Guild Wars 2

Im not even that botherd about a new set of armour.

But what is stupid is that your already steering away from things you have said several times in the past. And how long have we been here? What more can we expect to change? Right now you have lost the trust of quite a few customers, why bother posting stuff you wont even stick to?

Weak

I feel betrayed. I was promised the game without grinding. I don’t like games where i need farm new gear again and again without end. And gw2 was’t such game. I do not like new way of game and and leave if we continue.

I am not getting paid for this suggestion but in my opinion the future MMO would be themepark and sandbox fused together.

I don’t understand why the Agony condition exists at all. There is an infinite dungeon where each run is harder than the last. Except the only way it’s harder is because there is a new condition called Agony. So you get gear that negates Agony. Then, you can progress farther into the dungeon. Repeat forever. Except every time Agony gets stronger, your resistance to it gets stronger. In reality, there is nothing different from the first, fifth, and one hundredth runs of the dungeon.

Okay, so maybe the dungeon also gets harder in other ways: mobs have better stats, there are more mobs, or the mobs are somehow smarter or more challenging. These are all fine methods of progression. But if these other types of progression exist at all, why have Agony?

Hunterdan.4921:

Wouldn’t a DPS ring out DPS the Yakkington’s Ring?

Yak Ring
68 power
68 precision
10% magic find

Ruby Orichalcum Ring of the Berserker

92 power
63 precision
6% crit

Or

Coral Orichalcum Ring of the Rampager
63 power
92 precision
63 condition damage

I mean, I’m making the assumption that there would not be great variance of other types of Ascended rings.

The modifications possible with Exotic gear put Exotic gear over Ascended gear in any place other than in the instance of a dungeon in which you would require your infusion slot.

Yeah, that is a magic find ring and it is a lot better than normal magic find rings.

An ascended dps ring should be a fair amount better than the exotic one.

Crackbone.5710:

HTXL.2598:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

And horizontal progression gets older faster than vertical.

Precisely.

Pulling all of the emotion out of this debate, you really have to consider the “Why.”

Why add vertical progression? I assert that it’s because their current model of horizontal progression isn’t retaining customers as they hoped it would. Furthermore, they likely had this entire model in their backpocket if the numbers stacked up this way.

It’s simple, Either you want Guild Wars 2 to be around as a healthy and profitable game for ANet and NCSoft for the next 3-5 years, or you want outdated mechanics from 2004.

They are, in my opinion as ANet has figured out, mutually exclusive, and it’s coming home to roost now as Ascended Gear.

Evidence for anything you have said = nothing.

Your not smart or clever. We all understand your boring viewpoint now so kindly move along and let us be sad in peace.

Blizzard has over 7 years of end game content development. If that is what you are after, then you need to play their games. They have LFG tools, they have dedicated loot tiers, they have difficulty levels, etc.

GW2 doesn’t. It was sold on a different idea to a majority of people. Not wow, not a clone, not a grind.

Welcome to NCsoft games. Yes, that is a reference to the mother of all grind games upon release, Aion…

Algreg.3629:

HTXL.2598:

There’s no subscription, you’re not paying a dime, and you’re complaining?

But you got your $60 worth, right?

the point is not the money, but wanting to enjoy the game further which requires it being enjoyable, not so hard to understand, even for a oneliner-troll.

You make it hard for yourself to enjoy, not us. Sorry.

showatt.9413:

Enemy becoming harder is …..bad?

I thought having a challenge – and be rewarded for taking on that challenge – is a good thing. Guess I was wrong. Nowadays its all about look and having everything easy.

Challenge like Dark Souls that test your reflexes and ability? Yes.

Challenge like Diablo 3 that tests what kind of gear you have? No.

And with this geargrind, Anet is going the Diablo 3 route.

Crackbone.5710:

HTXL.2598:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

And horizontal progression gets older faster than vertical.

Precisely.

Pulling all of the emotion out of this debate, you really have to consider the “Why.”

Why add vertical progression? I assert that it’s because their current model of horizontal progression isn’t retaining customers as they hoped it would. Furthermore, they likely had this entire model in their backpocket if the numbers stacked up this way.

It’s simple, Either you want Guild Wars 2 to be around as a healthy and profitable game for ANet and NCSoft for the next 3-5 years, or you want outdated mechanics from 2004.

