Guild Wars 2

You payed for the gems. That is where it begins and ends. What you do with those gems is your choice, ArenaNet do not have to refund real money, only the gems.

Or they saw, “Ya know, a lot of people like this particular set. We could probably modify it a little and sell it on the cash shop” and completely underestimated the extent that some players would completely lose their kitten and create a forum firestorm over it.

Underestimating the player base IS something Arena.net (and most game companies, really) do regularly.

thartalion.2756:

I’ve been playing mmo’s since around 2003 and it’s the first time i experience something like that. You might say it’s cool that Anet listened to a part of the playerbase that was kitten ed with seeing T3 armor on the gemshop, but by doing this, they probably kitten ed off another group of players, like me, who actually paid money to support them.

I dunno how you can say you did it to “support them” and say you can’t trust them anymore. If it was to support them, you’d think you’d support their decision, ie that they made a mistake and are attempting to rectify it. Just seems contradictory.

Funset.7893:

Nike.2631:

Funset.7893:

The truth is that the whining minoroty on this forum does not represent the opinion of the majority.

The truth is that appeals to minority or majority are both guesswork AND meaningless.

It doesn’t matter if it infuriated 2% or 88%. They offended a basic principle. They should have known better but someone was asleep at the wheel. Now they get to settle for the lesser evil to cover a stupid mistake. There is no “fairness” involved. Just damage control.

What basic principles? The only one offended here is you.

You’re either trolling or weren’t around yesterday when pretty much every thread on the first page of gw discussion section was threads against T3 Cultural being in the gem store.

Funset.7893:

Well were are these players to rise their point? I see a thread with 17 pages and many double and triple posts. Hundreds of thousands players play this game. Why did they remove a skin based on a bunch of whiny people, who do not represent even a 1% of the gw2 playerbase? Not fair!
By this logic, they should remove the Ascended items right now.

Pretty simple, all of the other topics have been erased. But if you had been there the evening they released the armor, it was a real storming, with multiple topics opening every minute and criticizing the decision.

You say we are not the majority, but you don’t know what the majority thinks neither. So stop talking as if the silent majority is agreeing with you.

angelpaladin.7921:

thartalion.2756:

Flissy.4093:

You forget that even though you purchase the item, it still remains the property of ArenaNet and/or NCSoft.

You’ll be refunded the 800 gems. It’s so unlikely you will get your actual $ back because that would involve another retailer.

M’kay. I don’t really care who’s the owner of what here.

My point is, i bought an “apple” and now the seller is telling me “Hey, you see that guy over there? He didn’t like that i sold you an apple, so i’ll take your apple back and here’s a banana instead. Oh and if you don’t like bananas, i can give you a credit to buy more… bananas, ok?”.

Hum, no?

What he was saying is you didn’t buy anything. Technically everything in the game we rent thats how company’s can get away with changing there service at any time for any reason or discounting the service completely and get away with it. Basically everything in Guildwars 2 is the sole property of GW2. That is why its illegal to sale gold or items on sights like ebay.

Before anyone says thats not right every single game has done that from EQ to World Of Warcraft.

This really gets to the heart of the OP’s concerns. One of the things MMOs have to do, on a basic level, is give you a false sense of ownership. Well, they beat you over the head with the idea that you own nothing in the TOS but don’t actively bring it up anywhere else. That how the business runs. It has positive and negative aspects to it for us as players. Current intellectual property law, still I believe, favors the company that owns the game and not the customer in disputes over damages related to in-game content for various reasons. The only parties involved in in-game transactions that are typically on your side are the banks in the case of Credit card purchases. Actually, they aren’t really on your side either as they typically have to investigate whether or not your claim of a fraudulent transaction (if you feel shorted somehow in your purchase) is valid. They may very well still hold you responsible for the loss involved in the digital transaction. Usually, banks give more attention to issues related to physical goods, but digital? Good luck. In short, if you want the guarantee that your purchase will not be tampered with in any way by Anet, you will not get it. There’s a reason you are purchasing items with a cover currency. It’s risky business. I know.

nightwulf.1986:

angelpaladin.7921:

thartalion.2756:

Flissy.4093:

You forget that even though you purchase the item, it still remains the property of ArenaNet and/or NCSoft.

You’ll be refunded the 800 gems. It’s so unlikely you will get your actual $ back because that would involve another retailer.

M’kay. I don’t really care who’s the owner of what here.

