Guild Wars 2

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

champ.7021:

I find it more annoying that if i do a fair amount of dungeons and a fractal or two in a day i can manage to get enough leather, wood, and mithril to craft the time gated mats. Maybe not the entire amount but factoring in the cost of those mats from the tp, enough that it doesnt really take away from my gold. Silk on the other hand ill end up with at max 40 bolts of silk, and thats if im lucky, often times i get 30 or so. Buying the other 50-70 is like another 4-5g on top. The mats are already time gated putting a pressure on the player to make sure to craft it every day…yet you cant manage to get enough mats to craft it every day. The whole experience just feels backwards. I think they should both put the amount of silk needed to 50 and make it drop more from salvaging since we cant get it from nodes. I dont mind having to purchase the mats from the tp to craft it every day, but i shouldnt have to spend as much as i do each time, and i should feel like the silk i get from playing the game is actually worthwhile.

I guess, if Anet puts bolt of damask on a 3-day cooldown, you shouldnt have a problem anymore.

that would be incredibly unbalanced with respect to other materials aquisition. I know you arent really serious, but you cant come up with solutions that ignore all their other interactions and have a good answer.
In math terms this would be solving a system of equations.

essentially you need to get an answer that solves ALL of the issues, not just one or two. The current design of silk within ascended has many flaws.

Youre right, i wasnt serious. But I also havent seen a single solution pointed out here that would remedy everything and wouldnt inflict other problems.

But I do know that Anet rebalanced cloth output in general since season 2 started, which resulted in lower costs for silk and bolt of damask. Damask went from 17g to 13g (over 20%) and bolt of silk went from 11.5s to 5.75s (50%) in about 3 months.
So their macro-economic solution seems to work just fine.

Just because people complain that they cant farm 300 scraps of silk per day doesnt mean that the amount is unreasonable because you still have to consider the supply that comes in from people that have no use for it. If everybody could farm his daily needs in a timely manner, it will result in oversupply pretty quick (see leather).

…or see Deldrimor Steel Ingots, or see Spiritwood Planks or see any other ascended material that we can craft. Basically every other full ascended material balanced out at 2-4g. Damask at 14g.

It’s the highest in demand, since every armor-crafter needs it for insignias and inner layer. It’s the one with the highest material-requirements for their pre-mat.
Together with leather cloth is the only material you can’t get from nodes, but as you stated yourself: Leather is oversupplied.

You mention 300 silkscraps don’t have to be unreasonable, considering supply from other people. That argument applies to every other material on the market and look at their requirements for ascended crafting and their respective prices. Your argument even befits leather, the most oversupplied of the four material-groups for ascended crafting.
Not even deldrimor steel and spiritwood, required for every ascended weapon. comes close in price.

This is not just a matter of the economy or the supply/demand-situation on the market, since it’s a game, it’s also a matter of balance.
Ascended armor is the highest tier we got, it should be costly, it should take a considerable amount of time and resources, but it shouldn’t be gated by one material.
A material that different professions need in different quantities.

Will silk ever drop in price? No, not with the current implementation of ascended crafting.

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

champ.7021:

I find it more annoying that if i do a fair amount of dungeons and a fractal or two in a day i can manage to get enough leather, wood, and mithril to craft the time gated mats. Maybe not the entire amount but factoring in the cost of those mats from the tp, enough that it doesnt really take away from my gold. Silk on the other hand ill end up with at max 40 bolts of silk, and thats if im lucky, often times i get 30 or so. Buying the other 50-70 is like another 4-5g on top. The mats are already time gated putting a pressure on the player to make sure to craft it every day…yet you cant manage to get enough mats to craft it every day. The whole experience just feels backwards. I think they should both put the amount of silk needed to 50 and make it drop more from salvaging since we cant get it from nodes. I dont mind having to purchase the mats from the tp to craft it every day, but i shouldnt have to spend as much as i do each time, and i should feel like the silk i get from playing the game is actually worthwhile.

I guess, if Anet puts bolt of damask on a 3-day cooldown, you shouldnt have a problem anymore.

that would be incredibly unbalanced with respect to other materials aquisition. I know you arent really serious, but you cant come up with solutions that ignore all their other interactions and have a good answer.
In math terms this would be solving a system of equations.

essentially you need to get an answer that solves ALL of the issues, not just one or two. The current design of silk within ascended has many flaws.

Youre right, i wasnt serious. But I also havent seen a single solution pointed out here that would remedy everything and wouldnt inflict other problems.

But I do know that Anet rebalanced cloth output in general since season 2 started, which resulted in lower costs for silk and bolt of damask. Damask went from 17g to 13g (over 20%) and bolt of silk went from 11.5s to 5.75s (50%) in about 3 months.
So their macro-economic solution seems to work just fine.

Just because people complain that they cant farm 300 scraps of silk per day doesnt mean that the amount is unreasonable because you still have to consider the supply that comes in from people that have no use for it. If everybody could farm his daily needs in a timely manner, it will result in oversupply pretty quick (see leather).

its unreasonable because it takes too much effort as compared to all the other materials.
weather you define that in gold, or in personal farming it still requires .5 gold versus 7.5 gold.

I wouldnt reccomend bring leather and metal up to silks cost

i would say the effort required for silk, is not in a good place, taking 2-3 hours of farm time, or .7-1.5 hours of gold grinding.
thats for the people who are doing either semi effeciently btw. People playing normally would have to dedicate even more time. AND thats just for one of the required mats.

The issue with silk mainly is that the best way to farm silk is to have a lower level character open bags. If you’re 80 and open like wvw bags you’re getting level 80 items that often times don’t salvage into a lower tier material like silk. So you’re best bet to farm is send bags to an alt in the level range for silk.

Cloth is notorious as being unreliable as an item to obtain. There isn’t any world nodes to farm other then a cloth rack in your home instance. With drops being dependent on player level primarily you can’t get lower tier gear so easy.

Silk was added to the ascended because frankly it was useless prior. It was dirt cheap not used and went for pennies. Now Silk is the single most expensive crafted item. It’s being complained about because it’s more expensive then tier 6, which we can easily get at 80.

Its a flawed system, but it’s not going to get fixed in itself. Personally I just would like a reliable way to farm or obtain it easier.

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

champ.7021:

I find it more annoying that if i do a fair amount of dungeons and a fractal or two in a day i can manage to get enough leather, wood, and mithril to craft the time gated mats. Maybe not the entire amount but factoring in the cost of those mats from the tp, enough that it doesnt really take away from my gold. Silk on the other hand ill end up with at max 40 bolts of silk, and thats if im lucky, often times i get 30 or so. Buying the other 50-70 is like another 4-5g on top. The mats are already time gated putting a pressure on the player to make sure to craft it every day…yet you cant manage to get enough mats to craft it every day. The whole experience just feels backwards. I think they should both put the amount of silk needed to 50 and make it drop more from salvaging since we cant get it from nodes. I dont mind having to purchase the mats from the tp to craft it every day, but i shouldnt have to spend as much as i do each time, and i should feel like the silk i get from playing the game is actually worthwhile.