They are, in my opinion as ANet has figured out, mutually exclusive, and it’s coming home to roost now as Ascended Gear.

Perfectly said.

In fact I actually hope they bring out even more gears with better stat in the future, so that dungeon can grow in their difficulty as well.

Because they could have very easily just added a set of gear upgrades that didn’t work in the mists and didn’t serve as a gating mechanism to artificially slow players’ progression through the new instance. But instead we get gear grind. Just like every other MMO.

I convinced my entire guild from WoW to move to this game on the idea that the standard never ending grind of gear progression would not be a part of this game. It was the main selling point for them. This announcement and the departure from that philosophy on even the smallest level is just so disappointing and disheartening.

Johnson.4867:

I don’t get it. Before this was even announced the forums were filled with “oh gawd, we’re so bored we have nothing to do”.

Then once they (Anet) gives you a simple task of completing something. The new instance for better gear…which prolly a monkey with downs could complete; we get all mad… makes no sense.

I know I’m not the only one that has been dying for more things to complete. Sorry I don’t find running around the map ‘fun’ I get on video games to kill things, not run around looking at vistas when i could just go outside to look at nature…you know…that ISNT fake.

As stated in other posts, these new, improved posters are just that..new. We were brought here when we saw the Blog post. We are the actual player base of Guild Wars 2, and generally don’t feel the need to come on here and post because we are enjoying the game as is. The people who have been clamoring for gear progression are the few and far between.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Crackbone.5710:

HTXL.2598:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

And horizontal progression gets older faster than vertical.

Precisely.

Pulling all of the emotion out of this debate, you really have to consider the “Why.”

Why add vertical progression? I assert that it’s because their current model of horizontal progression isn’t retaining customers as they hoped it would. Furthermore, they likely had this entire model in their backpocket if the numbers stacked up this way.

It’s simple, Either you want Guild Wars 2 to be around as a healthy and profitable game for ANet and NCSoft for the next 3-5 years, or you want outdated mechanics from 2004.

They are, in my opinion as ANet has figured out, mutually exclusive, and it’s coming home to roost now as Ascended Gear.

Evidence for anything you have said = nothing.

Your not smart or clever. We all understand your boring viewpoint now so kindly move along and let us be sad in peace.

Evidence is their update. Also, it’s hard for us to be happy in peace when all the threads are being merged into this depressing ragefest.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Tyr.1965:

Crackbone.5710:

There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

Let the carrot be fun, instead of more stats. Why can’t they just release the new dungeon with the new mechanic but NOT make the gear any better than exotics? They are blatantly trying to appeal to the WoW crowd that only plays to constantly upgrade their gear.

What if I told you the carrot was fun and it had more stats?

The fact that it has more stats forces every competitive player to acquire it in order to reattain equal footing with everyone else, like it was before they decided to introduce this. Success should be defined by skill, not gear. With this new dungeon, they’re making it about gear. If you don’t have the gear, you won’t be able to complete the dungeon. If you don’t have the gear, you won’t be equally geared with the players that do have it in WvW. The mindset of a PvP’er is to gain any edge they possibly can to achieve victory. They will go after this new gear because it has a stat increase over what they’re using. Now they have to do PvE to get the gear they need to PvP. Even this wouldn’t go over well in Warcraft.

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Either you get with the program, that progression is needed and it’s needed now, or you can kiss Guild Wars 2 completely goodbye.

This game needs a carrot that’s not Legendaries. Folks, if you think that this isn’t being done because they are having a retention problem, then you need to look again.

If ArenaNet doesn’t put something in there to keep people playing, and quickly, GW2 is toast. I love the game, but that’s just the truth.

Where are you getting this data from?

Experience.

You don’t change your basic and core philosophy midstream, on a dime, without some external force. If things are humming right along as expected, we wouldn’t be seeing this change now.

Typically it’s money that’s the driving force. They likely have internal data that suggests their retention isn’t where they want it and therefore are introducing this vertical progression mechanic as a way to keep people engaged. Furthermore, the infusion mechanic is a gate to keep folks from burning through the new content at the rate they have been.

So, you have no proof what-so-ever to back up your claim that this game is dying.

My experience is that people will also do things to increase their revenue, despite already making a profit. This is especially so in the MMO market when people see Blizzard’s subscription numbers and profit margin as a result of WoW; which is quite frankly and unrealistic goal to strive for.