My point is, i bought an “apple” and now the seller is telling me “Hey, you see that guy over there? He didn’t like that i sold you an apple, so i’ll take your apple back and here’s a banana instead. Oh and if you don’t like bananas, i can give you a credit to buy more… bananas, ok?”.

Hum, no?

What he was saying is you didn’t buy anything. Technically everything in the game we rent thats how company’s can get away with changing there service at any time for any reason or discounting the service completely and get away with it. Basically everything in Guildwars 2 is the sole property of GW2. That is why its illegal to sale gold or items on sights like ebay.

Before anyone says thats not right every single game has done that from EQ to World Of Warcraft.

This really gets to the heart of the OP’s concerns. One of the things MMOs have to do, on a basic level, is give you a false sense of ownership. Well, they beat you over the head with the idea that you own nothing in the TOS but don’t actively bring it up anywhere else. That how the business runs. It has positive and negative aspects to it for us as players. Current intellectual property law, still I believe, favors the company that owns the game and not the customer in disputes over damages related to in-game content for various reasons. The only parties involved in in-game transactions that are typically on your side are the banks in the case of Credit card purchases. Actually, they aren’t really on your side either as they typically have to investigate whether or not your claim of a fraudulent transaction (if you feel shorted somehow in your purchase) is valid. They may very well still hold you responsible for the loss involved in the digital transaction. Usually, banks give more attention to issues related to physical goods, but digital? Good luck. In short, if you want the guarantee that your purchase will not be tampered with in any way by Anet, you will not get it. There’s a reason you are purchasing items with a cover currency. It’s risky business. I know.

The same holds true for most software we use.

It will probably happen again.

But let’s hope it doesn’t.

Anet played with laziness and procrastination and got burned (pun anyone?).

Not only from t3 defenders, but also flame kissed buyers

They recieved hate from both sides.

Hope they learned their lesson about procrastination and utter laziness.

Actually I kinda hope they will do such thing again in the future for cultural armor. Always wanted Asura or Charr T3 for my norn warrior…

angelpaladin.7921:

nightwulf.1986:

angelpaladin.7921:

thartalion.2756:

Flissy.4093:

You forget that even though you purchase the item, it still remains the property of ArenaNet and/or NCSoft.

You’ll be refunded the 800 gems. It’s so unlikely you will get your actual $ back because that would involve another retailer.

M’kay. I don’t really care who’s the owner of what here.

My point is, i bought an “apple” and now the seller is telling me “Hey, you see that guy over there? He didn’t like that i sold you an apple, so i’ll take your apple back and here’s a banana instead. Oh and if you don’t like bananas, i can give you a credit to buy more… bananas, ok?”.

Hum, no?

What he was saying is you didn’t buy anything. Technically everything in the game we rent thats how company’s can get away with changing there service at any time for any reason or discounting the service completely and get away with it. Basically everything in Guildwars 2 is the sole property of GW2. That is why its illegal to sale gold or items on sights like ebay.

Before anyone says thats not right every single game has done that from EQ to World Of Warcraft.

This really gets to the heart of the OP’s concerns. One of the things MMOs have to do, on a basic level, is give you a false sense of ownership. Well, they beat you over the head with the idea that you own nothing in the TOS but don’t actively bring it up anywhere else. That how the business runs. It has positive and negative aspects to it for us as players. Current intellectual property law, still I believe, favors the company that owns the game and not the customer in disputes over damages related to in-game content for various reasons. The only parties involved in in-game transactions that are typically on your side are the banks in the case of Credit card purchases. Actually, they aren’t really on your side either as they typically have to investigate whether or not your claim of a fraudulent transaction (if you feel shorted somehow in your purchase) is valid. They may very well still hold you responsible for the loss involved in the digital transaction. Usually, banks give more attention to issues related to physical goods, but digital? Good luck. In short, if you want the guarantee that your purchase will not be tampered with in any way by Anet, you will not get it. There’s a reason you are purchasing items with a cover currency. It’s risky business. I know.

The same holds true for most software we use.

True enough. I was just sticking to the subject of MMOs and Guild Wars in particular to stay on topic mostly. I mean, I guess the software would have to have a software license and an online service/store to be comparable in scope to MMO-customer relationship. Even so, not many online services, that I’m aware of at least, outside of games have been using a cover currency like Gems or Crysta for transactions.

you didn’t pay $10 for the amour skin, you paid $10 for the gems. you paid the gems for the amour skin.

