Guild Wars 2

showatt.9413:

Draknar.5748:

I think the developers aren’t going to change their plans, NOT because there is a strong majority of players that actually want the ascended gear, but likely because all of the work is already done and they honestly feel that once we try it we will like it.

Finally someone who actually understand what I’m talking about.

However lets put this into scenario okay:

Anet Lead: Hmm the game’s losing popularity we gotta do something fast.

Anet Dev: How about adding endgame gear progression, so player can grind for new gears, and the higher stats will motivate them to do so!

Anet Lead; THAT SOUNDS PERFECT! I know everyone’s gonna love it. Lets do it

Not so realistic right?

The fact is, they most certainly knew this would happen. But still, they went ahead with making the changes. Why would they risk making so many players angry, if they actually are not supported by a greater faction of people who are :

1. Indifferent to the change
2. Support the change
3. Not happy, but willing to give the change a chance.

??

This is the main reason why I believe, that most people, actually don’t care about the change as much as the “VOCAL” majority do.

You makes a huge mistake here: you takes as given than such decisions are right. But the problem is, such decisions are often wrong. A browser game I was playing some time ago did exactly the same thing. They changed the game philosophy because they slowly loosed customers and wanted to stop it. They did it through all the community screamed “NO! NO! NO!” At the end the game proceeded to lose customers, but much quicker. And it is for sure not an exceptional case in the game history.

1. Even if a change is needed, not every change will make the situation better.
2. Everyone makes mistakes. Even developers who use sophisticated tools for making the decisions.

Think about it

showatt.9413:

Sales aren’t meeting their expectation.

I don’t know where people are getting this idea that the game isn’t selling, when every measure out there says it is still doing great. The game is consistently in the top 10 pc games sold on Amazon, often top 3 on the UK PC sales charts, hitting #4 for the first time this week and top 5 on Greenmangaming.com. And that is with a ‘tun’ of new games out and coming out in the next week+, from Football Manager to Hitman, AC3, N4S Most Wanted, Halo 4, Darksiders II and Black Ops 2, not to mention XCOM: EU, Borderlands 2, Dishonored and Torchlight 2 all still selling very well. It is a crowded field, and GW2 is doing great, it’s outselling the new WoW expansion on every list above as well and if it was on Steam it’d have been top 10 every week for the last 2.5 months.

On topic, I have faith that Anet will stick with their promises and their design goals and that Ascended gear and Agony won’t be nearly the problem people make it out to be, especially if it is only useful in one dungeon.. and even then only necessary in the deeper, much more challenging ‘levels’.

Hah.. I have faith in an MMOG company. There really is a first time for everything ah?

If only leveling up was harder, it would’ve solved a lot of problems. But then again… people will whine about leveling being hard…

Kathmandu.2417:

showatt.9413:

Draknar.5748:

I think the developers aren’t going to change their plans, NOT because there is a strong majority of players that actually want the ascended gear, but likely because all of the work is already done and they honestly feel that once we try it we will like it.

Finally someone who actually understand what I’m talking about.

However lets put this into scenario okay:

Anet Lead: Hmm the game’s losing popularity we gotta do something fast.

Anet Dev: How about adding endgame gear progression, so player can grind for new gears, and the higher stats will motivate them to do so!

Anet Lead; THAT SOUNDS PERFECT! I know everyone’s gonna love it. Lets do it

Not so realistic right?

The fact is, they most certainly knew this would happen. But still, they went ahead with making the changes. Why would they risk making so many players angry, if they actually are not supported by a greater faction of people who are :

1. Indifferent to the change
2. Support the change
3. Not happy, but willing to give the change a chance.

??

This is the main reason why I believe, that most people, actually don’t care about the change as much as the “VOCAL” majority do.

You makes a huge mistake here: you takes as given than such decisions are right. But the problem is, such decisions are often wrong. A browser game I was playing some time ago did exactly the same thing. They changed the game philosophy because they slowly loosed customers and wanted to stop it. They did it through all the community screamed “NO! NO! NO!” At the end the game proceeded to lose customers, but much quicker. And it is for sure not an exceptional case in the game history.

1. Even if a change is needed, not every change will make the situation better.
2. Everyone makes mistakes. Even developers who use sophisticated tools for making the decisions.

Think about it

Oh i have.

And I never said once such decision would be 100% correct.

However I do believe it will regain some of Gw2’s lost customers. At least for a while.

And whether their decision is right or wrong, who am I to judge? I don’t predict the future. Who knows if people are going to like or dislike the change, WHEN IT ACTUALLY COMES OUT.

The fact is, most people – contrary to what forum whiners believe – are actually EXCITED about the change. This is why Anet is not undoing the change.

This is why despite 6700 whine post they’re still going ahead with it.

I fear power creep because TOO MANY people will have those high tier items, not too little. In fact, I would LOVE to see content that is so hard that only the top 5% of the population can beat it. I’m probably not in that top 5%, but it would constantly give me something to strive for, as opposed to gear collecting. Power creep, gear treadmill, whatever you want to call it, is the most superficial form of difficulty. It only lasts as long as you don’t have gear.

Xaielao.8510:

showatt.9413:

Sales aren’t meeting their expectation.

I don’t know where people are getting this idea that the game isn’t selling, when every measure out there says it is still doing great. The game is consistently in the top 10 pc games sold on Amazon, often top 5 and the UK PC sales charts it is #4 this week and top 5 on Greenmangaming.com. And that is with a ‘tun’ of new games out and coming out in the next week+, from Football Manager to Hitman, AC3, N4S Most Wanted, Halo 4, Darksiders II and Black Ops 2, not to mention XCOM: EU, Borderlands 2, Dishonored and Torchlight 2 all still selling very well. It is a crowded field, and GW2 is doing great, it’s outselling the new WoW expansion on every list above as well and if it was on Steam it’d have been top 10 every week for the last 2.5 months.

Bro, you want an evidence why this game ISN"T doing great?

I happen to have a ton.

But here, I’ll just give you one, because I have said this times and times again but people dont seem to listen.

If the game is doing FINE, everything is all well and good, Anet isn’t losing players rapidly, why are they going back on their words and introduce a new tier of armor with better stats?

Because they want to pizz off the majority to cater the minority?

No.

Because they’re not doing fine. Because the actual majority is getting bored.
Other wise, they would not have made this change, would they?

PS. If they’re selling so well, it’s probably because people heard about the new expansion.

MasterGeese.4756:

I fear power creep because TOO MANY people will have those high tier items, not too little. In fact, I would LOVE to see content that is so hard that only the top 5% of the population can beat it. I’m probably not in that top 5%, but it would constantly give me something to strive for, as opposed to gear collecting. Power creep, gear treadmill, whatever you want to call it, is the most superficial form of difficulty. It only lasts as long as you don’t have gear.

I actually agree, but still, Anet needed time to make new content.

This ascended gear grind will give them that time.

showatt.9413:

The fact is, most people – contrary to what forum whiners believe – are actually EXCITED about the change. This is why Anet is not undoing the change.

