Guild Wars 2

Ice cream is your friend. Karma food is the new magic find ya’all. It adds up in the end.

Buttercup.5871:

Ice cream is your friend. Karma food is the new magic find ya’all. It adds up in the end.

Agreed, but most wont.

Most people only used karma boosts to stack them all at once and funnel in all their karma consumables in one big keg-stand.

People will think using these boosts just to farm crappy event karma is stupid.

Chickenshoes.6250:

Buttercup.5871:

Ice cream is your friend. Karma food is the new magic find ya’all. It adds up in the end.

Agreed, but most wont.

Most people only used karma boosts to stack them all at once and funnel in all their karma consumables in one big keg-stand.

Me included. But people need to adapt and think ahead. Karma will once more become a necessary but rare’ish currency. Like laurels, it’s banked time.

It’s easy OP, the answer is…

Grinding. You know, the thing they lied about ? Well they want you to throw your life doing this in the hope of something great at the end…which never comes. Ah well.

Chickenshoes.6250:

Because karma is a good method to quantify general effort.

Gold doesn’t represent effort. It can be earned all sorts of different ways, grinding, buying, market-milking, or getting a stupid lucky precursor drop. Tokens are specific to one section of content.

In other words It’s perfect for the grind

When you’re thinking “accumulate over time” you mean laurels. That’s the currency that just rolls in for doing dailies. There’s no need for a green and pink flavor of the same thing.

No, I meant exactly what I said. If you liked events you would gain karma, If you focused on your daily you would gain karma, if you did dungeons you would gain karma etc.
In other words you would gain karma through different ways of playing and enjoying the game. Now it has become narrower

•Liquid Karma dropped from dungeon end chests have been replaced with Empyreal Fragments

•Drips of Liquid Karma from champion loot bags have been replaced with Piles of Bloodstone Dust.

I get that you don’t think there is a need for a green and pink flavor. I on the other hand don’t think there is a need to add more grind.

Solid Gold.9310:

Kaizer.7135:

Because we’re gonna have to buy important stuff with Karma soon I’d wager, so they want us to grind more.

Yes there’s a plan behind this that we don’t know about yet.

It may well involve the “cash shop”.

Well if thats true they can go kitten themselves.

fungihoujo.8476:

I think that’s a bit of a conspiracy theory there, suggesting that they are gating karma hardcore just to keep people playing longer.

I think it’s far more likely that karma jugs will be on the gem store soon, but they didn’t want to make this karma nerf at the same time or people would quickly come to that conclusion. I’m thinking November or December- karma jugs on gem store.

Uhm have you actually looked at how long it’s going to take to get enough mats from playing the game for the new tier of crafting. At this point it stops being a conspiracy theory and starts being a fact. Time-gating is what they are good at just look at LS and how that was done and how people can’t experience that content again because it’s gone. That too is evidence.

Reducing the karma is only part of the scheme.

I hate that they made the game about grinding and it’s amazing to me that some people can’t see that. And I’m a farmer! That’s all I do is login gather mats and even I know this is overboard on the grind! Seriously.

I’d have to say that -while some reining in needed to be done- the current fraction is a bit overkill. Here’s the thing, if you look at most in-game “nerfs,” we can generally say the same thing. It’s one thing to go “Hmmm, there’s a lotta Karma runnin around out there, we need to lower it a bit.” However, an almost 90% factor isn’t “a bit,” it’s a crapload.

The only thing I can -sans tinfoil hat- think, is that they might be fine-tuning exactly how far down they want the Karma gain ratio to go. If that’s the case, we should see
some increase in later months. As it is now … between the current gain-rate and this game’s obsession with RNG, I don’t honestly know if I care to bother with that Bifrost I wanted to put on my Mesmer. Meh. I probably still will, since it’d be the one piece of his kit that won’t become invalid due to future nerfage.

fungihoujo.8476:

I think that’s a bit of a conspiracy theory there, suggesting that they are gating karma hardcore just to keep people playing longer.