The skin is changed,u get ur refund of gems which is the payment for the skin.

If you want refund of $10 for the gems,then you need to understand that once gems is bought,it cannot be sold back to the company for $.

An adult customer,like yourself, should understand this concept.

For your info

TOS has 0 legal validity in MOST countries expecially EUROPE.
I would say it has 0 validity across the world but i don t know how US laws treats the matter.

TOS is only informative.

Yeah, US law is more than a little different from other countries. That’s what I was referring to. Hmmm, well, that adds a little dimension to the issue. I know that there are different consumer protection laws in other countries but to say the TOS has zero legal value, that has to be tested in court. I will assume you have a point of reference for that statement. I should look up some cases outside the US, but I have decent knowledge of how chargebacks (which is how many of these issues in the US get handled on a daily basis by consumers) are handled. Rarely, will consumers attempt to use the court system to dispute disatisfaction with a transaction for in-game goods due to the cost involved. Not to say that it doesn’t happen but it is rare. Usually, more people get involved in the court system through the use of a class-action suit than individual cases.

LordByron.8369:

For your info

TOS has 0 legal validity in MOST countries expecially EUROPE.
I would say it has 0 validity across the world but i don t know how US laws treats the matter.

TOS is only informative.

It’s completely legal in the US. There is some sticky room for contracts that actively charge money being able to be signed with a button but a ToS/EULA is completely binding in the US. People will try to act like ignorance makes them exempt from its contents but it was their choice to just mash “accept” without reading the thing. It’s all kind of silly anyway since virtually every single EULA regarding virtual goods exempts the buyer from all claims of ownership and is fairly common knowledge.

Anet could literally close the servers tomorrow forever and none of us could do a kitten thing about it.

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

you didn’t pay $10 for the amour skin, you paid $10 for the gems. you paid the gems for the amour skin.

The skin is changed,u get ur refund of gems which is the payment for the skin.

If you want refund of $10 for the gems,then you need to understand that once gems is bought,it cannot be sold back to the company for $.

An adult customer,like yourself, should understand this concept.

They can get their money back. It called an exception to policy and companies make exceptions to policy all the time, especially when it serves their interests, such as trying to get out of doing more to make things right when they’ve done something wrong. If giving back money keeps them from losing customers or having to do work that would cost more or just gets to be easier than fielding complaints, then eventually they’ll give back money.

I suspect its more smoething in the “eula” have legal value even without the eula…

I really doubt i can write in the eula nobody reads “if you accept this your house, car and bank account will become ANET property”.

On the opposite its legal to write “we give you a service you have to respect common sense rules in order to have right on the service”

Now if you buy something with real moneys and you don t get what you paid for….i think you are totally entitled for a money refund.

And i d bet its the same in every part of the world….
The double transaction has no relevance either…

Im 100% sure for europe btw

MisterEction.9382:

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

you didn’t pay $10 for the amour skin, you paid $10 for the gems. you paid the gems for the amour skin.

The skin is changed,u get ur refund of gems which is the payment for the skin.

If you want refund of $10 for the gems,then you need to understand that once gems is bought,it cannot be sold back to the company for $.

An adult customer,like yourself, should understand this concept.

They can get their money back. It called an exception to policy and companies make exceptions to policy all the time, especially when it serves their interests, such as trying to get out of doing more to make things right when they’ve done something wrong. If giving back money keeps them from losing customers or having to do work that would cost more or just gets to be easier than fielding complaints, then eventually they’ll give back money.

Thanks for the info.

I don’t understand why anet dont just stick one of the old gw1 armor with effects in the gem store. they’d make way more profit with out complaints too. because that is what we the consumers want, and have stated many times. it also reduce their work load since they already got those armors.

pho.9412:

I don’t understand why anet dont just stick one of the old gw1 armor with effects in the gem store. they’d make way more profit with out complaints too. because that is what we the consumers want, and have stated many times. it also reduce their work load since they already got those armors.

I still want my Kurzick and Luxon Assassin armor or something like it. Q_Q

talk to your credit card company, do a charge back with the claims of fraud. which is exactly what this is Anet advertised one item then turns around and says they are giving you a different one even though you already paid for it.

I work for a credit card company and have seen charge backs for a lot less.

thartalion.2756:

Hello,

First post here, played since pre-launch and spent a fair amount of money in this game (a few hundreds, actually). Anyway, i’m one of the evil players that bought the Flamekissed armor skin. I did it with 800 gems that i bought for 10,00$.

