Guild Wars 2

Forum bug. Sigh.

Ok ANet. I’ll handle this.

As one who did it even before WWW map rotation was changed I think it’s a good change as 100% was linked to the gifts needed for “legendary”, so more or less was required for them, but …

Title and “star” are not required for anything and they should be reserved for players who are willing to do full map completion including WWW. I’m even OK that those two will be disabled as new maps are added/extended and require exploring new ones to re-enable them.

What’s next, giving GW HOM titles/skins to anyone?

Not everyone wants world completion for the legendary. Some of us just like to see the 100%.

I think this may also have to do with the incoming changes to precursors. If a significant portion of the community manage to be able to craft their precursors then they will be working towards the rest, potentially flooding the servers with players who just want to do map completion and not engage with WvW objectives. That would probably drive the WvW community up the wall.

So here’s another suggestion:

those characters who map-complete PvE get a gold star and 1 Gift of Exploration. Those who map-complete WvW get a blood-heart and 1 Gift of exploration. Those who have done both have already gotten 2 Gifts of exploration, but they also get a purple diamond showing that they cared for both.

Seriously I am torn on this whole topic. Had it not been for the map completion, I probably never would have set foot into WvW because of my extremely bad experiences with PvP in other MMOs. And then I would have missed out on the best mode this game has, although it seems to have been forgotten by ANet.

In sheer contrast to what a majority of you think, WvW communities are welcoming, friendly, engaged and very educated in my experience. I have learned waaaaay more things about game mechanics and my classes in WvW than I would have ever learned as an AI killer. I rarely ever die on Vinewrath, even on my mesmer, since I have learned to dodge, position myself, take care of myself, develop counter measures. It has made my game experience so much richer.
And, no matter what you think, there are no Gankers in WvW. That’s exactly what’s not happening. Those who feel ganked greatly overestimate their importance. Ganking means spawn-camping lowbies and annoy them to the bones. There is no such thing in WvW. Understand the game mode, look for a group and nothing bad will happen.

On the other hand it obviously was a bad idea from the start to think that a majority of players will try out something they are afraid of if they are somewhat forced to do so. It was a bad decision, even if it helped me personally to overcome my shyness and be rewarded with hours of fun. People tend to not venture off their beaten tracks these days, sadly.

So be it. But please, ANet, rediscover your forgotten 4th game mode, WvW.

PvM and PvP should have always had different reward systems. This is a great move – and about time!

I’m both kinda sad and relieved at the same time.

One one hand, i initially found that annoying to enter WvW for my map completetion, but now, i’ll miss those epic moments, if you ran with a bunch of players to a tower, took it over, contributed to your homeserver AND got that POI and vista you needed.

The badges of honor are an extra bonus – speaking of which, don’t do most players go for world-completion to get the “Gift of Exploration” anyways? Because you’d still need to go into WvW for badges, to make a legendary, so i guess we still can call it “PvPvE”…? (aside from the fact, that you often need to kill vet or champ-mobs)

Makes the removal of world completion in WvW less of a big deal then.
At least, badges of honor encourage active particitipation in defends/raids.

I personaly think, making each borderlands share the same map-completion progression would have been the better change, but w/e. Most WvW and PvE players are probably happy about the upcoming change.

wauwi.9162:

The badges of honor are an extra bonus – speaking of which, don’t do most players go for world-completion to get the “Gift of Exploration” anyways? Because you’d still need to go into WvW for badges, to make a legendary, so i guess we still can call it “PvPvE”…? (aside from the fact, that you often need to kill vet or champ-mobs)

You also get badges from the achievement chests. WvW is no longer in any way required for legendary weapons with this change.

Theftwind.8976:

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

As somebody earlier already mentioned, it’s only about 4%. And it’s actually the easiest part, if you’re lucky with your server and rotation. And even if you are unlucky on either or both, it just takes time, a lot of patience and frustration, and not an ounce of skill…

I have finished the wvw maps on multiple characters, by just waiting and waiting and waiting…. Oh and by respawning, being killed while running unarmed, naked (before the armor damage cost removal) and respawning again. I’m back at waiting again (will at least be a month total) for our server to finally turn blue so I can finally finish the wvw maps on two more characters…

What gets me is the pattern is endemic in all games. After a certain point in time the game begins to “dumb down” or be made easier to appease those that cannot be bothered to work at something. Eventually there are flashing neon signs pointing the way, thinking and planning become secondary to following the crowd, dungeons become scripted where everyone does exactly what is needed to be done to get it done in record time, innovation is gone. The game starts to hold your hand and at that point I start searching for new horizons.

