Guild Wars 2

Hey guys, so I want opinions. I understand the reasons for bolts of damas being as expensive as they are, but do you think they’ll ever drop in price? The main reason I’m wondering is because I’m considering making a full set of ascended light armor eventually, so I’ve quit making zojjas insignias for profit and instead started saving all the spools of silk weaving thread I make daily while I decide how I want to go about this. If damask is likely going to stay steady in price, then I should just start making it now. If, however, damask will eventually fall in price, I should continue selling damask and just buy damask whenever it drops in price. Opinions?

depends. Do you think silk will drop in price considerably?

The only way I can imagine it happening is if expansion brings new ascendeds that need completely different crafting materials.

When everyone has ascended armour sure.

Yes, they will drop in price.

. . . by a lot? Probably not.

Yargesh.4965:

When everyone has ascended armour sure.

The problem is when that happens, the price drop for Damask caused by less demand will be offset by less people farming cloth because it’s high in price at the moment.

Damask will only drop in price if Anet gave us a mean to reliably harvest cloth, like we can harvest wood and metal. For example being able to harvest flax, cotton, etc. from the ground and then craft it to bolts (because crafting into scraps makes no sense).

Fixing their mistake of requiring 100 bolts of silk instead the standard 50 would obviously help some.

It will drop to the price of the other ascended materials when Guild Wars 3 launches.

Tom Gore.4035:

Yargesh.4965:

When everyone has ascended armour sure.

The problem is when that happens, the price drop for Damask caused by less demand will be offset by less people farming cloth because it’s high in price at the moment.

Damask will only drop in price if Anet gave us a mean to reliably harvest cloth, like we can harvest wood and metal. For example being able to harvest flax, cotton, etc. from the ground and then craft it to bolts (because crafting into scraps makes no sense).

I am guaranteed silk from armour, can’t see what benefit those nodes would be.

Yargesh.4965:

Tom Gore.4035:

Yargesh.4965:

When everyone has ascended armour sure.

The problem is when that happens, the price drop for Damask caused by less demand will be offset by less people farming cloth because it’s high in price at the moment.

Damask will only drop in price if Anet gave us a mean to reliably harvest cloth, like we can harvest wood and metal. For example being able to harvest flax, cotton, etc. from the ground and then craft it to bolts (because crafting into scraps makes no sense).

I am guaranteed silk from armour, can’t see what benefit those nodes would be.

And you’re guaranteed to get cloth armor drops every time you kill X monster?

That’s what I meant with “reliable”. Hoping for a cloth armor drop is not reliable. And it gets even worse when farming materials below your character level.

Even if everyone had ascended armor they’ll probably keep adding things that use excessive amounts, like the Dwayna backpiece that takes liek 15 days of Damask crafting.

Tom Gore.4035:

Yargesh.4965:

When everyone has ascended armour sure.

The problem is when that happens, the price drop for Damask caused by less demand will be offset by less people farming cloth because it’s high in price at the moment.

Damask will only drop in price if Anet gave us a mean to reliably harvest cloth, like we can harvest wood and metal. For example being able to harvest flax, cotton, etc. from the ground and then craft it to bolts (because crafting into scraps makes no sense).

They need to add fluffy Silkworms I can violently murder and tear the silk from their buttocks. Or let gathering plants have a chance of dropping it silk left by fluffies. Then add some sexy cotton plants and linen and so on. Then allow us to grow all these things in our home by adding a gardening craft after actual player housing is added ._. I can dream right?

I been working on making Ascended armor for my Guardian alt lately and had a buncha Ascended Silk in bank but forgot the insignias are 3 Damask. It’s going to take me a month to finish this. =/

My clothies are gonna be outa luck after this cuz don’t think I’m going to extend that amount of effort for them and just hope non existant armor boxes drop one day with the stats I need. Also god forbid my Thief or Guard ever wanna use a different build and need diff stats… I’m never gonna be able to change my armor.

Tom Gore.4035:

Yargesh.4965:

Tom Gore.4035:

Yargesh.4965:

When everyone has ascended armour sure.

The problem is when that happens, the price drop for Damask caused by less demand will be offset by less people farming cloth because it’s high in price at the moment.

Damask will only drop in price if Anet gave us a mean to reliably harvest cloth, like we can harvest wood and metal. For example being able to harvest flax, cotton, etc. from the ground and then craft it to bolts (because crafting into scraps makes no sense).

I am guaranteed silk from armour, can’t see what benefit those nodes would be.

And you’re guaranteed to get cloth armor drops every time you kill X monster?

That’s what I meant with “reliable”. Hoping for a cloth armor drop is not reliable. And it gets even worse when farming materials below your character level.

Over a days play yes I am absolutely guaranteed cloth drops.

