Guild Wars 2

Seriously?! Almost 10000 views, 251 comments, nearly 2 pages of suggestions by me and nothing?! Not a single dev wants to talk to the community? Please, walk the way of Microsoft, Arena.NET, let’s see how much good it does you.

From me, farewell. This was my attempt to help the game grow and since no one on your team figured it’s worthy of attention, then I’ll just give up. Enjoy your burning wreck while it lasts.

Insignya.8625:

Seriously?! Almost 10000 views, 251 comments, nearly 2 pages of suggestions by me and nothing?! Not a single dev wants to talk to the community? Please, walk the way of Microsoft, Arena.NET, let’s see how much good it does you.

Why would A.net post in a troll thread in the first place? And if walking in the shoes of Microsoft means making millions of dollars and becoming the #1 online company … would that be bad? What brand of operating system are you using exactly?

From me, farewell. This was my attempt to help the game grow and since no one on your team figured it’s worthy of attention, then I’ll just give up. Enjoy your burning wreck while it lasts.

Entitled?

See you in game. No one who makes a leaving thread ever leaves. People who leave simply leave. You care too much and that’s why you make the ultimate comment. What would A.net see if they check your log in details today, tomorrow, in 2 months? Exactly … you’ll be playing. Actions speak louder than words.

Insignya.8625:

Seriously?! Almost 10000 views, 251 comments, nearly 2 pages of suggestions by me and nothing?! Not a single dev wants to talk to the community? Please, walk the way of Microsoft, Arena.NET, let’s see how much good it does you.

It’s nice how highly you think of yourself. Yes, devs normally don’t answer. Most of the times they’re not able to, other times answering forum posts is simply not their job.

marnick.4305:

Insignya.8625:

Seriously?! Almost 10000 views, 251 comments, nearly 2 pages of suggestions by me and nothing?! Not a single dev wants to talk to the community? Please, walk the way of Microsoft, Arena.NET, let’s see how much good it does you.

Why would A.net post in a troll thread in the first place? And if walking in the shoes of Microsoft means making millions of dollars and becoming the #1 online company … would that be bad? What brand of operating system are you using exactly?

From me, farewell. This was my attempt to help the game grow and since no one on your team figured it’s worthy of attention, then I’ll just give up. Enjoy your burning wreck while it lasts.

Entitled?

See you in game. No one who makes a leaving thread ever leaves. People who leave simply leave. You care too much and that’s why you make the ultimate comment. What would A.net see if they check your log in details today, tomorrow, in 2 months? Exactly … you’ll be playing. Actions speak louder than words.

This is a troll thread? This was me spending an hour telling Arena.NET why my friends and so many others left. I was never disrespectful: all I wanted was for the community to gather and explain to the team the issues that plague GW2. And yet still, people started lecturing others on how to construct paragraphs or how, “technically”, the manifesto is true today. Our criticism isn’t trolling – derailing the thread into pointless, personal attacks is.

Oh, you bet I’m leaving. There’s nothing left here to motivate me to keep going. All my friends left and as reward I get to buy RNG boxes and grind candy for the next carrot on a stick. If I wanted that I’d hop on some Korean MMO and do the same thing with better-looking character models. Guild Wars 2 was unique, that’s why I joined, that’s why I encouraged so many friends to join. Arena.NET had a chance to create a next-gen MMO, but ultimately they butchered the game, either due to their own greed or NCsoft’s. I have nothing to say to the people who live in denial. If this game interests you, go ahead and play it. It’s obvious who the development team would rather listen to and, much as it hurts me, I’m incapable of changing it and I no longer want to change it.

Insignya.8625:

marnick.4305:

Insignya.8625:

Seriously?! Almost 10000 views, 251 comments, nearly 2 pages of suggestions by me and nothing?! Not a single dev wants to talk to the community? Please, walk the way of Microsoft, Arena.NET, let’s see how much good it does you.

Why would A.net post in a troll thread in the first place? And if walking in the shoes of Microsoft means making millions of dollars and becoming the #1 online company … would that be bad? What brand of operating system are you using exactly?

From me, farewell. This was my attempt to help the game grow and since no one on your team figured it’s worthy of attention, then I’ll just give up. Enjoy your burning wreck while it lasts.

Entitled?

See you in game. No one who makes a leaving thread ever leaves. People who leave simply leave. You care too much and that’s why you make the ultimate comment. What would A.net see if they check your log in details today, tomorrow, in 2 months? Exactly … you’ll be playing. Actions speak louder than words.

This is a troll thread? This was me spending an hour telling Arena.NET why my friends and so many others left. I was never disrespectful: all I wanted was for the community to gather and explain to the team the issues that plague GW2. And yet still, people started lecturing others on how to construct paragraphs or how, “technically”, the manifesto is true today. Our criticism isn’t trolling – derailing the thread into pointless, personal attacks is.

No one asked you to post a leave thread. They’re pointless. Why would A.net answer a someone pretending to leave? Wouldn’t it be in the better interest of A.net to cater to the people who’re actually staying in the game?

Oh, you bet I’m leaving.

And yet you’re still here. You’ll be here tomorrow. You’ll be here in 2 months.

There’s nothing left here to motivate me to keep going. All my friends left and as reward I get to buy RNG boxes and grind candy for the next carrot on a stick. If I wanted that I’d hop on some Korean MMO and do the same thing with better-looking character models. Guild Wars 2 was unique, that’s why I joined, that’s why I encouraged so many friends to join. Arena.NET had a chance to create a next-gen MMO, but ultimately they butchered the game, either due to their own greed or NCsoft’s. I have nothing to say to the people who live in denial. If this game interests you, go ahead and play it. It’s obvious who the development team would rather listen to and, much as it hurts me, I’m incapable of changing it and I no longer want to change it.

1/ I can’t change the game as much as you can. Only a.net has that power.

2/ I very much feel like I’m the exact target audience for the game. Maybe that’s why I like it and you don’t.

3/ One of us is going to get hurt. I’m sorry for your hurt but I’m happy I’m still playing this brilliant game. You’re too by the way, otherwise you wouldn’t be posting.

4/ RNG is irrelevant if you ignore it. I’m not buying those stupid boxes and neither should you. Don’t let that nonsense influence how you play. Actions speak louder than words (again).

