Guild Wars 2

If GW2 has a traditional Trinity system, what would the game be like?

Pure speculation discussion, so feel free to give your belief of what the game would be like with a traditional Tank/Healer/DPS trinity system.

(excuse the title of thread. limited character prevents title detail)

LFM healer
LFM healer
LFM healer…..

I like the no trinity but I don’t care that it is totally forced. DDO did a pretty good job of allowing players to build for trinity or be self reliant but that game is PvE game.

It would be a better game.

For WvW it would encourage fighting rather than fleeing.

For PvE it would encourage content that requires teamwork instead of smacking your facea gainst the keyboard

Guardians everywhere, since they can more or less do the 3 roles

In PvE, it would be a bit more familiar, yes, and more structured, but parties will kick people that they aren’t looking for. Currently in GW2, party requirements usually require experience, level, and how good you are as a player (good survivor, good DPS, good offense or good defense and good buffs/conditions, ect ect), which makes the whole system less structural but more flexible.

If there was a trinity, I would get kicked 60% in parties because I’m not a healer or tank, and then people would be complaining on forum posts “PLS REMOVE TRINITY”. The trinity is more of a simplified version of a team, where in GW2 it’s a bit more complicated, like who’s the one giving conditions, majority of damage, buffing allies, ect ect so people have several responsibilities for the team than just one most of the time, which is DPS, tank, or healer.

In WvW, if you don’t have your two other teammates, you’re screwed (which would make lone PVPers insignificant). Healers would spam an AOE heal (if there was one) that would make the whole stacking group invincible, and it would be a skill spam zerg fest.

And certainly, it wouldn’t be as popular and as hyped as it would have if it didn’t.

It would make me stop playing.

guild wars 1?
Message Body length must at least be 15.

My experience with the trinity would not indicate a problem with queues. I’ve done perhaps thousands of instances and that mainly as DPS—queuing really wasn’t an issue. What the trinity would provide is meaningful combat roles so we could stop talking about zerker gear. I mean, that’s really what all those threads address, the fact that there is only really one role and that is DPS. That, in itself, should be enough to indicate a problem in terms of combat roles. The answer does not have to be the trinity, simply more meaningful roles than one.

GLF healer….
After 2 hrs GLF healer….
Yeah right goodluck!

PvE would be far better, and the game might have an end-game PvE just as strong as WoW’s. PvP, on the other hand, would probably go back to requiring a healer for a team to be viable, so it’d probably be worse.

For PvE, it’s not that the trinity is a must-have, it’s more that the devs have failed to replace it with something better.

It would be a massive disaster that would probably spread ruin into the real world and destroy the planet. So hope that never happens. o.o Or even worse the game may turn into FFXIV.

Balancing would be easier, so some nerfs wouldn’t be necessary.

Raine.1394:

I mean, that’s really what all those threads address, the fact that there is only really one role and that is DPS.

This. It was originally touted that GW2 would replace the Tank/DPS/Heals trinity with Damage/Control/Support. Instead, everyone is Damage that has various aspects of Support rolled in based on which profession you have chosen. Builds that do not emphasize damage, in addition to the forms of support that their profession can bring, are generally more of a hindrance on the party than any kind of help simply because they can build for the high damage without sacrificing the ability to provide support still.

It is not an inherently bad thing to do away with the Trinity that most MMOs use. But the way that things stand right now is rather limiting on the ways that ANet can design encounters. It would be nice to see a return to the original proposition, where Control and Support are roles that requires more specialization than a few trait and utility choices.

GW2 is supposed to be solo game inspired with group support abilities and content. If it had a holy trinity they would need to tone down how much damage mobs do in PVE or you wouldn’t be able to solo.

Given how extremely dull PVE is in this game, a holy trinity would make it dull and dependent on parties.

It would be worse.