I don’t see how removing the annoyance of having to do WvW maps is making the game easier… In WvW, you have three identical maps, that don’t require any skill. Just luck. Take today, for instance. I wanted that SP in the south of the borderland (near the spiders). We’re red (again and again and again, but I have even more characters…), so it is the commune version. I was happily communing with it, when some red person comes along and kills me. I was communing! He could have waited 5 seconds and then kill me, I would have had my skill and he would have had his ego stroked: I killed a non-fighting person! Now, only the second part was true and I had even more annoyance while mapping WvW.

Bristingr.5034:

Why Anet? What’s the point of it being called WORLD completion, if they don’t even have to explore the entire world of the game anymore?

Because not everyone wants to play PvP content, and should not be forced to do so?

i have done 8 map completions over the time i have played this game, but im not sore like some people seem to be about this change. i think its a great move for anet, it now means your not forced into a game mode that people either dont want to do or have no idea what to do. GG anet thank you for listening and keep up the good work

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

Theftwind.8976:

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

As somebody earlier already mentioned, it’s only about 4%. And it’s actually the easiest part, if you’re lucky with your server and rotation. And even if you are unlucky on either or both, it just takes time, a lot of patience and frustration, and not an ounce of skill…

I have finished the wvw maps on multiple characters, by just waiting and waiting and waiting…. Oh and by respawning, being killed while running unarmed, naked (before the armor damage cost removal) and respawning again. I’m back at waiting again (will at least be a month total) for our server to finally turn blue so I can finally finish the wvw maps on two more characters…

What gets me is the pattern is endemic in all games. After a certain point in time the game begins to “dumb down” or be made easier to appease those that cannot be bothered to work at something. Eventually there are flashing neon signs pointing the way, thinking and planning become secondary to following the crowd, dungeons become scripted where everyone does exactly what is needed to be done to get it done in record time, innovation is gone. The game starts to hold your hand and at that point I start searching for new horizons.

I don’t see how removing the annoyance of having to do WvW maps is making the game easier… In WvW, you have three identical maps, that don’t require any skill. Just luck. Take today, for instance. I wanted that SP in the south of the borderland (near the spiders). We’re red (again and again and again, but I have even more characters…), so it is the commune version. I was happily communing with it, when some red person comes along and kills me. I was communing! He could have waited 5 seconds and then kill me, I would have had my skill and he would have had his ego stroked: I killed a non-fighting person! Now, only the second part was true and I had even more annoyance while mapping WvW.

Indeed. What exactly is being dumbed down Theftwind? PvEers were running through the maps to get POIs or killing mobs to get a skill point, not to do real WvW objectives and fight. This actually makes WvW more pure and hard core since it gets rid of people who are there but not WvWing but are PvEing, as well as tying up queue slots on busy servers.

Didn’t think they’d actually do this but great change, thanks for listening.

Btw, did you guys know that even before this change you could buy a legendary? :OOOO No WvW required.

There should be three map completions: 1 for pve maps, 1 for wvw maps, 1 for both combined. This way, everyone gets what they want and the hardcore people can have an achievement for both completions.

If WvW is apart of world completion then dungeons and the spvp map(s) should be in it too.

I am happy about this change and I’m speaking with 5 world comps under my belt.

This is amazing. Having to do the WvW maps was making me never ever want to do Map Completion. A fresh reason to play!

Zardos.6230:

This is amazing. Having to do the WvW maps was making me never ever want to do Map Completion. A fresh reason to play!

I feel the same way. After this update I will be happy to log into my other characters and finish their map completion. Some only have one map left with a corner of WvW, others I didn’t even bother mapping because I knew I had to wait for three color rotations in WvW. WvW mapping was never difficult, but it came down to pure luck and made the mapping experience extremely discouraging (for me at least).

I have done world completion on 3 characters “the old way.” I’m on a server that doesn’t do very well with WvW (not the worst, but we are red a LOT) and found it would sometimes take me months unless I found a group of people also working for World Completion. I got lucky a couple of times at 3 or 4 am local time, but outside of that it was nothing more than horrible frustration and crawling slowly forward. I hated it.

Now, I can get world completion on all my characters (something I planned to do eventually anyway) and then play WvW when I feel like it instead of when I HAVE to. Honestly, being forced there for world completion made me enjoy it a lot less than when I played on my own terms with my finished level 80 character. I am excited for WvW to become enjoyable for me instead of just a product of something I HAVE to wade through to get at different content.