I see a lot of complaints about the introduction of the gear mill to GW2, it would be a KO criteria for me, I can also see how it will take the most unique characteristic of GW2 away (and it is always good for your business to have some unique characteristic if the market has a lot of alternatives to offer).

So can you please show me, how it is the fact, that the most people are happy to see a gear mill in GW2?

showatt.9413:

Xaielao.8510:

showatt.9413:

Sales aren’t meeting their expectation.

I don’t know where people are getting this idea that the game isn’t selling, when every measure out there says it is still doing great. The game is consistently in the top 10 pc games sold on Amazon, often top 5 and the UK PC sales charts it is #4 this week and top 5 on Greenmangaming.com. And that is with a ‘tun’ of new games out and coming out in the next week+, from Football Manager to Hitman, AC3, N4S Most Wanted, Halo 4, Darksiders II and Black Ops 2, not to mention XCOM: EU, Borderlands 2, Dishonored and Torchlight 2 all still selling very well. It is a crowded field, and GW2 is doing great, it’s outselling the new WoW expansion on every list above as well and if it was on Steam it’d have been top 10 every week for the last 2.5 months.

Bro, you want an evidence why this game ISN"T doing great?

I happen to have a ton.

But here, I’ll just give you one, because I have said this times and times again but people dont seem to listen.

If the game is doing FINE, everything is all well and good, Anet isn’t losing players rapidly, why are they going back on their words and introduce a new tier of armor with better stats?

Because they want to pizz off the majority to cater the minority?

No.

Because they’re not doing fine. Because the actual majority is getting bored.
Other wise, they would not have made this change, would they?

PS. If they’re selling so well, it’s probably because people heard about the new expansion.

Oh I rather think it’s likely do to people, you know.. ‘asking for it’. Hard to believe, an MMOG company giving people what they ask for.

I think I’ll take my statistical evidence over your conjecture.. but to each their own.

People fear power creep because the whole reason why this game was lauded by folks was because it was BTP and you could leave and come back in a few months and your gear would be good enough to face any of the content.

Power creep forces you to continually play, or play catch up every time you come back from hiatus.

If the player population had declined due to people feeling bored and not having anything to do, you wouldn’t see all these threads complaining that all the servers are full and they can’t play with their friends. =P

“Most people actually are excited – if not, indifferent – to Ascended gears.”

I’ll state that’s not true.

Before, people were asking for more stuff. Some were calling legendaries useless (<.01% of forum posts), some were saying the game was boring (<.5% of forum posts). .51% of the population is “the minority”. Now? 5 day kittentorm taking up 50+>% of the forum posts with hundreds upon hundreds of people signing against it? That’s not “the vocal minority”.

Xaielao.8510:

showatt.9413:

Xaielao.8510:

showatt.9413:

Sales aren’t meeting their expectation.

I don’t know where people are getting this idea that the game isn’t selling, when every measure out there says it is still doing great. The game is consistently in the top 10 pc games sold on Amazon, often top 5 and the UK PC sales charts it is #4 this week and top 5 on Greenmangaming.com. And that is with a ‘tun’ of new games out and coming out in the next week+, from Football Manager to Hitman, AC3, N4S Most Wanted, Halo 4, Darksiders II and Black Ops 2, not to mention XCOM: EU, Borderlands 2, Dishonored and Torchlight 2 all still selling very well. It is a crowded field, and GW2 is doing great, it’s outselling the new WoW expansion on every list above as well and if it was on Steam it’d have been top 10 every week for the last 2.5 months.

Bro, you want an evidence why this game ISN"T doing great?

I happen to have a ton.

But here, I’ll just give you one, because I have said this times and times again but people dont seem to listen.

If the game is doing FINE, everything is all well and good, Anet isn’t losing players rapidly, why are they going back on their words and introduce a new tier of armor with better stats?

Because they want to pizz off the majority to cater the minority?

No.

Because they’re not doing fine. Because the actual majority is getting bored.
Other wise, they would not have made this change, would they?

PS. If they’re selling so well, it’s probably because people heard about the new expansion.

Oh I rather think it’s likely do to people, you know.. ‘asking for it’. Hard to believe, an MMOG company giving people what they ask for.

I think I’ll take my statistical evidence over your conjecture.. but to each their own.

Very hard to believe indeed, a respected game company would listen to a few whiners on forum and go back on their entire design philosophy just to cater these whiners?
Well then, here is my wish list:

Mount
Guild Hall
Player Housing

People have been asking for mounts for ages. Why isn’t it implanted?

Where is my mount??

But your right, if you’d rather believe statistic from a few webiste that shows the game selling well after the new expansion is announced, believe that those initial purchase cost will cover the entire production cost, and believe that the game isn’t suffering from population issue when every low level zone is almost nearly empty every day (meaning new players aren’t coming in) Go right ahead.

People hate power creep because it combines the worst of both worlds:

1. More grinding for new gear to replace the old one you just grinded, or get left in the stats dust.

2. Even if you complete the grind, it is almost certain you land back at square one, faring no better overall (10 dps vs 10 HP versus 1000 dps vs 1000 HP) as mob stats are also raised by the same %, as proven by almost every MMO ever.

GADefence.5634:

“Most people actually are excited – if not, indifferent – to Ascended gears.”

I’ll state that’s not true.

Before, people were asking for more stuff. Some were calling legendaries useless (<.01% of forum posts), some were saying the game was boring (<.5% of forum posts). .51% of the population is “the minority”. Now? 5 day kittentorm taking up 50+>% of the forum posts with hundreds upon hundreds of people signing against it? That’s not “the vocal minority”.

Once again, you are assuming forum represent every player that ever grace the game, which simply isn’t true.

Well there are many people who dislike the change, there are also many people who are indifferent, and supportive of the change.

And that’s just on the forum.

Everyone I have met in game are excited about the change. The forum seems to be the only place where negativity about the new changes is born. And I’m not alone.

Kana.6793:

My guild has over 400 members. All I’ve seen in game are people excited about the new dungeon and people debating whether or not infusions mean the mursaat are about to make a comeback.

People in LA map chat and dungeon pugs are playing as normal. The only place I’ve seen hysterical rage about the patch is on these forums.

Plus they’ve already said there will not be a new tier of gear every 3 months, there will only be Ascended and Legendaries added. It’s not a gear treadmill.

Face it, Forum has always been a place where players whine.
It is the least productive place for a game dev to get feedbacks from, and rarely do people actually propose a workable solution that take cost and time into account.
Why? well, because people whine. Tons were whining about not having things to do.
Now, tons are complaining about gear progression.

People complain about Thieves.
Warriors.
Mesmers.
Necro bugs.

Whine Whine whine whine whine.

