Guild Wars 2

the rest of this game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff
we just dont want players to grind in guild wars 2 noone enjoys them noone find them fun we want to change the way people knew combat

oh wait a second now its time for Heart of Grind

“I grind a hero point i grind a heroe point again heyhe i grind it again thats great

I just can’t believe how boring HoT is, and Anet was pounding their chest and patting themselves on the should and it turn out to be this boring and confusing. It felt like it was a chore/job to do instead of being fun. To those that didn’t buy it, you not missing out on much. As a matter of fact, I envy those that didn’t waste their money.

“Do you see that cool spec we’ve made? Would you like to play the new and interesting story like that? You would, wouldn’t you? Well, you can’t. Once you finished with the game and if you’ve been a good boy, maybe we’ll let you try it”

They should replace the dragon icon with two gears and call it “Grind of Thorns”

I think it’s they just don’t know what they’re doing as a company. They don’t know what’s MOST important in their values. Is it WvW? Ongoing events? Expansions? PVP? Story and world depth? Guilds? Character building? Community? They try to cover this lack of plan with new currencies, new systems, rewards like dailies and log-ins, etc… but it’s still a lack of a true solid plan and I still don’t know what kind of gameplay I’m supposed to “count on” from them.

In short, seems like they aimed to serve too many masters and the end result was it’s not really panning out, so add more grind to keep people playing a wee bit longer. To me though that seems like a cycle of diminishing returns.

How many times are people going to come in here and call the game grindy as if anything that isn’t instant gratification is grind?

The only things that you could argue are grind are optional bonuses and rewards that aren’t necessary. Those are there for the people who want to be hardcore.

It’s okay for hardcore players to have things you don’t. It’s okay to not have every new feature unlocked after 2 days of playing the expansion.

Mo Mo.1947:

The only things that you could argue are grind are optional bonuses and rewards that aren’t necessary. Those are there for the people who want to be hardcore.

.

Okay ty you convinced me

I start HoT now and play the new story.

… oh wait whats this O.o

…. i cant go on playing without grinding 5 mio xp to do the next story episode ( its more than from 0 to 80)

but nice guy at forum told me i only have to grind for optional bonuses and rewards that aren’t necessary.

it must be a bug O.o

until it will be fixed i go on swinging my sword and after that i swing it again cause thats great

Mo Mo.1947:

How many times are people going to come in here and call the game grindy as if anything that isn’t instant gratification is grind?

The only things that you could argue are grind are optional bonuses and rewards that aren’t necessary. Those are there for the people who want to be hardcore.

It’s okay for hardcore players to have things you don’t. It’s okay to not have every new feature unlocked after 2 days of playing the expansion.

I keep seeing this Instant Gratification line being tossed around. People forget players didnt know the full content until after getting the xpac. If the content doesn’t match their expectations then they leave feedback.

Yes, they can do this in a day. You don’t need to play content to know what it is. I know what is required for a legendary without having one or getting one.

Zaron.1987:

Mo Mo.1947:

The only things that you could argue are grind are optional bonuses and rewards that aren’t necessary. Those are there for the people who want to be hardcore.

.

Okay ty you convinced me

I start HoT now and play the new story.

… oh wait whats this O.o

…. i cant go on playing without grinding 5 mio xp to do the next story episode ( its more than from 0 to 80)

but nice guy at forum told me i only have to grind for optional bonuses and rewards that aren’t necessary.

it must be a bug O.o

until it will be fixed i go on swinging my sword and after that i swing it again cause thats great

You can say the same thing from the beginning. of the game, level 10 story need level 10. You should be level 20 for the level 20 area. can’t equip this awesome shield till I hit level 30. Everything need effort of the player. There no race though, so don’t try to burn your self out also.

Shen Slayer.3058:

I just can’t believe how boring HoT is, and Anet was pounding their chest and patting themselves on the should and it turn out to be this boring and confusing. It felt like it was a chore/job to do instead of being fun. To those that didn’t buy it, you not missing out on much. As a matter of fact, I envy those that didn’t waste their money.

glad to hear that

Lol, you guys…

Mo Mo.1947:

How many times are people going to come in here and call the game grindy as if anything that isn’t instant gratification is grind?

