Guild Wars 2

Nageth.5648:

And I disagreed and wanted to understand where the disagreement was coming from. I wanted to understand your point of view. Sorry that you don’t really care if I understand. I’ll leave you to your catharsis.

It should be very easy for you to understand.
1. You keep trying to wurm and you keep failing for a variety of reasons.
2. You’ve decided that other players not listening is the primary reason.

Solution A: Find a way to get other players to listen.
Solution B: Abandon those players in favor of grouping together your guild and friends into an overflow.

Solution B = more efficient.
If you are a masochist with infinite time to waste, go ahead and give Solution A a shot.

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

Why do players in this game have such a problem listening to orders? In games such as Eve Online, if a Commander tells you to do something people actually listen.

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Why should the take the orders?

“Don’t tell me what to do, man!” That really is what it comes down to. Unfortunately, the game with the most skill-based mechanics of any MMO I have played also has some of the most self centered and inconsiderate player base I have ever seen. People who will troll and intentionally cause a group to fail an event just because they do not like being told what needs to be done.

When you get a good group together, GW2 absolutely shines. But so much of the game requires nothing more from players than flopping their hand around the keyboard to win, so there are a small number of players who expect to succeed with no effort in any and all situations. A lot of people complain about ’casual’ness, but I find that to be wrong. It is not about how much time a person puts into the game. I have met many players who only play for a couple of hours a week that I would love to have in a group, and players who are on for several hours a day who absolutely can not work side by side with another person to save their own lives. Some people just do not want to do anything at all and still feel entitled to be able to participate in everything, even group events that require them to coordinate with others.

Edit: For an example of this, some time ask random players that you come across if they can tell you about the different combo effects. It is rather scary how many players with caped and exotic/ascended and even 25+ AR do not actually know what finishers the weapons that they commonly use are able to deliver.

Every time I succeeded completing the Marionette event on Gandara – where I play – there was a good deal of commanders who very patiently gave instructions on each lane, organized a good amount of people on each one and gave advice on each Champion. Every time I failed, there was little to no commanders, no feedback or organization.

My point is that ANet tried to make the event teach people to be interested in better themselves and grow with the challenge. It was a noble thought but the majority is simply not interested nor capable of such a thing. Thus we need commanders to tell them the basics and most will be happy to do so.

The answer to why players ignore orders is this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Clone-Wars-2-or-Why-Meta-Builds-are-for-Sheep/first#post3616529

Just read what the OP said. 100% the answer to this thread.

timidobserver.7925:

The answer to why players ignore orders is this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Clone-Wars-2-or-Why-Meta-Builds-are-for-Sheep/first#post3616529

Just read what the OP said. 100% the answer to this thread.

The answer to your opinion, which I can’t agree with (hopefully you are a civilized human being and that’s fine with you) is in this other post on that same thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Clone-Wars-2-or-Why-Meta-Builds-are-for-Sheep/first#post3616801

And the answer to this thread is simple: people will follow inspiring commanders (or people they know) rather than bossy ones. Attitude is all it boils down to. Lead with respect, and you shall be respected back. Treat people as “lowly bads” and you shall get nothing in return but scorn.

timidobserver.7925:

The answer to why players ignore orders is this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Clone-Wars-2-or-Why-Meta-Builds-are-for-Sheep/first#post3616529

Just read what the OP said. 100% the answer to this thread.

Great. Problem is I don’t understand what he’s saying. What is a “meta spec”? I don’t read the parts of the board talking about min-maxing your profession.

I also don’t spend time trying to “optimize” my build. I just make sure I have a mixture of melee and range attacks I can switch between. I don’t have BIS items for my 80s. I don’t worry about all that stuff because I rather enjoy playing than creating the ultimate X. That’s why I don’t have ascended items, exotic is good enough. And if someone would bother to take the time to explain a complicated event rather than expecting everyone would know certain terms (pin, stack, etc) and have studied the YouTube video then maybe I could enjoy an event instead of thinking I’m on Omaha Beach with a sling shot.