Now it will be removed from the game (or replaced by something i didn’t pay for). If i read correctly, i’ll be able to get a full refund by contacting support. We’re not talking about the 800 gems, but the 10,00$, right? Because i honnestly don’t care about those gems… but i did care about that skin.

My main concern is : will it happen again? It’s actually the first time in my life that i buy something and it’s “replaced” without my concent after my money was taken away from my wallet. As an adult customer, i’m a bit in shock right now. How can i sincerely put any more money in your gemshop, knowing that my purchase might be temporary or that it might change eventually because someone else isn’t happy with it?

What am i supposed to think about all this?

Want the t3 skin? Turn your gems into gold and buy it. Anet made a mistake and they’re rectifying it. If there had been a bug and something was unintentionally released and you bought it then the same thing would have happened. Anet would remove the item and compensate you accordingly.

Khallis.5708:

talk to your credit card company, do a charge back with the claims of fraud. which is exactly what this is Anet advertised one item then turns around and says they are giving you a different one even though you already paid for it.

I work for a credit card company and have seen charge backs for a lot less.

Do this if you want to be banned.

Khallis.5708:

talk to your credit card company, do a charge back with the claims of fraud. which is exactly what this is Anet advertised one item then turns around and says they are giving you a different one even though you already paid for it.

I work for a credit card company and have seen charge backs for a lot less.

lol you really think a company that sells digital lottery boxes doesn’t already have something in place to combat fraudulent charge backs?

i think contacting support is enough….

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

you didn’t pay $10 for the amour skin, you paid $10 for the gems. you paid the gems for the amour skin.

The skin is changed,u get ur refund of gems which is the payment for the skin.

If you want refund of $10 for the gems,then you need to understand that once gems is bought,it cannot be sold back to the company for $.

An adult customer,like yourself, should understand this concept.

Well guess what? As an adult customer, i won’t buy gems anymore. And we’re not talking about only one account here, but three (my wife and daughter also play).

Back when i played another mmo, if I liked an item promoted in their online store, everything was simple : “Item A is 15,00$ USD, do you want it?”. It’s a direct sale, so if something like this happens, you get your refund. Simple as that.

Protoavis.9107:

I dunno how you can say you did it to “support them” and say you can’t trust them anymore. If it was to support them, you’d think you’d support their decision, ie that they made a mistake and are attempting to rectify it. Just seems contradictory.

Like i said, i spent hundreds of dollars on this game since pre-launch. I’ve seen numerous mistakes followed by excuses, closed my eyes on so many bugs (and i’ve worked as a videogame tester for 3 years, can’t believe what they let through sometimes). I’ve supported them with all my heart, but this issue feels like cheap and false advertisement.

When i got promoted to manager, the first thing they told me was to be open to my staff’s concern, but in the end, i’ll be the one taking the decisions. If you start listening to everyone’s concern, you’ll eventually lose control (because it’s impossible to please everyone) and in the long run, it’s your whole team’s integrity that will be affected.

I know people like the fact that “Anet listened to their playerbase”, but they can’t do that every time a group is mad at something. How many people didn’t like the fact that T3 reskin was sold in the gemshop VS how many people who actually bought the skin.

That is my concern and that’s why i made my first post on this forum.

thatrtalion wouldn t be just easier to contact support and get an official answer? rather than trusting random posters on a forum (i am also a random poster…no offense intended).

thartalion.2756:

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

you didn’t pay $10 for the amour skin, you paid $10 for the gems. you paid the gems for the amour skin.

The skin is changed,u get ur refund of gems which is the payment for the skin.

If you want refund of $10 for the gems,then you need to understand that once gems is bought,it cannot be sold back to the company for $.

An adult customer,like yourself, should understand this concept.

Well guess what? As an adult customer, i won’t buy gems anymore. And we’re not talking about only one account here, but three (my wife and daughter also play).

Back when i played another mmo, if I liked an item promoted in their online store, everything was simple : “Item A is 15,00$ USD, do you want it?”. It’s a direct sale, so if something like this happens, you get your refund. Simple as that.

Protoavis.9107:

I dunno how you can say you did it to “support them” and say you can’t trust them anymore. If it was to support them, you’d think you’d support their decision, ie that they made a mistake and are attempting to rectify it. Just seems contradictory.