The only things that you could argue are grind are optional bonuses and rewards that aren’t necessary. Those are there for the people who want to be hardcore.

It’s okay for hardcore players to have things you don’t. It’s okay to not have every new feature unlocked after 2 days of playing the expansion.

Well, the questions are: "What is there to do in HoT that does not require repeating stuff one prefers not to do to get to stuff one does want to do? How much of it is gated behind glider/mushroom Masteries? How much isn’t?

The base game offered a ton of stuff to do that did not require repetition ad nauseam. Based on what has been written about HoT, can one say the same? If so, what is all that stuff, exactly?

TJgalon.5012:

Zaron.1987:

Mo Mo.1947:

The only things that you could argue are grind are optional bonuses and rewards that aren’t necessary. Those are there for the people who want to be hardcore.

.

Okay ty you convinced me

I start HoT now and play the new story.

… oh wait whats this O.o

…. i cant go on playing without grinding 5 mio xp to do the next story episode ( its more than from 0 to 80)

but nice guy at forum told me i only have to grind for optional bonuses and rewards that aren’t necessary.

it must be a bug O.o

until it will be fixed i go on swinging my sword and after that i swing it again cause thats great

You can say the same thing from the beginning. of the game, level 10 story need level 10. You should be level 20 for the level 20 area. can’t equip this awesome shield till I hit level 30. Everything need effort of the player. There no race though, so don’t try to burn your self out also.

I made a ranger alt once and I was told Gw2 was different the end game started as soon as your character was made. So I took my ranger and decided I’d collect all the ranger pets and thus traveled the entire game merely collecting pets and before I was even level 5 on that alt I collected every single ranger pet in the game. The reason this was possible was because nothing was gated there were no barriers as GW was free to do as I pleased. A friend of mine started playing and all he wanted to do was explore and that’s what he did that exact same friend bought HoT and he didn’t want to do the campaign right off the bat he simply wanted to explore. That is all gated as he got as far as he could before the game capped his exploration off with gliding mastery. You should be level 20 for the level 20 area but you don’t have to there are no barriers this statement isn’t true for HoT at all and thus no I cannot compare the original Gw2 core to what this expansion is trying to sell as there not the same thing at all.I’ve heard from too many people who were once thrilled at the more laid back GW2 MMO model and are upset with what HoT has become. GW2 was a laid back MMO with a great community with an emphasis on doing what you want when you wanted if your skill permitted. HoT is nothing like the core or what Anet told us they envisioned for this game.

I played WoW for 5.5 years, I played it like a job and back then that’s what I wanted but that’s not what I want now. The thing that really drew me to GW2 was how casual friendly it was, all the huge grinds were totally optional (legendaries mostly) but I think HoT has completely missed the mark, it’s no longer the game it once was and that’s a shame.

If you want to see grind play LOTRO lol

I guess it’s all perspective…

I really do not know. I not minded it. I seen them as a goal, as i got stronger, i can explore the harsh jungle. Fining new way to travel. It going to be sad how easy it is for my alts to just waltz through it, but that also the benefit i feel too.

Test.8734:

Drennon.7190:

Take this for what you will, but I just want to know when the old philosophy of “We don’t make grindy games” flew out the window.

A lot went flying through the window.

“We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun”

And then HoT is basically a couple hours of new content hard gated by massive grind.

“Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward.”

HoT is entirely about preparing to have fun by grinding before being able to use specializations.

When asked about GW2’s release date, the answer was, “When it’s ready”

Meanwhile, HoT got released with legendary weapons to be added “later”, the raid to be added “later”, the new squad system to be added “later”, and so on and so on.

ArenaNet turned around and shot most of what they claimed was their “basic design philosophy”.

IMO, that’s a sign of how much they deserve to be trusted.

Excellent post.

Test.8734:

Drennon.7190:

Take this for what you will, but I just want to know when the old philosophy of “We don’t make grindy games” flew out the window.