Those were kind of my thoughts too. I mean, looking at forums from a year or nearly two all over, people were predicting damask prices would fall to be close to delcrimor steel ingots or elonian leather squares, but here we are now and damask prices are pretty similar to what they were then. I think it’s possible something could happen with the expansion causing them to drop, but it’s unlikely. I’m not in any huge rush to make ascended, but I’d like to get started, the best route is probably to just keep making the time gated stuff and banking it, right? Btw, a little off topic, but on dulfy, it says it would take 36 days to make all the time gated stuff. However, a full set of ascended takes 36 bolts of damask, right? Wouldn’t that be 36*3 days of making time gated mats? Since each bolt of damask takes 3 spools of silk thread and you can only make one per day?

Yargesh.4965:

Tom Gore.4035:

Yargesh.4965:

Tom Gore.4035:

Yargesh.4965:

When everyone has ascended armour sure.

The problem is when that happens, the price drop for Damask caused by less demand will be offset by less people farming cloth because it’s high in price at the moment.

Damask will only drop in price if Anet gave us a mean to reliably harvest cloth, like we can harvest wood and metal. For example being able to harvest flax, cotton, etc. from the ground and then craft it to bolts (because crafting into scraps makes no sense).

I am guaranteed silk from armour, can’t see what benefit those nodes would be.

And you’re guaranteed to get cloth armor drops every time you kill X monster?

That’s what I meant with “reliable”. Hoping for a cloth armor drop is not reliable. And it gets even worse when farming materials below your character level.

Over a days play yes I am absolutely guaranteed cloth drops.

You still don’t understand what “reliable” means, do you? Yeah, everything averages out in long term, but that’s not “reliable”.

Let’s say I want to farm 100 iron? I harvest the rich iron nodes for 50-60 and then normal nodes for the rest (at 3-4 per node). That takes me less than 30 minutes if I’m quick.

Let’s say I want to farm 100 silk? I kill mobs for thirty minutes and if I’m really, really lucky I have those 100 silk scraps. If not, I might have as little as 20.

Do I need to explain this further? Anything that is based on random drops is by definition not reliable.

Tom Gore.4035:

Yargesh.4965:

Tom Gore.4035:

Yargesh.4965:

Tom Gore.4035:

Yargesh.4965:

When everyone has ascended armour sure.

The problem is when that happens, the price drop for Damask caused by less demand will be offset by less people farming cloth because it’s high in price at the moment.

Damask will only drop in price if Anet gave us a mean to reliably harvest cloth, like we can harvest wood and metal. For example being able to harvest flax, cotton, etc. from the ground and then craft it to bolts (because crafting into scraps makes no sense).

I am guaranteed silk from armour, can’t see what benefit those nodes would be.

And you’re guaranteed to get cloth armor drops every time you kill X monster?

That’s what I meant with “reliable”. Hoping for a cloth armor drop is not reliable. And it gets even worse when farming materials below your character level.

Over a days play yes I am absolutely guaranteed cloth drops.

You still don’t understand what “reliable” means, do you? Yeah, everything averages out in long term, but that’s not “reliable”.

Let’s say I want to farm 100 iron? I harvest the rich iron nodes for 50-60 and then normal nodes for the rest (at 3-4 per node). That takes me less than 30 minutes if I’m quick.

Let’s say I want to farm 100 silk? I kill mobs for thirty minutes and if I’m really, really lucky I have those 100 silk scraps. If not, I might have as little as 20.

Do I need to explain this further? Anything that is based on random drops is by definition not reliable.

Gl with your fixation.

Yargesh.4965:

Tom Gore.4035:

Yargesh.4965:

Tom Gore.4035:

Yargesh.4965:

Tom Gore.4035:

Yargesh.4965:

When everyone has ascended armour sure.

The problem is when that happens, the price drop for Damask caused by less demand will be offset by less people farming cloth because it’s high in price at the moment.

Damask will only drop in price if Anet gave us a mean to reliably harvest cloth, like we can harvest wood and metal. For example being able to harvest flax, cotton, etc. from the ground and then craft it to bolts (because crafting into scraps makes no sense).

I am guaranteed silk from armour, can’t see what benefit those nodes would be.

And you’re guaranteed to get cloth armor drops every time you kill X monster?

That’s what I meant with “reliable”. Hoping for a cloth armor drop is not reliable. And it gets even worse when farming materials below your character level.

Over a days play yes I am absolutely guaranteed cloth drops.

You still don’t understand what “reliable” means, do you? Yeah, everything averages out in long term, but that’s not “reliable”.

Let’s say I want to farm 100 iron? I harvest the rich iron nodes for 50-60 and then normal nodes for the rest (at 3-4 per node). That takes me less than 30 minutes if I’m quick.

Let’s say I want to farm 100 silk? I kill mobs for thirty minutes and if I’m really, really lucky I have those 100 silk scraps. If not, I might have as little as 20.

Do I need to explain this further? Anything that is based on random drops is by definition not reliable.

Gl with your fixation.

Gl with your stubbornness and/or ignorance.

Will they? Lets ask the Magic 8-Ball!