Not because it’s a bad idea, but because it would be implemented poorly.

i beginning to rethink my ideas on trinity i used to hate it but it gave me more ways to think about a game strategically where this game doesnt make me think as much. i think if you got the roles the enemy can be harder so you got to think more where you are. i tend to like games that make me think better then others. yeah the whole lfg caused me to play healer in other games a role i didnt mind doing. so i always had a group fast. im thinking my next game better have trinity or im not buying it

I know one thing for certain: I would walk away from this game.

I play the game as I see fit and not as how other people demand I play (LF Tank! LF Healer!). The lack of a trinity has been a good thing. it means that I can roll whatever build I wish and use my own skills to advance through the game, rather than rely on stats and other people to back me up.

If I wanted to play a WoW clone, i would already be playing one of the many clones out there. I don’t. I want to play GW2.

GW2 is more of a WoW clone than a GW1 was.

REMOVE TRINITY NOW !!!!11

and looking for1 healer.

And it would kill the game, becuase this change would be too radical to be accepted and implemented well.

ricky markham.8173:

i beginning to rethink my ideas on trinity i used to hate it but it gave me more ways to think about a game strategically where this game doesnt make me think as much. i think if you got the roles the enemy can be harder so you got to think more where you are. i tend to like games that make me think better then others. yeah the whole lfg caused me to play healer in other games a role i didnt mind doing. so i always had a group fast. im thinking my next game better have trinity or im not buying it

If you think about it, humans always approach group objectives through roles, and I don’t care whether we’re talking about a scavenger hunt or brain surgery. And, actually the lfg issue is a red herring for me. I’ve queued, literally, for thousands of instances and queue time was rarely an issue. And, certainly not a case to build a position on around differentiated combat roles.

It would be a huge improvement to PvE at the very least. They could develop real fights, have real raids with real stories behind them and offer real rewards for completing them.

The lack of roles has really been holding this game back. It doesn’t even need to be Tank/Healer/DPS, a DPS/Support/Debuff trinity would work just as well.

What if they kept all of the content 100% the same way as it was, but upped the effectiveness of support, tanking, and control. Then you have roles, but they arent needed to complete content.

uknortherner.2670:

I know one thing for certain: I would walk away from this game.

I play the game as I see fit and not as how other people demand I play (LF Tank! LF Healer!). The lack of a trinity has been a good thing. it means that I can roll whatever build I wish and use my own skills to advance through the game, rather than rely on stats and other people to back me up.

If I wanted to play a WoW clone, i would already be playing one of the many clones out there. I don’t. I want to play GW2.

Because all that time being saved looking for a healer or tank is better spent looking at timers countdown while afk in LA…

ZudetGambeous.9573:

It would be a huge improvement to PvE at the very least. They could develop real fights, have real raids with real stories behind them and offer real rewards for completing them.

The lack of roles has really been holding this game back. It doesn’t even need to be Tank/Healer/DPS, a DPS/Support/Debuff trinity would work just as well.

Funny. Anet tried to make a new Trinity. The DPS/Support/Control Trinity, but with the poor AI, massive Damagespikes from Zerkers and poorly implemented Mechanics, we have the DPS pwns all Situation. The problem is not the lack of the trinity, the real problem is the poorly implementation of the fight mechanics and stats.

If GW2 had the trinity combat wouldn’t be nearly as fun as it is now. Leave that to lesser MMOs.

It would be a completely different game, and very similar to a lot of other MMO’s that already exist and are very popular.

There’s no one perfect MMO, only many perfect MMO’s. Leave the traditional tank/healer/DPS trinity to other games. That way, people who prefer it can play those, and those who don’t can play Guild Wars 2.

As valuable as it is for players to give their feedback on the finer details of the game, if your problem with GW2 is something as fundamental as the lack of a trinity, then you’re in the wrong game, and there’s nothing wrong with that.

Any kind of structure in a party would have casuals wondering what to do. It would probably put the spotlight on how they usually just get carried through pve.

That being said, I wish they fixed or tried to implement what they said they were going to implement (dmg, support, control). Right now it’s just dmg; something casuals are having a field-day with.