I think it’s far more likely that karma jugs will be on the gem store soon, but they didn’t want to make this karma nerf at the same time or people would quickly come to that conclusion. I’m thinking November or December- karma jugs on gem store.

It will never happen. Karma jugs in the gem store would be directly linked to buying power since it’s (now) used as a means to get a some what main ingredient for crafting ascended weapons and you can buy full sets of (for the time being) the best gear available.

I fail to see the problem. 1 million karma is nothing. They never should have added karma at all to dailies. There was no karma daily reward at launch and people still got legendary weapons within 2 months. Go run events. The karma piles up fast. Use a karma infusion and karma food with a guild banner and a guild buff and a karma boost. 500+ karma per event.

Can someone clarify what happened to karma consumables? Did they remove them from dailies and monthly?

Anet: If you did, shame on you! We need that karma for alts!!!!

edit: so I just checked…. 600 karma consumable instead of 6750 one? you say that it is balanced to get one 50 luck item which can be acquired from some cheap masterwork instead of 6150 karma?
This was bad idea and I think the players want rather karma jug than this piece of nothing… at least give us Gulp of Karma, I think that is reasonable

so. 6150 karma was traded for 50 luck.
I don’t need luck.
Please, ANET, turn all of my 65% luck into karma for at the same ratio, and turn any luck i gain into karma instead.

Watch this space.

Karma was mostly useless. It may not be that way anymore sometimes soon.

tigirius.9014:

fungihoujo.8476:

I think that’s a bit of a conspiracy theory there, suggesting that they are gating karma hardcore just to keep people playing longer.

I think it’s far more likely that karma jugs will be on the gem store soon, but they didn’t want to make this karma nerf at the same time or people would quickly come to that conclusion. I’m thinking November or December- karma jugs on gem store.

Uhm have you actually looked at how long it’s going to take to get enough mats from playing the game for the new tier of crafting. At this point it stops being a conspiracy theory and starts being a fact. Time-gating is what they are good at just look at LS and how that was done and how people can’t experience that content again because it’s gone. That too is evidence.

Reducing the karma is only part of the scheme.

I hate that they made the game about grinding and it’s amazing to me that some people can’t see that. And I’m a farmer! That’s all I do is login gather mats and even I know this is overboard on the grind! Seriously.

I too am a solo farmer and the perfect provable example of Karma being turned into a grind-fest is the change to the dailies karma acquisition going from 5000 to 600(big grind to make up the difference).

Ichishi.9613:

so. 6150 karma was traded for 50 luck.
I don’t need luck.
Please, ANET, turn all of my 65% luck into karma for at the same ratio, and turn any luck i gain into karma instead.

Are we asking ANET to play fair?

Machiavel.6042:

It’s easy OP, the answer is…

Grinding. You know, the thing they lied about ? Well they want you to throw your life doing this in the hope of something great at the end…which never comes. Ah well.

True dat

This has concerned me as well. I can understand the move so that karma bonuses don’t affect consumables anymore. Fine. I also understand the removal for failed events. Ok then. But the daily, monthly, and dungeon removals? Really Anet? This very much sucks!

fellyn.5083:

fungihoujo.8476:

I think that’s a bit of a conspiracy theory there, suggesting that they are gating karma hardcore just to keep people playing longer.

I think it’s far more likely that karma jugs will be on the gem store soon, but they didn’t want to make this karma nerf at the same time or people would quickly come to that conclusion. I’m thinking November or December- karma jugs on gem store.

It will never happen. Karma jugs in the gem store would be directly linked to buying power since it’s (now) used as a means to get a some what main ingredient for crafting ascended weapons and you can buy full sets of (for the time being) the best gear available.

I’d like to contest this point.

