Guild Wars 2

I find threads like this one hilarious just 6 days away from the games FIRST major content update. The FIRST one, and people are already complaining about a lack of longevity.

Hail the Mad King.

diabluz.2860:

Stevoli.8795:

diabluz.2860:

Every time a ostrich comes up I’m going to respond with this.

Wake up call!!!

Again, look at the top games… those are all eSport games. OF COURSE they are going to have higher number of viewers. Using that as your argument is like saying people aren’t interested in football because they aren’t watching live streams of a guy in his back yard throwing a football around.

Diablo 3 is NOT an esports game, neither is WoW. Even Diablo 3 has more interest and that is largely regarded to be a failure but has more interest than GW2 does and GW2 has only been out for a little over a month.

Diablo 3 is attached to a much much bigger and widely known company and in recent weeks is going through a lot of changes to fix the issues that made it such a failure in the first place right now… months after its release. Natural uptick in views.

WoW just released an expansion that was a lot better than many thought it’d be.

What does Twitch have to do with MMOs with even fewer players that are still open and running? AoC, EvE, EQ2, DDO, LOTRO… all still running and releasing updates/expansions/FPS spinoffs. Your “metrics” contradict reality.

If my head is in the sand, yours is up your kitten

I kind of regret feeding a troll though :\

There is ONLY 1 source of proof people need in order to realize how insanely wrong Diabluz is.

Go to the world selection and GOOD LUCK entering a server that isn’t at max population lol.

Mitsu: The OP was talking about everyone who plays MMOs as far as I could tell.

Also, there’s not really a “both sides” of “tiny samples don’t represent any sort of real analysis.”

People said the same about Guild Wars. And people are still playing

EverythingXen.1835:

If my head is in the sand, yours is up your kitten

That made me belly laugh… poor kitten

I like that many of you overlooked the part where he said his mmo community sampling is the “large pool of friends” he has that play mmos. I know some people that think diablo 3 is a great game. Do I think that’s the majority opinion? Hell no.

I unfortunately think I am in somewhat of a similar boat with OP.

Right now, I currently play GW2 and WoW. Whenever I am on WoW, I want to be playing GW2, whenever I am on GW2 I want to be on WoW. I feel like I should be on the other game because I am wasting time that I could be leveling.

However, I feel inclined to be on WoW because I know that game like the back of my hand, and I know everything about it. With Guild Wars, I unfortunately see tons of forum posts about how bad it is, no end game, etc.

I enjoy the game, it feels different, and I enjoy the gameplay, to an extent. It does feel grindy already and I am only level 15. I also feel as though I am sort of playing a single player game, because sure I always see people, but no one ever talks, etc. Maybe it’s because I am on a lower pop server, or it’s because my guild is super inactive.

I just fear for the games future like the OP does. Everyone was so hyped about SWTOR, and RIFT. SWTOR sold just as many copies if not more than GW2 at launch and that game is heading down a dark path right now. The heads of Bioware left the company because of how badly everything is going.

I have never felt like I should be playing another game in my 8+ years of WoW’dom. Everytime I logon to WoW, I say to myself, why am I not on GW2? I should be trying all the classes, leveling and seeing what I like. Conversing, figuring the game out etc. Then the forum posts, and the fear of the game having no future come into my head.

Those thoughts don’t arise in WoW, because it’s been around for 8+ years. However, with the way they’ve designed MOP, making it a do the same thing every day kind of game. I just don’t want to do it. The gear treadmill doesn’t sound good like it used to.

On the other hand, I fear not being good enough to strive in GW2 like I do in WoW. I am a beast tank on all the tank classes in WoW. I don’t PvP because I am filthy awful at it. That’s one of the biggest fears I have with GW2. What if I suck at this game in PvP like I do in WoW? I will never be accepted into most communities, because GW2 is all about PvP. It’s been that way since GW1.

I want Guild Wars to be a success, but I dont feel like it’s going to be. Maybe I just need a better guild or server. All I know is, I’ve never had such a hard time choosing which MMO to play. I bounce back and forth between the two all day. Go on WoW, level and alt easily or do redundant dailies. Or go on GW2, feel like Im in a single player game, enjoy the change of combat etc, but still feel like I am grinding my way through the same stuff just to hit 80. I enjoy both games, and I can honestly for the first time say that I don’t enjoy WoW more than anything else. I enjoy them both about equally. I just don’t know what to do. WoW is a dying game, albeit a long ways away from dying, they just keep making too many mistakes and honestly they’ve been giving us rehashed content for 4 years.

Flame on friends, I come here to vent and to hopefully gain insight on the decision I will ultimately need to make. I enjoy both games, and don’t consider myself bias or partial one way or the other.

The people who are saying that are right.

Mondy of War.8964:

I find threads like this one hilarious just 6 days away from the games FIRST major content update. The FIRST one, and people are already complaining about a lack of longevity.

Hail the Mad King.

Halloween event is a major content update? LOL you people are easy to please.

diabluz.2860:

Tirien.1326:

See what you are doing OP it’s fairly obvious.

If gw1 worked, gw2 will work aswell. No worries, i usually don’t care what other people say, i’m afterall strong not weak Cough.

It’s very rare that a game dies, look around you so many games that have been “dead” since release and yet are still here. Why bother to speculate, you have no idea what will happen next week let alone a few years from now. But gw1 has been with us for 7 years, and gw2 with its hype and amazing gameplay/PvP it will be with us for atleast 10 years, why not you know.. just go with it.

Speculate all you want, but if gw1 managed gw2 will manage… Since most people like this game i see nothing to be worried about.

That is where you are so totally wrong. Most people don’t like this game. Most people actually find this game boring and have left. Hence the title of the thread, Welcome to the Minority.

when you look around here, apparently the people who think this game sucks haven´t left at all, but seem rather addicted to this forum.

Talking about ‘your friends’ as being the ‘MMO community’ isn’t just possibly maybe wrong…. it is definitevly cognitive bias, of the ‘in-group’ variety.

The only way such statements can be made is by independent review, of which players of this game are not.

flyinpoons.6481:

Mondy of War.8964:

I find threads like this one hilarious just 6 days away from the games FIRST major content update. The FIRST one, and people are already complaining about a lack of longevity.

