Guild Wars 2

Many of us have played other mmorpgs, and I don’t understand why some of the fans of GW2 run around telling players who aren’t enjoying the game, that they are playing incorrectly.

Aren’t good games supposed to stand on their own merits? Aren’t they supposed to be designed in a way that keeps people engaged?

Every single experienced MMORPG player I know, ran out of stuff to do in GW2 in a matter of days… and while the majority of players aren’t that hardcore or experienced with all of the big mmorpgs, they will eventually reach that point as well, it just takes them a little more playtime.

I get really tired of seeing players tell others they are supposed to be having fun a certain way… if I am not satisfied with the game, but someone else is, I don’t tell them they are playing wrong and that they need to be bored… I am happy for them that they have found a way to enjoy something with their spare time.

However, a lot of people seem to magically think this game is supposed to be fun for everyone if they play the same way as those people having fun. As a hardcore mmorpg, I am not going to find it fun to walk around and spend 15 minutes looking at how beautiful an animal is in the river… I enjoy finding stuff to do, being challenged in some way, so on and so forth, and in that regard gw2 is not fun for me.

Anet promised in their manifesto that this game would be innovative… I don’t see it, none of their features are brand new, and most of them that were presented that way, aren’t even designed well enough to really be a selling point.

Are dynamic events very dynamic? Do I leave a lasting impression on the persistent world? If I loved MMORPGs am I REALLY going to want to check gw2 out? If that’s the case how come so many proficient MMORPG players can’t even will themselves to log in anymore.

GW2 to me is very loosely considered an mmorpg… it has a persistent world, which has very little depth, from a technical standpoint it does have that massive element, in that you can get a decent number of people together in 1 area, but the focus on instancing and districting, and the lack of depth in any aspect of the game… makes it feel like an mmo-lite to me.

I understand what anet was going for here, a casual game that doesn’t have to be the main game you play, that you can log into and just faceroll about for a little time here and there, and that’s fine… those types of games are nice…. but what was with all the false advertising?

I used to revere Anet as the company that was trying to be everything that blizzard and activision are not anymore. Now with all the artsy fartsy trailers, the self-importance, and the blatant deception for marketing purposes… I dunno anymore.

Are they sitting there in their office, happy that the game sold 2million copies? Was that more important to them than the integrity of making a good game?

Wasn’t their slogan before always that it will come out when it is finished, and not prematurely?

Is that just a necessary evil of game development, where no matter what you believe in initially, money is always the most motivating factor that will color all of your decisions more than anything else?

If this game was supposed to compete with WoW as a top mmorpg, why didn’t they stick to their guns and create a truly innovative experience. In the end I feel like they tried to just improve a little on what WoW offers, instead of make a completely different game. Whether they succeeded or failed in making a better version of WoW, i’ll leave that to you to decide.

I know. I even see some guardians and maybe others use an ability that scatters mobs during events for no good reason and hurts more than helps since many of those mobs are blown away from the AoE fields.

I understand your frustration. However, I can assure you that ANet is not sitting on their thumbs.

The game has a good foundation, but from here on out is where the real work begins.

Here’s thread that shows just how much they are doing right at this moment:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dev-Tracker-Compilation-A-list-of-upcoming-fixes-and-changes

Truly, no one can tell you how to play a game. It’s your choice. What I CAN tell you, however, is that there are many different types of play styles and goals to be had in GW2. From achievement hunting, to crafting, to dungeon runs (they are fixing the token rewards, thank god.), to WvW and sPvP.

You can make the game experience as varied or as homogenous as YOU want.
You can make the game experience as social or solo-oriented as YOU want.

Again, the game is not perfect. It is not where ANet or many of its fans would like it to be. IMO, this first month has been its first legs.

However, from that link that I posted, I can see that they ARE indeed aware of the issues that plague this game, from botters to poor risk/reward ratios. They ARE working on it. Every couple days we get new patches.

I can only say have a bit more patience. If you must, take a break. But I can guarantee you that the game is only going to improve with time.

This game is it’s own entity, I didn’t read anything official about this game supposedly competing with WoW as top mmorpg, other than rabid fans of either stating so.

As for the rest of your post. If you play all games in one genre the exact same way, then you will always end up comparing them to your original first experience in the genre.

Vorch.2985:

I understand your frustration. However, I can assure you that ANet is not sitting on their thumbs.

The game has a good foundation, but from here on out is where the real work begins.

I do also think the game has potential if they steadily improve upon it… It just sorta bugged me how unfinished it actually felt on release and how little it felt like there was to do.

let me tell you something

if you like WoW so be it, they release an expansion with Pandas that have no lore with the warcraft universe only to have success in the Asia market. GW2 is NOT WOW and WOW will never be GW2. Most people say that gw2 is empty and shallow cause of the no reward / no kitten system…. in gw2 you are the same with anyone else..if you do not like it you know where to go…

ps. and i have played wow for a good 5 years

I dont think they try to compete with WoW
But instead , compete with all the mmo-games out there (not just 1 game)
For example Rift is te best PvE game out there . It provides more content per month , where no1 have ever seen .
Just because it doesnt have 9 million subs(not ppl) , it means it failed , or its the under dog ?
Ppl have invested too much time in their game , and cant see past their noses :P

Killthehealersffs.8940:

I dont think they try to compete with WoW
But instead , compete with all the mmo-games out there (not just 1 game)
For example Rift is te best PvE game out there . It provides more content per month , where no1 have ever seen .
Just because it doesnt have 9 million subs(not ppl) , it means it failed , or its the under dog ?

