Guild Wars 2

Thing is; If there will be wvw only rewards, the PvE people would complain that they can’t get them – thus a few years from now they will get them for free – so in the end.. just leave wvw alone maybe – it’s better that way.

Murksler.5261:

And now remove the PvE map completion. Else where I will not get any Gift of Exploration because PvE map completion is a boring mindless grindfest which I don’t enjoy.

Funny you should say that. I thought that WvW maps only took up the last 4% or so of total World Completion…? Therefore, it has always been mainly about PvE maps. Put it into perspective, please. It shouldn’t stop you from continuing to play WvW.

Teratus.2859:

Done map completion on multiple characters and this news pleases me greatly

I went from disliking WvW content to flat out hating it because of the map completion..

WvW has nothing to do with the PvE game.. they are two entirely different game modes catered to two completely different types of gameplay
Map completion has nothing to do with WvW in the same way that WvW has nothing to do with the personal story so it should never have counted in the first place

suffice to say this news is going to make a lot of people happy
as people have said.. people who don’t like PvP game modes are no longer being forced to complete 4 PvP based maps.. 3 of which are identical clones.. talk about severe boredum
and WvW players will no longer have to deal with people taking up space on the map and complaining in the chat that they don’t even want to be there

WvW can focus entirely on WvW now and the only people playing there will be people who want to be there

as far as I am concerned this is a win win for both PvE players and WvW players and the majority of the community will agree on that

I am in 100% agreement! I have only done 100% completion on one toon…and it was a nightmare. Took me a month or more to get the WvW maps, and I really am not a WvW or PvP player no matter how many times I try it out. This way, I can get 100% doing things I am actually capable of doing. I am sure I am not the only gamer who is more naturally PvE-inclined. And, I must say, some of the PvE maps have their challenges as well, just in a different way than WvW (where you get chased down and killed, or POIs/Vistas are controlled by an opposing team that won’t budge).

Sadly, as I have been seeing scrolling through the forums, there are a lot of WvWers who are highly upset. But, honestly, I don’t understand why. WvW maps were only 4% or so of world completion. Therefore, PvE maps were a majority of world completion anyway. They would be forced to do PvE no matter what Anet did to world completion. Also, nothing is stopping WvWers from playing WvW.

Shademehr.1397:

Map completion is what got me hooked on WvW.

Legendaries just became less legendary.

That happened years ago when we found out they could be traded for gold…and gold could be had for $$$

Make these changes:

1) Get the legendary Gift from either doing the PvE Map Completion or WvW Map Completion. Since according to numerous PvE people in this thread it takes “weeks” to do WvW Map Completion this should be reasonable.

2) Give a reward track for WvW to get dungeon tokens from WvW.

3) Make the Laurel vendor exchange Laurels for Pristine Fractal Relics.

With those three changes, everyone can “play the way they want to play” for most of the content. People that don’t want to WvW don’t have to go there and those of us that don’t like the PvE content can get most game rewards in WvW.

Hell, I’d rather visit each PoI in the WvW maps 10x in different weeks to get a Gift than doing the Hearts in PvE

I can’t grasp why Anet has waited YEARS to do things people have been asking from day one, yet spent years making terrible stories about some of the worst characters in the series.

Yes because the one thing this game needed was even easier legendary weapons…

Please don’t go through with this, you should be adding to world completion, not removing it!

Well I guess im just S.O.L. Wasted time for map complete. I just feel stupid for doing it 8 times.

Just rename them “Fancy Ascended” weapons. Awful decision, instead of fixing what is wrong with WVW they are just excluding it. Like removing the one Pvp map with water and the big lakes in WVW.

For gosh sakes, it is called legendary for a reason. Even less prestige now.

I think this is a great decision.

What about the gankers?

Won’t somebody please think of the gankers?

Brucifer.6341:

Well I guess im just S.O.L. Wasted time for map complete. I just feel stupid for doing it 8 times.

