Guild Wars 2

My personal feeling is that the game has a good balance of serious and funny. The personal story, for the most part, is very serious and tackles various emotional situations (such as the lost of friends and fighting against overwhelming odds). I’d also like to add that characters like Tybalt are essential in serious stories, as it gives you a character you can warm to and form an emotional bond with.

The only fault I would give the PS is that it is more about Trehaurne then me. As it was supposed to be my story, I felt a little cheated that the later part of it was more about Trehaurne’s mission and Trehaurne’s accomplishments. But that is for a different thread.

Overall, you need both serious content and funny content. Guild Wars 2, as far as I can see, has a good mix of both. There is plenty in this game for you to immerse yourself into if all you want is serious. Spend some time in Orr and really take in what has happened there. If you know Guild Wars history well enough, just walking through the scenery can tell a serious story by itself. And I would also add that just because you do not enjoy the more light hearted side of the game, does not mean others do not either. I for one appreciated much of the games humour and I thank Anet for adding it.

OP has just read my mind…

darkdomino.9578:

What I’m really saying is that I would have been much more receptive to some mature writing that actually treats the audience like they’ve got an above-average IQ.

The thing is, I think there are just so many people playing that have a below-average IQ that if ANet were to make the game more intelligent, they would end up alienating a large portion of their source of profit. Profit will always come first.

darkdomino.9578:

You’ve got an enormous amount of lore in the Guild Wars universe and it feels like you haven’t tapped into any of it.

The lore of GW1 was rich and unique and added a real depth to the game, but in GW2 everything seems shallow and like they have barely expanded on the lore at all, or in some cases just completely forgotten about it.
Why are the Elder Dragons evil? Dev answer: ‘They just are. Get used to it.’ Very creative…

I guess working on lore and immersion isn’t cost effective when so many of your player base wouldn’t really care if you did.

GW2 is just another fine example of the dumbing down of the RPG genre to cater for a larger audience. Namely, little kiddies with no attention span or regard for the setting of the game they are playing.

The dark, gritty, serious world of Tyria 250 years ago gave me some of my fondest gaming memories, but when I look at the game universe now all I can think of is what could have been…

This is the reason why i skip every bit of dialogue. The bad writing and the silly tone that ruins the immersion is really not worth listening to.

Tobias

I’ll try to be as brief as possible.

a) It is the new staffs’ call on game direction, but disregarding earlier content for bad reasons is still wrong. The over-the-top mass-market appeal of this game is a bad reason(that ridiculous “Our Time is Now” commercial alone is evidence enough). Profit motive should never trump artistic integrity.

b) Having the right to something and right vs wrong are two different things.

c) So…it’s more important to make sure your story is technically consistent rather than spiritually consistent. Got it.

d) You still didn’t need to bring up the Titan quests, but whatever. Also, you used that opening to insinuate the Charr are not really responsible for the Searing. I’ve seen this line before. They always wanted to eradicate humans, the Titans just gave them the means to do so. If anything, I’d say the Charr were using the Titans.

e) Saying Ascalon was irrevocably gone after the Titan quests sounds like wishful thinking on your part, there’s no hard evidence of that. So…they push out the Charr from south of the wall and destroy their gods before their very eyes. Looks like a victory to me. The land is in shambles? So what. That hardly warrants throwing in the towel. And the argument about there being more Charr warbands to the north can be used just the same to say there are more Ascalonian soldiers to the south. It wasn’t something the story expanded upon at the time. It’s probably easy to assume it dead and gone though because the later books and lore did so much to beat that into our brains…not to mention unfairly vilifying a king.

f) I never said Cantha and Elona had to be there on release. They weren’t for GW1 and it worked out fine. And Utopia content could be simply used as a possible future expansion like it originally was. Besides, GW2 still has more expansions to come, 4-5 if you count one per dragon.

g) I simply meant taking a different approach to the sequel altogether. You spent 2 paragraphs squabbling over time-frame issues. So lets just say the development of GW2 to start right after Nightfall, mkay?

h) “The Falls” was one of my favorite area’s too, and even more so because there was nothing making you go there. Do you know how many solo roamers there are out there? One of the best aspects of Tyria(in both games) is the beautiful world around you. I hear people all the time in my GW2 guild say they just like “roaming around” for no better reason than it’s fun and connecting. You don’t need quests/merchants/etc to entice you to go somewhere.

i) I don’t understand why, if things went the direction I’ve stated, you think there would be only one major town, or camps on the brink, or a giant wasteland, or whatever. GW2 had stuff happen in between the games, the exact same thing can apply with this version. It doesn’t have to start 1 day after Nightfall. And even if it did, there would be plenty of towns/cities to go to.

j) I didn’t mean to imply that you work for ANet, only that you tend to grant them the benefit of the doubt, and let their reasons intermingle with your reasons. Perhaps that is just coincidental.

k) I understand you are limited by time constraints, we all are. I was merely saying you could have said just as much with less.

Obsidian.1328:

Tobias
I’ll try to be as brief as possible.

I’ll do the same as a courtesy. If I sound brusque, that’s why. some of your replies are edited for length concerns.

a) It is the new staffs’ call on game direction, but disregarding earlier content for bad reasons is still wrong. The over-the-top mass-market appeal of this game is a bad reason. Profit motive should never trump artistic integrity.
b) Having the right to something and right vs wrong are two different things.
c) So…it’s more important to make sure your story is technically consistent rather than spiritually consistent. Got it.