Rift can provide content at a steady pace, because they have a much smaller playerbase… they don’t have to worry about releasing content at a rate that keeps hardcores from getting bored, while overwhelming casuals with too much stuff to ever complete.

To each their own I suppose. If you aren’t having fun playing the game, why play? It leaves the game with more people online who are enjoying the game instead of complaining within the game. I certainly enjoy all of the aspects that are newer to me than other MMOs that I’ve played, and the world is definitely more interesting to me than some of the other MMOs where there is no difference in an area ever at any time. But that’s just me. To others it appears stale and boring with the lack of a true repetitive event (as that’s why other MMOs are addicting) other than crafting.

Honestly, if you don’t think they actually achieved all they said they would, then do something else. Telling everyone else how they failed is like those other people telling you how to play: it’s pure opinion. I personally haven’t found any difficulty finding a way to have fun every time I play, but I can understand that those who don’t find the same things interesting that I do won’t have the same experience.

Definitely one of the better games I’ve played. And as Vorch said, this is where the real work begins. There is so much more in the future. (“But that’s not now!” Your point? That it needs everything it will ever contain right now? That would certainly be nice but it was never going to happen.)

And WoW? I understand the constant comparisons, and I honestly never liked WoW, but I think we should compare the game to itself and nothing else. I’m sure WoW has improved over the years it’s been in existence. So has every other long lasting MMO. GW2 will likely be very different in a number of years, and I’m looking forward to the ride.

Smaller plaerbase = less money
And still provide more updates ?
Dont u think its remarkable ?

And Rift playerbase are casuals ?
Do u have some proofs ?

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

To each their own I suppose. If you aren’t having fun playing the game, why play? It leaves the game with more people online who are enjoying the game instead of complaining within the game. I certainly enjoy all of the aspects that are newer to me than other MMOs that I’ve played, and the world is definitely more interesting to me than some of the other MMOs where there is no difference in an area ever at any time. But that’s just me. To others it appears stale and boring with the lack of a true repetitive event (as that’s why other MMOs are addicting) other than crafting.

Honestly, if you don’t think they actually achieved all they said they would, then do something else. Telling everyone else how they failed is like those other people telling you how to play: it’s pure opinion. I personally haven’t found any difficulty finding a way to have fun every time I play, but I can understand that those who don’t find the same things interesting that I do won’t have the same experience.

Definitely one of the better games I’ve played. And as Vorch said, this is where the real work begins. There is so much more in the future. (“But that’s not now!” Your point? That it needs everything it will ever contain right now? That would certainly be nice but it was never going to happen.)

And WoW? I understand the constant comparisons, and I honestly never liked WoW, but I think we should compare the game to itself and nothing else. I’m sure WoW has improved over the years it’s been in existence. So has every other long lasting MMO. GW2 will likely be very different in a number of years, and I’m looking forward to the ride.

This is the kinda logic i really do not agree with. If something isn’t satisfactory by someone’s standards they should at least be able to voice what they think… If people didn’t try to foster change when they encountered something they felt was subpar, nothing would ever be improved upon.

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Smaller plaerbase = less money
And still provide more updates ?
Dont u think its remarkable ?

And Rift playerbase are casuals ?
Do u have some proofs ?

A smaller playerbase means you have a smaller spectrum of players. The more players a game has playing, the more variety of players you are going to encounter, your hardcore players will be more hardcore, because they are competing with a larger number of hardcore players…

WoW has to balance content based on millions of different players and what they want from the game. Some want hardcore raids frequently, at a pace that no developer could ever keep up with, because of how many players there are trying to hardcore raid and down the content. Then they have other players who might want more pvp content, and others that may want solo pve content, and others that might want exploration content and want to see cool new landscapes and other races and monsters.

When you have 9million mouths to feed it is harder to keep them all satisfied.

killbill.7910:

let me tell you something

if you like WoW so be it, they release an expansion with Pandas that have no lore with the warcraft universe only to have success in the Asia market. GW2 is NOT WOW and WOW will never be GW2. Most people say that gw2 is empty and shallow cause of the no reward / no kitten system…. in gw2 you are the same with anyone else..if you do not like it you know where to go…

ps. and i have played wow for a good 5 years

I guess you don’t know your WoW history then… the Pandaren race was first mentioned as an April Fools joke waaaay back in 2002. It’s been a part of the lore for as long as the game as been around, pretty much.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Pandaren_

Sheen.8196:

This is the kinda logic i really do not agree with. If something isn’t satisfactory by someone’s standards they should at least be able to voice what they think… If people didn’t try to foster change when they encountered something they felt was subpar, nothing would ever be improved upon.

Lots of people love the game for what it is. People coming from other games wanting Anet to change it to be more like that game is what puts people off.

I’m sure if I came from a FPS game, and complained that GW2 doesn’t have enough FPS targeting, people would think it was a stupid suggestion too.

Sheen.8196:

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

To each their own I suppose. If you aren’t having fun playing the game, why play? It leaves the game with more people online who are enjoying the game instead of complaining within the game. I certainly enjoy all of the aspects that are newer to me than other MMOs that I’ve played, and the world is definitely more interesting to me than some of the other MMOs where there is no difference in an area ever at any time. But that’s just me. To others it appears stale and boring with the lack of a true repetitive event (as that’s why other MMOs are addicting) other than crafting.

Honestly, if you don’t think they actually achieved all they said they would, then do something else. Telling everyone else how they failed is like those other people telling you how to play: it’s pure opinion. I personally haven’t found any difficulty finding a way to have fun every time I play, but I can understand that those who don’t find the same things interesting that I do won’t have the same experience.