Why are you SOL? You made the choice to do 100% map completion including WvW and got the rewards for doing so. Would you have rather waited for 100% map completion on your 8 characters for over 2 1/2 years for the opportunity to do it without having to do WvW? Nothing is being taken away from you. I think what you meant to say is, “I had to do it this way so everyone else should too.”

Best changes they’ve done in a while. Doing server transfers or waiting for weeks for keeps to change was dumb.

We all learned from this thread , that the worst part of GW2 community is the WvW community.

PvE community asked for this for years. Why? Because we hate WvW. And Anet finally listen to us! Thank you Anet , this is wonderfull change.

The porpose of this thread was for PvE players to say thank you, but of course WvW players have to take over this thread to cry about things that don’t matters them.

I got my world completion done long long time ago, when my server was keeping all possible points on WvW map. But my friends who love PvE and hate PvP, wanted to make 100% map completion. And they had to suffer for long time. They had supports build and were all the time ganked by thiefs, who I think, don’t have any friends and only have fun when they kill someone who don’t even want to fight them. Oh these brave thiefs really.

And now we don’t have to visit WvW, and we wont. This is the worst mode in this game. The most boring , the most broken, the most unfun.

You cry because you won’t be able to gank us? I am really happy of your loss.

You said legendary will be less legendary? Oh yeah because wating weeks for map change is soooo legendary.

And people who feel ripped off becasue they did this map already? Yeah you totaly should get like 10k gems for that, you really deserved that. I am serious! ..not.

Again thanks Arenanet for this change. Now I can play this amazing game how I want – without WvW, without trolls, without gankers and other bad people. Amen

Logos.1306:

We all learned from this thread , that the worst part of GW2 community is the WvW community.

I actually think it’s the other way around, but that’s just me.

Jana.6831:

Logos.1306:

We all learned from this thread , that the worst part of GW2 community is the WvW community.

I actually think it’s the other way around, but that’s just me.

Nope, it’s usually the PvP communities that are the most toxic and hostile.

I completed world exploration, WvW included, and this change just makes me feel…elated. That’s the word – elated. My alts don’t have to suffer through the WvW maps and neither does anyone else. Elation all around!

Thank you for doing this, ArenaNet; you’ve made my day.

Jana.6831:

Logos.1306:

We all learned from this thread , that the worst part of GW2 community is the WvW community.

I actually think it’s the other way around, but that’s just me.

I think neither group is worse than the other.

There are the farmers that their get all angry if you disrupt their farm in PvE.

There are the jerks who run dungeons who kick at the first mistake and ask for ridiculous things for PUG runs.

There are the PvP’ers who can’t take losing.

There are the WvW’ers who abuse those who voice in map chat that they are just there for map completion and ask for help.

All groups have their jerks. Let’s not label one group as worst when none of us know every member of the other groups.

Logos.1306:

We all learned from this thread , that the worst part of GW2 community is the WvW community.

Legendaries are not a PvE only item. Or at least they were somewhat designed to include all aspects of the game. Gift of battle comes from WvW and map completion used to include. Sure a majority of a legendary comes from PvE but thats due to bad design, the philosophy was always to not exclude certain players. Now WvW players are even more excluded because theyre effforts in completing maps through playing normally are no longer recognized and they have to go to PvE to do 99% of their legendary. And ofc PvP players basically get nothing except 2 clovers at the end of glorious track and a chance at a Pre.

I dont play WvW but i understand entirely where they are coming from. If theyre going to take out WvW from world completion why not add some rewards in WvW that will either compensate for this change, or make getting legendaries/gold easier for ppl who enjoy WvW

Astralporing.1957:

rhapsody.3615:

While I can see how this benefits many many people.. I have one reservation: New players now have absolutely no reason to enter WvW.

It’s far better to offer soft incentives than hard requirements. Look at sPvP reward tracks – they are very good at bringing people to the Mists, even if you can get most of the things from those tracks elsewhere. There’s also dailies (though dailies are a bit too good in suggesting doing them outside of PvE).

