery for it or something along those lines. The idea that all of a sudden because we’ve come to an area that harkens back to GW1, that we bring with it GW1 mechanics sort of bothers me (from what I’ve read having to id things was a Guild Wars 1 thing). You’d think after 200 or so years that they’d have changed? I’m not really in favor of it, it’s jarring to suddenly have to pay to id things. I really do not like it.

Ashantara.8731:

• ID kits should be available from basic merchants, not heart vendors.
• Unidentified gear needs to stack by (and display said) rarit. That way everyone can decide what to salvage and what to identify, provided that the main point of this new (old) mechanic is to save inventory space…

I think that would be the ideal solution for everyone, no?

Not if the price remains the same. To salvage Fine items now, I pay 3c each. I would be OK with a stack of items that cost me 3c to ID AND salvage. But, having to pay 1.68s each just to id something worth the price of the mats only is highway robbery.

BoogerSammich.7189:

It’s not irrelevant.
In fact, it’s entirely relevant.
we are talking about carrying around gear.
ID’ing the gear and/or salvaging it is a completely different conversation.

OK, so you’re saying we can ID 250 items, and put them … where?

If you ID a stack of items, that requires 250 slots. Otherwise, you can’t finish IDing the stack.

Daddicus.6128:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

How about a mastery to automatically give you the coin value of green sigils and runes when you would obtain them from salvaging? I’d prefer that to this disaster of an ID system.

No, that won’t work. There are some green sigils and runes that I sell on the TP. And I sell almost all rare sigils and runes.

But, it’s a good idea, as long as I’m not forced to use it once I attain the mastery.

Much easier to implement the suggestion made years ago: allow a list of items which this player considers “junk”.

There are green runes/sigils that aren’t at vendor value on the TP?

It wouldn’t apply to Rare or higher quality gear, of course. Just, instead of getting the green sigil/rune, you get the coin value.

BoogerSammich.7189:

Daddicus.6128:

BoogerSammich.7189:

Daddicus.6128:

BoogerSammich.7189:

This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.

How? You still need those same slots after identifying the items.

That is an entirely separate conversation.
Maybe you will randomly ID gear while in the middle of playing.
I would ID/salvage near a vendor.

That’s irrelevant. When you ID them, they separate out into individual slots. So, you need exactly the same number of slots you did before.

It’s not irrelevant.
In fact, it’s entirely relevant.
we are talking about carrying around gear.
ID’ing the gear and/or salvaging it is a completely different conversation.

I used to just salvage on the spot and sell things to tp or put it in mats storage while running around. If I had a problem (ie sigils/runes that were worthless, then I’d see a vendor). It was never really a problem since I’d immediately begin the process as soon as an event was over or immediately after I opened a chest. Carrying around salvaging kits got to be frustrating so I bought the silver-matic/copper-matic and then paid to have extra shared inventory slots so that all of my chars could use them immediately. I realize that’s not an option for everyone but I still think it’s way better than the options we’ve been given. Especially since the unidentified gear comes in 1 color and you have to “guess” whether or not you’re getting rare/exotic/precursor style loot or green/blue loot.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

There are green runes/sigils that aren’t at vendor value on the TP?

It wouldn’t apply to Rare or higher quality gear, of course. Just, instead of getting the green sigil/rune, you get the coin value.

Yes, although they vary. At times, Rage, Strength, and especially Bloodlust all go for more. It depends on time of year and whether there’s been a recent addition of content. Last I checked, Bloodlust was in the 60c range. The others, though, are all merchant food at last check (I check every day, but not today yet).

Daddicus.6128:

Ashantara.8731:

• ID kits should be available from basic merchants, not heart vendors.
• Unidentified gear needs to stack by (and display said) rarit. That way everyone can decide what to salvage and what to identify, provided that the main point of this new (old) mechanic is to save inventory space…

I think that would be the ideal solution for everyone, no?

Not if the price remains the same. To salvage Fine items now, I pay 3c each. I would be OK with a stack of items that cost me 3c to ID AND salvage. But, having to pay 1.68s each just to id something worth the price of the mats only is highway robbery.

You’ve got a point, and truthfully I’m not sure I’m ok with the entire mechanic period. It just feels wrong to go from innately knowing what rewards you got to having to pay even just a token amount to know. I know they did it in Guild Wars 1 and the new area is in the “old” area but I’m not sure if I like that they decided to revisit that as part of this new expansion. I don’t like something that was innate being placed behind a paywall because “we changed maps”.

And if they give us an “identify loot” mastery it will be redundant because the only place we’ll need this mastery is in PoF zones and it really feels like a bad “choice” overall.

Daddicus.6128:

BoogerSammich.7189:

It’s not irrelevant.
In fact, it’s entirely relevant.
we are talking about carrying around gear.
ID’ing the gear and/or salvaging it is a completely different conversation.

OK, so you’re saying we can ID 250 items, and put them … where?

If you ID a stack of items, that requires 250 slots. Otherwise, you can’t finish IDing the stack.

If you are carrying around a stack of 250 unidentified gear, it takes ONE inventory slot..
If you are carrying around 250 pieces of identified gear, then it takes 250 inventory slots.
249 inventory slots saved with the unidentified gear. full stop.

