Guild Wars 2

Charlie.1726:

Pointless endless debate about gear in this game.

Having so many different armor attributes in an MMO is absurd anyway…

(almost) all other MMOs: wear 1 Set of Equipment, works perfectly fine, much less grind

GW2: 20 (twenty !!!) different armor attribute combinations…. grind multiple gearsets, buy the gems for transmuting off the Gem Store (which is a must because Exotic/Ascended lvl 80 gear is objectively ugly…) = have fun grinding and spending lots of real money!!

The way you play should be defined through your Skills/Traits.

- They could just make it so that whereas now a trait point spent gives you 10 of a certain stat (Power, Precision etc.), it could give 20 or 30 or whatever.

- Have 1 armor attribute combination (doesn’t even matter which one it is in the end – just make it useful to all)

- Whether you’re an offensive dude, a defensive dude or a healing dude is defined only through your Skills/Traits

=
Much less grind, no need to carry around multiple armor sets, balancing encounters is easier as well. No dumb debate about gear.

I agree. Stats are a horrible idea.

Dean Calaway.9718:

Emanuel.9781:

Dean Calaway.9718:

Wow, so much Bull in one post.

TL;DR

Lol, you couldn’t even come up with a single argument to try to defend yourself…

Your first sentence was a pretty good indication that you dont know what you are talking about and its not worth having an arguement with you.

spoj.9672:

Dean Calaway.9718:

Emanuel.9781:

Dean Calaway.9718:

Wow, so much Bull in one post.

TL;DR

Lol, you couldn’t even come up with a single argument to try to defend yourself…

Your first sentence was a pretty good indication that you dont know what you are talking about and its not worth having an arguement with you.

He’s right, and comments like this just reinforce his point. I understand people probably don’t want to grind for a different set of gear, but this meta is killing this game.

Not really. The content can be completed much easier but slower with other gear. The meta is fine in the sense that going all dps is efficient and fast. Its not fine in the sense that its too easy and that condition damage is so poor in comparison.

The meta isnt killing this game. Its the people spewing these complaints about parts of the game that dont even effect them. Resulting in unwarranted nerfs which drive those minorities away from the game. If anet keep doing this they will lose more and more minorities and eventually the game will be dead.

Aeonblade.8709:

spoj.9672:

Dean Calaway.9718:

Emanuel.9781:

Dean Calaway.9718:

Wow, so much Bull in one post.

TL;DR

Lol, you couldn’t even come up with a single argument to try to defend yourself…

Your first sentence was a pretty good indication that you dont know what you are talking about and its not worth having an arguement with you.

He’s right, and comments like this just reinforce his point. I understand people probably don’t want to grind for a different set of gear, but this meta is killing this game.

You do realize that unless they change mechanics, the number crunchers will just find out which gear set produces max DPS/second and that will become the new Meta, right? Then it will be [New Meta] only! It will not change the supposed problem. Because isn’t the supposed problem that groups are only wanting those in berserker gear?

And you do realize that berserker is the glass cannon build? Hits hard, but can’t take a hit. You do realize that for people to survive in berserker builds they have to be good at paying attention to their surroundings. Granted GW2’s glass cannons aren’t as glassy as other games’ glass cannons are. So there is some skill involved for a player who plays on a berserker build.

They would have to change the mechanics of the game in order to fix the actual problem. Smarter AI, difficulty in killing an enemy not created by increasing its health, those kinds of things. Or a drastic change like moving stats from gear to traits. Then any nerfing and buffing would at least be cheaper for players to work around. And there would probably be a lot more build variety because it’s cheap to try out a new build. Reducing the amount of “elite” players who demand zerker only.

I for one, will quit playing if they nerf zerker without giving us free option to change stats. I have 5 characters with ascended zerker gear. I am not going to go through the grind again.

Besides changeable stats, I hope they reduce the amount of HP the enemies have to match the decline in overall dps. Then at least it won’t feel like a nerf. If they nerf zerker without reducing the enemies hp then I would consider retiring from the game. I didn’t grind out full Ascended Beserker to become weaker.

Ashen.2907:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

If they can adjust these coefficients properly, zerker will still be plenty viable but not the out and out dps winner by such a stretch.