Like i said, i spent hundreds of dollars on this game since pre-launch. I’ve seen numerous mistakes followed by excuses, closed my eyes on so many bugs (and i’ve worked as a videogame tester for 3 years, can’t believe what they let through sometimes). I’ve supported them with all my heart, but this issue feels like cheap and false advertisement.

When i got promoted to manager, the first thing they told me was to be open to my staff’s concern, but in the end, i’ll be the one taking the decisions. If you start listening to everyone’s concern, you’ll eventually lose control (because it’s impossible to please everyone) and in the long run, it’s your whole team’s integrity that will be affected.

I know people like the fact that “Anet listened to their playerbase”, but they can’t do that every time a group is mad at something. How many people didn’t like the fact that T3 reskin was sold in the gemshop VS how many people who actually bought the skin.

That is my concern and that’s why i made my first post on this forum.

You’d have a point if Anet wasn’t wrong to have done it in the first place.

Listening to their player base is completely wrong when they’ve done it right. But correcting and error was the right thing to do.

If you wish to stop supporting the company because they did the right thing…and it was the right thing…then so be it.

But the three people they lose would have probably been a lot more if they hadn’t done it.

the correction harmes another part of players……the fact you are not between makes it irrelevant….

And since nobody tried to find a fair solution to both sides i just feel anet did it even worse, and that people thread with compliments to anet are totally sign of a selfish community…

My personal point of view….
You read really few posts concerning for the other side……

I strongly believe there are muliple ways to make everyone happy….but people who got what they wanted don t even care…

LordByron.8369:

thatrtalion wouldn t be just easier to contact support and get an official answer? rather than trusting random posters on a forum (i am also a random poster…no offense intended).

I’d like an official statement on this, because i know i’m not alone in this situation. It’s not just about me.

Everyone seems happy that they listened to people who complained in the first place. I want people like me, who spent 10,00$ on this, to feel the same way.

thartalion.2756:

Hello,

First post here, played since pre-launch and spent a fair amount of money in this game (a few hundreds, actually). Anyway, i’m one of the evil players that bought the Flamekissed armor skin. I did it with 800 gems that i bought for 10,00$.

Now it will be removed from the game (or replaced by something i didn’t pay for). If i read correctly, i’ll be able to get a full refund by contacting support. We’re not talking about the 800 gems, but the 10,00$, right? Because i honnestly don’t care about those gems… but i did care about that skin.

My main concern is : will it happen again? It’s actually the first time in my life that i buy something and it’s “replaced” without my concent after my money was taken away from my wallet. As an adult customer, i’m a bit in shock right now. How can i sincerely put any more money in your gemshop, knowing that my purchase might be temporary or that it might change eventually because someone else isn’t happy with it?

What am i supposed to think about all this?

Anet took a hit and that’s not reversible. Putting a texture on the gem store that was 100% T3 human cultural was the first mistake made. The 2nd mistake was writing an apology that made no sense at all and the 3rd mistake was taking it out of the gem store with the promise of an remake without a set dead line and that people didn’t paid for. Anet lacks to see that the mistake was clearly on their hand and that this should have a better outcome than reimbursing gem stones and removing the content from the store itself.

thartalion.2756:

Hello,

First post here, played since pre-launch and spent a fair amount of money in this game (a few hundreds, actually). Anyway, i’m one of the evil players that bought the Flamekissed armor skin. I did it with 800 gems that i bought for 10,00$.

Now it will be removed from the game (or replaced by something i didn’t pay for). If i read correctly, i’ll be able to get a full refund by contacting support. We’re not talking about the 800 gems, but the 10,00$, right? Because i honnestly don’t care about those gems… but i did care about that skin.

My main concern is : will it happen again? It’s actually the first time in my life that i buy something and it’s “replaced” without my concent after my money was taken away from my wallet. As an adult customer, i’m a bit in shock right now. How can i sincerely put any more money in your gemshop, knowing that my purchase might be temporary or that it might change eventually because someone else isn’t happy with it?

What am i supposed to think about all this?

Get over it. There will be more skins/other items in the future. And who says you won’t like the new skin, bla bla.

I honestly hope that the people who made good faith purchases of gems specifically to buy the new armor skin can get their money refunded if they do not care for the revised form of the new skin when it comes out.