This is simply NOT the actual playerbase of Gw2. In fact, I would go as far as to say forum is only a SMALL part of the playerbase, because no one whine as much in game as people do on forums.

showatt.9413:

nysta.6713:

the worst thing about it is the raider-guild mentality.

everything becomes a case of “what gear do you have?” before anyone would talk to you. you’re considered a good/bad player based on your gearscore. you end up not being able to see half the game’s content without investing your soul into a group of easily irritated people who take the concept of “game” too seriously. you find yourself not bothering with the little things in the world as you end up pursuing only those things which guarantee you loot formatted for your class. ragequitting gets more common. no one likes anyone else because everyone’s too determined to get their loot NOW so they can get into the next raid with “not noobs”.

ugh. the whole idea makes me cringe. i was so glad when gw2 seemed to be saying it would pretty much be the antithesis of this. i thought: at last. a game where gamers looking for challenges and fun can gather. a holy grail, i guess.

while i don’t think this power creeping is the end of the game, it’s pretty much telling me this will be another mmo in which my wife and i’ll be locked out of endgame. again.

Which, would be an MASSIVE exaggeration on your part.
Number 1 – Asc really aren’t that much different than Exotic gears.

Their stat APPEARS to be better, but you would still end up getting more stat bonus with matching runes on your exotic then ASC because these armors only have infusioin slot.

The agony debuff is designed so people only experience it after repeating the new dungeon.

Everything about this entire fiasco has been over exaggerated on the GW1 purist’s part it would seem like the end of day of GW2 if you have only been looking at the forum and not playing the actual game.

We haven’t seen what Omni or Offensive infusions offer. They could be far more powerful than current exotic rune bonuses. That’s really the crux of the issue, 3 months into the game and exotics are no longer BiS.

Eain.7825:

I fear power creep for two reasons:

1: WvW. Currently WvW auto levels you to 80, but your gear is whatever you have on. Even at top level you may not have equal gear to the guy you’re fighting. If the gear he has on is better than yours, and he has it because he’s got nothing to do other than game, while you have to hold down a job and take care off family, you’re not losing because he’s better at the game in terms of strategy and skill. You’re losing because you have something else going on in your life. PvP in WoW was like this. They had this insane resilience stat that gave you damage reduction versus other players. If you had it you could compete, without it you were toast. For an average player without a lot of time on their hands it took months to get a full set, and by that time they’d released another. I love WvW, but I have a job and family life. I want to feel like when I fight someone and lose to them in WvW it’s because they made better choices during the fight and were more skilled, not because they spent an extra 50 hours a week playing that I didn’t have.

2. In GW1, you hit max level, probably with a couple blue items. If you were enterprising and smart, you could get yourself a set of blues with the right stats on them (later yellows and greens) that would cover you for pretty much any build you cared to play within a few weeks at worst. If you paid attention to the various forums and the wiki you could see what skills you needed for various favored builds and get them in a week or two while getting your gear. And then you could play the game, every part of the game, however you wanted. That lasted through 3 expansions, and didn’t waver. Ding max level, get some stuff to fill out your build options, go play. Worst grind you had to do was going to get some skills you might not have. You could walk away for a while, come back, and within a span of a week or two you could play competently.

Contrast that to WoW: Ding max level, go grind regular dungeons for a full set of dungeon gear. Then go grind heroics for a full set of heroic gear. Then you can actually do the raids! Oh, but if you wan to do hard mode raids that have some of the cool story bits you have to grind raids for heroic raid gear. Oh and if you want to PvP you have to also grind for pvp gear. Each step in that chain could take a hundred hours or more. If you were lucky, you got a partial set of raid gear and pvp gear before the next content patch came out. If not well then you can add even more time before you’ll ever be able to play the newest content.

It was a system in which a new player would have to sinkittenerally hundreds of hours just to play the end game content, after they’d already sunk a hundred or so hours into hitting max level.

The problem is the people that seemed to enjoy this were the guys at the top that had nothing but time to play. For those of us with other commitments, it was an endless trudge through ever increasing gear levels so we could occasionally play a bit of the end game content before new stuff came out and the trudge began again.

The fear I have is that in trying to please the people that say “there’s no better gear than this, I’m not going to play anymore” you’re just creating an endless, ugly loop. As soon as you put new gear in the game those players with way more time on their hands will grind it out in a few weeks, then demand more. And the rest of us, who still don’t have full exotic sets, who play the game without having a carrot dangled in front of us, are left even further behind. It also begins to put more and more new content designed for higher gear levels out of reach of average players, and keeps pushing the latest stuff further and further out of reach. It makes it harder for those of us that don’t have a lot of time to sink to play, and makes it harder for new players without massive amounts of time to sink to get into the game and play the newest, coolest looking content.

I don’t know that we’ll see eye to eye easily on this issue. I understand that you don’t feel like there’s anything to do but level new characters because you’ve already done pretty much everything. Comparatively, with one level 80, and a four others all under forty, I’ve barely scratched the surface. I hope you can at least understand why I look at your demand for power creep and ask why I should have to give way to your demands just because you don’t feel like you have reason to play anymore.

I do think the idea they’ve put out with ascended gear, if it’s released very slowly, is a decent compromise on the issue. To try and keep this constructive, do you feel like getting a couple pieces of new gear every couple of months would be enough to keep you playing the game? Do you think if Anet stopped at ascended gear once a full set was available you’d be happy, or do you think you’d want to see another tier start at that point?

Cyferwolf.1089:

Eain.7825:

I fear power creep for two reasons:

1: WvW. Currently WvW auto levels you to 80, but your gear is whatever you have on. Even at top level you may not have equal gear to the guy you’re fighting. If the gear he has on is better than yours, and he has it because he’s got nothing to do other than game, while you have to hold down a job and take care off family, you’re not losing because he’s better at the game in terms of strategy and skill. You’re losing because you have something else going on in your life. PvP in WoW was like this. They had this insane resilience stat that gave you damage reduction versus other players. If you had it you could compete, without it you were toast. For an average player without a lot of time on their hands it took months to get a full set, and by that time they’d released another. I love WvW, but I have a job and family life. I want to feel like when I fight someone and lose to them in WvW it’s because they made better choices during the fight and were more skilled, not because they spent an extra 50 hours a week playing that I didn’t have.

2. In GW1, you hit max level, probably with a couple blue items. If you were enterprising and smart, you could get yourself a set of blues with the right stats on them (later yellows and greens) that would cover you for pretty much any build you cared to play within a few weeks at worst. If you paid attention to the various forums and the wiki you could see what skills you needed for various favored builds and get them in a week or two while getting your gear. And then you could play the game, every part of the game, however you wanted. That lasted through 3 expansions, and didn’t waver. Ding max level, get some stuff to fill out your build options, go play. Worst grind you had to do was going to get some skills you might not have. You could walk away for a while, come back, and within a span of a week or two you could play competently.