That is kind of the problem IMO. The glass cannon gear suite should be the out and out DPS winner by a stretch. Ideally the game itself should have more situations where the zerker tradeoff of survivability or versatility for extra damage is more meaningful. Right now there is little or no opportunity cost for going full berzerker.

No, not by a stretch. Yes, it should be better though not so much so that it turns into ‘the only choice.’ Not so much better that it seemingly renders all others obsolete by comparison. Thus the issue we have right now. It drives the ‘zerker or gtfo’ mentality, which should not exist.

Honestly if they screw with my gear, I’m quitting.

I have 8 geared characters, almost done with full ascended trinkets on them (just accessories not done on some because I don’t do guild missions) and partially there for armor and weapons on my 2 mains… I HAVE tried other builds : condition necro, support guardian, celestial ele, etc… but honestly I always go back because you are just better with zerker gear. Better DPS and still have access to all your skills. I will change my trait setups to get vigor or something if I’m not as good with a class and not always go for top DPS trait builds, but in terms of gear it’s not a question. And that’s fine. It gives new players some leeway with soldier gear for example, letting them learn dungeons and encounters, then they can switch to Zerker and become better players. The other sets have their place in WvW and PvP, where builds are a lot more varied (although PvP is too shallow to really have tons of builds, when it’s just 5on5 capture the point).

If they just go out and make Zerker gear useless after it’s been objectively the best gear for 1.5 years, I will just stop playing. No debate, just done. I’m still enjoying the game, and actually am looking forward to more updates. But I will quit on the spot and never go back if they do something that stupid.

They had the chance to make gear balanced when they were still building game mechanics. They didn’t want the trinity, so by design DPS is the best choice. Support is still important, but in the forms of reflects, blocks, might, stealth, stability, CD removal, etc. You can’t remove the trinity but expect people to play support and healing builds. The game doesn’t work that way.

I already dislike that you can’t crit vs World Bosses as it’s just a slap in the face to everyone that gets Zerker gear. If they add more stuff like this to the game to make the gear useless, or even alter the stats on the gear itself to make it bad, why keep playing? 1 year of grinding different gear later, they may just change it all again to keep you playing.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Ashen.2907:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

If they can adjust these coefficients properly, zerker will still be plenty viable but not the out and out dps winner by such a stretch.

That is kind of the problem IMO. The glass cannon gear suite should be the out and out DPS winner by a stretch. Ideally the game itself should have more situations where the zerker tradeoff of survivability or versatility for extra damage is more meaningful. Right now there is little or no opportunity cost for going full berzerker.

No, not by a stretch. Yes, it should be better though not so much so that it turns into ‘the only choice.’ Not so much better that it seemingly renders all others obsolete by comparison. Thus the issue we have right now. It drives the ‘zerker or gtfo’ mentality, which should not exist.

The fault in that position is that the “X or gtfo” mentality will always exist. The X may change as adjustments are made to the game. There only needs to be a slight advantage for one choice, and that will become the meta.

Adjustments to mobs to introduce more opportunity cost for going glass cannon would make other stat choices more viable — providing those adjustments favor something other than damage. That could be accomplished without touching the stats on berserker gear. That said, I’ve never seen another online game where critical damage could exceed 2.5x base damage — the ones I’m familiar with hit a hard or at least a soft cap at 2×.

If

/13 char

Yargesh.4965:

If

/13 char

Oh, but didn’t you know?

If they do anything that does make zerker as “useless” as any other stat combinations they are destroying it!!!11! ?

i would like to nominate this thread for the Overreaction of the Year award.

Einlanzer.1627:

Fenrir.3609:

Einlanzer.1627:

Zerker needs to be nerfed, badly. I’m not necessarily opposed to a free respec on zerker gear like what they did with MF, but I don’t really think anyone is entitled to it either.

It’s odd how the people who say “zerker needs teh nerfbat!!”, never come up with a valid reason as to why that should be the case.

Yeah, the reasons are self-explanatory. If you can’t see them then it’s because you’re choosing not to, not because people aren’t presenting good arguments. It’s like creationists.

