Guild Wars 2

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Excellent Name.9574:

Galactic.6453:

Excellent Name.9574:

Mystic or Master Kits to salvage Blue or Green gear

Yeah that’s why I said it makes no difference because you get the same basic mats either way.
Green sigils could gain to rise a bit in price because they’re worth jacks- at the moment. And it’s not like PoF will be the only content ever to exist now, plenty of people will still be doing the HoT map metas and world bosses and whatnot. Regular greens and blues will still be abundant.

If Anet planned this to solve the inventory problem, which I seriously doubt as it does not, it will go live in the entire game, not just PoF otherwise what would be the point? Not only green sigils and rune will rise, all of the materials that I mentioned will escalate. UND gear is just blue until identified.

It’s the “best of both worlds” because it solves inventory issues while out playing the game, meaning you only need to deal with your loot once per play session. Green sigils and runes are worthless atm, none of the materials will go up in cost since the supply is going to increase dramatically. Unid gear is NOTHING at all, until you id it, the loot does not exist until you get it ID’d which is essentially trading in your green unid tickets for loot.

+money and time. Don’t forget those. And that’s what’s the crux of all this. It’s the same as before, but costs.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Djinn.9245:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

You’re just thinking about this from the wrong end. It’s just a different system. Rares and exotics are not mixed into the bunch, they do not exist until you ID the trophies. Imagine they are a chest that has a random item inside and a better chance at getting a rare than you do from drops and that it costs you 1.68s to open them. The beauty is that if you just want materials, you can salvage them directly and get a lot more materials than you do usually, like a LOT more.

This is not how people think. People want to know what is in the bag. And if there is a chance that what is in the bag is something good, even if the chance is small, people will want to know even more. That is why gamble chests and grab bags in stores work.

The developers are counting on this very thing for BL chests and the new gamble boxes. So they obviously understand exactly how this new UnID Gear will work. So a large number of, if not most, people will want to ID the gear. New players will not have good Magic Find and so will probably not even break even from the cost of ID. So as I said the new players lose. Just what GW2 needs…

No, they will still end up with luck to increase their MF as well as comparable loot drops to just playing normally.

It’s interesting that you are consistently presenting your ideas as fact. Do you work for Anet and you’re just hoping they don’t figure out that you’re answering questions? If you don’t work for Anet you actually have no idea.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

They already have low MF so don’t get a lot of rares regardless. The 1.68s cost will be more than equalled out by material rewards, that’s how these gold sinks work, its not trying to steal anything from you, it is you exchanging some silver for more materials and skins. That’s it.

Yes, they have to PAY 1.68s to get the “comparable loot drops to just playing normally”. So they ARE stealing from us if you are correct about the “comparable loot drops to just playing normally”. We have to pay $ and time, as Whitworth and others have pointed out, to get the “comparable loot drops to just playing normally”.

Tanner Blackfeather.6509:

Did the Unid’ed stuff ever drop rares/exotics that was not PoF-specific?

Because if not, that completely removes the continually mentioned “it might be a precursor/really expensive exotic”. The value of identifying will then be entirely depending on the price of the new PoF skins (impossible to know yet), and ectos.

They can drop any rares, but much more frequently the PoF unique skins.

Djinn.9245:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Excellent Name.9574:

…I think You are missing a large portion of the information. Unidentified gear is not an add-on to normal loot, but rather a partial replacement of the standard loot. From my weekend approx calc, around 50% of the loot is replaced with unidentified gear. that means, roughly, You are getting 50% less rares, 50% fewer exotics, 50% fewer greens, and 50% fewer blues, unless und gear RNG loot table is different to normal drop. In essence You are losing money, either way, do the identification or don’t. You are talking about the needed Gold sink to keep the price in check, but completely ignoring the surefire outcome of the materials price hike that will come out of this. UND is no-win no-win mechanic.

Sigh. Look at this example.

You are getting 200% or more materials from salvaging the unids.

Also, if you can show me another place I can get a 20% chance for rares at a cost of 1.68s, I’ll be playing there all day.

You keep pointing to an example of 85 as though a number that small has any statistical relevance whatsoever!

It is enough to draw somewhat accurate conclusions from, even -50%, it’s still better loot than usual. And it’s 85 of each method, so 170. What do you want, someone to farm 50,000 unids before you think it’s relevant? People are thinking ANet is stealing their loot, well it’s just absurd. Do any of you actually think for 1 second that ANet wants to make getting loot more difficult? Loot in this game is ridiculous, you get it for doing anything! This is yet another way to get even more.

Sure, it’s a gold sink but it is completely needed and is also more than making up for that with material rewards.

This is like trying to explain to flat earthers how they have got it all wrong. Even when you present evidence to the contrary, they just invalidate it because ’It’s part of the conspiracy!’ or calling it faked.

this is another reason why I will not be buying pof at all when it comes out next month !!. did it in guild wars which took up bag slots cost become a gold sink buying kits . never got any expensive exotic or rares at all from doing it . all you ever got was crafting mats at best . and maybe made a few copper from it at the very best . same also goes for MF in guild wars the only way you got MF in that game was spending silver and gold to buy lock picks and keys . and open chests till you opened at least a 1000 chests then you might get a gold weapon from time to time till you got past that mark . making that another gold sink in that game.

boil it all down this will become another gold sink and taken up slot space for new players. and other players too . so no thanks to that like I said another reasons why to not buy the new pack at all

Tanner Blackfeather.6509:

Did the Unid’ed stuff ever drop rares/exotics that was not PoF-specific?

Because if not, that completely removes the continually mentioned “it might be a precursor/really expensive exotic”. The value of identifying will then be entirely depending on the price of the new PoF skins (impossible to know yet), and ectos.

Since Unidentified Gear REPLACES some of the drops we would have received anyway, if the only rares/exotics we receive from UnID are PoF-specific, then this system has potentially nerfed our rewards in yet another way!

Djinn.9245:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Djinn.9245:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

You’re just thinking about this from the wrong end. It’s just a different system. Rares and exotics are not mixed into the bunch, they do not exist until you ID the trophies. Imagine they are a chest that has a random item inside and a better chance at getting a rare than you do from drops and that it costs you 1.68s to open them. The beauty is that if you just want materials, you can salvage them directly and get a lot more materials than you do usually, like a LOT more.

This is not how people think. People want to know what is in the bag. And if there is a chance that what is in the bag is something good, even if the chance is small, people will want to know even more. That is why gamble chests and grab bags in stores work.

The developers are counting on this very thing for BL chests and the new gamble boxes. So they obviously understand exactly how this new UnID Gear will work. So a large number of, if not most, people will want to ID the gear. New players will not have good Magic Find and so will probably not even break even from the cost of ID. So as I said the new players lose. Just what GW2 needs…

No, they will still end up with luck to increase their MF as well as comparable loot drops to just playing normally.

It’s interesting that you are consistently presenting your ideas as fact. Do you work for Anet and you’re just hoping they don’t figure out that you’re answering questions? If you don’t work for Anet you actually have no idea.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

They already have low MF so don’t get a lot of rares regardless. The 1.68s cost will be more than equalled out by material rewards, that’s how these gold sinks work, its not trying to steal anything from you, it is you exchanging some silver for more materials and skins. That’s it.

Yes, they have to PAY 1.68s to get the “comparable loot drops to just playing normally”. So they ARE stealing from us if you are correct about the “comparable loot drops to just playing normally”. We have to pay $ and time, as Whitworth and others have pointed out, to get the “comparable loot drops to just playing normally”.