Hail the Mad King.

Halloween event is a major content update? LOL you people are easy to please.

Someone didn’t read the advertisement properly. Go have another look, champ.

TheFatness.5072:

I unfortunately think I am in somewhat of a similar boat with OP.

Right now, I currently play GW2 and WoW. Whenever I am on WoW, I want to be playing GW2, whenever I am on GW2 I want to be on WoW. I feel like I should be on the other game because I am wasting time that I could be leveling.

However, I feel inclined to be on WoW because I know that game like the back of my hand, and I know everything about it. With Guild Wars, I unfortunately see tons of forum posts about how bad it is, no end game, etc.

I enjoy the game, it feels different, and I enjoy the gameplay, to an extent. It does feel grindy already and I am only level 15. I also feel as though I am sort of playing a single player game, because sure I always see people, but no one ever talks, etc. Maybe it’s because I am on a lower pop server, or it’s because my guild is super inactive.

I just fear for the games future like the OP does. Everyone was so hyped about SWTOR, and RIFT. SWTOR sold just as many copies if not more than GW2 at launch and that game is heading down a dark path right now. The heads of Bioware left the company because of how badly everything is going.

I have never felt like I should be playing another game in my 8+ years of WoW’dom. Everytime I logon to WoW, I say to myself, why am I not on GW2? I should be trying all the classes, leveling and seeing what I like. Conversing, figuring the game out etc. Then the forum posts, and the fear of the game having no future come into my head.

Those thoughts don’t arise in WoW, because it’s been around for 8+ years. However, with the way they’ve designed MOP, making it a do the same thing every day kind of game. I just don’t want to do it. The gear treadmill doesn’t sound good like it used to.

On the other hand, I fear not being good enough to strive in GW2 like I do in WoW. I am a beast tank on all the tank classes in WoW. I don’t PvP because I am filthy awful at it. That’s one of the biggest fears I have with GW2. What if I suck at this game in PvP like I do in WoW? I will never be accepted into most communities, because GW2 is all about PvP. It’s been that way since GW1.

I want Guild Wars to be a success, but I dont feel like it’s going to be. Maybe I just need a better guild or server. All I know is, I’ve never had such a hard time choosing which MMO to play. I bounce back and forth between the two all day. Go on WoW, level and alt easily or do redundant dailies. Or go on GW2, feel like Im in a single player game, enjoy the change of combat etc, but still feel like I am grinding my way through the same stuff just to hit 80. I enjoy both games, and I can honestly for the first time say that I don’t enjoy WoW more than anything else. I enjoy them both about equally. I just don’t know what to do. WoW is a dying game, albeit a long ways away from dying, they just keep making too many mistakes and honestly they’ve been giving us rehashed content for 4 years.

Flame on friends, I come here to vent and to hopefully gain insight on the decision I will ultimately need to make. I enjoy both games, and don’t consider myself bias or partial one way or the other.

Good post…

Maybe you shouldn’t view the games as something you ‘have’ to do or log into. That’s what I’ve been doing with GW2…if I feel like playing, I call my friend up and we log in. He doesn’t play without me and I don’t play without him (other then sPvP).

I think there are a lot of people who really are stuck on the grind/treadmill thing because it’s something that has been engrained in us for 6+ years of WoW. Getting off that is really tough because the views of what you should be doing in an MMO are now suddenly ‘skewed’.

I suggest just log into GW2, level a few levels on different classes and enjoy the game and scenery. There is nothing to rush to or get to. Just enjoy it. And when you do, you’ll see that more and more content comes out and there will be more and more things to do.

I think you’re right. When I log on tonight and I’m doing dynamic events with dozens and dozens of people like I usually do, I’ll be sure to let them know that you said the game is doomed. I mean, we wouldn’t want all those players to be in the minority, right? We sure dodged a bullet there.

TheFatness.5072:

I unfortunately think I am in somewhat of a similar boat with OP.

Right now, I currently play GW2 and WoW. Whenever I am on WoW, I want to be playing GW2, whenever I am on GW2 I want to be on WoW. I feel like I should be on the other game because I am wasting time that I could be leveling.

However, I feel inclined to be on WoW because I know that game like the back of my hand, and I know everything about it. With Guild Wars, I unfortunately see tons of forum posts about how bad it is, no end game, etc.

I enjoy the game, it feels different, and I enjoy the gameplay, to an extent. It does feel grindy already and I am only level 15. I also feel as though I am sort of playing a single player game, because sure I always see people, but no one ever talks, etc. Maybe it’s because I am on a lower pop server, or it’s because my guild is super inactive.

I just fear for the games future like the OP does. Everyone was so hyped about SWTOR, and RIFT. SWTOR sold just as many copies if not more than GW2 at launch and that game is heading down a dark path right now. The heads of Bioware left the company because of how badly everything is going.

On the other hand, I fear not being good enough to strive in GW2 like I do in WoW. I am a beast tank on all the tank classes in WoW. I don’t PvP because I am filthy awful at it. That’s one of the biggest fears I have with GW2. What if I suck at this game in PvP like I do in WoW? I will never be accepted into most communities, because GW2 is all about PvP. It’s been that way since GW1.

I want Guild Wars to be a success, but I dont feel like it’s going to be. Maybe I just need a better guild or server. All I know is, I’ve never had such a hard time choosing which MMO to play. I bounce back and forth between the two all day. Go on WoW, level and alt easily or do redundant dailies. Or go on GW2, feel like Im in a single player game, enjoy the change of combat etc, but still feel like I am grinding my way through the same stuff just to hit 80. I enjoy both games, and I can honestly for the first time say that I don’t enjoy WoW more than anything else. I enjoy them both about equally. I just don’t know what to do. WoW is a dying game, albeit a long ways away from dying, they just keep making too many mistakes and honestly they’ve been giving us rehashed content for 4 years.

Flame on friends, I come here to vent and to hopefully gain insight on the decision I will ultimately need to make. I enjoy both games, and don’t consider myself bias or partial one way or the other.

