Guild Wars 2

What an selfish, naive idea to completely ruin GW2.

OP, and anyone else actually agreeing with the suggestion to add a subscription fee to this game just to ‘remove’ diminishing returns, I seriously recommend you reflect on it far more than now.

Not only would it annul a rather large majority of players from the game from the subscription alone, but the economy as a whole would take a sharper dive than ESO on release.

Seriously, the worst suggestion I have read on any game forum in a long time. Wow.

the problem, the people who do not subscribe will find the price of everything in the economy rising. reduction of diminishing returns increases total gold in the economy. the price of EVERYTHING goes up after a few months at an accelerated rate compared to today where its fairly steady. those casuals who don’t play excessively will find it harder and harder to buy things. the more gold there is, the greater the demand of items is overall, and low supply items will be bought up faster.
counter argument: with diminishing returns removed for some players, the low supply items will drop more often and reduce prices.
counter: while this is true, more often than not people buy many of these items. think how many people want chaos of lyssa now. with the cost being only 100-150 gold but opening 1000s of bags which take days to farm may not give you one, people buy it instead of farm for it. a limited number of people farm them. i will never buy chaos of lyssa because its so expensive, but i’m never going to get one in a drop. if i earned tons more gold i would buy one up happily, but still have never farmed one. the supply has gone down because of this, so the price will go up. this will apply to almost everything, and the additional gold i and the many others spend on the TP means more gold in everyones pockets to spend, decreasing supply everywhere increasing prices.

You want to pay to farm gold instead of paying to get gold?

Lishtenbird.2814:

i’ll be the first guy on earth to click the “my account” link on this here lovely website, input my credit card information, and activate the subscription.

I’ll be the first guy to click “uninstall” if they charge a 15$/month to be able to farm gold.

The game as it is now is worth its 50 bucks + some seasonal gems for convenience and cosmetic items, but definitely not a “sub fee” plus “buy gold”.

You would be the second guy, I would beat you to it.

DarcShriek.5829:

Lishtenbird.2814:

i’ll be the first guy on earth to click the “my account” link on this here lovely website, input my credit card information, and activate the subscription.

I’ll be the first guy to click “uninstall” if they charge a 15$/month to be able to farm gold.

The game as it is now is worth its 50 bucks + some seasonal gems for convenience and cosmetic items, but definitely not a “sub fee” plus “buy gold”.

You would be the second guy, I would beat you to it.

And I would follow.

Sykper.6583:

What an selfish, naive idea to completely ruin GW2.

OP, and anyone else actually agreeing with the suggestion to add a subscription fee to this game just to ‘remove’ diminishing returns, I seriously recommend you reflect on it far more than now.

Not only would it annul a rather large majority of players from the game from the subscription alone, but the economy as a whole would take a sharper dive than ESO on release.

Seriously, the worst suggestion I have read on any game forum in a long time. Wow.

Well put.

Hard to believe a post like OP’s is serious, but whatever.

Yet another suggestion to throw money at game developers to improve inferior products. Do people not care that businesses will see this mentality and say, “Hey, we can produce inferior products, saving on production costs, and monetize improvements by getting consumers to pay for them!”?

DR should not be felt by players, only by bots. When players do feel it it’s not implemented correctly aka it’s buggy (it also does not seem to help for bots seeing the many gold-sellers). So you are suggesting to pay a monthly fee to have this bug removed. Lol

Devata.6589:

DR should not be felt by players, only by bots.

…and the people that are begging to play like bots.

So, in the end, it’s a stupid idea and ANet said they would never charge subscription so it will never happen. I never felt DR is such an issue when playing and i’m glad it’s there. Better that than this game being overrun by bots. Seen it happen to other good MMO’s and it’s not pretty.

DR is generally good for the economy too. Some addicts that want this subscription nonsense are gonna farm gold all day and how do you stop that which has no life? :P

DR forces you to actually play the game and all it’s content. Are people so addicted to grind? This game is one of the best examples on how MMO’s don’t have to feel like a grind.

