Guild Wars 2

Raine.1394:

hellsmachine.4085:

Raine.1394:

killcannon.2576:

hellsmachine.4085:

killcannon.2576:

Reverence.6915:

3 game modes and 2 are PvP based. Combat in GW2 is largely balanced around PvP. Of course there shouldn’t be trinity.

Anyway, PvE in any MMO is mindless, boring and scripted. You’re either wailing away at a meat tank or you’re being killed in 2 hits or both (when you’re soloing content, not including grinding, which can be done with a bot). Why are we even discussing PvE here?

Because pvp has never really relied on a trinity in any game and doesn’t have a place in the topic? You get lost on the way to the pvp forum?

You don’t PvP much do you killcannon? Other MMOs it’s basically team with healers wins… If your team has no healers, but the other does you may aswell just afk…

incorrect, the team who kills the others healers first wins.

That is the central aspect of strategy, generally, though not the only one. If it’s arena, it might just be killing the squishiest one or ignoring the squishiest one for that matter. Combat is rather rich under the trinity, unlike the stack and wail combat of GW2.

If you really think trinity is so “rich” and GW2 PvP is stack and wail. Why are you even playing this game? There’s countless MMOs with trinity… Why don’t you just play them instead of trying to turn GW2 into one of them?

I’m playing WoW currently. Thanks for the info.

Doesn’t suprise me, why is the WoW crowd trying to turn GW2 into WoW? Are you fed up with paying a sub? Just want WoW with new gfx? Truly believe every other MMO should be like WoW? I mean we don’t get players from CoD or BF in here asking for guns, ammo, medics, tanks and “BOOM Headshot!” in this game so why you?

hellsmachine.4085:

Raine.1394:

hellsmachine.4085:

Raine.1394:

killcannon.2576:

hellsmachine.4085:

killcannon.2576:

Reverence.6915:

3 game modes and 2 are PvP based. Combat in GW2 is largely balanced around PvP. Of course there shouldn’t be trinity.

Anyway, PvE in any MMO is mindless, boring and scripted. You’re either wailing away at a meat tank or you’re being killed in 2 hits or both (when you’re soloing content, not including grinding, which can be done with a bot). Why are we even discussing PvE here?

Because pvp has never really relied on a trinity in any game and doesn’t have a place in the topic? You get lost on the way to the pvp forum?

You don’t PvP much do you killcannon? Other MMOs it’s basically team with healers wins… If your team has no healers, but the other does you may aswell just afk…

incorrect, the team who kills the others healers first wins.

That is the central aspect of strategy, generally, though not the only one. If it’s arena, it might just be killing the squishiest one or ignoring the squishiest one for that matter. Combat is rather rich under the trinity, unlike the stack and wail combat of GW2.

If you really think trinity is so “rich” and GW2 PvP is stack and wail. Why are you even playing this game? There’s countless MMOs with trinity… Why don’t you just play them instead of trying to turn GW2 into one of them?

I’m playing WoW currently. Thanks for the info.

Doesn’t suprise me, why is the WoW crowd trying to turn GW2 into WoW? Are you fed up with paying a sub? Just want WoW with new gfx? Truly believe every other MMO should be like WoW? I mean we don’t get players from CoD or BF in here asking for guns, ammo, medics and tanks in this game so why you?

Na, I believe MMO’s should have more depth than choosing the best DPS build out of a handful of DPS builds.

Apathy.6430:

hellsmachine.4085:

Raine.1394:

hellsmachine.4085:

Raine.1394:

killcannon.2576:

hellsmachine.4085:

killcannon.2576:

Reverence.6915:

3 game modes and 2 are PvP based. Combat in GW2 is largely balanced around PvP. Of course there shouldn’t be trinity.

Anyway, PvE in any MMO is mindless, boring and scripted. You’re either wailing away at a meat tank or you’re being killed in 2 hits or both (when you’re soloing content, not including grinding, which can be done with a bot). Why are we even discussing PvE here?

Because pvp has never really relied on a trinity in any game and doesn’t have a place in the topic? You get lost on the way to the pvp forum?

You don’t PvP much do you killcannon? Other MMOs it’s basically team with healers wins… If your team has no healers, but the other does you may aswell just afk…

incorrect, the team who kills the others healers first wins.

That is the central aspect of strategy, generally, though not the only one. If it’s arena, it might just be killing the squishiest one or ignoring the squishiest one for that matter. Combat is rather rich under the trinity, unlike the stack and wail combat of GW2.

If you really think trinity is so “rich” and GW2 PvP is stack and wail. Why are you even playing this game? There’s countless MMOs with trinity… Why don’t you just play them instead of trying to turn GW2 into one of them?

I’m playing WoW currently. Thanks for the info.

Doesn’t suprise me, why is the WoW crowd trying to turn GW2 into WoW? Are you fed up with paying a sub? Just want WoW with new gfx? Truly believe every other MMO should be like WoW? I mean we don’t get players from CoD or BF in here asking for guns, ammo, medics and tanks in this game so why you?

Na, I believe MMO’s should have more depth than choosing the best DPS build out of a handful of DPS builds.

But you already have that in WoW? Why do you feel you need it here? The rest of us are happy with choosing a certain “DPS” build… Why do you feel people who don’t like trinity don’t deserve an alternative?

hellsmachine.4085:

Apathy.6430:

hellsmachine.4085:

Raine.1394:

hellsmachine.4085:

Raine.1394:

killcannon.2576:

hellsmachine.4085:

killcannon.2576:

Reverence.6915:

3 game modes and 2 are PvP based. Combat in GW2 is largely balanced around PvP. Of course there shouldn’t be trinity.

Anyway, PvE in any MMO is mindless, boring and scripted. You’re either wailing away at a meat tank or you’re being killed in 2 hits or both (when you’re soloing content, not including grinding, which can be done with a bot). Why are we even discussing PvE here?

Because pvp has never really relied on a trinity in any game and doesn’t have a place in the topic? You get lost on the way to the pvp forum?

You don’t PvP much do you killcannon? Other MMOs it’s basically team with healers wins… If your team has no healers, but the other does you may aswell just afk…

incorrect, the team who kills the others healers first wins.

That is the central aspect of strategy, generally, though not the only one. If it’s arena, it might just be killing the squishiest one or ignoring the squishiest one for that matter. Combat is rather rich under the trinity, unlike the stack and wail combat of GW2.

If you really think trinity is so “rich” and GW2 PvP is stack and wail. Why are you even playing this game? There’s countless MMOs with trinity… Why don’t you just play them instead of trying to turn GW2 into one of them?

I’m playing WoW currently. Thanks for the info.

Doesn’t suprise me, why is the WoW crowd trying to turn GW2 into WoW? Are you fed up with paying a sub? Just want WoW with new gfx? Truly believe every other MMO should be like WoW? I mean we don’t get players from CoD or BF in here asking for guns, ammo, medics and tanks in this game so why you?

Na, I believe MMO’s should have more depth than choosing the best DPS build out of a handful of DPS builds.

But you already have that in WoW?

Surely you’re not this daft?

Plenty of other MMOs don’t have the trinty, why do you want GW2?

hellsmachine.4085:

Raine.1394:

killcannon.2576:

hellsmachine.4085:

killcannon.2576:

Reverence.6915:

3 game modes and 2 are PvP based. Combat in GW2 is largely balanced around PvP. Of course there shouldn’t be trinity.