Problem is I see those with Commander tags as uber control freaks but at least have the decency to post a warning above their heads tells everyone who they are. I see them as an exclusionary element, who gets upset when people don’t play “the way they should” according to them. An MMO with a class trilogy is probably best for them since every class is pigeon holed in a raid but an open event is like herding cats. Expecting players who can play any way they like 99% of the time aren’t going to be the easiest to organize into a unit to follow some event mechanic. And it doesn’t help when ANet has achievements that if attempted makes failure more likely.

Get my guildies together and explain before the event what is going to happen and what to do, fine, I’ll follow them anywhere. Some random guy with a Commander Tag barking gibberish at me. Well good luck with that.

timidobserver.7925:

It should be very easy for you to understand.
1. You keep trying to wurm and you keep failing for a variety of reasons.
2. You’ve decided that other players not listening is the primary reason.

Solution A: Find a way to get other players to listen.
Solution B: Abandon those players in favor of grouping together your guild and friends into an overflow.

Solution B = more efficient.

Only if your assumption (point 2) is actually true. And only if an additional assumption you did silently make, but didn’t specify here (“other players not listening to me is not my failure as a leader, but 100% their fault”) is true as well.
By my experience that last assumption is usually false.

Hint: knowing what to do (and having a blue dorito) doesn’t make you a good leader. Being able to persuade people to listen to you however does.

Hey guess what? Do whatever you want most people run this kind of stuff with their guild so they actually listen to someone. If you guys want to ignore orders and all that good for you just don’t complain when you lose.

I think it is because most of the playerbase is actually unable to read at all. Just look at how everybody ignores whatever you write in your LFG advs and you’ll get the proof. “P1 GUARDIAN”? Warrior joins and picks p2. True story.

Shizlam.4310:

Hey guess what? Do whatever you want most people run this kind of stuff with their guild so they actually listen to someone. If you guys want to ignore orders and all that good for you just don’t complain when you lose.

I never blame other people when the event loses. I prefer to help them make it succeed. Which is also why i’d listen to the commander that does the second, but completely ignore one that does the first.
Which is all that topic is about. Commanders need to remember, that ultimately the choice to listen to them rests with the players. They do not have any right to demand obedience. And if they do, they just prove themselves to be poor leaders.

Respect is earned. That’s why some commanders have a loyal base who listen, and others, well not so much.

You can’t earn respect from a forever changing zerg. They are called zergs for a reason.
tl;dr People would rather fail forever than degrade themselves by following orders from a random guy that had 100g because even if said guy explains tactics in detail he’s just not the boss of anyone!
I spammed map chat with the advanced tactic of ranging warden 3. Guess what happened. Guess!

robertul.3679:

You can’t earn respect from a forever changing zerg. They are called zergs for a reason.
tl;dr People would rather fail forever than degrade themselves by following orders from a random guy that had 100g because even if said guy explains tactics in detail he’s just not the boss of anyone!
I spammed map chat with the advanced tactic of ranging warden 3. Guess what happened. Guess!

Your tone in this post was precisely the reason you had undesired results. You treated them as lowly “zerg bads” and were treated back in kind.

I would even add that you wasted your 100 gold if the above is any indication on how you lead. It is not all you know, but how you deliver-nobody cares that you may be experienced and “know what you are doing” if you abuse others like that.

And in the end, it is but a game. You lose the event even with you as a Commander, move on-it will be better next time. No reason to even vent about it on this thread, as if all people on maps were “disobedient bads”, as you probably do think they are.

Anyone who has a biased opinion about PvE map players, thinking of them as “carebears”, “baddies”, and the like, shouldn’t even buy a Commander tag. You are not any better, especially with that attitude.

commander tag should not be bought but “voted by” by players. “X” amount of votes and you get commander tag, .. different topic ..but point is, spending gold on something doesn’t make me want to listen to you.

If someone without that tag ask if there’s newbies or whatever and starts explaining how it is, I’ll listen, regardless of the tag they may or may not have.
But it has to be friendly.. if they start by complaining I’ll ignore them.