Sure in my ignorance I find that the supply was the problem. We where swimming in silk because we got it so easily. The recipes where created specifically to sop up all the tons of it. Adding additional sources would then just lead to increased requirements. If they wanted more damask they just need to drop how much base material is needed not increase supply of that base material.

Yargesh.4965:

Tom Gore.4035:

Yargesh.4965:

When everyone has ascended armour sure.

The problem is when that happens, the price drop for Damask caused by less demand will be offset by less people farming cloth because it’s high in price at the moment.

Damask will only drop in price if Anet gave us a mean to reliably harvest cloth, like we can harvest wood and metal. For example being able to harvest flax, cotton, etc. from the ground and then craft it to bolts (because crafting into scraps makes no sense).

I am guaranteed silk from armour, can’t see what benefit those nodes would be.

I present to you two scenarios. Tell me if you can see the difference in the two.

Player A needs some linen. He grabs a Harvesting Sickle and heads to a zone where plants drop flax fibers that he can craft into bolts of linen cloth.

Player B needs some linen. He grabs his weapons, armor, and Magic Find consumables and heads to a zone where mobs drop level 50ish gear. He kills mobs. With each kill he’s hoping for loot…armor…light armor…level 50ish light armor.

Silk isn’t the problem, you get loads of that playing in SW. Doing as many defense events as possible for the extra bags + some chest farming will net you a “reliable” amount of silk.

The expansion zones will be only level 80, which means once the expansion hits everyone will have an even higher chance at getting Silk. Remember what happened during Haloween with the lab farming? Silk prices dropped considerably. Probably something similar will happen with Heart of Thorns.

As for Cotton, Linen and Wool? You can use karma to get those and you get enough karma playing in SW (if you don’t just chest farm) and I’m willing to bet the new zones will be packed full with events for even more karma income.

maddoctor.2738:

As for Cotton, Linen and Wool? You can use karma to get those and you get enough karma playing in SW (if you don’t just chest farm) and I’m willing to bet the new zones will be packed full with events for even more karma income.

. . . I’m curious as to how? I know a couple quick ways to ensure Wool and Cotton, but Linen has been an odd one.

darkace.8925:

Player B needs some linen. He grabs his weapons, armor, and Magic Find consumables and heads to a zone where mobs drop level 50ish gear. He kills mobs. With each kill he’s hoping for loot…armor…light armor…level 50ish light armor.

Player B can use karma (that he can get anywhere) to get his Linen rather easily.

Or as an alternative, Player B can open bags (for example from SW) with a level 50 scholar alt, giving very high chances at getting that Linen

Both ways do not require that player to roam a level 50 zone to get it, they can basically do other types of content and not be restricted. Play how you want at it’s best?

Of course more choice would be nice but with the current systems it’s not as hard as poeple making it out to be to get your Linen

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

maddoctor.2738:

As for Cotton, Linen and Wool? You can use karma to get those and you get enough karma playing in SW (if you don’t just chest farm) and I’m willing to bet the new zones will be packed full with events for even more karma income.

. . . I’m curious as to how? I know a couple quick ways to ensure Wool and Cotton, but Linen has been an odd one.

Bloodtide coast light karma gloves, from directly below LA on west side heart.

Yargesh.4965:

Bloodtide coast light karma gloves, from directly below LA on west side heart.

But you can’t outright salvage karma gloves? You’d have to buy four and forge them right?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Yargesh.4965:

Bloodtide coast light karma gloves, from directly below LA on west side heart.

But you can’t outright salvage karma gloves? You’d have to buy four and forge them right?

Yes, use WvW mystic forge. Pop right back to merchant.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

maddoctor.2738:

As for Cotton, Linen and Wool? You can use karma to get those and you get enough karma playing in SW (if you don’t just chest farm) and I’m willing to bet the new zones will be packed full with events for even more karma income.

. . . I’m curious as to how? I know a couple quick ways to ensure Wool and Cotton, but Linen has been an odd one.

NPC in Diessa Plateau just outside the Black citadel sells gloves for karma, you convert those in the MF then salvage the result for Wool

NPC in Bloodtide Coast, just a bit south of LA (where you teach some Quaggan to hunt Crabs) the npc sells gloves for karma, you convert those in the MF then salvage the result for Linen

There is another NPC that sells gloves for Cotton too but I can’t remember where he is, I don’t have access to the game atm.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Yargesh.4965:

Bloodtide coast light karma gloves, from directly below LA on west side heart.

But you can’t outright salvage karma gloves? You’d have to buy four and forge them right?

I usually buy enough gloves in multiples of 4 then go to the nearest MF, either in WvW, or if it’s not available there in LA. Since all karma glove merchants are just outside a city, you can simply run to the MF and back, depending on how long your loading screens are.

And this method is faster than searching for harvest nodes AND you use karma for it which you get everywhere in the game, instead of porting to zones that have the resource you need.

Maddoctor, if Linen and Wool are so easy to get, tell me why they cost way more than Iron, for example?