Besides, last I checked, Gift of Battle is still required for legendaries. People will still try WvW, and if they don’t want to, then they really shouldn’t be forced into it anyway. It’s a game, not a chore.

Fine. Then take out ALL badges of Honor from the Achievement Chests. If they want the Gift of Battle, they still need to do the WvW aspect of it and not just get the easy way out.

Bristingr.5034:

Fine. Then take out ALL badges of Honor from the Achievement Chests. If they want the Gift of Battle, they still need to do the WvW aspect of it and not just get the easy way out.

When I heard about that rank change, I stockpiled Gift of Battles with Badges of Honor I got with AP chests, so nope lol!

Got 5 of them sitting in my bank right now just in case I wanted to make a legendary and I never play WvW.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

Theftwind.8976:

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

As somebody earlier already mentioned, it’s only about 4%. And it’s actually the easiest part, if you’re lucky with your server and rotation. And even if you are unlucky on either or both, it just takes time, a lot of patience and frustration, and not an ounce of skill…

I have finished the wvw maps on multiple characters, by just waiting and waiting and waiting…. Oh and by respawning, being killed while running unarmed, naked (before the armor damage cost removal) and respawning again. I’m back at waiting again (will at least be a month total) for our server to finally turn blue so I can finally finish the wvw maps on two more characters…

What gets me is the pattern is endemic in all games. After a certain point in time the game begins to “dumb down” or be made easier to appease those that cannot be bothered to work at something. Eventually there are flashing neon signs pointing the way, thinking and planning become secondary to following the crowd, dungeons become scripted where everyone does exactly what is needed to be done to get it done in record time, innovation is gone. The game starts to hold your hand and at that point I start searching for new horizons.

I don’t see how removing the annoyance of having to do WvW maps is making the game easier… In WvW, you have three identical maps, that don’t require any skill. Just luck. Take today, for instance. I wanted that SP in the south of the borderland (near the spiders). We’re red (again and again and again, but I have even more characters…), so it is the commune version. I was happily communing with it, when some red person comes along and kills me. I was communing! He could have waited 5 seconds and then kill me, I would have had my skill and he would have had his ego stroked: I killed a non-fighting person! Now, only the second part was true and I had even more annoyance while mapping WvW.

Indeed. What exactly is being dumbed down Theftwind? PvEers were running through the maps to get POIs or killing mobs to get a skill point, not to do real WvW objectives and fight. This actually makes WvW more pure and hard core since it gets rid of people who are there but not WvWing but are PvEing, as well as tying up queue slots on busy servers.

No content is being made easier.

But the Been There. Done That. achievement got easier to complete as did making a legendary. And map completion was the last thing that actually required you to actually leave the citadel areas in WvW where you’re invincible.

And it removes one source of new blood to WvW. There are some map completers who found out they really enjoyed WvW after reluctantly going in the first time for map completion.

And it removes one source of new blood to WvW. There are some map completers who found out they really enjoyed WvW after reluctantly going in the first time for map completion.

I’ve seen this expressed a couple times, and I really disagree. WvW should not be reliant on inflows of players who are trying to finish off world completion. (be it for a legendary item or something else) Recruitment should be happening at earlier stages of a player’s experience with GW2, and not as the unpleasant surprise that the current experience can be. (“Guess where the last 4% of your world completion is? A completely different game mode that subjects you to getting ganked if you go out on your own!”)

I understand that WvW, like any game mode, needs an influx of players trying it out for the first time. But I think that its current role in world completion is a poor example of that, since it only recruits characters who have significant investment and interest in a different game mode. And even then, it doesn’t really require them to participate in WvW proper, but to just run to a list of locations currently held by their server and wait for other spots to flip.

Softspoken.2410:

Rauderi.8706:

With the new daily structure, the incentive to go to WvW is much gentler, rather than a “no dessert unless you finish your WvWegetables,” which could mean a lot less resentment.

I could be wrong about this, but it also seems that WvW dailies encourage people to accomplish generally useful WvW goals. By comparison, world completion in WvW maps only required people to run to points of interest and get the hell out before the tower flipped again and they were killed by another server. And that behaviour doesn’t seem especially helpful, honestly.

Not necessarily – sometimes people don’t defend camps just so they can cap them back later for their daily, which isn’t all that helpful either.

As someone who initially only went to wvw for map completion and who now spends probably 90% of their time in wvw, I am a little sad that there is now one incentive less for people to try wvw.