Mirta.5029:

Tachenon.5270:

I’ve been through one of the paths in Twilight Arbor three times now and still don’t have enough dungeon tokens or whatever they are to get ONE lousy stinking piece of Twilight Arbor armor. Armor, to me, is content – see also: fun stuff – that I can only get to in this game if I repeat a particular activity repeatedly (see also: grind).

If you don’t have enough tickets you’re doing dungeon running wrong
1. If you ran all 3 paths once you would have had 180 tickets. Enough for helm, gloves or boots.
2. If you had 2 alts and ran one path once on all of your characters you would have once again had 180 tickets.
3. If you ran the same path once a day, you would have once again had 180 tickets.
You are doing it the no brainer way – “I’ll repeat this path on the same character 3 times!” well after the first run DR should kick in so you’ll only amass 100 tickets.
Dungeon running is not grindy, but you chose the grindiest path to do it.

4. I’m not a dungeon runner. I did it those three times (which were three separate occasions, days apart) because some guildies were doing that dungeon and asked if I’d join them.

But you’re right – I just checked and I have 192 deadly blooms, enough to get a helm, or some boots, or some gloves. For some reason I thought I had just a few over 160. Anyway, I stand corrected.

Still: how many times must one run that dungeon to get a full set of TA armor? And then there’s the weapon skins…

@Insignya.8625

Take no notice of those people who have responded negatively to you. Forums are filled with people who have a sardonic and bitter outlook so, it is no surprise that your posts pulled in some of them…

I agree with everything you have said. You have spoken eloquently and succinctly so, how your thread can be termed as a “troll thread” is ludicrous and the person who made it should be utterly ignored, having only highlighted their own ignorance.

Thanks for making this thread.

BIMBLE.7952:

@Insignya.8625

Take no notice of those people who have responded negatively to you. Forums are filled with people who have a sardonic and bitter outlook so, it is no surprise that your posts pulled in some of them…

If you’re talking about me, I’ll have to point out that I have a rather positive outlook for GW2. If anyone is sardonic and/or bitter, I perceived that from Insignya’s posts. How you manage to flip that around is beyond my understanding. But sure … if it’s bitter to have good feelings, if it’s sardonic to like the game … I’m proud to be bitter and sardonic lol.

I agree with everything you have said. You have spoken eloquently and succinctly so, how your thread can be termed as a “troll thread” is ludicrous and the person who made it should be utterly ignored, having only highlighted their own ignorance.

A rage about A.net not answering a rage thread is not eloquent nor succinct. Again … don’t try to use words for exactly the opposite of what they mean. I don’t like when people use that kind of newspeak.

Following is an exact quote by Insignya. If you think it’s succinct or eloquent, if you think it’s neither bitter nor sardonic, you should buy a new dictionary:

Seriously?! Almost 10000 views, 251 comments, nearly 2 pages of suggestions by me and nothing?! Not a single dev wants to talk to the community? Please, walk the way of Microsoft, Arena.NET, let’s see how much good it does you.

Dante.1508:

Vayne.8563:

But I think the game does match the manifesto. So do other people. You and some other people don’t. So what can you do?

Reasonable expectations help. Some people don’t have them.

Swinging swords repeatedly means grind, 95%+ of Gw2 is grind optional or not play is not a valid alternative..

Seriously the Manifesto was a lie plain and simple to say otherwise is also a lie.

That’s what I’m seeing, the argument of “you have a choice, you either play like this or not at all” being anywhere near a choice of playing how you like to play mmo’s is a farse plain and simple.

I agree I was one of the people who complained when they made the November changes to the game with the promise of gated content (agony), a new tier of armor where there was nothing missing in the first place, and a very large number of pre-launch promised projects were put on indefinite hold.

Meanwhile there doesn’t seem to be anything happening for anything other then the rewards system to correct these problems because we’re seeing that their bosses aren’t providing their team with enough money to make the corrections to that singular mistake (or the massive list of bugs in the class forums).

So what are we supposed to think?

I posted a forum thread full of suggestions to improve the overall UI in every aspect of the game save PVP because I don’t pvp so I generally don’t know what people need for that, everyone seems to like it, but here it is a whole year later and very little has been taken from that list and anything done with it. Especially on the guild side. And I’m not saying my suggestions are the best but everyone seems to like them and others have posted many of the same things, as well as lists of their own that you can easily go back and see haven’t been touched replied to or implemented into the game that would make it so much better. Eventually there comes a time when you have to ask, why, why haven’t these things been done yet?

10 months passed and not a single armor set was implemented. they promised us instead of stat based progression the concept of pure cosmetics… okay… every armor class has let’s say 30 sets half of them are awful, but since everyone has a favourite style they have their coolest looking set… then what?
i reached max lvl and got my exotic and coolest lookign set one and a half months after release… I am running in that same armor because this is the best one imo
But i want something to aspire to… something new to achieve… ascended is just meh, okay I’ll get it, no big deal. I want new armors! Maybe cloaks! They added some new weapons with this lottery thing which eventually made me lose hope in this game

Hey look here’s a laurel.

Log in to make the game look like someone is actually still playing.

zallesz.1650:

10 months passed and not a single armor set was implemented.

We’re getting that weird aviation set soon

I feel for the OP, but I don’t think it’s realistic for an Explorer type (which you seem to be) to expect a themepark game to hold your attention that long. Dev-created content always has limits, the only thing that can keep some people in the game after that is some sort of endgame hamster-wheel, and that only works for the Achievers.

But Anet don’t need to keep people in this game. It’s not a subscription game, so they don’t have to keep people continuously engaged. Don’t think of it as a virtual world or a virtual home, think of it as somewhere you can visit now and then, and be engaged for a while, then leave again, etc.

No need to be bitter, just pop your head in now and then, and if something new has appared that engages you, enjoy it.

MMORPGs have long ceased being virtual worlds to hang out in, they’re all just prettily-dressed up lobbies for combat grinds now. I think the only one that’s left that still feels like a virtual world is EVE Online.

Anet are at least trying to keep things fresh with the living world content and by changing things up now and then. That means that if you leave the game for a few months, it should be different enough to be interesting to explore for a bit.