Every game that attempted to mimic WoW has crashed and burned. Look at all the money and hype poored into SWtOR…which inevitably became known as the TORtanic. This MMO is doing fine, look at the server populations. Anet will continue to make a profit by catering to a different crowd.

This game is not dying and it does not need to change in an attempt to grab people who are already happy in a game that’s been out since 2004 and in which they are established.

This isn’t 2004.

This market demands different things than it did then, especially in this competitive genre.

The writing has been on the wall for a month. One only had to look at the NCSoft 3Q financials to see this was coming. It’s right there in black and white.

Anecdotal evidence is piling up as well. This game isn’t holding people. They play through till 80, and then bail on it.

That isn’t going to keep the company afloat.

that is off topic probably, but NC Soft undertook a financialy huge endeavour going multibranche in Korea (they aquired a mobile phone provider or something), hence they are probably very eager to fix/rig the balance through their various corporations – this kneejerk reaction to reclaim gear grinders isn´t the only rather unpleasant indicator of this in 2012.

Crackbone.5710:

HTXL.2598:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

And horizontal progression gets older faster than vertical.

Precisely.

Pulling all of the emotion out of this debate, you really have to consider the “Why.”

Why add vertical progression? I assert that it’s because their current model of horizontal progression isn’t retaining customers as they hoped it would. Furthermore, they likely had this entire model in their backpocket if the numbers stacked up this way.

It’s simple, Either you want Guild Wars 2 to be around as a healthy and profitable game for ANet and NCSoft for the next 3-5 years, or you want outdated mechanics from 2004.

They are, in my opinion as ANet has figured out, mutually exclusive, and it’s coming home to roost now as Ascended Gear.

Sorry man, but NCSoft’s financials just don’t mimic what you’re posting. Frankly put, the game had a massively successful launch and continues to be successful to this day. The problem is, that the suits who make the decisions get jealous of Blizzard. Period.

You cannot compete with WoW. This has been proven time and time again. The only thing that will kill WoW is Blizzard.

ya but then you’d just be grinding for that “set of gear upgrades” where would you get those so called “upgrades” unless you want them to be free and not have any effort into getting them. Would you like some lobster tail also?

Lordrosicky.5813:

Crackbone.5710:

HTXL.2598:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

And horizontal progression gets older faster than vertical.

Precisely.

Pulling all of the emotion out of this debate, you really have to consider the “Why.”

Why add vertical progression? I assert that it’s because their current model of horizontal progression isn’t retaining customers as they hoped it would. Furthermore, they likely had this entire model in their backpocket if the numbers stacked up this way.

It’s simple, Either you want Guild Wars 2 to be around as a healthy and profitable game for ANet and NCSoft for the next 3-5 years, or you want outdated mechanics from 2004.

They are, in my opinion as ANet has figured out, mutually exclusive, and it’s coming home to roost now as Ascended Gear.

Evidence for anything you have said = nothing.

Your not smart or clever. We all understand your boring viewpoint now so kindly move along and let us be sad in peace.

That’s why I’m not writing paragraphs. No one wants you to be sad either.

Play the game, and see how it pans out. It’s still the same game, with more content. No subscription. Have fun.

Tyr.1965:

Crackbone.5710:

There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

Let the carrot be fun, instead of more stats. Why can’t they just release the new dungeon with the new mechanic but NOT make the gear any better than exotics? They are blatantly trying to appeal to the WoW crowd that only plays to constantly upgrade their gear.

I’m not disagreeing with you on this one.

There are other ways to do this that would be more fun and a better overall way to accomplish the same goal.

The problem is, time. Things like you are suggesting take time to put together, time to balance, time to create.

Gear is the simplest and quickest way to get it done.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Crackbone.5710:

HTXL.2598:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

And horizontal progression gets older faster than vertical.

Precisely.

Pulling all of the emotion out of this debate, you really have to consider the “Why.”

Why add vertical progression? I assert that it’s because their current model of horizontal progression isn’t retaining customers as they hoped it would. Furthermore, they likely had this entire model in their backpocket if the numbers stacked up this way.

It’s simple, Either you want Guild Wars 2 to be around as a healthy and profitable game for ANet and NCSoft for the next 3-5 years, or you want outdated mechanics from 2004.

They are, in my opinion as ANet has figured out, mutually exclusive, and it’s coming home to roost now as Ascended Gear.

Evidence for anything you have said = nothing.