Contrast that to WoW: Ding max level, go grind regular dungeons for a full set of dungeon gear. Then go grind heroics for a full set of heroic gear. Then you can actually do the raids! Oh, but if you wan to do hard mode raids that have some of the cool story bits you have to grind raids for heroic raid gear. Oh and if you want to PvP you have to also grind for pvp gear. Each step in that chain could take a hundred hours or more. If you were lucky, you got a partial set of raid gear and pvp gear before the next content patch came out. If not well then you can add even more time before you’ll ever be able to play the newest content.

It was a system in which a new player would have to sinkittenerally hundreds of hours just to play the end game content, after they’d already sunk a hundred or so hours into hitting max level.

The problem is the people that seemed to enjoy this were the guys at the top that had nothing but time to play. For those of us with other commitments, it was an endless trudge through ever increasing gear levels so we could occasionally play a bit of the end game content before new stuff came out and the trudge began again.

The fear I have is that in trying to please the people that say “there’s no better gear than this, I’m not going to play anymore” you’re just creating an endless, ugly loop. As soon as you put new gear in the game those players with way more time on their hands will grind it out in a few weeks, then demand more. And the rest of us, who still don’t have full exotic sets, who play the game without having a carrot dangled in front of us, are left even further behind. It also begins to put more and more new content designed for higher gear levels out of reach of average players, and keeps pushing the latest stuff further and further out of reach. It makes it harder for those of us that don’t have a lot of time to sink to play, and makes it harder for new players without massive amounts of time to sink to get into the game and play the newest, coolest looking content.

I don’t know that we’ll see eye to eye easily on this issue. I understand that you don’t feel like there’s anything to do but level new characters because you’ve already done pretty much everything. Comparatively, with one level 80, and a four others all under forty, I’ve barely scratched the surface. I hope you can at least understand why I look at your demand for power creep and ask why I should have to give way to your demands just because you don’t feel like you have reason to play anymore.

Number 1 : they already stated there isn’t gonna be a treadmill.

Number 2: You dont need new gears if you don’t want to. Agony debuff only gates you after you repeat certain dungeons.

Seriously, I finally understand why mods are merging everything to 1 thread.
If the devs are reading this forum they’ll probably be laughing so hard right now.

Shayde.2564:

showatt.9413:

nysta.6713:

the worst thing about it is the raider-guild mentality.

everything becomes a case of “what gear do you have?” before anyone would talk to you. you’re considered a good/bad player based on your gearscore. you end up not being able to see half the game’s content without investing your soul into a group of easily irritated people who take the concept of “game” too seriously. you find yourself not bothering with the little things in the world as you end up pursuing only those things which guarantee you loot formatted for your class. ragequitting gets more common. no one likes anyone else because everyone’s too determined to get their loot NOW so they can get into the next raid with “not noobs”.

ugh. the whole idea makes me cringe. i was so glad when gw2 seemed to be saying it would pretty much be the antithesis of this. i thought: at last. a game where gamers looking for challenges and fun can gather. a holy grail, i guess.

while i don’t think this power creeping is the end of the game, it’s pretty much telling me this will be another mmo in which my wife and i’ll be locked out of endgame. again.

Which, would be an MASSIVE exaggeration on your part.
Number 1 – Asc really aren’t that much different than Exotic gears.

Their stat APPEARS to be better, but you would still end up getting more stat bonus with matching runes on your exotic then ASC because these armors only have infusioin slot.

The agony debuff is designed so people only experience it after repeating the new dungeon.

Everything about this entire fiasco has been over exaggerated on the GW1 purist’s part it would seem like the end of day of GW2 if you have only been looking at the forum and not playing the actual game.

We haven’t seen what Omni or Offensive infusions offer. They could be far more powerful than current exotic rune bonuses. That’s really the crux of the issue, 3 months into the game and exotics are no longer BiS.

I dont know about you but I think those infusion will give you:

99% damage reduction
99% damage increase
60 % chance of gaining 16 second invulnerability on hit
10K bonus health.

Why? Well, I have this feeling.

/sarcasm

“My guild has over 400 members. All I’ve seen in game are people excited about the new dungeon and people debating whether or not infusions mean the mursaat are about to make a comeback.”

Really, that’s funny. . . Most of the people I talk to are either indifferent about it or annoyed by it, with some ready to quite over it. I think I heard 2 people “looking forward to it” since it’s so small. . . And that’s mostly due to a new dungeon, hence the ascended armour doesn’t factor.

2 showatt:

Arena stated, there will be no gear mill in GW2 at all. Now Arena (so it seems to be) states, there will be gear mill… but slight, without big impact on the game.

When the second statement will be true, then Arena lied to us in the first time. What makes you so sure that this will be the last lie?

PS: For sure, we don’t know how exactly this new gear will be implemented. But it seems pretty clear to be a introduction of the gear mill for me.

GADefence.5634:

“My guild has over 400 members. All I’ve seen in game are people excited about the new dungeon and people debating whether or not infusions mean the mursaat are about to make a comeback.”

Really, that’s funny. . . Most of the people I talk to are either indifferent about it or annoyed by it, with some ready to quite over it. I think I heard 2 people “looking forward to it” since it’s so small. . . And that’s mostly due to a new dungeon, hence the ascended armour doesn’t factor.

Really? That’s funny… Most people I talk to are either excited or indifferent about it. One or two are annoyed but since you know, they have actually READ what the dev posted and realize there isn’t going to be a treadmill, they have moved on.

I think I have heard 3 people talking about how bad gear progression is, but before I could point out that there isn’t going to be a treadmill at all, just a new tier of gear which is more or less the same with exotic, the map chat started laughing at their ignorance.

But oh well… everyone experience different things, I suppose.

@ Cyferwolf.

I personally never really understood the “I have limited time” argument. The majority of people do. Picture any WvW clash of players and then imagine that of the 40 vs 40 brawl going on perhaps 3 or 4 people are actually powergamers that must always have the best items. They aren’t going to make a difference at that scale. For sPvP the problem is solved by matching teams according to their average itemlevel.

I don’t have all the time in the world either, and even with only a few hours a day to spend on GW2 I created two decked-out 80’s without breaking a sweat. In WoW I was in a raidguild that raided two nights a week to accomodate people with jobs and our progress wasn’t any less than that of 5 night a week guilds. It’s about efficiency, not time. Now that I know the process of being level 80 and getting gear in GW2 after having done it on my warrior, I can do it faster on my Necro because I know what to look out for and how to go about it. I can now do the same amount of work in half the time.

That is the true problem. Not power creep, efficiency creep. Not every character you level is going to take the same amount of time as the first one. As you get better and better levelling a character goes from being an epic journey to a trivial hurdle, and getting exotics goes from being a goal worth chasing to something you do just because it’s dotting the i.

The only people in my guild here in GW2 who still have bad gear are the ones who literally never play. The ones who play even a few hours a week have pretty much wrapped their characters up. Now we can level new stuff. Yay.

There’s no risk in powercreep. All it means is that a few nolifers get their chars maxed out the next day, that’s their problem. They’re the ones bored again. For the rest of us it’s simply more stuff to do, more goals to chase. Gear already trivialises the game anyway, even without growth in itemlevel. Ascalonian Catacombs is easier as a level 80 in exotics downlevelled to thirty than it is as a fresh thirty in level 20ish blues and greens.