Now, if you decide to ID the gear, then you have taken action to convert the unidentified gear into actual gear.
You no longer have unidentified gear, through your actions you now have identified gear.
It is at this point that the conversation changes because you have taken action to convert the unidentified gear into individual pieces of gear.

But again, so long as you continue to have unidentified gear, then inventory slots are saved.

BoogerSammich.7189:

Daddicus.6128:

BoogerSammich.7189:

It’s not irrelevant.
In fact, it’s entirely relevant.
we are talking about carrying around gear.
ID’ing the gear and/or salvaging it is a completely different conversation.

OK, so you’re saying we can ID 250 items, and put them … where?

If you ID a stack of items, that requires 250 slots. Otherwise, you can’t finish IDing the stack.

If you are carrying around a stack of 250 unidentified gear, it takes ONE inventory slot..
If you are carrying around 250 pieces of identified gear, then it takes 250 inventory slots.
249 inventory slots saved with the unidentified gear. full stop.

Now, if you decide to ID the gear, then you have taken action to convert the unidentified gear into actual gear.
You no longer have unidentified gear, through your actions you now have identified gear.
It is at this point that the conversation changes because you have taken action to convert the unidentified gear into individual pieces of gear.

But again, so long as you continue to have unidentified gear, then inventory slots are saved.

Yes true but we already had something that stacked in 250 bags of masterful gear. (3 items in each so thats 750 in that stack comparibly)

We dident need to pay about 5 silver to get the 3 pieces of gear out of those so why the change now?

Linken.6345:

BoogerSammich.7189:

Daddicus.6128:

BoogerSammich.7189:

It’s not irrelevant.
In fact, it’s entirely relevant.
we are talking about carrying around gear.
ID’ing the gear and/or salvaging it is a completely different conversation.

OK, so you’re saying we can ID 250 items, and put them … where?

If you ID a stack of items, that requires 250 slots. Otherwise, you can’t finish IDing the stack.

If you are carrying around a stack of 250 unidentified gear, it takes ONE inventory slot..
If you are carrying around 250 pieces of identified gear, then it takes 250 inventory slots.
249 inventory slots saved with the unidentified gear. full stop.

Now, if you decide to ID the gear, then you have taken action to convert the unidentified gear into actual gear.
You no longer have unidentified gear, through your actions you now have identified gear.
It is at this point that the conversation changes because you have taken action to convert the unidentified gear into individual pieces of gear.

But again, so long as you continue to have unidentified gear, then inventory slots are saved.

Yes true but we already had something that stacked in 250 bags of masterful gear. (3 items in each so thats 750 in that stack comparibly)

We dident need to pay about 5 silver to get the 3 pieces of gear out of those so why the change now?

Yeah, I’m not sure why they didn’t just go with a new stackable bag type instead of the unidentified gear.

Welcome to Vanilla Destiny: Guild Wars 2 edition.

The gambling for gear system there made the game incredibly Not-fun. The id system here favours players who have full ascended for their characters and will feel like punishment to people who don’t. I think it’s human nature too that if you were giving people something for free and then you give it a cost later people get angry. Anet seems to want to inflate the prices of materials and skins on the TP by making access to mats from gear salvaging more expensive in PoF areas. I definitely don’t want this system made universal. Gambling mechanics in any form are addictive not fun. They prevent you playing how you want as they encourage grinding for unlocks, here gold. I want to play not grind gold to get the unlocks I want.

If it’s PoF areas only maybe the idea is to force people into HoT areas to get their ectos and mats. Realistically, I doubt Anet wants to punish players for playing in PoF areas.

From an RP perspective it seems hilarious. Your character who could recognise a sword from a shield got brain damage fighting during living world 3 and now needs someone else to put the gear in their hands. Makes you wonder how that engie can still activate photon forge? Now she’s an idiot savant!

Destiny fixed their system by making each rarity a guarenteed drop from its own colour unidentified piece with a tiny chance of dropping a higher rarity from a lower tier. Just make unid tiers and let ectis drop from unid rare and exotic salvages then adjust drop rates of each tier.

BoogerSammich.7189:

Linken.6345:

BoogerSammich.7189:

Daddicus.6128:

BoogerSammich.7189:

It’s not irrelevant.
In fact, it’s entirely relevant.
we are talking about carrying around gear.
ID’ing the gear and/or salvaging it is a completely different conversation.

OK, so you’re saying we can ID 250 items, and put them … where?

If you ID a stack of items, that requires 250 slots. Otherwise, you can’t finish IDing the stack.

If you are carrying around a stack of 250 unidentified gear, it takes ONE inventory slot..
If you are carrying around 250 pieces of identified gear, then it takes 250 inventory slots.
249 inventory slots saved with the unidentified gear. full stop.

Now, if you decide to ID the gear, then you have taken action to convert the unidentified gear into actual gear.
You no longer have unidentified gear, through your actions you now have identified gear.
It is at this point that the conversation changes because you have taken action to convert the unidentified gear into individual pieces of gear.

But again, so long as you continue to have unidentified gear, then inventory slots are saved.