That’s the sad thing about these communities in MMO’s. They will attack you if you say anything negative about the game they like. I’ve stated repeatedly in this thread that I love this game BUT I am part of a minority that does.

I’m not playing any other MMO currently besides GW2 and don’t have any interest in any others. I have played them all at one point or another and aside from WoW back when I first played it in vanilla GW2 has been the most enjoyable.

People in this thread say they want numbers and proof and then when you show them metrics that can measure how interest in the game has declined dramatically they say it’s not the right kind of numbers they were looking for.

I’ve seen this SO many times before in other games. There are always some that will prefer to bury their head in the sand. I guess in hopes that they can prevent the inevitable realization by rest of the community? I’m not really sure, I don’t get the thought process.

But adding to your observations on the game I will say that a huge issue for some seems to be the lack of the trinity system. Every other MMO I can think of has had roles for players and most MMO players are accustomed to picking a class that fits that role that they enjoy playing in a dungeon/raid/pvp etc. That doesn’t exist here and I think that is turning a huge portion of the MMO crowd off.

Believe it or not people like having a specific role to play in a group setting and enjoy the reward of being responsible for healing a group or tanking a boss etc.

I have no problem saying I love this game so those of you calling me a troll for starting this thread are just flaming and trying to deflect from the real issue here which is that this game isn’t having the mass appeal it needs to have longevity in the MMO scene.

Noxu.7203:

Flyinpoons: Master Troll.

The vast majority are enjoying the game immensely.
The small minority are posting on the forums.

If you truly want to leave the game so much, you should. You aren’t gaining anything from trolling the forums, aside from a ban. Either way, your short-lived trolling isn’t going do anything other than make you look terribly desperate to push your opinion onto others.

That last sentence is truly priceless and rich in irony. The fanboy crowd in this game is the absolute worst, most brainwashed bunch I have ever seen in any so called MMO. They defend the game regardless even when people try and post constructive critisism, usually by telling people they do not understand the game, or should have read more about what they were buying, or other similar nonsense.

flyinpoons.6481:

It’s not often I am the owner of an “mmo” and I use that term loosely, that is less fun to play than to read the forum for said game.

Someone needs to play more Blizzard games.

The vast majority are enjoying the game immensely.
The small minority are posting on the forums.

Great quote. Read it over and over again spoon an diabluz

People in this thread say they want numbers and proof and then when you show them metrics that can measure how interest int he game has declined dramatically they say it’s not the right kind of numbers they were looking for. I’ve seen this SO many times before in other games. There are always some that will prefer to bury their head in the sand. I guess in hopes that they can prevent the inevitable realization by rest of the community? I’m not really sure, I don’t get the thought process.

Alright, I’ll try to clarify then.

You haven’t offered “metrics.” You pointed to Twitch.tv, which is circumstantial evidence at best, and then constructed a fallacious conclusion: “Because GW2 doesn’t show up on the most viewed channels, the game is dying.”

The problem: Your conclusion does not support your observations. The only thing you’ve conclusively proven is that GW2 is no longer among the most watched Twitch.tv channels. You haven’t proven that the game is dying or that it’s unpopular.

The other metric you’ve offered? A vague, generalized statement about how the “majority” of MMO communities hate this game. But you refuse to quantify this statement. What constitutes an MMO community? How many people have you polled? What constitutes a majority?

That’s why we’re saying you don’t have the right numbers: you either don’t provide any, or the provisions you offer are inconclusive at best and wildly exaggerated at worst. It’s not stupid to be skeptical of your claims—it’s sensible.

That’s the sad thing about these communities in MMO’s. They will attack you if you say anything negative about the game they like. There are always some that will prefer to bury their head in the sand. I guess in hopes that they can prevent the inevitable realization by rest of the community?

So, let me get this straight. We’re attacking you by being skeptical of your claims, but you calling the rest of us willfully ignorant gamers who bury our heads in the sand is somehow not attacking someone?

Believe it or not, I am intrigued by the possibility that this game is losing players. But I need data to prove it. Do you want me to just blindly believe something without data? Show me real numbers that reflect an overall trend over time in loss of activity. Don’t give me circumstantial evidence, hyperbole and hearsay that confirms your bias. I’m not attacking you. I’m challenging you to back up your anxiety with something solid.

I dont see any reason for people to be over reacting to someone who gave their opinion.

While I dont agree (and wonder why he needs to post it here), I believe just ignoring him is a better choice.

Devs dont ignore their player base, at all, we have a good response to our concerns if you check dev tracker thread. What wont hapkitten that we’ll get a new WoW remodelled. They made it quite clear.

So if you want to play a WoW “Clone” (and it’s not, but closer), you have rift. Better game mechanics, better updates and have the same game concept of Vanilla WoW.

If you want to play a completly different approach, a game that takes exploring as a central part of it’s progression added with some interesting pvp aspects like WvWvW (aion, DAoC, Warhammer) siege events, you have GW2.

Of course more could be added, more maps, more instances and even more raids with unique (and awsome) skins. But revamping this into WoW isnt going to happen.

What community are you referring too? The forum, ingame, or reviewers? If you’re referring to the forum then every game with a forum is failing and a waste of time. They are also the minority, not the majority.

Calling a 10-foot high mound of dirt a mountain doesn’t make it a mountain.

There is always a crowd of people saying Game X is dying/dead. I looked up the websites of some of those dead games last month, there were updates about new patches and new content. Obviously there are people still playing the games and people still spending money on them, or the servers would have shut down.

A handful of games have shut down, for various reasons not always because of lack of players. What’s the latest game to shut down, City of Heroes or somesuch? It seems to still have a lot of people interested in it, the game wasn’t shut down because everyone left.

Rift was pronounced DOA but it made $100 million in 10 months and they put that money back into the game to expand it faster than any other game and develop the first expansion that is about to be released. There are still people playing it and it’s still making a profit.

WoW has lost millions of players over the last year, probably more because companies often hire people who find ways to manipulate the numbers when the news is that bad. But they’ve dropped maybe 25% or more of their subscriber base. MOP isn’t selling as well as they thought, and people have already rushed through the content and started complaining they have run out of “stuff” to do. WoW is dying, obviously, and isn’t worth talking about because no one plays it any more.