The morality of it can be debated, certainly. I think it would be rude to pull a “One More Day” with established lore. However, that’s the right of the people holding the license. Note, that example was an extraordinarily BAD EXAMPLE of what to do with established characters. I specifically did choose it for the point.

d) You still didn’t need to bring up the Titan quests, but whatever. Also, you used that opening to insinuate the Charr are not really responsible for the Searing. I’ve seen this line before. They always wanted to eradicate humans, the Titans just gave them the means to do so. If anything, I’d say the Charr were using the Titans.

They can hold the blame, but it would not have happened without the Titans’ influence. Specifically, the Searing Cauldron. Also to note, even before that thing was used, the charr were winning ground. The only thing keeping them out of the rest of Ascalon was the Great Northern Wall.

e)

Unfairly vilifying someone like King Adelbern is easy when his son going “father, we really should think about the people and come back later” causes him to go “OUT! I HAVE NO SON! GTFO!” . . .

So, yeah, he was already really unstable. Which is one contributing factor to “Ascalon is gone” because vengeance-crazed proud rulers rarely work out well.

f) I never said Cantha and Elona had to be there on release. They weren’t for GW1 and it worked out fine. And Utopia content could be simply used as a possible future expansion like it originally was. Besides, GW2 still has more expansions to come, 4-5 if you count one per dragon.

We’ll probably be seeing Elona. Cantha has been nixed for now.

And I’d like to go back too and clean up what great-great-great-grandfather Tobias screwed up.

g) I simply meant taking a different approach to the sequel altogether. You spent 2 paragraphs squabbling over time-frame issues. So lets just say the development of GW2 to start right after Nightfall, mkay?

Sure, I could plot that out. I’m not going to right now, as I have a meeting in 10-15 minutes. And it’d be pure theory anyway. I actually have some other world-building I’d rather be doing, though, so . . . I might revisit it? No promises but there’s very little point in thinking on it.

Suffice it to say, though, I still contend that if EOTN was intended to be the precursor to GW2 then development of GW2 started when development on EOTN started.

h)

I sure as heck didn’t. But even I admit there was a lot of empty space which didn’t have anything of significant “uniqueness” to draw you there.

i) I don’t understand why, if things went the direction I’ve stated, you think there would be only one major town, or camps on the brink, or a giant wasteland, or whatever. GW2 had stuff happen in between the games, the exact same thing can apply with this version. It doesn’t have to start 1 day after Nightfall. And even if it did, there would be plenty of towns/cities to go to.

I tried covering this in the “extra” stuff I was posting. If we try to stay true to the same path as much as possible, that’s what we wind up with. It would take a rewrite of BioWare level proportions to make it work. (And I mean back when they were Black Isle and did the Baldur’s Gate series.)

j) I didn’t mean to imply that you work for ANet, only that you tend to grant them the benefit of the doubt, and let their reasons intermingle with your reasons. Perhaps that is just coincidental.

Everyone gets the benefit of the doubt from me, until I no longer feel inclined to be polite.

Tobias

Much shorter now:

b?) I don’t know what you mean by “One More Day”

d) You’re right, they were winning ground…because of the Titan’s influence and power. Before the north fell there were many long years of general inactivity from the Charr.

e) Lol, well if everyone was judged by one ill-tempered comment, we’d all be insane. For one thing, you don’t tell the king he’s wrong in a public setting, you do it privately…Rurik should have known better. For another, Adelbern knew seeking help in Kryta probably meant Ascalon becoming a subject of Kryta, as well as him losing his crown, but regardless it was right not to trust that Mantle rep outside Ascalon City…for obvious reasons. And finally, Adelbern’s decision to stay is vindicated in the defeat of the Charr Titan’s, Rurik’s decision to leave cost him his life and the refugee’s their home and dignity.

At any rate, Adelbern was genuinely regretful of his parting words to his son. You see that in his dialogue after the Titan’s defeat. The “vengeance-crazed proud ruler” is largely a construct of the books and modern lore. Try to see it without those blinders on.

f) …great-great-grandfather…WHAT?

g) Don’t bother, it’s not asked for nor needed. Also, I totally agree development of GW2 started with the development of EotN, I never contended that.

h) True, but you don’t need to feel compelled to explore. It’s a reward in and of itself.

i) Your “extra” stuff was predicated on the assumption that only Kryta proper would be a viable option for any explorable areas in the game…I’ve already covered why I don’t think that would be the case.

j) I’m the same way, but ANet lost that privilege a while ago in my eyes. :/

Obsidian.1328:

b?) I don’t know what you mean by “One More Day”

It would not be entirely inaccurate to think of ‘One More Day’ as a System Restore… from hell. It was a controversial retcon, as it were, of the Amazing Spider-Man’s marital status.

Tachenon.5270:

Obsidian.1328:

b?) I don’t know what you mean by “One More Day”

It would not be entirely inaccurate to think of ‘One More Day’ as a System Restore… from hell. It was a controversial retcon, as it were, of the Amazing Spider-Man’s marital status.

Ah I see. Well if it’s any consolation, I certainly wouldn’t expect any System Restore on this game right now. That would be a disaster.

Obsidian.1328:

Tobias
f) …great-great-grandfather…WHAT?

My ranger in Guild Wars 1 shares the same name. I’m referring to the plot thread in Nightfall where you let Palawa Joko go in order to pursue Varesh into the Desolation . Seems that turned out to be a bad call.

g) Don’t bother, it’s not asked for nor needed. Also, I totally agree development of GW2 started with the development of EotN, I never contended that.

And that’s why I said that anything after Nightfall had to be development time used towards GW2, since it was used on EOTN . . . if EOTN was a part of the story they wanted to finish in GW2 . . .

j) I’m the same way, but ANet lost that privilege a while ago in my eyes. :/

Unfortunately enough for me, I tend to be more forgiving.

I wish Traherne would die.

The asura make me want to puke.