Your not smart or clever. We all understand your boring viewpoint now so kindly move along and let us be sad in peace.

Evidence is their update. Also, it’s hard for us to be happy in peace when all the threads are being merged into this depressing ragefest.

That isn’t evidence though is it. The only people happy are forum trolls who probably have $0 spent in the gem store and have played under 100 hours or havent played much in weeks. nobody cares about them. I play the game and promise you that almost everyone thinks this is the worst update in the history of gaming. This is the fork in the road and the beginning of the end for guild wars 2.

Hunterdan.4921:

Wouldn’t a DPS ring out DPS the Yakkington’s Ring?

Yak Ring
68 power
68 precision
10% magic find

Ruby Orichalcum Ring of the Berserker

92 power
63 precision
6% crit

Or

Coral Orichalcum Ring of the Rampager
63 power
92 precision
63 condition damage

I mean, I’m making the assumption that there would not be great variance of other types of Ascended rings.

The modifications possible with Exotic gear put Exotic gear over Ascended gear in any place other than in the instance of a dungeon in which you would require your infusion slot.

Why yes sir! I think you brought up an interesting point worth discussing!

While your post contains speculation, so does much of this thread.

The notion that only a few pieces of ascended gear will be available, utilized to baseline the dungeon running player base so that the content designed around player skill mechanics rather than the loot people may bring with them is a curious one! This of course leaving Exotic gear the ability to be modified, out gunning Ascended gear in the field.

Let’s think about this, rather than yelling and calling each other names. I would highly doubt that they would make Exotics obsolete in one fell swoop. Again, speculation on my part. But I feel there is such a thing as reasonable, and unreasonable conjecture.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Creslin.1758:

showatt.9413:

FooKFiGhTeR.8153:

pregnable.1954:

FooKFiGhTeR.8153:

Skimmed through this thread as far as I can see this is all speculations.

First and foremost this isn’t a gear treadmill, and GW2 do not require a constant

number in their gamer population. This game is meant to be played by setting goals

and going for it. That is why its not a sub based game in the first place. The devs don’t

even require to bring in a new tier so early on in the game stage but the fact they do

means they got alot more stuffs installed.

If a minority of the population are still in denial and hate the changes or progression

however its called. It might be the time to take a break and maybe come back to Tyria

in a couple of months.

WvW uses pve gear.

Have spent my fair share in WvW and trust me the amount of damage you input isn’t a factor that is just based on a couple of stat points. If your finding yourself in 1v1 situations in your world, your just doing it wrong.

That’s the honest truth right there.

Having the biggest zerg or the greatest coverage is always gonna win you the game no matter how good ur gears are.

WIthout the pvp factor, the new gear is essentially for PVE. So what’s wrong about being able to kill stuff faster OR having something better to work towards rather than pure skins?

Regarding WvW…

Yes, it is true that the bigger zerg will typically win a battle for an objective, and minor statistical differences between players isn’t too big of a deal.

But, you are ignoring a whole other facet of WvW that many of us enjoy immensely. And that is the whole idea of small gank-squads/spec-ops/harassers that just roam around WvW taking out other players…typically larger groups of players due to their superior skill, strategy, builds and yes, level/gear.

The problem we have is that adding another tier of gear means that for us wanting to play that kind of spec-ops role…we will be forced to grind the new dungeon just to be on par with the other players. And that sucks.

Nope. People can still use consumables and have the same advantage.

Maybe, but it’s not nearly as big of a deal. There are the craftable consumables, and they are dirt cheap. I use them, and just about anyone should use them in WvW…so it should normally be fairly even between players with regards to these.

Then there are the BLC consumables…and yes, these can give an advantage, but it’s not really like your average player is going to want to spend the amount of money that would be required to keep these buffs up constantly…that would be ridiculous. They give you a power-up every now and then, and that’s it.

That is nothing compared to the 100% uptime power increase you would get from having a higher tier of gear.

Just wanted to add my voice into the chorus of discontent.

This gear update completely invalidates many of the impressions I was left with after reading and hearing their game vision. It’s different than what has been presented thus far after pre-launch and 2 months in game, and it’s not something I would have paid for previously if I knew this was their intent.

That said, I have paid for the game, and haven’t completed its initial content. I will probably complete at least one character for the full world exploration. But if this update stands or isn’t rectified in a future patch, Anet/NcSoft can count me out for future gem and expansion purchases.