Except for the 8 or 9 million who do.

People interpret things the way they want to see them. GW2 is a niche game, GW was a niche game, neither was created to appeal to the WoW-loving crowd and for the most part they don’t. But there are enough people who do not want to play WoW that these games can be successful.

The lack of a monthly fee makes the current population less important than the number of boxes sold. Anyone who has bought the game can put it down or pick it up at any time without affecting the game itself. Six months from now if people who left because of bugs or bots want to check in to see how things have improved, they can do so without paying another cent. This makes it more likely that people will return from time to time than if it was a subscription-based MMO that cost another $15 to return to for a month.

I agree twice here. I have been a hardcore raider within my MMO home of WoW since before the game went public. I’ve devoted all my time to grinding rep, grinding gear, grinding tokens, currency etc. I’ve tried kitten near every MMO to ever come out since WoW. The only thing on my mind throughout the entire process of me playing is, level cap is where the game matters, must go as fast as possible no matter what. It’s been engrained in my mind that nothing is important unless I am max level.

I think that’s ultimately where I am losing out in terms of all MMO’s, especially this one. I just wanna be max level, because that must be where the game starts. A perfect example of this is the new WoW expansion. Theres some new 1-10 content, but the entirety of the expansion is based around getting to level 90, then doing dailies and heroics till your eyes bleed, then do raids till your eyes bleed. Aside from the pet battles, and pvp, I don’t see anything else to do. Which is why I am so burnt out away from WoW right now. I have been doing it for so long, I just don’t feel like doing it anymore. I hate doing the same thing over and over and over, especially when the reward is so minimal.

In Guild Wars, the most common “complaint” I hear about is the lack of end game. Which is why I think I get so scared when pondering the possibility of engaging myself in long spells playing the game. I’m afraid the usual rushing to max level I do is going to be short-lived and pointless, then I will flock back to WoW like always.

I want to get away from WoW. I know I am a great player, and I know so much about the game, but the game is going in a direction that I feel is destined to ruin it’s fan base. The grind, that those casual players they have been catering to for so long now, is eventually going to make them burnt out and tired of doing the same quests every day. The first content patch is supposed to hit for MOP in a month or two, and guess what it’s bringing? More grindy dailies. I loved the grind back when WoW first game out, because I was in high school, and could spend all day running the same crap. I just don’t want to feel like I HAVE to logon to do my dailies everyday or I will be left out in the long run.

I do partially agree with the comment about the trinity system. I am used to rolling tank classes, first and foremost. I want to be in that role of doing what most players seem to not want to take the responsibility of. That doesn’t seem to really be there in this game, which is fine really. It just feels weird. It means I can enjoy the game more, instead of only being the meat shield.

Ideally, I think if I can make some friends in the game I will enjoy it more. I literally have no friends IRL or in game. So it’s hard for me to make friends anywhere. I try to make them in game, but the WoW community has put me off trying to be nice to people because everyone is such a selfish prick in WoW.

Hopefully, I can slowly work my way away from this addiction to WoW and finally enjoy a game that I genuinely enjoy when I am engaged in conversation and playing with others. In WoW, when you run randoms, no one talks. I try to talk and start it up, and everyone just ignores or says shut up I am only here for points.

I don’t know. I belong on an MMO, I just don’t know where anymore. I have no friends left in MMO’s, and if I know anyone on WoW, they are just biding time until something else comes out. Most people only seem to play WoW because they have nothing better to do, which is mostly why I play it. I kind of feel like for once, I have something better to do, and that is play Guild Wars. I just need to find some friends to enjoy it with.

I truly do hope this game thrives, because it seems great. It just needs some tweaks, and better PR. It offers, some pretty nice changes and changes of pace. I appreciate this community much more than any other MMO community because for the first time, I’ve offered my opinion, and thoughts and haven’t been flamed for it. It just goes to show how much the entire WoW universe is just so unhealthy and unpleasant but at the same time stubbornly engaging and encompassing.

I hope you all can understand, I don’t think OP is trying to flame the game or say the game is destined for failure. Statistically this game has been the best, or 2nd or close 3rd most successfully launched in recent memory. SWTOR is doomed, and no other MMO’s are worth mentioning. RIFT, has that niche fan base just like the original Guild Wars did, and that’s why it has so many hardcore fans. I foresee this game having that same niche, I just think some players had expectations for this as they did SWTOR and those expectations cannot be met.

Sorry for the wall of text. I have a lot weighing on my mind as of late with this which MMO do I want to play conundrum. Thanks for taking the time to read it if you do. I come here only as a neutral opinion and venter, not as a doomsayer or fanboy.

And this would be as opposed to exactly which MMO that is brought up in an MMO community and its all unicorns and rainbows?

See, the problem I see isn’t the talk about the criticisms of the game, or the negative feedback.

The problem I’m continually seeing is people declaring the game dead, that it’s a ghost town, nobody is ever playing it and so forth. If you want to make those claims, back it up with evidence and not merely hearsay.

I love reading the criticisms of the game, the things that could be improved, the things that could be fixed. I agree with quite a few of them.

The issue is that most of these threads that talk about criticisms also delve into the entire “this game is dying, the sky is falling, you failed us, you aren’t listening to us” arguments.

People need to learn to be patient to see just what ArenaNet is working on and doing. You truly can’t expect massive game-breaking changes within 2 months of an MMO’s release. You have to give it time. If you don’t like what you see in the coming months, then by all means, do the right thing for yourself and stop playing.

The bottom line is this, there’s a difference between criticism, positive / negative feedback and creating hearsay and doomsday claims just for the sake if trying to drive your point forward.

tic.7425:

And this would be as opposed to exactly which MMO that is brought up in an MMO community and its all unicorns and rainbows?

The dreamer is all about unicorns and rainbows. Lets make an MMO about that.

Also My Little Pony needs an MMO spinoff.

tolunart.2095:

Calling a 10-foot high mound of dirt a mountain doesn’t make it a mountain.