It would change nothing. The content does not require it. Having a more healing focused option than there is now would only add another option for players.

Trying a traditional Tank being healed and holding aggro in this game would be as fail as trying to do Heroic/Epic content in EQ2 with GW2 groups.

Furthermore, in the Trinity MMOs I have played, the “Trinity” is not needed for a vast part of the game. People solo, Duo, and level to Endgame without it. It is needed for the areas that absolutely require it. Trinity is not needed in the open world at all. DPS and Control/self heal small groups do open dungeons as well as a small group with a dedicated healer… the only thing missing is rez.. and the answer to that is. “don’t die”. Anyone can rez here so that is a non-issue.

A pair of Shadowknights can take on content easily that noob groups with a healer fail at. Right now, in EQ2, people can take a mercenary to “solo” with. The overwhelming choice is DPS mercs, SK, even if you are a DPS class for most of that content.

And what kind of healer? I think you all are assuming some pure squish. Big difference between that and an EQ2 Inquisitor that can heal and turn out impressive DPS while not dying if looked at wrong.

In PVE here, if a dedicated healer class was implemented, they would be the one crying LFG. They aren’t needed. They would be in demand as much as a Ranger is. The DPS meta would not change at all.

A dedicated healer would add a lot to pvp and wvw. Trinity has never “worked” on people AI. Trinity in pvp has never been hold aggro on a stupid bag of HP who ignores backlines.

The trinity in other games meant standing around for long periods of time looking for tanks and healers. It also meant that those who play “healing classes” but chose to spec for damage or general support (buffs, CC, DoTs) were kicked as soon as the group leader found out that Cleric A was a Battle Cleric and not a Healbot.

I see no good that could come from making the trinity a viable mechanic in GW2. Mesmers, Rangers, Thieves, and Engineers would immediately become obsolete without a complete rework. Everyone would be Warriors, Guardians and Eles. Damage and Toughness/Vitality would become “king” and poor Necros would simply fade away, as they don’t do enough damage to DPS, and they don’t have enough health to tank.

I would much rather see support roles that actually mean something other than standing around waiting for the DPSers to wear down the boss so they can get in a couple of hits in order to get some sort of reward. As much as everyone dislikes the upcoming nerf to zerker gear, people are going to have to think for themselves and make some new builds. Maybe a new playstyle will come of this.

Ashabhi.1365:

The trinity in other games meant standing around for long periods of time looking for tanks and healers. It also meant that those who play “healing classes” but chose to spec for damage or general support (buffs, CC, DoTs) were kicked as soon as the group leader found out that Cleric A was a Battle Cleric and not a Healbot.

I see no good that could come from making the trinity a viable mechanic in GW2. Mesmers, Rangers, Thieves, and Engineers would immediately become obsolete without a complete rework. Everyone would be Warriors, Guardians and Eles. Damage and Toughness/Vitality would become “king” and poor Necros would simply fade away, as they don’t do enough damage to DPS, and they don’t have enough health to tank.

I would much rather see support roles that actually mean something other than standing around waiting for the DPSers to wear down the boss so they can get in a couple of hits in order to get some sort of reward. As much as everyone dislikes the upcoming nerf to zerker gear, people are going to have to think for themselves and make some new builds. Maybe a new playstyle will come of this.

Haven’t really played much of the actual games have you. Pretty obvious. No need for DPS, cc, offtanks, wards, etc. All things a serious Raid group needs beyond “healer and tank”. Also the “standing around doing nothing” is a player choice. So is waiting for the “perfect” group.. and “standing around waiting for a group” is still in GW2 for people who cannot comprehend there is more than one way to play “any” game. That won’t change no matter what mechanics are involved.

People get groupkicked all the time in GW2 for being the “wrong” class and build. What has changed?

IF they wanted to do it, they’d have to make sure that each class could fit any of the three rolls, as well as a middle ground where they can solo.

They’d have to implement some sort of fast build change feature, possibly on a 15 minute timer, so you can change from healer to DPS or whatever your group needs.