I meant comparable drops and value after you take out the cost to ID. They want to remove gold from the economy, not materials.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Djinn.9245:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Djinn.9245:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

You’re just thinking about this from the wrong end. It’s just a different system. Rares and exotics are not mixed into the bunch, they do not exist until you ID the trophies. Imagine they are a chest that has a random item inside and a better chance at getting a rare than you do from drops and that it costs you 1.68s to open them. The beauty is that if you just want materials, you can salvage them directly and get a lot more materials than you do usually, like a LOT more.

This is not how people think. People want to know what is in the bag. And if there is a chance that what is in the bag is something good, even if the chance is small, people will want to know even more. That is why gamble chests and grab bags in stores work.

The developers are counting on this very thing for BL chests and the new gamble boxes. So they obviously understand exactly how this new UnID Gear will work. So a large number of, if not most, people will want to ID the gear. New players will not have good Magic Find and so will probably not even break even from the cost of ID. So as I said the new players lose. Just what GW2 needs…

No, they will still end up with luck to increase their MF as well as comparable loot drops to just playing normally.

It’s interesting that you are consistently presenting your ideas as fact. Do you work for Anet and you’re just hoping they don’t figure out that you’re answering questions? If you don’t work for Anet you actually have no idea.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

They already have low MF so don’t get a lot of rares regardless. The 1.68s cost will be more than equalled out by material rewards, that’s how these gold sinks work, its not trying to steal anything from you, it is you exchanging some silver for more materials and skins. That’s it.

Yes, they have to PAY 1.68s to get the “comparable loot drops to just playing normally”. So they ARE stealing from us if you are correct about the “comparable loot drops to just playing normally”. We have to pay $ and time, as Whitworth and others have pointed out, to get the “comparable loot drops to just playing normally”.

I meant comparable drops and value after you take out the cost to ID. They want to remove gold from the economy, not materials.

First, you don’t actually know. Second, this will not be true for people who don’t have good Magic Find which is most of the players.

Djinn.9245:

…this will not be true for people who don’t have good Magic Find which is most of the players.

In which case they can salvage the unid directly for more materials than they would get from regular drops or sell them on the TP to those with high MF to make more gold profit. Where’s the issue?

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Djinn.9245:

…this will not be true for people who don’t have good Magic Find which is most of the players.

In which case they can salvage the unid directly for more materials than they would get from regular drops or sell them on the TP to those with high MF to make more gold profit. Where’s the issue?

The issue is that You are using drop and salvage rates from the demo, which are significantly higher than in the rest of Tyria at face value.

Your information tells us that Rares will now occupy 20% of the drops instead of less than 3% and less than 1% for exotics, You are also counting that he salvage rate will differ to that of Tyria at double the rate. This would completely break the game and the economy which has been pretty stable for over a year now.

Excellent Name.9574:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Djinn.9245:

…this will not be true for people who don’t have good Magic Find which is most of the players.

In which case they can salvage the unid directly for more materials than they would get from regular drops or sell them on the TP to those with high MF to make more gold profit. Where’s the issue?

The issue is that You are using drop and salvage rates from the demo, which are significantly higher than in the rest of Tyria at face value.

Your information tells us that Rares will now occupy 20% of the drops instead of less than 3% and less than 1% for exotics, You are also counting that he salvage rate will differ to that of Tyria at double the rate. This would completely break the game and the economy which has been pretty stable for over a year now.

And that’s just from a sample of 85 which is nothing. Could be a lucky streak for all we know. Yet he keeps pointing to it as though it is statistically relevant.

Djinn.9245:

usnedward.9023:

So……. let me get this straight…. MANY people over the years have complained about loot filling up their bags and there has to be another way. In comes the copper and silver salvaging gizmos. Then the complaints went to too many runes and stuff so still have to make a pit stop to sell off those and many came here and still come here to post these random complaints or dislikes or what have you.

NOW you get stacking unidentified gear that I assume stack to 250 and now you have:
1. Option to salvage
2. Option to have discover the gear then salvage.

So ANET once again seems to honor those who have the issues and I see no harm done in it. If you salvage and it appears you risk salvaging a possible exotic or precursor….. um…your risk you take.

Personally I see it as a good thing of saving bag space during random runs through the forests and in my downtime I can go discover and then salvage what I like.

People will just kitten anymore about anything….

1. Are you assuming these are all the same people complaining? (why?)

2. Customer feedback is important. Maybe you’ve seen one of the thousands of requests from businesses to give feedback on websites, receipts, or the separate pieces of paper sometimes given with a purchase.

Been away so late response.

Customer feedback IS important and I believe this is why the change because of those complaints or suggestions. Doesn’t mean every one will agree. I know many who think it is a good idea and those that don’t want it. I prefer my 120 slots not be filled during runs and then I have salvage, sell off junk and such from salvage and I believe this is more to the good versus the bad.

I am not assuming who is complaining but have seen it for 3+ years of a way not to fill bags.

Excellent Name.9574:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Djinn.9245:

…this will not be true for people who don’t have good Magic Find which is most of the players.

In which case they can salvage the unid directly for more materials than they would get from regular drops or sell them on the TP to those with high MF to make more gold profit. Where’s the issue?

The issue is that You are using drop and salvage rates from the demo, which are significantly higher than in the rest of Tyria at face value.

Your information tells us that Rares will now occupy 20% of the drops instead of less than 3% and less than 1% for exotics, You are also counting that he salvage rate will differ to that of Tyria at double the rate. This would completely break the game and the economy which has been pretty stable for over a year now.

Man, do you actually believe they intentionally pumped up the drop rate for the demo for whatever purpose and when PoF launches, they will have lowered it? Like, not because the amount of mats are too much currently (which they may be, it’s a bloody lot) but because it was just a ploy to get ppl to buy it? Really?

The economy is stable, but that doesn’t make it good. New players cannot get into crafting because of the cost of low tier materials, this will help dramatically with that. All those low tier mats are crazy expensive atm.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Excellent Name.9574:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Djinn.9245:

…this will not be true for people who don’t have good Magic Find which is most of the players.

In which case they can salvage the unid directly for more materials than they would get from regular drops or sell them on the TP to those with high MF to make more gold profit. Where’s the issue?

The issue is that You are using drop and salvage rates from the demo, which are significantly higher than in the rest of Tyria at face value.

Your information tells us that Rares will now occupy 20% of the drops instead of less than 3% and less than 1% for exotics, You are also counting that he salvage rate will differ to that of Tyria at double the rate. This would completely break the game and the economy which has been pretty stable for over a year now.

Man, do you actually believe they intentionally pumped up the drop rate for the demo for whatever purpose and when PoF launches, they will have lowered it? Like, not because the amount of mats are too much currently (which they may be, it’s a bloody lot) but because it was just a ploy to get ppl to buy it? Really?

The economy is stable, but that doesn’t make it good. New players cannot get into crafting because of the cost of low tier materials, this will help dramatically with that. All those low tier mats are crazy expensive atm.

This is completely false. I never bought a piece of material as it wasn’t needed off of TP while I was leveling up my crafting while completing the game. Drop rate of low tier materials never changed after the loot table has been differentiated for higher level characters on lower level maps and that happened in 2013. The prices on TP are relatively high not because of drop rate but because of the lack of new players and freshly started characters.

Do You even realize what chaos would ensue if the loot table and drop rate in PoF were left that high in the final release? You can’t see further than Your own interest in this case.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Djinn.9245:

…this will not be true for people who don’t have good Magic Find which is most of the players.

In which case they can salvage the unid directly for more materials than they would get from regular drops or sell them on the TP to those with high MF to make more gold profit. Where’s the issue?