There is always a crowd of people saying Game X is dying/dead. I looked up the websites of some of those dead games last month, there were updates about new patches and new content. Obviously there are people still playing the games and people still spending money on them, or the servers would have shut down.

A handful of games have shut down, for various reasons not always because of lack of players. What’s the latest game to shut down, City of Heroes or somesuch? It seems to still have a lot of people interested in it, the game wasn’t shut down because everyone left.

Rift was pronounced DOA but it made $100 million in 10 months and they put that money back into the game to expand it faster than any other game and develop the first expansion that is about to be released. There are still people playing it and it’s still making a profit.

WoW has lost millions of players over the last year, probably more because companies often hire people who find ways to manipulate the numbers when the news is that bad. But they’ve dropped maybe 25% or more of their subscriber base. MOP isn’t selling as well as they thought, and people have already rushed through the content and started complaining they have run out of “stuff” to do. WoW is dying, obviously, and isn’t worth talking about because no one plays it any more.

Except for the 8 or 9 million who do.

People interpret things the way they want to see them. GW2 is a niche game, GW was a niche game, neither was created to appeal to the WoW-loving crowd and for the most part they don’t. But there are enough people who do not want to play WoW that these games can be successful.

The lack of a monthly fee makes the current population less important than the number of boxes sold. Anyone who has bought the game can put it down or pick it up at any time without affecting the game itself. Six months from now if people who left because of bugs or bots want to check in to see how things have improved, they can do so without paying another cent. This makes it more likely that people will return from time to time than if it was a subscription-based MMO that cost another $15 to return to for a month.

I agree with much of what you say but I will add that even though this game is buy to play with no monthly sub ArenaNet is still counting on people sticking with the game month after month to generate revenue with the gem shop. If people aren’t engaged with the game and addicted and playing often they wont be spending money in the gem shop which means ArenaNets revenue is decreased significantly. I assure you that box sales alone will not fiscally support this game.

WoW has seen so many expansions and updates because of its continued success. I guarantee you if WoW were a niche game from the beginning it would not still be around today at least not in the capacity it is today. ArenaNet needs to figure out how they’re going to make the game more appealing to the majority of MMO gamers if they have big aspirations for this game.

If we want this game to be around in 7 years time with 4 or more expansions under its belt and still be thriving it’s going to take a lot more mass appeal than it has now.

The best part about GW2 is that it isn’t GW.
The worst part about GW2 is that it isn’t GW.

IMO, it was a little overhyped as well, which is feeding part of the negitivity. It was supposed to be the WoW killer, and while it might end up being a piece of the puzzle, it isn’t the one game that will topple wow.

flyinpoons.6481:

Halloween event is a major content update? LOL you people are easy to please.

PvP Paid Tournaments

Tyria Evolving

The world continues to evolve with new events, jumping puzzles, bosses, mini-dungeons, and achievements appearing across a variety of maps.

It is a content update along with a holiday. Shocking I know….

Will it be good? You nor I can say.

diabluz.2860:

There is a TON of negativity in the MMO community towards this game.

When you say the MMO ‘community’, do you mean people who post on gaming forums and websites?

Past history has shown that they (and we) are a small percent of the actual playerbase of an MMO. Posters on website forums tend to be more vocal and dedicated. I wouldn’t worry about negativity. It is the Internet afterall.

TheFatness.5072:

I agree twice here. I have been a hardcore raider within my MMO home of WoW since before the game went public. I’ve devoted all my time to grinding rep, grinding gear, grinding tokens, currency etc. I’ve tried kitten near every MMO to ever come out since WoW. The only thing on my mind throughout the entire process of me playing is, level cap is where the game matters, must go as fast as possible no matter what. It’s been engrained in my mind that nothing is important unless I am max level.

I think that’s ultimately where I am losing out in terms of all MMO’s, especially this one. I just wanna be max level, because that must be where the game starts. A perfect example of this is the new WoW expansion. Theres some new 1-10 content, but the entirety of the expansion is based around getting to level 90, then doing dailies and heroics till your eyes bleed, then do raids till your eyes bleed. Aside from the pet battles, and pvp, I don’t see anything else to do. Which is why I am so burnt out away from WoW right now. I have been doing it for so long, I just don’t feel like doing it anymore. I hate doing the same thing over and over and over, especially when the reward is so minimal.

I want to get away from WoW. I know I am a great player, and I know so much about the game, but the game is going in a direction that I feel is destined to ruin it’s fan base. The grind, that those casual players they have been catering to for so long now, is eventually going to make them burnt out and tired of doing the same quests every day. The first content patch is supposed to hit for MOP in a month or two, and guess what it’s bringing? More grindy dailies. I loved the grind back when WoW first game out, because I was in high school, and could spend all day running the same crap. I just don’t want to feel like I HAVE to logon to do my dailies everyday or I will be left out in the long run.

Ideally, I think if I can make some friends in the game I will enjoy it more. I literally have no friends IRL or in game. So it’s hard for me to make friends anywhere. I try to make them in game, but the WoW community has put me off trying to be nice to people because everyone is such a selfish prick in WoW.

I don’t know. I belong on an MMO, I just don’t know where anymore. I have no friends left in MMO’s, and if I know anyone on WoW, they are just biding time until something else comes out. Most people only seem to play WoW because they have nothing better to do, which is mostly why I play it. I kind of feel like for once, I have something better to do, and that is play Guild Wars. I just need to find some friends to enjoy it with.

I hope you all can understand, I don’t think OP is trying to flame the game or say the game is destined for failure. Statistically this game has been the best, or 2nd or close 3rd most successfully launched in recent memory. SWTOR is doomed, and no other MMO’s are worth mentioning. RIFT, has that niche fan base just like the original Guild Wars did, and that’s why it has so many hardcore fans. I foresee this game having that same niche, I just think some players had expectations for this as they did SWTOR and those expectations cannot be met.

I’m sure that there are some people here in this thread that have guilds that would be more than happy to have you. I have found that the community in this game (not on the forums) does seem to be fairly nice and a little more mature than some other games.

