Guild Wars 2

MithranArkanere.8957:

…..
It’s a basic material. And so cloth should not be a bottleneck greater than any material of higher rarity, but it is.

But it’s not a bottlekneck. You mention at least 3 different ways to obtain it in you way too long rant about not being able to farm it like ore or wood. If you replace “bottlekneck” with “harder” your statement is still untrue. There is nothing in the game easier than opening the TP and placing a buy order….

So, because it can be bought at insanely absurdly unreasonable prices that makes it right?

Those prices are a symptom of the problem: No guaranteed node source for th basic material.

Buying from the trading post should be the quick and expensive way to get something, not the only way to get something.

And you still need to get the coin for it. For iron you don’t even need coin for the tools if you were around during wintersday.

It IS a bottleneck. And only those who want to exploit it at the expense of the players affected by it would want to keep it that way.

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

darkace.8925:

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

a percieved problem is a real problem.

Which is easily fixed by changing the perception.

Then convince me that those needing to ore can focus-farm it with 100% reliability while those needing cloth cannot is unfair is a good thing. Convince me that inequity on both ends of the supply and demand equation for cloth compared to ore is a good thing.

The real problem was that silk was too expensive, the perceived problem is that it can only be fixed by introducing a direct farm, which is untrue.

Anet added additional indirect sources of silk during season 2 which lowered the silk value, so the problem is fixed already.

If they add direct silk nodes, silk price will fall to such a value that people wont feel that it is worth their time anymore to directly harvest it for an hour because you only get 3g worth of silk. So they rather earn 5 gold with something else in that hour and then buy the scraps.

you realized, that what you are describing, is essentially according to a lot of current economics, the best way to find a good price point the suppliers, and the buyers feel comfortable with?

essentially, when the price of silk drops to the point its no longer worth gathering, then people stop gathering it, the supply falls, an the price goes up, then people gather it again, until people find the point that all parties agree is the real value of the item. If you dont like the price you are free to get it yourself.

the difference between that and this, is that that since people cannot supply it directly, the supply does not adapt to the demand, and the price does not represent a value that people actually feel comfortable with, based on their daily needs.

The actual price on the tp IS the price that suppliers and consumers are comfortable with. The facts that silk scraps basically lost value all through Season 2 and the supply on the tp in that time rose by 400% a clear indications to me that supply exceeds demand for a long time now.

So why is there a need for people to directly farm silk now? It makes absolutely no sense.

the problem is, the supply does not adapt to the demand. Which is why they had to create these giant item sinks to compensate for the lack of value from overproduction.

There is over production, and the solution is over consumption, to the detriment of good game design when it comes to progression, inventory, general design philosophies, over importance of zerg and mindless play.

I am a little puzzled now as I dont know if you mean the overproduction of silk before ascended or the overproduction of silk we have going on since season 2 started?

I am still unsure what you expect direct silk farming to fix? Should the price of silk stay the same after direct farming is introduced, go up or go down?

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

darkace.8925:

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

a percieved problem is a real problem.

Which is easily fixed by changing the perception.

Then convince me that those needing to ore can focus-farm it with 100% reliability while those needing cloth cannot is unfair is a good thing. Convince me that inequity on both ends of the supply and demand equation for cloth compared to ore is a good thing.

The real problem was that silk was too expensive, the perceived problem is that it can only be fixed by introducing a direct farm, which is untrue.

Anet added additional indirect sources of silk during season 2 which lowered the silk value, so the problem is fixed already.

If they add direct silk nodes, silk price will fall to such a value that people wont feel that it is worth their time anymore to directly harvest it for an hour because you only get 3g worth of silk. So they rather earn 5 gold with something else in that hour and then buy the scraps.

you realized, that what you are describing, is essentially according to a lot of current economics, the best way to find a good price point the suppliers, and the buyers feel comfortable with?

essentially, when the price of silk drops to the point its no longer worth gathering, then people stop gathering it, the supply falls, an the price goes up, then people gather it again, until people find the point that all parties agree is the real value of the item. If you dont like the price you are free to get it yourself.

the difference between that and this, is that that since people cannot supply it directly, the supply does not adapt to the demand, and the price does not represent a value that people actually feel comfortable with, based on their daily needs.

The actual price on the tp IS the price that suppliers and consumers are comfortable with. The facts that silk scraps basically lost value all through Season 2 and the supply on the tp in that time rose by 400% a clear indications to me that supply exceeds demand for a long time now.

So why is there a need for people to directly farm silk now? It makes absolutely no sense.

the problem is, the supply does not adapt to the demand. Which is why they had to create these giant item sinks to compensate for the lack of value from overproduction.

There is over production, and the solution is over consumption, to the detriment of good game design when it comes to progression, inventory, general design philosophies, over importance of zerg and mindless play.

I am a little puzzled now as I dont know if you mean the overproduction of silk before ascended or the overproduction of silk we have going on since season 2 started?

I am still unsure what you expect direct silk farming to fix? Should the price of silk stay the same after direct farming is introduced, go up or go down?

I am saying the ascended recipe for cloth was created to compensate for the overproduction of silk.

Silk is over produced because it is essentially a function of the amount of enemies killed, not a function of how much silk the world wants to use.

Im not saying silk should go down, or go up, but i have a feeling it would go down if people had a realistic option to opt out of the tp silk trade. They do not, without taking an inordinate amount of time.

ideally?
less unintentional silk on the market
reduced silk requirements for recipes, because not as much useless silk is produced.

what would nodes achieve?
a more stable silk price that self corrects better for the demand
an opt out option for people who dont like the price, or just like to build things themselves.

Behellagh.1468:

But the time gate was there so the Richie Rich’s of the game wouldn’t get ascended exceptionally fast. Same reasoning behind charged crystals. Sets everybody on an even footing.

Not really. Those people can bypass the gating by buying from other people. If gold was not an issue and assuming you had enough of the account bound materials you could have made a full set of light armor within an hour of the the patch’s release.

People had a lot of silk because they were not using it. Once you craft, if you wanted some armors, you did dungeons or went to get some karma stuff from orr.

That resulted in crafting armor being unnecessary. Even less than weapons, as weapons id had no temple exotics, only dungeons. And so people stacked lots and lots of T5 materials that they were getting at level 80. Particularly silk, as the bulk of farmers made warriors and guardians.

And so sinks and ascended crafting was adjusted to consume all that surplus T5 basic materials.