People have been quitting this game for months, to now the player base is getting dangerously low they are forced to take back the no grind philosophy. There was and still is nothing to do at 80 so they did this to change it up.

I feel sorry for the people who buy gems in a game that lies to it’s customers.

Reikou.7068:

showatt.9413:

Enemy becoming harder is …..bad?

I thought having a challenge – and be rewarded for taking on that challenge – is a good thing. Guess I was wrong. Nowadays its all about look and having everything easy.

Challenge like Dark Souls that test your reflexes and ability? Yes.

Challenge like Diablo 3 that tests what kind of gear you have? No.

And with this geargrind, Anet is going the Diablo 3 route.

ah Dark Souls.

I’m sure everyone – excepting the real pro – can takes on the asylum demon in their starting gear.

If Dark Souls has no gear progression, every gear will have the same stat. The fact is, Dark Souls HAS gear progression, but its gear progression is minimal and infinitely more versatile so you don’t feel like you’re being tested on how good your gear is.

When you actually are.

Ofc that is not to say Dark Soul is all about the gear; but then, neither is Gw2.

haha who cares. all this hate. There is barely anything to do in the game right now besides mindless karma farming and leveling new characters to 80. At least this gives you something to do. The player base is bored!

Tyr.1965:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Tyr.1965:

Crackbone.5710:

There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

Let the carrot be fun, instead of more stats. Why can’t they just release the new dungeon with the new mechanic but NOT make the gear any better than exotics? They are blatantly trying to appeal to the WoW crowd that only plays to constantly upgrade their gear.

What if I told you the carrot was fun and it had more stats?

The fact that it has more stats forces every competitive player to acquire it in order to reattain equal footing with everyone else, like it was before they decided to introduce this. Success should be defined by skill, not gear. With this new dungeon, they’re making it about gear. If you don’t have the gear, you won’t be able to complete the dungeon. If you don’t have the gear, you won’t be equally geared with the players that do have it in WvW. The mindset of a PvP’er is to gain any edge they possibly can to achieve victory. They will go after this new gear because it has a stat increase over what they’re using. Now they have to do PvE to get the gear they need to PvP. Even this wouldn’t go over well in Warcraft.

PvP already has its on realm that cannot be pierced by PvE content. WvW and PvE should not be affected by it, it will not be a significant factor in anything.

Now, if you are talking about the insecurities of “competitive” players in the game who for some reason do things normally but have to be on par with other people for whatever reason…that’s a different story.

And for dungeons, find your niche. Quit joining elitist groups. And put more effort in a thread for a LFG system.

People are mad because they just found out they have been cheated and lied to for years.

sphonz.3129:

Ascended gear is so cool. Marginally higher base stats without a usable upgrade slot! SO USEFUL IN WvW! Especially that 10% Magic Find!

It’s obviously intended for PvE only, since exotics with good upgrades will be of equivalent stats (more or less). I guess I better scrap my rare level 79 magic find gear which I use to farm Orr (and everywhere else with since I don’t have a set of exotic armor)! That Ascended gear sure does put it to shame along with the few pieces of exotic armor I wasted with karma! How will I ever be able to progress in PvE in my level 79 rare armor?! THE AGONY

This is what you get for complaining that there is “nothing to do” and you still complain. I’m sure that completing the new content will be possible in exotic gear. It just will be marginally easier and more efficient to do so in ascended gear. The difference between ascended gear and exotic gear is no different than the difference between exotic and rare. Legendary items still remain equal to (now ascended items) and so remain the “best in slot”, which is in line with their game design philosophy of keeping items on an equal power level. Adding a new ascended tier of PvE armor does not break it, nor does it entail a slippery slope into a “gear treadml”il.

WvW.

WvW 1 shot KO’s.

WvW… I guess you do not play it…

showatt.9413:

Crackbone.5710:

HTXL.2598:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

And horizontal progression gets older faster than vertical.

Precisely.

Pulling all of the emotion out of this debate, you really have to consider the “Why.”

Why add vertical progression? I assert that it’s because their current model of horizontal progression isn’t retaining customers as they hoped it would. Furthermore, they likely had this entire model in their backpocket if the numbers stacked up this way.

It’s simple, Either you want Guild Wars 2 to be around as a healthy and profitable game for ANet and NCSoft for the next 3-5 years, or you want outdated mechanics from 2004.