I started playing Wow in vanilla as well and I never at the time had this rush to get to cap. The games leveling was slower and more tedious back then for sure and often times frustrating but the game at that time was more about the entire game rather than just the last 2 percent. I agree that this rush to cap to park and raid mentality ruins MMO’s and in my opinion what destroyed the experience of WoW for me.

I tired of WoW long ago and couldn’t even bear to log into the game anymore. It got so bad that as soon as I would see that loading screen and hear the music I would start cringing. The game just became so laborious and not fun. Everything had been seen and it was all way too familiar. The only thing that kept me as long as I was there was nostalgia quite frankly and after Cata trashed all the old zones that was gone. WoW is old and tired and nothing could ever make me enjoy that game again.

Noxu.7203:

See, the problem I see isn’t the talk about the criticisms of the game, or the negative feedback.

The problem I’m continually seeing is people declaring the game dead, that it’s a ghost town, nobody is ever playing it and so forth. If you want to make those claims, back it up with evidence and not merely hearsay.

Actually GW2 should be losing players, at least some. Most games get a lot of players when they release and them hemorrhage some of that player base. No game has a 100% retention rate, not even EVE or WoW. I think for most people, they’ve stopped playing or stopped seeing people playing like it was opening weekend and declared the game dead.

Whether it is a problem or not remains to be seen.

diabluz.2860:

They usually seem to dislike the leveling and say it’s boring, grindy and monotonous. I’ve heard complaints that it’s “not fun” and there’s “no end game”.

Thoughts?

Completely disagree that leveling is boring/grindy/monotonous – in fact, it’s more fun to level in this game than any other MMO out there I’ve tried. Having said that, the “end game” and feeling of character progression post-80 are severely lacking.

Noxu.7203:

The bottom line is this, there’s a difference between criticism, positive / negative feedback and creating hearsay and doomsday claims just for the sake if trying to drive your point forward.

Well said! Agree 100%

flyinpoons.6481:

The fanboy crowd in this game is the absolute worst, most brainwashed bunch I have ever seen in any so called MMO. They defend the game regardless even when people try and post constructive critisism, usually by telling people they do not understand the game, or should have read more about what they were buying, or other similar nonsense.

Posting that you don’t like the game is not constructive criticism, it is posting your opinion. You are free to do that but the game is not going to change to fit your personal wants and desires particularly when there ARE players out there who are enjoying it just fine.

Take Noxu’s advice, if you’re not enjoying the game just chalk it up to a bad purchase. We’ve all had that happen with video games. But posting your opinions isn’t going to convince anyone who actually enjoying the game (and that doesn’t mean we’re ‘brainwashed’ it means we have different definition of ‘fun’ than you.)

I’m in erradon terrace.

Pretty much nobody is playing WvW right now. Just went to sPvP and the pick up game list only has about 25% of the servers filled and I’m having a hard time doing DE’s because there’s nobody around to help do them.

Is it just because I’m playing at a time that just isn’t that populated?

diabluz.2860:

I agree with much of what you say but I will add that even though this game is buy to play with no monthly sub ArenaNet is still counting on people sticking with the game month after month to generate revenue with the gem shop. If people aren’t engaged with the game and addicted and playing often they wont be spending money in the gem shop which means ArenaNets revenue is decreased significantly. I assure you that box sales alone will not fiscally support this game.

Games with cash shop sales work on a different business model than subscription-based games. This is why games that don’t have a strong monthly sub base can survive by going F2P and opening a cash shop. Out of 1000 players, the vast majority, say 900 just for purposes of an example, will not spend a dime in the shop. Of the remaining 100, another 90 will spend a few bux now and then, but not enough to really matter. Of the remaining 10, 8 or 9 will spend about the amount of a monthly sub, $15 to $20 each month, and the remaining 1 or 2 players will spend hundreds to thousands of dollars on cash shop items.

It’s the last few players, the ones who spend $20 every month, or spend $100s to $1000s every year, that keeps the games afloat. This is approximately 1% of the player base.

The people who come to the forums yelling that they spent $60 on the game and therefore they have the right to issue orders to the devs are not these people. They want to keep the big spenders happy, not the cheapskate complainers they aren’t going to make any more cash from.

As for the niche game thing, GW is a niche game that has several successful expansions and continues to be popular today. GW2 wouldn’t exist if the original wasn’t so successful. So don’t give up on GW2 so quickly…

“That’s the sad thing about these communities in MMO’s. They will attack you if you say anything negative about the game they like. I’ve stated repeatedly in this thread that I love this game BUT I am part of a minority that does.

I’m not playing any other MMO currently besides GW2 and don’t have any interest in any others. I have played them all at one point or another and aside from WoW back when I first played it in vanilla GW2 has been the most enjoyable."

We told you many times to show your sources, other than WoW players who are mad that GW2 got extremely popular reviews among those who like gaming in general. You said your friends. You then come back after many other posts and say the exact same thing again. That is like me going on WoW and saying I am the minority of those who like it. Do you want me to list all the positive reviews? Also I could have sworn that a ton of MMOs have been shot down by the WoW fanbase. In fact. WoW is rarely even mentioned in game on my server and it is a full server. It is only on the forums where the actual minority (those who dislike the game) come on and claim all the fanboys are attacking them, ect. Want me to list all the MMO’s WoW players have tried their hardest to push down a hole and pretend never existed?

fellyn.5083:

In every single mmo that has come out since WoW people always claim an mmo is failing or dead no less than 2 weeks after it’s initial launch. The thing is no one who made that claim has ever been right yet. Unless we’re talking about FF14.

well, ACTUALLY… WAR, AoC, and I dunno if you’d count them but Hellgate:London and Diablo 3.
All of them were obviously not going to do very well after just a short time experiencing them, and none of them failed to meet that expectation of failure.

I am an old bitter and jaded malcontent. I hate everything.

This game’s not half bad, and is, and will be, doing fine for quite some time to come.

Sure, I even have guildies who have quit GW2, actually quite some time ago already. Frankly? Good riddance. They wanted a grind, they wanted timesinks, they wanted to be able to spend more time than other people playing the game so they could get ahead on the gear treadmill and let their playtime win fights their skill couldn’t.

There’s plenty of games like that on the market. Point to another one like GW2.