Removing WvW from world completion is a return (although probably inadvertent) to the way things used to be:

“The Mists is not located on any continent and does not contribute to any Cartographer and Vanquisher titles.”

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Mists

Softspoken.2410:

And it removes one source of new blood to WvW. There are some map completers who found out they really enjoyed WvW after reluctantly going in the first time for map completion.

I’ve seen this expressed a couple times, and I really disagree. WvW should not be reliant on inflows of players who are trying to finish off world completion. (be it for a legendary item or something else) Recruitment should be happening at earlier stages of a player’s experience with GW2, and not as the unpleasant surprise that the current experience can be. (“Guess where the last 4% of your world completion is? A completely different game mode that subjects you to getting ganked if you go out on your own!”)

I understand that WvW, like any game mode, needs an influx of players trying it out for the first time. But I think that its current role in world completion is a poor example of that, since it only recruits characters who have significant investment and interest in a different game mode. And even then, it doesn’t really require them to participate in WvW proper, but to just run to a list of locations currently held by their server and wait for other spots to flip.

I just said it was a SOURCE of new players that was being removed. Never once did I say it was the main source or that it should be the main source. Or that it should be the first opportunity to try out WvW.

How can you say that it wasn’t a source of new players when players that have learned they loved WvW through going in to get map completion have come in and told their own stories of how they thought WvW wasn’t for them and then they tried it while doing map completion and loved it?

Ok, some people don’t seem to understand. So here:
A lot of dedicated WvW players don’t really care about PvE. Yet they are still forced to do it for map completion. Now you can say “but it is optional, they don’t have to do it”. So is WvW. You don’t HAVE to finish the world completion. You don’t HAVE to get the star and title. Yet you want to. So put in some effort.
Well I don’t WANT to complete 303 hearts. I still have to, to get the the reward for it.

Seera.5916:

Softspoken.2410:

And it removes one source of new blood to WvW. There are some map completers who found out they really enjoyed WvW after reluctantly going in the first time for map completion.

I’ve seen this expressed a couple times, and I really disagree. WvW should not be reliant on inflows of players who are trying to finish off world completion. (be it for a legendary item or something else) Recruitment should be happening at earlier stages of a player’s experience with GW2, and not as the unpleasant surprise that the current experience can be. (“Guess where the last 4% of your world completion is? A completely different game mode that subjects you to getting ganked if you go out on your own!”)

I understand that WvW, like any game mode, needs an influx of players trying it out for the first time. But I think that its current role in world completion is a poor example of that, since it only recruits characters who have significant investment and interest in a different game mode. And even then, it doesn’t really require them to participate in WvW proper, but to just run to a list of locations currently held by their server and wait for other spots to flip.

I just said it was a SOURCE of new players that was being removed. Never once did I say it was the main source or that it should be the main source. Or that it should be the first opportunity to try out WvW.

How can you say that it wasn’t a source of new players when players that have learned they loved WvW through going in to get map completion have come in and told their own stories of how they thought WvW wasn’t for them and then they tried it while doing map completion and loved it?

And I’m saying it was a kittenty source that should not be relied upon, and its loss should not be mourned.

For every person that Discovered WvW because of this requirement, I’d bet you there’s twice as many that resent it all the more. And for most of those people who discovered a love of WvW this way, I’d also bet you that any moderate incentive to get them into the game mode would have been just as effective. Map completion is overkill.

Wow, I am amazed at how much complaining there is lol. Guess I should have known there would be since it is a change to the game, though.

It is about time this change happened. I was fortunate enough to be on an average WvW server and was able to complete the maps in about a month, the majority of which was waiting for three strongholds. Sure a big argument is that one should have experience in everything before owning a legendary, but this requirement never did that. All it did was get me experienced in checking the map I needed every hour and running to the place once it was open or possibly taken. There are so many other requirements that would have taken some PvP prowess, but this wasn’t one.

Anyways, I for one am happy that this change happened, even though I already had my world completion finished. About time.