Yes true but we already had something that stacked in 250 bags of masterful gear. (3 items in each so thats 750 in that stack comparibly)

We dident need to pay about 5 silver to get the 3 pieces of gear out of those so why the change now?

Yeah, I’m not sure why they didn’t just go with a new stackable bag type instead of the unidentified gear.

Cause they wanted to add more gamble and / or because they wanted to sell us a gear ID tool in the gemstore.

Let’s face it, this is a gold sink. It may later be a means to entice purchase of an identify kit from the gem store, along with another shared slot to put it in. If the gold sink is needed, then it should not also come with added inconvenience, which may or may not later be partially circumvented by a gem store item. If they wanted to use gambling for items as a gold sink, they could have done something like they did for the Canthan New Year. But no, they had to mess with loot.

This is not a feature to save bag space for the entire player base. It may save some small amount of space for those who won’t bother IDing anything. The UNID’d item is just another unopened bag which can be salvaged. Other containers dropped for me in PoF, along with some blue and green item drops. Space saving was no better than getting stacking bags in HoT.

The only benefit for anyone that’s new is the salvage-without-opening option. If this was truly about saving bag space, all they had to do was use one container for a map rather than several. They also could have emulated the salvage option by adding a second item type whose only purpose was to be salvaged — no ID needed or possible.

No, they had to tie the two aspects of the feature together, in a way that adds time, inconvenience and cost to anyone whose interest is in seeing what loot they got. I have to say, I’m kinda … disgusted.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Let’s face it, this is a gold sink. It may later be a means to entice purchase of an identify kit from the gem store, along with another shared slot to put it in. If the gold sink is needed, then it should not also come with added inconvenience, which may or may not later be partially circumvented by a gem store item. If they wanted to use gambling for items as a gold sink, they could have done something like they did for the Canthan New Year. But no, they had to mess with loot.

This is not a feature to save bag space for the entire player base. It may save some small amount of space for those who won’t bother IDing anything. The UNID’d item is just another unopened bag which can be salvaged. Other containers dropped for me in PoF, along with some blue and green item drops. Space saving was no better than getting stacking bags in HoT.

The only benefit for anyone that’s new is the salvage-without-opening option. If this was truly about saving bag space, all they had to do was use one container for a map rather than several. They also could have emulated the salvage option by adding a second item type whose only purpose was to be salvaged — no ID needed or possible.

No, they had to tie the two aspects of the feature together, in a way that adds time, inconvenience and cost to anyone whose interest is in seeing what loot they got. I have to say, I’m kinda … disgusted.

Yea, it’s a big mess. Let’s do WHATEVER they were trying to do in the most complicated, least convenient way possible.

kurfu.5623:

Despite the mental gymnastics by some people trying to justify this system, having to pay to get loot you have earned is a terrible idea.

You aren’t paying for the loot you earned, that is sitting in your inventory in the form of trophies, waiting to be salvaged into lots of materials. If you so wish, you can also trade those trophies with some coin for a chance at better loot than you already have also and unique skins.

JaddynnStarr.5201:

I think this is how it happened…..

(Anet employee): Guys guys guys! I got it (snicker)! Our fans are sooooo stupid…. (snicker)
(Group of Anet employes together): How stupid are they??!?!?!?
(Anet employee): Our fans are sooooooo stupid….(snicker laugh) they will pay “US” for the mats they loot in game now!!!
(Group of Anet employees): AHAHAHAHAHAH!!! YAS!!!!
(Anet employee): (tears in his eyes from laughing so hard) AND…AND… AAAAAND… wait for it…. Get this…. We will give them a gem store item that will identify this gear for them at more cost then the mats are worth!!!! AND AND AND…. (snicker) Itll cost them 1000 GEMS!
(all Anet employees Rolling on the ground with laughter): AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

You know what’s going to be even better? When I make thousands of gold because of all the people who hate this new system and do not understand it.

+1 for scrapping identify.

Smiggles.6823:

…Anet seems to want to inflate the prices of materials and skins on the TP by making access to mats from gear salvaging more expensive in PoF areas. I definitely don’t want this system made universal…

Have you seen how many more materials are created when you salvage the unid gear? it’s significantly more (over double) than salvaging weapons/armor and all tiers are created, meaning the supply of the lower tiers will be increased significantly. I’d say they want to reduce the cost of materials because that’s exactly what salvaging the unid gear will do.

The cost of materials doesn’t matter. What will ultimately happen is less rare & exotic (including precursors?) because a certain percentage of them are hidden behind Unidentified Gear. Only those with high Magic Find have a good chance of getting rares & exotics, so screw the new players. The new players get to either just salvage their UnID or pay exorbitantly in both $ and time to ID it for a not-good chance at better stuff.

Sounds great for the old players with high Magic Find. Too bad for everyone else.

Djinn.9245:

The cost of materials doesn’t matter. What will ultimately happen is less rare & exotic (including precursors?) because a certain percentage of them are hidden behind Unidentified Gear. Only those with high Magic Find have a good chance of getting rares & exotics, so screw the new players. The new players get to either just salvage their UnID or pay exorbitantly in both $ and time to ID it for a not-good chance at better stuff.

Sounds great for the old players with high Magic Find. Too bad for everyone else.