Anyway, PvE in any MMO is mindless, boring and scripted. You’re either wailing away at a meat tank or you’re being killed in 2 hits or both (when you’re soloing content, not including grinding, which can be done with a bot). Why are we even discussing PvE here?

Because pvp has never really relied on a trinity in any game and doesn’t have a place in the topic? You get lost on the way to the pvp forum?

You don’t PvP much do you killcannon? Other MMOs it’s basically team with healers wins… If your team has no healers, but the other does you may aswell just afk…

incorrect, the team who kills the others healers first wins.

That is the central aspect of strategy, generally, though not the only one. If it’s arena, it might just be killing the squishiest one or ignoring the squishiest one for that matter. Combat is rather rich under the trinity, unlike the stack and wail combat of GW2.

If you really think trinity is so “rich” and GW2 PvP is stack and wail. Why are you even playing this game? There’s countless MMOs with trinity… Why don’t you just play them instead of trying to turn GW2 into one of them?

I just don’t see how anyone can say the lack of defined rolls makes this game better than any other. It just makes it one dimensional. There needs to be a reason for build diversity adopted and implemented in game.

I want toughness, vitality, and healing power to synergize better with a characters skills.

If I decide to make a high vitality build, I want it to give me a bonus on dodges, or an extra dodge meter or a bonus defense versus condition damage.

I want toughness to synergize with defensive skills more. I want it to extend block times with shields, increase counter damage for skills that have such, I want it to extend durations on defensive skills or increase their potency.

I want healing power to give more than just bonus healing. If it’s high enough, I want chances for extra effects, I want heals to matter to my teammates more than “x player drop water field, and 20 players burst finish in it”, I want chances of reviving downed allies with high heals.

I want more than just crit dmg and power to synergize with my skills so that if I do choose to go that route, it’s not just a wasted effort. A toughness, vitality build should synergize with skills as well as a zerker build.

But it doesn’t. There is no incentive to do anything other than stack as much dps as my skill will allow. And that’s one dimensional game play.

hellsmachine.4085:

Apathy.6430:

hellsmachine.4085:

Raine.1394:

hellsmachine.4085:

Raine.1394:

killcannon.2576:

hellsmachine.4085:

killcannon.2576:

Reverence.6915:

3 game modes and 2 are PvP based. Combat in GW2 is largely balanced around PvP. Of course there shouldn’t be trinity.

Anyway, PvE in any MMO is mindless, boring and scripted. You’re either wailing away at a meat tank or you’re being killed in 2 hits or both (when you’re soloing content, not including grinding, which can be done with a bot). Why are we even discussing PvE here?

Because pvp has never really relied on a trinity in any game and doesn’t have a place in the topic? You get lost on the way to the pvp forum?

You don’t PvP much do you killcannon? Other MMOs it’s basically team with healers wins… If your team has no healers, but the other does you may aswell just afk…

incorrect, the team who kills the others healers first wins.

That is the central aspect of strategy, generally, though not the only one. If it’s arena, it might just be killing the squishiest one or ignoring the squishiest one for that matter. Combat is rather rich under the trinity, unlike the stack and wail combat of GW2.

If you really think trinity is so “rich” and GW2 PvP is stack and wail. Why are you even playing this game? There’s countless MMOs with trinity… Why don’t you just play them instead of trying to turn GW2 into one of them?

I’m playing WoW currently. Thanks for the info.

Doesn’t suprise me, why is the WoW crowd trying to turn GW2 into WoW? Are you fed up with paying a sub? Just want WoW with new gfx? Truly believe every other MMO should be like WoW? I mean we don’t get players from CoD or BF in here asking for guns, ammo, medics and tanks in this game so why you?

Na, I believe MMO’s should have more depth than choosing the best DPS build out of a handful of DPS builds.

But you already have that in WoW? Why do you feel you need it here? The rest of us are happy with choosing a certain “DPS” build… Why do you feel people who don’t like trinity don’t deserve an alternative?

I wish people would stop with the “go play wow if you want that” crap. Here’s why people can rightfully want it here. Gw2 combat/game itself isn’t like wow. Wow is entirely tab targeting, etc. Its an entirely different game. A trinity isn’t the ONLY kitten difference between gw2 and WoW…

Also, this game was made to have different roles. Poor DESIGN is the only reason nothing else works but dps, not because you’re not supposed to play them.
- GW2 did have a trinity, it was labeled as DPS, Support and Utility. Support isn’t potent enough to be worth having when top dps builds can just splash 25 might and you can dps everything down in seconds (literally) and utility is too vague. So essentially we end up with only dps who have so e support and so a utility.
-GW2 has various stat types for this reason. Why else would toughness and healing power even exist? The worst part is these both tend to scale worse than offense stats. Again, just a poor design issue. For mobs to kill dps due to downed state, the game is riddled with 1 shot effects, which means doing 1/4 damage to survive barely longer and still get 1 shot by boss mechanics means you’re just wasting potential.

Gw2 had a trinity and a potential to be a very good team oriented game, instead they literally turned it into a hack and slash with a lot of pretend choices. (pve wise) PVP is a whollleeee other issue….

Apathy.6430:

killcannon.2576:

hellsmachine.4085:

killcannon.2576:

Jski.6180:

Rin.1046:

Players who want the traditional trinity want it for one of two reasons:

1, They haven’t found a profession, build or playstyle that suits them yet. Or..
2, The feel of the combat and how it plays overall just doesn’t suit them.

There is a 3ed reason they cant chose for them self when they have a chose they need to have something chosen for them. They want to be in a box and not think outside of it.

There also a 4th but is a support tank only point of view they want to feel important and want other ppl to think them for playing the less played class type. They want to feel self important by the “pain” they must endure.

Uh…you do realize there is only one choice when you play GW2?

DPS

Sorta weird you think that this game has more choice than the trinity.

Oh really? How’s that working for you in PvP?

I don’t know, throw 5 bunkers at 5 dps centric builds and tell me.

Throw 5 tanks into most WoW dungeons and they will fail as well.

A balanced PvP group will beat 5 pure DPS.

Unfortunately, the same is far from true in PvE, and it is why I have quit playing it even though I’m by far a more PvE person.

Luckily, I didn’t say pure dps.

Apathy.6430:

hellsmachine.4085:

Apathy.6430:

hellsmachine.4085:

Raine.1394:

hellsmachine.4085:

Raine.1394:

killcannon.2576:

hellsmachine.4085:

killcannon.2576:

Reverence.6915:

3 game modes and 2 are PvP based. Combat in GW2 is largely balanced around PvP. Of course there shouldn’t be trinity.

Anyway, PvE in any MMO is mindless, boring and scripted. You’re either wailing away at a meat tank or you’re being killed in 2 hits or both (when you’re soloing content, not including grinding, which can be done with a bot). Why are we even discussing PvE here?

Because pvp has never really relied on a trinity in any game and doesn’t have a place in the topic? You get lost on the way to the pvp forum?

You don’t PvP much do you killcannon? Other MMOs it’s basically team with healers wins… If your team has no healers, but the other does you may aswell just afk…

incorrect, the team who kills the others healers first wins.

That is the central aspect of strategy, generally, though not the only one. If it’s arena, it might just be killing the squishiest one or ignoring the squishiest one for that matter. Combat is rather rich under the trinity, unlike the stack and wail combat of GW2.

