Guild Wars 2

dietzero.3514:

Wanze.8410:

In the end, i agree, that light armor users are a bit shafted by the daily timegate and I dont mind, if they find a way to bring them on par with medium and heavy armor.

But then we have to look at other timegates as well, that are disproportionally distributed.

Why do heavy armor users have to spend 55 laurels and 33g for the recipes in order to get a full ascended weapon set and an engi only has to spend 20 laurels and 12g, an ele only needs 25 laurels and 15g?

35 Laurels is a huge difference and makes the 6 days that a light armor user needs more to craft his damask (which can be circumvented by buying it directly anyways) seem miniscule.

35 laurels is easily gotten with the new system. And are you seriously saying that HAVING MORE WEAPON CHOICES is a bad thing?? I am sure Engineers And Eles would gladly be ‘punished’ with having to craft more ascended weapons, if they had more weapons to use.

Seriously…that is one of the single worst arguments I have ever seen on here.

I don’t see this as an argument but more of a demonstration of other aspects of the game where gear differences exist. The real point I see being made is that it’s a fool’s errand to attempt to balance all these differences out so they don’t exist to make it equal for each class. I also don’t see a compelling reason from anyone to justify doing so. In fact, if Anet wanted equality in crafting ‘effort’ for every class, it would have been easier for them to take that route in the first place but they didn’t for reasons.

The trick here is to think of what those reasons are and understand them in terms of the game concepts instead of rallying around ‘fairness’ as some moral standard that players (wrongly) think the game should aspire to.

dietzero.3514:

Wanze.8410:

In the end, i agree, that light armor users are a bit shafted by the daily timegate and I dont mind, if they find a way to bring them on par with medium and heavy armor.

But then we have to look at other timegates as well, that are disproportionally distributed.

Why do heavy armor users have to spend 55 laurels and 33g for the recipes in order to get a full ascended weapon set and an engi only has to spend 20 laurels and 12g, an ele only needs 25 laurels and 15g?

35 Laurels is a huge difference and makes the 6 days that a light armor user needs more to craft his damask (which can be circumvented by buying it directly anyways) seem miniscule.

35 laurels is easily gotten with the new system. And are you seriously saying that HAVING MORE WEAPON CHOICES is a bad thing?? I am sure Engineers And Eles would gladly be ‘punished’ with having to craft more ascended weapons, if they had more weapons to use.

Seriously…that is one of the single worst arguments I have ever seen on here.

I bet you 5 million karma that i will be able to acquire 6 bolts of damask faster than you will be able to collect 35 laurels.

So my sense of fairness demands anet to take care of the timegate imbalance between heavy classes and engies first.

Wanze.8410:

dietzero.3514:

Wanze.8410:

In the end, i agree, that light armor users are a bit shafted by the daily timegate and I dont mind, if they find a way to bring them on par with medium and heavy armor.

But then we have to look at other timegates as well, that are disproportionally distributed.

Why do heavy armor users have to spend 55 laurels and 33g for the recipes in order to get a full ascended weapon set and an engi only has to spend 20 laurels and 12g, an ele only needs 25 laurels and 15g?

35 Laurels is a huge difference and makes the 6 days that a light armor user needs more to craft his damask (which can be circumvented by buying it directly anyways) seem miniscule.

35 laurels is easily gotten with the new system. And are you seriously saying that HAVING MORE WEAPON CHOICES is a bad thing?? I am sure Engineers And Eles would gladly be ‘punished’ with having to craft more ascended weapons, if they had more weapons to use.

Seriously…that is one of the single worst arguments I have ever seen on here.

I bet you 5 million karma that i will be able to acquire 6 bolts of damask faster than you will be able to collect 35 laurels.

So my sense of fairness demands anet to take care of the timegate imbalance between heavy classes and engies first.

Takes 30 seconds a day to acquire Laurels. At no cost.

And the point is, having more weapons IS A VERY GOOD THING AND WHAT ALL PROFESSIONS WANT. You claiming it as a negative because you need to make more weapons is absolutely ridiculous.

You see Anet toting less weapons for professions in the expansion? No? Right.

Wanze.8410:

dietzero.3514:

Wanze.8410:

Why do heavy armor users have to spend 55 laurels and 33g for the recipes in order to get a full ascended weapon set and an engi only has to spend 20 laurels and 12g, an ele only needs 25 laurels and 15g?

35 Laurels is a huge difference and makes the 6 days that a light armor user needs more to craft his damask (which can be circumvented by buying it directly anyways) seem miniscule.

35 laurels is easily gotten with the new system. And are you seriously saying that HAVING MORE WEAPON CHOICES is a bad thing?? I am sure Engineers And Eles would gladly be ‘punished’ with having to craft more ascended weapons, if they had more weapons to use.

Seriously…that is one of the single worst arguments I have ever seen on here.

I bet you 5 million karma that i will be able to acquire 6 bolts of damask faster than you will be able to collect 35 laurels.

So my sense of fairness demands anet to take care of the timegate imbalance between heavy classes and engies first.

5 million karma is worthless anyways…

the argument you made was that because heavy armor classes have more weapon choices they have to spend more money to make a full set of ascended weapons. That’s a bad argument because ele’s and engies would prob enjoy having more weapon choices even if it cost more. But even then you’re argument is bad because sure a full set of ascended weapons will cost a heavy armor class a lot of laurels…but who needs a full set. If you’re a warrior you only need gs axe mace and sword…and maybe MAYBE shield if you’re kiting mai’s shot and you have no guardian in your group. If you’re a guardian you only need gs hammer scepter focus and sword. So both classes need at max five ascended weapons and its still more like 4 weapons because you can do without hammer and shield. Elementalists need 4 weapons staff dagger scepter and focus, however i would argue they need another dagger to make sigils work. So its the same number of weapons since all of these classes will only use 4-5 of these weapons.

I would be interested in finding out how to only need 30 seconds to acquire Laurels a day at no cost. I must be missing something. That’s not sarcasm, I just don’t know how it would be done.

Wanze.8410:

dietzero.3514:

Wanze.8410:

In the end, i agree, that light armor users are a bit shafted by the daily timegate and I dont mind, if they find a way to bring them on par with medium and heavy armor.

But then we have to look at other timegates as well, that are disproportionally distributed.