That’s true, and I think some kind of WvW reward track would be really nice. Anet has to be careful about offering incentives, because they are then bashed by the “hardcore” WvW community. It seems there are three types of players: those who want nothing to do with WvW, those who don’t want new players breathing their air, and those who welcome changes that encourage newbies to check out the game mode.

Seasons- originally came with loads of Achievement Points and rewards for each category. WvW players complained that PvE players were taking up their space. The last season had what.. 20 AP? And took insanely little effort to complete. Some WvW players (such as myself) felt cheated that PvE gets lots of AP with every story update, but WvW didn’t get more than 20 during an event that happens once or twice per year. And don’t get me started on the current WvW achievements…

The WvW exclusive weapon tickets are rewarded each season for minimal effort. We deserve something that takes more effort than just logging in and pressing ‘B’ once per week. The problem is if it’s too good, it will draw in the PvE crowd, and then the hardcore WvW crowd will vocalize their dismay.

I think reward tracks in WvW would be a great idea.. but then how to implement it? Primarily PvE players would still be running around with the rewards after leveling their characters in EotM, while the “real” WvW’ers would be far behind in earning said rewards.

There really isn’t a lot that Anet can do to make everyone happy.

Edit: meant to add, as far as map completion… I think that WvW maps should be necessary for the star, but not for Gift of Exploration. Give one Gift upon finishing PvE maps, and the other upon receiving your star. It doesn’t matter though, the decision has already been made.

ANet will surely come up with something awesome for WvW, probably achievement-tied stuff. There are PLENTY of achievement hunters to fill up every aspect of the game, it’s much more noticeable because of collections. ANet has literally narrowed it when they added so many achievements, they cause game population to evenly spread and make the game feel alive.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Jana.6831:

Logos.1306:

We all learned from this thread , that the worst part of GW2 community is the WvW community.

I actually think it’s the other way around, but that’s just me.

Nope, it’s usually the PvP communities that are the most toxic and hostile.

Depends on who you ask.

I have met some really really nasty pve guilds as of late.
And some really nasty elitist slobs on LFG that gate other people based on the class they play and their AP points.

This change is really amazing as playing on a bad or low populated server could result in almost never getting 100% map completion.

Seera.5916:

There are the WvW’ers who abuse those who voice in map chat that they are just there for map completion and ask for help.

There have been many threads like this in the past and in one of them I explained how wvwler usually feel like: There’s tension because we have a shared goal – we know that goal and we work together, even if it doesn’t seem like it.
So, sometimes things are going really bad and in the midst someone comes and asks for a certain vista in the keep of an overwhelming enemy. That’s usually ok, it will be ignored in most cases but people can get angry because of the tension that has already been there and I think that’s understandable. I’ve been on 4 servers and all of them were/are cool and nice people – they just have other stuff on their minds than making map completion for a random guy possible.

Jana.6831:

Seera.5916:

There are the WvW’ers who abuse those who voice in map chat that they are just there for map completion and ask for help.

There have been many threads like this in the past and in one of them I explained how wvwler usually feel like: There’s tension because we have a shared goal – we know that goal and we work together, even if it doesn’t seem like it.
So, sometimes things are going really bad and in the midst someone comes and asks for a certain vista in the keep of an overwhelming enemy. That’s usually ok, it will be ignored in most cases but people can get angry because of the tension that has already been there and I think that’s understandable. I’ve been on 4 servers and all of them were/are cool and nice people – they just have other stuff on their minds than making map completion for a random guy possible.

I don’t feel like the ones who abuse the map completer’s are the majority. Just that some do. And those few should not be used to condemn the WvW community.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Nope, it’s usually the PvP communities that are the most toxic and hostile.

Nope, it’s always the other community we aren’t a part of that is the most toxic and hostile, which is why they are our enemies and we have to defeat them.

/all_of_human_history_summarized_in_one_sentence

Seera.5916:

I think neither group is worse than the other.