If you really think trinity is so “rich” and GW2 PvP is stack and wail. Why are you even playing this game? There’s countless MMOs with trinity… Why don’t you just play them instead of trying to turn GW2 into one of them?

I’m playing WoW currently. Thanks for the info.

Doesn’t suprise me, why is the WoW crowd trying to turn GW2 into WoW? Are you fed up with paying a sub? Just want WoW with new gfx? Truly believe every other MMO should be like WoW? I mean we don’t get players from CoD or BF in here asking for guns, ammo, medics and tanks in this game so why you?

Na, I believe MMO’s should have more depth than choosing the best DPS build out of a handful of DPS builds.

But you already have that in WoW?

Surely you’re not this daft?

Plenty of other MMOs don’t have the trinty, why do you want GW2?

Surely you are… Answering my question with a question…. Name a triple A MMO with no trinity? An answer this time plz… Not a question…

hellsmachine.4085:

Apathy.6430:

hellsmachine.4085:

Apathy.6430:

hellsmachine.4085:

Raine.1394:

hellsmachine.4085:

Raine.1394:

killcannon.2576:

hellsmachine.4085:

killcannon.2576:

Reverence.6915:

3 game modes and 2 are PvP based. Combat in GW2 is largely balanced around PvP. Of course there shouldn’t be trinity.

Anyway, PvE in any MMO is mindless, boring and scripted. You’re either wailing away at a meat tank or you’re being killed in 2 hits or both (when you’re soloing content, not including grinding, which can be done with a bot). Why are we even discussing PvE here?

Because pvp has never really relied on a trinity in any game and doesn’t have a place in the topic? You get lost on the way to the pvp forum?

You don’t PvP much do you killcannon? Other MMOs it’s basically team with healers wins… If your team has no healers, but the other does you may aswell just afk…

incorrect, the team who kills the others healers first wins.

That is the central aspect of strategy, generally, though not the only one. If it’s arena, it might just be killing the squishiest one or ignoring the squishiest one for that matter. Combat is rather rich under the trinity, unlike the stack and wail combat of GW2.

If you really think trinity is so “rich” and GW2 PvP is stack and wail. Why are you even playing this game? There’s countless MMOs with trinity… Why don’t you just play them instead of trying to turn GW2 into one of them?

I’m playing WoW currently. Thanks for the info.

Doesn’t suprise me, why is the WoW crowd trying to turn GW2 into WoW? Are you fed up with paying a sub? Just want WoW with new gfx? Truly believe every other MMO should be like WoW? I mean we don’t get players from CoD or BF in here asking for guns, ammo, medics and tanks in this game so why you?

Na, I believe MMO’s should have more depth than choosing the best DPS build out of a handful of DPS builds.

But you already have that in WoW?

Surely you’re not this daft?

Plenty of other MMOs don’t have the trinty, why do you want GW2?

Surely you are… Answering my question with a question…. Name a triple A MMO with no trinity? An answer this time plz… Not a question…

Runescape

Hell, GW1 didn’t even have the trinity in the traditional sense.

There’s a lot of distance between the traditional trinity and “the only things that matter are DPS and dodging”.

EVE also doesn’t have the trinity, why don’t you go play that? Alternatively, you just stop using that awful myopic argument.

hellsmachine.4085:

Apathy.6430:

hellsmachine.4085:

Apathy.6430:

hellsmachine.4085:

Raine.1394:

hellsmachine.4085:

Raine.1394:

killcannon.2576:

hellsmachine.4085:

killcannon.2576:

Reverence.6915:

3 game modes and 2 are PvP based. Combat in GW2 is largely balanced around PvP. Of course there shouldn’t be trinity.

Anyway, PvE in any MMO is mindless, boring and scripted. You’re either wailing away at a meat tank or you’re being killed in 2 hits or both (when you’re soloing content, not including grinding, which can be done with a bot). Why are we even discussing PvE here?

Because pvp has never really relied on a trinity in any game and doesn’t have a place in the topic? You get lost on the way to the pvp forum?

You don’t PvP much do you killcannon? Other MMOs it’s basically team with healers wins… If your team has no healers, but the other does you may aswell just afk…

incorrect, the team who kills the others healers first wins.

That is the central aspect of strategy, generally, though not the only one. If it’s arena, it might just be killing the squishiest one or ignoring the squishiest one for that matter. Combat is rather rich under the trinity, unlike the stack and wail combat of GW2.

If you really think trinity is so “rich” and GW2 PvP is stack and wail. Why are you even playing this game? There’s countless MMOs with trinity… Why don’t you just play them instead of trying to turn GW2 into one of them?

I’m playing WoW currently. Thanks for the info.

Doesn’t suprise me, why is the WoW crowd trying to turn GW2 into WoW? Are you fed up with paying a sub? Just want WoW with new gfx? Truly believe every other MMO should be like WoW? I mean we don’t get players from CoD or BF in here asking for guns, ammo, medics and tanks in this game so why you?

Na, I believe MMO’s should have more depth than choosing the best DPS build out of a handful of DPS builds.

But you already have that in WoW?

Surely you’re not this daft?

Plenty of other MMOs don’t have the trinty, why do you want GW2?

Surely you are… Answering my question with a question…. Name a triple A MMO with no trinity? An answer this time plz… Not a question…

The issue you’re dodging is that GW2 only lacks its trinity due to bad design and poor planning. They fell into a one dimensional game that have take over and turned into burn or be 1 shot. I don’t care how much you personally like hack and slashes, its a poor design for an MMO which are supposed to be MULTIPLAYER team games. Not to mention its an RPG, with emphasis on the R (role). It’s not that hack and slashes aren’t fine, but longevity wise, there isn’t much, hence you really only see them as one player console games. For the audience that mmos tend to target, especially with the APPEARANCE of choice making, it certainly doesn’t hit the mark. If they wants a hack and slash game they could have just saved everyone the trouble and not added the other 3 trees and 90% of the stat combinations on gear…

Enjoy your Playing Game. >_>

Apathy.6430:

Hell, GW1 didn’t even have the trinity in the traditional sense.

There’s a lot of distance between the traditional trinity and “the only things that matter are DPS and dodging”.

EVE also doesn’t have the trinity, why don’t you go play that? Alternatively, you just stop using that awful myopic argument.

Because I don’t like space and I don’t like runescape… I also don’t like a lot of things about WoW, though I did like that game at one stage.

GW2 was supposed to be the alternative to WoW. Slowly being destroyed by the WoW crowd that cries for things like “I want carrot on a stick/gear grind” “I want Trinity” “I want PVP gear” “I want Pandas”. When they already have all that… I just don’t get it…

hellsmachine.4085:

Surely you are… Answering my question with a question…. Name a triple A MMO with no trinity? An answer this time plz… Not a question…

Guildwars 1

hellsmachine.4085:

Apathy.6430:

Hell, GW1 didn’t even have the trinity in the traditional sense.

There’s a lot of distance between the traditional trinity and “the only things that matter are DPS and dodging”.

EVE also doesn’t have the trinity, why don’t you go play that? Alternatively, you just stop using that awful myopic argument.

Because I don’t like space and I don’t like runescape… I also don’t like a lot of things about WoW, though I did like that game at one stage.