At any rate, as to whether it’s actually zerker stats or encounter design that’s the real problem – to me it seems to be some combination of both, but probably more the latter.

The stat problem is fairly obvious – Zerker represents the perfect triad where all 3 stats have high synergy and functionally no cap, leading to hyperbolic scaling in efficacy, which is pretty much unique to that combination. When you add in the general sentiment that offense>defense, it makes it no contest. The easiest way to address this is to either cap crit or adjust the scaling on it, especially since the crit scaling is the leading culprit behind all scaling issues in the game, including why condition damage is so good while leveling and so lackluster at 80.

The encounter problem is also obvious – most mobs hit too slowly, too predictably, and too hard. This basically requires you to improve your dodging skills and specifically not to rely on your natural defense. There are several potential ways to address this. Mobs should be less predictable and hit more often for less damage. They could also add additional benefits for Toughness and/or Vitality that benefit the active game, such as improving your Endurance regeneration or a chance to ‘shrug off’ conditions.

You are very wrong.

Bad players already DO wear soldier gear (or clerics, etc) and STILL get downed/owned by a lot of fights in this game. If those people wore Zerker gear, they would get destroyed even worse. I pug dungeon trains on a daily basis, I see all kinds of players; and for every good player there’s as many bad ones.

Do you think these people will be able to get through the game if they make it harder, just so people can’t use Zerker anymore? The game USED to be harder, before they changed it so much and nerfed every dungeon encounter to accommodate WP changes in dungeons. If they went back to how difficult dungeons were, or just made them harder than now it’s not the Zerkers that would throw a fit. It’s the ones that already find the game difficult.

Also the benefits you talked about don’t do anything to prevent Zerker from being better. You still just avoid damage with dodge rolling and such.

This entire thread is a testament to the failure of the combat mechanics of the new Trinity.
GW2 has pretty much evolved to a DPS only gamestyle. What is a dev counter??? Nerf the DPS instead of making the combat mechanics more diverse. Just terrible. If they nerf Zerker to oblivion without making other builds more viable, I can see myself taking a break

I agree. GW2 stands as the test to show that actually, players and combat mechanics require the trinity.

You dont need the trinity as long as damage isnt so strong as to outshine everything else. I played ESO and ill tell you something, It doesnt mather if theres a tank it doesnt mather if theres a healer i can run a 5 glass cannon party and still get thing dones, or i can run it as a classic team for the same results.

Guild wars 2 is likely the most balanced game i ever saw when it cames to breaking down the trinity it just happen some people abuse of one sphere of the dps role that should better off be on equal level with the others. once crit damage is fixed well likely see variable damage type within speed run party and more dot/support/control player in casual teams.

Beserker may be good in PvE, but will they at the same time adress the bunker builds in WvW and the heavy condition spam – 25 might stacks, blood lust/corruption and food all adds up and is what’s causing the imbalance. Limit might stacks, make part of critical damage be armor penetration, so low toughness builds aren’t hit so hard. Because in WvW, only the most silly builds will penetrate bunker builds.

If they want to balance it purely for PvE by giving mobs crit resistance, then fine – as long as it doesn’t bleed over and makes WvW even more condition-bunker heavy.

IndigoSundown.5419:

The fault in that position is that the “X or gtfo” mentality will always exist. The X may change as adjustments are made to the game. There only needs to be a slight advantage for one choice, and that will become the meta.

Adjustments to mobs to introduce more opportunity cost for going glass cannon would make other stat choices more viable — providing those adjustments favor something other than damage. That could be accomplished without touching the stats on berserker gear. That said, I’ve never seen another online game where critical damage could exceed 2.5x base damage — the ones I’m familiar with hit a hard or at least a soft cap at 2×.

Yes, the mentality will always exist; however we need to start somewhere when it comes to fixing the issues. Reducing the gap between zerker and other armors is a starting point, and bringing it in line with other sets. It’s fine to be slightly better, thus making it the best option for straight up dps.

Then the next steps are as you suggest. Changing mob AI so straight up glass cannon is not the only ‘acceptable’ way to play, possibly even requiring some defense. Adjusting how defensive stats scale, bringing condition damage into line (and thus making it competitive with) straight dmg. So and so forth, but we have to start somewhere.

kyubi.3620:

You dont need the trinity as long as damage isnt so strong as to outshine everything else. I played ESO and ill tell you something, It doesnt mather if theres a tank it doesnt mather if theres a healer i can run a 5 glass cannon party and still get thing dones, or i can run it as a classic team for the same results.