They are, in my opinion as ANet has figured out, mutually exclusive, and it’s coming home to roost now as Ascended Gear.

Perfectly said.

In fact I actually hope they bring out even more gears with better stat in the future, so that dungeon can grow in their difficulty as well.

Difficulty has nothing to do with gear progression. Things don’t get more difficult just because all numbers get higher.

Creslin.1758:

If you look at the stats on the ascended ring vs. the exotic ring…the stats on the ascended are significantly better than the exotic, even considering the gem slotted.

yes they are. This should be normal for a new tier. But as we’ve seen it’s relatively easy to get a new tier item in GW2. In other games you have to run raids for weeks in order to get one, not so here. Who says that this will be different with Ascended items?

The infusions are where the “long lasting” progression is, I think. These make this one dungeon extreme long-lasting but it doesn’t interfere with the content outside of it, am I right?

so we probably get the new tier ring as quickly as it took to get the Exotics, but we do this dungeon again and again (which schould be very varied, since you’ll get a random dungeon part out of a pretty nice pool of dungeon-parts) in order to be able to get deeper into the dungeon.

<3 ArenaNet <3 Linsey <3

I am wondering about the Triforge Pendant though. Currently it has the most stats for an amulet. Will it be outclassed or scaled up?

ArcTheFallen.7682:

So basically, the majority of this game does not want us to be able to get better things to kill the same things they are killing.

WvW does not count, it’s about tactics and zerging. And we do not have PvP let alone 1v1 PvP. Come on guys, we all have that opportunity to get better to fight off the risen or whatnot, I feel like there’s a Zhaitan conspiracy amongst players. They do not want us to be able to fight new enemies.

You can fight new enemies.
Hopefully new enemies just fight better.

Apparently they are as smart or dumb as current enemies just have higher stats.

Apparently it requires infusion to fight them – that is ok.

Just make quests/rewards that allow players to add an infusion slot to current items or upgrade current items.

What would this do?
This would allow a progression (you even have infusion defence 1, defence 2, defence 3) but this would mean the items weren’t more POWERFUL VS THE OLD ENEMIES.

Adding extra stats is trivializing old enemies – there is a reason a down levelling exists after all.

Good god there is a bunch of QQ in this thread. The stats increase is basically equal to a piece of exotic gear with something in it’s upgrade slot. Ascended gear cannot use upgrades which is why it has the increased stats. In many ways exotics are still superior as you can use runes or sigils as they have no upgrade slot. Even a full set is basically like having one extra upgrade slot for one jewel. Considering I pvp in masterwork gear and do just fine against people in exotics I am going to say that you wvw qqers have no room to complain either. The new dungeon, if I read correctly, you goes on forever so they had to do something in order to aid in that. I see no reason anyone should be qqing as there is no reason to do so.

Let’s be real here. The Ascended armor will not add too much for the people clamoring for more to do. All of the new content will be done by the “hardcore” people who were clamoring for stuff to do in 3 days absolutely max. They’ll have their choice Ascended items and will have completed the Fractal of the Mists to content.

I thought ANet had said they LISTENED to the community? I’m sure if we had a poll, the % of people who DON"T want ascended gear would far exceed the ones that do.

One of the main draws to the game is the laid back no grind approach (which tbf still exists) but has made it a lot more accessible for players to enjoy end-game content without having to grind too much to get there.. If after only a few months they’re adding a new gear tier, what will they do when the hardcore players have got all the ascended stuff? Raise the vertical climb even more..? Many casual players are still on the road to 80 and/or still saving for those shiny exotics. is there much need to bother with them now that there’s a higher tier? I certainly won’t be yelling LFG CoF/AC and the likes anymore.

pregnable.1954:

Hunterdan.4921:

Wouldn’t a DPS ring out DPS the Yakkington’s Ring?

Yak Ring
68 power
68 precision
10% magic find

Ruby Orichalcum Ring of the Berserker

92 power
63 precision
6% crit

Or

Coral Orichalcum Ring of the Rampager
63 power
92 precision
63 condition damage

I mean, I’m making the assumption that there would not be great variance of other types of Ascended rings.

The modifications possible with Exotic gear put Exotic gear over Ascended gear in any place other than in the instance of a dungeon in which you would require your infusion slot.

Yeah, that is a magic find ring and it is a lot better than normal magic find rings.