The numbers don’t lie. There is no reliable way to farm linen and wool. Karma forging and salvaging is both tedious and has a very poor return for the amounts of Karma you spend. Sure, you could argue there aren’t too many uses for Karma currently, as Obsidian shards are dropping more, but that doesn’t change the fact that the return is poor for how long it takes to get the karma.

There is a rather good way to farm wool. And I was sitting on a nice fat pile of Karma until I started making a serious attempt to work up a second character and bought his Temple Armor.

How do you farm wool? Well, there’s some centaur camps in northern Gendarren Fields where supply wagons are parked . . . supply wagons you can kill, and drop a bag of loot every time when they fall apart. Scraps of Wool are in the loot table fairly well-weighted. Not only that but the supply bags off centaurs there also drop Scraps of Wool.

Not that difficult. Or you can promote yourself some Jute – you’re not using it for anything else are you?

. . . also, Iron Ore is heavily inflated due to being used for two tiers of gear outside of Ascended. It’s used in Iron weapons and the following Steel tier; this means you need a lot of Iron Ore to craft up through those two tiers. Hence, it’s more expensive to buy outright.

Again, unless you promote yourself some Copper Ore.

Yet iron still costs way less than linen, because it’s reliably farmable from (rich) iron nodes.

Tom Gore.4035:

Maddoctor, if Linen and Wool are so easy to get, tell me why they cost way more than Iron, for example?

The numbers don’t lie. There is no reliable way to farm linen and wool. Karma forging and salvaging is both tedious and has a very poor return for the amounts of Karma you spend. Sure, you could argue there aren’t too many uses for Karma currently, as Obsidian shards are dropping more, but that doesn’t change the fact that the return is poor for how long it takes to get the karma.

I guess because those who use the karma conversion do it for themselves and not get extra to sell on the TP. That and the fact that not everyone knows about it.

I’d say moving around searching for iron ore nodes is also tedious and forces me to go to zones that have iron instead of playing where I want. I can get karma everywhere.

There are people with milions of karma, if they decided one day they could flood the TP with tailor materials, I guess they simply don’t care.

maddoctor.2738:

Tom Gore.4035:

Maddoctor, if Linen and Wool are so easy to get, tell me why they cost way more than Iron, for example?

The numbers don’t lie. There is no reliable way to farm linen and wool. Karma forging and salvaging is both tedious and has a very poor return for the amounts of Karma you spend. Sure, you could argue there aren’t too many uses for Karma currently, as Obsidian shards are dropping more, but that doesn’t change the fact that the return is poor for how long it takes to get the karma.

I guess because those who use the karma conversion do it for themselves and not get extra to sell on the TP. That and the fact that not everyone knows about it.

I’d say moving around searching for iron ore nodes is also tedious and forces me to go to zones that have iron instead of playing where I want. I can get karma everywhere.

There are people with milions of karma, if they decided one day they could flood the TP with tailor materials, I guess they simply don’t care.

Pretty much this, if for some reason I need a quick couple of gold or I have some silk piled up I do a mats run. Otherwise I have more enjoyable things to do.

Tom Gore.4035:

Yet iron still costs way less than linen, because it’s reliably farmable from (rich) iron nodes.

True, and there’s the other side of it too . . .

Linen is mostly of use two ways – on the tier it’s part of (Tier 4) and in Ascended. Now, I don’t know about you but I found Tier 4 had an anomalously high price point for Fine materials and base materials even.

For instance, Smooth Scale (80 copper) is worth roughly twice as much as Scale (45 copper) and Large Scales are worth 1s 89c. Weird, huh? It’s not like Large Scales tend to fall out of the sky in any high-level zones . . . wait, they kinda do. I literally fill up on them rather consistently. I had more Large Scales than Pristine Snowflakes until I finished up some Crafting disciplines.

But weirder things happen in the metal market. Darksteel Ingots 4s 27c versus Steel Ingots, 4s 42c . . . very weird it costs less for Tier 4 than Tier 3. Even more curious is how Iron Ingots are 4s 7c. Metal is so weird a market, Gold Ore sells at 84c . . . whew, it still makes little sense to me.

Cloth? Oh goodness, no nodes means it’s crazy what happens to it. Jute, Tier 1, is at 1s currently. Seriously.

I don’t know why there was no nodes for cloth materials, I really have no idea. But that and the notion I have of how many light armored classes are out there for farming purposes? I think that’s where a lot of the scarcity comes from. And why Damask is still going to be fairly stable at “oh Dwayna why?” for a long while.

Tom Gore.4035:

Yet iron still costs way less than linen, because it’s reliably farmable from (rich) iron nodes.

And one more thing. The maximum amount of Deldrimor Steel needed for an item is 8. That’s for items that require only Deldrimor Steel for their components, like a Dagger.

You need 90 Iron Ore to craft one Deldrimor Steel Ingot, so we have a total of 270 Iron Ore for the most demanding (in Iron Ore) Weapon in the game.