A lot went flying through the window.

“We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun”

And then HoT is basically a couple hours of new content hard gated by massive grind.

“Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward.”

HoT is entirely about preparing to have fun by grinding before being able to use specializations.

When asked about GW2’s release date, the answer was, “When it’s ready”

Meanwhile, HoT got released with legendary weapons to be added “later”, the raid to be added “later”, the new squad system to be added “later”, and so on and so on.

ArenaNet turned around and shot most of what they claimed was their “basic design philosophy”.

IMO, that’s a sign of how much they deserve to be trusted.

Precisely. +1

I personally don’t mind having to get experience to progress in the game. I think what seems to have been a big issue for me in the new area is the world event missions that give that exp and the population of players. As it seems when an event pops you’ll be lucky to have enough people help you to even get that exp. I don’t know if this is a general population issue or because the maps are so big. It’s a issue that makes gaining mastery levels more a pain that has nothing to do with the experience gain part of the grind but more of not having enough people around to do stuff like in the normal zones.

Test.8734:

Drennon.7190:

Take this for what you will, but I just want to know when the old philosophy of “We don’t make grindy games” flew out the window.

A lot went flying through the window.

“We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun”

And then HoT is basically a couple hours of new content hard gated by massive grind.

“Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward.”

HoT is entirely about preparing to have fun by grinding before being able to use specializations.

When asked about GW2’s release date, the answer was, “When it’s ready”

Meanwhile, HoT got released with legendary weapons to be added “later”, the raid to be added “later”, the new squad system to be added “later”, and so on and so on.

ArenaNet turned around and shot most of what they claimed was their “basic design philosophy”.

IMO, that’s a sign of how much they deserve to be trusted.

indeed +1

I am not seeing any grinding at all. I am just playing the game and having fun in both HoT and Tyria getting lots of XP for masteries.

What are you talking about…it’s all grind and gated.

Shen Slayer.3058:

I just can’t believe how boring HoT is,

“Bored people are often boring themselves.” HoT is fun imo.

This game is now awesome!! After three years they finally fixed it so people have goals to conquer and everything you do gets you closer to a reward or new skill. The BIGGEST problem with the original game was that you could skip too much stuff and just farm stuff for gold. That was soo boring. At least if I have to grind, give me new skills/goals to achieve and the mastery system does just that. No, it is not instant gratification, but it makes the playing field equal for all players so players are not left behind by those who play all day. Fast players will be penalized for a while with timers and hard content until others catch up. Then they will adjust the end game to allow for more solo players. The most fun I have had in three years was the opening instance to the jungle where I was playing with others but in a loose group like silverwastes but content was challenging but not overly difficult. I unlocked part of the berserker and it is awesome and powerful and I have been using it in the halloween events and stomping some Mad King enemies. The game feels more like a crafter’s game with slow but steady progress and the need to do many different things to progress sort of like making ascended pieces from recipes. It takes a while but you feel good when you accomplish the goal. I am not in any hurry and I have enough to do for another 3-4 years with all my alts and 2 new characters. I just purchased today and would recommend then purchase as staying in the old system is worthless as all the experience you are earning is not counting toward masteries so you should buy the new game where everything you do counts toward your progress and goals. I just wish this system had been around three years ago at launch as I may not have quit for 9 months during those living story seasons which were pretty bad and were not connected to the main game which is the dragons.

If you think you are grinding you are trying to rush everything and actually do not even know what grinding means.

You want to know what grinding is? Do the same instance over and over again for a chance at a new piece of gear that will make you better.. When you get that piece of gear go back and do the same instance over and over again for yet another chance to get a piece of gear that you need.. Rinse, repeat for months on end till you have a full set.. The catch here is that to even begin your grind for your new stuff you would of had to grind your old stuff in some instance before this one in the same exact way.

There are so many events that I don’t see how you guys consider it grinding. There is no way you should be complaining about doing dynamic events when the entire core game is based around them in every single map. If you think you are grinding now well you’ve been grinding since day one so you should have expected it..