As far as I can tell, salvaging unidentifieds gives no luck essences, so low magic find people will stay in the low magic find ghetto longer because they’re discouraged by the system to pick the option that will increase their magic find.

Excellent Name.9574:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Excellent Name.9574:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Djinn.9245:

…this will not be true for people who don’t have good Magic Find which is most of the players.

In which case they can salvage the unid directly for more materials than they would get from regular drops or sell them on the TP to those with high MF to make more gold profit. Where’s the issue?

The issue is that You are using drop and salvage rates from the demo, which are significantly higher than in the rest of Tyria at face value.

Your information tells us that Rares will now occupy 20% of the drops instead of less than 3% and less than 1% for exotics, You are also counting that he salvage rate will differ to that of Tyria at double the rate. This would completely break the game and the economy which has been pretty stable for over a year now.

Man, do you actually believe they intentionally pumped up the drop rate for the demo for whatever purpose and when PoF launches, they will have lowered it? Like, not because the amount of mats are too much currently (which they may be, it’s a bloody lot) but because it was just a ploy to get ppl to buy it? Really?

The economy is stable, but that doesn’t make it good. New players cannot get into crafting because of the cost of low tier materials, this will help dramatically with that. All those low tier mats are crazy expensive atm.

This is completely false. I never bought a piece of material as it wasn’t needed off of TP while I was leveling up my crafting while completing the game. Drop rate of low tier materials never changed after the loot table has been differentiated for higher level characters on lower level maps and that happened in 2013. The prices on TP are relatively high not because of drop rate but because of the lack of new players and freshly started characters.

Do You even realize what chaos would ensue if the loot table and drop rate in PoF were left that high in the final release? You can’t see further than Your own interest in this case.

Please describe this “chaos”. All I see is lower cost materials so people can craft ascended and other gear more easily. Do you even realise that the supply of low tier materials is far lower than high tier due to the limited amount of people playing at low levels or in low level areas, or opening bags on low level characters? This is another benefit, no need to have a lvl 35 or 53 character because you can get all tiers on your level 80 char.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Djinn.9245:

…this will not be true for people who don’t have good Magic Find which is most of the players.

In which case they can salvage the unid directly for more materials than they would get from regular drops or sell them on the TP to those with high MF to make more gold profit. Where’s the issue?

As far as I can tell, salvaging unidentifieds gives no luck essences, so low magic find people will stay in the low magic find ghetto longer because they’re discouraged by the system to pick the option that will increase their magic find.

You are right, salvaging unid does not provide luck. But that is not a negative either, they will still proft more than usual since they will be able to salvage more materials than usual or sell the unids for more gold than usual, if they so choose they can ID the items, get the luck and comparable (after ID cost) loot.

Edit: as well as that, they can sell the unid trophies for more than blue/green items cost, buy those and salvage for luck and loot.

Djinn.9245:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Excellent Name.9574:

Galactic.6453:

Excellent Name.9574:

Mystic or Master Kits to salvage Blue or Green gear

Yeah that’s why I said it makes no difference because you get the same basic mats either way.
Green sigils could gain to rise a bit in price because they’re worth jacks- at the moment. And it’s not like PoF will be the only content ever to exist now, plenty of people will still be doing the HoT map metas and world bosses and whatnot. Regular greens and blues will still be abundant.

If Anet planned this to solve the inventory problem, which I seriously doubt as it does not, it will go live in the entire game, not just PoF otherwise what would be the point? Not only green sigils and rune will rise, all of the materials that I mentioned will escalate. UND gear is just blue until identified.

It’s the “best of both worlds” because it solves inventory issues while out playing the game, meaning you only need to deal with your loot once per play session. Green sigils and runes are worthless atm, none of the materials will go up in cost since the supply is going to increase dramatically. Unid gear is NOTHING at all, until you id it, the loot does not exist until you get it ID’d which is essentially trading in your green unid tickets for loot.

It doesn’t matter what Unidentified Gear is because it doesn’t come from nowhere. It REPLACES gear that you would have received. Is the number of green salvageable trophies worth as much as all of the other drops I would have received before this replaced them? Including the rares and exotics? I don’t know and neither do you.

You speak as though your opinion on what will happen is fact. You don’t actually have any relevant evidence about what will happen.

Honest questions here,

Do we know for a fact that unid gear is replacing anything as opposed to being an addition?

Do we know that unid gear, if it is replacing something, isnt replacing a blue or green drop that couldnt have been salvaged for any more than the unid can? In fact, since green gear can not produce ectos, precursors, etc do we know for a fact that unid gear isnt actually replacing something of potentially significantly lower value?

Ashen.2907:

Djinn.9245:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Excellent Name.9574:

Galactic.6453:

Excellent Name.9574:

Mystic or Master Kits to salvage Blue or Green gear

Yeah that’s why I said it makes no difference because you get the same basic mats either way.
Green sigils could gain to rise a bit in price because they’re worth jacks- at the moment. And it’s not like PoF will be the only content ever to exist now, plenty of people will still be doing the HoT map metas and world bosses and whatnot. Regular greens and blues will still be abundant.

If Anet planned this to solve the inventory problem, which I seriously doubt as it does not, it will go live in the entire game, not just PoF otherwise what would be the point? Not only green sigils and rune will rise, all of the materials that I mentioned will escalate. UND gear is just blue until identified.

It’s the “best of both worlds” because it solves inventory issues while out playing the game, meaning you only need to deal with your loot once per play session. Green sigils and runes are worthless atm, none of the materials will go up in cost since the supply is going to increase dramatically. Unid gear is NOTHING at all, until you id it, the loot does not exist until you get it ID’d which is essentially trading in your green unid tickets for loot.

It doesn’t matter what Unidentified Gear is because it doesn’t come from nowhere. It REPLACES gear that you would have received. Is the number of green salvageable trophies worth as much as all of the other drops I would have received before this replaced them? Including the rares and exotics? I don’t know and neither do you.

You speak as though your opinion on what will happen is fact. You don’t actually have any relevant evidence about what will happen.

Honest questions here,

Do we know for a fact that unid gear is replacing anything as opposed to being an addition?

Do we know that unid gear, if it is replacing something, isnt replacing a blue or green drop that couldnt have been salvaged for any more than the unid can? In fact, since green gear can not produce ectos, precursors, etc do we know for a fact that unid gear isnt actually replacing something of potentially significantly lower value?

We know that you still get other drops while also getting the unid. It may be replacing some drops or it may be in addition. I believe it is replacing some.

The unid drops are not replacing any tier of gear. They are trophies that you pay a silver price to turn into other loot that has a better chance of being rare. When you salvage the unid gear, you get a lot more materials than you would by salvaging blue or green gear and you don’t get the sigil/runes from them. I think the range is up to 20 of a random material, 18 iron has come from them several times and that is 1g value from a single unid. You are right that unid is usually replacing someting of lower value.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Ashen.2907:

Djinn.9245:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Excellent Name.9574:

Galactic.6453:

Excellent Name.9574:

Mystic or Master Kits to salvage Blue or Green gear

Yeah that’s why I said it makes no difference because you get the same basic mats either way.
Green sigils could gain to rise a bit in price because they’re worth jacks- at the moment. And it’s not like PoF will be the only content ever to exist now, plenty of people will still be doing the HoT map metas and world bosses and whatnot. Regular greens and blues will still be abundant.

If Anet planned this to solve the inventory problem, which I seriously doubt as it does not, it will go live in the entire game, not just PoF otherwise what would be the point? Not only green sigils and rune will rise, all of the materials that I mentioned will escalate. UND gear is just blue until identified.