Why is it all the “highly intelligent” races always seem the most stupid ones?

Gnomes in WoW did it too.

“Well I made this epic machine that can look into the future. Oh lol it crashed, steam creatures everywhere. Insert cheesy line. LET’S DO IT AGAIN!”

Rika.7249:

The asura make me want to puke.

Why is it all the “highly intelligent” races always seem the most stupid ones?

Gnomes in WoW did it too.

“Well I made this epic machine that can look into the future. Oh lol it crashed, steam creatures everywhere. Insert cheesy line. LET’S DO IT AGAIN!”

You forgot: “FOR SCIENCE!” Note, having intelligence and book smarts doesn’t always make you immune from idiocy.

Heh, science is all about repeated failures. That is, if you learn what went wrong and correct for it the next time. Tho when you have groups like the Inquest that dabble in chaos magic, any amount of iteration may not solve the inherent issue of it being chaotic…

Asura magitech is like steam power but without the possibility of ever getting it to behave 99% reliable. And with chaos magic you are replacing steam power with nuclear power…

Let me say that I have never played GW1.

I like the style of not taking yourself too seriously and I think it fit’s very nicely to this genre.

darkdomino.9578:

This is something that has kinda bugged me from the get-go. The tone and style of Guild Wars 1 was fairly dark, post-searing… The dialogue was fairly serious, people talked about serious things. Even though the storyline was kinda disjointed, it still had an air of legitimacy. As the series “matured”, we saw a little bit more levity and comedy in the game – such as Kilroy Stoneskin – or the quest NPC in Factions who implies, more or less, that he needs you to help him get viagra to make his wife happy.

Guild Wars 2 seems to take everything a bit far. The entire game feels like one running gag after the next. The dialogue feels like parody more than something to be taken seriously. The asura, for god’s sake, are an entire race devoted to parody – everything they say is in the context of something outlandish, goofy, or absurd. It reminds me of when you clicked units in Warcraft too many times, and they said funny out-of-character things – well the entire game of GW2 feels like one big reel of out-of-character one-liners, inside jokes, and running gags.

The character of Tybalt, for example, is one running gag after the next. One mission involves him disguising himself, (via magic of course) as a woman and … talking like a woman… and just acting like a complete and total kitten I’m sure the GW2 writers thought all this was terribly clever, but I found it to be a bit tiresome. What I’m really saying is that I would have been much more receptive to some mature writing that actually treats the audience like they’ve got an above-average IQ.

The whole game feels like that guy who thinks he’s a whole lot funnier than he really is. He’s always elbowing you, making wisecracks at everything…. eh eh eh eh eh – It’s like for the love of god TAKE SOMETHING SERIOUSLY. Not everything is a gag, A-net. Not everything has to be some goofy inside joke. Can we get some actual writers to do some serious storylines for Guild Wars? You’ve got an enormous amount of lore in the Guild Wars universe and it feels like you haven’t tapped into any of it.

We get it, A-net … you can make a joke. But can you actually tell a compelling fantasy story? I guess we’ll see.

Really? I like the comic in the game. No game should be sooo serious, period.. If you can’t take humor in a game then you must be a sad sad person in real life.

I’m starting to feel the same way. It is starting to seem like one big gag.

The super adventure box is fun, but does reduce immersion in a fantasy world.
As well as the legendaries that are just goofy (pistol shortbow?) Pop guns and rainbows?

Because MMO’s are too darn gloomy and serious. A change in pace is nice. Also, suspense keeps you stuck to your screen as does fear. What happens to people who can only be logged in 30 minutes – 1 hour a day? you expect to keep their attention with horror and drama and dark seeded stories? Not gonna happen. If you want drama or fear or mind bending stories, well that is what consoles are for. You should be able to be crazy about your game no matter your tastes. If you aren’t there is something else out there for you. Go to CNN and read the top 20 stories, now do that every day for a year. Follow whats going on in the world and tell me you don’t want to log in and hear some asura say “who would want anything that gives you harpys anyway”. I think it is about time the goofy theme entered the MMO world, aside from goofy graphics (won’t mention names…). GJ to Arenanet getting it. And a veteran thanks them for creating something I can drift away to and laugh with. Real life has enough problems, why live in 2 worlds full of them.

Geotherma.2395:

Because MMO’s are too darn gloomy and serious. A change in pace is nice. Also, suspense keeps you stuck to your screen as does fear. What happens to people who can only be logged in 30 minutes – 1 hour a day? you expect to keep their attention with horror and drama and dark seeded stories? Not gonna happen. If you want drama or fear or mind bending stories, well that is what consoles are for. You should be able to be crazy about your game no matter your tastes. If you aren’t there is something else out there for you. Go to CNN and read the top 20 stories, now do that every day for a year. Follow whats going on in the world and tell me you don’t want to log in and hear some asura say “who would want anything that gives you harpys anyway”. I think it is about time the goofy theme entered the MMO world, aside from goofy graphics (won’t mention names…). GJ to Arenanet getting it. And a veteran thanks them for creating something I can drift away to and laugh with. Real life has enough problems, why live in 2 worlds full of them.

I can’t believe you just told someone to go to consoles for deeper gameplay.

killcannon.2576:

Geotherma.2395:

Because MMO’s are too darn gloomy and serious. A change in pace is nice. Also, suspense keeps you stuck to your screen as does fear. What happens to people who can only be logged in 30 minutes – 1 hour a day? you expect to keep their attention with horror and drama and dark seeded stories? Not gonna happen. If you want drama or fear or mind bending stories, well that is what consoles are for. You should be able to be crazy about your game no matter your tastes. If you aren’t there is something else out there for you. Go to CNN and read the top 20 stories, now do that every day for a year. Follow whats going on in the world and tell me you don’t want to log in and hear some asura say “who would want anything that gives you harpys anyway”. I think it is about time the goofy theme entered the MMO world, aside from goofy graphics (won’t mention names…). GJ to Arenanet getting it. And a veteran thanks them for creating something I can drift away to and laugh with. Real life has enough problems, why live in 2 worlds full of them.