GW2 was supposed to be the alternative to WoW. Slowly being destroyed by the WoW crowd that cries for things like “I want carrot on a stick/gear grind” “I want Trinity” “I want PVP gear” “I want Pandas”. When they already have all that… I just don’t get it…

You may want to stop pointing the finger at the players and start wondering why the devs implemented those mechanics in the first place.

Hint: Because everyone was leaving the game.

No one wanted the gear grind, they wanted Character Progression. Devs decided on the type, not the players.

Not many want the trinity, they just want more meaningful roles to play.

Not many want power creep in pvp, they just want some kind of meaningful progression as well.

You’re blaming the wrong people.

hellsmachine.4085:

Apathy.6430:

Hell, GW1 didn’t even have the trinity in the traditional sense.

There’s a lot of distance between the traditional trinity and “the only things that matter are DPS and dodging”.

EVE also doesn’t have the trinity, why don’t you go play that? Alternatively, you just stop using that awful myopic argument.

Because I don’t like space and I don’t like runescape… I also don’t like a lot of things about WoW, though I did like that game at one stage.

Ah, so you’ve finally realized this isn’t being discussed within a vacuum. We’re making progress.

killcannon.2576:

hellsmachine.4085:

Apathy.6430:

Hell, GW1 didn’t even have the trinity in the traditional sense.

There’s a lot of distance between the traditional trinity and “the only things that matter are DPS and dodging”.

EVE also doesn’t have the trinity, why don’t you go play that? Alternatively, you just stop using that awful myopic argument.

Because I don’t like space and I don’t like runescape… I also don’t like a lot of things about WoW, though I did like that game at one stage.

GW2 was supposed to be the alternative to WoW. Slowly being destroyed by the WoW crowd that cries for things like “I want carrot on a stick/gear grind” “I want Trinity” “I want PVP gear” “I want Pandas”. When they already have all that… I just don’t get it…

You may want to stop pointing the finger at the players and start wondering why the devs implemented those mechanics in the first place.

Hint: Because everyone was leaving the game.

No, the WoW crowd was simply returning to WoW. It happens in every single MMORPG since WoW.

hellsmachine.4085:

No, the WoW crowd was simply returning to WoW. It happens in every single MMORPG since WoW.

Clearly not, as it’s subscription base is lower than it has been in years.

Apathy.6430:

hellsmachine.4085:

No, the WoW crowd was simply returning to WoW. It happens in every single MMORPG since WoW.

Clearly not, as it’s subscription base is lower than it has been in years.

I blame the Pandas…

Apathy.6430:

hellsmachine.4085:

No, the WoW crowd was simply returning to WoW. It happens in every single MMORPG since WoW.

Clearly not, as it’s subscription base is lower than it has been in years.

Also based on numbers a large bulk of the now crowd isn’t the same as the beginning wow players, many are new over the course of expansions. Just one of those silly myths “Once a WoW player, always a WoW player.”

hellsmachine.4085:

Apathy.6430:

hellsmachine.4085:

No, the WoW crowd was simply returning to WoW. It happens in every single MMORPG since WoW.

Clearly not, as it’s subscription base is lower than it has been in years.

I blame the Pandas…

Pandaren’s were part of the Warcraft lore well before WoW was even released.

killcannon.2576:

hellsmachine.4085:

Raine.1394:

killcannon.2576:

hellsmachine.4085:

killcannon.2576:

Reverence.6915:

3 game modes and 2 are PvP based. Combat in GW2 is largely balanced around PvP. Of course there shouldn’t be trinity.

Anyway, PvE in any MMO is mindless, boring and scripted. You’re either wailing away at a meat tank or you’re being killed in 2 hits or both (when you’re soloing content, not including grinding, which can be done with a bot). Why are we even discussing PvE here?

Because pvp has never really relied on a trinity in any game and doesn’t have a place in the topic? You get lost on the way to the pvp forum?

You don’t PvP much do you killcannon? Other MMOs it’s basically team with healers wins… If your team has no healers, but the other does you may aswell just afk…

incorrect, the team who kills the others healers first wins.

That is the central aspect of strategy, generally, though not the only one. If it’s arena, it might just be killing the squishiest one or ignoring the squishiest one for that matter. Combat is rather rich under the trinity, unlike the stack and wail combat of GW2.

If you really think trinity is so “rich” and GW2 PvP is stack and wail. Why are you even playing this game? There’s countless MMOs with trinity… Why don’t you just play them instead of trying to turn GW2 into one of them?

I just don’t see how anyone can say the lack of defined rolls makes this game better than any other. It just makes it one dimensional. There needs to be a reason for build diversity adopted and implemented in game.

I want toughness, vitality, and healing power to synergize better with a characters skills.

If I decide to make a high vitality build, I want it to give me a bonus on dodges, or an extra dodge meter or a bonus defense versus condition damage.

I want toughness to synergize with defensive skills more. I want it to extend block times with shields, increase counter damage for skills that have such, I want it to extend durations on defensive skills or increase their potency.

I want healing power to give more than just bonus healing. If it’s high enough, I want chances for extra effects, I want heals to matter to my teammates more than “x player drop water field, and 20 players burst finish in it”, I want chances of reviving downed allies with high heals.

I want more than just crit dmg and power to synergize with my skills so that if I do choose to go that route, it’s not just a wasted effort. A toughness, vitality build should synergize with skills as well as a zerker build.

But it doesn’t. There is no incentive to do anything other than stack as much dps as my skill will allow. And that’s one dimensional game play.

That’s probably a better idea than asking for Trinity…

hellsmachine.4085:

killcannon.2576:

hellsmachine.4085:

Raine.1394:

killcannon.2576:

hellsmachine.4085:

killcannon.2576:

Reverence.6915:

3 game modes and 2 are PvP based. Combat in GW2 is largely balanced around PvP. Of course there shouldn’t be trinity.

Anyway, PvE in any MMO is mindless, boring and scripted. You’re either wailing away at a meat tank or you’re being killed in 2 hits or both (when you’re soloing content, not including grinding, which can be done with a bot). Why are we even discussing PvE here?

Because pvp has never really relied on a trinity in any game and doesn’t have a place in the topic? You get lost on the way to the pvp forum?

You don’t PvP much do you killcannon? Other MMOs it’s basically team with healers wins… If your team has no healers, but the other does you may aswell just afk…

incorrect, the team who kills the others healers first wins.

That is the central aspect of strategy, generally, though not the only one. If it’s arena, it might just be killing the squishiest one or ignoring the squishiest one for that matter. Combat is rather rich under the trinity, unlike the stack and wail combat of GW2.

If you really think trinity is so “rich” and GW2 PvP is stack and wail. Why are you even playing this game? There’s countless MMOs with trinity… Why don’t you just play them instead of trying to turn GW2 into one of them?

I just don’t see how anyone can say the lack of defined rolls makes this game better than any other. It just makes it one dimensional. There needs to be a reason for build diversity adopted and implemented in game.

I want toughness, vitality, and healing power to synergize better with a characters skills.

If I decide to make a high vitality build, I want it to give me a bonus on dodges, or an extra dodge meter or a bonus defense versus condition damage.

I want toughness to synergize with defensive skills more. I want it to extend block times with shields, increase counter damage for skills that have such, I want it to extend durations on defensive skills or increase their potency.