There are downsides of DR, of course, but basically, subscriptions – stupid idea.
Want gold? Buy it with gems.

Stupid “hardcore” elitists wanting to ruin a good game.

Nice idea.and you will separate players into two categories.The “poor” players who have to grind and the “rich” players who can pay with real money because its easier to pay to get something rather than work for it(im talking for things in game).And the buy to play becomes pay to win…

Actually in support of this as an option $15/mo. I don’t think people are actually reading the entire OP before responding (for those saying the no sub is a selling point — OP is saying it would be no sub still, you could opt in to pay a sub to have DR and only DR removed).

No other bonuses or extras, just the ability to repeat any content without having diminished returns. This is actually a great idea.

Draknar.5748:

Actually in support of this as an option $15/mo. I don’t think people are actually reading the entire OP before responding (for those saying the no sub is a selling point — OP is saying it would be no sub still, you could opt in to pay a sub to have DR and only DR removed).

No other bonuses or extras, just the ability to repeat any content without having diminished returns. This is actually a great idea.

No it’s not, we all read the post, and even if you “only” remove DR, the difference between the paying and non paying players would be huge!

Then, paying customers aren’t going to be satsfied by having a gem shop because by privilege they should have all that available for 15/month.

And that’s where the problems start, the end result being a ruined game.

Pay to Win pretty much? No thanks, everyone should have a fair chance in this game.

Simple answer for me……The reason I got GW2 was cause it was not pay to play…I will never pay to play anything and to be in a game that people get more just for playing I would stop playing and delete it from my computer period end of story. So I for one hate the idea. But hey opinions are like kittens everyone has one. lol

Long story short, ANet promised no subscriptions and that’s the end of that.

/thread

cephiroth.6182:

dafuk did I just read.

tl/dr: No.

LOL exactly my reaction.

I’ve seen this argument before, and the people involved don’t take into account A: modern economies cannot support subscriptions at the size of the only Anomaly in the room, WoW. and B: using subscription is no guarantee that DR will not be used on players, as we’ve seen by the number of games and game companies who destroyed themselves by adding DR to control loot for the purposes of their own profit numbers. C: adding a sub will further harm the population of the game D : that subscriptions do not guarantee that the money from the subs will be spent on content or improvements which Ironically is exactly what Arenanet helped people realize just before they launched this very game that the OP is enjoying by showing exactly what the Sub money goes to and it’s certainly not to the game. Might I also point out that many reviewers are already pointing out that the money that GW2 has made has not been bounced back to greatly improve GW2, it’s being spent elsewhere. People like Dontain on youtube made such a video about this very spending problem, so if they are doing this now with the current economic model they are running with a shoppe and the TP focused currency conversion system, what makes you think that anything at all will improve with subscription?

So some people do like to farm that much huh. I would say you guys are playing the wrong game. Most of free-to-play MMO requires a lot of farming, perhaps you guys should consider giving those a shot. And you don’t even need to pay that $15 fee.

Draknar.5748:

Actually in support of this as an option $15/mo. I don’t think people are actually reading the entire OP before responding (for those saying the no sub is a selling point — OP is saying it would be no sub still, you could opt in to pay a sub to have DR and only DR removed).

No other bonuses or extras, just the ability to repeat any content without having diminished returns. This is actually a great idea.

Sorry, I don’t agree. There is already an option to spend RL money for faster access to rewards. While GW2 DR is an issue, I still don’t think encouraging developers to create inferior products and then pay them to bring them up to what ought to be the standard for quality is a good idea.

If you would pay that money each month why don’t you actually convert each month 15$ worth gems into gold and be done with it?

“Make a $15 per month fee to eliminate diminishing returns only.” – Is a an ideal that would not happen here in the real world. Because Anet wouldn’t just do that one specific thing. What would happen, is all the non-subscription players would become second class citizens. IMO, it would destroy the economy and the player base.
Instead of paying a subscription for what amounts to a farming fee, why not spend that money at the gem store instead? $15 → gems → gold

Paying to farm for gold, kinda counter-intuitive.