Go play Progress Quest if you find GW2’s endgame lacking — I think it would be more your style.

GW2’s endgame is exactly what I have been waiting for for years.

The fanboy crowd in this game is the absolute worst, most brainwashed bunch I have ever seen in any so called MMO. They defend the game regardless even when people try and post constructive critisism, usually by telling people they do not understand the game, or should have read more about what they were buying, or other similar nonsense.

Probably because all the “problems” you people keep bringing up are precisely the things the rest of us LIKE about this game — the things that separate it from all the other PvE carebear grindfest timesink gear treadmill boring-as-poop MMOs on the market.

If we want this game to be around in 7 years time with 4 or more expansions under its belt and still be thriving it’s going to take a lot more mass appeal than it has now.

Nope, don’t want it. Don’t want it because when you say “mass appeal”, what you mean is “all those idiotic features of MMOs that I, warmonkey, cannot stand”.

You can take your rep grinding and tiered content and just go, I won’t miss it one bit.

Winterclaw.4273:

Actually GW2 should be losing players, at least some. Most games get a lot of players when they release and them hemorrhage some of that player base. No game has a 100% retention rate, not even EVE or WoW. I think for most people, they’ve stopped playing or stopped seeing people playing like it was opening weekend and declared the game dead.

Whether it is a problem or not remains to be seen.

Oh, I agree entirely. I’ve been playing MMO’s since about 2004. I know how it goes. Will people leave the game after playing it to test it out? Of course! I will even admit I’ve done the same.

But to claim the entire game is dying because of that is just, well, it doesn’t help provide a meaningful discussion about the actual issues that are a part of the game. It detracts from the issues and gives others’ the wrong impression.

The guild I was a part of, they started out playing the game and a lot were enjoying it. After the first month or so, sure, they stopped playing and went to other games, but I’ve met many other people that have been playing the game since release and have yet to even put it down.

There’s always the other side of the coin that some people don’t look at, and that’s just not helpful when it comes to discussing the game. People see what they see, and they proclaim that as fact, but because they don’t see the other side of things, they proclaim it’s dying or dead.

But see? This discussion right now is detracting from the actual issues of the game, so I’ll stop derailing the thread more. =p

Real evidence to back up these claims does not exist. Most MMOs do not release moment-to-moment subscriber data nor do they publish activity records that show how often their subscribers log on or how long they spend in the game.

The company itself has these records, however, and they know when activity surges or drops. They have a much better idea of how things are going with the game than any player.

Because you don’t need a subscription to play the game, except for banned accounts everyone who has purchased the game has an account whether they log in every week, every month, or uninstalled the game and forgot about it. This makes “subscriber” or member information useless, there are over 2 million GW2 accounts and unless there are some extreme mass bannings the number will only increase over time.

The day-to-day in-game population, however, varies greatly and will surge when new content is released, such as the Halloween update, or when an expansion is released. Players taking a break from the game is expected and accounted for by Arenanet, as are surges of activity when things are added or changed.

I don’t like other MMOs and I do like GW2. Even before launch I expected a huge amount of the standard MMO audience to disappear within one or two months because I figured that any game that is making me happy couldn’t possibly make them happy. The population is fantastically higher than I was expecting it to be at this point. Something to keep in mind though is that the players have spread out since the first couple of weeks. At that point everyone was packed like sardines into the lowbie zones. Now they’re in all of them and Lion’s Arch. Plus, lots of folks who have reached max level are just doing PVP and aren’t out in the zones at all anymore, except perhaps when waiting on queues.

TheFatness.5072:

However, I feel inclined to be on WoW because I know that game like the back of my hand, and I know everything about it. With Guild Wars, I unfortunately see tons of forum posts about how bad it is, no end game, etc.

Play what’s fun to you. Don’t let other people’s perspectives overrule yours. Other people’s complaints shouldn’t matter to you, only your own. It’s understandable for you to want to stick with what you know and are good at. You just have to decide if it’s worth it to you to go through the entire acclimation process with another game. Eventually you will have to do so or stop playing because no MMO will last forever.

I also feel as though I am sort of playing a single player game, because sure I always see people, but no one ever talks, etc. Maybe it’s because I am on a lower pop server, or it’s because my guild is super inactive.

This is an aspect of the fundamental design philosophy of the game that is going to divide people. It is not a single player game if other people are playing, period. It may not be the kind of multiplayer you like but it is perfect for me. As far as people talking, you pretty much have to find a guild you like or make a really strong effort to meet people. Just understand that this game strongly appeals to people like me who don’t want to talk, and the pinball aspect of “event, event, event, event” with this game’s style of active combat means that people have less time to type. Most are probably using vent.

SWTOR sold just as many copies if not more than GW2 at launch and that game is heading down a dark path right now. The heads of Bioware left the company because of how badly everything is going.

SWTOR was brutally mismanaged. It didn’t start bleeding subs until the game-breaking updates started being pushed out. Early on it held onto an abnormally large percentage of its player base, considering its monthly sub and how many features it went live without. The first two updates really sent folks packing.

Then the forum posts, and the fear of the game having no future come into my head.

The idea of the game having no future is such an absurdly premature concept that it’s truly laughable. I mean, it’s possible, but based on nothing whatsoever. It hasn’t even had its first major game update yet. Furthermore, it doesn’t rely upon a monthly sub from its subscribers.

On the other hand, I fear not being good enough to strive in GW2 like I do in WoW. I am a beast tank on all the tank classes in WoW. I don’t PvP because I am filthy awful at it. That’s one of the biggest fears I have with GW2. What if I suck at this game in PvP like I do in WoW? I will never be accepted into most communities, because GW2 is all about PvP. It’s been that way since GW1.

Do WvW, which is relatively low-pressure since a lot of it is zerging, and get your bearings. There’s more to do in it than just zergs but until you know what’s going on your server needs warm bodies regardless of skill. There’s nothing you can mess up really that will make things worse for them than if you weren’t there, especially if you focus on lower-populated borderland maps. See if any of them don’t have a queue, and then you know you’re not taking the spot someone better could, if that even matters to you. It really doesn’t though, as there’s always going to be non-PVPers there taking up space doing their world completion POIs and vistas.