If you want to command, much of is pointing out what needs to be done, and importantly WHY. People dont like blindly following someone. And if the event fails “dont start complaining about how the n00bs died/needed to be ressed”, say what needed to be done.. “like don’t need to dodge whatever..run..” use long range/close .. be at whatever spot. etc.
People dont want to fail, but no one wants to be blamed for not knowing something.

Also, I dont see why I should read up on a walkthrough someone else wrote, just because they had the chance to take part in the event before I did. I do like to try things out, see what they’re like before running to youtube.

Unhappy choice of words. I can see what you mean though. In guild play, when we PvP we ‘order’, but they aren’t really orders, they’re instructions. That’s a big difference.
Veteran members of the guild are in that position for a reason, namely because they have a combination of competence, leadership and friendliness (I really like to help people).
That makes it likely they will know something someone else doesn’t, and they can help those others by giving the right instructions, that will lead to success.

For that matter, I don’t care what a random guy with a blue dorito says to me, because I don’t know him and it takes about 3 days in PvE to get one of such. “Commanders” are either people who are really competent in leadership, or morons.

Some of the most helpful players in those kinds of events haven’t had tags. I like to try to be one of them.
That said there are some class-act commanders, in WvW and in PvE, on Crystal Desert, at least.

edit: but that’s not really relevant, I guess. I think the crux of the "problem", such as it is, is the difficulty of coordinating at the scale required for some of these boss encounters. It’s certainly more exciting than the stand-and-attack-a-toe fights, but it can be frustrating when a significant portion of participants don’t do what is needed or are unaware of what’s going on and don’t seem to be reading chat.

I don’t have a commander tag. I just said on map chat something like “remember guys range warden 3” a bunch of times.

the "remember " there, gets to me, actually.. why need to add that? Simply say " range warden 3 = best success" or something,
by using "remember ", and you’re immediately assuming people haven’t/arent going to listen. And that encourages people to do exactly that..not listen.

Lot of commander hate in this thread! I understand where it comes from but I don’t think people should throw it around willy-nilly.

There are good and bad commanders, just as there are good and bad bosses in the real world. We’re all just people. But to say that all commanders are inherently control freaks or to block or ignore any commander you see outright on principle is not productive.

Some people buy the tag to troll. Some people buy the tag b/c they have the money. Some people buy the tag that have no business using it. Some commanders think the tag makes the leader. And some of us bought the tag because we enjoy being leaders and helping our community by taking those positions, and the tag helps us do that.

I understand that some people get barked at by terrible bosses all day in the real world; I’ve had my share of those bosses myself. Then you get in game and see a commander giving instructions and the thought is “This again? I came home to get away from this, f this guy.” I get that. And if the commander in question is being rude and barking orders, by all means block them.

But don’t write us all off for the failures of a few. Some of us genuinely want to be helpful leaders. The tag is a tool to help people lead; nothing more, nothing less. If you don’t like someone’s leadership (or lack thereof,) blame the person, not the tag.

tl;dr – Commanders aren’t the problem, bad leaders are. Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Wow.. This thread.. really.. Its like a course in political correctness.

The unfortunate fact is this: GW2 has an entitled and lazy community that wants to play solo in a multiplayer game. They don’t care about strategy and fight mechanics; they just want to zerg.

So bravo to Anet trying to raise the skill cap of the community with the marionette fight. And bravo to Anet for giving us some strong content in the form of the worms and tequila. Now just implement instanced versions so we can keep the ramble who don’t want to learn from ruining our gaming experience. Especially those griefers who sit on turrets just to fail the event.

Guild wars 2 also has entitled and spoiled brats who think that they can dictate to everyone else how the game must be played. “Don’t use these classes”, “use this spec”, “use these weapons”, “don’t do that”, “do this”, “ping gear”…

bah.

robertul.3679:

You can’t earn respect from a forever changing zerg. They are called zergs for a reason.
tl;dr People would rather fail forever than degrade themselves by following orders from a random guy that had 100g because even if said guy explains tactics in detail he’s just not the boss of anyone!
I spammed map chat with the advanced tactic of ranging warden 3. Guess what happened. Guess!