There are the farmers that their get all angry if you disrupt their farm in PvE.

There are the jerks who run dungeons who kick at the first mistake and ask for ridiculous things for PUG runs.

There are the PvP’ers who can’t take losing.

There are the WvW’ers who abuse those who voice in map chat that they are just there for map completion and ask for help.

All groups have their jerks. Let’s not label one group as worst when none of us know every member of the other groups.

This is so very, very true. And this Us versus Them attitude in regards to PVE and WvW/PvP is not helping. There shouldn’t be any of this “Real” WvWers or “Whining PVEers.” We’re all players in the same game, even if we prefer different things about it. And now I’ve gone all motivational speaker. Look what you’ve done, internet. :|

Majic.4801:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Nope, it’s usually the PvP communities that are the most toxic and hostile.

Nope, it’s always the other community we aren’t a part of that is the most toxic and hostile, which is why they are our enemies and we have to defeat them.

/all_of_human_history_summarized_in_one_sentence

While there are bad apples on both sides it’s common knowledge pvp communities are generally more toxic than pve communities.

I was OP and frequent poster on year-ago topic about this https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Map-Completion-Metrics-on-Player-Anger.

Glad Anet is finally getting this right.

The dungeon / fractal community is as toxic as any pvp community I’ve encountered, but everyone will have different experiences. Regardless, trying to generalize about a community probably isn’t going to be real productive.

Seera.5916:

I don’t feel like the ones who abuse the map completer’s are the majority. Just that some do. And those few should not be used to condemn the WvW community.

Yep, sorry – didn’t read carefully enough.

Kedarrian.2905:

People were saying this change should be made since forever. I’m glad it’s happened but i do wonder how it managed to take so long for them to come around and impliment it.

Sales…

The new blood that caused the NPE was likely a driving force. As we have seen in this thread GW2 has at least 4 player types:

PvP
WvW
PvE
Any mix of the three

We all have the option to play in any mode right after the starting instance and never look back. Forcing players to do certain things is not the way to make money for the company.

Plus, the fact that legendary weapons can be bought and sold on the TP has seriously turned them into vanity items. Either you have the lack of RL commitment that allows you to play for days on end to craft them constantly/farm enough gold to buy them OR you have a really good paying job without any further financial commitment so you can break out the credit/debt/paypal and just buy gems to convert to gold in order to buy one.

In the end, WvW players got what they wanted which was the removal of PvE players taking up slots in WvW and PvE players got what they wanted which was the removal of WvW from World Completion.

I’m not terribly concerned by the change, as you still do need a certain number of badges and WvW rank to get the Gift of Battle. Sure, if you absolutely despise PvP in all forms, you now have your workaround and CAN get those things without ever entering WvW, but it’s more engaging to go in there and crank out the requirements.

I suspect that’s what Arena.net eventually decided as well.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Majic.4801:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Nope, it’s usually the PvP communities that are the most toxic and hostile.

Nope, it’s always the other community we aren’t a part of that is the most toxic and hostile, which is why they are our enemies and we have to defeat them.

/all_of_human_history_summarized_in_one_sentence

While there are bad apples on both sides it’s common knowledge pvp communities are generally more toxic than pve communities.

Its probably common knowledge because PvE communities tend to be larger than PvP communities in games with both options and so…

Majic.4801:

Nope, it’s always the other community we aren’t a part of that is the most toxic and hostile, which is why they are our enemies and we have to defeat them.

/all_of_human_history_summarized_in_one_sentence

Jana.6831:

Logos.1306:

We all learned from this thread , that the worst part of GW2 community is the WvW community.

I actually think it’s the other way around, but that’s just me.

Quite frankly, the biggest problem are people who stubbornly (and vociferously) only play one game mode. Or even worse, the people who only play one game mode, but refuse to ever touch large portions of it.

This is how I felt about the announcement and never having to do map completion in WvW again.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pLzwH2gv5FY

Olvendred.3027:

Jana.6831:

Logos.1306:

We all learned from this thread , that the worst part of GW2 community is the WvW community.