It’s the “best of both worlds” because it solves inventory issues while out playing the game, meaning you only need to deal with your loot once per play session. Green sigils and runes are worthless atm, none of the materials will go up in cost since the supply is going to increase dramatically. Unid gear is NOTHING at all, until you id it, the loot does not exist until you get it ID’d which is essentially trading in your green unid tickets for loot.

It doesn’t matter what Unidentified Gear is because it doesn’t come from nowhere. It REPLACES gear that you would have received. Is the number of green salvageable trophies worth as much as all of the other drops I would have received before this replaced them? Including the rares and exotics? I don’t know and neither do you.

You speak as though your opinion on what will happen is fact. You don’t actually have any relevant evidence about what will happen.

Honest questions here,

Do we know for a fact that unid gear is replacing anything as opposed to being an addition?

Do we know that unid gear, if it is replacing something, isnt replacing a blue or green drop that couldnt have been salvaged for any more than the unid can? In fact, since green gear can not produce ectos, precursors, etc do we know for a fact that unid gear isnt actually replacing something of potentially significantly lower value?

We know that you still get other drops while also getting the unid. It may be replacing some drops or it may be in addition. I believe it is replacing some.

The unid drops are not replacing any tier of gear. They are trophies that you pay a silver price to turn into other loot that has a better chance of being rare. When you salvage the unid gear, you get a lot more materials than you would by salvaging blue or green gear and you don’t get the sigil/runes from them. I think the range is up to 20 of a random material, 18 iron has come from them several times and that is 1g value from a single unid. You are right that unid is usually replacing someting of lower value.

My questions werent meant to be leading or taken as an statement. I really dont know, but want to. I did not spend much time in the demo and so had little experience of the drops.

Still, it seems possible that if the total number of drops remain the same, an unid drop means that drop slot didnt go to something else, hence the term replaced.

To me, if the unid drop is replacing something else (a roll of 9999 on the table instead of 9998), the real question is what did it replace? Replacing a piece of blue or green gear with something that is at minimum worth as much as said piece of gear and potentially more is in the players’ favor. Replacing a rare or exotic with something with a minimum worth significanly lower may not be.

Ashantara.8731:

future <> feature

Also, you did not make any point that hasn’t already been made in the other thread.

Fixed.

Also, the reason I made this one is because even after reading the other thread, it appears that people haven’t realized yet the details and reason for it.
You’ll see that many people whine about it “not fitting into GW2”, or how “whatever money the make selling the mats would be lost in the identification fees”…

That’s why I believe this should had been communicated better before attempting to bring players in. There are existing expectations upon encountering the word “unidentified gear”, especially in a game whose prevews installment was guilty of the same sin and you can easily come to conclusions before even taking a look.

Same thing goes for the new barrier mechanic. The only clue I had was from footage from the youtubers who had previewed it before (and happened to notice it them selfs) , and some interview WP had with A-net at some point.

Ferelwing.8463:

The new mechanic doesn’t feel like it offers meaningful choices, if you choose to sell the items to vendor sight unseen or you salvage the items you will always wonder if perhaps there was a rare/exotic/precusor in that group. If you choose not to and all you get are greens and blue’s then you will feel like you wasted money.

NONE of those are good answers.

Welcome to gambling.

Ferelwing.8463:

I don’t like to gamble, I like to plan and make informed decisions.

Yeah, neither do I. Which is why we’re going to wait for the gamblers with lots of money to stack 20k UNID’s, open them, tell you the drop rates, and you can be more informed as to whether Identifying or Salvaging is a more intelligent decision.
Until then, sell, salvage, or stock them up.

A lot of what I see right now is people bemoaning the fact that they’ll now have to be responsible about their actions. If you get an UNID, it’s a green. It dropped from the green loot table. Paying to ID is just paying to reroll the loot table. Much like how paying 1.5g lets you reroll for Pearls in Abaddon’s Reliquary. No one stole a yellow from you. No one snatched a precursor either. In the same way that you’re not going to play a game mode that you don’t like, don’t take a gamble that you don’t enjoy.

Ashen.2907:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Ashen.2907:

Djinn.9245:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Excellent Name.9574:

Galactic.6453:

Excellent Name.9574:

Mystic or Master Kits to salvage Blue or Green gear

Yeah that’s why I said it makes no difference because you get the same basic mats either way.
Green sigils could gain to rise a bit in price because they’re worth jacks- at the moment. And it’s not like PoF will be the only content ever to exist now, plenty of people will still be doing the HoT map metas and world bosses and whatnot. Regular greens and blues will still be abundant.

If Anet planned this to solve the inventory problem, which I seriously doubt as it does not, it will go live in the entire game, not just PoF otherwise what would be the point? Not only green sigils and rune will rise, all of the materials that I mentioned will escalate. UND gear is just blue until identified.

It’s the “best of both worlds” because it solves inventory issues while out playing the game, meaning you only need to deal with your loot once per play session. Green sigils and runes are worthless atm, none of the materials will go up in cost since the supply is going to increase dramatically. Unid gear is NOTHING at all, until you id it, the loot does not exist until you get it ID’d which is essentially trading in your green unid tickets for loot.

It doesn’t matter what Unidentified Gear is because it doesn’t come from nowhere. It REPLACES gear that you would have received. Is the number of green salvageable trophies worth as much as all of the other drops I would have received before this replaced them? Including the rares and exotics? I don’t know and neither do you.

You speak as though your opinion on what will happen is fact. You don’t actually have any relevant evidence about what will happen.

Honest questions here,

Do we know for a fact that unid gear is replacing anything as opposed to being an addition?

Do we know that unid gear, if it is replacing something, isnt replacing a blue or green drop that couldnt have been salvaged for any more than the unid can? In fact, since green gear can not produce ectos, precursors, etc do we know for a fact that unid gear isnt actually replacing something of potentially significantly lower value?

We know that you still get other drops while also getting the unid. It may be replacing some drops or it may be in addition. I believe it is replacing some.

The unid drops are not replacing any tier of gear. They are trophies that you pay a silver price to turn into other loot that has a better chance of being rare. When you salvage the unid gear, you get a lot more materials than you would by salvaging blue or green gear and you don’t get the sigil/runes from them. I think the range is up to 20 of a random material, 18 iron has come from them several times and that is 1g value from a single unid. You are right that unid is usually replacing someting of lower value.

My questions werent meant to be leading or taken as an statement. I really dont know, but want to. I did not spend much time in the demo and so had little experience of the drops.

Still, it seems possible that if the total number of drops remain the same, an unid drop means that drop slot didnt go to something else, hence the term replaced.

To me, if the unid drop is replacing something else (a roll of 9999 on the table instead of 9998), the real question is what did it replace? Replacing a piece of blue or green gear with something that is at minimum worth as much as said piece of gear and potentially more is in the players’ favor. Replacing a rare or exotic with something with a minimum worth significanly lower may not be.

Look at it this way. The chances of gettting rare or exotic drops from mob loot is very low. Mostly it is blue/green. If the unid is replacing drops from mob loot, then from the data we have currently from several sources of people who have tested this, then we are far better off with the unid. On average, we will be far better off. It will cost us come gold to be better off, but we will still be better off. Gold is removed from the economy and the supply of all materials is increased, Magic Find is given value, inventory management is easier, new players can earn increased gold or materials, veterans can earn even more ectos and gold. This is a Win-Win for everyone.

Djinn.9245:

“comparable loot drops to just playing normally”. So they ARE stealing from us if you are correct about the “comparable loot drops to just playing normally”

Why do you presume that Unid gear is worthless unless identified? Everything we know so far points to it being worth more in gold as a regular salvage material. Even if the 85 is a statistical irrelevance it is the only data we have on the matter right now and thinking it’s significantly wrong is a pointless assumption to make.