Why do heavy armor users have to spend 55 laurels and 33g for the recipes in order to get a full ascended weapon set and an engi only has to spend 20 laurels and 12g, an ele only needs 25 laurels and 15g?

35 Laurels is a huge difference and makes the 6 days that a light armor user needs more to craft his damask (which can be circumvented by buying it directly anyways) seem miniscule.

35 laurels is easily gotten with the new system. And are you seriously saying that HAVING MORE WEAPON CHOICES is a bad thing?? I am sure Engineers And Eles would gladly be ‘punished’ with having to craft more ascended weapons, if they had more weapons to use.

Seriously…that is one of the single worst arguments I have ever seen on here.

I bet you 5 million karma that i will be able to acquire 6 bolts of damask faster than you will be able to collect 35 laurels.

So my sense of fairness demands anet to take care of the timegate imbalance between heavy classes and engies first.

you can only use 2 weapons in combat max.

This means you have the same powerlevel as an engineer with a 2 ascended weapons
getting more weapons after that is closer to getting more armor sets (prefixes) rather than getting ascended versus exotic.

this issue is a distraction anyway, it has nothing to do with silk/damask

Other than showing there’s more than one place where class dictates effort to gear non-uniformly.

There are a couple things that could be done to make the situation more equitable, but ArenaNet knows that and has chosen not to. This is a live game not a drawing board exercise so any changes in the name of symmetry and/or justice have to not badly disrupt the experience of early adopters who’ve already paid the higher prices.

Very few suggestions address the fact the system has already been out in the wild for a year now.

Nike.2631:

Other than showing there’s more than one place where class dictates effort to gear non-uniformly.

There are a couple things that could be done to make the situation more equitable, but ArenaNet knows that and has chosen not to. This is a live game not a drawing board exercise so any changes in the name of symmetry and/or justice have to not badly disrupt the experience of early adopters who’ve already paid the higher prices.

Very few suggestions address the fact the system has already been out in the wild for a year now.

The world has to move forward, and issues need to be resolved. You cant hold back progress because people invested in the past.

While i dont think you should destroy past player work/achievements, i dont think you should completely throw away progress for fear of this.

By this definition, every thing that is wrong, must stay wrong forever. Thats not a good operating parameter.
Id rather have fixes to game problems rather than having everyone who comes after me suffer the same flaws.

i killed tons of champs before they dropped boxes
i did dungeons when they took an hour and paid 15 silver
i got obsidian shards when you could only get them from one event in the game
i leveled when there was tons of broken dynamic events and skill points would get broken
i did fractals when you could roll molten cliffside and shaman (and we rolled that a bunch of times)

this doesnt mean they should never have fixed/changed anything, everyone shouldnt suffer just because i did.

Could always take a light armor class and go farm Large Ritual Bags in Fireheart Rise if you want more silk in the economy.

Shiyo.3578:

Can you please change it to only needing 2 scraps per refinement and not needing 100 per ascended material instead of the 50 every other mat requires? The price of silk is going up AGAIN and there’s no reason for a single ascended mat to be 4x the price of the other ones.

I agree, why does this require 3 scraps? Same with soft wood requiring 4 logs, it’s rediculous.

Also, why aren’t trading prices CAPPED at a certain point, preventing these annoying TP-flippers from driving the prices sky high. It’s a classic case of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.

DeWolfe.2174:

Could always take a light armor class and go farm Large Ritual Bags in Fireheart Rise if you want more silk in the economy.

Even if they know, the people complaining would never do this. It’s not about silk being unavailable, it’s about the fact that it’s not fair for them to have to get more than anyone else. Even if it rained on their heads, they would still think it’s cause to complain.

I got a suggestion to fix this … take the damask requirement for med/heavy armor out. Then there is more silk for the lights, and I can continue to sell it to them.

DeWolfe.2174:

Could always take a light armor class and go farm Large Ritual Bags in Fireheart Rise if you want more silk in the economy.

you get less doing this than just mass killing in other zones.

Well I hope they do something soon, it’s getting rediculous to have to pay over 6g for a stack just to craft a daily thread!

As I said, cap the price .. done.

Rentapest.6503:

Well I hope they do something soon, it’s getting rediculous to have to pay over 6g for a stack just to craft a daily thread!

As I said, cap the price .. done.

Cap price, supply drops because it’s no longer as profitable to sell and people start hoarding. People start selling over the black market (player to player) or trading guilds pop up for trusted player to player trading (with higher unregulated prices for silk).

I want to sell my stacks of silk bolts but I don’t want to sell it for the capped price. There is a guild that handles selling to players. I sell my silk to them and they resale to other players for a higher price. Once this gets going and other guilds get in the business and other players, supply drops further in the trading post.

DeWolfe.2174:

Could always take a light armor class and go farm Large Ritual Bags in Fireheart Rise if you want more silk in the economy.

Easier to just WvW. T1 provides an overabundance of silk.

Sadly the doors of EotM drop nothing, silk or otherwise….

This is great! For a casual player. Gone are the days when I had to lament over getting nothing but two greens and a blue. Now, I can freely enjoy casual activities such as jumping puzzles, world bosses, and random events, and rejoice when I receive fine and masterwork gear as loot. After all, a third of the time the equipment will salvage into silk, which was worthless before. But now, the silk I get from casually playing actually has value, allowing me to sell it and slowly get any exotic gear I want, a high end grade of gear that allows me to experience everything the game has to offer, from open world exploration to WvW to dungeons, without much of a hitch. I’m so glad that silk prices are going up, because now the loot in the game just feels so much more rewarding.

Obtena.7952:

I would be interested in finding out how to only need 30 seconds to acquire Laurels a day at no cost. I must be missing something. That’s not sarcasm, I just don’t know how it would be done.

log in…

Wonderly.1324:

This is great! For a casual player. Gone are the days when I had to lament over getting nothing but two greens and a blue. Now, I can freely enjoy casual activities such as jumping puzzles, world bosses, and random events, and rejoice when I receive fine and masterwork gear as loot. After all, a third of the time the equipment will salvage into silk, which was worthless before. But now, the silk I get from casually playing actually has value, allowing me to sell it and slowly get any exotic gear I want, a high end grade of gear that allows me to experience everything the game has to offer, from open world exploration to WvW to dungeons, without much of a hitch. I’m so glad that silk prices are going up, because now the loot in the game just feels so much more rewarding.