I guess, if Anet puts bolt of damask on a 3-day cooldown, you shouldnt have a problem anymore.

that would be incredibly unbalanced with respect to other materials aquisition. I know you arent really serious, but you cant come up with solutions that ignore all their other interactions and have a good answer.
In math terms this would be solving a system of equations.

essentially you need to get an answer that solves ALL of the issues, not just one or two. The current design of silk within ascended has many flaws.

Youre right, i wasnt serious. But I also havent seen a single solution pointed out here that would remedy everything and wouldnt inflict other problems.

But I do know that Anet rebalanced cloth output in general since season 2 started, which resulted in lower costs for silk and bolt of damask. Damask went from 17g to 13g (over 20%) and bolt of silk went from 11.5s to 5.75s (50%) in about 3 months.
So their macro-economic solution seems to work just fine.

Just because people complain that they cant farm 300 scraps of silk per day doesnt mean that the amount is unreasonable because you still have to consider the supply that comes in from people that have no use for it. If everybody could farm his daily needs in a timely manner, it will result in oversupply pretty quick (see leather).

its unreasonable because it takes too much effort as compared to all the other materials.
weather you define that in gold, or in personal farming it still requires .5 gold versus 7.5 gold.

I wouldnt reccomend bring leather and metal up to silks cost

i would say the effort required for silk, is not in a good place, taking 2-3 hours of farm time, or .7-1.5 hours of gold grinding.
thats for the people who are doing either semi effeciently btw. People playing normally would have to dedicate even more time. AND thats just for one of the required mats.

If Anet wants to gate asc crafting its reasonable to rebalance the one mat that is required for all classes and not all individually.
And it wasnt introduced for casuals, so the argument that those cant get it on a daily basis doesnt have much weight.

And the status quo doesnt handicap any particular players, just certain classes.
If we just look at exotic gear, production costs for heavy armor outvalue light and medium but no one complains about that.

I, as a warrior, dont complain about the engineer because he has to craft 7 asc weapons less than me to get a full ascended weapon set.

Mister Stygian.2135:

3 months ago is when winter festival started and created a huge cloth influx, are you sure there actually an output increase in other areas? I don’t think there was and it will go back to price we saw in November over the next month.

Winters Day was the last big influx of cloth, thats right. But before that, there was the Halloween Lab, which dropped alot of silk, DT and SW also drop lots of silk. Then we got new permanent sources fro silk, for example the star of gratitude, gift of mawdrey and the gift tree in the home instance.

Look at the prices of lower leather, as well. One matches linen…

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

champ.7021:

I find it more annoying that if i do a fair amount of dungeons and a fractal or two in a day i can manage to get enough leather, wood, and mithril to craft the time gated mats. Maybe not the entire amount but factoring in the cost of those mats from the tp, enough that it doesnt really take away from my gold. Silk on the other hand ill end up with at max 40 bolts of silk, and thats if im lucky, often times i get 30 or so. Buying the other 50-70 is like another 4-5g on top. The mats are already time gated putting a pressure on the player to make sure to craft it every day…yet you cant manage to get enough mats to craft it every day. The whole experience just feels backwards. I think they should both put the amount of silk needed to 50 and make it drop more from salvaging since we cant get it from nodes. I dont mind having to purchase the mats from the tp to craft it every day, but i shouldnt have to spend as much as i do each time, and i should feel like the silk i get from playing the game is actually worthwhile.

I guess, if Anet puts bolt of damask on a 3-day cooldown, you shouldnt have a problem anymore.

that would be incredibly unbalanced with respect to other materials aquisition. I know you arent really serious, but you cant come up with solutions that ignore all their other interactions and have a good answer.
In math terms this would be solving a system of equations.

essentially you need to get an answer that solves ALL of the issues, not just one or two. The current design of silk within ascended has many flaws.

Youre right, i wasnt serious. But I also havent seen a single solution pointed out here that would remedy everything and wouldnt inflict other problems.

But I do know that Anet rebalanced cloth output in general since season 2 started, which resulted in lower costs for silk and bolt of damask. Damask went from 17g to 13g (over 20%) and bolt of silk went from 11.5s to 5.75s (50%) in about 3 months.
So their macro-economic solution seems to work just fine.

Just because people complain that they cant farm 300 scraps of silk per day doesnt mean that the amount is unreasonable because you still have to consider the supply that comes in from people that have no use for it. If everybody could farm his daily needs in a timely manner, it will result in oversupply pretty quick (see leather).

its unreasonable because it takes too much effort as compared to all the other materials.
weather you define that in gold, or in personal farming it still requires .5 gold versus 7.5 gold.

I wouldnt reccomend bring leather and metal up to silks cost

i would say the effort required for silk, is not in a good place, taking 2-3 hours of farm time, or .7-1.5 hours of gold grinding.
thats for the people who are doing either semi effeciently btw. People playing normally would have to dedicate even more time. AND thats just for one of the required mats.

If Anet wants to gate asc crafting its reasonable to rebalance the one mat that is required for all classes and not all individually.
And it wasnt introduced for casuals, so the argument that those cant get it on a daily basis doesnt have much weight.

And the status quo doesnt handicap any particular players, just certain classes.
If we just look at exotic gear, production costs for heavy armor outvalue light and medium but no one complains about that.

I, as a warrior, dont complain about the engineer because he has to craft 7 asc weapons less than me to get a full ascended weapon set.

Gating a tier with a unevenly required material isn’t reasonable in a game, nor is it required. You can balance over multiple factors, for example the ascension crystals, by adding additional obsidian shards, more Thermocatalytic Reagant…all needed for ascended crafting.
If you really think that it’s reasonable to gate it via armor-class-specific materials, why would you bring up that exotic heavy armor costs more than the other classes? Wouldn’t that be a given then?

Neither is this about casuals/non-casuals. No matter how much time you play a day, the difference in gathering the materials will still be there. Someone who just does his daily each day and has a longterm goal of light ascended armor will still need more time than someone who is just in for the dailies and wants to make a medium ascended armor.

You say you play a warrior. Is it your main-character? I’ll assume it is, since you aligned yourself personally with that class (“I, as a warrior,…”).
So tell me: How is the status quo not a handicap for everyone with a light-armor profession as his/her main-character?
You seem to have checked if heavy exotic is more expensive, so I guess you ran into a similar situation of being unhappy in that regard.

Why do T6 silk 5-6chepaer than T5 silk? and leather got no value at all?…,need to be enable to transmute mats stuff in MF so we have more balance with mats prices and some stuff just wont be waist of space.

tekfan.3179:

You say you play a warrior. Is it your main-character? I’ll assume it is, since you aligned yourself personally with that class (“I, as a warrior,…”).

So tell me: How is the status quo not a handicap for everyone with a light-armor profession as his/her main-character?