I want healing power to give more than just bonus healing. If it’s high enough, I want chances for extra effects, I want heals to matter to my teammates more than “x player drop water field, and 20 players burst finish in it”, I want chances of reviving downed allies with high heals.

I want more than just crit dmg and power to synergize with my skills so that if I do choose to go that route, it’s not just a wasted effort. A toughness, vitality build should synergize with skills as well as a zerker build.

But it doesn’t. There is no incentive to do anything other than stack as much dps as my skill will allow. And that’s one dimensional game play.

That’s probably a better idea than asking for Trinity…

Yeah, I’m not sure anyone here wants an exact trinity.

I’m sure people would be pretty happy with a system from a game that people may have heard of, called Guild Wars.

Apathy.6430:

hellsmachine.4085:

Apathy.6430:

hellsmachine.4085:

No, the WoW crowd was simply returning to WoW. It happens in every single MMORPG since WoW.

Clearly not, as it’s subscription base is lower than it has been in years.

I blame the Pandas…

Pandaren’s were part of the Warcraft lore well before WoW was even released.

I know and I’ve heard this many times, but it was still a bad idea. Any way this is starting to go off the rails….

hellsmachine.4085:

killcannon.2576:

hellsmachine.4085:

Raine.1394:

killcannon.2576:

hellsmachine.4085:

killcannon.2576:

Reverence.6915:

3 game modes and 2 are PvP based. Combat in GW2 is largely balanced around PvP. Of course there shouldn’t be trinity.

Anyway, PvE in any MMO is mindless, boring and scripted. You’re either wailing away at a meat tank or you’re being killed in 2 hits or both (when you’re soloing content, not including grinding, which can be done with a bot). Why are we even discussing PvE here?

Because pvp has never really relied on a trinity in any game and doesn’t have a place in the topic? You get lost on the way to the pvp forum?

You don’t PvP much do you killcannon? Other MMOs it’s basically team with healers wins… If your team has no healers, but the other does you may aswell just afk…

incorrect, the team who kills the others healers first wins.

That is the central aspect of strategy, generally, though not the only one. If it’s arena, it might just be killing the squishiest one or ignoring the squishiest one for that matter. Combat is rather rich under the trinity, unlike the stack and wail combat of GW2.

If you really think trinity is so “rich” and GW2 PvP is stack and wail. Why are you even playing this game? There’s countless MMOs with trinity… Why don’t you just play them instead of trying to turn GW2 into one of them?

I just don’t see how anyone can say the lack of defined rolls makes this game better than any other. It just makes it one dimensional. There needs to be a reason for build diversity adopted and implemented in game.

I want toughness, vitality, and healing power to synergize better with a characters skills.

If I decide to make a high vitality build, I want it to give me a bonus on dodges, or an extra dodge meter or a bonus defense versus condition damage.

I want toughness to synergize with defensive skills more. I want it to extend block times with shields, increase counter damage for skills that have such, I want it to extend durations on defensive skills or increase their potency.

I want healing power to give more than just bonus healing. If it’s high enough, I want chances for extra effects, I want heals to matter to my teammates more than “x player drop water field, and 20 players burst finish in it”, I want chances of reviving downed allies with high heals.

I want more than just crit dmg and power to synergize with my skills so that if I do choose to go that route, it’s not just a wasted effort. A toughness, vitality build should synergize with skills as well as a zerker build.

But it doesn’t. There is no incentive to do anything other than stack as much dps as my skill will allow. And that’s one dimensional game play.

That’s probably a better idea than asking for Trinity…

And really, that’s all players want.

Apathy.6430:

hellsmachine.4085:

Apathy.6430:

hellsmachine.4085:

No, the WoW crowd was simply returning to WoW. It happens in every single MMORPG since WoW.

Clearly not, as it’s subscription base is lower than it has been in years.

I blame the Pandas…

Pandaren’s were part of the Warcraft lore well before WoW was even released.

That and actually MoP RELEASE spiked their subs. Pandas were actually kind of a sub-grab more than a sub killer. Unfortunately kiddos who like Kungfu panda and cute stuff just weren’t prepared for the massive beast that WoW is now. Not to mention, it is like 8-10 years old now or something like that? Apparently they did something right to have 7 mill after 8 years where GW2 is struggling not even 2 years in. I’m sorry to say, but those saying GW2 is super awesome and innovative and fun are just that, a minority. A minority of people have enjoyed weirder things, not surprising SOMEONE can enjoy it. Doesn’t make it good design.

Apathy.6430:

hellsmachine.4085:

killcannon.2576:

hellsmachine.4085:

Raine.1394:

killcannon.2576:

hellsmachine.4085:

killcannon.2576:

Reverence.6915:

3 game modes and 2 are PvP based. Combat in GW2 is largely balanced around PvP. Of course there shouldn’t be trinity.

Anyway, PvE in any MMO is mindless, boring and scripted. You’re either wailing away at a meat tank or you’re being killed in 2 hits or both (when you’re soloing content, not including grinding, which can be done with a bot). Why are we even discussing PvE here?

Because pvp has never really relied on a trinity in any game and doesn’t have a place in the topic? You get lost on the way to the pvp forum?

You don’t PvP much do you killcannon? Other MMOs it’s basically team with healers wins… If your team has no healers, but the other does you may aswell just afk…

incorrect, the team who kills the others healers first wins.

That is the central aspect of strategy, generally, though not the only one. If it’s arena, it might just be killing the squishiest one or ignoring the squishiest one for that matter. Combat is rather rich under the trinity, unlike the stack and wail combat of GW2.

If you really think trinity is so “rich” and GW2 PvP is stack and wail. Why are you even playing this game? There’s countless MMOs with trinity… Why don’t you just play them instead of trying to turn GW2 into one of them?

I just don’t see how anyone can say the lack of defined rolls makes this game better than any other. It just makes it one dimensional. There needs to be a reason for build diversity adopted and implemented in game.

I want toughness, vitality, and healing power to synergize better with a characters skills.

If I decide to make a high vitality build, I want it to give me a bonus on dodges, or an extra dodge meter or a bonus defense versus condition damage.

I want toughness to synergize with defensive skills more. I want it to extend block times with shields, increase counter damage for skills that have such, I want it to extend durations on defensive skills or increase their potency.

I want healing power to give more than just bonus healing. If it’s high enough, I want chances for extra effects, I want heals to matter to my teammates more than “x player drop water field, and 20 players burst finish in it”, I want chances of reviving downed allies with high heals.

I want more than just crit dmg and power to synergize with my skills so that if I do choose to go that route, it’s not just a wasted effort. A toughness, vitality build should synergize with skills as well as a zerker build.

But it doesn’t. There is no incentive to do anything other than stack as much dps as my skill will allow. And that’s one dimensional game play.

That’s probably a better idea than asking for Trinity…

Yeah, I’m not sure anyone here wants an exact trinity.

I’m sure people would be pretty happy with a system from a game that people may have heard of, called Guild Wars.

I was hoping for something like that too

killcannon.2576:

I just don’t see how anyone can say the lack of defined rolls makes this game better than any other. It just makes it one dimensional. There needs to be a reason for build diversity adopted and implemented in game.

I want toughness, vitality, and healing power to synergize better with a characters skills.

If I decide to make a high vitality build, I want it to give me a bonus on dodges, or an extra dodge meter or a bonus defense versus condition damage.