Come back when you’re trying to gear up in ascended light armor(or any), would love to hear what you have to say.

All exotic equipment: +1002 power, +698 precision, +698 ferocity

• Basic damage, 527/527/678

All exotic armor, weapon, ascended trinkets: 1064 power (62 over all exotic, 6%), 728 precision (30 over all exotic, 4.3%), 728 ferocity (30 over all exotic, 4.3%) (4.86% average boost)

• Basic damage, 544/544/700 (17/17/22 over all exotic, 3%/3%/3%)

All Ascended trinkets, armor, exotic weapon: 1078 (76 over all exotic, 7.6%), 739 precision (41 over all exotic, 6%), 739 ferocity (41 over all exotic, 6%)(6.53% average boost)

• Basic damage, 547/547/705 (20/20/27 over all exotic, 3.8%/3.8%/4%)

All ascended equipment: 1087 power (89 over all exotic, 9%), 745 precision (47 over all exotic, 6.7%), 745 ferocity (47 over all exotic, 6.7%)(7.46% average boost)

• Basic damage, 577/577/743 (50/50/65 over all exotic, 9.5%/9.5%/9.6%)

All exotic equipment, ascended weapon: 1011 power (9 over all exotic, ~1%), 704 precision/ferocity (6 over all exotic, ~1%)(~1% average boost)

• Basic damage 556/556/715 (29/29/37 over all exotic, 5.5%/5.5%/5.5%)

Cost of ascended warrior weapon: ~50g
Cost of Ascended trinkets: 24 guild commendations, 20 laurels, 250 badges of honor, 20 pristine fractal relics, whatever the cost is for the cheapest mystic forge backpiece
Cost of ascended heavy armor: 63g,63g,63g,69g,73g,74g
Cost of offensive mighty infusions: >50g each, >300g for all 6 potential slots, each infusion giving less than half a percent of a boost compared to exotic armor. Complete junk for the cost.

Conclusion: Ascended armor overall is expensive for the boosts given, regardless of weight. Ascended weapons are more effective in increasing damage for a “budget” concerned player. Concerns over ascended armor being a requirement for anything other than high tier fractals for agony resistance are, again, complete bullkitten and players attempting to find an argument where none exists. Now, as a group, lets move on from the offtopic discussion of whether ascended armor is a necessity. If you desire to, make a thread for us to continue the discussion about that.

Furthermore, if possible, I’d like JS to contribute some information if he’s allowed to, in order to help provide some immutable points for the discussion:

• the average number of silk scraps moved through the TP, average demand, average supply, for the timeframe of 0000UTC 02/21/2015 through 0000UTC 02/28/2015, rounded down to the nearest 100,000
• the average number of bolts of silk moved through the TP, average demand, average supply, for the same timeframe of 0000UTC 02/21/2015 through 0000UTC 02/28/2015, rounded down to the nearest 100,000
• the average number of bolts of damask moved through the TP, average demand, average supply, for the same timeframe of 0000UTC 02/21/2015 through 0000UTC 02/28/2015, rounded down to the nearest 100,000*

*nearest 10,000 is acceptable if the TP information does not allow 100,000 points to accurately portray numbers, also, if timeframe is too recent, an older timeframe of same duration will work

If this information gets provided, we’ll be able to more accurately debate why silk is going up in price, and whether the perceived problems really are problems.

Astralporing.1957:

pdavis.8031:

I can farm more silk than I can the other mats fairly easily and without much effort.

There is no way you can farm silk more easily than you could farm mithril or elder wood. If you can, please, do share your miracle source.

Silverwastes. Its not hard to get an prganized map, or to start one. Do the events, get lots of loot and bags. Then go do the Hidden depths. In an average run I can get about 20 heirloom seed pouches which contain 0-3 scraps of silk. And around 25-30 bags of gear. Salvage all the cloth. I get about 80-100 scraps per run. Do it again and profit. Doing this I get more silk faster than I can doing say a platinum mining run or an elder wood logging run.

pdavis.8031:

Astralporing.1957:

pdavis.8031:

I can farm more silk than I can the other mats fairly easily and without much effort.

There is no way you can farm silk more easily than you could farm mithril or elder wood. If you can, please, do share your miracle source.

Silverwastes. Its not hard to get an prganized map, or to start one. Do the events, get lots of loot and bags. Then go do the Hidden depths. In an average run I can get about 20 heirloom seed pouches which contain 0-3 scraps of silk. And around 25-30 bags of gear. Salvage all the cloth. I get about 80-100 scraps per run. Do it again and profit. Doing this I get more silk faster than I can doing say a platinum mining run or an elder wood logging run.

That is much slower than mining and logging.

insanemaniac.2456:

Obtena.7952:

I would be interested in finding out how to only need 30 seconds to acquire Laurels a day at no cost. I must be missing something. That’s not sarcasm, I just don’t know how it would be done.

log in…

Yes and? From what I can tell, I did not receive a laurel for logging in. I’m sure I had 59 yesterday … I still have 59. I’m going to check if I will have 59 tomorrow when I log in too.

Obtena.7952:

insanemaniac.2456:

Obtena.7952:

I would be interested in finding out how to only need 30 seconds to acquire Laurels a day at no cost. I must be missing something. That’s not sarcasm, I just don’t know how it would be done.

log in…

Yes and? From what I can tell, I did not receive a laurel for logging in. I’m sure I had 59 yesterday … I still have 59. I’m going to check if I will have 59 tomorrow when I log in too.

I think the reference was to 30 seconds (perhaps less depending on your system/connection) to log in each day and get 35 laurels (55 if you take the bonus laurels at the end of the cycle) over time. So, on average, over 1 laurel per day over time.

Not saying that I agree with that representation when measuring the time it takes to get laurels, but one can make the argument that one need spend only 14 minutes of one’s time to get as many kitten laurels.

Ashen.2907:

Obtena.7952:

insanemaniac.2456:

Obtena.7952:

I would be interested in finding out how to only need 30 seconds to acquire Laurels a day at no cost. I must be missing something. That’s not sarcasm, I just don’t know how it would be done.

log in…

Yes and? From what I can tell, I did not receive a laurel for logging in. I’m sure I had 59 yesterday … I still have 59. I’m going to check if I will have 59 tomorrow when I log in too.