Definitely one of the better games I’ve played. And as Vorch said, this is where the real work begins. There is so much more in the future. (“But that’s not now!” Your point? That it needs everything it will ever contain right now? That would certainly be nice but it was never going to happen.)

And WoW? I understand the constant comparisons, and I honestly never liked WoW, but I think we should compare the game to itself and nothing else. I’m sure WoW has improved over the years it’s been in existence. So has every other long lasting MMO. GW2 will likely be very different in a number of years, and I’m looking forward to the ride.

This is the kinda logic i really do not agree with. If something isn’t satisfactory by someone’s standards they should at least be able to voice what they think… If people didn’t try to foster change when they encountered something they felt was subpar, nothing would ever be improved upon.

That’s true. There will always be two opinions, however: those who want things to change for their benefit and those who like things the way they are and would like to see changes but not those implemented by the others. I do think the game can be improved. But likely some of my post was created because I’m constantly hearing people complaining about things that I like or don’t mind, so I essentially said things that would not line up with my normal philosophy. I did not mean to imply that logic.

Stevoli.8795:

Sheen.8196:

This is the kinda logic i really do not agree with. If something isn’t satisfactory by someone’s standards they should at least be able to voice what they think… If people didn’t try to foster change when they encountered something they felt was subpar, nothing would ever be improved upon.

Lots of people love the game for what it is. People coming from other games wanting Anet to change it to be more like that game is what puts people off.

I’m sure if I came from a FPS game, and complained that GW2 doesn’t have enough FPS targeting, people would think it was a stupid suggestion too.

They may like it for what it is, and that is great, but that doesn’t mean only they should be catered to.

A lot of people in history have liked things that were ultimately changed, and a lot of those changes were probably for the better.

If someone designs a very shallow game, and a lot of players liked that design… would it still be in the best interest of the company? Do shallow mmorpgs have longevity? I am not specifically speaking about gw2 here, even though I personally feel the shoe fits (just my opinion) but in general, should anet look to improve the game in ways that will give it lasting power? If people are getting bored of your game quickly, that is never a good thing. Just look what happened with d3.

Im A GW2 fanboy but to be honest I agree with you almost entirely.

I like the game because Im a casual player and I want to spend time playing other games as well and still make progress in a reasonable amount of time, that works, there is a truckload to do and see (especially if you like pretty scenery/armour like me, ever sat spinning ships in eve?…….).

But I understand that a lot of ‘hardcore’ mmo players aren’t in it for the looks, just want to grind/get armour/ etc. In that case GW2 will not work for you.

Personally I really enjoy the random exploring (Im distracted by everything) and gameplay, its fun, the movement and speed etc is enjoyable to play when you get it right, when you get it wrong you die, as it should be. I played wow for a while and Lotro, max level before recent expansion but the combat and systems just aren’t interesting, but thats just personal opinion.

However that aside I agree entirely on how misleading they were before launch, the whole permanent changes to the world (mykitten and the ‘when its ready’ when its not thing annnoy me when coming from a company that I respected (I love GW1).
And when people are having to tell you how to play to enjoy it the something is a bit wrong (although some people do seem to be missing a large portion of the game).

All I can really suggest is keep making the point in a structured manner so the devs (who have always worked hard to make changes at arenanet) can push things in the right direction, in the meantime just relax and wander and see all the extras the game has to offer. Even if those centaurs are at it again. Next time they’ll stop.

Sheen.8196:

They may like it for what it is, and that is great, but that doesn’t mean only they should be catered to.

A lot of people in history have liked things that were ultimately changed, and a lot of those changes were probably for the better.

If someone designs a very shallow game, and a lot of players liked that design… would it still be in the best interest of the company? Do shallow mmorpgs have longevity? I am not specifically speaking about gw2 here, even though I personally feel the shoe fits (just my opinion) but in general, should anet look to improve the game in ways that will give it lasting power? If people are getting bored of your game quickly, that is never a good thing.

I believe it is in the best interest of the company to keep it the way it is. At least then they will have a loyal fan-base, even if it becomes a niche game. The players that want this game changed to be more like other games in the genre are the players who hop from MMO to MMO burning through content, you can NEVER make that type of player happy, unless you can magically produce unlimited content out of your kitten.

If the game was changed, it would not only alienate its fan-base, but it would lose those players who it was catered to because they’d get bored just as quickly after they burn through everything. That’s just a lose-lose situation.

Stevoli.8795:

Sheen.8196:

They may like it for what it is, and that is great, but that doesn’t mean only they should be catered to.

A lot of people in history have liked things that were ultimately changed, and a lot of those changes were probably for the better.

If someone designs a very shallow game, and a lot of players liked that design… would it still be in the best interest of the company? Do shallow mmorpgs have longevity? I am not specifically speaking about gw2 here, even though I personally feel the shoe fits (just my opinion) but in general, should anet look to improve the game in ways that will give it lasting power? If people are getting bored of your game quickly, that is never a good thing.

I believe it is in the best interest of the company to keep it the way it is. At least then they will have a loyal fan-base, even if it becomes a niche game. The players that want this game changed to be more like other games in the genre are the players who hop from MMO to MMO burning through content, you can NEVER make that type of player happy, unless you can magically produce unlimited content out of your kitten.

If the game was changed, it would not only alienate its fan-base, but it would lose those players who it was catered to because they’d get bored just as quickly after they burn through everything. That’s just a lose-lose situation.