I can’t believe you just told someone to go to consoles for deeper gameplay.

I did. :P
My reason is because MMO’s require time to experience true immersion. In a console game there IS an end. An MMO, not so much. You won’t get the kind of story or in depth feel in an mmo that you can in a console or pc game, or heck even a movie. MMO’s try to emit this feeling but it is never easy. GW2 does a great job with story, but you really need to work for it and there will always be more to come. What I was trying to say is that the darkness, the depressing drama stories, are usually found in NON-MMO games. the deep ones at least. There are plenty of mmos that have dark or dramatic stories yes, but they are far overplayed and uninteresting because of that fact. Look at wildstar, I can’t for a second take that game seriously. But it looks pretty fun ^^ Even with the announcer in the background making it sound epic and super important, I know I’ll feel like a 5 year old playing it. And thats not such a bad thing sometimes. FUN is what MMO’s are missing, most times FUN is incorporated in events rather than storyline. In consoles or PC games that are not MMO, the focus is on the story, to get you into it and get you to the final result. In an mmo, there really isn’t a clear ending, as expansions and addons come out to keep the playability strong. The point of an MMo world is to be just that, a world. And you live there, with others, every day. Point of non mmo’s, beat the game-play the sequal-enjoy the experience until it is over.

I don’t feel players of MMO’s should ever feel like they need to reach the end of the story, the end of the game. I feel that they should feel ups and downs and development without constantly having to be depressed or sad or angry. They should feel that just playing the game, logging in and seeing the life of the game, that is the immersion people want. And humor is something that most mmo’s don’t use enough for that purpose.

Well said Geo ^^

Rika.7249:

The asura make me want to puke.

Why is it all the “highly intelligent” races always seem the most stupid ones?

Gnomes in WoW did it too.

“Well I made this epic machine that can look into the future. Oh lol it crashed, steam creatures everywhere. Insert cheesy line. LET’S DO IT AGAIN!”

Something you might want to consider about this, that isn’t so funny … the Asura are a purely amoral scientific society. They place no real value on life in their pursuit of knowledge. If they kill a few people to learn a lesson – big deal – there are always more people; they’re a renewable resource. They lock any member of their race who proves to be of less than stellar intelligence in prison to prevent the spread of stupidity, which they perceive as a virus. They consider all other forms of “intelligent” life beneath them. (and barely acknowledge their intelligence as all … these other races aren’t “people” by any stretch of the imagination and if they willingly sacrifice their own in pursuit of science, what do you really think they’ll do if someone else is more useful dead than alive?)

These are not a good people; they are an ally of convenience.

In GW1, we had Maurice LaMarche, the voice of The Brain, playing the main Asura character. In GW2, we have… Felicia Day. That tells you everything pretty much.

RebelYell.7132:

In GW1, we had Maurice LaMarche, the voice of The Brain, playing the main Asura character. In GW2, we have… Felicia Day. That tells you everything pretty much.

We also have Steve Blum doing a charr (again). He’s not small voice talent, and is very good at doing those types of characters. I could be slightly biased because the last charr (Pyre Fierceshot) he played was quite entertaining.

And Paul Eiding as Forgal . . .

. . . and Crispin Freeman kicking around in various places.

. . . and Nolan North. And Quinton Flynn. And Jennifer Hale. There are quite a few recognizable voice talents in here. Don’t sneer at Felicia Day playing an asura. We could have gotten worse . . . could have been Tara Strong.

(I kid, I kid. I would have liked her, but I don’t think you’ll see her available for a while.)

I don’t have anything really against Felicia Day’s acting as Zojja . . . I have everything against the way the character is written because it comes off REALLY poorly.

Also consider in GW1 we didn’t have as many voice talents kicking around but we still had good ones. Who returned for this game too.

Eladriel.7295:

Really? I like the comic in the game. No game should be sooo serious, period.. If you can’t take humor in a game then you must be a sad sad person in real life.

I think nobody is against there being humor in the game, it’s the sort of humor that’s bothering people. Jokes that a 5 year old would laugh about are generally not something I find funny.

Writing humor is hard, because humor is so subjective.

Ten years ago I moved to Australia from the US. Stuff that’s funny in the US often isn’t considered funny here at all. I’m assuming it’s the same in reverse.

I find several things in Guild Wars 2 to be quite entertaining. There are other things I don’t find quite as entertaining. Some things make me chuckle, other’s don’t.

I’m not sure the writing is at fault, so much as the background of the person viewing a specific joke.

For example, I never found Tybalt “goofy”. I found him cartoonish in some instances, but there was something I really liked about him. Some of the back and forth between Logan and Rylock, even in the books, I really liked, but other people didn’t.

That’s the problem with humor. It’s not easy to pin down. There are indeed very few jokes that everyone finds funny.

I think it’s because the personal story is a less striking aspect of the game to the majority, which bears a more a serious tone. We have more of our attention distracted by the goofy-ness that you will encounter outside of the personal story in smaller regional settings that overall have little to no relevance to the greater truth, which is to tackle the elder dragons.

Kasama.8941:

This is part of the reason (the other being the really bad dialog) why I don’t like the personal story, but love the dungeon story of Destiny’s Edge. Sometimes this game just feels like it’s rated ‘Everyone 10+’, and not Teen. It’s a bit annoying.

