Guild Wars 2

Skan.5301:

Note: I’m not saying Tobias is right or wrong. Basically, it’s what he thinks and he’s given examples of why.

Thanks I’ve done it way too many times trying to analyze over whether there were lies, darned lies, statistics, whatever and finding all claims lacking. I took this one a little less than seriously because, well . . .

. . . why take the argument seriously when I reviewed the video twice and it uses a whole lot of soft and subjective things said in it over hard facts/promises?

Indeed. And almost on par with what I’ve said a few times. Even though I’m part of the group that was let down by the Manifesto, it’s written using soft wording that can easily be interpreted many different ways.

Like those who say “I’ve know what the Manifesto was saying the first time I saw it” most likely had no idea of the future much like those who say “THE MANIFESTO SAID THIS AND LIED /backstabbed”.

Different interpretations, and there’s nothing to be done. Useless arguing that leads to nowhere.

Skan.5301:

Indeed. And almost on par with what I’ve said a few times. Even though I’m part of the group that was let down by the Manifesto, it’s written using soft wording that can easily be interpreted many different ways.

Like those who say “I’ve know what the Manifesto was saying the first time I saw it” most likely had no idea of the future much like those who say “THE MANIFESTO SAID THIS AND LIED /backstabbed”.

Different interpretations, and there’s nothing to be done. Useless arguing that leads to nowhere.

I do know what it was saying when I saw it, which wound up being a whole lot of “here’s what we want to do”. And I said to several people “now let’s see if they can do it”.

Even though I knew, really deep down, that “permanent mark on the world” remark was going to come back to bite them hard. So was the reference call to GW1, if only because there were a lot of different things people loved about that game. Can’t get them all.

Skan.5301:

Indeed. And almost on par with what I’ve said a few times. Even though I’m part of the group that was let down by the Manifesto, it’s written using soft wording that can easily be interpreted many different ways.

Like those who say “I’ve know what the Manifesto was saying the first time I saw it” most likely had no idea of the future much like those who say “THE MANIFESTO SAID THIS AND LIED /backstabbed”.

Different interpretations, and there’s nothing to be done. Useless arguing that leads to nowhere.

It is pretty much useless arguments but it has lasted a huge number of threads and 13 pages of this one. People take great joy in stating and re-stating their beliefs.

Maybe so.

Either way, when everything’s said and done, this topic doesn’t move anything forward and becomes a standstill, slowly becoming stagnant and a boring topic to get involved in.

Skan.5301:

Maybe so.

Either way, when everything’s said and done, this topic doesn’t move anything forward and becomes a standstill, slowly becoming stagnant and a boring topic to get involved in.

yes

Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1 and puts it into a persistent world that’s got more active combat

Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1 and puts it into a persistent world

everything you love about Guild Wars 1

everything you love

That was a hell of a vague statement, and the problem arises from every individuals interpretation of what that meant. I took it to mean that the vast majority of the game would be end game level and that the run up to that level would be relatively short compared to the majority of MMOs on the market. That it would have diverse and engaging PvP options, the pinnacle of the market. That BiS if visually plain gear would be abundant and easily attained. That character builds would require choices and be diverse and engaging. When they didn’t deliver on these, it disappointed me, as they were things I loved about GW1. For other people I’m sure it was the same disappointment for different reasons.

#World of Mist Wars?

I’m a casual player and i don’t think i need grind some content to have better gear/weapons/items here. I’ve played some Mmo’s and all of them i need to grind. Wasn’t accepted if i hadn’t the top gear, countless hours just to get 1 piece of armor(absolete moths later), in instances that require a tank, healer and a dps minimun. Too much time wasted searching for a tank or healer, and need to be a good one or else… etc etc.
Here i can be out of game months and i can still play, without worry, all the final content I WANT. I know, some are easy, other harder without some gear or traits, but i’m not so limited by gear to do what I WANT. If i want play PvP/WvW, i can do it when i buy the game and not several weeks later (because the level or other requirement).
Fractals, Dungeons, Pve events, Personal history, Bosses, SPvP, WvW, Guild missions, Activities, Living Story, etc etc…
Economy are granted for now with the gold sinks (people don’t get it -.-u)
New content and sometimes features, every two weeks. Awesome. Don’t like LS, well, it’s not required. Play one of others things you can play in GW2.