Well, that was about bloody time – I hated that part when I was doing map completion on my main. Glad others won’t have to suffer like I did

I rejoiced when I read the news. I’ve done 4 completions so far but have PvE completion on twice as many characters. The WvW part was always a pain in the kitten for me. For 93% you can get this achievement without any problems, in your own time. It takes a lot of time, of course, but that’s what I consider the effort in world completion. WvW was an obstacle. I’m on Ruins of Surmia and that server hasn’t always been as good in WvW. Try getting an enemy Borderlands when you don’t get that colour week after week. You could have everything except that one map for a long time, waiting for a chance to finally get that last 2%. Also, WvW should become more dedicated now, since only people who actually want to play it go there. There will be no more slots held by people who only go there for completion but don’t like the gameplay (which I personally don’t; and it’s not the PvP part because I do play sPvP). In this regard it’s positive for both sides

When it comes to attracting less new players, well, a lot of people who play MMO’s these days are familiar with the concept of WvW/PvP from other games. It takes someone who is completely new to MMO’s and has no friends to encourage him/her to try out WvW, who could possibly overlook the WvW aspect of the game. That group, I assume, will not be a very big group of players. So if this is a big loss for WvW, I’m not so sure but I am inclined to think it isn’t.

As for the Gift of Battle, a change (or addition) in how to get it would be the final step I’m waiting for to be able to completely leave WvW behind me. They could introduce a second form of acquisition that’s purely PvE based, or change the current requirements so you don’t need to participate in WvW/wait for AP chests to get the required rank/badges. As a purely PvE/sPvP player I am forced to play an aspect of the game I don’t like. I know it’s the other way around as well: WvW players who are not overly fond of PvE forced to do it anyway to get their Legendaries. The way I see Guild Wars, though, is a mainly PvE game, with the additions of WvW and PvP. The entire backstory of the game takes place in PvE, the expansion is a continuation of the PvE story so far, with updates and new additions to the 2 extra parts of the game. Name any MMO that is focused more on WvW/PvP than PvE, that releases expansions based on those aspects of the game, instead of the main (PvE) story. As far as I know, there are none. So the brunt of achievements will always be part of PvE. To remove an obstacle on the path to world completion isn’t that far-fetched. And yes, WvW is an obstacle, because unless you can get a considerable zerg going, completing all 4 maps will take at least 3 weeks. It might have been possible in the course of one week if keeps and castles didn’t have points you need, keeps and castles you can’t get into because they’re not yours. You can get any achievement in the game whenever you want to, in your own time, except for world completion. So in that regard I am all for it.

Shademehr.1397:

My post in the other thread:

I’m fine with this if Anet also removes the Power of the Mists bonuses for everyone who doesn’t participate in WvW.
(Maximum examples given)
+20% chance of a critical crafting success
+10% Defense against monsters
+10% Endurance regeneration
+20% Chance of additional mining/harvesting/logging node uses
+10% Healing Effectiveness
+10% Maximum health
+10% Bonus coin per kill
+10% Experience per kill

I so no reason at this point that the WvW players should be supporting the PvE’ers if the PvE players can’t be bothered to support the WvW’ers who earn these bonuses for them with the occasional foray into WvW.

Granted, some of you many not think these bonuses are worthwhile and I’ve provided the maximum examples (some servers earn lower rewards based on their score), but that’s how I feel.

Also, I completely agree that it’s time to give the WvW’ers some really nice incentives (skins, buffs, something!). Perhaps some quantity of the old WvW Tournament Tickets could be given out weekly for wvw participation and they could be used on the existing rewards which require those tickets and newer neat things could be added. (LET US BUY DUNGEON TOKENS WITH BADGES OR TOURNIE TICKETS PLEASE!)

I’m just gonna put this here… Because I’m not happy about this change and if I say what I would like it would be another infraction for me

Scormus.5417:

Bristingr.5034:

Why Anet? What’s the point of it being called WORLD completion, if they don’t even have to explore the entire world of the game anymore?

Because not everyone wants to play PvP content, and should not be forced to do so?

As an almost pure PvE player, people need to stop with this mentality that legendaries (or any rewards) should start and end with PvE, and that annoying little requirements like this WvW exploration need to go. Having done my own WC long ago, I understand the difficulties for some servers, but it doesn’t justify a self-centered attitude.

I believe PvE is “the game”, but the way some people talk about rewards it’s obvious they don’t care what happens to the other game modes or that those players are constantly forced into their world, so long as they don’t have to set foot into PvP.

What happened to WvW being the bridge? Well, if we agree on the different worlds idea, let’s cut the nonsense and officially draw the line: make it possible for WvW/PvP players to craft legendaries exclusively from playing their games. Us PvE players get our grind on, because heck knows that’s what we’re about, and competitive players can cap-and-stake their way to their rewards. Seems fair to me. We’d have our world and they theirs.