You liked the teen drama story of who can act the least mature in a situation that needs maturity, thought, and the ability to not waste time on stupid arguments(excluding Eir and Caithe the only 2 that actually had a level head and tried to get things done making them believable as leaders of their society). High school and middle school must of been a blast for you. Eir and Caithe were like the teachers trying to get the students to shut up and listen so they might actually get things done.

Ya their is a lot to the story/dialogue that i don’t like but one of them is the constant joking. It’s fine when it’s dialogue that you have to kind of find by clicking on npcs to make them talk or finding a random conversation that doesn’t happen to often. Instead we get jokes as the main dialogue for a ton of npcs that are made multiple times a day and weren’t really even funny to begin with. Tybalt being the prime example of this he didn’t know how to not joke until it was to late and he had to make a choice. Tybalt being probably the best character in the personal story but that isn’t saying a lot of good for the personal story as he was just a clown most of the time but he did develop as a character at least. Although if i had to go back and listen to Tybalt again just for the jokes i probably wouldn’t.

We have Justin Beiber, life is goofy.

100% accurate representation, my cat walks around with a greatsword and everything.

Emmet.2943:

You liked the teen drama story of who can act the least mature in a situation that needs maturity, thought, and the ability to not waste time on stupid arguments(excluding Eir and Caithe the only 2 that actually had a level head and tried to get things done making them believable as leaders of their society). High school and middle school must of been a blast for you. Eir and Caithe were like the teachers trying to get the students to shut up and listen so they might actually get things done.

Are you trying to say that grownups can’t be stubborn or ignorant? Because you are greatly mistaken then. Destiny’s Edge aren’t exactly mad at each other over “who gets to go to the prom”. Someone died that shouldn’t had died. People in the real world get separated over less then that..

On topic: I was actually really starting to like the Flame & Frost story. Braham is pictured to be this tough norn, who’s the son of Eir, which fits for most of his story. But then at the end of his story, when you talk to Braham, he suddenly acts like a 10 year old boy, when he gets asked about a girl:

-So…who’s Ottilia?
-Ottilia? Who’s Ottilia? Well, she lives in Cragstead, and she’s… kind of beautiful. I mean sweet. She’s nice. Okay?
-Sounds like you’re sweet on her. Talk to you later.

I really don’t understand who the writers have in mind, when they write this? There was a topic a while back, where players could write their age, and the majority of people who wrote in that topic were over 25 years old. This sentence sounds like it was written to an audience of 8-12 year olds. Why couldn’t they have written something on the lines of this:

-Who’s Ottilia?
-Ottilia? She’s the girl I grew up with. We’ve always been close. I asked her father permission to marry her, but…he said I wasn’t worthy yet. Maybe now I can prove to him, that I am. If they are still alive..
-I am sure they are. We will find them.

So what I get from all this is that some people have a hard time at taking things as they are and instead put a lot of extra meaning where there may or may not be. Maybe some are just finding reason to not like the game without realizing what they are doing.

A lot of random “made for kids” comments throughout here too. I’m 33, first MMO was when I got in on the EQ1 Phase 4 beta and been hooked on MMOs since. This one has refreshingly connected story elements that draw together to a final conclusion. The lore is some of the best I have seen since EQ1, and that is probably because GW1 was around to set most of that stage.

Hell GW1 had a big thick book that came with it talking about history and races…games don’t do that anymore. There are light hearted moments in this game and I enjoyed them and laughed a few times. There are very dark moments in this game where I pushed forward and wanted to find resolution to them if possible.

Was the voice acting perfect? Maybe not. Was it so horrible I covered my ears and turned off the sound. No, and I waited to listen to every moment of it. Probably an artifact of the actors not being together when doing the lines. Evident in many voice acting scenarios. If you ever played the Uncharted games you see how well the dialog went between the actors and that is because they were in the same room feeding off the energy of each other.

Someone made a very good point that in text you can use your imagination and apply the ideas that you come up with to the words you read. So you would read something differently than others. In spoken word, now someone is reading the lines in a way you don’t agree with, so it puts you off.

Another thing I really enjoyed was reading the two books that have been published. Those really set the stage and tone of the current cast of characters and state of the world.

Sometimes you have to just learn to enjoy things because they are fun. All dark and gloomy is tedious, even sad and angry people smile every now and then… Unless you have no lips

Kasama.8941:

Emmet.2943:

You liked the teen drama story of who can act the least mature in a situation that needs maturity, thought, and the ability to not waste time on stupid arguments(excluding Eir and Caithe the only 2 that actually had a level head and tried to get things done making them believable as leaders of their society). High school and middle school must of been a blast for you. Eir and Caithe were like the teachers trying to get the students to shut up and listen so they might actually get things done.

Are you trying to say that grownups can’t be stubborn or ignorant? Because you are greatly mistaken then. Destiny’s Edge aren’t exactly mad at each other over “who gets to go to the prom”. Someone died that shouldn’t had died. People in the real world get separated over less then that..

On topic: I was actually really starting to like the Flame & Frost story. Braham is pictured to be this tough norn, who’s the son of Eir, which fits for most of his story. But then at the end of his story, when you talk to Braham, he suddenly acts like a 10 year old boy, when he gets asked about a girl:

-So…who’s Ottilia?
-Ottilia? Who’s Ottilia? Well, she lives in Cragstead, and she’s… kind of beautiful. I mean sweet. She’s nice. Okay?
-Sounds like you’re sweet on her. Talk to you later.