I want toughness to synergize with defensive skills more. I want it to extend block times with shields, increase counter damage for skills that have such, I want it to extend durations on defensive skills or increase their potency.

I want healing power to give more than just bonus healing. If it’s high enough, I want chances for extra effects, I want heals to matter to my teammates more than “x player drop water field, and 20 players burst finish in it”, I want chances of reviving downed allies with high heals.

I want more than just crit dmg and power to synergize with my skills so that if I do choose to go that route, it’s not just a wasted effort. A toughness, vitality build should synergize with skills as well as a zerker build.

But it doesn’t. There is no incentive to do anything other than stack as much dps as my skill will allow. And that’s one dimensional game play.

^
|
AMEN,

why all the people here that say “if you want trinity gtfo” cant see this?

we DONT WANT wow type of trinity, we want more than one viable build ! and don’t you dare to push sPvP into this debate, it has nothing to do with sPvP, sPvP has its own gear and it is balanced around 1v1 and 5v5 HUMAN players.

if you go to marionette with cleric ele, your platform will lose. yes everybody will probably be alive but you will not be able to DPS the champ on time.

if you go 5 condition classes you will also lose because half of your DPS will be wasted.

if you put squad of 30 bunkers in the gauntlet before the energy gate, you will reach max energy bar because every kittened champ will run thru you with half health and dive into the gate.

your only viable choice is going raw DPS.
with raw DPS you can still dodge, still block, still reflect, you have all the boons, you sacrifice nothing, you gain everything with max DPS.

ronpierce.2760:

hellsmachine.4085:

Apathy.6430:

hellsmachine.4085:

Raine.1394:

hellsmachine.4085:

Raine.1394:

killcannon.2576:

hellsmachine.4085:

killcannon.2576:

Reverence.6915:

3 game modes and 2 are PvP based. Combat in GW2 is largely balanced around PvP. Of course there shouldn’t be trinity.

Anyway, PvE in any MMO is mindless, boring and scripted. You’re either wailing away at a meat tank or you’re being killed in 2 hits or both (when you’re soloing content, not including grinding, which can be done with a bot). Why are we even discussing PvE here?

Because pvp has never really relied on a trinity in any game and doesn’t have a place in the topic? You get lost on the way to the pvp forum?

You don’t PvP much do you killcannon? Other MMOs it’s basically team with healers wins… If your team has no healers, but the other does you may aswell just afk…

incorrect, the team who kills the others healers first wins.

That is the central aspect of strategy, generally, though not the only one. If it’s arena, it might just be killing the squishiest one or ignoring the squishiest one for that matter. Combat is rather rich under the trinity, unlike the stack and wail combat of GW2.

If you really think trinity is so “rich” and GW2 PvP is stack and wail. Why are you even playing this game? There’s countless MMOs with trinity… Why don’t you just play them instead of trying to turn GW2 into one of them?

I’m playing WoW currently. Thanks for the info.

Doesn’t suprise me, why is the WoW crowd trying to turn GW2 into WoW? Are you fed up with paying a sub? Just want WoW with new gfx? Truly believe every other MMO should be like WoW? I mean we don’t get players from CoD or BF in here asking for guns, ammo, medics and tanks in this game so why you?

Na, I believe MMO’s should have more depth than choosing the best DPS build out of a handful of DPS builds.

But you already have that in WoW? Why do you feel you need it here? The rest of us are happy with choosing a certain “DPS” build… Why do you feel people who don’t like trinity don’t deserve an alternative?

I wish people would stop with the “go play wow if you want that” crap. Here’s why people can rightfully want it here. Gw2 combat/game itself isn’t like wow. Wow is entirely tab targeting, etc. Its an entirely different game. A trinity isn’t the ONLY kitten difference between gw2 and WoW…

Also, this game was made to have different roles. Poor DESIGN is the only reason nothing else works but dps, not because you’re not supposed to play them.
- GW2 did have a trinity, it was labeled as DPS, Support and Utility. Support isn’t potent enough to be worth having when top dps builds can just splash 25 might and you can dps everything down in seconds (literally) and utility is too vague. So essentially we end up with only dps who have so e support and so a utility.
-GW2 has various stat types for this reason. Why else would toughness and healing power even exist? The worst part is these both tend to scale worse than offense stats. Again, just a poor design issue. For mobs to kill dps due to downed state, the game is riddled with 1 shot effects, which means doing 1/4 damage to survive barely longer and still get 1 shot by boss mechanics means you’re just wasting potential.

Gw2 had a trinity and a potential to be a very good team oriented game, instead they literally turned it into a hack and slash with a lot of pretend choices. (pve wise) PVP is a whollleeee other issue….

Someone else who knows what’s up, yet no one responds to logical posts they only want to bicker and try to put a stranger on their place. Lol

You hit the nail on the head. It’s not the fact that we want a trinity in gw2. It’s the fact that the game could’ve been so much more than the spam feast it is now but every other type of build becomes useless with the core mechanics of the game. Dps is and has been the only way to play this game and it will never change. All we can do now is sit patiently in LA or run mindlessly chasing scarlet until the best big mmo comes out that’s shinier and prettier. Till then all this thread is doing is acting like the game itself, a time waster/place holder for the next interesting topic to pop up that ppl can bicker over.

VOLKON.1290:

I tanked for years in WoW, both main and off tank. You’re forced to build encounters such that you account for one or two tanks based on the size of the party, a certain number of expected healers and then you calculate the rest based on a certain level of dps from everyone else. That is ridiculously limiting.

Except that Guild Wars 2 wouldn’t need to have that problem if it had roles. There is a difference between how Guild Wars 2 handles classes and how World of Warcraft handle them. Unlike World of Warcraft, Guild Wars 2’s classes are all hybrid and can do a bit of everything, and changing roles just takes a weapon swap. So Arenanet would have a lot more freedom in changing what a fight requires in terms of groups than Blizzard does. It would be a lot of fun to have groups juggling with their group roles on a boss by boss basis. Roles also don’t have to be limited to tank, healer and DPS: support, CC, kiting, what have you. Say the first boss of a dungeon favors a DPS race, the next one is easier if you have someone tank it but no healer needed, the third one is better if you have a lot of range and kite him, etc. And then there could be multiple strategies to bosses instead of just one that the devs force and players would debate what party is better. There would be no optimal group because while all classes can do a bit of everything, not all classes are as good at all roles. There would be no trinity, just different roles, and depending on the encounter players would shift their strategy.

It’s sad because Guild Wars 2 has the potential to be so much better in PvE than anything else, even World of Warcraft. And it wouldn’t take that much for it to go from terrible and mindnumbling to awesome and new. But instead we have that terrible “DPS zerk wars only or boot” meta and whenever someone makes suggestions to change things they get yelled to go back to WoW.

VOLKON.1290:

The Marionette fight as it stands now simply wouldn’t be anywhere near as fun or engaging if there was a trinity system in place. Look at the opening phases… stop the mobs from reaching the portal. Without a trinity everyone has to do their share to slow down and take down the mobs as well as look to help keep your people in your lane up and active. With a trinity you’d need two tanks per lane, one front and one back, with a healer for each tank and enough dps spread out to burn the mobs down. The mobs would get caught in a taunt and forget about hitting the portal, which poops on that mechanic. Then you have the portal/platform phase itself. You’re spread out randomly onto the five platforms each with a champion of it’s own… good luck with a trinity system there. Even if you forced it to work that’s five tanks and five healers plus three dps per platform or you fail.