I don’t think you can realistically hope for much more.

Vayne.8563:

Rhinala.1739:

Vayne.8563:

But you can kill 50 ascalonians anywhere and in passing. You’re not killing to level. It takes precisely 4 minutes to kill 50 ascalonians.

If you want to call 4 minutes a grind, be my guest.

So according to your statement grind is time based? this daily still urge you to kill 50 ascelonian in order to clear this “achievement”, what is the difference between this and kill 10 rats in any other game? killing 10 rats take roughly 2 min but it still consider as grind. By the way as a lower level those killings will give me xp and help me level.

Grind is something you do over and over and over again, usually for a long period of time. It’s a “long” grind, not a “short” grind.

Grind is something that you do repeatedly over and over. In the original sense it was used for leveling. You’d have to kill hundreds if not thousands of mobs to get to the next level. Not 50 that you could kill in literally 4 minutes.

I’m pretty sure that killing stuff for 4 minutes doesn’t constitute a grind. Let’s stop redefining words, please.

So, by your definition…you are grinding in these forums? Repeating the same thing over and over again: I am right, you are all wrong, you did NOT hear Colin say what you heard Colin say."

…where the hell are the mods around here? there’s 2 pages of posts that should have been removed!

Saldonus Darkholme.5680:

Vayne.8563:

Rhinala.1739:

Vayne.8563:

But you can kill 50 ascalonians anywhere and in passing. You’re not killing to level. It takes precisely 4 minutes to kill 50 ascalonians.

If you want to call 4 minutes a grind, be my guest.

So according to your statement grind is time based? this daily still urge you to kill 50 ascelonian in order to clear this “achievement”, what is the difference between this and kill 10 rats in any other game? killing 10 rats take roughly 2 min but it still consider as grind. By the way as a lower level those killings will give me xp and help me level.

Grind is something you do over and over and over again, usually for a long period of time. It’s a “long” grind, not a “short” grind.

Grind is something that you do repeatedly over and over. In the original sense it was used for leveling. You’d have to kill hundreds if not thousands of mobs to get to the next level. Not 50 that you could kill in literally 4 minutes.

I’m pretty sure that killing stuff for 4 minutes doesn’t constitute a grind. Let’s stop redefining words, please.

So, by your definition…you are grinding in these forums? Repeating the same thing over and over again: I am right, you are all wrong, you did NOT hear Colin say what you heard Colin say."

…where the hell are the mods around here? there’s 2 pages of posts that should have been removed!

Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t mean their post should be removed. Especially not when logic and reason is on their side.

Saldonus Darkholme.5680:

So, by your definition…you are grinding in these forums?

That is not his definition, but the actual definition of grind. What you take it as is up to you. Some people can be pedantic enough and decide that repeating any activity more than once is a grind. In that case posting on the forums, driving a car to work, etc is a grind.

Arkham Creed.7358:

Saldonus Darkholme.5680:

Vayne.8563:

Rhinala.1739:

Vayne.8563:

But you can kill 50 ascalonians anywhere and in passing. You’re not killing to level. It takes precisely 4 minutes to kill 50 ascalonians.

If you want to call 4 minutes a grind, be my guest.

So according to your statement grind is time based? this daily still urge you to kill 50 ascelonian in order to clear this “achievement”, what is the difference between this and kill 10 rats in any other game? killing 10 rats take roughly 2 min but it still consider as grind. By the way as a lower level those killings will give me xp and help me level.

Grind is something you do over and over and over again, usually for a long period of time. It’s a “long” grind, not a “short” grind.

Grind is something that you do repeatedly over and over. In the original sense it was used for leveling. You’d have to kill hundreds if not thousands of mobs to get to the next level. Not 50 that you could kill in literally 4 minutes.

I’m pretty sure that killing stuff for 4 minutes doesn’t constitute a grind. Let’s stop redefining words, please.

So, by your definition…you are grinding in these forums? Repeating the same thing over and over again: I am right, you are all wrong, you did NOT hear Colin say what you heard Colin say."

…where the hell are the mods around here? there’s 2 pages of posts that should have been removed!

Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t mean their post should be removed. Especially not when logic and reason is on their side.

I wasn’t implying his posts should be removed because I disagree with them. How many threads have we seen closed because the topic wasn’t stuck to? Or the arguments were circular and going nowhere? The last 2 pages of posts arguing what the definition of “is” is had absolutely NOTHING to do with the OP, and should be removed….or posted on a sticky-thread so we don’t have to read Vayne’s grind in any of the 1,000 OTHER threads he modding…I mean, posting in!!!

Saldonus Darkholme.5680:

Arkham Creed.7358:

Saldonus Darkholme.5680:

Vayne.8563:

Rhinala.1739:

Vayne.8563:

But you can kill 50 ascalonians anywhere and in passing. You’re not killing to level. It takes precisely 4 minutes to kill 50 ascalonians.

If you want to call 4 minutes a grind, be my guest.

So according to your statement grind is time based? this daily still urge you to kill 50 ascelonian in order to clear this “achievement”, what is the difference between this and kill 10 rats in any other game? killing 10 rats take roughly 2 min but it still consider as grind. By the way as a lower level those killings will give me xp and help me level.

Grind is something you do over and over and over again, usually for a long period of time. It’s a “long” grind, not a “short” grind.

Grind is something that you do repeatedly over and over. In the original sense it was used for leveling. You’d have to kill hundreds if not thousands of mobs to get to the next level. Not 50 that you could kill in literally 4 minutes.

I’m pretty sure that killing stuff for 4 minutes doesn’t constitute a grind. Let’s stop redefining words, please.

So, by your definition…you are grinding in these forums? Repeating the same thing over and over again: I am right, you are all wrong, you did NOT hear Colin say what you heard Colin say."

…where the hell are the mods around here? there’s 2 pages of posts that should have been removed!

Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t mean their post should be removed. Especially not when logic and reason is on their side.

I wasn’t implying his posts should be removed because I disagree with them. How many threads have we seen closed because the topic wasn’t stuck to? Or the arguments were circular and going nowhere? The last 2 pages of posts arguing what the definition of “is” is had absolutely NOTHING to do with the OP, and should be removed….or posted on a sticky-thread so we don’t have to read Vayne’s grind in any of the 1,000 OTHER threads he modding…I mean, posting in!!!