I really don’t understand who the writers have in mind, when they write this? There was a topic a while back, where players could write their age, and the majority of people who wrote in that topic were over 25 years old. This sentence sounds like it was written to an audience of 8-12 year olds. Why couldn’t they have written something on the lines of this:

-Who’s Ottilia?
-Ottilia? She’s the girl I grew up with. We’ve always been close. I asked her father permission to marry her, but…he said I wasn’t worthy yet. Maybe now I can prove to him, that I am. If they are still alive..
-I am sure they are. We will find them.

Except that people who are good at one thing, or even great at one thing aren’t always good at other things.

I can make a great argument for a great warrior, who is emotionally not really experience, who’s shy around women, or who just has no experience. Hell, I know people like this in real life. They just never got the opposite sex. Experience didn’t favor them.

It’s really not that implausible. Not to me anyway.

Because if WoW proved anything, it’s that you can take someone elses universe, change a few names, add kitten humor, make it even more cartoony, and make bajillions.

Kasama.8941:

Emmet.2943:

You liked the teen drama story of who can act the least mature in a situation that needs maturity, thought, and the ability to not waste time on stupid arguments(excluding Eir and Caithe the only 2 that actually had a level head and tried to get things done making them believable as leaders of their society). High school and middle school must of been a blast for you. Eir and Caithe were like the teachers trying to get the students to shut up and listen so they might actually get things done.

Are you trying to say that grownups can’t be stubborn or ignorant? Because you are greatly mistaken then. Destiny’s Edge aren’t exactly mad at each other over “who gets to go to the prom”. Someone died that shouldn’t had died. People in the real world get separated over less then that..

On topic: I was actually really starting to like the Flame & Frost story. Braham is pictured to be this tough norn, who’s the son of Eir, which fits for most of his story. But then at the end of his story, when you talk to Braham, he suddenly acts like a 10 year old boy, when he gets asked about a girl:

-So…who’s Ottilia?
-Ottilia? Who’s Ottilia? Well, she lives in Cragstead, and she’s… kind of beautiful. I mean sweet. She’s nice. Okay?
-Sounds like you’re sweet on her. Talk to you later.

I really don’t understand who the writers have in mind, when they write this? There was a topic a while back, where players could write their age, and the majority of people who wrote in that topic were over 25 years old. This sentence sounds like it was written to an audience of 8-12 year olds. Why couldn’t they have written something on the lines of this:

-Who’s Ottilia?
-Ottilia? She’s the girl I grew up with. We’ve always been close. I asked her father permission to marry her, but…he said I wasn’t worthy yet. Maybe now I can prove to him, that I am. If they are still alive..
-I am sure they are. We will find them.

Just imagine the fun if he burst into song!

-Who’s Ottilia?

-There’s a stead in the Shiverpeaks
In some crags, where the wind often shrieks
And the snow sometimes falls for weeks
But it’s what I call home

And there’s a girl in this frozen place
Oh so sweet with such a lovely face
And I long to feel her warm embrace
But her father hates my guts

I say there Ottilia, you’re a fine girl! (You’re a fine girl)
What a good wife you would be! (Such a fine girl!)
But your dad is just a big kitten who hates me!

Tachenon.5270:

Kasama.8941:

Emmet.2943:

You liked the teen drama story of who can act the least mature in a situation that needs maturity, thought, and the ability to not waste time on stupid arguments(excluding Eir and Caithe the only 2 that actually had a level head and tried to get things done making them believable as leaders of their society). High school and middle school must of been a blast for you. Eir and Caithe were like the teachers trying to get the students to shut up and listen so they might actually get things done.

Are you trying to say that grownups can’t be stubborn or ignorant? Because you are greatly mistaken then. Destiny’s Edge aren’t exactly mad at each other over “who gets to go to the prom”. Someone died that shouldn’t had died. People in the real world get separated over less then that..

On topic: I was actually really starting to like the Flame & Frost story. Braham is pictured to be this tough norn, who’s the son of Eir, which fits for most of his story. But then at the end of his story, when you talk to Braham, he suddenly acts like a 10 year old boy, when he gets asked about a girl:

-So…who’s Ottilia?
-Ottilia? Who’s Ottilia? Well, she lives in Cragstead, and she’s… kind of beautiful. I mean sweet. She’s nice. Okay?
-Sounds like you’re sweet on her. Talk to you later.

I really don’t understand who the writers have in mind, when they write this? There was a topic a while back, where players could write their age, and the majority of people who wrote in that topic were over 25 years old. This sentence sounds like it was written to an audience of 8-12 year olds. Why couldn’t they have written something on the lines of this:

-Who’s Ottilia?
-Ottilia? She’s the girl I grew up with. We’ve always been close. I asked her father permission to marry her, but…he said I wasn’t worthy yet. Maybe now I can prove to him, that I am. If they are still alive..
-I am sure they are. We will find them.

Just imagine the fun if he burst into song!

-Who’s Ottilia?

-There’s a stead in the Shiverpeaks
In some crags, where the wind often shrieks
And the snow sometimes falls for weeks
But it’s what I call home

And there’s a girl in this frozen place
Oh so sweet with such a lovely face
And I long to feel her warm embrace
But her father hates my guts

I say there Ottilia, you’re a fine girl! (You’re a fine girl)
What a good wife you would be! (Such a fine girl!)
But your dad is just a big kitten who hates me!

Just want you to know I found myself humming your song to a nice medieval tavern beat. That’s just cruel man, going to be humming this all day.

Vayne.8563:

Except that people who are good at one thing, or even great at one thing aren’t always good at other things.

I can make a great argument for a great warrior, who is emotionally not really experience, who’s shy around women, or who just has no experience. Hell, I know people like this in real life. They just never got the opposite sex. Experience didn’t favor them.

It’s really not that implausible. Not to me anyway.