Guild wars 2 is likely the most balanced game i ever saw when it cames to breaking down the trinity it just happen some people abuse of one sphere of the dps role that should better off be on equal level with the others. once crit damage is fixed well likely see variable damage type within speed run party and more dot/support/control player in casual teams.

You mean like condi/bunker users are abusing the meta in WvW and spvp? The same builds which can also do the pve content. Why are you not making endless posts asking for a condi or bunker nerf again?

Well, 10% damage reduction essentially. Without counting probable nerf to scholar runes since all of them were changed. Yippe.

Mimizu.7340:

i would like to nominate this thread for the Overreaction of the Year award.

Well turns out it not an overreaction at all. They actually have to give people the option to change stats on zerker pieces now. No ifs or buts.

morrolan.9608:

Well turns out it not an overreaction at all. They actually have to give people the option to change stats on zerker pieces now. No ifs or buts.

Why?
They are not removing any stat (true, they are changing one, but it is not zerker specific) and thus no real reason to allow change of gear.

Or should they allow everyone that have said stat on any of their gear to get a free change?

If they significantly change any stat on any gear they should allow that players with that gear a choice of stats. This applies especially given the length of time it takes to make ascended gear.

No they shouldn’t. That would mean giving every player a gear switch every kitten patch.

Grow up.

Fenrir.3609:

lordkrall.7241:

morrolan.9608:

Well turns out it not an overreaction at all. They actually have to give people the option to change stats on zerker pieces now. No ifs or buts.

Why?
They are not removing any stat (true, they are changing one, but it is not zerker specific) and thus no real reason to allow change of gear.

Or should they allow everyone that have said stat on any of their gear to get a free change?

Given that they have in their infinite wisdom relatively recently introduced time gated BiS gear and given that said nerfs are utterly idiotic. Yes.

I have to agree with this. Although, I’d say that the free stat change should only be applied to ascended gears…. I don’t have ascended armors, but I think had I, I would feel extremely cheated, if the gear I made was no longer optimal for my play style.

chemiclord.3978:

No they shouldn’t. That would mean giving every player a gear switch every kitten patch.

There’s a change to the actual stats on gear every patch?

people cry too much

morrolan.9608:

Mimizu.7340:

i would like to nominate this thread for the Overreaction of the Year award.

Well turns out it not an overreaction at all. They actually have to give people the option to change stats on zerker pieces now. No ifs or buts.

no they don’t. It was an overreaction.

the way you lot are behaving, i dont think you deserve anything at all.

acting like entitled brats who will throw a tantrum if they dont get what they want.

check out my Have A Break thread, and have one.

It’s a 10% reduction to the crit bonus, from what I’m hearing… not 10% to berserker’s overall damage. It sounds like an attempt to curb the obscene amounts of spike damage those sort of builds can generate more than anything.

And the point I was trying to make is that if they felt compelled to offer a stat change every time a change of that magnitude occurred, they’d have to offer a stat change to players just about every patch day. This is much ado about nothing.

LittleLepton.8915:

I have to agree with this. Although, I’d say that the free stat change should only be applied to ascended gears…. I don’t have ascended armors, but I think had I, I would feel extremely cheated, if the gear I made was no longer optimal for my play style.

So every update where they change a skill or trait that might make my play-style (and thus my stats) no longer optimal I should get a free stat-change?

On the surface, it actually seems like a good change. Crit % + Crit damage created out of whack hyperbolic scaling relative to other sets. It needed to be changed.

chemiclord.3978:

It’s a 10% reduction to the crit bonus, from what I’m hearing… not 10% to berserker’s overall damage.

And the point I was trying to make is that if they felt compelled to offer a stat change every time a change of that magnitude occurred, they’d have to offer a stat change to players just about every patch day. This is much ado about nothing.

They are actively trying to change the dps meta in pve. These changes are not final and are the tip of the iceberg. A 10% reduction is the minimum we can expect.