You seem to have checked if heavy exotic is more expensive, so I guess you ran into a similar situation of being unhappy in that regard.

Its not a handicap for the player with a light armor main because when he started the game, he had the same choices as me.

His ascended gear might be more expensive than mine, my exotic gear might be more expensive than his. I might have to craft 11 asc weapons for a full set, he might only have to craft 5 weapons. The sigils and runes for his metabuild in wvw might cost 4 times more than mine.

There are economic pros and cons for every class but it doesnt put individual players at a disadvantage because they are all available for everybody.

John Smith.4610:

phys.7689:

pdavis.8031:

phys.7689:

pdavis.8031:

Argon.1563:

Hm. What I find strange, is that John Smith posted on here, but only to comment on the validity of the thread, rather than the topic itself.

Is this an issue ArenaNet doesn’t care about, or is it just something they’re aware of, but don’t want to discuss right now?

It is something they are well aware of, and in fact John Smith said several times in various threads about the matter, that Silk was intentional and is working as intended. He also said in regards to player perception of a broken economy, that he doesn’t care. So from those type of statements that he already has made, one can reasonablly assume that in rergards to silk pricing is: that it is fine, its working like it should, and he doesn’t care about the misconception of silk being overpriced.

he said he doesnt care if players are unsatisfied with economy? really?

John Smith.4610:

LordByron.8369:

Question:
Do you care/will do something about the fact game economy is really perceived as broken?
Or if you instead think its well perceived, why don’t you look at every single thread that had the luck to remain for few hours in general section?

There were many threads about how important economy perception is in a videogame.

If by “really perceived” you mean that you mistakenly perceive a fantastic and functioning system as broken, then no… I don’t care.

i dont think this means he doesnt care if players are unsatisfied, merely that he doesnt care if that particular player thinks the economy is broken.

but i could be wrong, perhaps you are right, and he doesnt care.

That statement is taken out of context. Obviously I care about how the community feels about the economy, my activity on these forums should be proof of that. That individual I was speaking to was being intentionally antagonistic.

Then add me to the list of people who are unhappy with the current economy. :P

Wanze.8410:

tekfan.3179:

You say you play a warrior. Is it your main-character? I’ll assume it is, since you aligned yourself personally with that class (“I, as a warrior,…”).

So tell me: How is the status quo not a handicap for everyone with a light-armor profession as his/her main-character?

You seem to have checked if heavy exotic is more expensive, so I guess you ran into a similar situation of being unhappy in that regard.

Its not a handicap for the player with a light armor main because when he started the game, he had the same choices as me.

His ascended gear might be more expensive than mine, my exotic gear might be more expensive than his. I might have to craft 11 asc weapons for a full set, he might only have to craft 5 weapons. The sigils and runes for his metabuild in wvw might cost 4 times more than mine.

There are economic pros and cons for every class but it doesnt put individual players at a disadvantage because they are all available for everybody.

I think its unfair that staff ele’s only need to make 1 weapon while my other classes need to make more, 3-4 in some cases. This is unbalanced and unfair. I think for a staff ele to work they need to slot 2 of the same weapon…..

#sarcasm

eithinan.9841:

Wanze.8410:

tekfan.3179:

You say you play a warrior. Is it your main-character? I’ll assume it is, since you aligned yourself personally with that class (“I, as a warrior,…”).

So tell me: How is the status quo not a handicap for everyone with a light-armor profession as his/her main-character?

You seem to have checked if heavy exotic is more expensive, so I guess you ran into a similar situation of being unhappy in that regard.

Its not a handicap for the player with a light armor main because when he started the game, he had the same choices as me.

His ascended gear might be more expensive than mine, my exotic gear might be more expensive than his. I might have to craft 11 asc weapons for a full set, he might only have to craft 5 weapons. The sigils and runes for his metabuild in wvw might cost 4 times more than mine.

There are economic pros and cons for every class but it doesnt put individual players at a disadvantage because they are all available for everybody.

I think its unfair that staff ele’s only need to make 1 weapon while my other classes need to make more, 3-4 in some cases. This is unbalanced and unfair. I think for a staff ele to work they need to slot 2 of the same weapon…..

#sarcasm

even if you believe that is a lack of balance (which you dont seem, to) a lack of balance in one facet is not solved by making something else screwed up. Ever heard two wrongs dont make a right?

and as a side note, i would love to be able to get more actual skill choices. if the price for 5 new skills is one weapon of any rarity, i would pay that price.

phys.7689:

eithinan.9841:

Wanze.8410:

tekfan.3179:

You say you play a warrior. Is it your main-character? I’ll assume it is, since you aligned yourself personally with that class (“I, as a warrior,…”).

So tell me: How is the status quo not a handicap for everyone with a light-armor profession as his/her main-character?

You seem to have checked if heavy exotic is more expensive, so I guess you ran into a similar situation of being unhappy in that regard.

Its not a handicap for the player with a light armor main because when he started the game, he had the same choices as me.

His ascended gear might be more expensive than mine, my exotic gear might be more expensive than his. I might have to craft 11 asc weapons for a full set, he might only have to craft 5 weapons. The sigils and runes for his metabuild in wvw might cost 4 times more than mine.

There are economic pros and cons for every class but it doesnt put individual players at a disadvantage because they are all available for everybody.

I think its unfair that staff ele’s only need to make 1 weapon while my other classes need to make more, 3-4 in some cases. This is unbalanced and unfair. I think for a staff ele to work they need to slot 2 of the same weapon…..

#sarcasm

even if you believe that is a lack of balance (which you dont seem, to) a lack of balance in one facet is not solved by making something else screwed up. Ever heard two wrongs dont make a right?

and as a side note, i would love to be able to get more actual skill choices. if the price for 5 new skills is one weapon of any rarity, i would pay that price.

You’ve missed the point: Inbalance and unfairness isn’t a reason to fix inbalances or unfair things. The strengths and deficiencies define the professions. The ‘fix’ is to play the professions that don’t have those inbalances if they bother players that much.

You might not see it but if silk was adjusted to appease light armor users issue with cost, this would affect a subset of players negatively as well. That’s not fair either. Fairness, balance .. these things are fairy tales in games that have variations for gear, professions, …. anything that is a non-trivial choice and the more of those choices, the more unbalanced/unfair things get.

Obtena.7952:

phys.7689:

eithinan.9841:

Wanze.8410:

tekfan.3179:

You say you play a warrior. Is it your main-character? I’ll assume it is, since you aligned yourself personally with that class (“I, as a warrior,…”).

So tell me: How is the status quo not a handicap for everyone with a light-armor profession as his/her main-character?

You seem to have checked if heavy exotic is more expensive, so I guess you ran into a similar situation of being unhappy in that regard.

Its not a handicap for the player with a light armor main because when he started the game, he had the same choices as me.

His ascended gear might be more expensive than mine, my exotic gear might be more expensive than his. I might have to craft 11 asc weapons for a full set, he might only have to craft 5 weapons. The sigils and runes for his metabuild in wvw might cost 4 times more than mine.