You either haven’t really raided in World of Warcraft or you are dishonest. There are plenty of encounters in World of Warcraft that have those mechanics. For example, those mobs running to portals wouldn’t be disrupted by tanks because Blizzard would make them immune to taunts and ignore aggro.

The thing is, Blizzard can disable the trinity with tricks like that whenever it would ruin the challenge, whereas Arenanet can’t insert the trinity where it would make an encounter better because the game has no tanks and healers. There are also plenty of other things Arenanet can’t do that Blizzard does, like encounters that require controlling the boss, simply because you have no control over the boss without a stable aggro table. This is why I said that Arenanet’s current party mechanics are more limited without a trinity.

Treborlavok and Lalangamena if you read my last couple of posts you would see that we came to an understanding, try not to be so mad. It doesn’t help the matter and will most likely get the thread closed.

Bearhugger.4326:

Except that Guild Wars 2 wouldn’t need to have that problem if it had roles. There is a difference between how Guild Wars 2 handles classes and how World of Warcraft handle them. Unlike World of Warcraft, Guild Wars 2’s classes are all hybrid and can do a bit of everything, and changing roles just takes a weapon swap. So Arenanet would have a lot more freedom in changing what a fight requires in terms of groups than Blizzard does. It would be a lot of fun to have groups juggling with their group roles on a boss by boss basis. Roles also don’t have to be limited to tank, healer and DPS: support, CC, kiting, what have you.

It’s sad because Guild Wars 2 has the potential to be so much better in PvE than anything else, even World of Warcraft. And it wouldn’t take that much for it to go from terrible and mindnumbling to awesome and new. But instead we have that terrible “DPS zerk wars only or boot” meta and whenever someone makes suggestions to change things they get yelled to go back to WoW.

When I bought the game, that’s how I thought GW2 roles worked. I figured there was a trinity, but more leeway than WoW. I thought the elementalist could summon an earth shield and tank, the guardian could actually heal people and be worthwhile, and control would have value. Naturally, this is wrong.

It truly is sad. Pve could easily be better than WoW’s. Anet already got rid of the annoying part of raiding and progression – gear grinding by way of prior raids. I think they threw the baby out with the bathwater by getting rid of raids. Instead, we have “diet” bosses, where the real fight is against mass organization, lag, staying connected to the server, and everyone that doesn’t play well.

But hey! There is a tiny, boring flash of tanking now: Warden 1. It’s a start. Keep testing, Scarlet.

hellsmachine.4085:

Treborlavok and Lalangamena if you read my last couple of posts you would see that we came to an understanding, try not to be so mad. It doesn’t help the matter and will most likely get the thread closed.

Nah it’s all good. I’m not mad at all I’m just disappointed because this game could’ve been so much more. I was an avid eq/eq2 player for many years. So I love the trinity. But it was nice to have something come along with the hopes of a soft or no trinity. I just wish they would’ve done about it another way.. Maybe it was rushed maybe it es an oversight who knows. But the main thing is that the game is already too far along to change and not kitten off one majority if players or the other.

The game is still fun. But it will be replaced with bigger and better things. It’s the nature of the beast.

Treborlavok.3504:

hellsmachine.4085:

Treborlavok and Lalangamena if you read my last couple of posts you would see that we came to an understanding, try not to be so mad. It doesn’t help the matter and will most likely get the thread closed.

Nah it’s all good. I’m not mad at all I’m just disappointed because this game could’ve been so much more. I was an avid eq/eq2 player for many years. So I love the trinity. But it was nice to have something come along with the hopes of a soft or no trinity. I just wish they would’ve done about it another way.. Maybe it was rushed maybe it es an oversight who knows. But the main thing is that the game is already too far along to change and not kitten off one majority if players or the other.

The game is still fun. But it will be replaced with bigger and better things. It’s the nature of the beast.

ESO seems to have a pretty good “soft trinity” from what I hear.

Apathy.6430:

Treborlavok.3504:

hellsmachine.4085:

Treborlavok and Lalangamena if you read my last couple of posts you would see that we came to an understanding, try not to be so mad. It doesn’t help the matter and will most likely get the thread closed.

Nah it’s all good. I’m not mad at all I’m just disappointed because this game could’ve been so much more. I was an avid eq/eq2 player for many years. So I love the trinity. But it was nice to have something come along with the hopes of a soft or no trinity. I just wish they would’ve done about it another way.. Maybe it was rushed maybe it es an oversight who knows. But the main thing is that the game is already too far along to change and not kitten off one majority if players or the other.

The game is still fun. But it will be replaced with bigger and better things. It’s the nature of the beast.

ESO seems to have a pretty good “soft trinity” from what I hear.

Never trust marketing or beta tests. Wait for the game.

Looks like it will be fun for at least a month or two regardless.

killcannon.2576:

Apathy.6430:

Treborlavok.3504:

hellsmachine.4085:

Treborlavok and Lalangamena if you read my last couple of posts you would see that we came to an understanding, try not to be so mad. It doesn’t help the matter and will most likely get the thread closed.

Nah it’s all good. I’m not mad at all I’m just disappointed because this game could’ve been so much more. I was an avid eq/eq2 player for many years. So I love the trinity. But it was nice to have something come along with the hopes of a soft or no trinity. I just wish they would’ve done about it another way.. Maybe it was rushed maybe it es an oversight who knows. But the main thing is that the game is already too far along to change and not kitten off one majority if players or the other.

The game is still fun. But it will be replaced with bigger and better things. It’s the nature of the beast.

ESO seems to have a pretty good “soft trinity” from what I hear.

Never trust marketing or beta tests. Wait for the game.

Looks like it will be fun for at least a month or two regardless.

Oh, yeah, of course.

After the sham that was GW2 marketing, I’ll never trust marketing again. GW2 also has a really indepth soft trinity…LOL

So many smoke and mirrors…not sure whether to feel pity for ANet for their incompetence to deliver what they promised, or contempt for their blatant lies.

Raine – if you think the combat is too simplistic that’s your opinion.
Personally I think you should consider the following : there is a good amount of interdependence in GW2’s combat as well – however players are not tied up in failure – which is a good thing.

If a group goes " every man for himself " – and they are good they might succeed.
If a group uses reflects, protective boons and might stacking while still being independent enough and good enough they will most likely succeed.

But if someone in the group fails / more fail – the group doesn’t crumble – since even ONE person is enough to keep things going and get his people back up.

I can’t remember ALL the times I’ve been left as the only one alive with the boss at 5-10 % HP and had to solo the last part.
You don’t get that in trinity games.

Also I’m glad that your " lfg experience " isn’t that bad – but it isn’t just marketing – I’ve personally gone through the " lfg monk / lfg tank " situation and don’t enjoy it one bit.

How about – to each his own?

Harper.4173:

Also I’m glad that your " lfg experience " isn’t that bad – but it isn’t just marketing – I’ve personally gone through the " lfg monk / lfg tank " situation and don’t enjoy it one bit.

How about – to each his own?

Only really bad players in GW1 used “tanks”.