It’s funny: I never hear other PvE players ask if it’s fair that competitive players are forced to explore a 96% PvE world and grind dungeons so they can get the same reward we do. That probably never occurs to people who spend 100% of their time avoiding as much of the rest of the game as possible and don’t even realize they are in groups with people who don’t want to PvE but are doing so out of necessity, this forced game play many only rail against when they’re taken out of their element.

As far as this change goes, it’s another nail in the WvW coffin. When the developers talk about players stretching out to explore parts of the world they’ve not seen in the topic of deciding that WvW is not something people should have to see, what conclusions could otherwise be drawn? Along with EotM completely missing the point and rewarding players for not playing WvW, it really boggles my mind that they are expanding on it with a new map while everything they’re doing drives players away from it.

Dasenthal.6520:

Shademehr.1397:

My post in the other thread:

I’m fine with this if Anet also removes the Power of the Mists bonuses for everyone who doesn’t participate in WvW.
(Maximum examples given)
+20% chance of a critical crafting success
+10% Defense against monsters
+10% Endurance regeneration
+20% Chance of additional mining/harvesting/logging node uses
+10% Healing Effectiveness
+10% Maximum health
+10% Bonus coin per kill
+10% Experience per kill

I so no reason at this point that the WvW players should be supporting the PvE’ers if the PvE players can’t be bothered to support the WvW’ers who earn these bonuses for them with the occasional foray into WvW.

Granted, some of you many not think these bonuses are worthwhile and I’ve provided the maximum examples (some servers earn lower rewards based on their score), but that’s how I feel.

Also, I completely agree that it’s time to give the WvW’ers some really nice incentives (skins, buffs, something!). Perhaps some quantity of the old WvW Tournament Tickets could be given out weekly for wvw participation and they could be used on the existing rewards which require those tickets and newer neat things could be added. (LET US BUY DUNGEON TOKENS WITH BADGES OR TOURNIE TICKETS PLEASE!)

I’m just gonna put this here… Because I’m not happy about this change and if I say what I would like it would be another infraction for me

(Repost from another thread)

Just a possible theory about why they removed WvW from world completion.

The new Borderland map.

If it has POIs, vistas and skill points, then when it goes into rotation with the old map, it almost doubles the amount of work that needs to be done to get WvW explored. The new map may also be harder because of choke points and verticality.

If it doesn’t have these map points, then it increases the time to do WvW by weeks to months as people will need to wait for it to go out of rotation and the old maps to return or it’s really easy and people will only need to do the center map.

In other words, the amount of work is unequal so, imo, that’s why it was removed.

Dasenthal.6520:

Shademehr.1397:

My post in the other thread:

I’m fine with this if Anet also removes the Power of the Mists bonuses for everyone who doesn’t participate in WvW.
(Maximum examples given)
+20% chance of a critical crafting success
+10% Defense against monsters
+10% Endurance regeneration
+20% Chance of additional mining/harvesting/logging node uses
+10% Healing Effectiveness
+10% Maximum health
+10% Bonus coin per kill
+10% Experience per kill

I so no reason at this point that the WvW players should be supporting the PvE’ers if the PvE players can’t be bothered to support the WvW’ers who earn these bonuses for them with the occasional foray into WvW.

Granted, some of you many not think these bonuses are worthwhile and I’ve provided the maximum examples (some servers earn lower rewards based on their score), but that’s how I feel.

Also, I completely agree that it’s time to give the WvW’ers some really nice incentives (skins, buffs, something!). Perhaps some quantity of the old WvW Tournament Tickets could be given out weekly for wvw participation and they could be used on the existing rewards which require those tickets and newer neat things could be added. (LET US BUY DUNGEON TOKENS WITH BADGES OR TOURNIE TICKETS PLEASE!)

I’m just gonna put this here… Because I’m not happy about this change and if I say what I would like it would be another infraction for me

Well, the Power of the Mists argument would be valid if WvW players actually obtained those benefits for PvE players specifically. But they don’t. What invalidates it as well is that it’s impossible to differentiate players based on their motive for entering WvW, be it to participate, gain map completion, or whatever other reasons find for entering WvW.