There are economic pros and cons for every class but it doesnt put individual players at a disadvantage because they are all available for everybody.

I think its unfair that staff ele’s only need to make 1 weapon while my other classes need to make more, 3-4 in some cases. This is unbalanced and unfair. I think for a staff ele to work they need to slot 2 of the same weapon…..

#sarcasm

even if you believe that is a lack of balance (which you dont seem, to) a lack of balance in one facet is not solved by making something else screwed up. Ever heard two wrongs dont make a right?

and as a side note, i would love to be able to get more actual skill choices. if the price for 5 new skills is one weapon of any rarity, i would pay that price.

You’ve missed the point: Inbalance and unfairness isn’t a reason to fix inbalances or unfair things. The strengths and deficiencies define the professions. The ‘fix’ is to play the professions that don’t have those inbalances if they bother players that much.

You might not see it but if silk was adjusted to appease light armor users issue with cost, this would affect a subset of players negatively as well. That’s not fair either. Fairness, balance .. these things are fairy tales in games that have variations for gear, professions, …. CHOICES.

Your overall reasoning is, thats the way it is, so thats the way it should be. Its a very bad design philosophy, especially when the designers job is to make it the way it is, or change the way it is/ make sure that the way it is, is the best path.

using that philosophy would lead to a giant circle of achieving nothing.

That’s just your narrow-minded spin on it. My reasoning is that someone at Anet didn’t just implement this without thinking about its impact to the ingame. Even if they did, then JS kicks in with his role as the economic guru, who has already responded to these concerns multiple times. There is a process in place; players seem to think it’s complaining on the forums then Anet changes stuff. It’s not. In fact, we know Anet has a process for this because they have changed things to affect markets in the past. There is a reason they don’t do it with silk to appease light armor users.

In essence, players are simply ignoring the message that Anet is giving them because they don’t like it. This has nothing to do with sitting back and not complaining about things as a player. It does have alot to do with players not understanding or accepting Anet’s decisions.

Obtena.7952:

That’s just your narrow-minded spin on it. My reasoning is that someone at Anet didn’t just implement this without thinking about its impact to the ingame. Even if they did, then JS kicks in with his role as the economic guru, who has already responded to these concerns multiple times. There is a process in place; players seem to think it’s complaining on the forums then Anet changes stuff. It’s not. In fact, we know Anet has a process for this because they have changed things to affect markets in the past. There is a reason they don’t do it with silk to appease light armor users.

In essence, players are simply ignoring the message that Anet is giving them because they don’t like it. This has nothing to do with sitting back and not complaining about things as a player. It does have alot to do with players not understanding or accepting Ante’s decisions.

1) anet is not infallible so a customer questioning actions or decisions that negatively impact the game for them is appropriate.

2) Anet has reversed course on previously made design decisions fairly frequently since launch. In almost every case it has been after customers expressed dissatisfaction with the design decision.

3) (this is not directed at you personally Obtena) Working as designed does not mean that something is not broken. Designs are often broken leading to a broken end product even if that product performs exactly as designed. This is an inevitable result of having human designers. The key is to not demonize designers for imperfect or broken designs, but to ask for them to be improved.

Ashen.2907:

1) anet is not infallible so a customer questioning actions or decisions that negatively impact the game for them is appropriate.

2) Anet has reversed course on previously made design decisions fairly frequently since launch. In almost every case it has been after customers expressed dissatisfaction with the design decision.

Sure, but you don’t get it … it’s already been questioned, it’s already been answered. Of course they can reverse something but we already know the process here isn’t “If we QQ enough, Anet changes it”. In fact, that’s rarely how Devs work.

John Smith.4610:

phys.7689:

pdavis.8031:

phys.7689:

pdavis.8031:

Argon.1563:

Hm. What I find strange, is that John Smith posted on here, but only to comment on the validity of the thread, rather than the topic itself.

Is this an issue ArenaNet doesn’t care about, or is it just something they’re aware of, but don’t want to discuss right now?

It is something they are well aware of, and in fact John Smith said several times in various threads about the matter, that Silk was intentional and is working as intended. He also said in regards to player perception of a broken economy, that he doesn’t care. So from those type of statements that he already has made, one can reasonablly assume that in rergards to silk pricing is: that it is fine, its working like it should, and he doesn’t care about the misconception of silk being overpriced.

he said he doesnt care if players are unsatisfied with economy? really?

John Smith.4610:

LordByron.8369:

Question:
Do you care/will do something about the fact game economy is really perceived as broken?
Or if you instead think its well perceived, why don’t you look at every single thread that had the luck to remain for few hours in general section?

There were many threads about how important economy perception is in a videogame.

If by “really perceived” you mean that you mistakenly perceive a fantastic and functioning system as broken, then no… I don’t care.

i dont think this means he doesnt care if players are unsatisfied, merely that he doesnt care if that particular player thinks the economy is broken.

but i could be wrong, perhaps you are right, and he doesnt care.

That statement is taken out of context. Obviously I care about how the community feels about the economy, my activity on these forums should be proof of that. That individual I was speaking to was being intentionally antagonistic.

John can we please get some clarification as to why it takes double the amount of Silk Bolts for ascended materials as everything else?

Obtena.7952:

Ashen.2907:

1) anet is not infallible so a customer questioning actions or decisions that negatively impact the game for them is appropriate.

2) Anet has reversed course on previously made design decisions fairly frequently since launch. In almost every case it has been after customers expressed dissatisfaction with the design decision.

Sure, but you don’t get it … it’s already been questioned, it’s already been answered. Of course they can reverse something but we already know the process here isn’t “If we QQ enough, Anet changes it”. In fact, that’s rarely how Devs work.

Actually I do get, "it. You see, “if we QQ enough, Anet changes it,” is exactly how things have worked here in the past. Not every time, but often enough for it to be seen as an effective approach. In the past things have been questioned, Anet answered, those things continued to be be questioned….and Anet changed them.

Obtena.7952:

Ashen.2907:

1) anet is not infallible so a customer questioning actions or decisions that negatively impact the game for them is appropriate.

2) Anet has reversed course on previously made design decisions fairly frequently since launch. In almost every case it has been after customers expressed dissatisfaction with the design decision.

Sure, but you don’t get it … it’s already been questioned, it’s already been answered. Of course they can reverse something but we already know the process here isn’t “If we QQ enough, Anet changes it”. In fact, that’s rarely how Devs work.

there has been numerous occaisions where if the users did not question something, it would never have been fixed.
there are numerous occaisons where something has been improved or changed.

And heres the thing you dont realize, even if devs know or accept that they have a problem, they still have to make the descion on how to fix, and when to fix, and wether the cost makes it worthwhile to fix.

so, yeah they actually need people to QQ so they can not only identify things that arent working for the customers, they also need QQ so they can prioritize what/when to fix things.