I actually think it’s the other way around, but that’s just me.

Quite frankly, the biggest problem are people who stubbornly (and vociferously) only play one game mode. Or even worse, the people who only play one game mode, but refuse to ever touch large portions of it.

Why is that a problem?
What’s wrong with people simply not wanting to play things they don’t like?

I’m a pve player. wvw bores the ever living hell out of me, so I don’t play it.
Thankfully, now I won’t have to anymore. This is good for me and good for wvw since it means players that have no interest in it aren’t running around wasting people’s time in game modes they dislike.

Finally a game update that doesn’t suck.

I went and got 100% world completion on 9 characters with a lot of perseverance. Now they are going to give it to you on a silver platter.

Sad…..

Olvendred.3027:

Jana.6831:

Logos.1306:

We all learned from this thread , that the worst part of GW2 community is the WvW community.

I actually think it’s the other way around, but that’s just me.

Quite frankly, the biggest problem are people who stubbornly (and vociferously) only play one game mode. Or even worse, the people who only play one game mode, but refuse to ever touch large portions of it.

People play what they enjoy. This is not a job, a career, or a calling. It is entertainment for which we pay. It only makes sense that we would play the parts that we enjoy and avoid the parts we don’t. Not sure why this is such a problem. And….yes…I have tried all the different modes.

Elothar.4382:

Olvendred.3027:

Jana.6831:

Logos.1306:

We all learned from this thread , that the worst part of GW2 community is the WvW community.

I actually think it’s the other way around, but that’s just me.

Quite frankly, the biggest problem are people who stubbornly (and vociferously) only play one game mode. Or even worse, the people who only play one game mode, but refuse to ever touch large portions of it.

People play what they enjoy. This is not a job, a career, or a calling. It is entertainment for which we pay. It only makes sense that we would play the parts that we enjoy and avoid the parts we don’t. Not sure why this is such a problem. And….yes…I have tried all the different modes.

It’s not a problem in itself. It’s just that it’s that type of player who most frequently comes onto the forums and complains about how they aren’t getting all the cool stuff other people are getting, even though they absolutely refuse to do the things required to get it.

And no, I’m not saying that all players who only play one game mode are complaining and entitled like that. Merely that only playing one game mode is the most common characteristic of the players who are like that.

Ah the whining.

I did full map completion on one out of 20 toons and I did it back when armor cost money to repair. Think I asked for compensation when they took away armor repair costs? Nah, I was glad I wouldn’t have to deal with it again.

Now I’ll have three toons who will get map completion when this goes live without me having to deal with gankers, trolls, or other types. When I go into WvW, it can be because I actually want to play WvW, not because I want a POI I’ve been trying to get for two weeks.

Oh but wait, should I demand compensation because I already did it once when it was ‘hard’? Nope. My compensation is never having to do it again and getting to say I completed it once when it was a butt pain.

Theftwind.8976:

I went and got 100% world completion on 9 characters with a lot of perseverance. Now they are going to give it to you on a silver platter.

Sad…..

When I bought my TV, it was half the price it costs now. Do I go back to the store to complain about this?
No, because things change and it doesn’t diminish the entertainment I get from watching it.

You, I’m assuming, enjoyed going through the stuff you had to go through to get world completion.
That enjoyment isn’t suddenly less valid now that other people won’t have to if they don’t want to.

Theftwind.8976:

I went and got 100% world completion on 9 characters with a lot of perseverance. Now they are going to give it to you on a silver platter.

Sad…..