I don’t specifically want it to be like other mmorpgs, aside from having more content to keep players playing… content is a very vague and subjective word…

I think that they could take a lot of intuitive steps to make their game better, for everyone.

Sheen.8196:

Stevoli.8795:

Sheen.8196:

They may like it for what it is, and that is great, but that doesn’t mean only they should be catered to.

A lot of people in history have liked things that were ultimately changed, and a lot of those changes were probably for the better.

If someone designs a very shallow game, and a lot of players liked that design… would it still be in the best interest of the company? Do shallow mmorpgs have longevity? I am not specifically speaking about gw2 here, even though I personally feel the shoe fits (just my opinion) but in general, should anet look to improve the game in ways that will give it lasting power? If people are getting bored of your game quickly, that is never a good thing.

I believe it is in the best interest of the company to keep it the way it is. At least then they will have a loyal fan-base, even if it becomes a niche game. The players that want this game changed to be more like other games in the genre are the players who hop from MMO to MMO burning through content, you can NEVER make that type of player happy, unless you can magically produce unlimited content out of your kitten.

If the game was changed, it would not only alienate its fan-base, but it would lose those players who it was catered to because they’d get bored just as quickly after they burn through everything. That’s just a lose-lose situation.

I don’t specifically want it to be like other mmorpgs, aside from having more content to keep players playing… content is a very vague and subjective word…

I think that they could take a lot of intuitive steps to make their game better, for everyone.

A list of some of the things we know they’re working on:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dev-Tracker-Compilation-A-list-of-upcoming-fixes-and-changes

So you rushed to 80 and ran out of stuff to do and that’s somehow the dev’s fault? Dude, all MMOs run out of content eventually. Even in WoW, if you level a toon to 85 and run dungeons enough to get the best gear (a joke now with the way they throw epics at you) eventually you will find yourself with nothing to do but PvP or sit in a capital city and troll trade chat.

What’s the difference here? You got to max level. Presumably you got the gear you want, and now you have nothing to do. Guess what, that would happen in any MMO. All MMOs have a finite amount of content and all MMOs have “filler” content for people that rush to the end.

In most MMOs that filler is gear treadmills, PvP, and achievement farming. In GW2 the filler is vanity gear (which requires dungeon farming for tokens), PvP, and achievement farming. Seriously, the only difference is the type of gear you’re going for. In WoW you have to farm the best of the best gear if you want to stay competitive and “good” (if that’s your definition of good). In GW2 the gear you’re after is purely cosmetic and optional. The gear with the best stats is relatively easy to get, you just need to work for the look you want.

You really just have to gauge it on what kind of content you want. If you don’t like farming for achievements or PvPing then you likely wouldn’t do that in another MMO either. That leaves gear, and if you like having gear determine your skill level, this isn’t the MMO for you. If you like to have the same gear as everyone else stat wise and have skill determine your skill level and only concern yourself with looking cool, that’s what your endgame should be.

And as far as the dungeon farming gear runs go, I would take GW2’s system over traditional MMOs any day. In WoW I ran 1 dungeon 37 times before a piece of gear I needed dropped. 37 times. For 1 stupid piece of gear. It got to the point that after we beat that particular boss (the second out of 4 I believe) I would drop group if I didn’t get it because I hated that kitten dungeon so much after that. At least in GW2 I know that every single run is getting me the required tokens I need (and will be even better when they roll out the new changes), and that I’ll be able to use those tokens to pick the exact piece of gear I need. I don’t have to rely on some crappy random number generator and hope the gear I need drops.

souldonkey.9534:

So you rushed to 80 and ran out of stuff to do and that’s somehow the dev’s fault? Dude, all MMOs run out of content eventually. Even in WoW, if you level a toon to 85 and run dungeons enough to get the best gear (a joke now with the way they throw epics at you) eventually you will find yourself with nothing to do but PvP or sit in a capital city and troll trade chat.

What’s the difference here? You got to max level. Presumably you got the gear you want, and now you have nothing to do. Guess what, that would happen in any MMO. All MMOs have a finite amount of content and all MMOs have “filler” content for people that rush to the end.

In most MMOs that filler is gear treadmills, PvP, and achievement farming. In GW2 the filler is vanity gear (which requires dungeon farming for tokens), PvP, and achievement farming. Seriously, the only difference is the type of gear you’re going for. In WoW you have to farm the best of the best gear if you want to stay competitive and “good” (if that’s your definition of good). In GW2 the gear your after is purely cosmetic and optional. The gear with the best stats is relatively easy to get, you just need to work for the look you want.

You really just have to gauge it on what kind of content you want. If you don’t like farming for achievements or PvPing then you likely wouldn’t do that in another MMO either. That leaves gear, and if you like having gear determine your skill level, this isn’t the MMO for you. If you like to have the same gear as everyone else stat wise and have skill determine your skill level and only concern yourself with looking cool, that’s what your endgame should be.

And as far as the dungeon farming gear runs go, I would take GW2’s system over traditional MMOs any day. In WoW I ran 1 dungeon 37 times before a piece of gear I needed dropped. 37 times. At least in GW2 I know that every single run is getting me the required tokens I need (and will be even better when they roll out the new changes), and that I’ll be able to use those tokens to pick the exact piece of gear I need. I don’t have to rely on some crappy random number generator and hope the gear I need drops.

When the most proficient min/maxers run out of things to do in 3 days, that is not a good sign, it will take less hardcore players a bit longer to reach that point, but 3days for an mmorpg is very short.

Apparently gw2 is a game that is supposed to be played inefficiently, you gotta take your time killing mobs and doing cool combos to enjoy it more and stuff like that?