I understand that. But you have to write in relation to the story. In the words of Tom Clancy; The difference between fiction and reality, is that fiction has to make sense. So when you got this great warrior who’s the son of Eir, and who has slain a ton of monsters, this awkward conversation comes off as being out of character. Because there is no background depicted for Braham, that leads us to think, that this sudden shyness is normal for him. Everything up to that moment has lead us to think, that this is a strong character, who doesn’t fear anything.

Kasama.8941:

Vayne.8563:

Except that people who are good at one thing, or even great at one thing aren’t always good at other things.

I can make a great argument for a great warrior, who is emotionally not really experience, who’s shy around women, or who just has no experience. Hell, I know people like this in real life. They just never got the opposite sex. Experience didn’t favor them.

It’s really not that implausible. Not to me anyway.

I understand that. But you have to write in relation to the story. In the words of Tom Clancy; The difference between fiction and reality, is that fiction has to make sense. So when you got this great warrior who’s the son of Eir, and who has slain a ton of monsters, this awkward conversation comes off as being out of character. Because there is no background depicted for Braham, that leads us to think, that this sudden shyness is normal for him. Everything up to that moment has lead us to think, that this is a strong character, who doesn’t fear anything.

I disagree. The fact is, what you’re hearing, that conversation IS the background. We know he’s a warrior dude. We know he’s Eir’s son. We know nothing about his history with romance or women (but nothing would surprise me about a Norn). His comments is the writer’s way of introducing that side of him. We haven’t been exposed to that side of him before because, understandably, he’s preoccupied with getting help and fighting. Only after the imminent danger is past does he return to this other matter. Also, perhaps trusting the character more now that we’ve fought beside him.

When authors are taught to write, they always say show, don’t tell. In this case, his dialogue shows us who he is, since we haven’t really seen him in any kind of normal situation.

You had another view of him in your mind, but what’s been done here isn’t unreasonable.

It’s actually a pretty common theme to have the fearless warrior be afraid of something … very normal, or being shy around women. I did not perceive that part as being out of character, instead more of an addition. Poor lad grew up without his mom. Not every though as nails guy has to be a macho on top.

Vayne.8563:

I disagree. The fact is, what you’re hearing, that conversation IS the background. We know he’s a warrior dude. We know he’s Eir’s son. We know nothing about his history with romance or women (but nothing would surprise me about a Norn). His comments is the writer’s way of introducing that side of him. We haven’t been exposed to that side of him before because, understandably, he’s preoccupied with getting help and fighting. Only after the imminent danger is past does he return to this other matter. Also, perhaps trusting the character more now that we’ve fought beside him.

When authors are taught to write, they always say show, don’t tell. In this case, his dialogue shows us who he is, since we haven’t really seen him in any kind of normal situation.

You had another view of him in your mind, but what’s been done here isn’t unreasonable.

Everything that a character goes through, is a representation of who he or she is. Braham is not just a warrior. He is depicted as someone who isn’t afraid of facing other people. He talks to both Rytlock, Knut, and Eir, while standing up to them. At this point, he is presented as being somewhat over-confident, and not afraid to say, or follow through with, what’s on his mind. This isn’t something I’ve come up with, this is the tone of the conversations we have witnessed. That’s not to say he couldn’t be insecure about love, but he defiantly doesn’t come of as a shy character. Even something like this would had sounded a lot better:

-So who’s Ottilia?
-Ottilia? She’s…just a girl I grew up with. I’ve always looked after her, but she’s never really noticed me.
-Sounds like she means a lot to you.

This could also represent a sense of insecurity, but without going against what we’ve already been presented with.

I love the tongue in cheek vibe of GW2. A sense of humor in any situation is not a bad thing. RL or Gaming.

Kasama.8941:

(…)
-So who’s Ottilia?
-Ottilia? She’s…just a girl I grew up with. I’ve always looked after her, but she’s never really noticed me.
-Sounds like she means a lot to you.

This could also represent a sense of insecurity, but without going against what we’ve already been presented with.

No, it would show someone who is in far better control about his emotions than our “hero”. He is young, hot blooded, inexperienced but full of righteousness. Someone who does not understand larger concepts, otherwise he would have not barged into Rytlocks office like that.
He grew up without his mother – most often/traditionally the person you can be emotional with growing up – the person who will comfort you.

At large, to maybe get back on topic, I would say that the whole storyline itself is not particularly goofy.

Aeonblade.8709:

Tachenon.5270:

Kasama.8941:

Emmet.2943:

You liked the teen drama story of who can act the least mature in a situation that needs maturity, thought, and the ability to not waste time on stupid arguments(excluding Eir and Caithe the only 2 that actually had a level head and tried to get things done making them believable as leaders of their society). High school and middle school must of been a blast for you. Eir and Caithe were like the teachers trying to get the students to shut up and listen so they might actually get things done.

Are you trying to say that grownups can’t be stubborn or ignorant? Because you are greatly mistaken then. Destiny’s Edge aren’t exactly mad at each other over “who gets to go to the prom”. Someone died that shouldn’t had died. People in the real world get separated over less then that..

On topic: I was actually really starting to like the Flame & Frost story. Braham is pictured to be this tough norn, who’s the son of Eir, which fits for most of his story. But then at the end of his story, when you talk to Braham, he suddenly acts like a 10 year old boy, when he gets asked about a girl:

-So…who’s Ottilia?
-Ottilia? Who’s Ottilia? Well, she lives in Cragstead, and she’s… kind of beautiful. I mean sweet. She’s nice. Okay?
-Sounds like you’re sweet on her. Talk to you later.