You need 16 Deldrimor Steel Ingots for a full set of Heavy armor, that’s 1440 Iron Ore

For Medium and Heavy Armor you need 7 + 6*3 = 25 Bolts of Damask, you need 40 Linen scraps per Bolt, that’s 1000 Linen Scraps

So EVERYONE in the game needs a minimum of 1000 Linen scraps while only 2/9 of the professions, that’s 22% require 1440 Iron Ore PLUS that Linen too. The difference in Linen and Iron Ore requirements is staggering.

Light Armor requires a total of 18 + 6*3 = 36 Bolts of Damask! That’s 1440 Linen Scraps!

If you take 9 players, one of each profession, and want to have them all with full Ascended armor, you will need 10320 Linen Scraps compared to 2880 Iron Ore. TRIPLE the amount of Linen Scraps compared to Iron Ore.

Even there was a harvest node for Linen, like the Iron nodes, still Linen would have ~triple the price of Iron Ore.

Linen Scrap: Buy: 4s 70c Sell: 5s 14c
Iron Ore: Buy: 1s 15c Sell: 1s 31c

So to answer your question, why Iron Ore is cheaper than Linen Scrap, the answer is simple, you need THREE times more Linen than Iron Ore!

The numbers don’t lie

maddoctor.2738:

Tom Gore.4035:

Yet iron still costs way less than linen, because it’s reliably farmable from (rich) iron nodes.

And one more thing. The maximum amount of Deldrimor Steel needed for an item is 8. That’s for items that require only Deldrimor Steel for their components, like a Dagger.

You need 90 Iron Ore to craft one Deldrimor Steel Ingot, so we have a total of 270 Iron Ore for the most demanding (in Iron Ore) Weapon in the game.

You need 16 Deldrimor Steel Ingots for a full set of Heavy armor, that’s 1440 Iron Ore

For Medium and Heavy Armor you need 7 + 6*3 = 25 Bolts of Damask, you need 40 Linen scraps per Bolt, that’s 1000 Linen Scraps

So EVERYONE in the game needs a minimum of 1000 Linen scraps while only 2/9 of the professions, that’s 22% require 1440 Iron Ore PLUS that Linen too. The difference in Linen and Iron Ore requirements is staggering.

Light Armor requires a total of 18 + 6*3 = 36 Bolts of Damask! That’s 1440 Linen Scraps!

If you take 9 players, one of each profession, and want to have them all with full Ascended, you will need 10320 Linen Scraps compared to 2880 Iron Ore, even if you add the 270 weapon requirement, it still does mean that you need more than TRIPLE the amount of Linen Scraps compared to Iron Ore. 10320 compared to 3150, or 30%.

Even there was a harvest node for Linen, like the Iron nodes, still Linen would have ~triple the price of Iron Ore.

Linen Scrap: Buy: 4s 70c Sell: 5s 14c
Iron Ore: Buy: 1s 15c Sell: 1s 31c

Multiply Iron Ore prices by 3.2 (the difference in Linen needed over Iron needed) and you get pretty close prices in Buy orders.

So to answer your question, why Iron Ore is cheaper than Linen Scrap, the answer is simple, you need THREE times more Linen than Iron Ore!

The numbers don’t lie

Your numbers do lie, because you made an error. Every weapon requires at least 270 iron ore, while the dagger requires 720 iron ore. Let’s say on average a weapon would require only 5 deldrimor ingots, it still amounts to 450 ingots.

Granted, most professions can get away with only a few weapons. An engineer never really needs more than 3, but even an engineer with a rifle, pistol and shield needs 1710 iron ore to craft just those three weapons. In contrast, he needs only 1000 linen scraps. A light armor caster (not talking about mesmers, because they use a lot of metal in the weapons, too) can get away with just 270 iron ore per weapon they carry, but that’s quickly offset by warriors who will be running with 6+ weapons and heavy armor.

Do the math again?

Not until there’s cloth nodes and they reduce the silk cost from 100 bolts to 50.

Then it’ll normalize to have a price closer to other ascended materials.

Tom Gore.4035:

maddoctor.2738:

Tom Gore.4035:

Yet iron still costs way less than linen, because it’s reliably farmable from (rich) iron nodes.

And one more thing. The maximum amount of Deldrimor Steel needed for an item is 8. That’s for items that require only Deldrimor Steel for their components, like a Dagger.

You need 90 Iron Ore to craft one Deldrimor Steel Ingot, so we have a total of 270 Iron Ore for the most demanding (in Iron Ore) Weapon in the game.

You need 16 Deldrimor Steel Ingots for a full set of Heavy armor, that’s 1440 Iron Ore

For Medium and Heavy Armor you need 7 + 6*3 = 25 Bolts of Damask, you need 40 Linen scraps per Bolt, that’s 1000 Linen Scraps

So EVERYONE in the game needs a minimum of 1000 Linen scraps while only 2/9 of the professions, that’s 22% require 1440 Iron Ore PLUS that Linen too. The difference in Linen and Iron Ore requirements is staggering.

Light Armor requires a total of 18 + 6*3 = 36 Bolts of Damask! That’s 1440 Linen Scraps!