They’ll make even more money than they would by salvaging the rares they rarely get by either selling the unid directly or salvaging and selling the materials, allowing them to just buy ecto.

This system is the best of both worlds since it allows new players with little MF to turn an even better profit (since they will still be getting fewer rares from drops because of their low MF) or generate a lot more materials for themselves. And it also gives Magic Find more value, for those that do have high MF, buying the unids on the TP, IDing them is likely to result in greater numbers of ecto being available as well as exotics and rares. The drop rate of rares from these ID’d with high MF is orders of magnitude better than mob drops.

Not only that, but the gold sink in IDing the items is needed and the increased use of the TP to sell the unids is also another gold sink. Gold sinks are needed to prevent hyper-inflation.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Djinn.9245:

The cost of materials doesn’t matter. What will ultimately happen is less rare & exotic (including precursors?) because a certain percentage of them are hidden behind Unidentified Gear. Only those with high Magic Find have a good chance of getting rares & exotics, so screw the new players. The new players get to either just salvage their UnID or pay exorbitantly in both $ and time to ID it for a not-good chance at better stuff.

Sounds great for the old players with high Magic Find. Too bad for everyone else.

They’ll make even more money than they would by salvaging the rares they rarely get by either selling the unid directly or salvaging and selling the materials, allowing them to just buy ecto.

This system is the best of both worlds since it allows new players with little MF to turn an even better profit (since they will still be getting fewer rares from drops because of their low MF) or generate a lot more materials for themselves. And it also gives Magic Find more value, for those that do have high MF, buying the unids on the TP, IDing them is likely to result in greater numbers of ecto being available as well as exotics and rares. The drop rate of rares from these ID’d with high MF is orders of magnitude better than mob drops.

Not only that, but the gold sink in IDing the items is needed and the increased use of the TP to sell the unids is also another gold sink. Gold sinks are needed to prevent hyper-inflation.

Rares and Exotics/precursor etc are mixed into the bunch and the loot from salvaging those is the same as salvaging a blue/green minus the sigils/runes. So no they will not make “even more money”. As has been discussed previously there isn’t a way to determine what is of value for “sale/mats” and what isn’t. When you salvage you do not get ecto/sigils/anything (but eyes of Kormir and no one knows what those are for).

So no it’s a gold sink and it’s mats aren’t separating into types (rare/exotic etc). In both cases these choices don’t feel meaningful or good. They feel like gambling and I don’t want to trade knowing what something is worth for “paying/spending time” for the same thing. I also do not want to buy an id mechanic (either gem store or otherwise) for new zones when all of the old zones don’t require it. I don’t like having an innate ability removed just to make me spend gold, your idea that it will fix inflation is wrong people with HoT will just go to those maps for loot, it will make it so those maps are still inhabited and rather then bother with the new mechanic you can continue to do AB or some of the other maps. Not all of the playerbase is going to buy the new expac and it’s unlikely that this new mechanic is going to be a “selling point” I would personally put it on the “con” list. Mounts are nice and perhaps fun but I can buy the expac, get the mounts and then stay in HoT areas for the loot. The cost is cheaper and the rewards for getting the loot are not “taxed”.

I don’t have a lot of gold, I’ve only been playing for a year and I don’t generally sell mats on the TP because I like having them for crafting items. I like the fact that every time I do an event I get loot that I can see and decide whether I want to salvage it or if it has value. The RNG happens with my knowledge. I don’t like the idea that I now have to make a catch 22 choice “Do I have enough gold to really risk looking at all this or do I just salvage it and wonder what I could have gotten”.. Neither of those feel like good choices. If I choose to salvage it then I always wonder if I could have gotten something useful. If I choose to ID the items and I spend the 2s60-2s90 copper and I get 2 mithril worth 60 copper… I will wish I’d just salvaged. Neither of these choices are "good options.

What’s the point of upping your “luck” if you never have enough money to spend to see what your “luck” got you? All of I sudden I now have to switch my focus from playing the game and just doing things, deciding what I want to keep or salvage or sell, to “which of two bad options do I go with and how can I get more gold so that I can continue to feel bad about these options”.

This isn’t a “best of both worlds”, I’ve been playing for a year and it feels like instead of encouraging me to want to keep playing they’re punishing me for not playing as long as someone else with a ton of gold to spend. This “catch22” is unnecessary and it’s not a useful mechanic, this will not fix inflation (You can still go to every other area and not have to pay to id items so the “glut” will still be there for mats), it’s not going to fix the inventory space issue, in general it just feels like it’s supposed to be a call-back to GW1 (also unnecessary).

Daddicus.6128:

Rashagar.8349:

Because within days of release the drop rates etc will be understood by those that want to know and there will be people who buy them en masse for their massed coppers of profit after prices normalise, amd especially if the price of something fluctuates enough to make it massed tens of coppers or even massed silvers.

Not if the TP price is lower than the minimum sale price, which seems extremely likely. (I can’t imagine anybody actually paying for the things.)

If the perceived value (TP price) of these unidentified whatevers is lower than the minimum sale price there will still be a stack of 200,000 or something similarly ridiculously large for 1c above the minimum sale price on the TP, and there will still be people who buy them (just not as many as people who sell them).
Eg. people who like to gamble, people who what’s it called, invest with an eye for future changes to loot tables, people who aren’t in the mood for actually playing the game to earn their own unidentified gear but still want to try their luck at making a profit or unlocking skins.