ANET was very smart in doing one thing above ALL others, and that was making Gems and Gold interconvertible. Obviously. This means that you can purchase things off the gem store without ever having to spend a cent, and in this way, they’ve actually made themselves for the major part immune to the term “P2W”. There’s always the counter argument that you can get gems if you work hard enough – their argument, not mine. And as long as this is the case, no matter how horrid the conversation rate becomes, you will literally never be able to call them p2w because this counterstatement will be stalking around.

I remember when i made my legendary i had to grind karma all day in orr going from event to event… no karma jugs or stuff like that oh well…

And you think playing 5-6 hours a day during 2-3 month to get 1 piece of legendary is normal?

I am quite put off by the change of daily and monthly rewards to remove Karma as well as the other changes in the game. I really really really don’t care whatsoever about getting ‘essence of luck’ from dailies and monthlies. Particularly, when the amount gained is less than I make in ONE minute just walking around the game world. Seriously, the daily and monthly rewards are terrible now. Only thing still useful is the laurels and even those are bugged now. I can make more Karma and 100x more essence of luck doing one run of fractals than completing a monthly that takes much much longer. It’s a terrible change and demotivates for caring about monthlies.

I always felt Karma was the most balanced currency in the game. It still is; however, it’s value has been substantially changed. And, I feel it is for the worse.

As a diverse currency, Karma, was a perfect metric for committed gameplay and rewarded players in ways they could choose freely. Needed a little gold boost? Orrian Jewelry Boxes. Needed some clovers? Obsidian shards. Needed a good set of starter exotic armor? Orr temple vendors. The list goes on.

Karma is a great, fair, currency of which the benefits were balanced but are now simply un-fun and trivial. The starter exotics are over-priced now. The Orrian boxes don’t pay back enough to be worth it comparatively to other options available. Basically, it’s all about obsidian shards now… You simply must save every single drop of Karma you get for current or future obsidian shard needs (given all the need in ascended and legendary crafting).

Kiss those nice racial skins goodbye… They are too high a cost to risk with the intensely growing need for obsidian shards (you think it’s bad now? Wait until ascended armor drops in a month or two).

Thanks for ruining the only fun, fair and robust currency in the game, Anet.

This doesn’t hurt the players who are able to laser focus goals.

This hurts the players, new and old, who use karma for what can be called “The Starter Exotics”. This hurts players who actually like Cultural Weapons. This hurts players who want to craft ascended ON THE ROAD TO LEGENDARY.

Once again, artificial barriers like this aren’t going to make people play more. It just limits the distance between what a player wants to do and what they have to do. I like this game, but certain decisions lately have made start to look elsewhere.

As far as exotics being easy to get, well…that’s actually something I like. Not only do I like to play alts, but I like playing different builds. Reason I stayed on with Guild Wars after beating prophecies back when. Had so many possibilities. If you wanted to listen to the WoW crowd(I played that for 5years also), you should have just copied their design.
So, while we are listening to that type of player…can we get healers/Raids/Mounts?

Akari Storm.6809:

This doesn’t hurt the players who are able to laser focus goals.

This hurts the players, new and old, who use karma for what can be called “The Starter Exotics”. This hurts players who actually like Cultural Weapons. This hurts players who want to craft ascended ON THE ROAD TO LEGENDARY.

Once again, artificial barriers like this aren’t going to make people play more. It just limits the distance between what a player wants to do and what they have to do. I like this game, but certain decisions lately have made start to look elsewhere.

As far as exotics being easy to get, well…that’s actually something I like. Not only do I like to play alts, but I like playing different builds. Reason I stayed on with Guild Wars after beating prophecies back when. Had so many possibilities. If you wanted to listen to the WoW crowd(I played that for 5years also), you should have just copied their design.
So, while we are listening to that type of player…can we get healers/Raids/Mounts?

Minion Necro LFR Balthazar40 no noobs pls.

Sure after gearing up 8 alts I did begin to collect some excess karma. But, I would hate to be a new player with the reduced karma income. It is, of course, a bad move, one made by developers out of touch with the actual game.