Sheen.8196:

souldonkey.9534:

So you rushed to 80 and ran out of stuff to do and that’s somehow the dev’s fault? Dude, all MMOs run out of content eventually. Even in WoW, if you level a toon to 85 and run dungeons enough to get the best gear (a joke now with the way they throw epics at you) eventually you will find yourself with nothing to do but PvP or sit in a capital city and troll trade chat.

What’s the difference here? You got to max level. Presumably you got the gear you want, and now you have nothing to do. Guess what, that would happen in any MMO. All MMOs have a finite amount of content and all MMOs have “filler” content for people that rush to the end.

In most MMOs that filler is gear treadmills, PvP, and achievement farming. In GW2 the filler is vanity gear (which requires dungeon farming for tokens), PvP, and achievement farming. Seriously, the only difference is the type of gear you’re going for. In WoW you have to farm the best of the best gear if you want to stay competitive and “good” (if that’s your definition of good). In GW2 the gear your after is purely cosmetic and optional. The gear with the best stats is relatively easy to get, you just need to work for the look you want.

You really just have to gauge it on what kind of content you want. If you don’t like farming for achievements or PvPing then you likely wouldn’t do that in another MMO either. That leaves gear, and if you like having gear determine your skill level, this isn’t the MMO for you. If you like to have the same gear as everyone else stat wise and have skill determine your skill level and only concern yourself with looking cool, that’s what your endgame should be.

And as far as the dungeon farming gear runs go, I would take GW2’s system over traditional MMOs any day. In WoW I ran 1 dungeon 37 times before a piece of gear I needed dropped. 37 times. At least in GW2 I know that every single run is getting me the required tokens I need (and will be even better when they roll out the new changes), and that I’ll be able to use those tokens to pick the exact piece of gear I need. I don’t have to rely on some crappy random number generator and hope the gear I need drops.

When the most proficient min/maxers run out of things to do in 3 days, that is not a good sign, it will take less hardcore players a bit longer to reach that point, but 3days for an mmorpg is very short.

Apparently gw2 is a game that is supposed to be played inefficiently, you gotta take your time killing mobs and doing cool combos to enjoy it more and stuff like that?

The people that ran out of things to do in 3 days would run out of things to do in 3 days in any MMO. I can’t remember the last time WoW released a content patch that the top guilds there didn’t have completed in less than a week. It’s no different. These are just the hardcore players that rush to the end to be the first. The gear treadmill is typically what keeps them playing and in GW2 the only gear worth obtaining is strictly for vanity purposes. These players want the best “stat” gear (the very definition of a min/maxer) and the best stat gear is easy to obtain at 80. That’s the point. That gear isn’t the determining factor when it comes to skill, skill is.

souldonkey.9534:

So you rushed to 80 and ran out of stuff to do and that’s somehow the dev’s fault? Dude, all MMOs run out of content eventually. Even in WoW, if you level a toon to 85 and run dungeons enough to get the best gear (a joke now with the way they throw epics at you) eventually you will find yourself with nothing to do but PvP or sit in a capital city and troll trade chat.

What’s the difference here? You got to max level. Presumably you got the gear you want, and now you have nothing to do. Guess what, that would happen in any MMO. All MMOs have a finite amount of content and all MMOs have “filler” content for people that rush to the end.

In most MMOs that filler is gear treadmills, PvP, and achievement farming. In GW2 the filler is vanity gear (which requires dungeon farming for tokens), PvP, and achievement farming. Seriously, the only difference is the type of gear you’re going for. In WoW you have to farm the best of the best gear if you want to stay competitive and “good” (if that’s your definition of good). In GW2 the gear you’re after is purely cosmetic and optional. The gear with the best stats is relatively easy to get, you just need to work for the look you want.

You really just have to gauge it on what kind of content you want. If you don’t like farming for achievements or PvPing then you likely wouldn’t do that in another MMO either. That leaves gear, and if you like having gear determine your skill level, this isn’t the MMO for you. If you like to have the same gear as everyone else stat wise and have skill determine your skill level and only concern yourself with looking cool, that’s what your endgame should be.

And as far as the dungeon farming gear runs go, I would take GW2’s system over traditional MMOs any day. In WoW I ran 1 dungeon 37 times before a piece of gear I needed dropped. 37 times. For 1 stupid piece of gear. It got to the point that after we beat that particular boss (the second out of 4 I believe) I would drop group if I didn’t get it because I hated that kitten dungeon so much after that. At least in GW2 I know that every single run is getting me the required tokens I need (and will be even better when they roll out the new changes), and that I’ll be able to use those tokens to pick the exact piece of gear I need. I don’t have to rely on some crappy random number generator and hope the gear I need drops.

You can’t just come clean and admit that the amount of content that’s in GW2 is way too meager for an MMO that advertises itself as revolutionary (or any MMO, really)?

What’s the level of your highest character?

I wonder… what defines a “hardcore gamer”? Is it the urge to have better stats/gear? The amount of playing? You want challenges (dungeons not challenging enough? Orr’s too easy?) What is your goal in any MMO? what makes an MMO fun?

Kungkonung.6758:

souldonkey.9534:

So you rushed to 80 and ran out of stuff to do and that’s somehow the dev’s fault? Dude, all MMOs run out of content eventually. Even in WoW, if you level a toon to 85 and run dungeons enough to get the best gear (a joke now with the way they throw epics at you) eventually you will find yourself with nothing to do but PvP or sit in a capital city and troll trade chat.