Not true, depending on your server, commanders can earn much respect, especially in a small WvW community such as AR.

There are a few commanders that gather mass amounts of support when they start leading, others have a few randoms, but not garnish the same support as when the respected com is on. Maybe in large wvw you don’t see this, but in some, it’s definitely noted.

You sound like a mean person. People don’t follow meanies.

Try to teach/give instructions and avoid sounding pushy or rude~ not so much give orders. Often works better. :o Doing things the other way may work in an environment where they’re supposed to listen to people like that, like the Military, but not in a simple video game like this. XD

dustinharlin.8693:

If you’re told to stack on a tag you kittening stack.

Among everything else I’ve seen from this post… Am I being trolled?

A commander should be able to have a solid rationale for everything he does, not just “I read it on Dulfy. Go read Dulfy.” Don’t blame people for not wanting it bad enough if you don’t want it bad enough to guide new talent into doing the job right. It’s as simple as keeping a text file and doing a copy/paste to convey some information.

Commander tag doesn’t mean anything – other than you spent 100g.

Respect as a commander is earned through trial and error and treating people with respect. It is also generated by success in the wvw / world events.

Commander tags now cost 100g and 250 wvw tokens.

Rauderi.8706:

dustinharlin.8693:

If you’re told to stack on a tag you kittening stack.

Among everything else I’ve seen from this post… Am I being trolled?

They have a command to check resource and count the players within a small radius of them. Stacking on a commander at marionette allows him to count the whole lane quickly and efficiently.

Its sad that people who don’t understand believe those who do are “trolling” or being stupid.

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

Please don’t pick up kegs. At least half the people ignore you and pick up kegs.
Please range Warden 3. One platform always wipes because they melee.
So on and so forth.

Why do players in this game have such a problem listening to orders? In games such as Eve Online, if a Commander tells you to do something people actually listen.

Unless they are all in your teamspeak people are not paying attention to chat very often or it could get drowned out by their guild or zone speak so they miss it. Not having a built in voice chat system in gw2 basically ensures you will never have full cooperation.

Then there’s also the rare few bads that simply does the opposite of what you say out of spite due to their own personal issues regardless of how nicely you say it or how right it is. You just gotta block them and move on with your life.

Xia.3485:

Rauderi.8706:

dustinharlin.8693:

If you’re told to stack on a tag you kittening stack.

Among everything else I’ve seen from this post… Am I being trolled?

They have a command to check resource and count the players within a small radius of them. Stacking on a commander at marionette allows him to count the whole lane quickly and efficiently.

Its sad that people who don’t understand believe those who do are “trolling” or being stupid.

Ah, so that’s what that was about. Shame that no commander could ever actually say that and just assumes everyone who didn’t shell out the 100G for a tag would know. Sad, really, since being an effective communicator is important for being an actual commander.

Name.9625:

I have a very useful suggestion for everybody that is fed up with the commanders in PvE and their attitude of being a 5 year old:
Right click -> Block -> Silence and Peace.

Works so wonderfully when you just block every commander tag on sight. And it makes Tyria a better place as well

What would work better is if you block a player who has commander tag, their tag is blocked as well so you cannot see them on map.

Sometimes you just don’t want to see that player anymore. lol
If you know what I mean? =P

People are not adverse to following orders. In fact, people love to follow orders.

The REAL problem, at least in the case of the Marionette event, is that the majority of characters are controlled by either kittened baboons or lobotomized chimps.

I stood there on the platform and I watched 2 people stand in the bomb and auto attack. They died instantly, I revived them and within 5 seconds they were down again.

It’s not a case of not wanting to, it’s a bad case of not being physically apt for activities that require a modicum of thinking.

^ I agree that situation is annoying, but it may not be their fault. The servers have been subject to sudden attacks of extreme lag and disconnects lately.