QQ is actually not bad at all. Its annoying sure, but its pretty useful. QQ in an iterative system is essential.

phys.7689:

And heres the thing you dont realize, even if devs know or accept that they have a problem, they still have to make the descion on how to fix, and when to fix, and wether the cost makes it worthwhile to fix.

so, yeah they actually need people to QQ so they can not only identify things that arent working for the customers, they also need QQ so they can prioritize what/when to fix things.

QQ is actually not bad at all. Its annoying sure, but its pretty useful. QQ in an iterative system is essential.

How do I not get this? I get this perfectly well. It’s probably some of the reason things won’t get fixed even if they are issues; ROI is low, stuff gets put to the bottom of the priority. I’m one of vocal minority on these forums that recognize how limited resources affect Anet’s ability or willingness to change things in the game.

I’m not saying people shouldn’t complain, I’m saying that they should stop if Anet responds to it, repeatedly at that.

phys.7689:

Obtena.7952:

Ashen.2907:

1) anet is not infallible so a customer questioning actions or decisions that negatively impact the game for them is appropriate.

2) Anet has reversed course on previously made design decisions fairly frequently since launch. In almost every case it has been after customers expressed dissatisfaction with the design decision.

Sure, but you don’t get it … it’s already been questioned, it’s already been answered. Of course they can reverse something but we already know the process here isn’t “If we QQ enough, Anet changes it”. In fact, that’s rarely how Devs work.

there has been numerous occaisions where if the users did not question something, it would never have been fixed.
there are numerous occaisons where something has been improved or changed.

And heres the thing you dont realize, even if devs know or accept that they have a problem, they still have to make the descion on how to fix, and when to fix, and wether the cost makes it worthwhile to fix.

so, yeah they actually need people to QQ so they can not only identify things that arent working for the customers, they also need QQ so they can prioritize what/when to fix things.

QQ is actually not bad at all. Its annoying sure, but its pretty useful. QQ in an iterative system is essential.

But Anet fixed the silk price in the last couple of months already.

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

Obtena.7952:

Ashen.2907:

1) anet is not infallible so a customer questioning actions or decisions that negatively impact the game for them is appropriate.

2) Anet has reversed course on previously made design decisions fairly frequently since launch. In almost every case it has been after customers expressed dissatisfaction with the design decision.

Sure, but you don’t get it … it’s already been questioned, it’s already been answered. Of course they can reverse something but we already know the process here isn’t “If we QQ enough, Anet changes it”. In fact, that’s rarely how Devs work.

there has been numerous occaisions where if the users did not question something, it would never have been fixed.
there are numerous occaisons where something has been improved or changed.

And heres the thing you dont realize, even if devs know or accept that they have a problem, they still have to make the descion on how to fix, and when to fix, and wether the cost makes it worthwhile to fix.

so, yeah they actually need people to QQ so they can not only identify things that arent working for the customers, they also need QQ so they can prioritize what/when to fix things.

QQ is actually not bad at all. Its annoying sure, but its pretty useful. QQ in an iterative system is essential.

But Anet fixed the silk price in the last couple of months already.

Fix is a strong word
they did something to ease the situation temporarily
the problems are still there, and the thing they did didnt remove the issue, it just made it more bearable to deal with.

now, the effects of that thing are wearing off, and the problem is becoming less bearable again.
Why not cure the disease rather then lessen the symptoms?

Is silk/damask a chronic illness for which there is no cure?

Wanze.8410:

tekfan.3179:

You say you play a warrior. Is it your main-character? I’ll assume it is, since you aligned yourself personally with that class (“I, as a warrior,…”).

So tell me: How is the status quo not a handicap for everyone with a light-armor profession as his/her main-character?

You seem to have checked if heavy exotic is more expensive, so I guess you ran into a similar situation of being unhappy in that regard.

Its not a handicap for the player with a light armor main because when he started the game, he had the same choices as me.

… so you are saying it is not a handicap for him, because he could simply chose to not play light armor class? Because that actually confirms, that in that regard not playing those professions is a better option.

Aetheldrake.6395:

supply and demand

if making ascended was easy, everyone would be super strong, therefore nobody would be strong, besides, you should be happy only a few things are expensive for high quality stuff lol, would you rather they just up the price of EVERYTHING, or would you rather just have 1 part expensive

More like forced inflation combined with false resource scarcity due to funds coming in from outside of the economy via the gem to gold conversion based on the new excitement over the expansion.

Astralporing.1957:

Wanze.8410:

tekfan.3179:

You say you play a warrior. Is it your main-character? I’ll assume it is, since you aligned yourself personally with that class (“I, as a warrior,…”).

So tell me: How is the status quo not a handicap for everyone with a light-armor profession as his/her main-character?

You seem to have checked if heavy exotic is more expensive, so I guess you ran into a similar situation of being unhappy in that regard.

Its not a handicap for the player with a light armor main because when he started the game, he had the same choices as me.

… so you are saying it is not a handicap for him, because he could simply chose to not play light armor class? Because that actually confirms, that in that regard not playing those professions is a better option.

No, it’s just confirms that the deficiencies of other classes are more tolerable to some players. Choices. Trade offs.

Obtena.7952:

Astralporing.1957:

Wanze.8410:

tekfan.3179:

You say you play a warrior. Is it your main-character? I’ll assume it is, since you aligned yourself personally with that class (“I, as a warrior,…”).

So tell me: How is the status quo not a handicap for everyone with a light-armor profession as his/her main-character?

You seem to have checked if heavy exotic is more expensive, so I guess you ran into a similar situation of being unhappy in that regard.

Its not a handicap for the player with a light armor main because when he started the game, he had the same choices as me.

… so you are saying it is not a handicap for him, because he could simply chose to not play light armor class? Because that actually confirms, that in that regard not playing those professions is a better option.

No, it’s just confirms that the deficiencies of other classes are more tolerable to some players. Choices. Trade offs.

so you think, its good to design a system where different proffesions have to grind different amounts for the same power level?

You believe that Cloth classes, were designed to have to work harder to get gear,

ok
So what are they trading for a more difficult progression? What is the benefit that they gain for in exchange for the extra effort?

Balance doesn’t matter cause you know…..choices

We made a game where everyone dominantly plays one class b/c it’s better than the rest, but that’s okay b/c….choices. They don’t have to play underpowered classes. They have the choice to play an underpowered class and the trade off is variety. We think that’s fine besides everyone has different tastes.

Makes sense to me………..

phys.7689:

So what are they trading for a more difficult progression? What is the benefit that they gain for in exchange for the extra effort?

I think they are trying to say that a players disposition for a class is the tradeoff. “people are willing to work more b/c they like necros” type of deal…..lol….What else could it mean?

Astralporing.1957:

Wanze.8410:

tekfan.3179:

You say you play a warrior. Is it your main-character? I’ll assume it is, since you aligned yourself personally with that class (“I, as a warrior,…”).

So tell me: How is the status quo not a handicap for everyone with a light-armor profession as his/her main-character?

You seem to have checked if heavy exotic is more expensive, so I guess you ran into a similar situation of being unhappy in that regard.