Some bugs are yet to resolve, is true. SPvp still far from the max potencial. etc etc
This game is far from perfect because all the things we can play, its insane.
The truth is: “There will always be someone complaining”. It’s good because you can show what you want better, its show that you care about the game. But complain with some sense.
This is a game who tries please various types of players, noobs, casual, experts. Not only one group.
I expect more from GW2 because the potencial and the door ANET open with this game. ANET cant go back now is becaming deaf because players dont know how to complain/suggest. It’s only noise.
With this, valid points are ignored too.
It’s a shame.

If on going to town and your bf says get a movie with an action hero, you know i love those sort of films, and you bring back the pacifier saying it has vin diesel in it, ill bet their wee face would be tripping them and they would voice a complaint or two, we really cant fault peeps who watched the manifesto and wonder why gw2 was even called gw2 when it has almost nothing from gw1 in it.

EDIT: Had to edit as i missed hero

mesme.5028:

If on going to town and your bf says get a movie with an action, you know i love those sort of films, and you bring back the pacifier saying it has vin diesel in it, ill bet their wee face would be tripping them and they would voice a complaint or two, we really cant fault peeps who watched the manifesto and wonder why gw2 was even called gw2 when it has almost nothing from gw1 in it.

If on going to down, your friend says “get a movie with action” and you bring back The Pacifier, you deserve to be locked out until you bring back Shoot Em Up.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

mesme.5028:

If on going to town and your bf says get a movie with an action, you know i love those sort of films, and you bring back the pacifier saying it has vin diesel in it, ill bet their wee face would be tripping them and they would voice a complaint or two, we really cant fault peeps who watched the manifesto and wonder why gw2 was even called gw2 when it has almost nothing from gw1 in it.

If on going to down, your friend says “get a movie with action” and you bring back The Pacifier, you deserve to be locked out until you bring back Shoot Em Up.

Yeah i had to edit, i missed hero lol.

mesme.5028:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

mesme.5028:

If on going to town and your bf says get a movie with an action, you know i love those sort of films, and you bring back the pacifier saying it has vin diesel in it, ill bet their wee face would be tripping them and they would voice a complaint or two, we really cant fault peeps who watched the manifesto and wonder why gw2 was even called gw2 when it has almost nothing from gw1 in it.

If on going to down, your friend says “get a movie with action” and you bring back The Pacifier, you deserve to be locked out until you bring back Shoot Em Up.

Yeah i had to edit, i missed hero lol.

Point still stands I mean, you could also go wrong and pick up The Sixth Sense because it has Bruce Willis. Sure, it’s still a decent movie . . . with an “action star”, but not what your friend thought they were going to get.

It’s not as bad as telling someone “just get a comedy” and seeing them hold up Meet the Spartans. (Yes. This has happened. We are not friends anymore.)

I’ve wondered that about a lot of Arena net’s decisions. From the grind for items, to the baseless nerfs to satisfy whiners, to not allowing adjustable FOV (and outright attacking people who dared ask for it), to the location they chose to put the camera, to running solely on DX9, to the lack of endgame reward for finishing the personal story… They make a lot of weird choices. The only choice of theirs which I can really say I am glad they made was the business model of buy once and play forever.

Yargesh.4965:

Skan.5301:

Maybe so.

Either way, when everything’s said and done, this topic doesn’t move anything forward and becomes a standstill, slowly becoming stagnant and a boring topic to get involved in.

yes

Yet, you’re both still here, bumping it.

I believe that the manifesto is for the most part subjective. The few parts of it that can be objectively assessed may or may not still be true. However, people aren’t talking about those, they’re talking about the subjective stuff. This tells me that people are disappointed. I’m in favor of people airing their disappointment and saying why. It would be better if they focused on those issues rather than the so-called manifesto — largely because discussions of the manifesto are unproductive.

Neither my or your objections are likely to affect this trend, though.