I understand where you’re coming from, but must respectfully disagree. The OP was talking about changes in the attitudes of the community and recent (I believe reactionary) design choices have effected his enjoyment of the game. And grind was stated as being a large part of that. As such it is only fitting that we all get on the same page as to what grind actually means in this context, as otherwise we simply can’t have an intelligent discussion on the matter.

Think about it, if I were to make a post using the term grind to describe a problem, and everyone who read it had a different opinion on what that term means, how can they discuss? They would all be talking about different things, and few or none of them would have anything to do with my original post.

Mirta.5029:

Saldonus Darkholme.5680:

So, by your definition…you are grinding in these forums?

That is not his definition, but the actual definition of grind. What you take it as is up to you. Some people can be pedantic enough and decide that repeating any activity more than once is a grind. In that case posting on the forums, driving a car to work, etc is a grind.

That statement was a bit of “tongue-in-cheek” there. I just find it hilarious that, with his gameplay and his posting, Vayne does more grinding than all the Starbucks in the USA!

I am really sorry to point this out! Really!

If anyone spends 2000 hours playing one game, it is going to get boring. I can´t think of an activity that wouldn´t.

My advice: go outside, meet people, go away for the weekend, when you come back, the game will be fun again!

It´s not about what the game has become. It´s about what your life has become. Think about it.

This all is not the fault of Anet but mainly NCsoft is too blame for this…
The income from all their games goes into “1 big pot of gold” and then they say: ok we now got x-thousand dollars, we’ll make an expansion for Lineage/aion/blade&soul/wildstar Or just go make another game with the money…

Therefor I’m quiet sure Anet would bring a better guild wars2 without NCsoft.

korky.7453:

This all is not the fault of Anet but mainly NCsoft is too blame for this…
The income from all their games goes into “1 big pot of gold” and then they say: ok we now got x-thousand dollars, we’ll make an expansion for Lineage/aion/blade&soul/wildstar Or just go make another game with the money…

Therefor I’m quiet sure Anet would bring a better guild wars2 without NCsoft.

This is how all companies work. If Anet expanded and started to make more games they would do the same thing too. Oh and may I remind you that unprofitable games simply get shut down, so the money only goes from profitable games to profitable games. Lineage/ Aion probably funs GW2 back as much as GW2 funs them if not more.

In a previous post in this thread I stated that I apologize to Arena.NET for putting the horrid gem store practices on them. I realize they’re likely not in control of that and it’s probably just NCsoft and Nexon’s policy.

I’m criticizing major issues in the direction of the game, such as the complete dedication to catering to casuals and attracting more people before establishing a healthy base for older players. There are bugs in this game that have repeatedly been pointed out since release, yet they are still present. You’ve been pushing temporary content for months now but the core of GW2 still struggles. I endorse your vision of a different game style from other MMOs, the problem is you’re no longer holding true to that. With every update the game’s beginning to look more and more like all the other games published by NCsoft. It’s like an awkward mess of ideas and mechanics, the problems of which become more blatant as months pass and you’re outright denying their existence. You’re building a skyscraper, but you haven’t even fixed the foundations yet.

In about a year you’ll face serious competition. You can’t sustain an MMO on the concept that old players will hop in every month to buy a few boxes and new ones will continue to bite the hook of temporary content. At a certain point you’ll need a healthy base of seasoned veterans. Balance your PvE content for every class. Emphasize on your pulling away from the Holy Trinity by reducing Downed State health and nerfing zerg mechanics, such as Combo Fields, AoE Heals, AoE Boons and, most importantly, number of people who can actively rez someone at the same time. This goes for WvW as well. Once again, I love the changes you’re introducing to PvP, but this game is clearly not focused on that yet, as most Eastern MMOs are on release.

Despite what certain individuals in this thread claim, I never stated I got burned-out on content. I just share the opinion of many that, for the past few months, you’ve done nothing to show those who’ve “outstayed their welcome” that this game is worthy of their dedication. I’m betting that Arena.NET had a lot different envisioning of the future of the game than its current state.

Takes too long to get the nice looking weapons and gear in PvE. No, not the precursors or legendaries. Look at the other stuff in the Mystic Forge, the stuff that’s supposed to not require a huge grind like the legendaries do. 250 lodestones as a single component of a single exotic? That still seems like a huge grind to me.

The PvP Mystic Forge is infintely better. Play a tournament, open a chest, salvage whatever you don’t want, and you’ve likely already got enough materials to craft something nice. And you can spend a small amount of glory for a token that guarantees whatever you’re forging will be the kind of item you want (weapon type, armor type, armor slot, etc.).

When I use multiple weapons that decide my skills, I don’t want to have to spend hours upon hours grinding materials just to make a single visually impressive weapon. I want an alternative to what the Legendaries are supposed to be, and I see no reason why those alternatives have to be locked behind such ridiculous requirements as 350 lodestones, 250 ectos, 250 t6 mats, etc.

Saldonus Darkholme.5680:

Vayne.8563:

Rhinala.1739:

Vayne.8563:

But you can kill 50 ascalonians anywhere and in passing. You’re not killing to level. It takes precisely 4 minutes to kill 50 ascalonians.

If you want to call 4 minutes a grind, be my guest.

So according to your statement grind is time based? this daily still urge you to kill 50 ascelonian in order to clear this “achievement”, what is the difference between this and kill 10 rats in any other game? killing 10 rats take roughly 2 min but it still consider as grind. By the way as a lower level those killings will give me xp and help me level.

Grind is something you do over and over and over again, usually for a long period of time. It’s a “long” grind, not a “short” grind.

Grind is something that you do repeatedly over and over. In the original sense it was used for leveling. You’d have to kill hundreds if not thousands of mobs to get to the next level. Not 50 that you could kill in literally 4 minutes.

I’m pretty sure that killing stuff for 4 minutes doesn’t constitute a grind. Let’s stop redefining words, please.

So, by your definition…you are grinding in these forums? Repeating the same thing over and over again: I am right, you are all wrong, you did NOT hear Colin say what you heard Colin say."