I really don’t understand who the writers have in mind, when they write this? There was a topic a while back, where players could write their age, and the majority of people who wrote in that topic were over 25 years old. This sentence sounds like it was written to an audience of 8-12 year olds. Why couldn’t they have written something on the lines of this:

-Who’s Ottilia?
-Ottilia? She’s the girl I grew up with. We’ve always been close. I asked her father permission to marry her, but…he said I wasn’t worthy yet. Maybe now I can prove to him, that I am. If they are still alive..
-I am sure they are. We will find them.

Just imagine the fun if he burst into song!

-Who’s Ottilia?

-There’s a stead in the Shiverpeaks
In some crags, where the wind often shrieks
And the snow sometimes falls for weeks
But it’s what I call home

And there’s a girl in this frozen place
Oh so sweet with such a lovely face
And I long to feel her warm embrace
But her father hates my guts

I say there Ottilia, you’re a fine girl! (You’re a fine girl)
What a good wife you would be! (Such a fine girl!)
But your dad is just a big kitten who hates me!

Just want you to know I found myself humming your song to a nice medieval tavern beat. That’s just cruel man, going to be humming this all day.

Try it to this instead.

The silly aspect is definitely overwhelming. It’s so intrusive that I have little to no concern for any of the characters in the game.

If the story is to have any emotional value, then more realism must be introduced into the story. This isn’t just about the serious nature of reality, but also the diversity – which we don’t see much of in the characters.

A good story will make you care. A better story will make you question your own mindset and truly test your emotions.

I agree 100%. I feel like they made this game so light-hearted and jokey to appeal to kids.

Goose.5196:

I agree 100%. I feel like they made this game so light-hearted and jokey to appeal to kids.

It’s not just kids; it’s also Disney adults.

Blackmoon.6837:

A good story will make you care. A better story will make you question your own mindset and truly test your emotions.

Not exactly…

A good story will merely keep you invested for a time, and allow you to relax without questioning it. It’s pure entertainment, a relaxing experience you can let go of stress over and allow your mind to slow down and just process subconscious bits and pieces which otherwise clog your thoughts all day.

A great story will not only do all the above, but lead you to actively consider aspects of the fiction which were not in evidence . . . to reason and build your own thoughts around where the story ended or began, to inspire your creativity. You don’t merely relax and watch, you feel like it’s real and start to wonder about details you normally would leave alone.

Emotional connection, or intellectual challenge, or assaulting preconceptions are not always a part of a great story, however. You don’t need them to be a great story, and it can fool people into thinking a “good” story or less is actually a great story.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Blackmoon.6837:

A good story will make you care. A better story will make you question your own mindset and truly test your emotions.

Not exactly…

A good story will merely keep you invested for a time, and allow you to relax without questioning it. It’s pure entertainment, a relaxing experience you can let go of stress over and allow your mind to slow down and just process subconscious bits and pieces which otherwise clog your thoughts all day.

A great story will not only do all the above, but lead you to actively consider aspects of the fiction which were not in evidence . . . to reason and build your own thoughts around where the story ended or began, to inspire your creativity. You don’t merely relax and watch, you feel like it’s real and start to wonder about details you normally would leave alone.

Emotional connection, or intellectual challenge, or assaulting preconceptions are not always a part of a great story, however. You don’t need them to be a great story, and it can fool people into thinking a “good” story or less is actually a great story.

Simple things amuse simple minds.

You can make a child laugh by doing funny faces. Conversely certain adults can be quite entertained by the most childish things.

Calae.1738:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Blackmoon.6837:

A good story will make you care. A better story will make you question your own mindset and truly test your emotions.

Not exactly…

A good story will merely keep you invested for a time, and allow you to relax without questioning it. It’s pure entertainment, a relaxing experience you can let go of stress over and allow your mind to slow down and just process subconscious bits and pieces which otherwise clog your thoughts all day.

A great story will not only do all the above, but lead you to actively consider aspects of the fiction which were not in evidence . . . to reason and build your own thoughts around where the story ended or began, to inspire your creativity. You don’t merely relax and watch, you feel like it’s real and start to wonder about details you normally would leave alone.

Emotional connection, or intellectual challenge, or assaulting preconceptions are not always a part of a great story, however. You don’t need them to be a great story, and it can fool people into thinking a “good” story or less is actually a great story.

Simple things amuse simple minds.

You can make a child laugh by doing funny faces. Conversely certain adults can be quite entertained by the most childish things.

. . . trust me, I know. I live with someone who is endlessly amused and entertained by “Meet the Spartans.”

. . . me? I find “Doctor Who” more interesting and entertaining. I blame David Tennant.

I feel same way about just about every other game out there. why do they gotta be m rated all the time. I like a bit of dark storyline as much as the next person but why does everything have to be swearing/cussing and fart/sex jokes all the time? and women always wearing “sexy” clothes and looking like they only exist to please men grr I find that immature and lamee. Seems every other game out there is marketed towards 12 year olds who camp in call of duty and say “i own you b****” everytime they manage to kill someone with their “1337” skills.

Just did a run of CoF story for the first time, and it was far from goofy if you ask me.

They’re are goofy things but whatever, the game was made by people like you and me, and they made the game they want, and im sure they had fun making those goofy parts, so more power to them, the game is fun, and thats all that matters.

I would like to see more monster types, and more kitten looking gear, i think that would give it the little serious edge it needs

darkdomino.9578:

I would have been much more receptive to some mature writing that actually treats the audience like they’ve got an above-average IQ.

unfortunately its a statistical fact that the majority of people in the world have a below intelligent IQ level.

If you think I am making it up simply google the statistics on it.

You will easily find the facts that point to the majority of adults functioning on an 8th grade education level and the average IQ being 100 or lower.

If you actually are intelligent, and not someone who just thinks they are, then you are actually in the minority.