Also, will the cup be half full or half empty? How will new players see this, are the paying members getting a buffed drop rate or are the free players getting a nerfed one?

Was worth the forum suspension.

bigmonto.4215:

So some people do like to farm that much huh. I would say you guys are playing the wrong game. Most of free-to-play MMO requires a lot of farming, perhaps you guys should consider giving those a shot. And you don’t even need to pay that $15 fee.

Problem is that many people play to get the rewards. Since this game doesn’t reward you for playing challenging content, these people (who in other games would be hardcore raiders) shift to mindless farm in order to optimize their gold income in order to get the shinies they want. Diminishing returns partially kills mindless farm they think is the optimal way of playing this game. Frankly i’d rather watch tv than farm in this or any other game (and that’s saying a lot!)

The curious thing is, for 15 a month and the time they seem to have to play, they could be playing other MMORPGS with challenging group content instead, and they would get shinies that actually mean you did something not everybody can, instead of the shinies in this game, that are a certificate of time loss.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Paying 15 dollars a month just to be able to farm properly.

Bullkitten.

I agree ^^^

OP is being shortsighted not seeing the bigger picture of direction of the game and issues around this sort of thing. Many play guild wars 2 because they don’t want to pay $15 sub each month that is forced on you to play a game. Spending money in the gem store is 100% optional and not forced on us even though some will say it is.

Stiofan.6720:

Ok so you want to pay real money so you can farm in a game more efficiently? Yeah nc$oft probably thought of that and said "I know lets just give players the option to buy “gems” and convert them to gold, that’s much easier" case closed.

Farming have been nerfed few times and added time gated rewards to keep economy in check with player income rate despite the ability to buy gems since day one.

If this game becomes one of those where I have to pay a monthly fee, I’m gonna shoot myself, lol

nolij – wanna p2w – go play tanks and leave gw alone

It’s a “no” for me as well.

I come from other MMOs (probably like the majority of other people), and I think this one has a pretty smart money-making model. You don’t pay a sub, and never have to actually pay anything after buying the game, but you never feel left out. My opinion, anyway.

Veprovina.4876:

Long story short, ANet promised no subscriptions and that’s the end of that.

/thread

And if they ever added subscriptions the maiority of people would just quit altoghether… I have trouble logging in WITHOUT a subscription fee.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Yet another suggestion to throw money at game developers to improve inferior products. Do people not care that businesses will see this mentality and say, “Hey, we can produce inferior products, saving on production costs, and monetize improvements by getting consumers to pay for them!”?

Actually adding something like DR increases production costs because it’s an extra layer of code that has to be designed and implemented and you have to pay someone for the time they spend doing that.

Making the drop rate constant would be much simpler, and the easiest would be each enemy having a 100% chance to drop one specific item, because then you don’t need to bother with loot tables and RNG, just enemy dies > item appears.

But then your economy is going to be a mess, or non-existent because supply would massively outstrip demand.

Danikat.8537:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Yet another suggestion to throw money at game developers to improve inferior products. Do people not care that businesses will see this mentality and say, “Hey, we can produce inferior products, saving on production costs, and monetize improvements by getting consumers to pay for them!”?

Actually adding something like DR increases production costs because it’s an extra layer of code that has to be designed and implemented and you have to pay someone for the time they spend doing that.

That would be true in a new game. DR already exists in GW2. Leaving DR in place is thus cheaper with regard to production costs. Rather than withholding money (i.e., don’t buy gems) to encourage the developer to improve the quality of the game for those who bought it, the OP wants to throw money at them to improve it for him. Over the long haul, this is not a positive trend for consumers in general. It’s an issue of value for money versus crap for money plus more money for value.

Danikat.8537:

Making the drop rate constant would be much simpler, and the easiest would be each enemy having a 100% chance to drop one specific item, because then you don’t need to bother with loot tables and RNG, just enemy dies > item appears.

But then your economy is going to be a mess, or non-existent because supply would massively outstrip demand.

And Tyria would be a beautiful place.

But seriously, it would be great if specific mobs had a 10 – 25% chance to drop a particular, desirable item (Lodestones and cores, for example).