If GW2 were to stubbornly refuse to give me better loot than what I have then there was no point for me to buy this game in the first place. Darksiders 2 has dungeons and a stale loot table aswell. I did two playthroughs and called it, because I’d seen everything. Might be I’ll play it again a few months from now. Not saying I didn’t have fun with it, I did, but you run out of stuff to do fast in a game built like that. An MMO can offer a different experience.

Kathmandu.2417:

2 showatt:

Arena stated, there will be no gear mill in GW2 at all. Now Arena (so it seems to be) states, there will be gear mill… but slight, without big impact on the game.

When the second statement will be true, then Arena lied to us in the first time. What makes you so sure that this will be the last lie?

PS: For sure, we don’t know how exactly this new gear will be implemented. But it seems pretty clear to be a introduction of the gear mill for me.

They never stated “There will be gear mill.”

They stated "There still isn’t going to be a gear mill " and “the new tier of gear is one time only and it is designed to not be over-powerful ( you can’t use rune in infusion slot. Infusion is designed only to counter agony given the information gathered) give the players who ran out of stuff to do something to work on.”

You need to go back and re-read everything.

Why do I fear power creep?

Fear is not really the issue. I"m a pure WvW player. I was told that Exotics were the BIS gear. I spent energy, resources, and time to get my gear the way I wanted – so that I could forget about gear and focus on WvW.

Now – out of the blue – I’m informed that exotics are not going to be BIS. There’s another kitten hurdle to get over before I can get back to just doing what I like to do.

The issue is not fear – it’s trust. Mine has been violated. How the hell do I know if Anet really means it this time when they say and this is the last hurdle. They fooled me once. Why should I believe them a second time?

It’s like Charlie Brown being told by Lucy to kick the football. I really won’t pull it away from you this time, Charlie Brown! No, wait, I was just kidding, sucker!

I ain’t falling for it again. I’m not Charlie Brown and I’m not kicking the kitten ball again.

I think you should’ve never believed them in the first place. Making an MMO and then promising a stale loot table is like making a boat and promising it’s not waterproof. There may be people out there who really really really want a boat that isn’t waterproof, but those people probably don’t understand what the point of a boat is in the first place.

It’s not that I fear power creep. I simply do not like it. Leveling by itself is power creep. At some point that gets boring. That is my main problem. A lot of people quit playing MMOs because they got sick and tired of going through the same cycle over and over again.

I do however understand the need or wish to continue to expand on your characters. But power creep is done in a way that bores people, also because they’ve gone through it. I guarantee you. If they were to completely go for power creep, in a few months people will start complaining here that they are bored and endgame is just the same old gear treadmill. It will happen.

So what can you do? Well, I think game developers can be more creative. They are just too lazy or too focused on the wrong things to explore other ways.

You see, one of the big issues with a gear treadmill, aside from getting bored with it, is that it by definition devaluates your efforts so far.

It is conceivable that for example gear progression is done by adding new things that can be added to existing armour. A lot less people would be upset if they could gain upgrades to make their existing armour that they put all this time in up to date again. And allow it to be done in different ways, so people don’t feel forced to go to a specific dungeon only.

Another thing that can be done is add upgrade slots in general. New armour will have it, older gear can be slotted.

Now, there are always many things to consider but there are simply other ways to make sure people don’t feel like their current gear feel obsolete.

It means there can be gear progession without kicking players in the head at the same time.

I also find that the way all this has been communicated is very poor. They start with releasing some interviews, let people rage because of the many holes in the explanations and then after a few days only comment on the kittentorm that occurs and give explanations that are still ambiguous.

I do believe Anet listen to their customers but also from GW1 I remember that their communication is short sighted and lacking in general. That could be improved.

They must’ve known this would hit like a bomb. And they could’ve prepared better for it.

The fear there is, is simply that a lot of people left other games to play this one because there was no gear treadmill. It was a big issue for many people. Anet must understand that if they don’t communicate clearly, people will start thinking they have something to hide. It’s this unknown that creates the fear.

showatt.9413:

Kathmandu.2417:

2 showatt:

Arena stated, there will be no gear mill in GW2 at all. Now Arena (so it seems to be) states, there will be gear mill… but slight, without big impact on the game.

When the second statement will be true, then Arena lied to us in the first time. What makes you so sure that this will be the last lie?

PS: For sure, we don’t know how exactly this new gear will be implemented. But it seems pretty clear to be a introduction of the gear mill for me.

They never stated “There will be gear mill.”

They stated "There still isn’t going to be a gear mill " and “the new tier of gear is one time only and it is designed to not be over-powerful ( you can’t use rune in infusion slot. Infusion is designed only to counter agony given the information gathered) give the players who ran out of stuff to do something to work on.”

You need to go back and re-read everything.

Here we go: “Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.”

Sorry, but I read a gear treadmill here clearly (yeah, slight one. So they say us now. As well as they said us earlier, that there will be no gear mill at all). Except the new gear will be really easy to get or does not improve your states at all. In both cases it would be strange to introduce new gear in the first place.

I have hope, still, and will surely not quit until I see the new content by myself.

I personally couldn’t care less about Anet adding another tier of gear. I play the game for entertainment and to play with friends.

Exotics were never intended to be the best of the best armour, there are legendaries in the datfiles, and since exotics are in no way hard to attain, they shouldn’t even be thought of as the best. They require no grinding and you can get a set as soon as you hit 80 if not before. I don;t understand where all this ‘you have to grind for exotics’ rubbish comes from.

As for the forum posts in the Ascended armour thread… I doubt even 10,000 people is the majority of actual gamers, and if you read through the thread entirely, you will see the same people posting complaining about it. The majority of forum users maybe (though again.. unlikely), but the majority of gamers you certainly are not.

You are also arguing over content not even released yet.. why not actually play the game and have fun, and experience it BEFORE you make a decision. As for myself. I will play regardless of what Anet add… they may make my entire gear set out of date, but i honestly don’t care, I will get whatever I aim for over time.. just as the game is designed to allow. Anet have said they didn;t expect people to have legendaries within such a short space of time, and so they have had to bring possible future content forward for early release. If anyone is to blame imo it would be those people that ‘must have’ the next shiny thing, that offers only small advantages over existing ‘standard’ items.

Seriously if people are getting this annoyed about a game, I would advise they go outside, breathe some fresh air, and re-evaluate ther lives and whether this is the game for them.. If it isn’t move on.. I for one will certainly not miss you one bit, if you decide to stay then stop whining everytime you don’t get things go your way.

The way I see Guild Wars 2 as it was sold to people is as something equal to communism. People were tired of the competition and the hawkishness and the race of living in a capitalist society, where the wealthy exploited the poor. Most people feel like in MMO’s they are the poor because they don’t have the capital (time) to invest in getting somewhere with their lives (characters).