…where the hell are the mods around here? there’s 2 pages of posts that should have been removed!

These forums are by far the grindiest part of Guild Wars 2 for me. lol

To point out something that was missing from this conversation, the game’s main market is Korea. Koreans love grinding in video games and they love gambling. This puts an interesting twist because that’s a country where gold sellers flourish. You gotta wonder, maybe the devs foresaw what would happen to Guild Wars 2 so they put in all those restrictions on farming and DR? But then again, they left out CoF Path 1, so again, branching decisions with no way of explaining.

For me, the past tenth months have been frustrating.

The core game is still there and just as enjoyable as ever. However, very little done since launch has expanded on what makes the game great and a fair portion of it seems to be a direct affront to the Manifesto that informed the original development of the game.

I know at least a few key people have left Arenanet. I’m guessing a lot more have left that I’m not aware of. I just have little faith that Arenanet 2013 has the people or the principles needed to advance the game. This is a huge shame, because the game seemed a complete shoe in for reaching $1billion+ in lifetime revenue, but that potential long term success seems to be slipping through ANet’s fingers at an ever increasing pace.

I think aside from brain drain and surrendering of core principles, there has also been an ever more evident influence of crass, money motivated decision making, made all the more sad because those motivated by greed have actually been destroying the foundations of this game’s potential long term financial success with every passing month.

I’m beginning to suspect that NCSoft is exerting more and more influence over the ongoing development process and management of the gem store. If this is the case, they are just destroying their investment with their meddling. If this is not the case and this all just signals the new state of Arenanet, then we are all in trouble, because then it would appear that the studio itself has devolved to the point where they just won’t be capable of leveraging this game into the long term success it seemed destined to achieve back when the game launched.

The gem store seems to be designed now to disillusion and drive away as many paying customers as possible through the abuse of long odds RNG chests and an unwillingness to sell directly things people want and would be willing to pay for.

On the development side, we have seen a complete failure to build on the game’s biggest asset, it’s massive game world. Last Fall, they talked about doubling or tripling the number of DEs across the world by the end of year one, with the intent of making the game world feel alive via the constant evolution of Dynamic Event content with in each zone.

That was a recipe for success.

Instead, we have a focus on temporary content at the cost of the promised influx of DEs. We also have been told they haven’t even begun work on an expansion for the game, which just leaves me wondering how the company that produced this massive game in five years has managed to do so pitifully little since launch?

I’m still finding ways to enjoy this game, but that doesn’t prevent me from being disgusted at how poorly the gem store and ongoing development of the game have been handled since launch.

I’ve been playing MMOs for over 14 years and with GW2, it initially felt like this was finally the game I had been waiting for during that entire period of time. The game launched with the proper foundation and seemed destined to be on of the best games ever in the MMO genre and likely one of the most successful as well. The game is one of the best and one of the most successful, but with so much potential being squandered on an ongoing basis, it’s hard to imagine this game will ever become what it could have been and should have been unless there is some major change in priorities, design and work product in the near future.

For those only concerned with the bottom line, you might want to focus on what impact a gem store strategy that willing sacrifices long term revenues and customer loyalty will have on the long term success of the game. What the developers do for the game may seem esoteric, but the influence you have on perverting the core design philosophies at the foundation of the game, in addition to the poor management of the gem store itself and the scorched earth strategy of revenue through long odds RNG boxes seem to make you a disproportionally high part of the problem. You are damaging the brand and sacrificing long term revenue in the name of short term revenue, but in all likely hood the current gem store strategies have actually cost the company much revenue over the last ten months, in addition to potential future revenue that will now never be realized.

I really hope that senior management will seriously re-evaluate the way things have been handled over the last ten months and chart a new course before it becomes too late.

BTW, I do appreciate what good work has been done since launch. We see nuggets here and there that prove that a fair portion of developers at ANet “still get it”, but it seems their influence has been watered down significantly over time. Please keep fighting the good fight and doing what you can to keep the foundational principles of the game alive. If things are ever to get back on course, it will be people like you who will be instrumental in that recovery!

Insignya.8625:

To point out something that was missing from this conversation, the game’s main market is Korea. Koreans love grinding in video games and they love gambling. This puts an interesting twist because that’s a country where gold sellers flourish. You gotta wonder, maybe the devs foresaw what would happen to Guild Wars 2 so they put in all those restrictions on farming and DR? But then again, they left out CoF Path 1, so again, branching decisions with no way of explaining.

Umm.. the game hasn’t even released in Korea. the West is the primary market for this game. China seems to be next in line for their own version of the game. I’m guessing that the game hasn’t seen a more serious effort at localization for Korea because NCSoft doesn’t want to cannibalize the market for their intended Eastern flagship product, Blade&Soul, which, IMO is no where near the game GW2 is, which may just sting their pride back at the home office.

Fiontar.4695:

Insignya.8625:

To point out something that was missing from this conversation, the game’s main market is Korea. Koreans love grinding in video games and they love gambling. This puts an interesting twist because that’s a country where gold sellers flourish. You gotta wonder, maybe the devs foresaw what would happen to Guild Wars 2 so they put in all those restrictions on farming and DR? But then again, they left out CoF Path 1, so again, branching decisions with no way of explaining.

Umm.. the game hasn’t even released in Korea. the West is the primary market for this game. China seems to be next in line for their own version of the game. I’m guessing that the game hasn’t seen a more serious effort at localization for Korea because NCSoft doesn’t want to cannibalize the market for their intended Eastern flagship product, Blade&Soul, which, IMO is no where near the game GW2 is, which may just sting their pride back at the home office.

Oh, apologies for my statement then. I heard this bit today but I never checked it. It does make a lot of sense for them to localize their games in such way, though eventually GW2 will probably make it to the East.

As for your bigger comment, I skimmed through it and I think you’ve explained everything brilliantly, but I’m too exhausted from work so I’ll read it again more carefully tomorrow. Thanks a million for contributing!

I couldn’t agree more OP…The game could be great and I truly want it to be….ANet strayed from their promises and turned it’s back on their own foundation of an amazing world they created.

The game is bleeding out now and it is heartbreaking.

marnick.4305:

Why would A.net post in a troll thread in the first place?