Currently : You can pay to have gems and complete with casual farm
Your idea : You can pay to farm like a nolife

Definitively better for people and Arena.net to stay with the current system ! Same result, less farming, less boring.

Monthly fees, GW2’s one buying point is that it has no monthly fees.

If such were to be introduced to GW2, it’s a death sentence to the game, and would very likely lead into closing of the servers very soon…

Your idea: P2W, since free players woulnd’t be able to gain required resources needed. Like some already said: farm like nolife…
ANet designed GW2 so that you move around the game world and gain resources as you play, not that you stay in 1 map and farm champion train.

I am already willing to buy the next expansion, because the game is good and developing, and has no monthly fees.

Defend.9678:

I disagree with this entirely the whole guildwars model was built around “no subscription fee ever” and by adding something like they will cause a huge negative uproar to pretty much 90% of the community who are casual.

There are diminishing returns in place for a reason, if by giving select few who pay benefits to farm so much gold very quickly, which they would if given the chance it would completely destroy the economy, for example If the farmers pay this amount to farm all the time and get so much gold, the gold will slowly become less and less valuable and prices will rise on the trading post because people can just buy anything. Then there are the people without these privileges, struggling to ever keep up with the constant price rises and never being able to afford items they may want from the trading post.

It creates a divide which isn’t wanted or needed in guildwars.
You say how simple it is yet you haven’t even bothered thinking about the effects that it can have on the game in a whole, yes it may create revenue for anet, but they will also lose half of their playerbase in the process. which probably isn’t worth it.

This.

Plus, you could take that $15/mo and buy 1200 gems, and buy whatever gold that gets you, and then buy directly whatever materials you need to fill the gap left by DR.

notebene.3190:

Defend.9678:

I disagree with this entirely the whole guildwars model was built around “no subscription fee ever” and by adding something like they will cause a huge negative uproar to pretty much 90% of the community who are casual.

This.

Plus, you could take that $15/mo and buy 1200 gems, and buy whatever gold that gets you, and then buy directly whatever materials you need to fill the gap left by DR.

Also known as “Pay 2 Win”…

Just had to post this link to this parody about free to play with pay to win on youtube…
Don’t click it, if you don’t want to watch it, if you don't like videos by Jaltoid...

Sorry, felt like linking it…

FrostSpectre.4198:

notebene.3190:

Defend.9678:

I disagree with this entirely the whole guildwars model was built around “no subscription fee ever” and by adding something like they will cause a huge negative uproar to pretty much 90% of the community who are casual.

This.

Plus, you could take that $15/mo and buy 1200 gems, and buy whatever gold that gets you, and then buy directly whatever materials you need to fill the gap left by DR.

Also known as “Pay 2 Win”…

I guess you can call it whatever you want, it is something you have been able to do since the game launched.

If this thread is about paying a monthly fee to deal with DR, then the solution of buying gems to then buy gold to then buy materials fills the same need, without having to create an additional payment system which would, as Defend stated, and I happen to agree with, have a detrimental effect on the economy.

FrostSpectre.4198:

notebene.3190:

Defend.9678:

I disagree with this entirely the whole guildwars model was built around “no subscription fee ever” and by adding something like they will cause a huge negative uproar to pretty much 90% of the community who are casual.

This.

Plus, you could take that $15/mo and buy 1200 gems, and buy whatever gold that gets you, and then buy directly whatever materials you need to fill the gap left by DR.

Also known as “Pay 2 Win”…

Just had to post this link to this parody about free to play with pay to win on youtube…
Don’t click it, if you don’t want to watch it, if you don't like videos by Jaltoid...

Sorry, felt like linking it…

That’s not pay 2 win.

Pay 2 win is when companies have things that make the game so much easier that those who do not pay are left so far behind that it creates two types of players: those that pay and those that do not pay. Those that pay have much better gear stat wise, get experience much faster, and/or earn money much faster. To the rate of those that do not pay have no chance of ever catching up.

Removing DR via a subscription would be pay 2 win. Those that get DR removed would earn money at a much higher rate than those who do not.