I don’t mind the grind to continue the story, since (at present at least) the maps are pretty busy and still new to me so I don’t mind running through them a few times.
It’s just those hero points that get to me… well the thing is that so many of them are group events, so no soloing. This wouldn’t be a problem if not for the fact that some of them are hard to get to and thus results in me spamming map chat asking for people to help me, and then waiting for someone who has mastery X and who feel like going through all the effort to get to the hero point.

MrH.2591:

I played WoW for 5.5 years, I played it like a job and back then that’s what I wanted but that’s not what I want now. The thing that really drew me to GW2 was how casual friendly it was, all the huge grinds were totally optional (legendaries mostly) but I think HoT has completely missed the mark, it’s no longer the game it once was and that’s a shame.

This is pretty much my feeling. If I wanted grind, I would play WoW.

If there’s no grind, why are there milling stones now? I mean, that’s what they do – they grind things.

Rush is Right.9723:

The BIGGEST problem with the original game was that you could skip too much stuff and just farm stuff for gold.

That is the crux of the problem, your statement is in contravention of what Anet initially said.

In the original game, everyone had the choice of how they could approach the content and how they could advance through it, hence, play how you want to play (no grinding). HoT does not follow this philosophy at all, it’s the complete polar opposite.

If you want to grind through the original game and take the long drawn out path, that is your choice. But if I want to fast track my way through, that is my choice, and that is what made the original game great, we had a choice.

In HoT we don’t have a choice, we’re basically stuck on a linear path

I am going to have to add on to this post. This is actually ridiculous, the time it takes to grind is absolutely horrendous, 16k exp for 1 event that takes 20-30 MINUTES AT BEST; to beat a 1 MILLION EXP level requirement. And this is me talking with 52.5% of the Elite Spec unlocked, and level 6 Mastery level (Maguuma only, none of that CoF farming kitten).

If anything, they should’ve make the reward experience points by PERCENTAGE (20%/each) instead of this 16k experience bull-kitten.

Problem still lies in the ANets inability to realize that this game should be an MMO. The only online interaction you get is billion people mindlessly slamming a random worldboss = no interaction whatsoever. Plus, the majority of content they put in the game IS kittenING SINGLEPLAYER STORIES.
Solo grinding is the name of the game.

i can understand if the grind is for extra stuff, like the dry top and silverwastes. The loot is extra and thats a grind. They didnt put the story behind the grind. They just went “Here’s some extra shiny stoof that you might want, kill 3×10^18 dogs to get this new shiny thing”. You had the choice to say “duck it, imma just enjoy the story” and anet would be like “Sure. Np”

Now its just “Hey want to start that story? Why dont you kill 3×10^18 vines and or raptors to get unlock the mastery to proceed? Or just walk around aimlessly for about 10 mins to find an event no one is doing then repeat a few more times to get an event that thankfully some people are doing to get about 2.5% of the mastery bar. Or you can just kill 3×10^18 vines.”

SliceOfUnagi.6532:

i can understand if the grind is for extra stuff, like the dry top and silverwastes. The loot is extra and thats a grind. They didnt put the story behind the grind. They just went “Here’s some extra shiny stoof that you might want, kill 3×10^18 dogs to get this new shiny thing”. You had the choice to say “duck it, imma just enjoy the story” and anet would be like “Sure. Np”

This is the main issue, IMO.

Grinding for the basic tools of a profession – skills and traits – really doesn’t work. It’s obvious that after so long with the same few skills, people would like to experience the new content using their new specializations. With the way the game is now, it requires a massive grind to access what was one of the main selling points of HoT.

You guys remember that mmo expansion where you didnt have some sort of new leveling type deal going on?

I dont

ITT: People who dont realize that masteries and elite spec is the new form of expansion leveling.

Zanther Deathbringer.4762:

You guys remember that mmo expansion where you didnt have some sort of new leveling type deal going on?

I dont

ITT: People who dont realize that masteries and elite spec is the new form of expansion leveling.

Pity that ANet waited until 4 days before launch to tell people that. Up to then, the expectation based on both precedent and data mining was that one would be able to unlock right off the bat. All that waiting, expecting to play something new, only to find out at the last minute that there would be more waiting while playing the same old build one was tired of.