Greens and blues are worthless as actual gear and they just stopped pretending it isn’t and just consolidated them all together into one item and added a sink for it to gamble for rares (Which is exactly what we have but better because you don’t have a major risk of loss). I’m working off the presumption that rares and exos drop regularly regardless, as said in the thread linked before, with a few unique exotics ones being locked behind the identification, which lets admit it, they would have locked behind something else regardless.

Galactic.6453:

Djinn.9245:

“comparable loot drops to just playing normally”. So they ARE stealing from us if you are correct about the “comparable loot drops to just playing normally”

Why do you presume that Unid gear is worthless unless identified? Everything we know so far points to it being worth more in gold as a regular salvage material. Even if the 85 is a statistical irrelevance it is the only data we have on the matter right now and thinking it’s significantly wrong is a pointless assumption to make.

Greens and blues are worthless as actual gear and they just stopped pretending it isn’t and just consolidated them all together into one item and added a sink for it to gamble for rares (Which is exactly what we have but better because you don’t have a major risk of loss). I’m working off the presumption that rares and exos drop regularly regardless, as said in the thread linked before, with a few unique exotics ones being locked behind the identification, which lets admit it, they would have locked behind something else regardless.

It’s not actually the only data available, it’s just the only data presented in this post.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

It’s not actually the only data available, it’s just the only data presented in this post.

Well I’m not stopping anyone if they can post any more data. I’m just going off my own experience and what others have linked me.

Ashen.2907:

Djinn.9245:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Excellent Name.9574:

Galactic.6453:

Excellent Name.9574:

Mystic or Master Kits to salvage Blue or Green gear

Yeah that’s why I said it makes no difference because you get the same basic mats either way.
Green sigils could gain to rise a bit in price because they’re worth jacks- at the moment. And it’s not like PoF will be the only content ever to exist now, plenty of people will still be doing the HoT map metas and world bosses and whatnot. Regular greens and blues will still be abundant.

If Anet planned this to solve the inventory problem, which I seriously doubt as it does not, it will go live in the entire game, not just PoF otherwise what would be the point? Not only green sigils and rune will rise, all of the materials that I mentioned will escalate. UND gear is just blue until identified.

It’s the “best of both worlds” because it solves inventory issues while out playing the game, meaning you only need to deal with your loot once per play session. Green sigils and runes are worthless atm, none of the materials will go up in cost since the supply is going to increase dramatically. Unid gear is NOTHING at all, until you id it, the loot does not exist until you get it ID’d which is essentially trading in your green unid tickets for loot.

It doesn’t matter what Unidentified Gear is because it doesn’t come from nowhere. It REPLACES gear that you would have received. Is the number of green salvageable trophies worth as much as all of the other drops I would have received before this replaced them? Including the rares and exotics? I don’t know and neither do you.

You speak as though your opinion on what will happen is fact. You don’t actually have any relevant evidence about what will happen.

Honest questions here,

Do we know for a fact that unid gear is replacing anything as opposed to being an addition?

Do we know that unid gear, if it is replacing something, isnt replacing a blue or green drop that couldnt have been salvaged for any more than the unid can? In fact, since green gear can not produce ectos, precursors, etc do we know for a fact that unid gear isnt actually replacing something of potentially significantly lower value?

If you read my post that you are answering, these are the questions I’m asking. Heimskarl posts as though he knows the answers. No one does. What I do know is that unless I want to simply salvage a container without knowing what is in it, Identifying what is in it will cost quite a bit of $ and also my time to complete a Heart first. These known facts alone cause me to not like this new system.

Galactic.6453:

Djinn.9245:

“comparable loot drops to just playing normally”. So they ARE stealing from us if you are correct about the “comparable loot drops to just playing normally”

Greens and blues are worthless as actual gear and they just stopped pretending it isn’t and just consolidated them all together into one item

No they didn’t. Greens and blues still drop at least equal in number to UnID gear according to the posts I’ve read.

Did I miss it, or is Anet not making any comments about this concern? I feel like their silence is just adding fuel to the fire and may ultimately reduce sales while folks like me wait to see what the end results are before deciding whether or not to buy.

Ashen.2907:

Honest questions here,

Do we know for a fact that unid gear is replacing anything as opposed to being an addition?

I wasn’t paying close attention during the demo, but it does drop in event rewards/bonuses (where normal items drop in HoT), so it does replace some. Beyond that, it’s almost certainly replacement, for one simple reason: giving us 100% of the loot from core/HoT PLUS unids would lead to serious inflation. That would increase drops to 150-200% of pre-PoF levels, based on the demo.

Ashen.2907:

Do we know that unid gear, if it is replacing something, isnt replacing a blue or green drop that couldnt have been salvaged for any more than the unid can? In fact, since green gear can not produce ectos, precursors, etc do we know for a fact that unid gear isnt actually replacing something of potentially significantly lower value?

We do not know how unids affect the existing drop tables.

Daniel.4763:

Did I miss it, or is Anet not making any comments about this concern? I feel like their silence is just adding fuel to the fire and may ultimately reduce sales while folks like me wait to see what the end results are before deciding whether or not to buy.

No, I have not heard of any comment by Anet about Unidentified Gear. I don’t expect them to give us numbers, but I think it would be good if they gave some kind of general idea of what Unidentified Gear replaced so we had a better idea of the PoF reward situation.

None of this actually defends identification from the main criticisms of the other thread. Largely the arguments are around:
1) It’s too expensive (which you agree with).
2) Players don’t want to do a heart just to deal with loot.
3) Players dislike choosing between getting rares (but also the same inventory problems as before) and salvaging unids (and losing out on ectos).

Ashen.2907:

Do we know for a fact that unid gear is replacing anything as opposed to being an addition?

I got one as an event reward, and got nothing else, so yes, unless that was a bug or glitch.

Ashen.2907:

Do we know that unid gear, if it is replacing something, isnt replacing a blue or green drop that couldnt have been salvaged for any more than the unid can? In fact, since green gear can not produce ectos, precursors, etc do we know for a fact that unid gear isnt actually replacing something of potentially significantly lower value?

If an UNID’d replaces a loot bag, and if loot bags can drop higher tier gear (one can sometimes get a rare or exotic from a loot bag), then there is a potential that UNID’d loot replaced a chance at a higher tier item with a chance at a higher tier item with added inconvenience and cost.

As to single item drops (as opposed to bags), if ANet loot tables roll for rarity first, then for the actual drop and if UNID’d items are simply another option once green rarity has been determined, then a single UNID’d item is a much better drop than a single green item if one chooses to salvage. If one chooses to identify, we’re back in the realm of gambling, because the time and expenditure may result in that single green.

However, if UNID’d is rolled for as its own rarity rather than as an option under green rarity, then space had to be made on the rarity drop table for that option, which reduced the chance for other options. If that’s the case, it will depend on whether all other chances were reduced, or whether the reduction was done selectively, and of course which other option was reduced to make space.

Of course, If the tables do not use successive rolls (e.g., rarity first), then any change to a single massive table is going to impact other possibilities, and the impact will be determined by just how much weight is assigned to the new option.

tl:dr? We don’t know how ANet changed the loot tables, only that they did.

If you are making this thread to help confused people, IMO it is important to clarify what is the cost for salvaging and what is the cost for identifying.

inb4 you salvaged a prec… or a skin that sells for 100g+

yeah this system just put More RNG in an allready RNG infested Game and it even asks us to pay for it in silver ? HELL NO…..