Just because you can’t imagine who’d buy them doesn’t mean no one will. I can’t imagine anyone buying green runes/sigils but by your own example there are people who do. I’ve had random terrible level 10 food sell on the TP within the last few days for the coppers they were “worth”. People buy potions of x slaying. People buy tiny snowflakes!!!

But I’m quite sick of explaining my original joke at this stage so it really doesn’t matter.
I’m just going to brace myself for the inevitable person who comes along and decides to explain exactly why buying tiny snowflakes is a great idea and hence somehow my whole post must be invalid.

Ferelwing.8463:

…snip…

You’re just thinking about this from the wrong end. It’s just a different system. Rares and exotics are not mixed into the bunch, they do not exist until you ID the trophies that you get as a drop. Imagine they are a chest that has a random item inside and a better chance at getting a rare than you do from drops and that it costs you 1.68s to open them. The beauty is that if you just want materials, you can salvage them directly and get a lot more materials than you do usually, like a LOT more.

Yes, it’s a gold sink, which is required.

If you like keeping your materials for crafting, this is going to be a lot better system as you well get a lot more materials by salvaging the unid.

The RNG happens with your knowledge here too, and you have a far better chance at rares, even with low MF when you ID these unid trophies.’

It absolutely is a “best of both worlds” because now you can make even more materials from salvage, or more gold than previously from selling the unid or salvage them for more rares than you would have gotten from drops too.

You can’t really fix inflation, you can only slow it, this will help somewhat.

It is a call-back to GW1 where people made lots of money selling unid items and others liked them because they could get them cheaper, get decent skins and sometimes make bank with good upgrades. I think however they should have just called them something else so people who don’t understand how they work wouldn’t think they are missing out on anything.

Look at this example.

Rashagar.8349:

Daddicus.6128:

Rashagar.8349:

Because within days of release the drop rates etc will be understood by those that want to know and there will be people who buy them en masse for their massed coppers of profit after prices normalise, amd especially if the price of something fluctuates enough to make it massed tens of coppers or even massed silvers.

Not if the TP price is lower than the minimum sale price, which seems extremely likely. (I can’t imagine anybody actually paying for the things.)

If the perceived value (TP price) of these unidentified whatevers is lower than the minimum sale price there will still be a stack of 200,000 or something similarly ridiculously large for 1c above the minimum sale price on the TP, and there will still be people who buy them (just not as many as people who sell them).
Eg. people who like to gamble, people who what’s it called, invest with an eye for future changes to loot tables, people who aren’t in the mood for actually playing the game to earn their own unidentified gear but still want to try their luck at making a profit or unlocking skins.

Just because you can’t imagine who’d buy them doesn’t mean no one will. I can’t imagine anyone buying green runes/sigils but by your own example there are people who do. I’ve had random terrible level 10 food sell on the TP within the last few days for the coppers they were “worth”. People buy potions of x slaying. People buy tiny snowflakes!!!

But I’m quite sick of explaining my original joke at this stage so it really doesn’t matter.
I’m just going to brace myself for the inevitable person who comes along and decides to explain exactly why buying tiny snowflakes is a great idea and hence somehow my whole post must be invalid.

They will sell like hotcakes because they salvage into a lot more material than ordinary green weapons, people who don’t understand are going to list them and those tho do understand are going to buy them and salvage. Or, those that have high MF will buy them, get tons of rares and then salvage into ectos.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Ferelwing.8463:

…snip…

You’re just thinking about this from the wrong end. It’s just a different system. Rares and exotics are not mixed into the bunch, they do not exist until you ID the trophies that you get as a drop. Imagine they are a chest that has a random item inside and a better chance at getting a rare than you do from drops and that it costs you 1.68s to open them. The beauty is that if you just want materials, you can salvage them directly and get a lot more materials than you do usually, like a LOT more.

Yes, it’s a gold sink, which is required.

If you like keeping your materials for crafting, this is going to be a lot better system as you well get a lot more materials by salvaging the unid.

The RNG happens with your knowledge here too, and you have a far better chance at rares, even with low MF when you ID these unid trophies.’

It absolutely is a “best of both worlds” because now you can make even more materials from salvage, or more gold than previously from selling the unid or salvage them for more rares than you would have gotten from drops too.

You can’t really fix inflation, you can only slow it, this will help somewhat.

It is a call-back to GW1 where people made lots of money selling unid items and others liked them because they could get them cheaper, get decent skins and sometimes make bank with good upgrades. I think however they should have just called them something else so people who don’t understand how they work wouldn’t think they are missing out on anything.

I think You are missing a large portion of the information. Unidentified gear is not an add-on to normal loot, but rather a partial replacement of the standard loot. From my weekend approx calc, around 50% of the loot is replaced with unidentified gear. that means, roughly, You are getting 50% less rares, 50% fewer exotics, 50% fewer greens, and 50% fewer blues, unless und gear RNG loot table is different to normal drop. In essence You are losing money, either way, do the identification or don’t. You are talking about the needed Gold sink to keep the price in check, but completely ignoring the surefire outcome of the materials price hike that will come out of this. UND is no-win no-win mechanic.