As far as I’ve seen the community here is pretty chill and since the gear ceiling is fairly low and there is no dps-tank-healer trinity it’s a lot less common to pull elitist crap on folks.

Oh, and to OP: extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. “The game is unpopular/ dying” is an extraordinary claim. Your evidence is not extraordinary. I can be convinced of your viewpoint but it will require more than what you have presented. Especially since your anecdotal evidence is no more valuable than mine, which contradicts yours.

We won’t know the overall success of Guild Wars 2 until NCSoft releases their earnings report. Success is not measured in number of players, it’s measured in dollars (or in Korean won). The number of people playing the game is only tangentially related to how much money is being brought in, as was pointed out earlier in the thread.

If I were a gambler, I’d bet that GW2 was a solid success, and will continue to be in the 4th quarter.

tolunart.2095:

Real evidence to back up these claims does not exist. Most MMOs do not release moment-to-moment subscriber data nor do they publish activity records that show how often their subscribers log on or how long they spend in the game.

The company itself has these records, however, and they know when activity surges or drops. They have a much better idea of how things are going with the game than any player.

Because you don’t need a subscription to play the game, except for banned accounts everyone who has purchased the game has an account whether they log in every week, every month, or uninstalled the game and forgot about it. This makes “subscriber” or member information useless, there are over 2 million GW2 accounts and unless there are some extreme mass bannings the number will only increase over time.

The day-to-day in-game population, however, varies greatly and will surge when new content is released, such as the Halloween update, or when an expansion is released. Players taking a break from the game is expected and accounted for by Arenanet, as are surges of activity when things are added or changed.

Who are you arguing with? Yourself?

To you and the others that claim there is no evidence I say, do you feel then that poll data on any subject whether they be elections or any other matter aren’t valid because it’s just a sampling?

You guys do realize right that polls and metrics etc are a sampling of a community used to extrapolate a conclusion/trend.

I have told you of at least two online sources of metrics to gauge interest in GW2, Twitch, and Xsplit. There are also others that people here have mentioned such as Reddit, Twitter etc. These sources are good enough for many businesses to use as a basis for their bottom lines and steer the direction of their future products/services.

Why are they not good enough for you?

Because they don’t support the answer you want?

Quality discussion in some parts of this thread. I love it, it only is making me more and more compelled to play this game. Even with all the naysayers, and trolls, and QQ’ing, the community in this game is still better.

diabluz.2860:

Taihaku.8412:

This thread isn’t constructive to the game and all it is doing is asking for flamebait. The OP is obviously a troll and this thread should be deleted.

Any discussion relating to Guild Wars 2 is “constructive to the game”. This is the Guild Wars 2 discussion forum and that is what we are doing, discussing Guild Wars 2. This is not the suggestions forum.

Stop trying to be a forum Nazi. What you say is not golden here and no more important than anyone else.

How is “This game has low viewers on twitchtv and some guys in another mmo said GW2 sucks!” constructive?

diabluz.2860:

Taihaku.8412:

This thread isn’t constructive to the game and all it is doing is asking for flamebait. The OP is obviously a troll and this thread should be deleted.

Any discussion relating to Guild Wars 2 is “constructive to the game”. This is the Guild Wars 2 discussion forum and that is what we are doing, discussing Guild Wars 2. This is not the suggestions forum.

Stop trying to be a forum Nazi. What you say is not golden here and no more important than anyone else.

He is correct. What is it you are intending to discuss in this thread ultimately? How does any content in this thready have potential to improve the quality of the game? Nothing seems productive as of yet.

diabluz.2860:

Who are you arguing with? Yourself?

To you and the others that claim there is no evidence I say, do you feel then that poll data on any subject whether they be elections or any other matter aren’t valid because it’s just a sampling?

I’m certainly not going to argue with you…

Personally I am very wary of people using poll numbers to prove their points. Data needs to be interpreted to be useful, and there are many supposedly scientific studies that contradict each other because of the way the data was collected and interpreted.

I saw something the other day about how even though the US election is weeks away, a number of states have already been “called” for one candidate or another. How can they declare so-and-so won the election in a particular state before the election has even taken place?

Anyway, you are extrapolating results from incomplete data. Because you do not have access to the real numbers that Arenanet has, there is no way to prove your points. Thus, I won’t argue with you, you don’t have a point to argue against, just an opinion.

muthax.4720:

Algreg.3629:

diabluz.2860:

Tirien.1326:

See what you are doing OP it’s fairly obvious.

If gw1 worked, gw2 will work aswell. No worries, i usually don’t care what other people say, i’m afterall strong not weak Cough.

It’s very rare that a game dies, look around you so many games that have been “dead” since release and yet are still here. Why bother to speculate, you have no idea what will happen next week let alone a few years from now. But gw1 has been with us for 7 years, and gw2 with its hype and amazing gameplay/PvP it will be with us for atleast 10 years, why not you know.. just go with it.

Speculate all you want, but if gw1 managed gw2 will manage… Since most people like this game i see nothing to be worried about.

That is where you are so totally wrong. Most people don’t like this game. Most people actually find this game boring and have left. Hence the title of the thread, Welcome to the Minority.

when you look around here, apparently the people who think this game sucks haven´t left at all, but seem rather addicted to this forum.

That’s the single biggest failure of the B2P model. Wowtards quit but keep on trolling for free…

You actually cannot forum post anymore without a paid subscription. I’ve tried multiple times.

Taihaku.8412:

diabluz.2860:

Taihaku.8412:

This thread isn’t constructive to the game and all it is doing is asking for flamebait. The OP is obviously a troll and this thread should be deleted.

Any discussion relating to Guild Wars 2 is “constructive to the game”. This is the Guild Wars 2 discussion forum and that is what we are doing, discussing Guild Wars 2. This is not the suggestions forum.

Stop trying to be a forum Nazi. What you say is not golden here and no more important than anyone else.

How is “This game has low viewers on twitchtv and some guys in another mmo said GW2 sucks!” constructive?

It is shocking. I think he has convinced himself that he is contributing to the game with this badly hidden rant/whine/doomsaying.