What’s the difference here? You got to max level. Presumably you got the gear you want, and now you have nothing to do. Guess what, that would happen in any MMO. All MMOs have a finite amount of content and all MMOs have “filler” content for people that rush to the end.

In most MMOs that filler is gear treadmills, PvP, and achievement farming. In GW2 the filler is vanity gear (which requires dungeon farming for tokens), PvP, and achievement farming. Seriously, the only difference is the type of gear you’re going for. In WoW you have to farm the best of the best gear if you want to stay competitive and “good” (if that’s your definition of good). In GW2 the gear you’re after is purely cosmetic and optional. The gear with the best stats is relatively easy to get, you just need to work for the look you want.

You really just have to gauge it on what kind of content you want. If you don’t like farming for achievements or PvPing then you likely wouldn’t do that in another MMO either. That leaves gear, and if you like having gear determine your skill level, this isn’t the MMO for you. If you like to have the same gear as everyone else stat wise and have skill determine your skill level and only concern yourself with looking cool, that’s what your endgame should be.

And as far as the dungeon farming gear runs go, I would take GW2’s system over traditional MMOs any day. In WoW I ran 1 dungeon 37 times before a piece of gear I needed dropped. 37 times. For 1 stupid piece of gear. It got to the point that after we beat that particular boss (the second out of 4 I believe) I would drop group if I didn’t get it because I hated that kitten dungeon so much after that. At least in GW2 I know that every single run is getting me the required tokens I need (and will be even better when they roll out the new changes), and that I’ll be able to use those tokens to pick the exact piece of gear I need. I don’t have to rely on some crappy random number generator and hope the gear I need drops.

You can’t just come clean and admit that the amount of content that’s in GW2 is way too meager for an MMO that advertises itself as revolutionary (or any MMO, really)?

What’s the level of your highest character?

No. Because it’s not. There’s literally hundreds of things to do in this game. Just because a few people have put in 8 hours a day since launch and feel like there’s nothing to do does not mean there is nothing to do…

Kungkonung.6758:

You can’t just come clean and admit that the amount of content that’s in GW2 is way too meager for an MMO that advertises itself as revolutionary (or any MMO, really)?

What’s the level of your highest character?

I’m only speaking for myself here. There’s a ton of content for a new MMO, no matter how they advertise it. Hit level 80 and still so much to see in the game, if I want to do so. Only at about 50% map completion so that means I’ve only seen roughly half the games content. I haven’t even step foot in a dungeon. So much to do, so little time.

I have no idea what my total playtime is, but I’ll guesstimate anywhere between 60 and 120 hours (yes I know that is a large variation )

I do not understand why people think it lacks content. I have yet to get past 75 skill points in any crafting. I have maybe 40% map completion on my most advanced character. I have a Warrior at 47, Engineer at 18 and Elementalist at 15, so I have plenty more classes and story lines to see. I have only done 1 dungeon (AC) on story mode (though several times).

If that is all I’ve gotten in at most 120 hours I can imagine completing everything will take me quite sometime. Uber min/maxer’s who rush through content should never be the voices a dev team listens to in terms of content because you simply cannot please them (even Rift doesn’t try and I love Trion). Sure bugs and what not, but not content critiques.

ArenaNET doesn’t tell me what’s fun, they told me all the features that will be in GW2. They are, so it’s fun for me. Just because they didn’t meet your expectation of what every mmorpg SHOULD have, doesn’t mean it’s not fun. For me, all of the expectations were met.
On that note, one should not seek PvE content in a PvP game, same as you shouldn’t have sought dungeons in GW1 because it was primarily based on PvP.
Also, if you can’t see innovation in GW2 then you are blind.

It doesn’t matter how innovative, how fun, or how challenging a game is, someone will always complain about it.

The problem is, people always compare new games to older ones, and wonder why they can’t use the same play-style in this new game. When the same old play-style doesn’t work, they complain and hope the devs change it. (ie. why can’t I stand in one spot and tank this mob while a healer spam heals me!?!)

If the devs cave and change it, then we’re right back to playing the same old MMO that we’ve played before.

Stevoli.8795:

killbill.7910:

let me tell you something

if you like WoW so be it, they release an expansion with Pandas that have no lore with the warcraft universe only to have success in the Asia market. GW2 is NOT WOW and WOW will never be GW2. Most people say that gw2 is empty and shallow cause of the no reward / no kitten system…. in gw2 you are the same with anyone else..if you do not like it you know where to go…

ps. and i have played wow for a good 5 years

I guess you don’t know your WoW history then… the Pandaren race was first mentioned as an April Fools joke waaaay back in 2002. It’s been a part of the lore for as long as the game as been around, pretty much.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Pandaren_

go read some warcraft book and then speak
pandaren arent’ in the warcraft universe

Attila.6348:

Also, if you can’t see innovation in GW2 then you are blind.

amen brother, so many blind qqERS that the only thing they know is arena and raiding.

killbill.7910:

go read some warcraft book and then speak
pandaren arent’ in the warcraft universe

I didn’t say it was in the warcraft books, that doesn’t mean it’s not part of the lore/setting though. Look at all of the “pop-culture” references in the game, that stuff isn’t in the warcraft books either.

Fact is, the Pandaren race was mentioned back in 2002 by Blizzard (even if it was an April Fools joke), so you can’t say it was created just to cater to Asian grinders.