Anet’s silence on the matter is par for the course when they make a controversial change. They introduce and idea and how it’s implemented, and then see how the reaction is. Things are iterated on internally and then discussed, internally. Sometimes that internal discussion is tested on internal testers and semi-external testers who could not be described as “public”.

The weekend playtest demo was a public reveal to a system in this process. Give them feedback on that system and leave the guessing and speculation out.

My feedback: I like the system as a whole except that you cannot see rarity differences for rare and exotic gear. Splitting those out would do miles for this system. As a player I do not like having to gamble to find rares that I was getting from the previous system. If the intention was to add a new gold sink I do not think this was the way to do it. It adds stress (in that the player feels worse about a game system ie has less fun) to the game and only adds small amounts of QoL. Splitting out the rarities stops that stress and allows for the player to identify (and use the gold sink) for rares and exotics and salvage or sell the rest.

As a player I would be far more likely to sell the unidentified blues and greens on the TP to let others gamble if they want.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Ferelwing.8463:

…snip…

You’re just thinking about this from the wrong end. It’s just a different system. Rares and exotics are not mixed into the bunch, they do not exist until you ID the trophies that you get as a drop. Imagine they are a chest that has a random item inside and a better chance at getting a rare than you do from drops and that it costs you 1.68s to open them. The beauty is that if you just want materials, you can salvage them directly and get a lot more materials than you do usually, like a LOT more.

Yes, it’s a gold sink, which is required.

If you like keeping your materials for crafting, this is going to be a lot better system as you well get a lot more materials by salvaging the unid.

The RNG happens with your knowledge here too, and you have a far better chance at rares, even with low MF when you ID these unid trophies.’

It absolutely is a “best of both worlds” because now you can make even more materials from salvage, or more gold than previously from selling the unid or salvage them for more rares than you would have gotten from drops too.

You can’t really fix inflation, you can only slow it, this will help somewhat.

It is a call-back to GW1 where people made lots of money selling unid items and others liked them because they could get them cheaper, get decent skins and sometimes make bank with good upgrades. I think however they should have just called them something else so people who don’t understand how they work wouldn’t think they are missing out on anything.

Look at this example.

If I wanted to play Guild Wars 1 I would be. I looked up both games and game mechanics before I chose and bought this game and I actually read all the information out there to determine whether or not I would be interested in playing this game. I did not like many of the Guild Wars 1 mechanics. The id system was something that was mentioned, I can’t think of a single LAN RPG that requires you to pay to identify your items. It was implemented in Diablo 3 but that wasn’t really a LAN based RPG, I think there were some unidentified loot items in Diablo II had Dekkard Cain who id’d items for free (you did have to tp back to town but you got a free ID). Torchlight II didn’t really have that many that required ID (all rares required ID the rest of the “trash” tier stuff didn’t need to ID’d at all and you could just sell to vendor). Only rares (yellows) required ID and they were from id scrolls that dropped (you could buy the scrolls from vendors but the price point wasn’t a pain point nor did it feel punishing since the gold generation in the game was pretty high).

If this involved me spending karma we wouldn’t be having this conversation since Karma is something I have a glut of and is an easily renewable source. If it involved using karma then I would be more than ok with the idea since if I need to id things I already have to a do a heart and it feels “fair”.

The information gathered and the maths done showed that this “new callback mechanic” is a lose/lose situation. My drops were not “high enough” for it to be worth it and while I am not at the top of the luck department I have a high luck value. Reality also argues with your statement that this will fix the TP. This will not do all the “promised” things that you’re claiming as the HoT and Central Tyria zones will still exist as is. That means that these other maps (who have a LOT of players who will probably not buy the expac) will still be on those maps and the TP will still be the same. I already pre-ordered but there’s a part of me that isn’t sure that I should have, I am still holding out that this mechanic isn’t going to be implemented. I have 4 other family members who I have yet to purchase the expac for…. Originally I was going to wait till the first day of school to surprise them but now I’m not sure this is such a good idea. I already purchased 9 copies of HoT previously for family members and the money spent on the game already might not justify purchasing the next expansion if there is going to be a mechanic that makes them refuse to play. I already have enough trouble getting them to play currently because they lack the gold to do very much and earning it “is grindy”. While for you that might not be a big deal, for me, I purchased this game to try to play with my family and have my kids friends play as an added bonus. The lack of gold and now having to spend gold to possibly get something cool (but most likely get something worthless and completely lose out on the deal) will change their minds about playing again. So no, for me this is NOT something “fun” and “exciting” and I doubt very seriously it will do anything more than cause more hassle and make less people want to play. As it is, the more I think about it the more annoyed I get and the less excited I am to play.

Like I said, I’m a “new” player, I started last year. I worked steadily and have been slowly but surely gaining levels doing map completions and getting achievements but that doesn’t mean that I’ve gotten a lot of money along the way since that wasn’t usually my goal (my goal has been to make things, go places and complete interesting content, but also gather as many things for collections as possible because they’re fun for me. Spending TONS to “maybe” get something for a collection is NOT a choice it’s a money sink and unfair to those who are just getting started out.)

MokahTGS.7850:

Anet’s silence on the matter is par for the course when they make a controversial change. They introduce and idea and how it’s implemented, and then see how the reaction is. Things are iterated on internally and then discussed, internally. Sometimes that internal discussion is tested on internal testers and semi-external testers who could not be described as “public”.

The weekend playtest demo was a public reveal to a system in this process. Give them feedback on that system and leave the guessing and speculation out.

My feedback: I like the system as a whole except that you cannot see rarity differences for rare and exotic gear. Splitting those out would do miles for this system. As a player I do not like having to gamble to find rares that I was getting from the previous system. If the intention was to add a new gold sink I do not think this was the way to do it. It adds stress (in that the player feels worse about a game system ie has less fun) to the game and only adds small amounts of QoL. Splitting out the rarities stops that stress and allows for the player to identify (and use the gold sink) for rares and exotics and salvage or sell the rest.

As a player I would be far more likely to sell the unidentified blues and greens on the TP to let others gamble if they want.

I dunno that heart mechanic will be a pain as well and added “stress” point. Having to always complete a heart before you even get to the “id” portion is ONE more added step and a long one. The heart fill was a bit long in my opinion for an NPC that serves as more than just something to purchase from but also something that offers a “service”. I did all the hearts, I do not really remember one that had a “short” bar but I might be misremembering (someone please correct me if I’m wrong here).

Also, the point was to try to draw new players as well as old into the new area. I don’t think having new players who go through Central Tyria first (and maybe not play HoT) will like the “have to do a heart AND THEN pay to ID” system. It will turn them off pretty quickly.

I understand the “gold sink” need for higher end players but at the same time this gold sink punishes players who haven’t been playing that long.

I like getting collections (it’s what got me hooked on playing). I’m not generally interested in the gold portion.. Now to continue getting collections I have to spend and that is punishing. I could always choose NOT to do it and then I will never have the option of getting a piece from a collection because I always have to salvage because I never have enough to actually “gamble” to try for something. To me that’s a barrier for entry and it punishes new players. So while those who already have everything in the game probably won’t notice it, those of us who do not will notice it. If the goal was to try to bring new players to play the expac I don’t think this mechanic will work out especially if they’ve been playing the free version and are on the Central Tyria maps.

Nilix.2170:

Ferelwing.8463:

The new mechanic doesn’t feel like it offers meaningful choices, if you choose to sell the items to vendor sight unseen or you salvage the items you will always wonder if perhaps there was a rare/exotic/precusor in that group. If you choose not to and all you get are greens and blue’s then you will feel like you wasted money.

NONE of those are good answers.

Welcome to gambling.