But ascended armor practically never drops. You could do every single thing that may drop ascended stuff every single day for 8 hours straight without pauses, and never get a single ascended item. Not even in fractals.

So ascended armor is always being crafted unlike exotic. And while it did its job on consuming the surplus silk, it did it too well, and now the surplus has gone the other way around, and even when they add some more sources of cloth, its cost stays high.

They upped the cloth requirement for damask since the lesser amounts they used for mithrillium, spirit wood, and Elonian leather didn’t make enough of a dent when they implemented ascended weapon crafting – so they cranked up the numbers for damask to try and make a dent.

They might have overshot a bit, but it’s way better than the other materials. The only question in my mind is why they haven’t gone back to adjust the other three upward as well.

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

darkace.8925:

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

a percieved problem is a real problem.

Which is easily fixed by changing the perception.

Then convince me that those needing to ore can focus-farm it with 100% reliability while those needing cloth cannot is unfair is a good thing. Convince me that inequity on both ends of the supply and demand equation for cloth compared to ore is a good thing.

The real problem was that silk was too expensive, the perceived problem is that it can only be fixed by introducing a direct farm, which is untrue.

Anet added additional indirect sources of silk during season 2 which lowered the silk value, so the problem is fixed already.

If they add direct silk nodes, silk price will fall to such a value that people wont feel that it is worth their time anymore to directly harvest it for an hour because you only get 3g worth of silk. So they rather earn 5 gold with something else in that hour and then buy the scraps.

you realized, that what you are describing, is essentially according to a lot of current economics, the best way to find a good price point the suppliers, and the buyers feel comfortable with?

essentially, when the price of silk drops to the point its no longer worth gathering, then people stop gathering it, the supply falls, an the price goes up, then people gather it again, until people find the point that all parties agree is the real value of the item. If you dont like the price you are free to get it yourself.

the difference between that and this, is that that since people cannot supply it directly, the supply does not adapt to the demand, and the price does not represent a value that people actually feel comfortable with, based on their daily needs.

The actual price on the tp IS the price that suppliers and consumers are comfortable with. The facts that silk scraps basically lost value all through Season 2 and the supply on the tp in that time rose by 400% a clear indications to me that supply exceeds demand for a long time now.

So why is there a need for people to directly farm silk now? It makes absolutely no sense.

the problem is, the supply does not adapt to the demand. Which is why they had to create these giant item sinks to compensate for the lack of value from overproduction.

There is over production, and the solution is over consumption, to the detriment of good game design when it comes to progression, inventory, general design philosophies, over importance of zerg and mindless play.

I am a little puzzled now as I dont know if you mean the overproduction of silk before ascended or the overproduction of silk we have going on since season 2 started?

I am still unsure what you expect direct silk farming to fix? Should the price of silk stay the same after direct farming is introduced, go up or go down?

I am saying the ascended recipe for cloth was created to compensate for the overproduction of silk.

Silk is over produced because it is essentially a function of the amount of enemies killed, not a function of how much silk the world wants to use.

Im not saying silk should go down, or go up, but i have a feeling it would go down if people had a realistic option to opt out of the tp silk trade. They do not, without taking an inordinate amount of time.

ideally?
less unintentional silk on the market
reduced silk requirements for recipes, because not as much useless silk is produced.

what would nodes achieve?
a more stable silk price that self corrects better for the demand
an opt out option for people who dont like the price, or just like to build things themselves.

Ah, ok. Then I just didnt get you because you were talking off topic all the time.

Mirta.5029:

Shiyo.3578:

It made sense at first, now it no longer does that the supply of silk isn’t so insanely high with no use.

They need to fix it.

I rather they fixed leather by increasing its consumption. And gossamer, as gossamer is hitting the floor now. I think that silk price isn’t that bad right now.

Damask is ~14g each
Every other ascended mat is ~2.5-4g.

Damask is nearly 4x the amount of every other ascended mat. That’s awful design.

Shiyo.3578:

Damask is ~14g each
Every other ascended mat is ~2.5-4g.

Damask is nearly 4x the amount of every other ascended mat. That’s awful design.

hence other materials are too cheap.

Other materials are not cheap. They are on the sweetspot.

Other materials are fine. Just the pace to get a piece of ascended equipment each month.

But if you need cloth in the recipe, the piece takes over 3-4 months.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Other materials are fine. .

T5 leather that’s bellow the vendor price is fine?
Silk at 1 silver per piece seems fine. For T6 gossamer is far too cheap (Orri and Trees are going for 4 silver each).

No. A T5 basic material being cheap is fine, no matter how low it ever gets.

It’s fine when there’s also a nodes to get some guaranteed basic materials by spending time instead grinding then spending coin.

And silk, a basic material, being over 6 silver per piece, and a scrap 2 silver is too much.

Because it’s a basic material, and it has become a bottleneck when crafting. And a basic material should not be that bottleneck. For that there’s fine and rarer.

phys.7689:

essentially, when the price of silk drops to the point its no longer worth gathering, then people stop gathering it, the supply falls, an the price goes up, then people gather it again, until people find the point that all parties agree is the real value of the item. If you dont like the price you are free to get it yourself.

Except that your claim makes no sense in the context of the current situation. Silk scraps are 2.21 silver. Thick leather sections are 0.09 silver. Are you seriously arguing that players are farming the hell out of leather, causing prices to plummet, while ignoring the silk that is valued over 24 times as high? You can claim that this is a supply side issue, but reality doesn’t agree.

phys.7689:

the difference between that and this, is that that since people cannot supply it directly, the supply does not adapt to the demand, and the price does not represent a value that people actually feel comfortable with, based on their daily needs.

Leather is obtained in the same way. How do you explain away the discrepancy between the two? Here’s how I explain it: ArenaNet artificially inflated the demand for silk. Over time the demand has grown faster than the supply. Unless supply is increased to meet that demand, prices will continue to grow. Relying on farmers to bolster that supply is not realistic. There is more than enough incentive for them to gather it now, but they don’t do so. Why is that? Some have claimed that it’s the lack of reliability, but I’m not so convinced. Leather suffers from the same condition, and it’s still plentiful. Adjusting the supply just isn’t enough.

The demand needs to be readjusted to match supply. There is no reason to require 1500 silk scraps for a single ascended piece when it’s running at over 2.2 silver a pop. That’s 33 gold worth of materials for once ascended item! Contrast that with the 1.3 gold that it would cost to buy 1500 thick leather sections. This is effectively pricing new non-heavy armor wearers out of their end game gear. If you think otherwise I’m willing to bet that you geared your characters back when silk was cheap.