• WoW tells you that doing the same 25 dailies each day is the most fun.
• GW2 tells you that just hanging around killing mobs and chat is most fun.
• Super Mario Bros tells you that reaching the flag at the end of the map is the most fun.
• Chess tells you that trying to be smarter than your opponent is the most fun.
• Poker Star dot Whatever tells you that waiting for that special set up of cards is the most fun.
• … You all get it …

Play the game that agrees with your type of most fun.

Why does no one on these forums believe in TL:DR.

I only read the first couple paragraphs, but it generally comes down to common human decency. If someone is having fun you don’t shoot them down but if someone is not having fun the decent thing to do is try and help them enjoy themselves. So comparing the two and saying both are bad is kinda stupid.

Its like if you go to a baseball game in your football jersey spend the whole time checking football stats them complain after 2 hours that no one in this game can a make a touchdown. I would feel bad you are not enjoying the experience. So, of course, I am going to try and help you better understand baseball and how to enjoy it properly. That’s just the right thing to do.

Stevoli.8795:

I guess you don’t know your WoW history then… the Pandaren race was first mentioned as an April Fools joke waaaay back in 2002. It’s been a part of the lore for as long as the game as been around, pretty much.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Pandaren_

See, there you go. It started as an April Fools joke. Pandas were a joke from the moment they were conceived. Everyone talks about how they’ve been part of lore since before WoW yet they usually fail to mention that they only exist because of April Fools.

Why do you people leave WoW because you’re sick of it then come to another game and expect it to be WoW?

This applies to most MMOs released after WoW.

I know many people thought Anet took a sort of communist approach to this game. Sure it’s fun and this and that, as long as you do it our way. That’s basically the merit

Rich.5371:

I know many people thought Anet took a sort of communist approach to this game. Sure it’s fun and this and that, as long as you do it our way. That’s basically the merit

Sorry, but you can apply this to any game.

What if I have fun jumping off the edge? That game over screen is breaking my flow, nintendo LIED TO ME.

Untouch.2541:

Why do you people leave WoW because you’re sick of it then come to another game and expect it to be WoW?

This applies to most MMOs released after WoW.

I’ve noticed this too. It’s amusing but sad really. This is how it seems to play out:

“I don’t enjoy WoW anymore so I’m going to try out ‘insert MMO with traditional play style here’.
“This is basically WoW in space/with rifts/with ‘X’ feature slightly different. This sucks, why wouldn’t I just play WoW since that’s basically what this is but I’ve already invested time into WoW?”

“I don’t enjoy WoW anymore so I’m going to try out Guild Wars 2.”
“This is NOTHING like WoW, What the kitten? Where’s my shiny gear treadmill? Why no dueling? Why no LFG even though everyone hates it in WoW? Why is everything so hard even though everyone complains that WoW is too easy?”
Etc., etc., I think you get the point

It’s like people are always mad that the new MMOs are WoW clones, and then they’re mad that this MMO isn’t a WoW clone.

Wut…?

Anet promised in their manifesto that this game would be innovative… I don’t see it, none of their features are brand new, and most of them that were presented that way, aren’t even designed well enough to really be a selling point.

This is where you lost all credibility and I stopped reading.

This game DOES stand on its own merits.

The issue is that people want this game to play like another MMO.
This game plays like Guild Wars 2.

You have been sold on the idea that the MMO “end game” starts at the level cap.
Guild Wars 2 “end game” starts at level 1.

You have been told that the only “end game” is raiding.
Guild Wars 2 has no raiding therefore we conclude (erroneously) that there is no “end game”

So maybe different is not for you.
I hear that the pandas are comming. Enjoy.

Sheen.8196:

Every single experienced MMORPG player I know, ran out of stuff to do in GW2 in a matter of days… and while the majority of players aren’t that hardcore or experienced with all of the big mmorpgs, they will eventually reach that point as well, it just takes them a little more playtime.

Every single experienced MMORPG player I know, came to GW2 for the same reason they came for DAoC and Warhammer Online: PvP.
You can’t run out of “stuff to do” while melting faces.

Even EvE Online / Warhammer etc. have PvE content but in the end they are PvP centric game and players are given so many PvP features exactly for that: to PvP.

Untouch.2541:

Why do you people leave WoW because you’re sick of it then come to another game and expect it to be WoW?

Well said Untouch.
I think one problem is that people have preconceived expectations for any MMO they buy, expectations that don’t get applied to other video games. You wouldn’t play Batman and complain about lack of vehicle racing or Portal and complain about the lack of crafting.

Perhaps it’s because MMOs have so many systems that people expect MMOs to be able to support EVERY kind of gameplay and that’s just not possible.

I agree with Vaerah, there is no running out of things to do when there is PvP. And anyone who knew anything about ArenaNet knew that PvP would be a major focus of the game. The PvE content is a bonus, and I’ve found it to be quite enjoyable so far.

I have to ask, did the OP ever play GW1? I returned to that game after initially quitting to work on Hall of Monument points and I found the secret was that the player needed to get into ArenaNet’s head. GW1 did not explain itself so it took active work to figure out what you needed to do. GW2 is much more approachable but it still has similar issues. For example, people thinking that Reknown Hearts are the main form of open world PvE content when Dynamic Events are really what one should be doing.

Perhaps that is a weakness of their fundamental design but I’ve been having fun with GW2 (much moreso than GW1) Of course, I haven’t approached the game like it’s some kind of race and I’m taking my time to enjoy the game.
I think GW2 is meant to be savored more like a sit-down dinner, not wolfed down like a pie-eating contest.

First, let me thank you for spending time on the forums for a game you don’t even like. That’s very generous or stupid of you. Oh.