Excellent Name.9574:

…I think You are missing a large portion of the information. Unidentified gear is not an add-on to normal loot, but rather a partial replacement of the standard loot. From my weekend approx calc, around 50% of the loot is replaced with unidentified gear. that means, roughly, You are getting 50% less rares, 50% fewer exotics, 50% fewer greens, and 50% fewer blues, unless und gear RNG loot table is different to normal drop. In essence You are losing money, either way, do the identification or don’t. You are talking about the needed Gold sink to keep the price in check, but completely ignoring the surefire outcome of the materials price hike that will come out of this. UND is no-win no-win mechanic.

Sigh. Look at this example.

You are getting 200% or more materials from salvaging the unids.

Also, if you can show me another place I can get a 20% chance for rares at a cost of 1.68s, I’ll be playing there all day.

Excellent Name.9574:

but completely ignoring the surefire outcome of the materials price hike that will come out of this. UND is no-win no-win mechanic.

According to the reddit link someone posted before, salvaging the unidentified gears gives more materials of all different tiers than identifying them and then salvaging them.
So I don’t understand why people are saying that you can’t make an informed decision. You absolutely can.

• You either salvage them for reliable income depending on the market value of the mats.
• You identify them if you need the sunspear skins, need the special tokens or feel lucky enough to get the rares

And as far as I know rares still drop the regular way anyway. There’s no way to know the actual rates and how they were changed of course.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Excellent Name.9574:

…I think You are missing a large portion of the information. Unidentified gear is not an add-on to normal loot, but rather a partial replacement of the standard loot. From my weekend approx calc, around 50% of the loot is replaced with unidentified gear. that means, roughly, You are getting 50% less rares, 50% fewer exotics, 50% fewer greens, and 50% fewer blues, unless und gear RNG loot table is different to normal drop. In essence You are losing money, either way, do the identification or don’t. You are talking about the needed Gold sink to keep the price in check, but completely ignoring the surefire outcome of the materials price hike that will come out of this. UND is no-win no-win mechanic.

Sigh. Look at this example.

You are getting 200% or more materials from salvaging the unids.

Also, if you can show me another place I can get a 20% chance for rares at a cost of 1.68s, I’ll be playing there all day.

The mats table is from demo, but so is the loot table that is why /i am reserved on this. Secondly, the guy is using Silver-matic…how many people, in reality, have this item or find it a viable option? The entire mechanic is wrong, even if mat drop rate stays at 200% people will want to identify gear, and it is a loss not gain. either way something will go sky-high if people decide not to identify, exotics, rares, ectos, sigils, runes…will cost a fortune. If they decide to identify the mats will go up and who knows how high.

Excellent Name.9574:

Secondly, the guy is using Silver-matic…how many people, in reality, have this item or find it a viable option?
The entire mechanic is wrong, even if mat drop rate stays at 200% people will want to identify gear, and it is a loss not gain.

Firstly, Silver-o-matics have the exact same stats as master kits or mystic kits and almost everyone uses those.
Secondly the percentages of the kits only apply to rare materials and upgrade recovery, not regular materials so you get the same amount of ore/wood/leather as with a crude kit.

Also whether or not it’s a loss to identify those is entirely dependant on market value and how much the skins are personally worth to you. If ectos are way higher and regular mats are low then it’s profitable to identify. If regular mats are expensive as they are right now then it’s more profitable to straight up salvage them. It’s a way to stabilize material prices and tie them to the ectoplasm supply.

Galactic.6453:

Excellent Name.9574:

Secondly, the guy is using Silver-matic…how many people, in reality, have this item or find it a viable option?
The entire mechanic is wrong, even if mat drop rate stays at 200% people will want to identify gear, and it is a loss not gain.

Firstly, Silver-o-matics have the exact same stats as master kits or mystic kits and almost everyone uses those.
Secondly the percentages of the kits only apply to rare materials and upgrade recovery, not regular materials so you get the same amount of ore/wood/leather as with a crude kit.

Also whether or not it’s a loss to identify those is entirely dependant on market value and how much the skins are personally worth to you. If ectos are way higher and regular mats are low then it’s profitable to identify. If regular mats are expensive as they are right now then it’s more profitable to straight up salvage them. It’s a way to stabilize material prices and tie them to the ectoplasm supply.

No one and I mean no one uses Mystic or Master Kits to salvage Blue or Green gear same goes for Silver-o-Matic. Salvaging UND means, no secondary salvage, like Runes, Sigils, Inscriptions, Insignias, Ectos, Dark Matter as it is all treated like either blue or green. If You think this will stabilize the market, you are mistaken it will devour it.

Excellent Name.9574:

No one and I mean no one uses Mystic or Master Kits to salvage Blue or Green gear same goes for Silver-o-Matic.

Hoo boy do I have bad news for you…

Excellent Name.9574:

Mystic or Master Kits to salvage Blue or Green gear

Yeah that’s why I said it makes no difference because you get the same basic mats either way.
Green sigils could gain to rise a bit in price because they’re worth jacks- at the moment. And it’s not like PoF will be the only content ever to exist now, plenty of people will still be doing the HoT map metas and world bosses and whatnot. Regular greens and blues will still be abundant.