Its not a handicap for the player with a light armor main because when he started the game, he had the same choices as me.

… so you are saying it is not a handicap for him, because he could simply chose to not play light armor class? Because that actually confirms, that in that regard not playing those professions is a better option.

I am saying its not a handicap to him because i have to pay the same gold as he does, if I choose to deck out a light class. I just chose not to.

Wanze.8410:

Astralporing.1957:

Wanze.8410:

tekfan.3179:

You say you play a warrior. Is it your main-character? I’ll assume it is, since you aligned yourself personally with that class (“I, as a warrior,…”).

So tell me: How is the status quo not a handicap for everyone with a light-armor profession as his/her main-character?

You seem to have checked if heavy exotic is more expensive, so I guess you ran into a similar situation of being unhappy in that regard.

Its not a handicap for the player with a light armor main because when he started the game, he had the same choices as me.

… so you are saying it is not a handicap for him, because he could simply chose to not play light armor class? Because that actually confirms, that in that regard not playing those professions is a better option.

I am saying its not a handicap to him because i have to pay the same gold as he does, if I choose to deck out a light class. I just chose not to.

so whether something is a handicap or not is based on whether you choose the handicap or not?

thats not really the way it works, a handicap is a handicap wether you choose it or not. If i decide to give my friend a 10 point handicap in a basketball match, its still a handicap.

if you have to work harder to achieve the same thing, that is a handicap, its not wether its chosen or not.

So the question is, why was is a handicap designed into ascended aquistion for cloth users.
is there any logical reason that it SHOULD take more effort to gear a cloth user than another?

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

Astralporing.1957:

Wanze.8410:

tekfan.3179:

You say you play a warrior. Is it your main-character? I’ll assume it is, since you aligned yourself personally with that class (“I, as a warrior,…”).

So tell me: How is the status quo not a handicap for everyone with a light-armor profession as his/her main-character?

You seem to have checked if heavy exotic is more expensive, so I guess you ran into a similar situation of being unhappy in that regard.

Its not a handicap for the player with a light armor main because when he started the game, he had the same choices as me.

… so you are saying it is not a handicap for him, because he could simply chose to not play light armor class? Because that actually confirms, that in that regard not playing those professions is a better option.

I am saying its not a handicap to him because i have to pay the same gold as he does, if I choose to deck out a light class. I just chose not to.

so whether something is a handicap or not is based on whether you choose the handicap or not?

thats not really the way it works, a handicap is a handicap wether you choose it or not. If i decide to give my friend a 10 point handicap in a basketball match, its still a handicap.

if you have to work harder to achieve the same thing, that is a handicap, its not wether its chosen or not.

So the question is, why was is a handicap designed into ascended aquistion for cloth users.
is there any logical reason that it SHOULD take more effort to gear a cloth user than another?

Again, I have to work as hard as you to craft a light armor. So you are not handicapped compared to me. You pay the same price as me for silk.

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

Astralporing.1957:

Wanze.8410:

tekfan.3179:

You say you play a warrior. Is it your main-character? I’ll assume it is, since you aligned yourself personally with that class (“I, as a warrior,…”).

So tell me: How is the status quo not a handicap for everyone with a light-armor profession as his/her main-character?

You seem to have checked if heavy exotic is more expensive, so I guess you ran into a similar situation of being unhappy in that regard.

Its not a handicap for the player with a light armor main because when he started the game, he had the same choices as me.

… so you are saying it is not a handicap for him, because he could simply chose to not play light armor class? Because that actually confirms, that in that regard not playing those professions is a better option.

I am saying its not a handicap to him because i have to pay the same gold as he does, if I choose to deck out a light class. I just chose not to.

so whether something is a handicap or not is based on whether you choose the handicap or not?

thats not really the way it works, a handicap is a handicap wether you choose it or not. If i decide to give my friend a 10 point handicap in a basketball match, its still a handicap.

if you have to work harder to achieve the same thing, that is a handicap, its not wether its chosen or not.

So the question is, why was is a handicap designed into ascended aquistion for cloth users.
is there any logical reason that it SHOULD take more effort to gear a cloth user than another?

Again, I have to work as hard as you to craft a light armor. So you are not handicapped compared to me. You pay the same price as me for silk.

That is not what he asked. Not even close.

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

Astralporing.1957:

Wanze.8410:

tekfan.3179:

You say you play a warrior. Is it your main-character? I’ll assume it is, since you aligned yourself personally with that class (“I, as a warrior,…”).

So tell me: How is the status quo not a handicap for everyone with a light-armor profession as his/her main-character?

You seem to have checked if heavy exotic is more expensive, so I guess you ran into a similar situation of being unhappy in that regard.

Its not a handicap for the player with a light armor main because when he started the game, he had the same choices as me.

… so you are saying it is not a handicap for him, because he could simply chose to not play light armor class? Because that actually confirms, that in that regard not playing those professions is a better option.

I am saying its not a handicap to him because i have to pay the same gold as he does, if I choose to deck out a light class. I just chose not to.

so whether something is a handicap or not is based on whether you choose the handicap or not?

thats not really the way it works, a handicap is a handicap wether you choose it or not. If i decide to give my friend a 10 point handicap in a basketball match, its still a handicap.

if you have to work harder to achieve the same thing, that is a handicap, its not wether its chosen or not.

So the question is, why was is a handicap designed into ascended aquistion for cloth users.
is there any logical reason that it SHOULD take more effort to gear a cloth user than another?

Again, I have to work as hard as you to craft a light armor. So you are not handicapped compared to me. You pay the same price as me for silk.

hand·i·cap (h?n?d?-k?p?)
n.
1. Sports & Games
a. A race or contest in which contestants are given advantages or compensations to equalize the chances of winning.
b. Such an advantage or penalty.
2. Usage Problem A physical or mental disability. See Usage Note at handicapped.
3. A disadvantage or inconvenience. See Synonyms at disadvantage.
tr.v. hand·i·capped, hand·i·cap·ping, hand·i·caps
1. Sports & Games To assign handicaps or a handicap to (a contestant).
2. To cause to be at a disadvantage; impede.

a handicap is a disadvantage.
its irrelevant if a disadvantage is chosen, or not chosen. Its a quantifiable difference in difficulty.

is a cloth user at a disadvantage compared to a non cloth user when it comes to gearing to best in slot?

Now, sometimes a handicap/disadvantage is justified. Is this handicap justified?

For those that play PvE, there’s this place called the Silverwastes, and well, silk comes out of there like there’s no tomorrow. However, now, instead of just selling the silk scraps, I’m turning it into Bolts of Silk, which sell for a lot more than the Silk Scraps themselves, though I did sell a few thousand at what ever the highest bidder was before checking the prices on Bolts. That could be another reason why Silk itself is going up in price, but I can usually get 100 – 200 scraps a day playing just a couple of hours.