MithranArkanere.8957:

It’s fine when there’s also a nodes to get some guaranteed basic materials by spending time instead grinding then spending coin.

So running from 1 silk node to the next should be implemented to avoid having to grind gold to buy it?

I dont even….

Wanze.8410:

MithranArkanere.8957:

It’s fine when there’s also a nodes to get some guaranteed basic materials by spending time instead grinding then spending coin.

So running from 1 silk node to the next should be implemented to avoid having to grind gold to buy it?

I dont even….

People really keep posting things that others haven’t been saying . . .

He’s saying you shouldn’t have to go farm gold to the extent it currently is held at. Something needs to change, be it adding some sort of node or other output or lowering the materials of Spools.

At least, that’s what I’m seeing.

Bernie: while I agree with much of what you said, the supply not meeting the demand isn’t exactly correct. As of now, according to gw2spidy, silk is sitting at 722,130 supply and demand at 614,942. Thats a supply of +107,189. The supply is enough to meet the demand. Silk isn’t even priced on the TP to make it unobtainable either. What the chief complaint is that it costs more and takes longer.

In the end people just want it now instead of a few days later. That’s what it all boils down to.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Wanze.8410:

MithranArkanere.8957:

It’s fine when there’s also a nodes to get some guaranteed basic materials by spending time instead grinding then spending coin.

So running from 1 silk node to the next should be implemented to avoid having to grind gold to buy it?

I dont even….

People really keep posting things that others haven’t been saying . . .

He’s saying you shouldn’t have to go farm gold to the extent it currently is held at. Something needs to change, be it adding some sort of node or other output or lowering the materials of Spools.

At least, that’s what I’m seeing.

And other outputs were introduced, which lead to silk losing 40% of its value over the last 4 months.

Wanze.8410:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Wanze.8410:

MithranArkanere.8957:

It’s fine when there’s also a nodes to get some guaranteed basic materials by spending time instead grinding then spending coin.

So running from 1 silk node to the next should be implemented to avoid having to grind gold to buy it?

I dont even….

People really keep posting things that others haven’t been saying . . .

He’s saying you shouldn’t have to go farm gold to the extent it currently is held at. Something needs to change, be it adding some sort of node or other output or lowering the materials of Spools.

At least, that’s what I’m seeing.

And other outputs were introduced, which lead to silk losing 40% of its value over the last 4 months.

And it’s still outside the range for the rest of its peers. Especially leather, for which . . . I’m sorry, I’m sorry, is incredibly cheap. NINE COPPER per piece. And it also doesn’t have a “node” to harvest from. But compare it to Silk Scrap right now at 2s 27c . . . that’s over twenty times as expensive.

Of course, as I said earlier in this topic – it’s not the only oddity going on, but Silk is the extreme outlier in the case of what the Black Lion trade value is among its peers.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Wanze.8410:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Wanze.8410:

MithranArkanere.8957:

It’s fine when there’s also a nodes to get some guaranteed basic materials by spending time instead grinding then spending coin.

So running from 1 silk node to the next should be implemented to avoid having to grind gold to buy it?

I dont even….

People really keep posting things that others haven’t been saying . . .

He’s saying you shouldn’t have to go farm gold to the extent it currently is held at. Something needs to change, be it adding some sort of node or other output or lowering the materials of Spools.

At least, that’s what I’m seeing.

And other outputs were introduced, which lead to silk losing 40% of its value over the last 4 months.

And it’s still outside the range for the rest of its peers. Especially leather, for which . . . I’m sorry, I’m sorry, is incredibly cheap. NINE COPPER per piece. And it also doesn’t have a “node” to harvest from. But compare it to Silk Scrap right now at 2s 27c . . . that’s over twenty times as expensive.

Of course, as I said earlier in this topic – it’s not the only oddity going on, but Silk is the extreme outlier in the case of what the Black Lion trade value is among its peers.

And why should t5 leather and t5 cloth have the same value, if both drop on an evenly basis for all players?

Yargesh.4965:

Ayleid.9416:

To fix this, they have to remove lv 80 armor drop from non-lvl 80 zones, so people can go in low level zones if they need low level material…

Do you know why they have so many lvl 80 drops in no 80 zones?

If i remember, is to give to players appropriate rewards, so they can return in low level zones and obtain good rewards, but this made sense at the beginning of the game, now, with ascended, low level material are much rare than high level because if you return in low level zones, you drop a lot of lvl 80 equip that drop high level material, and you can’t drop low level unless you farm bags from mob, or salvagable item.
if there is an other reason, tell me, i’m not totally shure in this

Bernie.8674:

phys.7689:

essentially, when the price of silk drops to the point its no longer worth gathering, then people stop gathering it, the supply falls, an the price goes up, then people gather it again, until people find the point that all parties agree is the real value of the item. If you dont like the price you are free to get it yourself.

Except that your claim makes no sense in the context of the current situation. Silk scraps are 2.21 silver. Thick leather sections are 0.09 silver. Are you seriously arguing that players are farming the hell out of leather, causing prices to plummet, while ignoring the silk that is valued over 24 times as high? You can claim that this is a supply side issue, but reality doesn’t agree.

phys.7689:

the difference between that and this, is that that since people cannot supply it directly, the supply does not adapt to the demand, and the price does not represent a value that people actually feel comfortable with, based on their daily needs.

Leather is obtained in the same way. How do you explain away the discrepancy between the two? Here’s how I explain it: ArenaNet artificially inflated the demand for silk. Over time the demand has grown faster than the supply. Unless supply is increased to meet that demand, prices will continue to grow. Relying on farmers to bolster that supply is not realistic. There is more than enough incentive for them to gather it now, but they don’t do so. Why is that? Some have claimed that it’s the lack of reliability, but I’m not so convinced. Leather suffers from the same condition, and it’s still plentiful. Adjusting the supply just isn’t enough.

The demand needs to be readjusted to match supply. There is no reason to require 1500 silk scraps for a single ascended piece when it’s running at over 2.2 silver a pop. That’s 33 gold worth of materials for once ascended item! Contrast that with the 1.3 gold that it would cost to buy 1500 thick leather sections. This is effectively pricing new non-heavy armor wearers out of their end game gear. If you think otherwise I’m willing to bet that you geared your characters back when silk was cheap.

its a supply side issue, because the supply does not adapt to the demand.

the problem with the supply being, that it doesnt react in tune with demand.