If everyone was still running about in exotics which are easy as heck to replace, such changes would not be an issue. But ANet introduced Ascended and as such have made their bed, now they have to lie in it.

It was obvious people would complain given the time gated BiS gear, it was even more obvious given the fact that the changes mentioned thus far will do nothing to promote diversity and a beta pve meta in the future.

Will they allow people to change ascended? Probably not.
Is some annoyance to be expected, yes, yes it is.

And ya know what… when you get to that iceberg THEN you can worry about your boat sinking. Until then, take a deep breath, relax, and try and convince the captain to steer around it.

chemiclord.3978:

It’s a 10% reduction to the crit bonus, from what I’m hearing… not 10% to berserker’s overall damage.

Apparently they said there will be a 10% reduction to the damage of an all zerker build. That is a significant reduction.

chemiclord.3978:

And ya know what… when you get to that iceberg THEN you can worry about your boat sinking. Until then, take a deep breath, relax, and try and convince the captain to steer around it.

I’m not worried about it. I knew a wholly ineffectual nerf was coming because it is what ANet do. I also never expected them to allow me to replace any gear, even though I feel given the recent introduction of BiS it would be the right thing to do (again not expect from ANet).

I think though people are allowed to point out that they think it is a pretty crud situation in general.

lordkrall.7241:

LittleLepton.8915:

I have to agree with this. Although, I’d say that the free stat change should only be applied to ascended gears…. I don’t have ascended armors, but I think had I, I would feel extremely cheated, if the gear I made was no longer optimal for my play style.

So every update where they change a skill or trait that might make my play-style (and thus my stats) no longer optimal I should get a free stat-change?

This is an entirely different thing from a trait change here or a skill change there. It’s changing an entire stat. Learn how to scale.

I’m going to eat my words now. They are indeed nerfing zerker gear (by ~10% they said), and I’m very disappointed with the dev team. Here I was hoping they would actually make other builds more viable.

Instead, they make the strongest build 10% less strong, while doing absolutely nothing to other stats to make them more desirable in pve situations. Shame on me for having even the slightest amount of faith in ANet.

AI and mobs in general are fine as is, and this coming from my clerics warrior(heal shouts.. want to convert her to full pvt maybe, cause healing on a warrior is going to be a massive joke) with zerker weapons… don’t make mobs more tedious to kill on your own than they need to be.

Just like the majority of us thought they are nerfing crit dam %.

The details seem to be its changing to ferocity and a actual stat, which will be equal in value to your 2nd highest stat on you gear.

The devs have indicated that anyone with crit dam % on there gear now (note, not just berserker but celestial as well and any type of gear armour, weapons, trinkets) will lose 10% of the damage.

RIP Assassin. Called it.

Welp, better get saving my Damasks again….

Meglobob.8620:

Just like the majority of us thought they are nerfing crit dam %.

The details seem to be its changing to ferocity and a actual stat, which will be equal in value to your 2nd highest stat on you gear.

The devs have indicated that anyone with crit dam % on there gear now (note, not just berserker but celestial as well and any type of gear armour, weapons, trinkets) will lose 10% of the damage.

Does it mean if you have celestial (no 2 major stats, all are equal) then your ferocity is also very average ?
Then they nerf celestial

WRay.2391:

Meglobob.8620:

Just like the majority of us thought they are nerfing crit dam %.

The details seem to be its changing to ferocity and a actual stat, which will be equal in value to your 2nd highest stat on you gear.

The devs have indicated that anyone with crit dam % on there gear now (note, not just berserker but celestial as well and any type of gear armour, weapons, trinkets) will lose 10% of the damage.

Does it mean if you have celestial (no 2 major stats, all are equal) then your ferocity is also very average ?
Then they nerf celestial

The crit dam % part of celestial will be nerfed, like crit dam % everywhere in GW2.

They will make sure its a 10% nerf and not more hopefully…

If critical damage to ferocity change goes through, this will be a HUGE nerf to all PvE celestial gear. Currently, celestial weapon and armour has as much or more critical damage than berserker gear, and celestial trinkets get 2% less critical damage than corresponding berserker trinkets; it is what makes celestial gear somewhat viable (read: not best by far) for damage even though it has only tiny amount of other DPS stats such as power and precision.