Ferelwing.8463:

I don’t like to gamble, I like to plan and make informed decisions.

Yeah, neither do I. Which is why we’re going to wait for the gamblers with lots of money to stack 20k UNID’s, open them, tell you the drop rates, and you can be more informed as to whether Identifying or Salvaging is a more intelligent decision.
Until then, sell, salvage, or stock them up.

A lot of what I see right now is people bemoaning the fact that they’ll now have to be responsible about their actions. If you get an UNID, it’s a green. It dropped from the green loot table. Paying to ID is just paying to reroll the loot table. Much like how paying 1.5g lets you reroll for Pearls in Abaddon’s Reliquary. No one stole a yellow from you. No one snatched a precursor either. In the same way that you’re not going to play a game mode that you don’t like, don’t take a gamble that you don’t enjoy.

Honestly, no, I don’t really care for that “table” either. I don’t randomly buy stuff to put into the mystic toilet for the “loot” either. If I have a LOT of extra dungeon tokens and I want to buy the skins but the items aren’t useful I will put 4 of them in the mystic toilet with the understanding that I am not getting anything super awesome but something that I can either salvage or sell on the TP. Otherwise I avoid it. I don’t do the gambling for ecto’s either. At the same time NONE of those options force me to spend what little gold/silvers that I do have for the possibility. The only thing I’m risking is stuff I already have.

The “responsibility” that you’re talking about isn’t responsibility it’s gambling. There really isn’t anything else about it. I don’t like gambling and I don’t like that the majority of the loot involves gambling. I like collections, that’s what got me addicted to playing and then led me to start doing all of the fun things like achievements etc. Gold has never been a priority and I don’t like that all of a sudden it’s going to have to be.

I chose GW2 after a LOT of research on different RPG style games out there. Since there really aren’t anymore LAN related RPG games left and the MMO has taken over the place that LAN RPG’s used to hold, I did a LOT of research. I chose this game based on the mechanics and that it was like the RPG’s that I’ve already played through. GW1 had the “id” mechanic and I specifically didn’t buy it because I was warned about it.

So now, new maps that “call back” to GW1 and we get the “id” mechanic? It’s a regression to take something that you got for free in every other area to suddenly have it taken away because GW1 call-back.

I’m a new player relatively speaking. I started playing last year and I do not have a massive amount of gold stored up. I’m still scrambling to finish making ascended gear on my 3 main characters and while I did spend literally hours doing nothing but gathering so that I could work on a legendary (crafted a precursor and I am now grinding my way to get the rest of the pieces needed to finally finish it while simultaneously trying to complete ascended gear). The only things I spent gold on were the Mystic related things. I haven’t amassed the amount of gold others do because I didn’t want to sit and grind Silver Wastes or do any of the other things that would get me lots of gold because that wasn’t fun for me. I liked exploring, getting achievement points for finding and exploring sections. I liked finishing achievements and redoing certain instances to try to complete them in new ways. I have map completion on 4 characters and am steadily working to complete the map on 4 more, for no other reason then I was curious to see how every single class played through and every single variation of the storyline (I will eventually have 3 of every race so that I can play through every single back story just because for me that is interesting). So for me the gold sink feels like a punishment because most collections involve drops and I like collecting things so I’m going to feel compelled to id which puts me in a situation where I’m going to be losing a lot of money and resenting it.

The drops in the new area involved unid’s for events and unid’s for chests etc. I could see chests sure, you get a key and unlock a chest, perhaps iding those would make sense (but they should still be separated by different types rather than ALL of them be green) but those involved doing events.. Getting unid’s for events (I spend the time finish an event and get paid with loot… I do NOT want to have to pay to get loot id’d and the mats that dropped weren’t anymore useful than the stuff that I get in HoT, plus the bonus of HoT always showing me precisely what it is I’m getting so I can make an INFORMED choice rather than gamble.)

IndigoSundown.5419:

Essentially, while this feature might benefit the player who is cynical about loot in GW2, it kittens the player who likes loot.

Completely honest here: I hope that no one likes the loot system in GW2. It’s so annoying to the player, it really shouldn’t get any praise. Basically any other MMORPG has handled loot-to-inventory better than this.

That’s not to say that it is unusable. Clearly we play the game. But it’s the low point of MMORPGs, and it really is difficult to make it worse.

Removing a good 75% (or so, felt like 75%) of trash loot drops in favor of a currency I can “trade in” for either crafting mats or a gamble on skins would… be pretty cool?

Just a thought, they could remove the “pain” from this for new and old players by changing it from silver to karma. Karma is an easily renewable source, HoT, LWS3, and PoF areas all have redoable renowned hearts. As they already have us having to do a heart to even start the “id” portion of it then it would make better sense and feel more “fair”. I object to spending coins that are a harder resource for new players, gold generation until you have started getting more achievements and spent more time playing the game is very low (I think you have to finish a full month before you get your first “gold generation bonus” and I can’t remember the first achievement box level you get, I want to say it’s 100 achievements but it might be lower than that. But at 1% per “achievement level” it still takes time. So while many older players may have too much gold those at the beginning of that are not getting nearly that much). As a result the id system is punishing to those just getting started and they will miss out on collections etc because “salvage all” is less expensive then “id”. I suspect that some of this is an attempt to make up for the lack of waypoints in the new area, but that would mean that they need to scale that based on the same stats that they use for waypoints (though I’m not entirely sure that will be fair either since I suspect it’s level based not based on what your bonus gold generation is plus your chances for loot. If you immediately come to the new area by getting insta-level 80 it’s pretty punishing), but again gold generation is a problem for new players which will then be punishing as “bonuses to gold generation” take a while to build up.

I wouldn’t mind nearly as much if it involved karma. It would encourage people to get map completion and do the story-lines and in many areas hearts are a renewable resource (and honestly, I’d LOVE to have things that don’t clutter my bank to spend it on).

While i understand that this is not the “official” feedback thread, can we get some acknowledgment that someone from Anet is reading this thread and hopefully taking what is being said here into consideration?

Carighan.6758:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Essentially, while this feature might benefit the player who is cynical about loot in GW2, it kittens the player who likes loot.

Completely honest here: I hope that no one likes the loot system in GW2. It’s so annoying to the player, it really shouldn’t get any praise. Basically any other MMORPG has handled loot-to-inventory better than this.

That’s not to say that it is unusable. Clearly we play the game. But it’s the low point of MMORPGs, and it really is difficult to make it worse.

Removing a good 75% (or so, felt like 75%) of trash loot drops in favor of a currency I can “trade in” for either crafting mats or a gamble on skins would… be pretty cool?

Now this would be nice, having a token or a currency that lets me choose what I want to do with it is fine. (IE this token is worth x (mats) x(loot) x(skin).) I would prefer that to paying to id with silvers etc. If they absolutely have to have us “spend” then perhaps having us use Karma would be a better option? As it’s not nearly as difficult to build up and it doesn’t punish the new player nor the beginning player.

At this point I’ve pretty much given up reading all the recent arguments for and against. It seems things are going in circles with a lot of the same rehashed arguments. There are a lot of good arguments for and against. I think Anet at this point should be aware/hope they are aware that this is an interesting and maybe important subject given the amount of forum feedback and views. I’ll look forward to seeing how this issue continues once PoF launches or if there is another unannounced/unscheduled demo event before launch that may reveal more. Until then I’m holding off on any further comments and opinion. Let’s see how Anet handles it I guess.