Second, the game is not WoW. I played WoW for about 6 years. I understand it may be difficult for you to leave an 8 year old game with tons of polish, for a brand new game. What I don’t understand is how you expect the exact same level of polish.

Furthermore, “when it’s done” has never been a good practice with MMOs. Putting out a “minimum viable state” mmo is common practice, and for good reason. This lets them gain ROI (return on investment) which funds further refinement of the game. Sorry, but the real world will only let a company borrow so much before seeing some return. Also, with the stiff exception of the trading post, this is the best “launch” i’ve ever seen on a game (and i’ve played countless MMOs). SWTOR was really good I just didn’t like the game that much. Rift was nice, but I didn’t have fun. This game was fun from the very start and there’s always something to do.

And WoW sucked for a long time. Rep grinding at level 60 was not fun; neither was 40-man raid wipes. Sure, we look back on it now that we’ve accomplished things and we can say “oh man that was so crazy and fun haha!”. But we both know it was horrible.

Please don’t compare brand new games to 8-yr old games with several expansions and a huge budget. We all know what you want, so go shell out $60 to run around as a Panda for 5 more levels. Godspeed.

Sheen.8196:

Aren’t good games supposed to stand on their own merits? Aren’t they supposed to be designed in a way that keeps people engaged?

Yeah but if you have a fixed idea of what an MMO “should” be, then maybe that fixed idea is standing in the way of your potential engagement with this MMO?

1) Some people are faster than others and reach cap quicker.

2) This happened in WoW – after 2 weeks some people were at cap and complaining about there being nothing to do.

3) There is no possible game that’s just been released that will ever satisfy such people.

4) 8 years on and nobody can complain about WoW in the same way.

5) 8 years from now nobody will complain about GW2 lacking content in the same way.

Perspective.

Plus also: relax, there’s no sub, in this game you don’t have to look for justification to pay a sub and be entertained 24/7 because of it.

Different mindset. Play it when it’s fun, stop playing when it isn’t fun, play it when you have a hankering for it again.

Personally, no MMO has ever been able to keep me entertained beyond a month or two, and I’ve always found it hard to justify paying for monthly subs thereafter when I usually only get a few weeks of fun out of it before I’m bored again. The way GW2 is set up is perfect for me – I can play it whenever I want, for as long or as little as I want to.

killbill.7910:

go read some warcraft book and then speak
pandaren arent’ in the warcraft universe

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Pandaren were in Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne, and they were in the pen and paper Warcraft RPG books released in 2003:

Here is an illustration from the Warcraft RPG rule book:
http://udoncrew.deviantart.com/art/WoW-RPG-Pandaren-vs-Satyr-62403455

Doesnt like other players telling him how to have fun. Ok noted.

The problem is when people walk around saying “this is how a MMO should be”.

First of all, nobody decides what that label is. You can’t say that type is any less MMO than anything else. There are many people who thinks less of WoW, not because it’s not a great game in it’s own right, but because it’s less of a MMO than games that came before it, like UO and M59, SWG, AC and so on.

But I am at least not running my mouth in WoW how about its a wrong game, and how I dont want to be told that the only four things I can do is BG, Arena, Raid or Dailies. None of which meet my sandbox criteria.

Is it me who is the problem or the game? The game is what it is. Now apply the same thing for GW2. Lots of us are floored by this game. This is easily the best Online game I’ve played in almost a decade. It’s outstanding. I love going for the jumping puzzles, tackling the crafting system, going for long term objectives that will take me years like Legendary weapons, and getting 100% while I mix it with dungeons, WvW, sPvP(and all the unlocks) as I traverse between getting receipes doing achievements, and will also backtrack and do some more HoM for GW1 to get more titles, achievements and HoM gear in GW2.

So you see, it is provoking people if you say, conclusively that every player runs out of stuff to do after a few days. You can’t do every heart and every event in 48 hours. I don’t think that’s possible to experience all the game has to offer in mere a couple of days of play.
If you don’t want to stick around, that’s cool, but don’t tell others on their behalf that there is nothing to do.

- The dungeon critism in many threads are legitimate, and Anet are aware of it. They will make story mode easier and make the token thingy less grindy.the game just launched. Remember how long WoW was a mess back in 04! it took a long time for it to get good. many game systems were a failure. Remember the summoning stone group finder? what a waste. Lots of disappointments. Still it was a good game. you take the good with the bad, instead of dealing in absolutes.

Good luck to whatever you want to do.

Sheen.8196:

When the most proficient min/maxers run out of things to do in 3 days, that is not a good sign, it will take less hardcore players a bit longer to reach that point, but 3days for an mmorpg is very short.

Apparently gw2 is a game that is supposed to be played inefficiently, you gotta take your time killing mobs and doing cool combos to enjoy it more and stuff like that?

Proficient min/maxers did NOT run out of things to do in 3 days. That is just not true.

Wow raids are cleared within a week or 2. What is the difference?

People who heavily play MMOs will ALWAYS run out of content quickly. That is no different than any game out there. I love the paradigm here, getting 80 is easy, getting good gear is easy, now play the game because you WANT to.

Besides, if all the min/maxers will quickly leave the game, is that really a bad thing?!

I read an article that claimed research showing that 19/20 games that are bought never make it to the end. We gamers are concerned about depth and length of playtime, but the simple fact is most games don’t get finished, presumably because they quit being fun.

That’s gonna happen with GW2. Especially with a mountainous list of things you could do, not all of it is gonna be fun, and you’ll leave, at least for a while. That’s completely ok. There’s no subscription. So drop out and drop back in. Don’t fret about it.