Honestly, GW1 was pretty much the perfect set up I’ve seen in an MMO. Damage builds had their place, support/disabling builds had their place, and healing was way more interactive than “spam big heals on tank” prevalent in most other MMOs. Plus, without there being a tank, everyone had to pay attention to what was going on.

And the part that made it even better? If you couldn’t find a healer, or damage, or whatever you needed…you could throw on a hero or hench and they would do an acceptable job (usually better than pugs).

Hell, you could even lone wolf pretty much the entire game. I did FoW hard mode with a group of 7…me plus six heroes.

Oh god…I miss GW1. Shame I put tens of thousands of hours into it and did pretty much everything there was to do multiple times.

tanks where good till MM’s became better, from there on having no MM was seen as a death sentence. (don’t ask me why, i did great without both of them)

sorudo.9054:

tanks where good till MM’s became better, from there on having no MM was seen as a death sentence. (don’t ask me why, i did great without both of them)

Maybe to the awfuls that made up pugs.

I rarely used MM (and only the bottom of the barrel players even considered a “tank”), and completed almost all of HM with heroes+hench.

Meat shields can save you quite a few headaches when you face mobs that’d otherwise 2-shot your heroes, and don’t have a solid prot monk (did those ever exist in pve to start with..?) or a shelter spammer rt on your team. But yea, careful luring coupled with being mindful of your positioning can/could get you through all but the more elite of pve zones.
Also, I didn’t realize players still opted for henchies in the hero era. Then again, pve has been dumbed down so much with the arrival of heroes and pve skills…

On a side note, the WoW element is strong in this thread, heuheu.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Also, I didn’t realize players still opted for henchies in the hero era. o0

I quit playing before they enabled full hero teams. I’d done pretty much everything there was to do on most professions and just kind of wandered off. I beat Proph and Factions with full hench teams…they weren’t THAT bad…way better than 95% of pug groups.

Honestly, I’d be much happier right now with an extra 3-4 GW1 expansions rather than GW2. The only reason I’ve come back to GW2 is because I heard the sPvP was much improved, and that seems to be true…I’m having a blast. It’s depressing when there’s more build and role variety in PvP than PvE.

Apathy.6430:

KarlaGrey.5903:

Also, I didn’t realize players still opted for henchies in the hero era. o0

I quit playing before they enabled full hero teams. I’d done pretty much everything there was to do on most professions and just kind of wandered off. I beat Proph and Factions with full hench teams…they weren’t THAT bad…way better than 95% of pug groups.

Yea, most of the time that is (unfortunately) very true. However with a real (read: running the cheesy builds) pve group, it’s simply way too easy because of shadow form permasins.

Apathy.6430:

I heard the sPvP was much improved, and that seems to be true…I’m having a blast. It’s depressing when there’s more build and role variety in PvP than PvE.

Interesting o0

KarlaGrey.5903:

Apathy.6430:

I heard the sPvP was much improved, and that seems to be true…I’m having a blast. It’s depressing when there’s more build and role variety in PvP than PvE.

Interesting o0

Making 5v5 readily available instead of the awful 8v8 hotjoins helped immensely. So much more enjoyable than when I quit playing a yearish ago.

Raine.1394:

@Volkon, the game is hardly fun without a foil. You are the perfect foil, come back to me Volkon.

Sorry, weekend activities tend to keep me away from the forums that much. Besides, I’m more an epee kind of guy. Let me catch up.

Raine.1394:

Harper.4173:

Raine.1394:

Except they weren’t addressing GW1 when they said “We keep hearing other MMO developers espousing the “holy trinity” of DPS/ heal/tank with such reverence, as if this is the most entertaining combat they have ever played.” They were addressing WoW, essentially.

Doing well by yourself comes at a cost, sadly. It means there will be no rich interdependence and humans derive a lot of value from that. However, I’m glad you are liking the current conception of combat—not all are.

I’m just pointing out that this " lfg tank / healer" thing IS a real issue not something they made up. It’s something that was even in their previous game.

Rich interdependence between humans? You have that in GW2. I love playing with a great group where everyone knows what/when to do it and get amazing clear times and great loot by being good.
But each of us is free to do his own thing, and doesn’t fail if the others do. In a sense we’re all doing well together – but each of us is doing well on his own – and it adds up to something great – an epic run.

You make mention with people not being happy with the way the game is right now – my question is this : Have you thought if GW2 is the game for you?
IF you want a game with very well defined roles and a trinity in place there are at LEAST a dozen successful MMOs you can play and enjoy that feeling that you’re missing.
GW2 is unique in the fact that it is the ONLY MMO OF ITS KIND. Why would you change it? For a minority of players that think they know better?
And they might even know better in terms of knowing what THEY want. But why change the game for them?

You don’t have any interdependence, rich or otherwise in GW2. It’s everyman for himself, obviously. That is the nature of the Berserker battlefield; everyone enrages and just goes for it. It doesn’t matter that a random combo field might be operative.

Actually, I’m less focused on changing the game into something I want as to opposing irrationality in all its forms. That’s what’s happening primarily on the forums.

Wow, someone hasn’t done any WvW with a WvW guild I see. The potential for interdependence is quite strong, and when utilized it can make all the difference between winning and losing. (But of course PvP is dramatically different than PvE.)

But speaking of PvE… no one has yet shared with us how fights like Tequatl or the Marionette could possibly be designed with a trinity system in place. I still say that one of the major flaws of the trinity, you can’t design fights like these, or the Jungle Wurm for that matter, with the archaic trinity.

VOLKON.1290:

But speaking of PvE… no one has yet shared with us how fights like Tequatl or the Marionette could possibly be designed with a trinity system in place. I still say that one of the major flaws of the trinity, you can’t design fights like these, or the Jungle Wurm for that matter, with the archaic trinity.

Massive open world events are always a mindless zergfest in every game. I’m guessing that isn’t what the conversation is mostly about.

That said, a lot of heals are AoE based, so pretty easy to know how it would work…exactly like they do in WvW.

Apathy.6430:

VOLKON.1290:

But speaking of PvE… no one has yet shared with us how fights like Tequatl or the Marionette could possibly be designed with a trinity system in place. I still say that one of the major flaws of the trinity, you can’t design fights like these, or the Jungle Wurm for that matter, with the archaic trinity.

Massive open world events are always a mindless zergfest in every game. I’m guessing that isn’t what the conversation is mostly about.

That said, a lot of heals are AoE based, so pretty easy to know how it would work…exactly like they do in WvW.

That’s the point, these fights are anything but a mindless zergfest. Mindless zergs fail miserably.

VOLKON.1290:

That’s the point, these fights are anything but a mindless zergfest. Mindless zergs fail miserably.

Anything with hundreds of random people is a mindless zerg, with or without a trinity.

The fact that anything that requires any ounce of thought is completed falls back to the infinite monkey theorum.

Apathy.6430:

VOLKON.1290:

That’s the point, these fights are anything but a mindless zergfest. Mindless zergs fail miserably.

Anything with hundreds of random people is a mindless zerg, with or without a trinity.

The fact that anything that requires any ounce of thought is completed falls back to the infinite monkey theorum.

Spoken with the experience of someone that hasn’t succeeded in these fights I guess? These are anything but mindless zergs. The Wurm kills, for example, are highly organized events. The Marionette less so due to familiarity, but again, you can’t zerg it. Even Tequatl is far from a zerg due to so many coordinated things that need to be done together in order to succeed.