Then Guild Wars 2 comes along and promises a poor (undergeared) man’s utopia where everything’s equal and a certain quality of life is assured and people can live in a levelled playing field where life is fair. Then when it’s made people discover that the lack of progress is grounding society to a halt and that a brain drain is commencing that’s taking people back into the capitalist world of competition and opportunity. I’m sure that in 1989 the Soviet Union still had a few ardent communists running around insisting that their system was perfect, but the country collapsed two years later for a reason.

Kathmandu.2417:

showatt.9413:

Kathmandu.2417:

2 showatt:

Arena stated, there will be no gear mill in GW2 at all. Now Arena (so it seems to be) states, there will be gear mill… but slight, without big impact on the game.

When the second statement will be true, then Arena lied to us in the first time. What makes you so sure that this will be the last lie?

PS: For sure, we don’t know how exactly this new gear will be implemented. But it seems pretty clear to be a introduction of the gear mill for me.

They never stated “There will be gear mill.”

They stated "There still isn’t going to be a gear mill " and “the new tier of gear is one time only and it is designed to not be over-powerful ( you can’t use rune in infusion slot. Infusion is designed only to counter agony given the information gathered) give the players who ran out of stuff to do something to work on.”

You need to go back and re-read everything.

Here we go: “Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.”

Sorry, but I read a gear treadmill here clearly (yeah, slight one. So they say us now. As well as they said us earlier, that there will be no gear mill at all). Except the new gear will be really easy to get or does not improve your states at all. In both cases it would be strange to introduce new gear in the first place.

I have hope, still, and will surely not quit until I see the new content by myself.

What part of " Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill" and "We will not be adding a new tier every 3 month and expect people to grind for them " do you not understand?

A treadmill Move continuously – a treadmill doesn’t stop after turning once, which is what’s happening with the new gear coming out. It happens once.

That’s the worst treadmill I’ve ever seen if you insist that it is one.
And really, its not strange at all for them to introduce new gears.
Alot of people have been complaining about the lack of things to do.
This entire Asc fiasco is designed to give Anet time to roll out new stuff, and those gears don’t even give you better stats, as the rune on your exotic will end up giving you more stats then the Ascended gear.

Eain.7825:

The way I see Guild Wars 2 as it was sold to people is as something equal to communism. People were tired of the competition and the hawkishness and the race of living in a capitalist society, where the wealthy exploited the poor. Most people feel like in MMO’s they are the poor because they don’t have the capital (time) to invest in getting somewhere with their lives (characters).

Then Guild Wars 2 comes along and promises a poor (undergeared) man’s utopia where everything’s equal and a certain quality of life is assured and people can live in a levelled playing field where life is fair. Then when it’s made people discover that the lack of progress is grounding society to a halt and that a brain drain is commencing that’s taking people back into the capitalist world of competition and opportunity. I’m sure that in 1989 the Soviet Union still had a few ardent communists running around insisting that their system was perfect, but the country collapsed two years later for a reason.

Wow.

Mind = blown.

Nice analogy there Eain!

Why thank you :P

Whatever Anet said in the past is done and gone. People forget the fact that Anet are a buisness who are around to make money. What they advertised is true. For the last 3 months there wasnt a gear treadmill (unless whites, blues, greens, yellows, then golds dont count /rollseyes), so the initial purchase lived upto its promise.

Gear treadmill games have proven beyond doubt that they are very popular. Popular = money. Money = good. As I already said Anet are a buisness and as such they do what they need to to keep operating and keeping their employees in a job.

Even if i loathed gear treadmills but had to work on a game that had one to pay my mortgage you can bet your fuzzy bum Ill do it. All the complaining in the world aint going to change whats coming. Either have your temper tantrum and quit or learn to live with it. Its a game afterall not a wife. Ya can leave without any ramifications to your life.

Showatt – You are presenting a very logical answer as to why ANet are doing what they are doing, however I disagree with a few of your points, as you will probably disagree with mine.

ANet lack a fundamental feedback tool – a PTS or whatever you may call it. Their decisions are based on feedback here – on the forums – and other sources such as in-game bug reports, comments on social media, comments in the gaming press etc.

Therefore the decision they make is what they feel is best. Will they change this patch release? Not a chance. Have they taken the right step? Only time will tell.

I personally am both opposed and in support of this patch.

I support that they have addressed the huge gap in time/luck/whatever between Exotic and Legendary which may also help the current situation with pre-cursors.

I oppose that the Exotic sets that so many of us (i’m not going to say community) have worked hard to get, be it through grinding Karma, crafting or buying the items from the TP in the belief that ANet would not introduce another tier of gear, are possibly becoming obsolete.

The one screenshot we have, of the Ring, shows what I would call a significant increase in all three stats on the item. Nowhere does it suggest that this is usable only in the new area. If they get this much negative feedback about a ring – an item that was specifically chosen for display by ANet – I dread to think what the rest of the Ascended set items will bring us.

Eain….. your metaphor simply shows that you don’t understand what some of us are complaining about.

Competition is not the issue. It’s not that I don’t want competition. It’s that I don’t want to compete for gear. I want to compete on the WvW battlefield on an equal footing without worring about the fact that my gear puts me at a disadvantage. For me, I’d be fine if white gear was all we had. As long as we all had white gear equally.

I’d be fine with Anet adding tons of new gear progression for PvE players who need that sort of thing. As long as it doesn’t affect WvW.

Let me put it another way. A sizeable portion of the GW2 player population doesn’t care about gear because gear doesn’t equal competetion for us. Dead bodies on the WvW battlefield does. For us gear actually prevents fair competition.

So your communist/capitalist metaphor doesn’t work. At all.

showatt.9413:

What part of " Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill" and "We will not be adding a new tier every 3 month and expect people to grind for them " do you not understand?

They say “Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill” and make new gear which is better then present and is needed for playing new content.

They say “We will not be adding a new tier every 3 month and expect people to grind for them”. They do not say, that this will not happen every 6 month.

Like I said, there is a treadmill. A slight one. So they say now. Like they said there will be no treadmill at all some time before.

You are ready to believe someone who lied to you once? You are either a really good man or a really stupid one.

But again, maybe the new gear is not better or can be got by everyone without effort. Than all the muff is for nothing, sure.

It looks like there is a rapidly developing (or maybe already developed) schism between players who favored GW1’s overall feel and those that didn’t or never knew nor cared about it.

I for one don’t fear “power creep,” and I suspect many of the GW1 casual style fans don’t. I just don’t care. A big different between me and fans of more traditional MMORPG is you guys take your gears and your levels and your whatever progress way too seriously. But that is your freedom, and you are just as entitled to feel fulfilled in GW2 as I might be.

And, to be perfectly frank, those who chase after gradual increases in… whatever, are much more likely to buy gems regularly. GW1 relied too much on player good will to buy store items they didn’t really need and in some cases, if not to support ANet, probably didn’t even want. Players who are compelled to hoard or upgrade or transmute are much more reliable.