Second of all, like I said in my previous post, PvE is the core of GW2 and it always has been. Never has it been marketed as a WvW/PvP game with the addition of some PvE content. In fact, to my knowledge, all fantasy RPG MMO’s are of this nature: the core is the story, the PvE part. So it’s only logical that most of the achievements can be obtained in the core part of the game, and not the additional modes of gameplay. I’ve read the same topic on the WvW Forum as well, and it sounds like a lot of them think they are playing a mainly WvW game. To them it may well be, if they don’t play any other aspect of the game, but the fact will always be that GW2 is not the game they like it to be. It’s not a WvW game nor a PvP game, it’s a PvE game with 2 distinct options to play against other people besides playing against the environment. These WvW players who complain about having to do PvE stuff actually need a game that provides the WvW experience as the core of the game, or as the entire game. And considering what’s needed for a Legendary, WvW is firstly a tiny part of the whole process (so it won’t invalidate anyone’s Legendaries, like some have claimed) and secondly much too small a portion of the game to incorporate all requisites for Legendaries. There’s only so much you can do in WvW, so in my opinion it would make obtaining a Legendary either very easy or just a matter of time, most likely both.

Not to mention they’re taking the Alpine Borderlands away in the start of the expansion. Taking away WvW from map complete is obviously a move done to prepare for that.

Caought unguarded.. Are Anet serious about this?

This change doesn’t bother me really. I do hope we still get a map completion reward should we choose to do the maps, anyway, but I don’t care it’s not required for world completion. I understand the concern, though, about new players never being exposed to this, which would be a shame. WvW can be a lot of fun and is often really profitable from a loot standpoint. I’m not a pro pvper, but I’ve leveled many characters in WvW and gotten a lot of money from playing out there.

TheNecrosanct.4028:

I rejoiced when I read the news. I’ve done 4 completions so far but have PvE completion on twice as many characters. The WvW part was always a pain in the kitten for me. For 93% you can get this achievement without any problems, in your own time. It takes a lot of time, of course, but that’s what I consider the effort in world completion. WvW was an obstacle. I’m on Ruins of Surmia and that server hasn’t always been as good in WvW. Try getting an enemy Borderlands when you don’t get that colour week after week. You could have everything except that one map for a long time, waiting for a chance to finally get that last 2%.

This is the biggest problem of putting WvW in the map completion part. You don’t have any influence on when you will be able to finish that last borderland… It depends deeply on other servers and luck.
If the colours would always rotate (green last week, red this week, blue next week, rinse and repeat), I think there would have been less problem with the map completion in WvW.
If servers would always go against servers of their own calibre, I think there would have been less problem with map completion in WvW.

As it is now, pure chance can keep you away from finish that map completion for months. Simply because your server is not good enough to keep its own against the other two or because you simply don’t get the colour you need. I’ve been waiting for over a month to finish the WvW part of the map on two characters, simply because we won’t turn blue (that would be completion nr 7 and 8, so I know what I’m talking about…)

This whole WvW numbers will suffer because people are no longer being lulled into it argument is garbage.

PvP is populated by people who inherantly wish to play PvP. Anet did’t try and stealth in some requirement in order to get PVE’ers in there. And now WvW will exist on the same terms.

Kedarrian.2905:

This whole WvW numbers will suffer because people are no longer being lulled into it argument is garbage.

PvP is populated by people who inherantly wish to play PvP. Anet did’t try and stealth in some requirement in order to get PVE’ers in there. And now WvW will exist on the same terms.

While I agree that WvW isn’t going to die as a result of this change, one of your statements isn’t really accurate. I do a lot of WvW, and I am not a PvPer at all. When I played this game at launch, I had zero intention of ever going to WvW. Sounded like a nightmare to me. Then I had to go and complete maps there and I discovered that WvW did not feel like other PvP experiences I have had. I had no idea how different it was until I was forced to try it in order to complete my first 100% world completion.

I know dozens of other players for whom this is true also.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Kedarrian.2905:

This whole WvW numbers will suffer because people are no longer being lulled into it argument is garbage.

PvP is populated by people who inherantly wish to play PvP. Anet did’t try and stealth in some requirement in order to get PVE’ers in there. And now WvW will exist on the same terms.

While I agree that WvW isn’t going to die as a result of this change, one of your statements isn’t really accurate. I do a lot of WvW, and I am not a PvPer at all. When I played this game at launch, I had zero intention of ever going to WvW. Sounded like a nightmare to me. Then I had to go and complete maps there and I discovered that WvW did not feel like other PvP experiences I have had. I had no idea how different it was until I was forced to try it in order to complete my first 100% world completion.

I know dozens of other players for whom this is true also.

One of the unique draws of GW2 was its WvW system. Plenty of people are all about playing that game type. My counter anecdote is that when i was drawn into WvW for map completion, i hated it. It took me a long time to get over that experience and associate WvW with anything fun. I would propose that my experience is more common than yours.