I don’t like the idea of having to identify gear for the following reasons:

1. It will make me feel like I need to identify it in case of it being a very expensive item.
2. From what people say we need to go to heart vendors and with the trend of putting repeatable hearts in the game lately you can shove it up your jacksie.
3. This is a step backwards, many games gave up the identify system because it wasn’t fun and didn’t fulfill a purpose other than pointless busy work.
4. It adds another layer of work into enjoying the game if you want all your drops, we should be playing the game and enjoying it for what it is, not forced to go back and forth all the time to identify stuff when backs get full.

I really hope we get changes to this system as I personally don’t find it fun and engaging and as I said earlier you know where you can shove it if we have to repeat hearts on a daily basis almost at some point in the future.

Galactic.6453:

Excellent Name.9574:

Mystic or Master Kits to salvage Blue or Green gear

Yeah that’s why I said it makes no difference because you get the same basic mats either way.
Green sigils could gain to rise a bit in price because they’re worth jacks- at the moment. And it’s not like PoF will be the only content ever to exist now, plenty of people will still be doing the HoT map metas and world bosses and whatnot. Regular greens and blues will still be abundant.

If Anet planned this to solve the inventory problem, which I seriously doubt as it does not, it will go live in the entire game, not just PoF otherwise what would be the point? Not only green sigils and rune will rise, all of the materials that I mentioned will escalate. UND gear is just blue until identified.

Did the Unid’ed stuff ever drop rares/exotics that was not PoF-specific?

Because if not, that completely removes the continually mentioned “it might be a precursor/really expensive exotic”. The value of identifying will then be entirely depending on the price of the new PoF skins (impossible to know yet), and ectos.

It appears that this feature is getting a lot of flack, and for good reasons.
A-net didn’t communicated most of their new futures like this or the new barrier mechanic. So here are a few bullet points you need to know.

1. It existed in GW1! There it was just another annoying feature to make you buy and carry an identification kit on top of your salvage kit. Here however it works differently.
2. You don’t need to identify the gear to salvage it. If you click to salvage all blues and greens you’ll notice that the unidentified gear is included. You identify them only to get the skins and an occasional rare.
3. The feature exist to solve the “inventory wars” problem, where on large metas your inventory fills super fast by blues and greens, and then you have to deal with their crappy runes they drop after being salvaged. If you noticed, the unidentified gear is stack-able.
4. Yes, it’s expensive! I’m actually with you on this one! If it costed Karma, they could charge as much as they want. I’ve got tons of it. But given the quantity you get of them, it shouldn’t cost more than a silver unless rares had a higher drop rate.

future <> feature

Also, you did not make any point that hasn’t already been made in the other thread.

Kite.2510:

1. Yes, it’s expensive! I’m actually with you on this one! If it costed Karma, they could charge as much as they want. I’ve got tons of it. But given the quantity you get of them, it shouldn’t cost more than a silver unless rares had a higher drop rate.

Was focusing on other things during preview weekend so didn’t look into loot. That said if we are back to identification kits then yes ways to buy these via alternate currencies like zone currencies, karma and such would be greatly appreciated and here’s hoping that auto-salvagers have an option that says all or identified only else that would be step in an unfortunate direction.

Ferelwing.8463:

I used to just salvage on the spot and sell things to tp or put it in mats storage while running around. If I had a problem (ie sigils/runes that were worthless, then I’d see a vendor).

Ditto.

Ferelwing.8463:

It was never really a problem since I’d immediately begin the process as soon as an event was over or immediately after I opened a chest. Carrying around salvaging kits got to be frustrating so I bought the silver-matic/copper-matic and then paid to have extra shared inventory slots so that all of my chars could use them immediately. I realize that’s not an option for everyone but I still think it’s way better than the options we’ve been given. Especially since the unidentified gear comes in 1 color and you have to “guess” whether or not you’re getting rare/exotic/precursor style loot or green/blue loot.

I am 100% with you here. I paid for the shared slots, got extra bag space too, and always salvage all blues and greens on the spot — so if this ID mechanic has been introduced to save inventory space, I really don’t need that “kind new feature” (being sarcastic here) as it would only drain even more of my money/gold.

Excellent Name.9574:

…The entire mechanic is wrong, even if mat drop rate stays at 200% people will want to identify gear, and it is a loss not gain. either way something will go sky-high if people decide not to identify, exotics, rares, ectos, sigils, runes…will cost a fortune. If they decide to identify the mats will go up and who knows how high.

It’s not a loss, how can getting 16 rares from 85 drops at a cost of 1.4g to ID be a loss? That’s a straight 4g profit right there without including anything else. Who knows what the eyes of Kormir will be worth, there was 90+ of those.

Nothing is going to go sky high because both methods, IDing and then salvaging or just salvaging the unids, gives better loot than we currently get, if anything all the prices will come down significantly.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

You’re just thinking about this from the wrong end. It’s just a different system. Rares and exotics are not mixed into the bunch, they do not exist until you ID the trophies. Imagine they are a chest that has a random item inside and a better chance at getting a rare than you do from drops and that it costs you 1.68s to open them. The beauty is that if you just want materials, you can salvage them directly and get a lot more materials than you do usually, like a LOT more.