• irl, if an item is not worth it to produce, people stop producing it. Leather cannot stop production (enough) even when its worthless.
• irl, if an item is in high demand, more people start to supply it, or supplier make more. You cant really increase the supply of silk intentionally very well, Silk cannot increase production (enough) even when it is valuable.

the only way these sources can be adjusted is by government(anet) intervention. Which generally speaking is seen as an inferior, non responsive, and problematic means of dealing with the issue.

leather doesnt suffer the same issue, because it is a lot less useful, by their crafting design.
out of all the materials for crafting ascended the ratio of elonian leather to damask is 24:75 the ratio thick leather to silk is 3600:22500 this means essentially assuming all armor weights are being made equally, roughly 6 times as much silk is being consumed by ascended.

the reason farmers have not supplied more silk, is because it really isnt possible. The best way to get silk is to farm, you probably average the same amount, and they were already farming in that exact same way when silk was worth 8 copper. If silk drops, they will still produce it, because they have no choice, its a byproduct regular farming operations.

and thats where having an elastic supply comes in

If silk and leather was not an uncontrollable byproduct of general farming AND you had to intentionally get silk or leather, or whatever in order to gather it, you would never have had the huge surpluses, that made them think it was a good idea to make people burn 300 scraps a day, for 36 days just to produce one armor set.

Wanze.8410:

And why should t5 leather and t5 cloth have the same value, if both drop on an evenly basis for all players?

1 – Why shouldn’t they?

2 – Who says they drop on an even basis for all players, at all times? Especially as some places the salvage item drops do not always include cloth salvage items . . .

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Wanze.8410:

And why should t5 leather and t5 cloth have the same value, if both drop on an evenly basis for all players?

1 – Why shouldn’t they?

2 – Who says they drop on an even basis for all players, at all times? Especially as some places the salvage item drops do not always include cloth salvage items . . .

1. Because they are different items, with different drop rates and different uses.
2. Youre right. I get more silk than leather on a general basis.

Cloth drop rates from bags are higher than leather rates from the same bags. On the whole cloth is much more common than leather; the differences are in demand.

pdavis.8031:

Bernie: while I agree with much of what you said, the supply not meeting the demand isn’t exactly correct. As of now, according to gw2spidy, silk is sitting at 722,130 supply and demand at 614,942. Thats a supply of +107,189. The supply is enough to meet the demand.

Sell orders =/= total supply
Buy orders =/= total demand

Sell orders represent a portion of overall supply, and buy orders represent a portion of overall demand. They do not take into account other components of supply and demand (like buying instantly, selling instantly, sitting on mats, etc) and do not give a complete picture.

Also, your equation to calculate a silk “oversupply” is flawed. Buy orders and sell orders means there is no meeting of the minds between the people placing buy orders and the people placing sell orders. You can’t subtract one from the other to calculate over/undersupply. You need to take into account all the other sources of supply and demand to really calculate whether the market is in balance or if an over/undersupply exists.

However, prices can be a good indication of whether an oversupply or undersupply exists, since price is a reflection of the relationship between supply and demand. When you have 4 ascended mats and the price of 1 of those mats is a clear outlyer that is well above the prices of the other 3 mats, there are pretty good odds that an undersupply exists.

The cause of the undersupply may be on the supply side of the equation (no reliable way to obtain the stuff used to create the ascended mat), or on the demand side (ANet requiring more stuff to create the ascended mat compared to the other ascended mats). Or…it can be both (which I think is the case).

Manoa.5897:

pdavis.8031:

Bernie: while I agree with much of what you said, the supply not meeting the demand isn’t exactly correct. As of now, according to gw2spidy, silk is sitting at 722,130 supply and demand at 614,942. Thats a supply of +107,189. The supply is enough to meet the demand.

Sell orders ? total supply
Buy orders ? total demand

Neither of those statements are really true. Sell orders, sure those are the ones posted on the TP available for purchase. But how many of that 700K are within say 50% of the current selling price? There’s 21K at 4s and I don’t think silk every got that high. There’s one for sale for 250g and at least 100 for over 1g a piece for crying out loud. Sure it’s all part of “supply” on the TP but is it truly indicative of supply that will trade in a timely fashion? When over the last month the price fell between 1s60c and 2s25c?

Same is true with buy orders. 625K buy orders, 95k are 10c or below. 250K below 1s which it hasn’t been since the first few weeks after ascended armor was introduced.
So does that truly count as demand or like the 1g silk scrap on sale just wishful thinking?

Behellagh.1468:

Manoa.5897:

pdavis.8031:

Bernie: while I agree with much of what you said, the supply not meeting the demand isn’t exactly correct. As of now, according to gw2spidy, silk is sitting at 722,130 supply and demand at 614,942. Thats a supply of +107,189. The supply is enough to meet the demand.

Sell orders ? total supply
Buy orders ? total demand

Neither of those statements are really true. Sell orders, sure those are the ones posted on the TP available for purchase. But how many of that 700K are within say 50% of the current selling price? There’s 21K at 4s and I don’t think silk every got that high. There’s one for sale for 250g and at least 100 for over 1g a piece for crying out loud. Sure it’s all part of “supply” on the TP but is it truly indicative of supply that will trade in a timely fashion? When over the last month the price fell between 1s60c and 2s25c?

Same is true with buy orders. 625K buy orders, 95k are 10c or below. 250K below 1s which it hasn’t been since the first few weeks after ascended armor was introduced.
So does that truly count as demand or like the 1g silk scrap on sale just wishful thinking?

You do realize that your entire argument just further supports my statement that buy orders do not equal total demand and sell orders do not equal total supply, right? XD

(P.S. I had to edit my post…didn’t realize the forum doesn’t support the slashed equal sign and the forum replaced it with a ?. You caught me in the middle of the edit.)

Which is why I posted as I did. All you had in your post at the time was what was quoted. I was confused by the meaning of the ?.

Wanze.8410:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Wanze.8410:

And why should t5 leather and t5 cloth have the same value, if both drop on an evenly basis for all players?

1 – Why shouldn’t they?

2 – Who says they drop on an even basis for all players, at all times? Especially as some places the salvage item drops do not always include cloth salvage items . . .

1. Because they are different items, with different drop rates and different uses.
2. Youre right. I get more silk than leather on a general basis.