Was nerf really to make karma more meanigfull? Because for casual players it made karma even more meaningless than before, they cant even use it to get temple armors. Well… ok they can, 70 dailies for one piece.

Karma is broken, now

someone will say i qq, but after karma nerf, i renewed my subscription in wow. I wanted to level warrior, which would be my second character, but if i level it during a week for 4-5 hours, now i will play guild wars only 10-15 minutes maximum a day.

How are new players going to be able to afford expensive cultural weapons now.

By doing Dynamic Events? (oh, and succeeding, but that’s generally so trivial a proposition I shouldn’t need to add that caveat).

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I had way too much Karma, that I was running out of things to use it on. Over 7 million from the start of the game until now. And that’s only a fraction of the Karma gains of some players.

I’m glad they reduced the output. With Karma being so easy to get, it made it less desirable to get. Plus, now that there’s no Karma gain from failed events, that gives more incentive to people to actually succeed for the awards.

I say “Good Job” Anet. A well welcomed change.

I said in my original post that I understand that Karma is was trivial and easy to get with no real investment targets apart from Obsidian shards. However this is Arenanet killing a fly with an AA turret. There would be a lot of simpler and less drastic solutions available for different problems that karma might have

1) People are using Karma to gain gold, which is against the principle of Karma
Solution: Make Orrian jewelry boxes more expensive, or reduce the amount of karma that can be gained from the boxes. The karma armors are already unsellable, unforgeable and unsalvageable precisely to prevent karma-to-gold schenanigans. I had a situation many times that I bought one box with the remaining karma I had and could buy 3 more boxes by just drinking the karma consumables I got from the first box. Or, redesign the whole content of the boxes. More expensive boxes with a chance for an account bound unique skin? Making unidentifiable objects less valuable for vendors?

2) People don’t feel karma is valuable
Well it sure feels kitten valuable now. It was a good thing imo to add obsidian shards to the crafting to give people incentive to use karma outside of legendary crafting process but not a good idea when you essentially cut people completely off of karma. If we get ~350 karma for completing an event in Orr it will require 6 completed events to just buy 1 obsidian shard, and this would take approximately 30 minutes to do. A legendary needs ~500 shards, so dear Arenanet, if you say your game is grind-free, how on earth can you expect legendary crafters to grind for 250 hours to just get a tiny shard of a the weapon?

3) Karma is gained too much compared to the available item selection/pricing
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out the solution to this.
- Karma armor price increase
- more items bought with Karma! more armor, skins, unique consumables, you name it
- slight karma income reduction
You could easily add more karma sinks to the game or regulate the karma tap just a tiny bit instead of deconstructing the whole house with the tap; just making karma consumables unaffected by modifiers and keeping the daily/montly/dungeon rewards intact would have been a good solution, because until the patch people just stacked multiple boosts to gain essentially double the karma from consumables. Also there was a negative effect, people (including me) felt bad when consuming karma items without maxed boosts.

Yup, now I can go say bye-bye to cultural armours, especially to any new character, that might be created. Thank you ,,hardcore,, community for destroing the game mechanic, and thank you that you treat people that has less time and want to play their style as a piece of junk. Thank you Anet for being spineless. I understand, that maybe Anet wants to make us to buy boosters, ok fine, but why rewards had to be nerfed this much ? I was one of the player, that got his cult-wep by dailies and doing events, now instead of calm and rational progress it will be nothing more than over-hour running back and forth, and diminishing returns will not make it easier.

I may be b***ing a little but as for me ,this is a deal-breaker.

As originally published it the 9-3 patch notes -
•Daily and monthly achievement rewards now include Essence of Luck. To offset this, the amount of karma earned from daily and monthly achievements has been reduced.