Edit: Please keep speaking for and against. That is important for Anet. I just don’t feel I have anything else to say or read at this point until I see more. I’m not even sure why I posted this aside from I have been drinking a few unidentified beers.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Djinn.9245:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Djinn.9245:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

You’re just thinking about this from the wrong end. It’s just a different system. Rares and exotics are not mixed into the bunch, they do not exist until you ID the trophies. Imagine they are a chest that has a random item inside and a better chance at getting a rare than you do from drops and that it costs you 1.68s to open them. The beauty is that if you just want materials, you can salvage them directly and get a lot more materials than you do usually, like a LOT more.

This is not how people think. People want to know what is in the bag. And if there is a chance that what is in the bag is something good, even if the chance is small, people will want to know even more. That is why gamble chests and grab bags in stores work.

The developers are counting on this very thing for BL chests and the new gamble boxes. So they obviously understand exactly how this new UnID Gear will work. So a large number of, if not most, people will want to ID the gear. New players will not have good Magic Find and so will probably not even break even from the cost of ID. So as I said the new players lose. Just what GW2 needs…

No, they will still end up with luck to increase their MF as well as comparable loot drops to just playing normally.

It’s interesting that you are consistently presenting your ideas as fact. Do you work for Anet and you’re just hoping they don’t figure out that you’re answering questions? If you don’t work for Anet you actually have no idea.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

They already have low MF so don’t get a lot of rares regardless. The 1.68s cost will be more than equalled out by material rewards, that’s how these gold sinks work, its not trying to steal anything from you, it is you exchanging some silver for more materials and skins. That’s it.

Yes, they have to PAY 1.68s to get the “comparable loot drops to just playing normally”. So they ARE stealing from us if you are correct about the “comparable loot drops to just playing normally”. We have to pay $ and time, as Whitworth and others have pointed out, to get the “comparable loot drops to just playing normally”.

I meant comparable drops and value after you take out the cost to ID. They want to remove gold from the economy, not materials.

Gold generation is already a pain point for new players because the “bonuses” to that generation 1% I believe per achievement level and I think monthly you get around 1 or 2%. So new players have to play quite a while before gold starts to really be a thing they have. They have to either grind achievements or grind places like the Silver Wastes to attempt to get enough gold to really start “enjoying” the game. Each of the expac’s have involved a “buy now get an instant level 80 plus gear and char slot” as part of the selling point. People who are trying to convince their friends to come play like to point out that they can instantly join them in the upper levels and then they can also do the content along with their friends who are already fully leveled … What isn’t really discussed is that gold generation until you’ve been playing a while IS a problem. Events don’t give you much gold when you first start playing, I’ve been playing a year and I get a couple of silvers during an event (plus trash loot, rares and the occasional exotic). My husband who doesn’t play as much as I do only gets a few coppers from the exact same event and his loot shares are less. His primary gold gains come from selling rares and crafting. While I can understand older players might “need” a gold sink it could be handled another way, one that doesn’t involve punishing newer players. It’s pretty difficult to get someone interested in playing a game when they’re constantly out of gold. “I can’t tp to you because I don’t have the money… etc”

While some players don’t have this problem and don’t care, I’ve been trying to get friends to come join the game and this mechanic makes me leery of recommending it, I don’t want to hype them up on a game then have them want to quit because they are always feeling the “gold pains”.

As someone who has only been playing a year I can attest to the frustration with how long it’s taking just to attain gold (I don’t want to spend hours in the Silver Wastes or in AB and while for a while there I was enjoying doing Lake Doric for the leather specifically so that I could make Ascended items, I didn’t do it for the money it was literally the only reliable place to get leather from and it was BORING to sit there and do once it stopped involving going up the hill.) I’m not fully geared, I’m still working hard to build a full set for even 1. I got side-tracked since I was already gathering for Ascended I figured it wouldn’t be too much hassle to gather for a Legendary (I was SO wrong but once I got started I was committed and so I got to the Precursor stage before switching focus to just trying to get ONE character full ascended).

For the players that have all of these things it doesn’t matter, for the players who have been playing for years it also probably doesn’t matter but for those of us who are “new” or “newer” it really does. I understand the need to balance a system but I object to being punished because I didn’t start playing the game when it first launched.

BoogerSammich.7189:

This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.

No, it doesn’t. It just turns bags into bags you have to pay to open. It’s a cash grab.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

While i understand that this is not the “official” feedback thread, can we get some acknowledgment that someone from Anet is reading this thread and hopefully taking what is being said here into consideration?

Don’t count on that. They’ll address it after the people that hate it have already left.

BoogerSammich.7189:

Daddicus.6128:

BoogerSammich.7189:

It’s not irrelevant.
In fact, it’s entirely relevant.
we are talking about carrying around gear.
ID’ing the gear and/or salvaging it is a completely different conversation.

OK, so you’re saying we can ID 250 items, and put them … where?

If you ID a stack of items, that requires 250 slots. Otherwise, you can’t finish IDing the stack.

If you are carrying around a stack of 250 unidentified gear, it takes ONE inventory slot..
If you are carrying around 250 pieces of identified gear, then it takes 250 inventory slots.
249 inventory slots saved with the unidentified gear. full stop.

Now, if you decide to ID the gear, then you have taken action to convert the unidentified gear into actual gear.
You no longer have unidentified gear, through your actions you now have identified gear.
It is at this point that the conversation changes because you have taken action to convert the unidentified gear into individual pieces of gear.

But again, so long as you continue to have unidentified gear, then inventory slots are saved.

Yeah, like I said, “if you ID a stack of items, that requires 250 slots.” Thanks for acknowledging my point.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Have you seen how many more materials are created when you salvage the unid gear? it’s significantly more (over double) than salvaging weapons/armor and all tiers are created, meaning the supply of the lower tiers will be increased significantly. I’d say they want to reduce the cost of materials because that’s exactly what salvaging the unid gear will do.

Does that make up for the precursors you will never get? How about ectos? Dark matter? Runes and sigils?

Rashagar.8349:

If the perceived value (TP price) of these unidentified whatevers is lower than the minimum sale price there will still be a stack of 200,000 or something similarly ridiculously large for 1c above the minimum sale price on the TP, and there will still be people who buy them (just not as many as people who sell them).

Do they have a merchant value?

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

They will sell like hotcakes because they salvage into a lot more material than ordinary green weapons, people who don’t understand are going to list them and those tho do understand are going to buy them and salvage. Or, those that have high MF will buy them, get tons of rares and then salvage into ectos.

So, it’s a good thing to profit from other peoples’ ignorance?

Carighan.6758:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Essentially, while this feature might benefit the player who is cynical about loot in GW2, it kittens the player who likes loot.

Completely honest here: I hope that no one likes the loot system in GW2. It’s so annoying to the player, it really shouldn’t get any praise. Basically any other MMORPG has handled loot-to-inventory better than this.

That’s not to say that it is unusable. Clearly we play the game. But it’s the low point of MMORPGs, and it really is difficult to make it worse.

Removing a good 75% (or so, felt like 75%) of trash loot drops in favor of a currency I can “trade in” for either crafting mats or a gamble on skins would… be pretty cool?

Sorry to disappoint. I like loot. I’d like it better if I could vendor all runes/sigils with one click. I’d like it better if there was one bag type per rarity per zone so they’d stack better. However, after the implementation of salvage all by rarity I have no other complaints. And, since I’ve yet to play another MMO in which the loot experience did not kitten, I suspect that there’s a fair bit of grass is greener going on when people claim differently.

Small sample sizes, so your “felt” 75% was my “felt” 5%. As it stands now, I will be salvaging all the UNIDd items sight unseen. I like seeing loot. I hope there’ll be enough other drops that I won’t miss the ones I won’t ID because I will not be paying to see loot even if that means I never see another rare.