I think the reference was to 30 seconds (perhaps less depending on your system/connection) to log in each day and get 35 laurels (55 if you take the bonus laurels at the end of the cycle) over time. So, on average, over 1 laurel per day over time.

Not saying that I agree with that representation when measuring the time it takes to get laurels, but one can make the argument that one need spend only 14 minutes of one’s time to get as many kitten laurels.

in terms of effort required, yes its really low.

laurels kind of suck

Rentapest.6503:

Well I hope they do something soon, it’s getting rediculous to have to pay over 6g for a stack just to craft a daily thread!

As I said, cap the price .. done.

I keep seeing people give this type of suggestions, so I’m gonna try to give a short explanation of why this is such a bad idea.

Let’s say the devs give in and let you have what you want. They cap the price of silk scraps at (let’s say) 2s.

That very day I will read the patch notes and put up 100,000 (Yes, a hundred thousand) buy orders for silk on the tp at exactly 2s. This is because I understand how things work. And not just me. Every person with half a brain will do the exact same thing. And my 2000g investment will be tiny compared to the real TP moguls, whose gold balances are either at or near the six-digit mark.

People who farm silk will do one of two things: they’ll sell it to me (or more likely, the TP moguls) or hoard it (most people will do this). Because it’s better than waiting weeks for your tiny 2s buy order to fill.

The outstanding sell orders will clear in about a day (Let’s be generous. A week). There will be no silk on sale AT ALL because you can’t add any more sell orders above 2s.

Anyone who doesn’t understand economics who wants silk will check the tp, and see about a jillion buy orders that he cannot outbid (remember, you capped the price) and be forced to wait his ungodly long turn OR buy the silk goods that I am gonna ludicrously overprice. You’ll be buying silk bolts at 15s. Prolly more. Because until my giant stack of buy orders clears, I am the only person who can get silk off the TP.

The LFG tool will be filled to the gills of people trying to hawk silk scraps for their real (read:inflated) market value. Lion’s Arch chat will be filled with spam along the lines of “WTS SILK SCRAPS 5s”

Regular people like you will cry while the TP moguls will drink your tears, probably while swimming in mounds of silk scraps.

With regard to silk bolts requiring 3 scraps:

This is not so cut and dried. Anet could change this requirement (back to 2 scraps) and make the price of silk drop. But this would probably upset a waaaay larger portion of the playerbase than it would please. This is because the 3 silk scraps → 1 silk bolt recipe has been the status quo for a pretty long time now. Almost everyone who plays regularly and wants their ascended gear has already made it.

While it’s true that the situation is unfair for light armor wearers, you’re forgetting that the entire point of ascended armor is to be a ridiculous time (and money) sink. Look at the stats. You can gear in full ascended trinkets with nothing but laurels and guild missions (or fractals). The ascended weapons give a noticeable boost. But the ascended armor has a negligible stat gain unless you are willing to throw a fortune (for +power, it’s about a thousand gold just for the armor) into statted infusions. And yet it’s far and away the most expensive part of getting full ascended gear.

Let’s not forget that the high price of silk scraps actually helps casual players. Let’s be honest. The price of ascended gear means that most casual players do not want it. I myself have only one character, my main, in full ascended gear. The main way it affects casuals is that now, when they farm lvl 80 zones, the salvage they get is actually worth something. My ultra-casual buddy with 2k AP and who plays only an hour a day can do Silverwastes during that time and sell all the silk he gets. If nothing else, the best way to make things fairer to light armor wearers would be to make mithril and thick leather ALSO require three per combine. THAT is how casual players benefit.

If you chase ascended armor, you frankly have no complaint coming about the cost. It’s completely optional (even 49 fractals, can be done in only ascended trinkets and weapons, no ascended armor, using only +5AR infusions. If you’re doing lvl 50 fractals, pony up the money, you cheapskate). In all the time since ascended armor’s release, I’ve never seen anyone expect anyone else to have it. If you are getting ascended armor, you’re beyond a “casual gamer”. It’s there to make stupid people who need kitten (like myself, sigh) to spend gobs of gold in order to get negligible stat increases.

Aidan Savage.2078:

All exotic equipment: +1002 power, +698 precision, +698 ferocity

• Basic damage, 527/527/678

All exotic armor, weapon, ascended trinkets: 1064 power (62 over all exotic, 6%), 728 precision (30 over all exotic, 4.3%), 728 ferocity (30 over all exotic, 4.3%) (4.86% average boost)

• Basic damage, 544/544/700 (17/17/22 over all exotic, 3%/3%/3%)

All Ascended trinkets, armor, exotic weapon: 1078 (76 over all exotic, 7.6%), 739 precision (41 over all exotic, 6%), 739 ferocity (41 over all exotic, 6%)(6.53% average boost)

• Basic damage, 547/547/705 (20/20/27 over all exotic, 3.8%/3.8%/4%)

All ascended equipment: 1087 power (89 over all exotic, 9%), 745 precision (47 over all exotic, 6.7%), 745 ferocity (47 over all exotic, 6.7%)(7.46% average boost)

• Basic damage, 577/577/743 (50/50/65 over all exotic, 9.5%/9.5%/9.6%)

All exotic equipment, ascended weapon: 1011 power (9 over all exotic, ~1%), 704 precision/ferocity (6 over all exotic, ~1%)(~1% average boost)

• Basic damage 556/556/715 (29/29/37 over all exotic, 5.5%/5.5%/5.5%)

Cost of ascended warrior weapon: ~50g
Cost of Ascended trinkets: 24 guild commendations, 20 laurels, 250 badges of honor, 20 pristine fractal relics, whatever the cost is for the cheapest mystic forge backpiece
Cost of ascended heavy armor: 63g,63g,63g,69g,73g,74g
Cost of offensive mighty infusions: >50g each, >300g for all 6 potential slots, each infusion giving less than half a percent of a boost compared to exotic armor. Complete junk for the cost.