If you take 9 players, one of each profession, and want to have them all with full Ascended, you will need 10320 Linen Scraps compared to 2880 Iron Ore, even if you add the 270 weapon requirement, it still does mean that you need more than TRIPLE the amount of Linen Scraps compared to Iron Ore. 10320 compared to 3150, or 30%.

Even there was a harvest node for Linen, like the Iron nodes, still Linen would have ~triple the price of Iron Ore.

Linen Scrap: Buy: 4s 70c Sell: 5s 14c
Iron Ore: Buy: 1s 15c Sell: 1s 31c

Multiply Iron Ore prices by 3.2 (the difference in Linen needed over Iron needed) and you get pretty close prices in Buy orders.

So to answer your question, why Iron Ore is cheaper than Linen Scrap, the answer is simple, you need THREE times more Linen than Iron Ore!

The numbers don’t lie

Your numbers do lie, because you made an error. Every weapon requires at least 270 iron ore, while the dagger requires 2160 iron ore. Let’s say on average a weapon would require only 5 deldrimor ingots, it still amounts to 1350 ingots.

Granted, most professions can get away with only a few weapons. An engineer never really needs more than 3, but even an engineer with a rifle, pistol and shield needs 3510 iron ore to craft just those three weapons. In contrast, he needs only 1000 linen scraps. A light armor caster (not talking about mesmers, because they use a lot of metal in the weapons, too) can get away with just 270 iron ore per weapon they carry, but that’s quickly offset by warriors who will be running with 6+ weapons and heavy armor.

Do the math again?

A Dagger requires:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deldrimor_Steel_Dagger_Blade (3 Deldrimor Steel Ingots)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deldrimor_Steel_Dagger_Hilt (2 Deldrimor Steel Ingots)

And

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deldrimor_Steel_Plated_Dowel (3 Deldrimor Steel Ingots)

This is the recipe for Deldrimor Steel Ingot:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deldrimor_Steel_Ingot

Requires 20 Iron Ingots and 10 Steel Ingots, each one requires 3 Iron Ore
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Iron_Ingot
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Steel_Ingot

So, 20*3 + 10*3 = 90 Iron Ore. So 90 Iron Ore per Deldrimor Steel Ingot. The Dagger needs 8 Deldrimor Steel ingots which leads us to a total of 8*90 = 720 Iron Ore for the most expensive (in Iron Ore) Weapon in the game.

Where do you get that the dagger needs 2160 Iron Ore because the wiki says otherwise.

maddoctor.2738:

Tom Gore.4035:

maddoctor.2738:

Tom Gore.4035:

Yet iron still costs way less than linen, because it’s reliably farmable from (rich) iron nodes.

And one more thing. The maximum amount of Deldrimor Steel needed for an item is 8. That’s for items that require only Deldrimor Steel for their components, like a Dagger.

You need 90 Iron Ore to craft one Deldrimor Steel Ingot, so we have a total of 270 Iron Ore for the most demanding (in Iron Ore) Weapon in the game.

You need 16 Deldrimor Steel Ingots for a full set of Heavy armor, that’s 1440 Iron Ore

For Medium and Heavy Armor you need 7 + 6*3 = 25 Bolts of Damask, you need 40 Linen scraps per Bolt, that’s 1000 Linen Scraps

So EVERYONE in the game needs a minimum of 1000 Linen scraps while only 2/9 of the professions, that’s 22% require 1440 Iron Ore PLUS that Linen too. The difference in Linen and Iron Ore requirements is staggering.

Light Armor requires a total of 18 + 6*3 = 36 Bolts of Damask! That’s 1440 Linen Scraps!

If you take 9 players, one of each profession, and want to have them all with full Ascended, you will need 10320 Linen Scraps compared to 2880 Iron Ore, even if you add the 270 weapon requirement, it still does mean that you need more than TRIPLE the amount of Linen Scraps compared to Iron Ore. 10320 compared to 3150, or 30%.

Even there was a harvest node for Linen, like the Iron nodes, still Linen would have ~triple the price of Iron Ore.

Linen Scrap: Buy: 4s 70c Sell: 5s 14c
Iron Ore: Buy: 1s 15c Sell: 1s 31c

Multiply Iron Ore prices by 3.2 (the difference in Linen needed over Iron needed) and you get pretty close prices in Buy orders.

So to answer your question, why Iron Ore is cheaper than Linen Scrap, the answer is simple, you need THREE times more Linen than Iron Ore!

The numbers don’t lie

Your numbers do lie, because you made an error. Every weapon requires at least 270 iron ore, while the dagger requires 2160 iron ore. Let’s say on average a weapon would require only 5 deldrimor ingots, it still amounts to 1350 ingots.

Granted, most professions can get away with only a few weapons. An engineer never really needs more than 3, but even an engineer with a rifle, pistol and shield needs 3510 iron ore to craft just those three weapons. In contrast, he needs only 1000 linen scraps. A light armor caster (not talking about mesmers, because they use a lot of metal in the weapons, too) can get away with just 270 iron ore per weapon they carry, but that’s quickly offset by warriors who will be running with 6+ weapons and heavy armor.