Even if ANet does not HAVE to offer a cash refund to those asking for such it would be a good idea to do so. Keeping a given customer’s ten bucks at the risk of losing future business is a bad idea. Even if the customer does eventually spend money on gems again there is a decent chance that his dissatisfaction will cost ANet more than the ten dollars. Remember that the customer asking for a refund is not trying to return some heavily used or damaged product that Anet cannot resell. We are talking about virtual tokens that Anet can produce at will.

For what it is worth, pursuing a credit card charge back for a product which you have not used (gems that exist in your “wallet” are unused), which you are willing to return, and which cannot be used for the purpose, advertised by the merchant, for which you purchased it is not fraudulent.

Remember that at the time those gems were purchased ANet advertised that they could be used to acquire the Flame Touched armor skin. Since they cannot actually be used for the advertised purpose the consumer does have grounds for a charge back.

slurpey.6014:

thartalion.2756:

Hello,

First post here, played since pre-launch and spent a fair amount of money in this game (a few hundreds, actually). Anyway, i’m one of the evil players that bought the Flamekissed armor skin. I did it with 800 gems that i bought for 10,00$.

Now it will be removed from the game (or replaced by something i didn’t pay for). If i read correctly, i’ll be able to get a full refund by contacting support. We’re not talking about the 800 gems, but the 10,00$, right? Because i honnestly don’t care about those gems… but i did care about that skin.

My main concern is : will it happen again? It’s actually the first time in my life that i buy something and it’s “replaced” without my concent after my money was taken away from my wallet. As an adult customer, i’m a bit in shock right now. How can i sincerely put any more money in your gemshop, knowing that my purchase might be temporary or that it might change eventually because someone else isn’t happy with it?

What am i supposed to think about all this?

Anet took a hit and that’s not reversible. Putting a texture on the gem store that was 100% T3 human cultural was the first mistake made. The 2nd mistake was writing an apology in which Anet calls all of us idiots, watch I get my infraction for this tonight, yet they won’t apologize for calling us that and the 3rd mistake was taking it out of the gem store with the promise of an remake without a set dead line.

4th mistake – They only apologized to the people who wanted the skin taken away from others, and not the people who bought the skin that they are taking the skin away from.

5th mistake – They are giving no indications of any concern for the satisfaction of those people that they are taking the skin away from.

This bait and switch fiasco makes buying BLC keys and playing the RNG game a fantastic deal !

From a purely legal perspective, when you agreed to the EULA prior to playing this game you also agreed to:

4. ACCOUNT AND PAYMENTS TO NCSOFT

d. Gems — You may obtain Gems from NCSOFT (or a third party authorized by NCSOFT) for use in connection with the Game. Gems are a virtual currency which you may, in NCSOFT’s sole and absolute discretion, exchange for Items, services or access to other specific forms of Content not otherwise available without Gems. The Items, services or access to other specific forms of Content offered by NCSOFT in exchange for Gems may be discontinued, modified or removed from the Account by NCSOFT at any time in its sole and absolute discretion.

• source – Legal documentation link at the bottom of this page

Take a look at that last sentence.
Technically they don’t have to do anything, but that would be a huge customer service mistake.
They are doing the best they can as a result of their error in judgement in hopes of continuing / regaining customer trust.

Now, as far as getting $10.00 placed back on your credit cards in lieu of gems , that’s something you would need to take up directly with Customer service.

ok, people… about the TOS…

I asked a lawyer friend (in EU, not USA) and she said that even though it’s not a legal and binding document in some countries, the fact that you digitally “agreed” to it makes it binding for you, and is terribly difficult to dispute solely based upon regional law. There would have to be something more fraudulent involved before many law professionals would take the case.

As far as this situation, I was one of the people on the angry side of the fence. I can say with some certainty that it wasn’t the fact that T3 armor was available in the TP so much as it was the idea that only the Humans were affected. There were many posts that said rather than take the human T3 out, put the rest in, which was immediately answered with angry posts from other “races” about how it was ok to put Humans in, but “you better not touch (insert race here) armor.”

In my opinion, the solution that ANet came up with was far more preferential than what they could have said.

Enjoy your armor for a while, OP, and then if you don’t like the replacement, get your gems back. If you want your Real Money back then take it up with Customer Service. The forums can’t help you there.

Ashabhi.1365:

ok, people… about the TOS…

I asked a lawyer friend (in EU, not USA) and she said that even though it’s not a legal and binding document in some countries, the fact that you digitally “agreed” to it makes it binding for you, and is terribly difficult to dispute solely based upon regional law. There would have to be something more fraudulent involved before many law professionals would take the case..

this goes totally in the opposite direction of what my law says so forgive me if i won t believe “your friend”.