Zanther Deathbringer.4762:

You guys remember that mmo expansion where you didnt have some sort of new leveling type deal going on?

I dont

When Guild Wars: Factions was released, the level cap wasn’t raised and you didn’t have a “leveling type deal going on”.

Zanther Deathbringer.4762:

ITT: People who dont realize that masteries and elite spec is the new form of expansion leveling.

ITT: People who don’t realize that artificially inflating the longevity of small amounts of content through leveling and other kinds of grind only work on gullible players.

This just in

GW1 wasnt a mmo. Just like Diablo 2 and 3 arent mmos

Zanther Deathbringer.4762:

This just in

GW1 wasnt a mmo

The only way in which it did not fit some people’s narrow definition of an MMORPG is the lack of a persistent world…which has nothing to do with leveling, grind, etc.

There is a slight difference between having to put a reasonable amount of effort into something and having to grind for something.

Drennon.7190:

“We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.” – Mike Obrian

What happened to this philosophy? Literally everything in HoT is gated behind a grind.

-Want to start your story? Grind mobs/events for gliders!
-Want to get that hero point up there? Grind some more for a mushroom mastery!
-Want that other hero point? LOL got ya! Grind some more glider mastery for updraft.
-Finally made it up there? It’s a champion on a timer! Better hope someone else nearby has grinded as much as you!

This is annoying to begin with, but it gets even worse. Not only do you have to grind these masteries, but it’s not even a reasonable amount of grinding. The XP requirements are astronomical.

I’ve spent 90% of this expansion painfully grinding rather than enjoying the scenery and exploring.

I know some people are defending this system and saying the entire expansion should be challenging, but you are forgetting that casuals are what mainly makes our community.

While I’ll begrudgingly continue grinding, people like my wife will not. She is the perfect example of casual. She gets on, plays around, explores a little bit, and logs off after 2 or 3 hours. She watched me play HoT and quickly decided that it’s not for her. When I asked her what the biggest turn off was, she stated “that looks like way to much work just to explore and enjoy the scenery.”

Take this for what you will, but I just want to know when the old philosophy of “We don’t make grindy games” flew out the window.

semantics can be a real downer can’t they… I neither agree nor disagree with what you are saying. I just think that one persons definition is not always another persons.

some of it seems grindy to me other parts just seemed designed poorly but grind was not the intent.

I deal with this all day long at work. I have a team that all does stuff differently… problem is we are doing tasks that have to follow a certain protocol and best practice of everything just gets worse.

It is a dirty kitten trying to please everyone all the time and in the end if you can chances are you are personally unhappy. I would still gladly take one of their jobs and design this game so you could complain about me as I bet they make a lot more than I do… /soap box crushed.

Ashen.2907:

Zanther Deathbringer.4762:

This just in

GW1 wasnt a mmo

The only way in which it did not fit some people’s narrow definition of an MMORPG is the lack of a persistent world…which has nothing to do with leveling, grind, etc.

I bet you think diablo 2 and 3 are mmos.

Zanther Deathbringer.4762:

Ashen.2907:

Zanther Deathbringer.4762:

This just in

GW1 wasnt a mmo

The only way in which it did not fit some people’s narrow definition of an MMORPG is the lack of a persistent world…which has nothing to do with leveling, grind, etc.

I bet you think diablo 2 and 3 are mmos.

How much are you willing to bet?

My problem isn’t that it takes effort, my problem is it takes all the leisure out of exploring these new maps because I’d like to use the new specialization in my preferred game mode, which is WvWvW. The maps are beautiful but hard to navigate so finding the hero points can be quite difficult even with the masteries. I don’t feel rewarded when I get them, I just feel relieved that it’s over. Not a good thing. There is no such gating of the new weapon and skills in sPvP because they know that would just annoy their target eSports crowd. It’s too little to gate as much as they did (I mean seriously, a weapon and a handful of skills).

Drennon.7190:

“We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.” – Mike Obrian

What happened to this philosophy? Literally everything in HoT is gated behind a grind.