Do the math again?

A Dagger requires:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deldrimor_Steel_Dagger_Blade (3 Deldrimor Steel Ingots)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deldrimor_Steel_Dagger_Hilt (2 Deldrimor Steel Ingots)

And

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deldrimor_Steel_Plated_Dowel (3 Deldrimor Steel Ingots)

This is the recipe for Deldrimor Steel Ingot:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deldrimor_Steel_Ingot

Requires 20 Iron Ingots and 10 Steel Ingots, each one requires 3 Iron Ore
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Iron_Ingot
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Steel_Ingot

So, 20*3 + 10*3 = 90 Iron Ore. So 90 Iron Ore per Deldrimor Steel Ingot. The Dagger needs 8 Deldrimor Steel ingots which leads us to a total of 8*90 = 270 Iron Ore for the most expensive (in Iron Ore) Weapon in the game.

Where do you get that the dagger needs 2160 Iron Ore because the wiki says otherwise.

I corrected my math, but yours was and IS still off.

8 × 90 = 270? Is your calculator broken?

Tom Gore.4035:

but that’s quickly offset by warriors who will be running with 6+ weapons and heavy armor.

Do the math again?

Which Warrior runs 6+ Ascended Weapons?

Anet’s economy guy needs to wake up from his winter sleep and corrects crafting formulas. Changing soft wood plank to 4 logs was maybe a good temporary solution when the game was launched and everyone and their mothers were gathering that but it’s a long time since then. Same with silk, it takes more than a stack to get one bolt of damask, it’s hilarious to think they even monitor it. Or their charts have a resolution of 2 years. Yikes…

Tom Gore.4035:

I corrected my math, but yours was and IS still off.

8 × 90 = 270? Is your calculator broken?

Probably a typical mistake (720 => 270). Anyway, iron ingot still requires 3 ores, yet it is so much cheaper because the supply is much higher. Linen/cotton scraps are relatively hard to come by, especially as a higher level character.

maddoctor.2738:

Tom Gore.4035:

but that’s quickly offset by warriors who will be running with 6+ weapons and heavy armor.

Do the math again?

Which Warrior runs 6+ Ascended Weapons?

Um… Pretty much all of them? I have for my warrior all ascended weapons except the warhorn.

Ascended weapons are far more “worth it” than armor, because they come with a higher base damage than exotic, making the damage increase from upgrading your weapon alone by about 10%.

In contrast, by upgrading only your full set of armor you increase your stats by a mere 5%, while spending ginormous amounts of money compared to just upgrading your weapon set.

rotten.9753:

Tom Gore.4035:

I corrected my math, but yours was and IS still off.

8 × 90 = 270? Is your calculator broken?

Probably a typical mistake (720 => 270). Anyway, iron ingot still requires 3 ores, yet it is so much cheaper because the supply is much higher. Linen/cotton scraps are relatively hard to come by, especially as a higher level character.

Yes that’s what we’re arguing about. I am saying Linen is more expensive than Iron because Iron can be reliably harvested and Linen cannot.

Tom Gore.4035:

Um… Pretty much all of them? I have for my warrior all ascended weapons except the warhorn.

Ascended weapons are far more “worth it” than armor, because they come with a higher base damage than exotic, making the damage increase from upgrading your weapon alone by about 10%.

In contrast, by upgrading only your full set of armor you increase your stats by a mere 5%, while spending ginormous amounts of money compared to just upgrading your weapon set.

They increase your damage by about 6% iirc.

rotten.9753:

Tom Gore.4035:

I corrected my math, but yours was and IS still off.

8 × 90 = 270? Is your calculator broken?

Probably a typical mistake (720 => 270). Anyway, iron ingot still requires 3 ores, yet it is so much cheaper because the supply is much higher. Linen/cotton scraps are relatively hard to come by, especially as a higher level character.

I already corrected it ^^

But anyway the point still stands, if you take 9 players, one of each profession, and want to have them all with full Ascended armor, you will need 10320 Linen Scraps compared to only 2880 Iron Ore. Then it’s a matter of how many Ascended weapons you’d need

rotten.9753:

Tom Gore.4035:

Um… Pretty much all of them? I have for my warrior all ascended weapons except the warhorn.

Ascended weapons are far more “worth it” than armor, because they come with a higher base damage than exotic, making the damage increase from upgrading your weapon alone by about 10%.

In contrast, by upgrading only your full set of armor you increase your stats by a mere 5%, while spending ginormous amounts of money compared to just upgrading your weapon set.

They increase your damage by about 6% iirc.

Could be. Never done that math myself. Still. About the same amount of damage increase with maybe one tenth of the investment.

Tom Gore.4035:

maddoctor.2738:

Tom Gore.4035:

but that’s quickly offset by warriors who will be running with 6+ weapons and heavy armor.