So should silk drop less or more?

Ayleid.9416:

Yargesh.4965:

Ayleid.9416:

To fix this, they have to remove lv 80 armor drop from non-lvl 80 zones, so people can go in low level zones if they need low level material…

Do you know why they have so many lvl 80 drops in no 80 zones?

If i remember, is to give to players appropriate rewards, so they can return in low level zones and obtain good rewards, but this made sense at the beginning of the game, now, with ascended, low level material are much rare than high level because if you return in low level zones, you drop a lot of lvl 80 equip that drop high level material, and you can’t drop low level unless you farm bags from mob, or salvagable item.
if there is an other reason, tell me, i’m not totally shure in this

At first you did get level appropriate, then was charged so you are correct.
You still get some drops that can be directly salvaged on level most are character level.
You are forgetting though that all bags that drop are area level. Bandit centaur etc all have cloth in the loot table, and are easy to get.

I don’t get why people are all hung on on needing 100 bolts of silk instead of 50 while ignoring that wool and linen is even more expensive while they are in line with their metal and leather counterparts.
The reason is the amount of cloth you need compared to leather, wood, and metal. You basically need only leather for leather armor, and one or two for any other armor set and weapon. There is just next to no demand (and thus next to no production incentive which keeps the TP price relatively stable). The same goes for wood, in even a bigger extend as it’s only used for weapons. There is an absurd 4:1 in there which also lets the prices be relatively stable as again there’s just so little incentive to get that wood, craft, and sell it. Metal you only need for heavy armor and most weapons, still if someone equips a char they usually don’t craft all weapons but just the ones they commonly use (1 or 2), which means the demand is still relativly low. In comparison to all that cloth is used in every for of armor and 3 per insignia.
People want to have all 6 parts of their armor, which means 18 damask for insignias alone. The lowest amount for a full set of armor (24 for medium armor) is still 6 higher than the highest amount of any other material (18 leather for medium armor).

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Wanze.8410:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Wanze.8410:

And why should t5 leather and t5 cloth have the same value, if both drop on an evenly basis for all players?

1 – Why shouldn’t they?

2 – Who says they drop on an even basis for all players, at all times? Especially as some places the salvage item drops do not always include cloth salvage items . . .

1. Because they are different items, with different drop rates and different uses.
2. Youre right. I get more silk than leather on a general basis.

So should silk drop less or more?

I think Anet did a good job in adjusting the silk output in the last couple of months and introducing silk nodes isnt neccessary.

Wanze.8410:

I think Anet did a good job in adjusting the silk output in the last couple of months and introducing silk nodes isnt neccessary.

Mmm.

Now the other cloth tiers . . . ? Is this only solvable the same way Silver Dubloons are? (Leave a character at the ‘appropriate level’ and resist all tries to level them up.)

Manoa.5897:

However, prices can be a good indication of whether an oversupply or undersupply exists, since price is a reflection of the relationship between supply and demand. When you have 4 ascended mats and the price of 1 of those mats is a clear outlyer that is well above the prices of the other 3 mats, there are pretty good odds that an undersupply exists.

The cause of the undersupply may be on the supply side of the equation (no reliable way to obtain the stuff used to create the ascended mat), or on the demand side (ANet requiring more stuff to create the ascended mat compared to the other ascended mats). Or…it can be both (which I think is the case).

I think its more the price evolution which is a good indicator of oversupply and undersupply, not the price compared to different items. I find it hard to believe that silk or damask is undersupplied when supply on the tp has been growing continously for 5 months and prices dropped.

Yargesh.4965:

Ayleid.9416:

Yargesh.4965:

Ayleid.9416:

To fix this, they have to remove lv 80 armor drop from non-lvl 80 zones, so people can go in low level zones if they need low level material…

Do you know why they have so many lvl 80 drops in no 80 zones?

If i remember, is to give to players appropriate rewards, so they can return in low level zones and obtain good rewards, but this made sense at the beginning of the game, now, with ascended, low level material are much rare than high level because if you return in low level zones, you drop a lot of lvl 80 equip that drop high level material, and you can’t drop low level unless you farm bags from mob, or salvagable item.
if there is an other reason, tell me, i’m not totally shure in this

At first you did get level appropriate, then was charged so you are correct.
You still get some drops that can be directly salvaged on level most are character level.
You are forgetting though that all bags that drop are area level. Bandit centaur etc all have cloth in the loot table, and are easy to get.

Yep, i didn’t forgot about bags, they are under rng: killing 20 mob usually drop me 14 bags, and usually i get 4 cloth from them…but i also drop 5-7 or more lvl 80 armor pieces… if only they were low level, i can obtain more low level material and reduce the price

Wanze, what do you have to say about the recent trend of supply dropping quickly and price going back up again? We know it’s because the extra supply from Wintersday isn’t there anymore, but does this mean to keep the silk price at human levels Anet needs to introduce more temporary supply boosts?

Why not fix it once and for all by doing what phys is suggesting and moving (most) supply from non-intended to intended?

Wanze.8410:

Manoa.5897:

However, prices can be a good indication of whether an oversupply or undersupply exists, since price is a reflection of the relationship between supply and demand. When you have 4 ascended mats and the price of 1 of those mats is a clear outlyer that is well above the prices of the other 3 mats, there are pretty good odds that an undersupply exists.

The cause of the undersupply may be on the supply side of the equation (no reliable way to obtain the stuff used to create the ascended mat), or on the demand side (ANet requiring more stuff to create the ascended mat compared to the other ascended mats). Or…it can be both (which I think is the case).

I think its more the price evolution which is a good indicator of oversupply and undersupply, not the price compared to different items. I find it hard to believe that silk or damask is undersupplied when supply on the tp has been growing continously for 5 months and prices dropped.

the relation ship of supply demand, and price is not always a simple one.
Some times you would make more, by charging less, but you can only do that if the supply can match that.

lets say your price point on a apples is 5 dollars, it sells consistently but slowly, and you slowly build up an excess of apples. you sell 1000 apples a month and build up a surplus of 100 apples a month
you say man i am making too many apples i keep wasting apples
now you could look at that and say, cutting the price to 4 dollars, yeah i might sell more apples, but i would only make 4400 dollars

but it turns out that when you dropped the price to 4 dollars, a bunch more people become interested in apples, an apple pop tart factory can now afford to makea decent profit buying your apples, they now want 1000 more apples if the price is 4 dollars.

but you cant make 1000 more apples, so you are actually undersupplied, and your 5 dollar price actually makes you less money than you could make, if you could only produce 1000 more apples per month.