This is not how people think. People want to know what is in the bag. And if there is a chance that what is in the bag is something good, even if the chance is small, people will want to know even more. That is why gamble chests and grab bags in stores work.

The developers are counting on this very thing for BL chests and the new gamble boxes. So they obviously understand exactly how this new UnID Gear will work. So a large number of, if not most, people will want to ID the gear. New players will not have good Magic Find and so will probably not even break even from the cost of ID. So as I said the new players lose. Just what GW2 needs…

Excellent Name.9574:

Galactic.6453:

Excellent Name.9574:

Mystic or Master Kits to salvage Blue or Green gear

Yeah that’s why I said it makes no difference because you get the same basic mats either way.
Green sigils could gain to rise a bit in price because they’re worth jacks- at the moment. And it’s not like PoF will be the only content ever to exist now, plenty of people will still be doing the HoT map metas and world bosses and whatnot. Regular greens and blues will still be abundant.

If Anet planned this to solve the inventory problem, which I seriously doubt as it does not, it will go live in the entire game, not just PoF otherwise what would be the point? Not only green sigils and rune will rise, all of the materials that I mentioned will escalate. UND gear is just blue until identified.

It’s the “best of both worlds” because it solves inventory issues while out playing the game, meaning you only need to deal with your loot once per play session. Green sigils and runes are worthless atm, none of the materials will go up in cost since the supply is going to increase dramatically. Unid gear is NOTHING at all, until you id it, the loot does not exist until you get it ID’d which is essentially trading in your green unid tickets for loot.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Excellent Name.9574:

…I think You are missing a large portion of the information. Unidentified gear is not an add-on to normal loot, but rather a partial replacement of the standard loot. From my weekend approx calc, around 50% of the loot is replaced with unidentified gear. that means, roughly, You are getting 50% less rares, 50% fewer exotics, 50% fewer greens, and 50% fewer blues, unless und gear RNG loot table is different to normal drop. In essence You are losing money, either way, do the identification or don’t. You are talking about the needed Gold sink to keep the price in check, but completely ignoring the surefire outcome of the materials price hike that will come out of this. UND is no-win no-win mechanic.

Sigh. Look at this example.

You are getting 200% or more materials from salvaging the unids.

Also, if you can show me another place I can get a 20% chance for rares at a cost of 1.68s, I’ll be playing there all day.

You keep pointing to an example of 85 as though a number that small has any statistical relevance whatsoever!

Djinn.9245:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

You’re just thinking about this from the wrong end. It’s just a different system. Rares and exotics are not mixed into the bunch, they do not exist until you ID the trophies. Imagine they are a chest that has a random item inside and a better chance at getting a rare than you do from drops and that it costs you 1.68s to open them. The beauty is that if you just want materials, you can salvage them directly and get a lot more materials than you do usually, like a LOT more.

This is not how people think. People want to know what is in the bag. And if there is a chance that what is in the bag is something good, even if the chance is small, people will want to know even more. That is why gamble chests and grab bags in stores work.

The developers are counting on this very thing for BL chests and the new gamble boxes. So they obviously understand exactly how this new UnID Gear will work. So a large number of, if not most, people will want to ID the gear. New players will not have good Magic Find and so will probably not even break even from the cost of ID. So as I said the new players lose. Just what GW2 needs…

No, they will still end up with luck to increase their MF as well as comparable loot drops to just playing normally. They already have low MF so don’t get a lot of rares regardless. The 1.68s cost will be more than equalled out by material rewards, that’s how these gold sinks work, its not trying to steal anything from you, it is you exchanging some silver for more materials and skins. That’s it.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Excellent Name.9574:

Galactic.6453:

Excellent Name.9574:

Mystic or Master Kits to salvage Blue or Green gear

Yeah that’s why I said it makes no difference because you get the same basic mats either way.
Green sigils could gain to rise a bit in price because they’re worth jacks- at the moment. And it’s not like PoF will be the only content ever to exist now, plenty of people will still be doing the HoT map metas and world bosses and whatnot. Regular greens and blues will still be abundant.

If Anet planned this to solve the inventory problem, which I seriously doubt as it does not, it will go live in the entire game, not just PoF otherwise what would be the point? Not only green sigils and rune will rise, all of the materials that I mentioned will escalate. UND gear is just blue until identified.

It’s the “best of both worlds” because it solves inventory issues while out playing the game, meaning you only need to deal with your loot once per play session. Green sigils and runes are worthless atm, none of the materials will go up in cost since the supply is going to increase dramatically. Unid gear is NOTHING at all, until you id it, the loot does not exist until you get it ID’d which is essentially trading in your green unid tickets for loot.

It doesn’t matter what Unidentified Gear is because it doesn’t come from nowhere. It REPLACES gear that you would have received. Is the number of green salvageable trophies worth as much as all of the other drops I would have received before this replaced them? Including the rares and exotics? I don’t know and neither do you.

You speak as though your opinion on what will happen is fact. You don’t actually have any relevant evidence about what will happen.