Zaklex.6308:

For those that play PvE, there’s this place called the Silverwastes, and well, silk comes out of there like there’s no tomorrow. However, now, instead of just selling the silk scraps, I’m turning it into Bolts of Silk, which sell for a lot more than the Silk Scraps themselves, though I did sell a few thousand at what ever the highest bidder was before checking the prices on Bolts. That could be another reason why Silk itself is going up in price, but I can usually get 100 – 200 scraps a day playing just a couple of hours.

yeah, but you need 300 per day for 36 days.
so that, according to what your saying is 3 hours per day.
now imagine someone doesnt like 3 hours of silverwaste a day, or only has 2 hours 5 days a week to play.

yup my friend, you basically have these poor sods by the balls, because the current system is designed to take the money out of their pockets to subsidize your profits.

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

Obtena.7952:

Ashen.2907:

1) anet is not infallible so a customer questioning actions or decisions that negatively impact the game for them is appropriate.

2) Anet has reversed course on previously made design decisions fairly frequently since launch. In almost every case it has been after customers expressed dissatisfaction with the design decision.

Sure, but you don’t get it … it’s already been questioned, it’s already been answered. Of course they can reverse something but we already know the process here isn’t “If we QQ enough, Anet changes it”. In fact, that’s rarely how Devs work.

there has been numerous occaisions where if the users did not question something, it would never have been fixed.
there are numerous occaisons where something has been improved or changed.

And heres the thing you dont realize, even if devs know or accept that they have a problem, they still have to make the descion on how to fix, and when to fix, and wether the cost makes it worthwhile to fix.

so, yeah they actually need people to QQ so they can not only identify things that arent working for the customers, they also need QQ so they can prioritize what/when to fix things.

QQ is actually not bad at all. Its annoying sure, but its pretty useful. QQ in an iterative system is essential.

But Anet fixed the silk price in the last couple of months already.

No, they really did not.

phys.7689:

So what are they trading for a more difficult progression? What is the benefit that they gain for in exchange for the extra effort?

Wanze already pointed some out like less ascended weapons to craft on some classes. Of course, it’s not as simple as you elude to. There are differences across all classes that make some favourable over others depending on the player’s preferences, their willingness and their interests. Just because you put no effort into recognizing them doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

I find it funny your approach is that it’s not ‘justified’ this difference exists. Based on what? Fairness? Still waiting for you to tell me how in a game where class variations exists, this particular difference, out of many, needs to be changed.

300 scraps per day for 36 days is only a problem if you feel compelled to craft it in the minimum time. Not having enough silk to craft on a particular day doesn’t cause you to lose progress.

Astraea.6075:

300 scraps per day for 36 days is only a problem if you feel compelled to craft it in the minimum time. Not having enough silk to craft on a particular day doesn’t cause you to lose progress.

300 for 36 days, is a problem because other classes dont need that much.

and it was designed to be a daily craft, meaning, they are setting the goal at 300 a day.

as far as not feeling compelled, designing systems that interact with humans means part of your design has to account for human psychology.

I really don’t see how people can be defending keeping the requirements for crafting light ascended armor the way that it is right now.

having twice the material costs for crafting spool of silk thread as any other ascended mat is ridiculous now that the glut of silk is off the market.

How bout this………

Cut the Damask requirement for light armor in half, replace what Damask was taken out with Elonian leather, and then add more Damask into the recipes of the medium and heavy armor.

Silk doesn’t need to be changed at all, just balance out Damask requirements between Light, Medium, and Heavy armors.

See how many Heavy and Medium armor users like that.

Obtena.7952:

phys.7689:

So what are they trading for a more difficult progression? What is the benefit that they gain for in exchange for the extra effort?

Wanze already pointed some out like less ascended weapons to craft on some classes. Of course, it’s not as simple as you elude to. There are differences across all classes that make some favourable over others depending on the player’s preferences, their willingness and their interests. Just because you put no effort into recognizing them doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

I find it funny your approach is that it’s not ‘justified’ this difference exists. Based on what? Fairness? Still waiting for you to tell me how in a game where class variations exists, this particular difference, out of many, needs to be changed.

class variation gives different options, playstyles and variety.

there is no variety in having the same stats but lower
there is no option other than to be weaker, or to be stronger
there is no playstyle choice, you do the exact same things, you are just less effecient at it.

and as to wanze theory on the warrior needs more weapons so it has cheaper armor trade off,
that doesnt hold water

engineer has 3 weapon types, and has cheap armor
mesmer has 7 weapon types and has expensive armor
thief has 6 weapon types and has cheap armor

there is no corelation between number of available weapons and armor costs.

phys.7689:

Astraea.6075:

300 scraps per day for 36 days is only a problem if you feel compelled to craft it in the minimum time. Not having enough silk to craft on a particular day doesn’t cause you to lose progress.

300 for 36 days, is a problem because other classes dont need that much.

and it was designed to be a daily craft, meaning, they are setting the goal at 300 a day.

as far as not feeling compelled, designing systems that interact with humans means part of your design has to account for human psychology.

The daily craft limit has been set to act as a gate, not a goal. Yes, human psychology will mean that people will treat it as a goal, but that is self-imposed to a large degree.

If you have set yourself a goal of crafting a set of light ascended armor in the minimum time, you will need to put in the effort needed. Is the effort more than needed to do the same for heavy ascended? Sure, but both are arbitrary goals, not ones set by the game itself.

This is how I, as a casual player who has only crafted 4/6 of my main’s (heavy) ascended armor, view the daily craft gate. YMMV.

Astraea.6075:

phys.7689:

Astraea.6075:

300 scraps per day for 36 days is only a problem if you feel compelled to craft it in the minimum time. Not having enough silk to craft on a particular day doesn’t cause you to lose progress.

300 for 36 days, is a problem because other classes dont need that much.

and it was designed to be a daily craft, meaning, they are setting the goal at 300 a day.

as far as not feeling compelled, designing systems that interact with humans means part of your design has to account for human psychology.

The daily craft limit has been set to act as a gate, not a goal. Yes, human psychology will mean that people will treat it as a goal, but that is self-imposed to a large degree.

If you have set yourself a goal of crafting a set of light ascended armor in the minimum time, you will need to put in the effort needed. Is the effort more than needed to do the same for heavy ascended? Sure, but both are arbitrary goals, not ones set by the game itself.

This is how I, as a casual player who has only crafted 4/6 of my main’s (heavy) ascended armor, view the daily craft gate. YMMV.

regardless of psychological tendencies, why does it take less time and resources for your main, than for someone who is cloths main?

is there a good reason for this?

Phys: you’ve made your point very well. Ascended light is more expensive and takes more time, and thus is unfair.

But the question I have is: Why are you so preoccupied with fairness?

Does having the current requirement for ascended light break the game? No.
Does the current requirement preclude anyone from obtaining it? No.
Does it mean certain classes have to work harder than others? Yes.
Do the economic aspects of silk and ascended cause the economy as a whole to not function? No.
Does it separate the player base? No

So why does it matter if the material requirements are higher for light armor then the others? Why does it have to be fair?