•Daily and monthly achievement rewards now include Essence of Luck. To offset this, the amount of karma earned from daily and monthly achievements has been gutted like a fish. [FIXED]

So salvaging a few blues and greens is worth the same as 5000+ KARMA.
Can I have the option to salvage blues and greens for that missing karma PLZ?
Seriously this patch just gets worse and worse. First they effectively steal a boatload of Magic Find items by forcing us to duplicate or trash all the soulbound stuff, after stating they would be account bound over and over. Now I learn they trash karma acquisition.

The topper is, now a friend tells me ALL exotic Karma Trinkets and Spineguards are gone from all Temple Vendors in ORR. WHY? To lessen the impact of gutting Karma rewards? I would sure like to be pointed to an official explanation of all this that makes even a little sense.

Karma nerf? Is this real life???? O_O

The whole idea of karma is to allow players to get items without all that grinding. It is the best balance currency for casual players. Why would you guys nerf this???

I love the players trying to defend this action, just because you’re sitting there with a kittenload of karma. It was about time they did something about the karma incomes, that’s for sure. But this… this.. this is a huge step in the wrong direction!

Redo, do right.

Ugh, no wonder I’ve been seeing less Karma come in. If you want to stop karma being changed to gold, nerf the drop rate for whatever is coming out of the boxes that is giving them the gold. Don’t nerf the Karma, especially when new players need it more than the rest of us. :/

With the last patch and now this one I find myself playing the forums more and more, and the game less and less. I have been playing Guild Wars since January of 2006. I pre-purchased and played Guild Wars 2 since beta. This MMO was awesome, but these recent changes are taking the game in the WRONG direction!

fungihoujo.8476:

I think that’s a bit of a conspiracy theory there, suggesting that they are gating karma hardcore just to keep people playing longer.

I think it’s far more likely that karma jugs will be on the gem store soon, but they didn’t want to make this karma nerf at the same time or people would quickly come to that conclusion. I’m thinking November or December- karma jugs on gem store.

Yes, they are preparing for the China release.

olleandersson.9408:

I love the players trying to defend this action, just because you’re sitting there with a kittenload of karma. It was about time they did something about the karma incomes, that’s for sure. But this… this.. this is a huge step in the wrong direction!

it’s basically how it’s been from the start. all the exploiters and grinders got everything and since then everything has been consistently nerfed/shut down so no1 else can do it. ofc all the players who benefited already remain unaffected.

Chickenshoes.6250:

Reesha.7901:

Congrats to you. I have 1.5 million so I am not in any desperate need either right now, but new players are still joining this game.

I don’t mind the karma removal from failed events, but I do feel karma was one of the few things that just came naturally by playing the game. I liked that. It was something that you wouldn’t get over night but something that you would accumulate over time.
With the changes, I think anyone new at the game that desires ascended weapons or a legendary weapon are forced to specifically grind for karma.

I have said it before but I´ll say it again: There is enough things in this game that feels a bit (too) grindy atm. I don’t see why karma should be added to them.

Because karma is a good method to quantify general effort.

Gold doesn’t represent effort. It can be earned all sorts of different ways, grinding, buying, market-milking, or getting a stupid lucky precursor drop. Tokens are specific to one section of content.

In other words It’s perfect for the grind

When you’re thinking “accumulate over time” you mean laurels. That’s the currency that just rolls in for doing dailies. There’s no need for a green and pink flavor of the same thing.

Great points.

Gold is not equitable as it can be bought through real life cash. I agree that Karma should be lessened and reformed so that it reflects real contribution to effort in game.

I still get Karma just by running from point A to B without ever participating in events just passing through.

I have over a million and I don’t have the cash nor the time to use them to craft greater gear.

I think the Karma grievance only affects players who want the gear immediately.

@OP

I agree completely. I hope ANET responds.

I have a couple of thoughts…

Anyone who has a legendary will tell you…with the current available karma output, getting a legendary will be all but impossible. Well…not completely impossible, but the amount of grind involved would be absolutely mind numbing…far more misery than 99% would endure. I have a legendary, and nearly all the million plus karma that took came from dungeons, dailies, and monthlies. With the sources available now, I would not even start because I know I would burn out looong before I got there.