So basically you’re saying any post critical of anet is trolling…

@Fiontar, I think you hit the nail on the head. You managed to explain more clearly than I what’s wrong with the game’s direction.

Abandoning long-term revenue in favor of immediate profit is never a good strategy. Picture this scenario: player X joins 10 months after release and is way behind on farming and acquiring skins. He goes to the gem store, reads the advertising on the Rich Dragon Coffers (which is written to be intentionally misleading, by the way) and buys 10… or 50. RNG kicks in and gives him candy and a bunch of fireworks for his REAL MONEY. That’s kitten ing off the consumer, who then, logically, abandons the game. So you have his box/digital sale + gems, but this person is angry at your product and most likely will warn his friends to stay far away from Guild Wars 2. You’re profiting off basic addiction; how long will that last?

Moving from the topic of excessive, over-abundant RNG in this game; by providing only temporary and RNG gated content, you’re shooting yourselves in the foot, even if you think it gets you more money in the end. Now why’s that. Long-term players tend to look with a sort of affection towards a game – they’ll discuss it at length and defend it when competition arises; some will make machinima videos, which are an amazing way of promoting any game; they’ll convince their friends to buy it, often times with way more success than any advertisements. Your message to them with your updates for the past 6 months has been: “You’ve had your fun, move on.” This is not because of a lack of subscription, as some claim. You can make players commit, but you’re going about it in the worst way possible. Grinding and RNG are the laziest methods of sustaining a game- I highly doubt a team this creative has run out of ideas, yet that’s what you’re showing with these monthly updates. You’re shunning your fans away from GW2 and inviting new players in before the stuff is gone from the world.

Some of the stuff you’ve introduced in Guild Wars 2 has been amazing. Guild missions, ascended items for WvW players, the shoutcaster program in PvP- these are all great! Changes like these will help this game evolve. But for every step you make with such updates you take two back, falling on old principles of MMOs. People don’t want another World of Warcraft, yet they need to commit because Guild Wars 2 is a strong title and obviously cost a lot to make. That’s why people play MMOs – because they’re meant to evolve and keep the playerbase for years to come. You’re making this weird hybrid that tries to sustain itself while constantly alienating the hardcore population. You need a serious talk in your team about where the game is going: it’s apparent to anyone who’s not heavily biased or overly resentful that, currently, you don’t know what you want your game to be.

We’ve seen the damage that’s been caused to Guild Wars 2 as a result of Arena.NET listening to feedback without sorting it and taking only what’s good in future terms. I feel silly for having to explain these issues to developers who’ve been in the business for so long. I mean, for Dwayna’s sakes, some people on your team broke off from Blizzard to create better content years ago! And they accomplished that to a great extent with Guild Wars 1! Don’t you see how massive MMOs die and turn free-to-play? Why are you following so blindly in their footsteps?

The reason why Anet can get away with this now is that there is currently no other MMO that works for a percentage of players. None.

Not to say what is being done is fair or great. But it’s not like I personally have another option. And I don’t suspect I’ll have another option until sometime next year.

If they get their act together before the next MMO comes out that caters to the play style they’re aiming for, the non-raiding casual crowd, they’ll probably do okay. If they continue to focus so much on gem store RNG, Anet will be risking everything.

Insignya.8625:

I mean, for Dwayna’s sakes, some people on your team broke off from Blizzard to create better content years ago! And they accomplished that to a great extent with Guild Wars 1! Don’t you see how massive MMOs die and turn free-to-play? Why are you following so blindly in their footsteps?

Well sad. I’ve been asking this to myself. I don’t get it either.

Fiontar.4695:

[…] On the development side, we have seen a complete failure to build on the game’s biggest asset, it’s massive game world. Last Fall, they talked about doubling or tripling the number of DEs across the world by the end of year one, with the intent of making the game world feel alive via the constant evolution of Dynamic Event content with in each zone.

That was a recipe for success. […]

Are you sure?

The reason for this challenge is to question whether the general gaming base would really care about a bunch of new dynamic events inserted in an existing zone. Consider the fact there is a very small and finite number of event types and then couple this with a reward system that has to go out of its way to purposefully incentivise players to turn up.

Consider these two aspects and would anything but a small minority know about, let alone care about, a bunch of new dynamic events in, say, Mount Maelstrom? New events that ultimately land up being more of the same from a game play experience perspective, and thus largely ignored and forgotten because “Oh look, a new escort mission, not like I have not experience dozens of those already!”.

This does not mean it could not work but I believe would require something special, a zone wide interaction of dynamic events leading up to an epic finale with suitable rewards as an incentive. Except it could be argued these are already present in the game and hugely inconsistent ranging from the good, the bad to the downright ugly which is reflected in their relative popularity. In my case, I still hold a degree of affection for the dynamic meta-event in Harathi Hinterlands and wish we could see more of these types of intertwining dynamic events strewn throughout the world.

Unfortunately I take a more pessimistic approach regarding the size of the game world, seeing it both as an asset and a curse. On one hand, it provides this phenomenal foundation and framework to be filled with changing content while providing a more immersive world where geographical and geological environments can be more believably phased together. Although to this day the environmental transition in GW1’s ‘Eye of The North’ expansion from the very northern Shiverpeak area down to the Ascalonian Vanguard/Charr area is in my cool gaming experience category.

However, I also see it as a curse for the simple reason it becomes near impossible to make anything but a small portion of the world relevant to the ‘consumerism’ attitude of the wider player base. However, that is not to say there are not ways or means, I genuinely believe GW1 found its solution within its game design in the form of the ‘Daily Zaishen’ challenge. Up to the 7-hero update outposts across all four campaigns would occasionally fill up by players looking to group up and complete the daily PvE story mission or boss bounty.

Unfortunately, due to the game design implementation of GW2 such as the personal story the GW1 approach is not really a solution in itself – although the boss bounty could work with dungeons.

@Fyrehawk: Great post, and I suspect the reasons you outline are why the content update model has shifted from “more dynamic events” to the living story concept that is (IMO) starting to deliver on the idea of a changing world in a way that just adding more dynamic events couldn’t.

I’ll conclude that it’s pointless to expect someone on the dev team to openly discuss issues with the game. If a moderator can close this thread, that’d be great.