It may not be “fair” but as one who is in the process of crafting ascended light, I haven’t found it to be that much of a problem. I can farm more silk than I can the other mats fairly easily and without much effort.

pdavis.8031:

Phys: you’ve made your point very well. Ascended light is more expensive and takes more time, and thus is unfair.

But the question I have is: Why are you so preoccupied with fairness?

Does having the current requirement for ascended light break the game? No.
Does the current requirement preclude anyone from obtaining it? No.
Does it mean certain classes have to work harder than others? Yes.
Do the economic aspects of silk and ascended cause the economy as a whole to not function? No.
Does it separate the player base? No

So why does it matter if the material requirements are higher for light armor then the others? Why does it have to be fair?

It may not be “fair” but as one who is in the process of crafting ascended light, I haven’t found it to be that much of a problem. I can farm more silk than I can the other mats fairly easily and without much effort.

In the same breath you could be asked why Norn don’t do more melee dmg than an asura, vice versa with magic.
Why is an asura as fast as a human or sylvari and why aren’t charr and norn faster than those?
Why does an minimum-sized asura with its tiny weapons and armor need the exact same amount of materials for crafting as a max-sized norn?

Answer: Fairness.

pdavis.8031:

Does having the current requirement for ascended light break the game? No.

But it does detract from it.

Does the current requirement preclude anyone from obtaining it? No.

But it does make it harder for light armor users.

Does it mean certain classes have to work harder than others? Yes.
Do the economic aspects of silk and ascended cause the economy as a whole to not function? No.

But even if economy as a whole functions perfectly, it can still have negative impact on individuals. Which in this case it has.

Does it separate the player base? No

Not sure if you are serious here. I hope you are not really claiming that it impacts all the players (regardless of what classes they play) equally hard. Because it doesn’t.

pdavis.8031:

It may not be “fair” but as one who is in the process of crafting ascended light, I haven’t found it to be that much of a problem.

So, if it’s not a problem specifically for you, then the problem does not exist. Yeah, right.

pdavis.8031:

I can farm more silk than I can the other mats fairly easily and without much effort.

There is no way you can farm silk more easily than you could farm mithril or elder wood. If you can, please, do share your miracle source.

Guardian Of Tyria.6397:

I really don’t see how people can be defending keeping the requirements for crafting light ascended armor the way that it is right now.

having twice the material costs for crafting spool of silk thread as any other ascended mat is ridiculous now that the glut of silk is off the market.

How bout this………

Cut the Damask requirement for light armor in half, replace what Damask was taken out with Elonian leather, and then add more Damask into the recipes of the medium and heavy armor.

Silk doesn’t need to be changed at all, just balance out Damask requirements between Light, Medium, and Heavy armors.

See how many Heavy and Medium armor users like that.

I disagree with changing the Damask recipe. Why? Because lots of people have already crafted Damask with the current (bad) recipe. Are we going to get our silk back? Of course not.

I disagree with altering the materials needed for heavy/medium armor too. It’s not an answer, people already crafted those paying that extra requirement.

Is Arenanet aware of the Silk problem? Yes they are. Evidence? Look at the last Wintersday, how Cloth materials were salvaged from the Wintersday items. Price of cloth dropped during Wintersday too. Also, Lost Bandit Chests give a good amount of Cloth materials, so the devs DO KNOW, and ARE giving us more choices for cloth materials. Obviously they aren’t enough.

Solution:
Add more ways to earn Silk, as opposed to altering the recipes. By far the simplest way is to allow ALL armor types to salvage into cloth, I mean cloth is needed for ALL the insignias, so it makes sense when you salvage them to get cloth back.

So no matter which armor weight you salvage, you get BOTH cloth and the weight-appropriate material. Salvage a green Heavy Helmet, you will get Silk AND Mithril. Make salvaging actually give the RAW materials it requires. Same principle can be applied to Weapons, weapons could salvage into both wood and metal (and leather).

I think this change will make salvaging a lot better and solve the Cloth problem. Simple and elegant solution without upsetting players who already crafted their items.

If adding so much extra materials might be considered a problem, allow higher quality salvage kits to offer players the option to salvage into their choice of material. So when salvaging that Longbow, you choose between Wood or Leather.

actually, silk comes from living creatures, introducing silk worms and plants that grant fibers to craft say jute, gossamer etc.. would alleviate some of the issue around light armor crafting. Perhaps add silk worms in the maguuma jungle? Seems like a good natural habitat. With the Xpac likely months away, doing the ground work for later on adding silk worms and other fiber nodes seems feasible for the time being.

Ashen.2907:

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

Astralporing.1957:

Wanze.8410:

tekfan.3179:

You say you play a warrior. Is it your main-character? I’ll assume it is, since you aligned yourself personally with that class (“I, as a warrior,…”).

So tell me: How is the status quo not a handicap for everyone with a light-armor profession as his/her main-character?

You seem to have checked if heavy exotic is more expensive, so I guess you ran into a similar situation of being unhappy in that regard.

Its not a handicap for the player with a light armor main because when he started the game, he had the same choices as me.

… so you are saying it is not a handicap for him, because he could simply chose to not play light armor class? Because that actually confirms, that in that regard not playing those professions is a better option.

I am saying its not a handicap to him because i have to pay the same gold as he does, if I choose to deck out a light class. I just chose not to.

so whether something is a handicap or not is based on whether you choose the handicap or not?

thats not really the way it works, a handicap is a handicap wether you choose it or not. If i decide to give my friend a 10 point handicap in a basketball match, its still a handicap.

if you have to work harder to achieve the same thing, that is a handicap, its not wether its chosen or not.

So the question is, why was is a handicap designed into ascended aquistion for cloth users.
is there any logical reason that it SHOULD take more effort to gear a cloth user than another?

Again, I have to work as hard as you to craft a light armor. So you are not handicapped compared to me. You pay the same price as me for silk.

That is not what he asked. Not even close.

The fundamental difference between our opinion is that I am talking about handicaps between players, which dont exist in this regard and phys is talking about handicaps between classes. They do exist but are the same for every player.

If we start balancing classes around the economy, more issues have to be adressed, like cheap exotic light and medium armor, the amount of weapons every class can use, food, sigils, runes which are meta for some builds.

Why does a wvw player have to spend gold (for objective upgrades) in order to play his game mode as intended while a dungeon runner only gains gold?

In the end, i agree, that light armor users are a bit shafted by the daily timegate and I dont mind, if they find a way to bring them on par with medium and heavy armor.

But then we have to look at other timegates as well, that are disproportionally distributed.

Why do heavy armor users have to spend 55 laurels and 33g for the recipes in order to get a full ascended weapon set and an engi only has to spend 20 laurels and 12g, an ele only needs 25 laurels and 15g?

35 Laurels is a huge difference and makes the 6 days that a light armor user needs more to craft his damask (which can be circumvented by buying it directly anyways) seem miniscule.