Do the math again?

Which Warrior runs 6+ Ascended Weapons?

Um… Pretty much all of them? I have for my warrior all ascended weapons except the warhorn.

Ascended weapons are far more “worth it” than armor, because they come with a higher base damage than exotic, making the damage increase from upgrading your weapon alone by about 10%.

In contrast, by upgrading only your full set of armor you increase your stats by a mere 5%, while spending ginormous amounts of money compared to just upgrading your weapon set.

Of course weapons are more worth it than armor. That doesn’t mean you need every single weapon in Ascended quality, some weapons are just used for utility, or are completely useless based on which content you are doing, how can those be worth crafting as Ascended?

maddoctor.2738:

rotten.9753:

Tom Gore.4035:

I corrected my math, but yours was and IS still off.

8 × 90 = 270? Is your calculator broken?

Probably a typical mistake (720 => 270). Anyway, iron ingot still requires 3 ores, yet it is so much cheaper because the supply is much higher. Linen/cotton scraps are relatively hard to come by, especially as a higher level character.

I already corrected it ^^

But anyway the point still stands, if you take 9 players, one of each profession, and want to have them all with full Ascended armor, you will need 10320 Linen Scraps compared to only 2880 Iron Ore. Then it’s a matter of how many Ascended weapons you’d need

As I said one would be absolutely nuts to make 9 sets of ascended armor and only 9 weapons at the same time. Your calculation has no basis in reality.

maddoctor.2738:

Tom Gore.4035:

maddoctor.2738:

Tom Gore.4035:

but that’s quickly offset by warriors who will be running with 6+ weapons and heavy armor.

Do the math again?

Which Warrior runs 6+ Ascended Weapons?

Um… Pretty much all of them? I have for my warrior all ascended weapons except the warhorn.

Ascended weapons are far more “worth it” than armor, because they come with a higher base damage than exotic, making the damage increase from upgrading your weapon alone by about 10%.

In contrast, by upgrading only your full set of armor you increase your stats by a mere 5%, while spending ginormous amounts of money compared to just upgrading your weapon set.

Of course weapons are more worth it than armor. That doesn’t mean you need every single weapon in Ascended quality, some weapons are just used for utility, or are completely useless based on which content you are doing, how can those be worth crafting as Ascended?

As I said I haven’t upgraded my warrior’s warhorn, because it would not be worth it. I only upgraded my shield because of the looks (although I won’t complain about the 6% damage increase for shield bashes, either). Almost all other weapons are putting our raw damage and there the upgrade makes sense much more than upgrading my armor.

But maybe we’re coming to the real reason why linen is so expensive? People think upgrading their armor is actually worth the huge investment and neglect their weapon upgrades.

Especially for armor items like gloves and shoulders the difference is like what… 8 stat points total per piece?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

But weirder things happen in the metal market. Darksteel Ingots 4s 27c versus Steel Ingots, 4s 42c . . . very weird it costs less for Tier 4 than Tier 3. Even more curious is how Iron Ingots are 4s 7c.

You need 3 iron for steel and iron ingots but only 2 platinum for darksteel ingots.

Also you need to buy extra mats from the crafting NPC for steel but not for iron ingots.

So its not really that weird.

They will actually go up in price i fear. HoT will no doubt release a ton of gold into the game causing inflation. They may drop in price compared to the market, but the market as a whole isn’t going to be slowing down for a long time unless ANET causes some major money sinks that don’t center around trade able materials.

Josh.5392:

Hey guys, so I want opinions. I understand the reasons for bolts of damas being as expensive as they are, but do you think they’ll ever drop in price? The main reason I’m wondering is because I’m considering making a full set of ascended light armor eventually, so I’ve quit making zojjas insignias for profit and instead started saving all the spools of silk weaving thread I make daily while I decide how I want to go about this. If damask is likely going to stay steady in price, then I should just start making it now. If, however, damask will eventually fall in price, I should continue selling damask and just buy damask whenever it drops in price. Opinions?

Silk and damask dropped in price since season 2 started, mostly due to added output from Dry Top and SW and from seasonal festivals like wintersday and halloween. Output of t2-4 cloth was also raised, however, as wool/cotton/linen usually has less supply on the tp than silk and doesnt contribute as much value to bolt of damask as silk does, the prices for those 3 cloths are a little more susceptible to temporary price spikes, mostly in times of high silk output.
Season 2 is over and even though DT and SW are still there, its less populated, so prices might go up a little, depending what kind of updates Anet delivers in the months leading up to HoT.

Another thing that has to be considered are demographic changes. ALot of old players came back into the game after the HoT announcement and alot of new players took advantage of the 75% off sale. Those new players, might add some demand for t1-4 cloth in the coming weeks, while they level their tailor profession and start working on ascended armor. Some old players coming back might also use more cloth to craft-level their alts because they might not be too keen on the NPE.

So personally, I think that the damask price might have bottomed out now, unless Anet provides new content with high cloth output.