An ascended dps ring should be a fair amount better than the exotic one.

If there is such a thing. Again, we speculate that there is an entire new slew of dozens of pieces of gear. Can we really think they would make Exotic, and all manners of gear enhancement obsolete? I dunno, maybe. But it seems like a rather large leap of conjecture.

Crackbone.5710:

Tyr.1965:

Crackbone.5710:

There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

Let the carrot be fun, instead of more stats. Why can’t they just release the new dungeon with the new mechanic but NOT make the gear any better than exotics? They are blatantly trying to appeal to the WoW crowd that only plays to constantly upgrade their gear.

I’m not disagreeing with you on this one.

There are other ways to do this that would be more fun and a better overall way to accomplish the same goal.

The problem is, time. Things like you are suggesting take time to put together, time to balance, time to create.

Gear is the simplest and quickest way to get it done.

They’re releasing an entire new zone, event, and dungeon a few months after launch. The gear is just one small part of it. The work is already done. Why does this gear have to have a stat increase over exotics? They even said why in their blog about it: to give the “hardcore” players a new carrot on the stick to chase. Too bad that once they get this new gear, they’ll be quitting the game again and crying on the forums until ANet gives them the next carrot. It never ends with that vocal minority locust swarm.

Johnson.4867:

ya but then you’d just be grinding for that “set of gear upgrades” where would you get those so called “upgrades” unless you want them to be free and not have any effort into getting them. Would you like some lobster tail also?

You totally missed the point. The operative parts of my post were the lines about not working in the mists (won’t screw WvW for the people who don’t want to grind PvE) and not gating the new instance (gating mechanisms are terrible, every other MMO learned this and stopped doing them).

The way it’s in now, if you want to remain max stat in WvW, you go grind the new instance. You want to get farther in the new instance, you grind the new instance. See the problem?

pvtpublic.8752:

haha who cares. all this hate. There is barely anything to do in the game right now besides mindless karma farming and leveling new characters to 80. At least this gives you something to do. The player base is bored!

hell yeah.

horizontal progression work wells for a game like Gw1, but when you’re going after every other MMO’s player base, you need something better to keep them satisfied.

i really think they should’ve at least attempted to expand on and improve the cosmetic based end game paradigm. which ofc we see them abandoning without having put any further effort into it.

i love getting and having multiple out fits for my toons. but gws has some hefty barriers to this.

if i want to have multiple outfits i must first grind out the stat gear. this may mean for example grinding out let’s say 4 exalted berserker sets. then i have to buy transmutation stones, which a pack comes with only 5 stones, when there are 6 armour peices to a set. then i have to grind out the gold for each cosmetic only look i want for each set.

then there is no easy/condusicive way to store and switch between sets. each set takes up 6 slots in my bags, which i must buy special bags for, which the cost of each is primarily vendor mats which are the vast majority of the cost of crafting these items.

on top of that there is very little variety to the skins availible. to get a set of skins for each order i must do some extreme hoop jumping. i can’t use cultural armour from other races, and in general, there just isn’t much variety to pick from anyway. many skins look similar to each other. the ones that stand out are common picks, because there are so few of them to choose from.

the method for reskinning is destructive. to get a new look on a piece of gear, i must remove the old look FOREVER, or regrind that same piece of gear out to get the look again. this may seem like it will fuel cash shop sales on the surface, but in practice it acts as a prhibtive measure against reskinning at all.

i would suggest removing transmutation stone mechanic, and instead having wardrobe slots. the first set slot is included on the character. each additional wardrobe set is a reasonable price, say 400-600 gems. this may seem more finite than transmutation stones one the surface, but actually has more long term potential than the transmutation system.

as well the variety of skins should be expanded upon. more skins sets, and more variety of styles and looks for them.

fruther more, more town clothing sets, that are obtainable through gameplay directly, and not purely in limited time events as a token effort. the efforts people will go to towards obtaining multiple town clothing sets, of different looks and styles than what has been available so far, will help the longevity of the game, thus increasing the revenue potential.

showatt.9413:

In fact I actually hope they bring out even more gears with better stat in the future, so that dungeon can grow in their difficulty as well.

… What?

A dungeon’s difficulty depends on how strong the dungeon is relative to the strength of the players. It doesn’t magically get harder when the numbers go up if your numbers are going up at the same rate, and increasing the dungeon’s numbers without touching your numbers increases the difficulty without introducing a gear grind.