For reference:
(Ascended) Celestial 2H weapon + Celestial armour set gives +230 all stats and 30% critical damage on live.
This will be converted to +230 all stats + 230 ferocity after change.
(Ascended) Berserker 2H weapon + Berserker armour set gives +517 power +369 precision and 27% critical damage on live.
This will be converted to +517 power + 369 precision and +369 ferocity after change.

If one normalizes for 27% critical damage to 369 ferocity conversion ratio for ascended berserker, valkyrie, assassin, and cavalier gear, 30% critical damage on celestial gear mentioned above is worth 410 ferocity. This means that people who have invested in celestial gear for above slots are losing 180 points worth of stats (going from 410 to 230) compared to everyone else who picked a different prefix. Please note that this is independent from critical damage nerf as that affects all prefixes (other than celestial) EQUALLY. Please buff celestial gear to compensate or let people who have invested in celestial gear to choose a different prefix.

TLDR version = celestial gear will lose effective lose stat points compared to all other prefixes with this change, please do something about it.

I think they will work it, so celestial loses 10% damage, exactly the same as berserker gear.

Great, got 8 level 80’s, 1 of each class.

My Warrior, Thief, Mesmer, Guardian have just had a 10% damage nerf because they all use berserker/celestial armour/weapon/trinket sets.

Soooo… when’s another MMO coming out with decent WvW and PvP content?

Meglobob.8620:

WRay.2391:

Meglobob.8620:

Just like the majority of us thought they are nerfing crit dam %.

The details seem to be its changing to ferocity and a actual stat, which will be equal in value to your 2nd highest stat on you gear.

The devs have indicated that anyone with crit dam % on there gear now (note, not just berserker but celestial as well and any type of gear armour, weapons, trinkets) will lose 10% of the damage.

Does it mean if you have celestial (no 2 major stats, all are equal) then your ferocity is also very average ?
Then they nerf celestial

The crit dam % part of celestial will be nerfed, like crit dam % everywhere in GW2.

They will make sure its a 10% nerf and not more hopefully…

What did you mean by “The details seem to be its changing to ferocity and a actual stat, which will be equal in value to your 2nd highest stat on you gear.” ?

I’m happy that celestial crit.dmg might be getting nerfed. It makes no sense whatsoever that an ascended celestial GS gives 11% crit dmg. and ascended zerker gs that I got many copies of only gives 10% crit dmg lol

Ah, there is already thread about celestial stat loss issue

Welcome to GW2.
Knew it was broken from the start.
Still decided to invest in it regardless.
It gets fixed.
Everyone screams nerf.

I am not pointing at you specifically, but everyone here acts like this.

Old Example: Pure of Voice for Guardian was removing 2 shouts when it said 1 in description. Everyone equipped Pure of Voice build. When they fixed it, everyone screamed nerf!

Upcoming Example: Spirit of Nature for Ranger currently healing for 480 per second instead of 320 per 3 seconds. Spirit of Nature is getting moved to 320 per second. Still considered a nerf!

Admittedly the 2 examples I gave would cost you at most 3s50 to change build, and changing your whole Ascended gears because of this nerf will cost you about 1000 times more(literally), but we should all have known that they would not leave 11% Critical Damage on Celestial Ascended Greatsword(where Zerker only has 10%) just like that, it was too good to be true.

Another costly Example: All those expensive Runes and Sigils you bought are about to get changed to have effects possibly completely different from what you bought them for, a.k.a Bait and Switch technique. It does not matter if your current Runes and Sigils stay the same, it suffices for 1 Runeset to be better than your current one to make you spend on that.

Regardless of something broken being fixed or not, this is the pattern:
They will nerf something and all of your money has been wasted because of the builds or stats become invalid. Then they buff something else so that you have to switch to the new meta and gear, which means you grind new gear all over again. No more need for vertical progression, this is totally horizontal. We probably wont get swappable Ascended gear.

To be safe, you need to take the following precautions:
1. Reroll Warrior, they will always get only minimal nerfs and be the best.
2. Grind your Legendaries, they can swap stats at will.