Now, is this the case with silk? who knows, but we cant find out, because we cant adjust the supply.

I will say ascended is failing at its goal of being something people enjoy doing as an endgame activity, many people are opting out, and dont feel rewarded doing it. I just stopped one day after being like 4/6 or maybe 5/6 armor peices for leather because the daily craft made me want to choke a *!@). I dont even entertain the notion that i would bother on my mesmer.

the point of that is, i think the current costs, in time/money are not such that they are at the right price point. Especially when you realize, that the real point of ascended isnt even to make gold, its to be something that people want to do once they reach endgame.

back to the apple analogy for a second, anets goal with ascended can be likened to the goal of getting people hooked on apples. The current supply of silk is not one that gets people hooked on apples

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Wanze.8410:

I think Anet did a good job in adjusting the silk output in the last couple of months and introducing silk nodes isnt neccessary.

Mmm.

Now the other cloth tiers . . . ? Is this only solvable the same way Silver Dubloons are? (Leave a character at the ‘appropriate level’ and resist all tries to level them up.)

Those 3 cloths can be easily “farmed” by buying them with karma, which is quite profitable and they also saw additional outputs during season 2, even though not to the extend of silk. Their added output was mostly during Halloween and Wintersday, so their value only dropped considerably during those festivals and recovered a little after that. But also other outputs were added, like the gift of mawdrey and the gift of gratitude. Wool and Cotton are obtainable from the cloth rack as well.

There are also several event chains, like the pre events to Moodnir Ulgoth, or dungeons, that drop t2-4 cloth at a good rate, so i dont think they are a problem. Thier overall output and requirement for damask are probably in line with the output of silk and its requirements for damask.

I can understand the desire of some people to be able to farm everything for their daily needs on their own at a considerable pace. But if that was possible, we wouldnt need a trading post, which gives us the option to pay other players with gold for our wanted items.
Silk drops in general make up a good portion of the average players loot table at end game. If you devalue that too much, people who dont want to craft ascended gear, will start complaining.

John Smith mentioned that changes to the economy usually dont aim at short term fixes but rather try to solve the problem in the long term. They probably looked at silk last summer and determined its supply was not sufficient and its price too high and then adjusted their output all through season 2. By using timegated outputs (Mawdrey, Gift of Gratitude, Cloth Rack) and temporary outputs (Halloween, Wintersday) they made sure that prices will go down gradually and not crash, as they would, if you added farmable nodes all over Tyria or slashed the requirements for damask.

We also dont know what Anet has in store for us this year, feature patches, like the one last year in April that made Ascended gear account bound, seem to usually have an impact on demand as well, so they probably take future plans into the equation, when adjusting supply faucets.

Wanze.8410:

MithranArkanere.8957:

It’s fine when there’s also a nodes to get some guaranteed basic materials by spending time instead grinding then spending coin.

So running from 1 silk node to the next should be implemented to avoid having to grind gold to buy it?

I dont even….

If someone wants, yes.

But not everyone does that. Most will mine nodes on their way while completing maps or doing events or jumping puzzles or guild challenges.

The important part is having such choice.

phys.7689:

Now, is this the case with silk? who knows, but we cant find out, because we cant adjust the supply.

We cant find out by adjusting supply but its not neccessary because Anet can.
They have all the metrics, of how much silk scraps and weaving threads get created per day, how much gets destroyed and how much get bought and sold at which price point.

So in the case that falling silk prices and rising silk supply dont result in added demand for damask, there is not need to further devalue it.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Wanze.8410:

MithranArkanere.8957:

It’s fine when there’s also a nodes to get some guaranteed basic materials by spending time instead grinding then spending coin.

So running from 1 silk node to the next should be implemented to avoid having to grind gold to buy it?

I dont even….

If someone wants, yes.

But not everyone does that. Most will mine nodes on their way while completing maps or doing events or jumping puzzles or guild challenges.

The important part is having such choice.

Most activities in game reward you with silk drops from bags, salvage items, containers etc. They also reward you with extra karma, gold and other currencies that you can use to obtain cloth.

So you can basically play any way you want and will be rewarded with silk in many ways, most of them optional, yet you call it a grind.

Wanze.8410:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Wanze.8410:

I think Anet did a good job in adjusting the silk output in the last couple of months and introducing silk nodes isnt neccessary.

Mmm.

Now the other cloth tiers . . . ? Is this only solvable the same way Silver Dubloons are? (Leave a character at the ‘appropriate level’ and resist all tries to level them up.)

Those 3 cloths can be easily “farmed” by buying them with karma, which is quite profitable and they also saw additional outputs during season 2, even though not to the extend of silk. Their added output was mostly during Halloween and Wintersday, so their value only dropped considerably during those festivals and recovered a little after that. But also other outputs were added, like the gift of mawdrey and the gift of gratitude. Wool and Cotton are obtainable from the cloth rack as well.

There are also several event chains, like the pre events to Moodnir Ulgoth, or dungeons, that drop t2-4 cloth at a good rate, so i dont think they are a problem. Thier overall output and requirement for damask are probably in line with the output of silk and its requirements for damask.

I can understand the desire of some people to be able to farm everything for their daily needs on their own at a considerable pace. But if that was possible, we wouldnt need a trading post, which gives us the option to pay other players with gold for our wanted items.
Silk drops in general make up a good portion of the average players loot table at end game. If you devalue that too much, people who dont want to craft ascended gear, will start complaining.

John Smith mentioned that changes to the economy usually dont aim at short term fixes but rather try to solve the problem in the long term. They probably looked at silk last summer and determined its supply was not sufficient and its price too high and then adjusted their output all through season 2. By using timegated outputs (Mawdrey, Gift of Gratitude, Cloth Rack) and temporary outputs (Halloween, Wintersday) they made sure that prices will go down gradually and not crash, as they would, if you added farmable nodes all over Tyria or slashed the requirements for damask.

We also dont know what Anet has in store for us this year, feature patches, like the one last year in April that made Ascended gear account bound, seem to usually have an impact on demand as well, so they probably take future plans into the equation, when adjusting supply faucets.

The design of the system shouldnt exist to feed the TP, people will trade silk on the TP because the price people are willing to pay makes it worthwhile.

people killing mass quantities of random mobs always made the most money (farming) even when silk was 8 copper, so i dont think you really need to worry about their earnings.