Unfortunately i have issues translating the law that clearly defines the limits of a ToS ….
But it specifically says that your digital “Agreement” means exactly nothing…….

Afaik its more because in some regions some sort of law ignorance is tolerated thus they need you to read them.

Example the writings on rear mirrors in USA about object in the mirrors…..or to not put your cat in the microwave on the intruction booklet.

The tos is legal if what is inside it is legal….but your Agreement or not means nothing.

Flissy.4093:

thartalion.2756:

Flissy.4093:

You forget that even though you purchase the item, it still remains the property of ArenaNet and/or NCSoft.

You’ll be refunded the 800 gems. It’s so unlikely you will get your actual $ back because that would involve another retailer.

M’kay. I don’t really care who’s the owner of what here.

My point is, i bought an “apple” and now the seller is telling me “Hey, you see that guy over there? He didn’t like that i sold you an apple, so i’ll take your apple back and here’s a banana instead. Oh and if you don’t like bananas, i can give you a credit to buy more… bananas, ok?”.

Hum, no?

They can do what they like with their property and there’s nothing you can do about it. At most, they’ll lose a customer.

This is a logical fallacy I often seen on forums in MMOs. ArenaNet in fact will likely lose thousands and thousands of customers that this one customer is representative of. This concept is how one person answering a survey, for example, can represent thousands in a research study.

And this is what boggles my mind about this decision. The number of paying customers that will, in essence, have been baited and switched and will not spend more real cash in the cash shop could be very large. It doesn’t matter if the EULA covers them legally, I can’t see how the brand is not severely hurt by this, moreso than opening the cultural armor door (which probably isn’t the worse thing in the world).

Once again before a flame starts remember that Anet never said they won t refund….nor their position about Eula etc…..

one thing is discussing eula another thing is discussing anet….we need to keep those separated or a mod could close the thread.

I’m sure you could’ve read forums or even map chat and assuming that you don’t live under a rock you could have realized that this skin was highly controversial and was likely to be changed.

Don’t give in to the flashy flashy next time and use your head.

It’s funny because I spent 50$ or so for a game that didn’t have grind and vertical progression and they changed it because some people didn’t like it and wanted something to farm and I’ve been kind of feeling the same way

But in both mine and your case dear OP you’ll find that Anet’s and other player’s response will be the same: Booyah.

Razor.6392:

I’m sure you could’ve read forums or even map chat and assuming that you don’t live under a rock you could have realized that this skin was highly controversial and was likely to be changed.

Don’t give in to the flashy flashy next time and use your head.

to tell the truth as owner of 60 fotm WEAPONS, on 10 of wich i used trasmutation crystals…
And as Fractal runner seeing my year progressoin down the drain

i could certainly not suspect anything to be done about it.

Quizotic.2815:

honestly with all the whining I think they should just remove all racial armor for a few days to make everyone appreciate what they have more, and realize its better to share than to run around screaming “MINE” like a 5 year old, the skin are over a year old gtf over it

That would work well if 1. You didn’t have to roll a race for armor, 2. People who spent hours, gold got a reroll to another race of their choosing but we know this will not happen. This isn’t about sharing this about the fact Anet made race specific armor and no race changes for a reason then sells gem shop version for 33% of the cost, none of the time or having to play that race, so stop being selfish.

Funny, you’re like the whiny kid who has a choice of what toy he wants, then wants what another has and still keep their same toy.

Quizotic.2815:

honestly with all the whining I think they should just remove all racial armor for a few days to make everyone appreciate what they have more, and realize its better to share than to run around screaming “MINE” like a 5 year old, the skin are over a year old gtf over it

way to prove you side of the “issue” buy insulting berating people and calling them names the fact that your “post” has yet to be deleted shocks me

Are they removing the skin they just put in?

We did not need yet another separate thread on this issue.

Can a mod please merge this with one of the other dozen or so threads on this issue?

LordByron.8369:

/snip

this goes totally in the opposite direction of what my law says so forgive me if i won t believe “your friend”.

Unfortunately i have issues translating the law that clearly defines the limits of a ToS ….
But it specifically says that your digital “Agreement” means exactly nothing…….

Afaik its more because in some regions some sort of law ignorance is tolerated thus they need you to read them.