I don’t really think it would be worth it. As much as I may hate some of the choices the ANet Devs have made (and continue to make), I think the best thing to do is to try and make GW2 work AS GW2. Don’t “fix” it by making it into a different game, just like so many of the others out there already. If they can find a way to make this game work well, then they’ll have something truly outstanding on their hands.

Raine.1394:

What the trinity would provide is meaningful combat roles so we could stop talking about zerker gear. I mean, that’s really what all those threads address, the fact that there is only really one role and that is DPS.

The thing is, even the, the core mechanics of the game which people are highlighting as the issue now, would still need to be changed. The dominance of zerker gear is that healing stat scales terribly making any sort of healer role useless outside of passive regen from guardian or banner warrior. Toughness in PVE is largely useless since most boss mechanics (ie the biggest issue with the game) are almost entirely based around 1 shot kills. A healer can’t heal through 1 shot mechanics and toughness being redundant against 1 shot mechanics really only leaves players to use active defenses (dodge) since a lot of the time CC ones like blind don’t work on bosses (immune…) so the only efficient mechanic as DESIGNED by the game mechanics is to go DPS and knock them out ASAP. Without an overhaul to boss mechanics a trinity system wouldn’t achieve anything because current boss mechanics don’t allow for anything else.

VOLKON.1290:

If GW2 had the trinity combat wouldn’t be nearly as fun as it is now. Leave that to lesser MMOs.

Stacking in a corner and autoattacking a boss… So glad “lesser MMOs” aren’t taking example from GW2’s “fun” combat system…

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

LFM healer
LFM healer
LFM healer…..

I like the no trinity but I don’t care that it is totally forced. DDO did a pretty good job of allowing players to build for trinity or be self reliant but that game is PvE game.

So instead we are : LF Guardian LF Guardian
I don’t see any difference except from the fact that a very fun mechanic that makes the player unique is missing from gw2

a healing-anchored trinity would be bad, but IMO there is a lot of scope for (re-)introducing more prot-like skills/mechanics from GW1, as well as a few more “heal projectile”-like abilities similar to guardian staff #2.

Immensus.9732:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

LFM healer
LFM healer
LFM healer…..

I like the no trinity but I don’t care that it is totally forced. DDO did a pretty good job of allowing players to build for trinity or be self reliant but that game is PvE game.

So instead we are : LF Guardian LF Guardian
I don’t see any difference except from the fact that a very fun mechanic that makes the player unique is missing from gw2

It isn’t necessary for a guard, can make it easier but it still is not essential like a dedicated healer/tank/dps in trinity games.

What do you really expect out of people though? Just lower your expectations and humans won’t surprise you with how they act.

It would be way worse? The forced dependency of trinity play was always a drawback, not a benefit, and there’s nothing really compelling about sacrificing game play for ‘diversity’.

timidobserver.7925:

Balancing would be easier, so some nerfs wouldn’t be necessary.

I’d think balancing tanks vs dps vs healers would be harder than balancing dps with support skills vs dps with support skills. WoW’s “hybrid tax” comes to mind.

Ozoug.4158:

It would be a better game.

For WvW it would encourage fighting rather than fleeing.

For PvE it would encourage content that requires teamwork instead of smacking your facea gainst the keyboard

are you kidding me? wvw would be nightmarish. there would have to be equal parts healers to anything else otherwise half your zerg dies anyway.

The trinity was supposed to have been replaced by multiple varieties of builds, what we got is mass zerg therefore I can only conclude that the trinity was not only far superior but also gave me much more memorable and satisfying encounters.

I can remember amazing encounters in dungeons and raids from trinity games going back 10 years including GW1, but alas GW2 will be completely forgettable as it just does not provoke that sense of fear, danger and achievement.

Stormcrow.7513:

Q: What would GW2 be like with trinity?

A: Much better

^this.

Dante.1508:

Stormcrow.7513:

Q: What would GW2 be like with trinity?