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Wanze.8410:

I think Anet did a good job in adjusting the silk output in the last couple of months and introducing silk nodes isnt neccessary.

Mmm.

Now the other cloth tiers . . . ? Is this only solvable the same way Silver Dubloons are? (Leave a character at the ‘appropriate level’ and resist all tries to level them up.)

Those 3 cloths can be easily “farmed” by buying them with karma, which is quite profitable and they also saw additional outputs during season 2, even though not to the extend of silk. Their added output was mostly during Halloween and Wintersday, so their value only dropped considerably during those festivals and recovered a little after that. But also other outputs were added, like the gift of mawdrey and the gift of gratitude. Wool and Cotton are obtainable from the cloth rack as well.

There are also several event chains, like the pre events to Moodnir Ulgoth, or dungeons, that drop t2-4 cloth at a good rate, so i dont think they are a problem. Thier overall output and requirement for damask are probably in line with the output of silk and its requirements for damask.

I can understand the desire of some people to be able to farm everything for their daily needs on their own at a considerable pace. But if that was possible, we wouldnt need a trading post, which gives us the option to pay other players with gold for our wanted items.
Silk drops in general make up a good portion of the average players loot table at end game. If you devalue that too much, people who dont want to craft ascended gear, will start complaining.

John Smith mentioned that changes to the economy usually dont aim at short term fixes but rather try to solve the problem in the long term. They probably looked at silk last summer and determined its supply was not sufficient and its price too high and then adjusted their output all through season 2. By using timegated outputs (Mawdrey, Gift of Gratitude, Cloth Rack) and temporary outputs (Halloween, Wintersday) they made sure that prices will go down gradually and not crash, as they would, if you added farmable nodes all over Tyria or slashed the requirements for damask.

We also dont know what Anet has in store for us this year, feature patches, like the one last year in April that made Ascended gear account bound, seem to usually have an impact on demand as well, so they probably take future plans into the equation, when adjusting supply faucets.

The design of the system shouldnt exist to feed the TP, people will trade silk on the TP because the price people are willing to pay makes it worthwhile.

people killing mass quantities of random mobs always made the most money (farming) even when silk was 8 copper, so i dont think you really need to worry about their earnings.

It doesnt feed the tp it feeds other people through the tp, which is a great design because gives people more options to get what they want.
If you let people overproduce silk, it will go back to vendor value and i dont see anybody being happy about that.

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

Now, is this the case with silk? who knows, but we cant find out, because we cant adjust the supply.

We cant find out by adjusting supply but its not neccessary because Anet can.
They have all the metrics, of how much silk scraps and weaving threads get created per day, how much gets destroyed and how much get bought and sold at which price point.

So in the case that falling silk prices and rising silk supply dont result in added demand for damask, there is not need to further devalue it.

according to most capitalist theory, and they could be wrong, but this is the common belief,
One entity is generally considered to be inferior to the market itself at finding the right price points for items.
Complaints are generally that such an entity would be less responsive, more rigid, and have effected by concerns outside of the price of the specific good itself.

im sure economists have debated this many times, i dont think there is a 100% right answer for all situations, but in this situation i see it like this.
for a long time, anets numbers had us oversupplying silk to the point it became valueless
as a solution to that problem, Ascendeds item requirements, created a bunch of new problems, like proffesion progression inequality, an apparently high feeling of grind, increased farming activity etc.

i feel like the single entity is not currently as effecient at finding these sweet spots as many claim a more free market to be.

i generally find that items that have targetable means of supply tend to have their price more closely aligned with a value that people feel comfortable buying, supplying and selling them

i dont think we are there for silk, or leather.

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Wanze.8410:

I think Anet did a good job in adjusting the silk output in the last couple of months and introducing silk nodes isnt neccessary.

Mmm.

Now the other cloth tiers . . . ? Is this only solvable the same way Silver Dubloons are? (Leave a character at the ‘appropriate level’ and resist all tries to level them up.)

Those 3 cloths can be easily “farmed” by buying them with karma, which is quite profitable and they also saw additional outputs during season 2, even though not to the extend of silk. Their added output was mostly during Halloween and Wintersday, so their value only dropped considerably during those festivals and recovered a little after that. But also other outputs were added, like the gift of mawdrey and the gift of gratitude. Wool and Cotton are obtainable from the cloth rack as well.

There are also several event chains, like the pre events to Moodnir Ulgoth, or dungeons, that drop t2-4 cloth at a good rate, so i dont think they are a problem. Thier overall output and requirement for damask are probably in line with the output of silk and its requirements for damask.

I can understand the desire of some people to be able to farm everything for their daily needs on their own at a considerable pace. But if that was possible, we wouldnt need a trading post, which gives us the option to pay other players with gold for our wanted items.
Silk drops in general make up a good portion of the average players loot table at end game. If you devalue that too much, people who dont want to craft ascended gear, will start complaining.

John Smith mentioned that changes to the economy usually dont aim at short term fixes but rather try to solve the problem in the long term. They probably looked at silk last summer and determined its supply was not sufficient and its price too high and then adjusted their output all through season 2. By using timegated outputs (Mawdrey, Gift of Gratitude, Cloth Rack) and temporary outputs (Halloween, Wintersday) they made sure that prices will go down gradually and not crash, as they would, if you added farmable nodes all over Tyria or slashed the requirements for damask.

We also dont know what Anet has in store for us this year, feature patches, like the one last year in April that made Ascended gear account bound, seem to usually have an impact on demand as well, so they probably take future plans into the equation, when adjusting supply faucets.

The design of the system shouldnt exist to feed the TP, people will trade silk on the TP because the price people are willing to pay makes it worthwhile.

people killing mass quantities of random mobs always made the most money (farming) even when silk was 8 copper, so i dont think you really need to worry about their earnings.

It doesnt feed the tp it feeds other people through the tp, which is a great design because gives people more options to get what they want.
If you let people overproduce silk, it will go back to vendor value and i dont see anybody being happy about that.

people will not overproduce silk with intent, at least not to a drastic level. Every time the price drops, less people will supply it. at vendor price virtually no one will intentionly give their time, or focus to supplying silk.

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

Now, is this the case with silk? who knows, but we cant find out, because we cant adjust the supply.

We cant find out by adjusting supply but its not neccessary because Anet can.
They have all the metrics, of how much silk scraps and weaving threads get created per day, how much gets destroyed and how much get bought and sold at which price point.