Conclusion: Ascended armor overall is expensive for the boosts given, regardless of weight. Ascended weapons are more effective in increasing damage for a “budget” concerned player. Concerns over ascended armor being a requirement for anything other than high tier fractals for agony resistance are, again, complete bullkitten and players attempting to find an argument where none exists. Now, as a group, lets move on from the offtopic discussion of whether ascended armor is a necessity. If you desire to, make a thread for us to continue the discussion about that.

Furthermore, if possible, I’d like JS to contribute some information if he’s allowed to, in order to help provide some immutable points for the discussion:

• the average number of silk scraps moved through the TP, average demand, average supply, for the timeframe of 0000UTC 02/21/2015 through 0000UTC 02/28/2015, rounded down to the nearest 100,000
• the average number of bolts of silk moved through the TP, average demand, average supply, for the same timeframe of 0000UTC 02/21/2015 through 0000UTC 02/28/2015, rounded down to the nearest 100,000
• the average number of bolts of damask moved through the TP, average demand, average supply, for the same timeframe of 0000UTC 02/21/2015 through 0000UTC 02/28/2015, rounded down to the nearest 100,000*

*nearest 10,000 is acceptable if the TP information does not allow 100,000 points to accurately portray numbers, also, if timeframe is too recent, an older timeframe of same duration will work

If this information gets provided, we’ll be able to more accurately debate why silk is going up in price, and whether the perceived problems really are problems.

But I spared no expense.

Rigged.1395:

With regard to silk bolts requiring 3 scraps:

This is not so cut and dried. Anet could change this requirement (back to 2 scraps) and make the price of silk drop. But this would probably upset a waaaay larger portion of the playerbase than it would please. This is because the 3 silk scraps -> 1 silk bolt recipe has been the status quo for a pretty long time now. Almost everyone who plays regularly and wants their ascended gear has already made it.

While it’s true that the situation is unfair for light armor wearers, you’re forgetting that the entire point of ascended armor is to be a ridiculous time (and money) sink. Look at the stats. You can gear in full ascended trinkets with nothing but laurels and guild missions (or fractals). The ascended weapons give a noticeable boost. But the ascended armor has a negligible stat gain unless you are willing to throw a fortune (for +power, it’s about a thousand gold just for the armor) into statted infusions. And yet it’s far and away the most expensive part of getting full ascended gear.

Let’s not forget that the high price of silk scraps actually helps casual players. Let’s be honest. The price of ascended gear means that most casual players do not want it. I myself have only one character, my main, in full ascended gear. The main way it affects casuals is that now, when they farm lvl 80 zones, the salvage they get is actually worth something. My ultra-casual buddy with 2k AP and who plays only an hour a day can do Silverwastes during that time and sell all the silk he gets. If nothing else, the best way to make things fairer to light armor wearers would be to make mithril and thick leather ALSO require three per combine. THAT is how casual players benefit.

If you chase ascended armor, you frankly have no complaint coming about the cost. It’s completely optional (even 49 fractals, can be done in only ascended trinkets and weapons, no ascended armor, using only +5AR infusions. If you’re doing lvl 50 fractals, pony up the money, you cheapskate). In all the time since ascended armor’s release, I’ve never seen anyone expect anyone else to have it. If you are getting ascended armor, you’re beyond a “casual gamer”. It’s there to make stupid people who need kitten (like myself, sigh) to spend gobs of gold in order to get negligible stat increases.

the best method for aquiring silk, is killing tons of level 80 monsters, in large numbers, it was the best method for gold farming before silk, and it would still be the best method if silk was 10 copper. If your friend is getting silk, hes getting t5 fine materials, t6 materials, rares, ectos, greens that can be sold for 1-2 silver each orichalcum etc.
essentially, it is already the most profitable farms in the game anyhow.
silk is just icing on the cake.

Even considering that for some reason this is prefered, why are silk people paying disproportionally to finance these poor souls (who arent really poor)

The price of scraps has been higher in the past. It’s at about the same price as it was July 9th 2014. Seems like a normal fluctuation to me.

As far as why it takes so many more scraps idk, I didn’t agree with it back when they changed it, but I remember reading that it wasn’t a mistake. I don’t see why it should change now that so many have invested the time and resources to make cloth armor.

The drop rates on cloth do increase with various events (wintersday gave them out from the dusty clothes for example). Too expensive for you right now? Just wait and see what the next event brings and save your gold. The stat difference between exotic and ascended armor is very small anyways.

Chista.4750:

Not to be cruel, but I play 8-13 hours a day at the moment, I play a mesmer (cloth based) but I make roughly 150 scraps a day. sometimes more, sometimes less, through regular play. In that same time, just off my salvages, I do get roughly a stack of leather bits and 200+ mithril. Never bothered to count wood. If I want to get 300 silk, I need to spend 8 hours farming -specific- mobs, alternating two places when I get bored. I gave this up because I play to experience the illustrious feeling of “fun” which farming flame legion and zombies for 8 hours is -not-.

This is not a situation that can be viewed through one person’s playstyle or their luck, but rather demands a vision through the over all picture. The Truth is that silk is 7S35 per bolt as of writing this, whereas Mithril is 1S, Elder Planks 1S25 and cured thick leather squares an appallingly low 30C. All on Buyout, not order.

This simply means that supply/demand ratios for these materials are not equally distributed, or you’d see more of a 2-3 silver difference between these materials, not 6. High end difference for the things that can be farmed of course, since they’ll never be as expensive.

Mithril is the most abundant material in the entire game, and the most usless might I add. That is why is it so cheap (41c last I checked). There are more mithril nodes in the world of GW2 than anything else. Mithril doesn’t make much of anything uselful outside of getting to 400 in a craft. Iron ore is pretty abundant as well, but it goes for a little bit more on the TP because its useful in making ascended weapons. Price is determined on what these materials make, not just their availability. This is also why gossamer is cheaper than silk. 150 scraps a day is pretty good IMO. You’re doing better than me.

Again, let me go back to the example of Ectoplasm. I’ve been playing for a year now. My magic find is in the 150% range. Even with a basic salvage kit you can pull ectos from rares. it may take a few days to get to 100, but ecto isn’t rare by any means. Hit a few world bosses a day and you’re guaranteed a nice little batch… It goes for 33 silver on the TP… that is ridiculous for something that can be gains so easily. It is the price of convenience.