Astralporing.1957:

timidobserver.7925:

It should be very easy for you to understand.
1. You keep trying to wurm and you keep failing for a variety of reasons.
2. You’ve decided that other players not listening is the primary reason.

Solution A: Find a way to get other players to listen.
Solution B: Abandon those players in favor of grouping together your guild and friends into an overflow.

Solution B = more efficient.

Only if your assumption (point 2) is actually true. And only if an additional assumption you did silently make, but didn’t specify here (“other players not listening to me is not my failure as a leader, but 100% their fault”) is true as well.
By my experience that last assumption is usually false.

Hint: knowing what to do (and having a blue dorito) doesn’t make you a good leader. Being able to persuade people to listen to you however does.

Nope, my solution solves the problem regardless of all other factors. This is why TTS is such a massive and popular guild. Gathering a group of people that are willing to listen is the solution.

Regardless of whose fault it is, going into a private overflow = win.

I think too many of you are getting stuck on the word ‘order" the OP used. His main point, and a valid one, is that people won’t listen to commanders. Nor will they utilize the tools commanders and squads have (even though the whole commander system is severely lacking, you still need to use it to its full potential). Like when marionette first came out, I would ask every single time for people to join my squad that were going to be in my lane. It helps me keep track of them better, it helps me coordinate via map drawing, and we can separate our lane’s chat from the screaming over map chat.

Yet every single time, even up to now, I get maybe at max 1-4 people join squad….I can understand if people don’t know how, but I tell them how each time. Right click me-join squad, then /d for chat shortcut. Not rocket science.

And no, I do not issue “orders”. I let people choose their roles and I adjust from there as needed by asking for volunteers to fill in where needed. But this can only be accomplished when people show up with the mindset of willingly following a lead and working as a coordinated unit.

I can see this from a non-commander’s point too though. You got some random bloke with a tag he/she bought and nothing to back up their commanding experience to help you put trust in their command decisions.

There needs to be a better way to get this tag than just being wealthy. Something that reflects their commanding ability. I’ve always thought achievement points would be a good method. Maybe not the best, but better than just blowing gold on it. It would at least mean you spent a reasonable amount of time in game doing something and not some 10yr old kid that whipped out mom and dad’s c-card a week after they got the game just so he/she can boss around other players.

tl:dr-
Listen to your commanders please. Join their squads…use squad chat /d
If they act like jerks, leave their squad and ignore them. It’s what you were originally going to do anyway right? At least give them the chance, and make a concerted effort to pay attention.
Commanders: Don’t be jerks, respect the players, coordinate firmly but fairly and respectfully.

Lol, so much hate against commanders…
What sounds like a barked command is often the desperate try to move everyone out of a dangerous situation or finishing a boss before the timer runs out while the commander himself is facetanking the champ in full berser gear. Obviously the messages tend to be short, sometimes contain typos and sound a bit harsh.

When you see someone picking up a keg try to tell him why he shouldn’t pick that up and what pros and cons this decision has for him and the rest of the zerg. And do that in the 0.5 seconds it takes him to ruin the event! And btw dodge that attack and cast your spells at the same time…

I only recently got a commander-tag and started commanding our weekly raid on Balthasar-Temple. Luckily that’s a pretty easy event to lead and even has a chance to succeed without a commander. After all I’m still a commander in training. It usually takes one good wipe of the whole zerk for everyone to wake up and realise that the stuff I write in the chat actually makes sense. Of course we could do the event in one try if everyone follows the suggestions, but that would be too easy.

Now there are a lot of events like Worm or Marionette that you can’t just fail and retry once everyone woke up. It has to work out first try or else you have to wait 2 hours and instruct a new zerk. Whenever I see someone commanding such an event I follow each and every command without question. You can still blame the commander if the event fails even though everyone followed, right?

Up to this day I’ve never seen a commander on my server that tryed to fail an event. They always try their best to make the event succeed, make everyone get their loot and be a good commander. Sometimes it sounds harsh, but who cares?