I wonder what lovely new grind (I mean content) we have in store after the end of LS season one.

I read through quite a bit of this thread, and while I love opinionated passionate people who freely express their ideas, but if you can’t even recognize that this game shatters the promises made to those of us who paid for it, then we have nothing to discuss because you can’t argue with crazy.

Aidenwolf.5964:

I wonder what lovely new grind (I mean content) we have in store after the end of LS season one.

I read through quite a bit of this thread, and while I love opinionated passionate people who freely express their ideas, but if you can’t even recognize that this game shatters the promises made to those of us who paid for it, then we have nothing to discuss because you can’t argue with crazy.

Hey, thanks for calling me crazy, it’s been two days since someone did that because we didn’t agree. (thumbs-up)

I’ll note, they didn’t promise anything major which I feel was broken. Well, except for "you’re going to really enjoy WvW’. That’s usually a matter of whether or not I’m playing on off-peak hours or somewhat normal times.

Really, they didn’t come to me personally and make promises and assurances about this game. They put out press releases and interviews with people, and you know what? They kinda hit on target for some of it when I tried Beta Weekend Event 2, and there was a lot of promise and potential even when Lost Shores hit if their hardware hadn’t gone and fallen apart on them.

So it’s kind of hard for me to take anything personal about this game. I don’t feel they betrayed anything. I feel they could do better with some things but I also recognize how those ideas of “better” probably aren’t the same between them and I . . . or the rest of the players and I.

I don’t feel betrayed, but I do feel disappointed.

Whether it’s because they made statements that I misinterpreted or they made statement that they later turned their back on is irrelevant. As I will say everytime this comes up. It’s a waste of time to debate the manifesto.

Maybe the thread should be renamed to “What happened to the prelaunch interview promises” because I think that might be more important.

Such as, what happened to the mobile apps, the horizontal progression, the promises of combat being diverse and exciting, there not being a gear grind for the top tier gear, that balance would be the focus between classes (where it’s repeated on the main page about how no class should suffer in combat as their clear design focus in balancing the classes)….

need I say more.

(oh and I DO mean those that were being talked about during the BWE’s right up until launch day not those from years ago during the early stages of design. The ones I watched and read were made right up until launch day and were a major factor in the purchase for many of us)

tigirius.9014:

Maybe the thread should be renamed to “What happened to the prelaunch interview promises” because I think that might be more important.

Such as, what happened to the mobile apps, the horizontal progression, the promises of combat being diverse and exciting, there not being a gear grind for the top tier gear, that balance would be the focus between classes (where it’s repeated on the main page about how no class should suffer in combat as their clear design focus in balancing the classes)….

need I say more.

(oh and I DO mean those that were being talked about during the BWE’s right up until launch day not those from years ago during the early stages of design. The ones I watched and read were made right up until launch day and were a major factor in the purchase for many of us)

People keep forgetting it wasnt just the manifesto. It was barely the tip of an iceberg. There were numerous interviews and articles but the most detailed info came straight from ANETs blog posts:
http://web.archive.org/web/20130201042944/http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success

Agreed, SonicTHI and Tigirius.

People who are unhappy with the big change in vision that happened after launch need to stop bringing up the Manifesto. The Manifesto itself is too general to provide decent discussion, and conversation centered on it just devolves into a discussion about what was meant by “grind”, which goes no where.

It’s a lot bigger than the Manifesto. A vision of the game was presented through countless blog posts, interviews, and developer comments. Most of the really exciting stuff, the things that made me and many others talk up the game on fora, has been abandoned, indefinitely postponed, or outright changed.

Eventually, those of us who were excited about what ArenaNet wanted to do will disappear and stop bringing this stuff up, but for those who are still clinging to those grand ideas and hoping that somehow ArenaNet can be convinced to steer the game back that direction, it would be best to abandon the Manifesto, and focus on the more detailed elements that were presented to us.

Of course, Vayne will still be here to remind us that those posts were made over a year and a half ago, so they are too old to matter, and that things change. But at least we can point to some things that are a little more concrete as a reminder that at one point we agreed with ArenaNet’s direction for the game, and some of us were even its original white knights.