It’s an MMO, if you play casually, you’re gonna get casual stuff. Its as simple as that. Is it really that cruel? If everyone was running around with legendary weapons and ascended armor i’d imagine the game’s appeal would have died down a lot more quickly.

You’re right, it can’t be viewed through a single play style. I was accused of being “grindy” and that is simply not the case. If someone only puts 2-3 hours a day into GW2, then they aren’t going to get a lot of silk, much less have enough funds to buy enough. That’s just the reality of things no matter what successful MMO you play.

Aberrant.6749:

The price of scraps has been higher in the past. It’s at about the same price as it was July 9th 2014. Seems like a normal fluctuation to me.

As far as why it takes so many more scraps idk, I didn’t agree with it back when they changed it, but I remember reading that it wasn’t a mistake. I don’t see why it should change now that so many have invested the time and resources to make cloth armor.

The drop rates on cloth do increase with various events (wintersday gave them out from the dusty clothes for example). Too expensive for you right now? Just wait and see what the next event brings and save your gold. The stat difference between exotic and ascended armor is very small anyways.

im starting to realize, that most of the people disagreeing with fixing silk/ascended, are basically just trying to protect their current racket.

BIGHARSHNESS.3510:

Chista.4750:

Not to be cruel, but I play 8-13 hours a day at the moment, I play a mesmer (cloth based) but I make roughly 150 scraps a day. sometimes more, sometimes less, through regular play. In that same time, just off my salvages, I do get roughly a stack of leather bits and 200+ mithril. Never bothered to count wood. If I want to get 300 silk, I need to spend 8 hours farming -specific- mobs, alternating two places when I get bored. I gave this up because I play to experience the illustrious feeling of “fun” which farming flame legion and zombies for 8 hours is -not-.

This is not a situation that can be viewed through one person’s playstyle or their luck, but rather demands a vision through the over all picture. The Truth is that silk is 7S35 per bolt as of writing this, whereas Mithril is 1S, Elder Planks 1S25 and cured thick leather squares an appallingly low 30C. All on Buyout, not order.

This simply means that supply/demand ratios for these materials are not equally distributed, or you’d see more of a 2-3 silver difference between these materials, not 6. High end difference for the things that can be farmed of course, since they’ll never be as expensive.

Mithril is the most abundant material in the entire game, and the most usless might I add. That is why is it so cheap (41c last I checked). There are more mithril nodes in the world of GW2 than anything else. Mithril doesn’t make much of anything uselful outside of getting to 400 in a craft. Iron ore is pretty abundant as well, but it goes for a little bit more on the TP because its useful in making ascended weapons. Price is determined on what these materials make, not just their availability. This is also why gossamer is cheaper than silk. 150 scraps a day is pretty good IMO. You’re doing better than me.

Again, let me go back to the example of Ectoplasm. I’ve been playing for a year now. My magic find is in the 150% range. Even with a basic salvage kit you can pull ectos from rares. it may take a few days to get to 100, but ecto isn’t rare by any means. Hit a few world bosses a day and you’re guaranteed a nice little batch… It goes for 33 silver on the TP… that is ridiculous for something that can be gains so easily. It is the price of convenience.

It’s an MMO, if you play casually, you’re gonna get casual stuff. Its as simple as that. Is it really that cruel? If everyone was running around with legendary weapons and ascended armor i’d imagine the game’s appeal would have died down a lot more quickly.

You’re right, it can’t be viewed through a single play style. I was accused of being “grindy” and that is simply not the case. If someone only puts 2-3 hours a day into GW2, then they aren’t going to get a lot of silk, much less have enough funds to buy enough. That’s just the reality of things no matter what successful MMO you play.

most MMOs dont require 2-3 hours a day for a month to get max stat items. maybe 4-5 hours a week.

dietzero.3514:

pdavis.8031:

Astralporing.1957:

pdavis.8031:

I can farm more silk than I can the other mats fairly easily and without much effort.

There is no way you can farm silk more easily than you could farm mithril or elder wood. If you can, please, do share your miracle source.

Silverwastes. Its not hard to get an prganized map, or to start one. Do the events, get lots of loot and bags. Then go do the Hidden depths. In an average run I can get about 20 heirloom seed pouches which contain 0-3 scraps of silk. And around 25-30 bags of gear. Salvage all the cloth. I get about 80-100 scraps per run. Do it again and profit. Doing this I get more silk faster than I can doing say a platinum mining run or an elder wood logging run.

That is much slower than mining and logging.

In a strict Sense yes. But subjectively, its faster. Running from node to node can be tedious at best. Doing all the events, the breach, vinewrath and the Hidden depths Is a whole lot more fun than mining nodes.

phys.7689:

Aberrant.6749:

The price of scraps has been higher in the past. It’s at about the same price as it was July 9th 2014. Seems like a normal fluctuation to me.

As far as why it takes so many more scraps idk, I didn’t agree with it back when they changed it, but I remember reading that it wasn’t a mistake. I don’t see why it should change now that so many have invested the time and resources to make cloth armor.

The drop rates on cloth do increase with various events (wintersday gave them out from the dusty clothes for example). Too expensive for you right now? Just wait and see what the next event brings and save your gold. The stat difference between exotic and ascended armor is very small anyways.

im starting to realize, that most of the people disagreeing with fixing silk/ascended, are basically just trying to protect their current racket.

Current racket? I’m making damask ascended armor for my mes right now and preparing what I need for a revenant. I’m paying these prices as well.

People are asking for the amount of silk available to be increased (the most fair way to everyone to lower the price of cloth) and I point out that it has been in the past temporarily, hence the price drop in cloth during wintersday. I suggested how a player could wait for this to happen again with the next LS events and thus not pay higher prices. That would be bad for me if I was trying to just keep prices higher and make gold for myself. It just makes no logical sense.

Seems more like you’ve already made up your mind about what you want and won’t listen to anyone else and just toss aside what they have to say by trying to attack their character instead of the argument itself.

pdavis.8031:

dietzero.3514:

pdavis.8031:

Astralporing.1957:

pdavis.8031:

I can farm more silk than I can the other mats fairly easily and without much effort.

There is no way you can farm silk more easily than you could farm mithril or elder wood. If you can, please, do share your miracle source.