In fact, what you’re asking for with new equipment tiers is for the game’s overall content to be reduced in difficulty. The newest, toughest dungeon will be set according to the level of power you can achieve by getting the new equipment from that dungeon, and every single earlier dungeon gets progressively easier and easier, because it was designed and balanced around a maximum equipment power level lower than what you’re now using.

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

I couldn’t have said it better than myself. Some people on the forums have said how [it’s ok to take a break if they get bored at endgame and just come back with each new expansion or big/holiday event] – no, the developers don’t want people having that mindset that GW2 is a casual MMORPG. They want people logged on as much as possible or else people might find other games during their break and never return. Ascended gear = endgame retention.

Angel.1435:

I thought ANet had said they LISTENED to the community?

This might very well be the last chance to prove that.

Tyr.1965:

Crackbone.5710:

There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

Let the carrot be fun, instead of more stats. Why can’t they just release the new dungeon with the new mechanic but NOT make the gear any better than exotics? They are blatantly trying to appeal to the WoW crowd that only plays to constantly upgrade their gear.

Oh boy, that would be so much fun. Each few months more content, more skins that we can buy (even for real world cash), but you can take a break and come back six months later and still have items that are as good as the others.

Well, the dream is over. You need to play this daily to have the items that you need for the next dungeon.

I think it is time to go back to WoW. At least this is the original.

As this thread currently sits at 88 pages, I’m certain these points have been covered multiple times. Seeing as how some newer posts need answering (read they didn’t read the entire threadnaught), I will add my thoughts:

The ascended devblog post indicates ascended as the next tier of armor. The piece of gear used as an example happened to be explorer gear. If they posted rampage gear, would the argument be: It’s only rampage gear everything else is fine and not changing? Infusion slots are the only thing that is supposed to be specifically for the new dungeon. Let’s hope that doesn’t change. Should ascended upgrades be introduced, then we’ll find exotics possibly match ascended gear. Until then, having an upgrade slot doesn’t matter, when the ascended base stats are better than exotics with an exotic upgrade.

Most importantly, already introducing a new tier of gear this early in the game does not bode well for those of us who wished to avoid the gear grind of MMOs past. It’s too early to tell, but I, as with most against this, are fearful of what the future holds. Should this happen again, there will be no doubt as to Arenanet’s intent. Until then, I will revert to a wait and see approach, as apposed to the going all in approach I had adopted.

showatt.9413:

pvtpublic.8752:

haha who cares. all this hate. There is barely anything to do in the game right now besides mindless karma farming and leveling new characters to 80. At least this gives you something to do. The player base is bored!

hell yeah.

horizontal progression work wells for a game like Gw1, but when you’re going after every other MMO’s player base, you need something better to keep them satisfied.

Work well for all those other MMOs on the market, didn’t it…

Adding a gear grind will make more people leave than make people return. Sorry Anet but your lies will be the death of your game.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Tyr.1965:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Tyr.1965:

Crackbone.5710:

There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

Let the carrot be fun, instead of more stats. Why can’t they just release the new dungeon with the new mechanic but NOT make the gear any better than exotics? They are blatantly trying to appeal to the WoW crowd that only plays to constantly upgrade their gear.

What if I told you the carrot was fun and it had more stats?

The fact that it has more stats forces every competitive player to acquire it in order to reattain equal footing with everyone else, like it was before they decided to introduce this. Success should be defined by skill, not gear. With this new dungeon, they’re making it about gear. If you don’t have the gear, you won’t be able to complete the dungeon. If you don’t have the gear, you won’t be equally geared with the players that do have it in WvW. The mindset of a PvP’er is to gain any edge they possibly can to achieve victory. They will go after this new gear because it has a stat increase over what they’re using. Now they have to do PvE to get the gear they need to PvP. Even this wouldn’t go over well in Warcraft.

PvP already has its on realm that cannot be pierced by PvE content. WvW and PvE should not be affected by it, it will not be a significant factor in anything.

Now, if you are talking about the insecurities of “competitive” players in the game who for some reason do things normally but have to be on par with other people for whatever reason…that’s a different story.

And for dungeons, find your niche. Quit joining elitist groups. And put more effort in a thread for a LFG system.

Spvp is lacking.

WvW is fun.

How about WvW uses pvp gear instead of pve gear?… then I would almost never have to play pve.