A: Much better

^this.

An opinion , mine is would be boring .

Same reason I like playing Wardens in LOTRO ,even with the recent respec ,I can look after myself when i want inc solo bosses and can add advantages to group when group up….and horses are great but so laggy if a few makes WvW blobs feel like heaven .

Even in DAoC, zerging was an issue. At least in GW2, we don’t have /follow for AFK zerging

It would be a far worst game.

You would have open event of nothing but dps ppl who build tankly and you would have support and tank players unable to do any thing to get loot.

In wvw you would have dps being the only class type that would be of any worth (support and tanking in a pvp setting allways falls way behind that of a dps class that is made to have some build in ways out).

In spvp you would see a complete gone to having more then one build for each class and the ability to Q up solo would be non existent.

In more dungeon pve you would see one class out do all other in needed more then like you could not do any thing with out a guard ever.

Exp part of the game would more like to fall into the dps being able to get far more exp and loot because the support would not have time to tag mobs if the support going full on.

Over all trinity in gw2 would be the worst thing that could happen to the game. In a way its the worst thing to happen to all games at this level of tech. It makes one build and one build only for classes it keeps lot to only be dropped to a pt wide and not a person drop and if it was a person drop the dps would be getting most if not all of the loot / exp. In pvp setting it means you kill the one class first every time you would not even call them a support you would call them the bull’s eye and comply go arond the tanks.

Dante.1508:

Stormcrow.7513:

Q: What would GW2 be like with trinity?

A: Much better

^this.

I think most people disagree. Hard trinity is a very outdated and pigeon-holing paradigm. Having said that, though, the intended “soft roles” don’t really work and they need to be reviewed.

DPS = Warrior
Tank = Warrior/Guardian
Support = Guardian/Mesmer

We do have the trinity in this game it’s just that some people fail to realize it.

ElexOrieN.2130:

DPS = Warrior
Tank = Warrior/Guardian
Support = Guardian/Mesmer

We do have the trinity in this game it’s just that some people fail to realize it.

I agree with this. the game does have them. people only believed they were out because the paper said so.

mergi.1407:

The trinity was supposed to have been replaced by multiple varieties of builds, what we got is mass zerg therefore I can only conclude that the trinity was not only far superior but also gave me much more memorable and satisfying encounters.

I can remember amazing encounters in dungeons and raids from trinity games going back 10 years including GW1, but alas GW2 will be completely forgettable as it just does not provoke that sense of fear, danger and achievement.

That’s less a problem relating to the trinity and more a problem of the Guild Wars 2 team being a bit less than great when it comes to balancing offense vs defense. I don’t think they’d do much better with a trinity, except then you’d be pigeonholed into a role and have to reroll to switch.

Might as well ask what the game would be like with Mecha and powersuits because we aren’t getting those either.

Have you people who obviously hate the trinity ever played Eq or eq2?

They were the first to do it with EQ and it was brilliant. They carried it over into eq2 as well and I’m hoping they do it justice with their softer version of it in Eqnext. But besides that, to the thread…

The trinity is in place for a majority of reasons. It brings group synergy, it allows for tactics to be used in fights throughout the world, it gives each class a specific duty to accomplish(more synergy), synergy synergy synergy. Get where this is going?

When all you have is dps, fights become a race to finish and stale and boring and tactless. Much like we’ve seen over the past year with gw2 and are seeing even more now as people are making ascended gear and doing more dmg than the game was intended to accept.(the game has been built around exotics being max gear, ascended items are a part of the reason why things are so effected).

Everyone says “o holy trinity, LFhealer LFhealer!!” How is gw2 any different? “LFwar/zerk only ping gear!!” Atleast with the dreaded trinity you didnt always need a healer because we actually had support/control roles that could be used in place of a healer if one couldn’t be found. Now all we get is dps because that’s all we need. We are our own support/control and don’t even need a group to take down some of the hardest content in game…

They had an idea of a soft trinity which is good. But they failed miserably at the implementation.