Silverwastes. Its not hard to get an prganized map, or to start one. Do the events, get lots of loot and bags. Then go do the Hidden depths. In an average run I can get about 20 heirloom seed pouches which contain 0-3 scraps of silk. And around 25-30 bags of gear. Salvage all the cloth. I get about 80-100 scraps per run. Do it again and profit. Doing this I get more silk faster than I can doing say a platinum mining run or an elder wood logging run.

That is much slower than mining and logging.

In a strict Sense yes. But subjectively, its faster. Running from node to node can be tedious at best. Doing all the events, the breach, vinewrath and the Hidden depths Is a whole lot more fun than mining nodes.

Yes, but it is still slower AND when you do Silverwastes you mine and chop anyway. You get more mithril and elder logs than silk…

Btw, Silverwastes is where I hang out as well.

Rigged.1395:

I keep seeing people give this type of suggestions, so I’m gonna try to give a short explanation of why this is such a bad idea.

Let’s say the devs give in and let you have what you want. They cap the price of silk scraps at (let’s say) 2s.
(and here goes explanation of why a bad idea is bad)

Good. You have explained why that one solution wouldn’t work. Except you are fighting with windmills, because noone asked for this solution to be implemented – it was a complete strawman.

What people are asking is for anet to either decrease demand (by lowering requirements for silk in damask) or increase supply (by introducing cloth nodes, or other reliable sources of cloth farming)

pdavis.8031:

Astralporing.1957:

pdavis.8031:

I can farm more silk than I can the other mats fairly easily and without much effort.

There is no way you can farm silk more easily than you could farm mithril or elder wood. If you can, please, do share your miracle source.

Silverwastes. Its not hard to get an prganized map, or to start one. Do the events, get lots of loot and bags. Then go do the Hidden depths. In an average run I can get about 20 heirloom seed pouches which contain 0-3 scraps of silk. And around 25-30 bags of gear. Salvage all the cloth. I get about 80-100 scraps per run. Do it again and profit. Doing this I get more silk faster than I can doing say a platinum mining run or an elder wood logging run.

I thought you might mean Silverwastes. Sorry, i can do elder wood harvesting faster. And another fun fact – when I am doing silverwastes, i still get more mithril than silk (harvesting and salvaging), with significant number of elder wood on top. And that’s ore to scraps, so ingot to bolts ratio is even worse for silk.

Obtena.7952:

insanemaniac.2456:

Obtena.7952:

I would be interested in finding out how to only need 30 seconds to acquire Laurels a day at no cost. I must be missing something. That’s not sarcasm, I just don’t know how it would be done.

log in…

Yes and? From what I can tell, I did not receive a laurel for logging in. I’m sure I had 59 yesterday … I still have 59. I’m going to check if I will have 59 tomorrow when I log in too.

and? and nothing…? you get login rewards every day in a set and predictable rotation and laurels are in the rotation. it seems like youre just being obtuse.

maybe you should look at the giant in-your-face advent calendar looking thing instead of clicking past it some time :/

Astralporing.1957:

What people are asking is for anet to either decrease demand (by lowering requirements for silk in damask) or increase supply (by introducing cloth nodes, or other reliable sources of cloth farming)

Why do you prefer permanent nodes for silk compared to indirect drops or added temporary supply (for example through wintersday?

I think the way Anet increased supply of silk in season 2 was very good because it gave them the chance to pull the plug on some faucets, once supply gets too high.

I know that some people argue that silk is still too expensive but i guess those people that rather sell their silk than use it might be of the opinion that it has decreased long enough.

If they introduce permanent nodes, the chance of everybody getting his 300 scraps per day on his own, is very high. What do expect Anet to do then, once silk hits vendor value again?
And what do you think will happen to the supply of wool, cotton and linen, if silk is not an obstacle anymore to craft your daily damask?

Wanze.8410:

Why do you prefer permanent nodes for silk compared to indirect drops or added temporary supply (for example through wintersday?

We’ve replied to this question many times already, but you somehow seem to want to ignore our response.

So here it is once more. With a farmable source of cloth, the prices of the scraps (and derivatives) would naturally fluctuate to a point where some people start skipping the nodes because they don’t feel it’s worth their time to harvest them. Just like with metal and wood.

Silk getting more expensive → More people harvesting → Silk getting less expensive → Less people harvesting. Repeat ad infinitum.

Tom Gore.4035:

Wanze.8410:

Why do you prefer permanent nodes for silk compared to indirect drops or added temporary supply (for example through wintersday?

We’ve replied to this question many times already, but you somehow seem to want to ignore our response.

So here it is once more. With a farmable source of cloth, the prices of the scraps (and derivatives) would naturally fluctuate to a point where some people start skipping the nodes because they don’t feel it’s worth their time to harvest them. Just like with metal and wood.

Silk getting more expensive -> More people harvesting -> Silk getting less expensive -> Less people harvesting. Repeat ad infinitum.

but it has been said many times before that just farming sw or other content that includes alot of mob kills will also increase your silk drops, so why not do that?

And what happens, once the demand for silk is saturated but people still get lots of silk from indirect drops, like leather? exactly, its price will keep falling until vendor value and we are at square one again.

Wanze.8410:

Tom Gore.4035:

Wanze.8410:

Why do you prefer permanent nodes for silk compared to indirect drops or added temporary supply (for example through wintersday?

We’ve replied to this question many times already, but you somehow seem to want to ignore our response.

So here it is once more. With a farmable source of cloth, the prices of the scraps (and derivatives) would naturally fluctuate to a point where some people start skipping the nodes because they don’t feel it’s worth their time to harvest them. Just like with metal and wood.

Silk getting more expensive -> More people harvesting -> Silk getting less expensive -> Less people harvesting. Repeat ad infinitum.

but it has been said many times before that just farming sw or other content that includes alot of mob kills will also increase your silk drops, so why not do that?

And what happens, once the demand for silk is saturated but people still get lots of silk from indirect drops, like leather? exactly, its price will keep falling until vendor value and we are at square one again.