Enjoy living in a lie, Arena.NET.

marnick.4305:

killcannon.2576:

Fail at reading comprehension much? Look at the words used. The most common usage- ie meaning not the only. And Wikipedia? Seriously? lol, Did you even bother to check the referenced sources for the article? Of course not. You are embarrassing yourself.

1/ Wikipedia is a very reliable source, that has been confirmed on several occasions

2/ most common usage is a very good definition unless you deliberately reframe something to suit an agenda. I’d go with the wiki definition over yours any day of the week.

3/ the sources claim the same.

There’s only one person embarrassing himself.

Wikipedia is a terrible source and you can not use it as a source in any scholarly article. The best you can do is use the sources that wikipedia uses as a source. If you look at the sources of the article in question they are opinion pieces.

Common usage according to the article is again an opinion, not a fact.

The sources are from opinion pieces.

Go to college and try…just try…to use wikipedia as a source. Laughable.

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

In more detail…here’s the Colin Johanson paragraph that most people quote when they talk about grind…the WHOLE paragraph:

Colin Johanson: “When you look at the art in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s visually stunning. I’ve never seen anything like that before,’ and then when you play the combat in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s incredible. I’ve never seen anything like that.’ In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. ‘I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.’ That’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.”

Where does it talk about gear or mats or farming in this paragraph? Does anyone else not actually remember the original definition of grind in MMOs, before people started calling farming grinding?

Grinding was killing stuff to level. In most games you had to kill stuff over and over again to level. Aion ran out of quests and the only way to level was to kill bosses. Over and over again. That’s the grind he was talking about.

He’s talking about stuff like having big encounters like the Shadow Behemoth in a starter zone. He’s talking about stuff like being able to go right from level 2 into SPvP without doing PvE at all. He’s talking about bring the fun back to leveling.

snip

snip

snip

Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive tasks during video games. ¹² The most common usage is in the context of MMORPGs like World of Warcraft, Tibia, or Lineage ³ in which it is often necessary for a character to repeatedly kill AI-controlled monsters, using basically the same strategy over again to advance their character level to be able to access newer content. MUDs, generally sharing much of the same gameplay as MMORPGs, encounter the same problem. Grinding may be required by some games to unlock additional features.

snip

Gear was not mentioned in the paragraph. I’m pretty sure most people who aren’t being disingenuous will admit that Colin was in no way talking about gear grind, which is another issue entirely.

Fail at reading comprehension much? Look at the words used. The most common usage- ie meaning not the only. And Wikipedia? Seriously? lol, Did you even bother to check the referenced sources for the article? Of course not. You are embarrassing yourself.

Common usage means nothing. Seriously. If you can’t tell from reading that paragraph what Colin was talking about, common usage or not common usage, you shouldn’t even be arguing. Because you’re embarrassing yourself.

It’s clearly a paragraph that starts with one thing and ends with another thing. At no point in that ENTIRE paragraph is gear mentioned at all. So you want to take a single word, out of context, while ignoring other words in the paragraph, including the first and last bits of it just to prove a point.

Ever consider becoming a lawyer?

I’m not even discussing what the Devs did or did not say, or their meaning behind what they did or did not say. Rather the definition of grind you are trying to push as gospel.

Grind is and always will be subjective.

p.s. If you actually read the wiki article, GW2 has it’s own little paragraph that describes the grind in the game. So using the article you use as a source for grind….GW2 is a grindy game.

Truth in advertising…

I probably would have liked this game had it been what I expected. But after all the hype and hooplah from ArenaNet about it, I can’t help but feel really let down. I was such a huge Guild Wars fan, and they really had me believing for years that GW2 was going to be something very, very different from the experience that it really is. I realize that nobody technically lied about GW2, but I sure feel misled. I truly expected a really great, brilliant game from ArenaNet.

Instead I find a sloppily done, mediocre funnel into the cash shop with no real story or lore, and, in comparison to Guild Wars, over-simplified and restrictive gameplay. So restrictive that, despite the claim “play any way you like”, I find that if I don’t do it ArenaNet’s way, I’m “doing it wrong.”

So I think the disappointment over all those false expectations is what ultimately drove me away from the game. I don’t even log in anymore. I’m sure as hell not buying an expansion or any more gems (how dumb do I feel over those additional character slots?).

Maybe they’ll get it sorted out before this game just becomes another low-population niche game (or has it already?). I have my doubts, though. I’m learning not to trust NCSoft or ArenaNet anymore.

@Chuo, for a certain time the game did follow on its premise. It really was a special experience, with the dynamic events and the way it never really seemed like you were working towards max level as much as you were genuinely enjoying the level of exploration. They could have built upon it, they could have expanded the world and they could have fulfilled their idea.

Somewhere along the line the whole focus shifted from a creative product to a corporate cash cow. I mean, it literally is just that at the moment; I’m not talking about the future; right now Guild Wars 2 exists to bait people into gambling and it has been doing that for the majority of 2013 thus far. Nothing’s really been fixed, nothing of value has been added – that’s development time dedicated specifically to the hardcore or semi-hardcore audience or, hell, anyone who actually wants to be involved for a longer time. But they won’t do that. Temporary content and short-term revenue: that’s where it’s at!

I don’t think Arena.NET will ever redeem itself to its fans with Guild Wars 2. Even if an expansion came it would, after a short time, become obsolete. After half a year of waiting it’s safe to say the manifesto is no longer a priority. Much as I am disappointed with the company and the publisher, I have to admit it was one of the better games I’ve ever played. Definitely my Game of the Year for 2012. As for 2013? GW2 is dead to me, it’s dead to many who feel lied to and if anything good can be derived from all this, is that a good company needs to hold the respect of its followers, not push them under the rails at first opportunity. You sold people’s belief in you and I don’t think you’ll ever become credible in their eyes again.

Whats wrong in my opinion is that Gw2 is supposed to be about horizontal progression, sure there is ascended gear and I was a little annoyed by it at first but after seeing how easy the items are to get its not a big deal to me. Anyways Horizontal progression to me meant going out at end game and earning unique skins through skillful acts around the world of Tyria and making my character(s) look awesome! But what we got was very different, end game is now all about sitting in Lions Arch with a credit card buying gems, which then you buy chest/coffers/boxes what ever you want to call them in hopes RNG likes you enough to allow you “earn” the hottest new skins in game.