So in the case that falling silk prices and rising silk supply dont result in added demand for damask, there is not need to further devalue it.

according to most capitalist theory, and they could be wrong, but this is the common belief,
One entity is generally considered to be inferior to the market itself at finding the right price points for items.
Complaints are generally that such an entity would be less responsive, more rigid, and have effected by concerns outside of the price of the specific good itself.

im sure economists have debated this many times, i dont think there is a 100% right answer for all situations, but in this situation i see it like this.
for a long time, anets numbers had us oversupplying silk to the point it became valueless
as a solution to that problem, Ascendeds item requirements, created a bunch of new problems, like proffesion progression inequality, an apparently high feeling of grind, increased farming activity etc.

i feel like the single entity is not currently as effecient at finding these sweet spots as many claim a more free market to be.

i generally find that items that have targetable means of supply tend to have their price more closely aligned with a value that people feel comfortable buying, supplying and selling them

i dont think we are there for silk, or leather.

But we have been oversupplying silk for months now and just because silk is not at your sweet spot, doesnt mean its not at a sweet spot for everybody else.

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

Now, is this the case with silk? who knows, but we cant find out, because we cant adjust the supply.

We cant find out by adjusting supply but its not neccessary because Anet can.
They have all the metrics, of how much silk scraps and weaving threads get created per day, how much gets destroyed and how much get bought and sold at which price point.

So in the case that falling silk prices and rising silk supply dont result in added demand for damask, there is not need to further devalue it.

according to most capitalist theory, and they could be wrong, but this is the common belief,
One entity is generally considered to be inferior to the market itself at finding the right price points for items.
Complaints are generally that such an entity would be less responsive, more rigid, and have effected by concerns outside of the price of the specific good itself.

im sure economists have debated this many times, i dont think there is a 100% right answer for all situations, but in this situation i see it like this.
for a long time, anets numbers had us oversupplying silk to the point it became valueless
as a solution to that problem, Ascendeds item requirements, created a bunch of new problems, like proffesion progression inequality, an apparently high feeling of grind, increased farming activity etc.

i feel like the single entity is not currently as effecient at finding these sweet spots as many claim a more free market to be.

i generally find that items that have targetable means of supply tend to have their price more closely aligned with a value that people feel comfortable buying, supplying and selling them

i dont think we are there for silk, or leather.

But we have been oversupplying silk for months now and just because silk is not at your sweet spot, doesnt mean its not at a sweet spot for everybody else.

The oversupplying is already over. Supply is going down and price is going up ever since Wintersday is over. What is your solution now? Introduce another festival to bring another temporary supply for silk? Or MAYBE it’s time to introduce a permanent solution? Eh?

Tom Gore.4035:

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

Now, is this the case with silk? who knows, but we cant find out, because we cant adjust the supply.

We cant find out by adjusting supply but its not neccessary because Anet can.
They have all the metrics, of how much silk scraps and weaving threads get created per day, how much gets destroyed and how much get bought and sold at which price point.

So in the case that falling silk prices and rising silk supply dont result in added demand for damask, there is not need to further devalue it.

according to most capitalist theory, and they could be wrong, but this is the common belief,
One entity is generally considered to be inferior to the market itself at finding the right price points for items.
Complaints are generally that such an entity would be less responsive, more rigid, and have effected by concerns outside of the price of the specific good itself.

im sure economists have debated this many times, i dont think there is a 100% right answer for all situations, but in this situation i see it like this.
for a long time, anets numbers had us oversupplying silk to the point it became valueless
as a solution to that problem, Ascendeds item requirements, created a bunch of new problems, like proffesion progression inequality, an apparently high feeling of grind, increased farming activity etc.

i feel like the single entity is not currently as effecient at finding these sweet spots as many claim a more free market to be.

i generally find that items that have targetable means of supply tend to have their price more closely aligned with a value that people feel comfortable buying, supplying and selling them

i dont think we are there for silk, or leather.

But we have been oversupplying silk for months now and just because silk is not at your sweet spot, doesnt mean its not at a sweet spot for everybody else.

The oversupplying is already over. Supply is going down and price is going up ever since Wintersday is over. What is your solution now? Introduce another festival to bring another temporary supply for silk? Or MAYBE it’s time to introduce a permanent solution? Eh?

I would opt for another temporary or timegated solution, like an item that consumes dragonite and gives out silk.

Wanze.8410:

Tom Gore.4035:

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

Now, is this the case with silk? who knows, but we cant find out, because we cant adjust the supply.

We cant find out by adjusting supply but its not neccessary because Anet can.
They have all the metrics, of how much silk scraps and weaving threads get created per day, how much gets destroyed and how much get bought and sold at which price point.

So in the case that falling silk prices and rising silk supply dont result in added demand for damask, there is not need to further devalue it.

according to most capitalist theory, and they could be wrong, but this is the common belief,
One entity is generally considered to be inferior to the market itself at finding the right price points for items.
Complaints are generally that such an entity would be less responsive, more rigid, and have effected by concerns outside of the price of the specific good itself.

im sure economists have debated this many times, i dont think there is a 100% right answer for all situations, but in this situation i see it like this.
for a long time, anets numbers had us oversupplying silk to the point it became valueless
as a solution to that problem, Ascendeds item requirements, created a bunch of new problems, like proffesion progression inequality, an apparently high feeling of grind, increased farming activity etc.

i feel like the single entity is not currently as effecient at finding these sweet spots as many claim a more free market to be.

i generally find that items that have targetable means of supply tend to have their price more closely aligned with a value that people feel comfortable buying, supplying and selling them

i dont think we are there for silk, or leather.

But we have been oversupplying silk for months now and just because silk is not at your sweet spot, doesnt mean its not at a sweet spot for everybody else.

The oversupplying is already over. Supply is going down and price is going up ever since Wintersday is over. What is your solution now? Introduce another festival to bring another temporary supply for silk? Or MAYBE it’s time to introduce a permanent solution? Eh?

I would opt for another temporary or timegated solution, like an item that consumes dragonite and gives out silk.

The latter I would be all over about, no doubt.

But it would again be just a temporary solution. After the initial rush of extra dragonite turned into extra silk would be gone, the problem would come back.

Are you sure you’re not opposed to getting a steady, controllable supply of silk just because the current fluctuating oversupply/undersupply makes it easier for you to make money on the TP?