-Want to start your story? Grind mobs/events for gliders!
-Want to get that hero point up there? Grind some more for a mushroom mastery!
-Want that other hero point? LOL got ya! Grind some more glider mastery for updraft.
-Finally made it up there? It’s a champion on a timer! Better hope someone else nearby has grinded as much as you!

This is annoying to begin with, but it gets even worse. Not only do you have to grind these masteries, but it’s not even a reasonable amount of grinding. The XP requirements are astronomical.

I’ve spent 90% of this expansion painfully grinding rather than enjoying the scenery and exploring.

I know some people are defending this system and saying the entire expansion should be challenging, but you are forgetting that casuals are what mainly makes our community.

While I’ll begrudgingly continue grinding, people like my wife will not. She is the perfect example of casual. She gets on, plays around, explores a little bit, and logs off after 2 or 3 hours. She watched me play HoT and quickly decided that it’s not for her. When I asked her what the biggest turn off was, she stated “that looks like way to much work just to explore and enjoy the scenery.”

Take this for what you will, but I just want to know when the old philosophy of “We don’t make grindy games” flew out the window.

what is EVERY GAME EVER
grinding. repeating.

what is LIFE
grinding. repeating.

think of it. you wake up. you eat. you go to work. you come home. you eat. you sleep. repeat

in a video game. you shoot the enemy, move to the next area. shoot those. move on. repeat

its how you VIEW it that determines if its grindy.

GW2 isn’t grindy to me because it ATTEMPTS to add fresh dialogue, or new stuff to do in between the grinding.

it can’t remove the repetitive grinding. NOTHING can do that.
but it can attempt to hide the grinding by addign stuff to distract you like a wonderful story, or a surprise, or entertaining side job.

and in that regard. GW2 does a great job. Instead of “going here. kill move on. kill move on.”
GW2 has me going "rescue the hostages. escort them. kill mob. move. kill mob move. ok done? now go hunt down the traitors who are trying to kill some hostages. or go help clear the area for a sensor.

at its base. its grinding the same way either option i pick.

but GW2 has disguised it so that if i am immersed in the game(which u seem to not be) then i don’t notice they are same. cause i’m imagining saving hostages or clearing the field of insects.

it works.

if they removed all the grinding from the game. there WOULDNT be a game. it would just be a movie.

Most people complaining have a history of negative posts even before the xpansion just sayin

The grind only exists for people who’re in a rush. My tip: don’t rush and don’t impose deadlines upon yourself (aka: “I need every mastery point before wednesday”). Just play the game and progression will happen naturally.

good luck & have fun!

To the people defending the grind; Anet promised and sold GW2 as no-grind, no gating. That was what made GW2 special, better, and a pleasure to play. There are lots of games that play like HoT, and the old-school games are grindier. Except for GW1, which was less grindy than HoT.

So those of us who backed GW2, and enjoyed its different take on MMOs feel betrayed by HoT. What I’d like to see is the firing or forced resignation of the manager(s) responsible for this betrayal. I’m sure many of the developers opposed how this was structured, and some probably even got forced out or quit — HoT is a betrayal of the original company ethos.

Here is what Anet should have learned about introducing excessive grind:

http://www.statista.com/statistics/276601/number-of-world-of-warcraft-subscribers-by-quarter/

Daulnay.4971:

To the people defending the grind; Anet promised and sold GW2 as no-grind, no gating. That was what made GW2 special, better, and a pleasure to play. There are lots of games that play like HoT, and the old-school games are grindier. Except for GW1, which was less grindy than HoT.

So those of us who backed GW2, and enjoyed its different take on MMOs feel betrayed by HoT. What I’d like to see is the firing or forced resignation of the manager(s) responsible for this betrayal. I’m sure many of the developers opposed how this was structured, and some probably even got forced out or quit — HoT is a betrayal of the original company ethos.

There have been personnel changes in recent months. The CDIS exist only as memories.

This is not the same ArenaNet, I think, that originated the game.

I’d love to see them prove me wrong.