Wheres the content that allows us to earn cool unique skins through skillful acts/achievements/encounters etc? I don’t know about anyone else but I am personally getting tired of fighting the big bad RNG boss everyday, he cannot be beatin!

The nostalgia wears off really fast when the game has a hard time keeping you playing it long enough to work on a Legendary. With all the work you spend on it having run out of things to do, doesn’t it just feel like an empty victory at the end? Poorly designed monotonous acquisition of it instead of making it actually fun. Tedious grinding and hundreds of hours of boredom should never be a measure of difficulty. They should have just given it like 300 quests attached to it to make it very time consuming but at least be interesting to do. After all, what is there left to do once you have one? May as well make getting one fun instead of torturing yourself and being so burnt out after getting one you may no longer want to play that character. If it felt epic to get one you could actually think back on that experience and not cringe. Like remember when you soloed the Champion Destroyer Harpy for this part of the legendary event chain. Instead of remember when you spent 8 hours farming ice elementals and getting two drops for the hundreds of items you’ll eventually need.

Cercie.1025:

If it felt epic to get one you could actually think back on that experience and not cringe.

This. This right here is the reason I will never go for a Legendary.

Anet should just fix their game mechanics and gear assortment first. It’s a terrible idea to make certain gear stat combinations acquirable only through certain means, it also adds more complications. The dragon fights in this game is laughable; so do almost all of the other boss fights. Tbh, gw2 is a pretty game, but has never really been as good as it looked. I sure hope anet start looking at ways to make it better, and I don’t think trying to solve the ‘endgame’ issue is the solution.

Insignya.8625:

I’ll summarize – every month for the past half year you’ve been putting up content which has been decreasing in quality. These updates provide about 3 hours of gameplay, yet you superficially extend that to another month or so. You’re making story bits that are so dry they might as well not exist (except the Molten Facility, that was awesome) and then add excessive amounts of grinding and the next shiny RNG chest, excuse me, coffer as it’s referred to nowadays. As a result you please no one but a small portion of the populace who are living off of chocolate bunnies and liquid dreams, while leaving the majority wondering what you were aiming for. It’s confusing to explain even because your design ideas don’t make any sense.

Oh my god yes, a thousand times yes. I have said it before and will say it again, the design decisions patch after patch have left me scratching my head. What are they even trying to do?!

Aeonblade.8709:

Oh my god yes, a thousand times yes. I have said it before and will say it again, the design decisions patch after patch have left me scratching my head. What are they even trying to do?!

I hope they’re buying time to allow them to program and implement stuff that’s more permanent, more fun and more involved. GW2 did not have as many time sinks in it at launch as other MMO’s tend to. All MMO’s use time sinks to keep players interested while they work on the next iteration. GW2’s time sinks just happen to be coming in patches rather than at launch.

The hinted-at “rewards” pass looks promising, but we’ll see.

I’d settle for fewer patches with higher quality content, but I wonder how those who want to spend a lot of time in game would tolerate a longer wait for something new.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Aeonblade.8709:

Oh my god yes, a thousand times yes. I have said it before and will say it again, the design decisions patch after patch have left me scratching my head. What are they even trying to do?!

I hope they’re buying time to allow them to program and implement stuff that’s more permanent, more fun and more involved. GW2 did not have as many time sinks in it at launch as other MMO’s tend to. All MMO’s use time sinks to keep players interested while they work on the next iteration. GW2’s time sinks just happen to be coming in patches rather than at launch.

The hinted-at “rewards” pass looks promising, but we’ll see.

I’d settle for fewer patches with higher quality content, but I wonder how those who want to spend a lot of time in game would tolerate a longer wait for something new.

I don’t know about others, but I would rather wait 3-6 months for a large quality patch than get a few hours of temporary stuff every month. I’m sure many many people prefer the monthly method, but some of us veterans need something with some meat on the bone, so to speak.

Wow I’ve tried to read all the posts in this thread but am going blind. To the OP I really relate to what your saying, your story is very similar to my own. It’s weird though, while I’m becoming aware of more and more people either leaving or just logging in once a week I’m still very happy with the game.

However I am becoming increasingly downbeat with the overall negative attitude of the player base. Not that they are wrong, it’s just hard to hear players burning a game you still love, especially when I can see their point.

I can also see why after taking a huge amount of time to post up not a single comment from AN but I could have told you they don’t usually reply on these subjects. I’ve made tens of threads suggesting (what I think) ideas for the game that would make it a far better experience. Not one reply yet

Bottom line is that this game is not what many (like myself) assumed it would be but unlike many I have found many enjoyable aspects of the game. As I’ve posted elsewhere we have had a blistering amount of additional content in the first year. Im also hopeful when I see most zones on my server teeming with activity. With an expansion semi confirmed and the fact it’s free to play I suspect GW2 will live for many years to come.

Aeonblade.8709:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Aeonblade.8709:

Oh my god yes, a thousand times yes. I have said it before and will say it again, the design decisions patch after patch have left me scratching my head. What are they even trying to do?!

I hope they’re buying time to allow them to program and implement stuff that’s more permanent, more fun and more involved. GW2 did not have as many time sinks in it at launch as other MMO’s tend to. All MMO’s use time sinks to keep players interested while they work on the next iteration. GW2’s time sinks just happen to be coming in patches rather than at launch.

The hinted-at “rewards” pass looks promising, but we’ll see.

I’d settle for fewer patches with higher quality content, but I wonder how those who want to spend a lot of time in game would tolerate a longer wait for something new.

I don’t know about others, but I would rather wait 3-6 months for a large quality patch than get a few hours of temporary stuff every month. I’m sure many many people prefer the monthly method, but some of us veterans need something with some meat on the bone, so to speak.

I’m hoping that the rework of rewards will make Champions worth going after. If it does, and the rewards for doing so are durable (i.e., cannot be obtained in short order), this might revitalize the long-event chains that spawn a lot of Champs (with more spawning due to the new scaling). These chains sit unused most of the time, and some of them are quite involved.