Also, it gave me the impression that Anet were sufficiently desperate for people to engage in WvW that they were willing to use hmm….. less than honorable tactics on PVE players. That’s the impression I got, rightly or wrongly.

Anet need to give players that explore the WvW lands some rewards to then,it just unfair if pvpers are forced to do only PVE for world completion…

Killface.1896:

Anet need to give players that explore the WvW lands some rewards to then,it just unfair if pvpers are forced to do only PVE for world completion…

Kedarian.2905:

One of the unique draws of GW2 was its WvW system. Plenty of people are all about playing that game type.

Nobody is forced to do anything. It’s all a personal choice. Even playing the game in the first place is a personal choice. So the being forced argument is always without foundation.

The mistake a lot of pro-WvW people make here is to forget that GW2 is, at its core, a PvE game. It’s fine if people buy the game just for the WvW experience. To each their own, after all, But expecting to achieve everything without ever stepping foot in the core part of the game is at best unrealistic, at worst ignorant of the game they are playing.

anet

It’s our hope that this will make for a better overall Guild Wars 2 experience as everyone sets out to explore parts of Tyria they’ve not yet seen.

So erm, if they dont have to go to WvW map any more, how will they now see it if they arent required to now?

Sorry but this is just more pandering to PvE which is creating greater hostilities between players and anet.

Seera.5916:

And it removes one source of new blood to WvW. There are some map completers who found out they really enjoyed WvW after reluctantly going in the first time for map completion.

Its actually the other way around.

Its not hard to try WvW whenever you feel like it.

But being forced into WvW and more or less forced to make suicide runs for points if you get unlucky with your server color will make people hate WvW.

Either way this takes away forced content from pve players which is good.
I wouldnt mind introducing some WvW only rewards similar to Glorious Armor to give the WvW crowd something unique as compensation.

Here’s the thing: I would have set foot into WvW completely on my own even if it wasn’t required for map completion. Who knows, I may have found it fun, I may have learned how to play, and I may have considered it a fun distraction from PvE.

Instead, all I remember is a place of utter frustration and players who killed a wandering lone naked unarmed player again and again and again. Heck, when I ran with a group, I watched them slay people there for map completion. Oh and the whining about PvErs there for map completion not helping the server and could they please leave so real WvWers could get in.

Maybe I’ll get over my irritation with it, I did with PvP, maybe I won’t but this is a big change for the better.

Aerlen.5326:

Oh and the whining about PvErs there for map completion not helping the server and could they please leave so real WvWers could get in.

lol Yeah, I have to admit that people whining about players coming there for map completion is really lame. Duh, of course people are going to go there for map completion when it’s a requirement. Makes about as much sense as people whining about uplevels.

This is a change that should have been made at the beginning. At this point, two and a half years in, this just feels like a slight to those who jumped through the hoops to get World Completion in the first place. Most of us who have done it have done it multiple times. Not all of us were blessed with the best WvW servers, but honestly it was just a matter of patience and persistence even with the worst server, especially now that servers change more often. If you were paying attention, completing WvW could easily require no combat at all beyond the skill points, just strolling in while your world controlled those areas. The way tiers work meant that no server would be in a difficult position for long, even if some weeks were harder than others. It just took patience and the ability to hold a goal for more than a week. Lowering the bar for this achievement to appease those who couldn’t be bothered in the first place makes the achievement and title as cheap as most of the achievements and titles in GW2.

I think a better compromise would be to link the borderlands points of interest, skill points and vistas. Doing those three times over and over was tedious. I did world completion eight times which means I had to complete that map 24 times. It was boring and repetitive (although not by any stretch of the imagination difficult).

It’s inconceivable that in two and a half years someone would not have had the opportunity to complete this easily if they had simply checked the WvW menu once a day. I honestly don’t see the point of making a change like this so late in the game. But I guess everyone gets a star by their name now, so, yay.

It’s the right decision. And it’s about time.

On one of my characters I needed the nw tower Vista for map completion on an enemy map. It was the wee hours and nobody was on from our server so the wife and myself set up a catapult, took the tower and got our Vista. That said I know many people who complain that getting the two southern vistas on an enemy map was far too difficult and would ask if there was a “zerg” nearby to assist but like I stated some people want things handed to them the easy way.

In PvE there is no threat, no risk, to getting PoIs or Vistas. Remove risk and you dumb down the game for the lazy.