Could that be Anet’s goal? Fewer legendaries? Seems senseless but obby shards are really the only thing for which karma was essential…

My other thought….why does Anet almost never address questions like the OP posted in this thread? An Anet rep will weigh in on the most trivial threads, but questions like this one….that I KNOW a lot of players would like some perspective on…will almost certainly be ignored.

I have a legendary, and I remember having more than enough karma to get one before they shoveled karma at me for the dailies and monthlies. Without going to Orr and running up and down the map.

I don’t think it’s a bad idea for karma to once again represent what you gain from events. If these things were meant to be gained from what you get daily, they’d cost laurels not karma.

And devs often avoid addressing dialogue directly because it would not solve things any faster to do so, and it would only breed ill-will.

BilboBaggins.5620:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I had way too much Karma, that I was running out of things to use it on. Over 7 million from the start of the game until now. And that’s only a fraction of the Karma gains of some players.

I’m glad they reduced the output. With Karma being so easy to get, it made it less desirable to get. Plus, now that there’s no Karma gain from failed events, that gives more incentive to people to actually succeed for the awards.

I say “Good Job” Anet. A well welcomed change.

I have no problem with removing karma reward from failed events, but we all don’t have 7 million karma and the nerf to dailies and monthlies is ridiculous imho.

AKA- I already have an ungodly amount of karma, so don’t let any new players ever be able to have a fraction of the karma they’ll need to obtain things.

fungihoujo.8476:

BilboBaggins.5620:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I had way too much Karma, that I was running out of things to use it on. Over 7 million from the start of the game until now. And that’s only a fraction of the Karma gains of some players.

I’m glad they reduced the output. With Karma being so easy to get, it made it less desirable to get. Plus, now that there’s no Karma gain from failed events, that gives more incentive to people to actually succeed for the awards.

I say “Good Job” Anet. A well welcomed change.

I have no problem with removing karma reward from failed events, but we all don’t have 7 million karma and the nerf to dailies and monthlies is ridiculous imho.

AKA- I already have an ungodly amount of karma, so don’t let any new players ever be able to have a fraction of the karma they’ll need to obtain things.

No, I don’t have an ungodly amount, and I’m against this nerf. The amount you get from failed events is minimal so I doubt anyone will notice them one way or the other.

I don’t think the two posters above me fully understood eachother’s statements ^

Possible fix: Add a 0 to the end of successful event’s Karma reward.
20-400 becomes 200-4000.

Infernia.9847:

Possible fix: Add a 0 to the end of successful event’s Karma reward.
20-400 becomes 200-4000.

That’s way too much, What A-Net had before was fine IMO, but they just went too far trying to nerf it, people who played for a few months with no clear karma goal would end up with a mountain of unused karma. I understand what they were going for nerfing the jugs, but they went too far by making the daily amount too low for people needing them and removing dungeon karma completely, thus making the karma progress slow as hell compared to before.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I had way too much Karma, that I was running out of things to use it on. Over 7 million from the start of the game until now. And that’s only a fraction of the Karma gains of some players.

I’m glad they reduced the output. With Karma being so easy to get, it made it less desirable to get. Plus, now that there’s no Karma gain from failed events, that gives more incentive to people to actually succeed for the awards.

I say “Good Job” Anet. A well welcomed change.

lol i really pity those new players. Srsly.

Masyaf.6873:

And you think playing 5-6 hours a day during 2-3 month to get 1 piece of legendary is normal?

Nope it’s not normal, it’s a massive grindfest.

That’s why I won’t be doing it.

Imagine recommending this game to a friend and getting them started fresh in game today.

“You will need 500K Karma for the 2nd top tier items (Exotics) and you get 600 per day so….yeah good luck with that”.