Example the writings on rear mirrors in USA about object in the mirrors…..or to not put your cat in the microwave on the intruction booklet.

The tos is legal if what is inside it is legal….but your Agreement or not means nothing.

Ok, cool… so your law disagrees with my friend. So what? I was expressing an opinion of one law professional, not all law professionals.

In any case, the OP was whether or not it could happen again.

The answer is yes. They could make myriad other mistakes and fix them at any time. If people are unhappy with what they do, and can’t get “satisfaction” through support, then there are only two options: 1) Live with it and 2) quit.

Flissy.4093:

Lighter.5631:

Flissy.4093:

Lighter.5631:

the better possible solution is keep the ones that are already bought and remove it from TP.

And make a super-exclusive-extra-shiny-mega-limited-ultra-rare discontinued version of the most popular light cultural armor and suddenly make some accounts worth $1000s if sold illegally?

That’s more damaging than actually keeping the armor available.

so i guess my super sexy exclusive extra shiny megae limited braham’s shield and other stuff already made my account $10000 worth

Not at all. This armor is ridiculously popular and a reason SO many make Human light characters. Having an “upgraded” version of this is what would make an account illegally worth a small fortune.

But in time, yes, discontinued items can, infact, make accounts worth a bunch illegally, talking GW2, Ghastly Grinning Shield for one could illegally be sold for $100s. If we talk other games, I will use RuneScape as an example as I’m sure many have played that, a few years ago there we items that made accounts worth $10,000s. That could spiral into the same, just from things being discontinued.

But now this is getting sketchy and I’ve had far too many infractions recently.

many people are jealous of my braham shield tho, and other limited stuff.

Vayne.8563:

thartalion.2756:

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

you didn’t pay $10 for the amour skin, you paid $10 for the gems. you paid the gems for the amour skin.

The skin is changed,u get ur refund of gems which is the payment for the skin.

If you want refund of $10 for the gems,then you need to understand that once gems is bought,it cannot be sold back to the company for $.

An adult customer,like yourself, should understand this concept.

Well guess what? As an adult customer, i won’t buy gems anymore. And we’re not talking about only one account here, but three (my wife and daughter also play).

Back when i played another mmo, if I liked an item promoted in their online store, everything was simple : “Item A is 15,00$ USD, do you want it?”. It’s a direct sale, so if something like this happens, you get your refund. Simple as that.

Protoavis.9107:

I dunno how you can say you did it to “support them” and say you can’t trust them anymore. If it was to support them, you’d think you’d support their decision, ie that they made a mistake and are attempting to rectify it. Just seems contradictory.

Like i said, i spent hundreds of dollars on this game since pre-launch. I’ve seen numerous mistakes followed by excuses, closed my eyes on so many bugs (and i’ve worked as a videogame tester for 3 years, can’t believe what they let through sometimes). I’ve supported them with all my heart, but this issue feels like cheap and false advertisement.

When i got promoted to manager, the first thing they told me was to be open to my staff’s concern, but in the end, i’ll be the one taking the decisions. If you start listening to everyone’s concern, you’ll eventually lose control (because it’s impossible to please everyone) and in the long run, it’s your whole team’s integrity that will be affected.

I know people like the fact that “Anet listened to their playerbase”, but they can’t do that every time a group is mad at something. How many people didn’t like the fact that T3 reskin was sold in the gemshop VS how many people who actually bought the skin.

That is my concern and that’s why i made my first post on this forum.

You’d have a point if Anet wasn’t wrong to have done it in the first place.

Listening to their player base is completely wrong when they’ve done it right. But correcting and error was the right thing to do.

If you wish to stop supporting the company because they did the right thing…and it was the right thing…then so be it.

But the three people they lose would have probably been a lot more if they hadn’t done it.

Lol genius, I was just reading in this forum: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/The-Great-MMO-Migration/page/5#post3281595 where you where talking about how they do not exist a consensus of people or a majority of people agreeing. Yet here you are defending Anet changing this because they made a mistake. And why is it a mistake? Maybe because a big group of people thinks it is a mistake. But thats not possible if I read your other thread.

No offense but in your quest to defend Anet all the time you end up contradicting yourself.

Or is it this time indeed a mistake not because the (according to you non existing) consensus of people or a majority of people agreeing t is but because you agree this is a mistake?

I am really trying to follow you but with you contradicting yourself multiple times I really have to conclude every time again that it’s just the sake of defending Anet that drives you.