So, no fear, but no reason to embrace your “power creep” either. It’s just not me.

Eain.7825:

The way I see Guild Wars 2 as it was sold to people is as something equal to communism. People were tired of the competition and the hawkishness and the race of living in a capitalist society, where the wealthy exploited the poor. Most people feel like in MMO’s they are the poor because they don’t have the capital (time) to invest in getting somewhere with their lives (characters).

Then Guild Wars 2 comes along and promises a poor (undergeared) man’s utopia where everything’s equal and a certain quality of life is assured and people can live in a levelled playing field where life is fair. Then when it’s made people discover that the lack of progress is grounding society to a halt and that a brain drain is commencing that’s taking people back into the capitalist world of competition and opportunity. I’m sure that in 1989 the Soviet Union still had a few ardent communists running around insisting that their system was perfect, but the country collapsed two years later for a reason.

Except this is bull. The Soviet Union didn’t put proper communism in place. That’s a first.

Also, GW1 was popular for quite a while and it died because they started building GW2 and stopped really supporting that game. Sure, it had its limitation but it did well and didn’t have a gear treadmill.

So, what did they do? They created rare skins that you could only get in certain places. New items got slots that previous items had as fixed stats, creating more flexibility. I remember special gloves that were very shiny but cost a lot to get. But hey, they looked awesome.

But nothing changed the stats. In fact old skins started getting value because they were more rare than before.

It worked and people played the game for many more hours than Anet expected. They said as much openly. I put in over 6000 hours without needing a gear treadmill.

PvP was interesting because it was about the player’s ingenuity in combining gear with skills and synergies that kept Anet busy because of the imbalances people created. But it was still fun to create.

But you can hardly call it communism when there were rich people with expensive gear that a lot of other people didn’t have or couldn’t afford and this was the case already in GW1. So your comparison fails.

Gear progression is for people who need to feel powerful, not because they are skilled but because the AI does it for them via gear stats. I have more stats therefore I win. And I know a lot of people love that.

But Anet said it was their philosophy not to play that game and offer an alternative. Now, they are changing it and so far any communication they have made, few as they are, have been ambiguous at best.

I would like to believe they are not going to throw this game to the gear treadmill gods, but they haven’t exactly done their best to explain their actions…and if they have done their best, then it’s just not good enough.

Anyone can figure out that if this new gear is a step between exotic and legendary as they say, that there is something wrong there. First because the legendary items have the same stats right now and they are being raised to accomodate the new tier. They can do this again and again.

So they say they are not going to do this every 3 months, but that implies there will be more tiers in the future, just not every 3 months. And this is what I mean with poor communication. It’s ambiguous…and the worst thing is that it might be intentional.

Eain.7825:

Here’s what I don’t get.

Power creep is the only solution. There always has to be something to chase. There have to be better items, better upgrades, more things to do. As it stands Guild Wars 2 is a game where I could within 3 to 4 months have 5 exoticed 80’s, all of different classes. If I achieve that I’m done. I literally have nothing more to do.

There is a large group of people who don’t play games to have something “to chase”, they just want to have fun. A significant portion of the GW2 player base (including myself) came from GW1, which I doubt you have played judging by your post. Level cap was 20 in GW1 and I was able to get a character to that level in about 6 hours of play. Similarly, level 20 gear (best available) was much easier to get than exotics. How did they expand the game? They added new classes, new skills, new areas to explore, new PvP modes; and that’s what they should be doing in GW2. I play a lot of RTS and FPS games, and in those games there is no ahievement mentality, everyone is on equal footing all the time and they play the game to have fun. If you want something to achieve all the time, I suggest getting a job, you can work towards getting that next big promotion and buying an expensive car to reward yourself.

Eain.7825:

The way I see Guild Wars 2 as it was sold to people is as something equal to communism. People were tired of the competition and the hawkishness and the race of living in a capitalist society, where the wealthy exploited the poor. Most people feel like in MMO’s they are the poor because they don’t have the capital (time) to invest in getting somewhere with their lives (characters).

Then Guild Wars 2 comes along and promises a poor (undergeared) man’s utopia where everything’s equal and a certain quality of life is assured and people can live in a levelled playing field where life is fair. Then when it’s made people discover that the lack of progress is grounding society to a halt and that a brain drain is commencing that’s taking people back into the capitalist world of competition and opportunity. I’m sure that in 1989 the Soviet Union still had a few ardent communists running around insisting that their system was perfect, but the country collapsed two years later for a reason.

I guess GW1 was the most succesful communist game ever then, 7 years of equality with millions of players.

New content /= higher stats gear.

New content can be done with the same top gear (new skins as rewards) simply by making the mobs harder. Even if your stats haven’t improved, your skill has improved, the knowledge of your class, your build, etc. Anet could include new content with new mobs mechanics (say new mobs need to have vulnerability or poison on in order to be able to receive damage) and many other options that do not include “mobs have higher stats, get higher stats armor/weapon to beat them”

There is no need to start a power creep to add new content, guess from which company I learned that?

Power creep means you are incentived to play the game in the optimum way to keep up with the pack, if you stop to smell the roses you fall behind and are shunned by your former peers. The need for that is of course part real, but very much of it comes from psychological reasons or social/peer pressure. Unfortunately the last decade of MMOs has trained the player base pretty well, you arent going to reverse that in two months. These days, if you dont take a step towards +gooder on your items during an evening of playing a game you have wasted your evening (regardless of the amount of fun had, it is wasted. True fact.).

without the power creep you can do whatever you want…

with the power creep you are forced to repeat the same thing in order to acquire what you need or esle:

-you are cut out of certain content/groups
-you are uneffective and lose against equal or less skilled players with better gear (www)

Codus.9086:

Showatt – You are presenting a very logical answer as to why ANet are doing what they are doing, however I disagree with a few of your points, as you will probably disagree with mine.

ANet lack a fundamental feedback tool – a PTS or whatever you may call it. Their decisions are based on feedback here – on the forums – and other sources such as in-game bug reports, comments on social media, comments in the gaming press etc.

Therefore the decision they make is what they feel is best. Will they change this patch release? Not a chance. Have they taken the right step? Only time will tell.

I personally am both opposed and in support of this patch.

I support that they have addressed the huge gap in time/luck/whatever between Exotic and Legendary which may also help the current situation with pre-cursors.

I oppose that the Exotic sets that so many of us (i’m not going to say community) have worked hard to get, be it through grinding Karma, crafting or buying the items from the TP in the belief that ANet would not introduce another tier of gear, are possibly becoming obsolete.

The one screenshot we have, of the Ring, shows what I would call a significant increase in all three stats on the item. Nowhere does it suggest that this is usable only in the new area. If they get this much negative feedback about a ring – an item that was specifically chosen for display by ANet – I dread to think what the rest of the Ascended set items will bring us.