As somebody earlier already mentioned, it’s only about 4%. And it’s actually the easiest part, if you’re lucky with your server and rotation. And even if you are unlucky on either or both, it just takes time, a lot of patience and frustration, and not an ounce of skill…

I have finished the wvw maps on multiple characters, by just waiting and waiting and waiting…. Oh and by respawning, being killed while running unarmed, naked (before the armor damage cost removal) and respawning again. I’m back at waiting again (will at least be a month total) for our server to finally turn blue so I can finally finish the wvw maps on two more characters…

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

As somebody earlier already mentioned, it’s only about 4%. And it’s actually the easiest part, if you’re lucky with your server and rotation. And even if you are unlucky on either or both, it just takes time, a lot of patience and frustration, and not an ounce of skill…

I have finished the wvw maps on multiple characters, by just waiting and waiting and waiting…. Oh and by respawning, being killed while running unarmed, naked (before the armor damage cost removal) and respawning again. I’m back at waiting again (will at least be a month total) for our server to finally turn blue so I can finally finish the wvw maps on two more characters…

What gets me is the pattern is endemic in all games. After a certain point in time the game begins to “dumb down” or be made easier to appease those that cannot be bothered to work at something. Eventually there are flashing neon signs pointing the way, thinking and planning become secondary to following the crowd, dungeons become scripted where everyone does exactly what is needed to be done to get it done in record time, innovation is gone. The game starts to hold your hand and at that point I start searching for new horizons.

All I can say is this Anet: you made getting a legendary easier, some lazy people (sorry but if you can’t get wvw map completion you are lazy, it’s superior easy when you follow advice from experienced wvw players).

Part of the challenge was also the patience game of map completion in wvw. Not tons of people are gonna start with nothing but 3000g, and have legendary 3 days later just because map completion is done by then.

Keeping the new pve maps out is just a shame.

On top of it, i suspect (to lazy to read announcement of something i don’t like atm, it’s my turn to be lazy you know) Anet won’t give rewards anymore for completion each of the 4 wvw maps anymore, wich would be shame (black lion keys <3).

Theftwind.8976:

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

As somebody earlier already mentioned, it’s only about 4%. And it’s actually the easiest part, if you’re lucky with your server and rotation. And even if you are unlucky on either or both, it just takes time, a lot of patience and frustration, and not an ounce of skill…

I have finished the wvw maps on multiple characters, by just waiting and waiting and waiting…. Oh and by respawning, being killed while running unarmed, naked (before the armor damage cost removal) and respawning again. I’m back at waiting again (will at least be a month total) for our server to finally turn blue so I can finally finish the wvw maps on two more characters…

What gets me is the pattern is endemic in all games. After a certain point in time the game begins to “dumb down” or be made easier to appease those that cannot be bothered to work at something. Eventually there are flashing neon signs pointing the way, thinking and planning become secondary to following the crowd, dungeons become scripted where everyone does exactly what is needed to be done to get it done in record time, innovation is gone. The game starts to hold your hand and at that point I start searching for new horizons.

This announcement might have more to do with the new WvW map being put in on a rotation with the other maps than a dumbing down of the game. The new map looks to be substantially different and that is most likely the reason for this. Possibly it doesn’t have the POIs, skill points or vistas of the old maps, or if they are there they may be harder to get to because of the new maps verticality.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

This announcement might have more to do with the new WvW map being put in on a rotation with the other maps than a dumbing down of the game. The new map looks to be substantially different and that is most likely the reason for this. Possibly it doesn’t have the POIs, skill points or vistas of the old maps, or if they are there they may be harder to get to because of the new maps verticality.

That… would actually be a very good explanation for this change. If only they’d come right out and said that (or indeed, explained the rationale at all) in the blog post.

… about time!

Olvendred.3027:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

This announcement might have more to do with the new WvW map being put in on a rotation with the other maps than a dumbing down of the game. The new map looks to be substantially different and that is most likely the reason for this. Possibly it doesn’t have the POIs, skill points or vistas of the old maps, or if they are there they may be harder to get to because of the new maps verticality.

That… would actually be a very good explanation for this change. If only they’d come right out and said that (or indeed, explained the rationale at all) in the blog post.

I have yet to see them explain why they do something, no matter how useful or reasonable it would be for them to do so. What they normally do is make an announcement and then (maybe) explain when the forums blow up about it.