That’s why we also suggested the random drops would be reduced at the same time, or did you ignore that, too?

mtpelion.4562:

tfcgeneralkmk.9508:

sorry if this is an obvious thing but what is this faucet you talk (only thing i can think of being possible is salvaging, but that requires a specific type of armor drops or rag salvage mats which can produce things other than silk also

Bags. Every type of bag drops cloth and leather at a very high rate. Almost no bag drops ore or logs.

thanks i must be unlucky most bags i open seem to contain mats used for insignias with rarely silk but it could just be a dry spell

phys.7689:

im starting to realize, that most of the people disagreeing with fixing silk/ascended, are basically just trying to protect their current racket.

No man, I’m against it because it will invalidate all the effort I have put into getting ascended gear for all my weight classes. I also don’t want the rest of the players who have put in that effort to feel burned either. Phys, you are not taking into account the silent/vocal backlash Anet would get for making silk changes from people who have already finished or are most of the way through the ascended grind.

edit:

Aberrant.6749:

Seems more like you’ve already made up your mind about what you want and won’t listen to anyone else and just toss aside what they have to say by trying to attack their character instead of the argument itself.

well said.

Wanze.8410:

Astralporing.1957:

What people are asking is for anet to either decrease demand (by lowering requirements for silk in damask) or increase supply (by introducing cloth nodes, or other reliable sources of cloth farming)

Why do you prefer permanent nodes for silk compared to indirect drops or added temporary supply (for example through wintersday?

I already answered – reliabiliy. With indirect drops i need to farm for hours to get any more consistent results, and if i need a specific number of materials, i never know how much i will need to farm. With nodes i would.

And temporary supply is temporary. It requires me farming cloth when it’s there, not when i need it.

(yes, as you can see i prefer farming mats for my own use to farming gold in order to buy from you).

tfcgeneralkmk.9508:

thanks i must be unlucky most bags i open seem to contain mats used for insignias with rarely silk but it could just be a dry spell

Heavy Moldy Bags have a really large drop table (straddling T5 and T6). If you want silk, target bags that start with “Large” (like Large Moldy Bags, Large Ritual Bags, etc.).

This means hitting Malchor’s Leap or Straits of Devastation for Moldy bags, rather than Cursed Shores where you are getting Heavy Moldy Bags.

eithinan.9841:

phys.7689:

im starting to realize, that most of the people disagreeing with fixing silk/ascended, are basically just trying to protect their current racket.

No man, I’m against it because it will invalidate all the effort I have put into getting ascended gear for all my weight classes. I also don’t want the rest of the players who have put in that effort to feel burned either. Phys, you are not taking into account the silent/vocal backlash Anet would get for making silk changes from people who have already finished or are most of the way through the ascended grind.

While there are definitely some here, that do have vested interest in silk going higher, it doesn’t mean everyone adverse here does as well.

The same can also be said for those already paid into the current system. Not all who have already made such armors would be against a change where silk is not elevated.

eithinan.9841:

No man, I’m against it because it will invalidate all the effort I have put into getting ascended gear for all my weight classes. I also don’t want the rest of the players who have put in that effort to feel burned either.

I have put in that effort already. And i am more concerned about those that are yet to do it than about insisting everyone else should suffer as well. I certainly wouldn’t feel burned, and i am sure i am not alone here.

eithinan.9841:

phys.7689:

im starting to realize, that most of the people disagreeing with fixing silk/ascended, are basically just trying to protect their current racket.

No man, I’m against it because it will invalidate all the effort I have put into getting ascended gear for all my weight classes. I also don’t want the rest of the players who have put in that effort to feel burned either. Phys, you are not taking into account the silent/vocal backlash Anet would get for making silk changes from people who have already finished or are most of the way through the ascended grind.

edit:

Aberrant.6749:

Seems more like you’ve already made up your mind about what you want and won’t listen to anyone else and just toss aside what they have to say by trying to attack their character instead of the argument itself.

well said.

The same backlash we see from legendary-owners, now that precursor-crafting is anounced for HoT?
I’ve already crafted an ascended light armor.
I wouldn’t mind a change in the current system that equalizes the effort you put into ascended armors. Personally I really don’t care if it means that medium and heavy will require more effort, light armor require less or all armor-classes meet in the middle.

mtpelion.4562:

tfcgeneralkmk.9508:

thanks i must be unlucky most bags i open seem to contain mats used for insignias with rarely silk but it could just be a dry spell

Heavy Moldy Bags have a really large drop table (straddling T5 and T6). If you want silk, target bags that start with “Large” (like Large Moldy Bags, Large Ritual Bags, etc.).

This means hitting Malchor’s Leap or Straits of Devastation for Moldy bags, rather than Cursed Shores where you are getting Heavy Moldy Bags.

thanks again i even looked up where to farm must have been old or something

Tom Gore.4035:

Wanze.8410:

Tom Gore.4035:

Wanze.8410:

Why do you prefer permanent nodes for silk compared to indirect drops or added temporary supply (for example through wintersday?

We’ve replied to this question many times already, but you somehow seem to want to ignore our response.

So here it is once more. With a farmable source of cloth, the prices of the scraps (and derivatives) would naturally fluctuate to a point where some people start skipping the nodes because they don’t feel it’s worth their time to harvest them. Just like with metal and wood.

Silk getting more expensive -> More people harvesting -> Silk getting less expensive -> Less people harvesting. Repeat ad infinitum.

but it has been said many times before that just farming sw or other content that includes alot of mob kills will also increase your silk drops, so why not do that?

And what happens, once the demand for silk is saturated but people still get lots of silk from indirect drops, like leather? exactly, its price will keep falling until vendor value and we are at square one again.

That’s why we also suggested the random drops would be reduced at the same time, or did you ignore that, too?

In other words, the same system as it is now. Keep in mind that silk doesnt directly randomly drop either. That means your options are to have anet nerf the salvage results (idiotic in the extreme) of light armor, which is likely the singular effective source of silk, or nerf the odds of silk out of loot bags (just as stupid).

Frankly people need to stop offering non-existing solutions and figure out if there’s even a problem in the first place. So far, this is what I see; “I cant farm enough silk in a day, so I cant craft enough bolts of silk, so I need to buy silk scraps/bolts, so I can craft bolts of damask.”

That seems like it’s a personal problem right now. Why cant you farm enough silk? Why do you have an issue buying part of the silk? Wouldnt it be easier to run some dungeons so you dont need to farm (all/part of) the silk? If you’re that impatient for bolts of damask, why not buy it (unless you’re complaining you cant craft them fast enough to sell)?