My brother wants me to tell you that he actually agrees with some of your points, but he also wants you to know that – like he has stated before – there are plenty of other ways to gather feedback. He knows this from studying user experience design, and these methods of feedback are conducted by the company, and they are not given to the mass for very obvious reason. (People calling BS and such. Other company might gain critical intel through these reports)

Again you only need to Google search User Experience Design to see some of the popular test game developers/ enterprise use to evaluate their product. These methods are less time consuming, cheaper and more accurate because the test subject chosen most likely have no prior knowledge of the game, so their opinion is 100% neutral. Now what kind of method Anet uses, no one knows.

However, since we both play the game ( I dont frequent forum as much though) I feel like I can give you some assurance on this matter:

1. I"m pretty sure your exotic will not become obsolete. You are still likely to have more stat with the rune bonus on your set, though I’m not 100% certain whether infusion will be more powerful or not, I’m willing to give Anet the benefit of the doubt.

2. On the off chance that Ascended Armor is actually better than exotic in every area, you will probably spend just as much time you have spent grinding for skins, as exotic gear – contrary to what most people believe – are really, really easy to get. In fact if you have been level 80 for a week and still not wearing full exotic (don’t have to match) something is wrong.

3. Anet has stated the Ascended Armor merely seek to shorten the gap and create some versatility to future dungeons. It is not the beginning of a treadmill, and even though more may be added, they will all be the same. My brother said that “the new dungeon” actually consist of 9 mini dungeon (9 paths), which is similar to a raid (though not in the same number of players involved as traditional MMO) and the Ascended Armor is serving as a Raid Gear. If you look at it that way, then getting this new tier of gear is actually a good thing

There will be more looks for future gear. More variety to gear up your character. Dungeons will be more versatile. The only downside to this is that player may have to grind for 1 more set of armor, which I expect to be no more difficult than getting your exotic gear.

From my point of view, the good that this patch bring clearly outweighs the bad

The only reason why everyone seem to be whining is because they don’t understand the system well enough and thought that this is going to be the start of a treadmill -which most likely isn’t – and they felt betrayed.

The only issue I see with the new patch is the way Anet is handling it. I personally feel that the devs are doing a poor job explaining the benefit of this new tier brings. When I first read the blog i was angry too, but after my brother explained what it likely is going to be to me I am actually excited now to see this change implanted.

PS. My brother is Showatt and – to no one’s surprised I’m sure – he has been suspended for vigorous posting.

EDIT. I only wish people would try to understand this change occur and maintain their faith that Anet will make good of their promise this time, as they have only broken their promise out of necessity. That’s how I see it anyway.

showatt.9413:

Exactly, Kana.

Most people actually are excited – if not, indifferent – to Ascended gears.

These people are the reason why Anet went ahead with the changes.

Because Forum is actually not the majority.

It reflects only endless repost-ing of a faction of Gw1 purist that wants Gw2 to be exactly like 1, which isn’t actually the opinion of the real “majority”.

facts suggest most people do not agree.

Do you have any fact to support yur theory?
And no Anet saying it is not a proof consider they also told we wouldn t get any gear trendmill.

On the contrary you can log and hear a general unhappiness….of people discussing the issue….even those who doesn t post on forums

“I think I have heard 3 people talking about how bad gear progression is, but before I could point out that there isn’t going to be a treadmill at all, just a new tier of gear which is more or less the same with exotic, the map chat started laughing at their ignorance.”

So you all called them idiots since fairly clearly posted this is the first of many tiers to be added for fearing more tiers being added?

I. . . ? What? Are we both speaking english.

“I’m sure that in 1989 the Soviet Union still had a few ardent communists running around insisting that their system was perfect, but the country collapsed two years later for a reason.”

Oddly, all I think when I hear this is the fact that Russia quartered it’s GDP, and tripled it’s crime and starvation rates when Communism fell.

I agree about gear grind in PVE. I don’t think PVP should have gear changes though. Keeps it more fun.

GADefence.5634:

“I think I have heard 3 people talking about how bad gear progression is, but before I could point out that there isn’t going to be a treadmill at all, just a new tier of gear which is more or less the same with exotic, the map chat started laughing at their ignorance.”

So you all called them idiots since fairly clearly posted this is the first of many tiers to be added for fearing more tiers being added?

I. . . ? What? Are we both speaking english.

Brother’s banned. Posting for him atm.
I don’t know if this actually happened ( I’m not my brother, though I tend to believe him ) but I’m pretty sure Anet never said Ascended gear is the first of many tier. What they have said is that the newly released Ascended gear will be the first of its kind, and they’re planning to add more Ascended gear in the future, which will “likely” to have similar stat, just like all exotic have similar stats, but on a different tier.

I also fairly certain that Anet has stated they are not going to roll out better gear every 3 month. If you want to doubt their words, that’s your cupcake. I for one, don’t.

LordByron.8369:

showatt.9413:

Exactly, Kana.

Most people actually are excited – if not, indifferent – to Ascended gears.

These people are the reason why Anet went ahead with the changes.

Because Forum is actually not the majority.

It reflects only endless repost-ing of a faction of Gw1 purist that wants Gw2 to be exactly like 1, which isn’t actually the opinion of the real “majority”.

facts suggest most people do not agree.

Do you have any fact to support yur theory?
And no Anet saying it is not a proof consider they also told we wouldn t get any gear trendmill.

On the contrary you can log and hear a general unhappiness….of people discussing the issue….even those who doesn t post on forums

EDIT: A Gear Treadmill means that new and better gear will be continuously created with every single expansion. Since this is only the first time it happened, I feel that it is still too early to call it a treadmill. You may call it a start of a treadmill, but until the treadmill actually moves, it is not going to be one.

In this regard, Anet actually kept their words. They haven’t created a treadmill yet. And if they haven’t done it just yet, I would believe their word when they say they aren’t going to do it every 3 month. (hence, creating a treadmill. What they have done is added one ‘final tier’ in between Exotic and Legendary, and it is going to be the final tier. Now if they actually go and add another tier in 3 month called the “Superior Ascended Gear”, then I would be getting my pitchfork out. Somehow I dont think they are. )

But maybe that’s just me. Like I said, if you want to doubt their words, that’s your cupcake. Unlike my brother, I really don’t care what the average forum goer thinks. At the end of the day it is all just whine anyway.

I only do this because my brother wants me to clear up some thing in this post for him so he can sleep better.

I just wish we could have this conversation without calling folks whiners. The fact of the matter is this (but in metaphoric terms). ANet had a sign outside their store that said “We’ve Got Doughnuts”. Now, they’ve changed to bagels. The problem is, they’ve spent over a year telling everyone about how great the doughnuts are going to be. Sure, lots of people will say, “Well, bagels are good too.” Lot’s of people are going to say, “Sweet! I like bagels better anyway!” It doesn’t mean the people who showed up for the doughnuts are wrong to be dissapointed. Some of us got sick of bagels elsewhere and came here for the doughnuts.

So for now, I’m going to eat my bagel, but with a cautious eye to what’s going to hit the table next.