Contrary to PvE there are some seriously bad commanders in WvW. Running around aimlessly, not finishing anything they start and then being overrun by the enemy zerk. I even had one jumping down a cliff and dying. The whole zerk of 40 people jumped right after him just like the lemmings…

You can find out wether a commander is good or bad simply by following his orders for some time. But you have to give new commanders such a chance or else they will be playing only with their guildmates. All that’s left then are idiots that like to boss people around.

As a finishing touch I’d like to encourage everyone to try commanding once in a while. If you think you know what makes a good commander, then pick an easy event that requires some cooperation and often fails or is difficult without a commander and lead everyone to victory. I can assure you that it’s a good feeling to be thanked for leading and some players might even ask wether you intend to lead them again sometime.

Behellagh.1468:

timidobserver.7925:

The answer to why players ignore orders is this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Clone-Wars-2-or-Why-Meta-Builds-are-for-Sheep/first#post3616529

Just read what the OP said. 100% the answer to this thread.

Great. Problem is I don’t understand what he’s saying. What is a “meta spec”? I don’t read the parts of the board talking about min-maxing your profession.

I also don’t spend time trying to “optimize” my build. I just make sure I have a mixture of melee and range attacks I can switch between. I don’t have BIS items for my 80s. I don’t worry about all that stuff because I rather enjoy playing than creating the ultimate X. That’s why I don’t have ascended items, exotic is good enough. And if someone would bother to take the time to explain a complicated event rather than expecting everyone would know certain terms (pin, stack, etc) and have studied the YouTube video then maybe I could enjoy an event instead of thinking I’m on Omaha Beach with a sling shot.

Problem is I see those with Commander tags as uber control freaks but at least have the decency to post a warning above their heads tells everyone who they are. I see them as an exclusionary element, who gets upset when people don’t play “the way they should” according to them. An MMO with a class trilogy is probably best for them since every class is pigeon holed in a raid but an open event is like herding cats. Expecting players who can play any way they like 99% of the time aren’t going to be the easiest to organize into a unit to follow some event mechanic. And it doesn’t help when ANet has achievements that if attempted makes failure more likely.

Get my guildies together and explain before the event what is going to happen and what to do, fine, I’ll follow them anywhere. Some random guy with a Commander Tag barking gibberish at me. Well good luck with that.

Since it was my post, I’ll answer. Commanders need to organize the groups and describe the fights for those that don’t know it, but aiming to have 8 classes all running the same specs isn’t realistic.

Organize sure, but your tag gives you no special powers, any more than my tag gives me magical do as I say mind control.

DreamyAbaddon.3265:

Name.9625:

I have a very useful suggestion for everybody that is fed up with the commanders in PvE and their attitude of being a 5 year old:
Right click -> Block -> Silence and Peace.

Works so wonderfully when you just block every commander tag on sight. And it makes Tyria a better place as well

What would work better is if you block a player who has commander tag, their tag is blocked as well so you cannot see them on map.

Sometimes you just don’t want to see that player anymore. lol
If you know what I mean? =P

So much! Anet we need this bit of QoL introduced. Let the commander icon disappear when you block the player.

Last night I got whispered by players, asking why I wasn’t commanding the midnight run for the marionette. Now that is a nice compliment. I suppose some people do appreciate a nice commander.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I suppose some people do appreciate a nice commander.

Absolutely. I was not there last night, but I was on your server once earlier. I really appreciated how you handled the defeat that time. Anytime you’re in the neighbourhood, feel free to drop in for a cup of tea.

fun fact, i won big DE’s by ether giving commands or listening to someone who knows the deal and guess what, i don’t have a commander tag yet i do better…..
you know why, because i don’t caps lock everything nor do i demand obedience, i just lay down the best way to take down a DE while studying movements of both players and enemies.

staying nice and having an insight of strategy is better then shouting commands and belittling the ones who don’t listen, you don’t have to hold hands but a nice attitude is half the success.

@OP

Because we’re all a bunch of insubordinating kittenholes.