You can only break so many promises before even the most loyal players, even the fanboys, will lose trust. And if you don’t have trust in a company, it’s hard to shell out more money to them. It’s harder to buy other products by that company. It’s easier to jump ship to another game made by a company that hasn’t broken their trust.

No subscription is the main one that at least keeps hope open for those players who have found previous changes to be bad. That the game might change back and they won’t be horribly behind due to their break from the game.

A subscription based model like this would dash that hope. Be the straw that broke the camel’s back for a large number after how many promises broken (or at least perceived and perception is all that matters)?

Pay to win: “give paying players edge over free to play players”.

If free to play players cannot gather the resources to be on same level as paying player, it’s a pay to win, you can’t get the resources on your own, you need to pay real money to get the gold and crap…

Right now GW2 is play to win, but many players are still obsessed with the 1 spot farming, since moving around the game world is “a world of hurt” and “unfair” to them…

GW2 was designed that players play the game and move around the game world, not stay in 1 map and repeat same action for easy gold.

ANet nerfed griffon farm near augury rock in GW1, since it was 1 spot farm (I figured a name now for farming that occurs in 1 map and repeats there).

Diminishing return is a system to prevent players from gathering into one place and get more than what a adventuring player could get, by repeating the same spot again and again…

It’s also to prevent bots from gaining most resources and then possibly taking over the whole economy for a gold seller, if players think that bots give cheap materials and let them be…
I’ve actually heard that some players think that bots give cheaper materials and thus let them be…

Monthly fees, GW2’s one buying point is that it has no monthly fees.

If such were to be introduced to GW2, it’s a death sentence to the game, and would very likely lead into closing of the servers very soon…

Just to clarify:

The OP seems to be suggesting an option to spend real world money to increase his in game wealth…

…An option that already exists.

nolij.4327:

$15 month for VIP access = unlimited potential for gold, limited only by your dedication to ACTUALLY PLAYING the game content, which last time i checked, is the purpose of a video game. to actually play it. and you know, get rewarded for A C T U A L L Y P L A Y I N G I T.

‘A C T U A L L Y P L A Y I N G I T’ = no-lifers and bots pressing 1 repeatedly at the same mobs for twenty hours a day.

Uruz Six.6594:

nolij.4327:

$15 month for VIP access = unlimited potential for gold, limited only by your dedication to ACTUALLY PLAYING the game content, which last time i checked, is the purpose of a video game. to actually play it. and you know, get rewarded for A C T U A L L Y P L A Y I N G I T.

‘A C T U A L L Y P L A Y I N G I T’ = no-lifers and bots pressing 1 repeatedly at the same mobs for twenty hours a day.

yes, that is the definition of an MMORPG. i think you were trying to make a witty retort to my idea, but in an ironic and hilarious twist, you’ve just fully supported it instead

nolij.4327:

yes, that is the definition of an MMORPG. i think you were trying to make a witty retort to my idea, but in an ironic and hilarious twist, you’ve just fully supported it instead

Here is the dream ‘MMORPG’ you have been looking for, then.

You can thank me later.

Translating the topic name:

“15€-£-$/month for Super Duper Easy Easy Farmer Joe mode, because achievements and really playing a game is for losers!
Break the game economy by flooding it with now worthless rare materials that were rare before, because of the evil Diminishing Returns!
Take it, it’s Eternity for 10 gold, or Twilight and Sunrise for 5 gold per legendary!
The future is now!!!”

“For another 15€-£-$/month more, and you get legal GW2 Autobot to play the game for you!!!”

FrostSpectre.4198:

Translating the topic name:

“15€-£-$/month for Super Duper Easy Easy Farmer Joe mode, because achievements and really playing a game is for losers!
Break the game economy by flooding it with now worthless rare materials that were rare before, because of the evil Diminishing Returns!
Take it, it’s Eternity for 10 gold, or Twilight and Sunrise for 5 gold per legendary!
The future is now!!!”

“For another 15€-£-$/month more, and you get legal GW2 Autobot to play the game for you!!!”

That’s an oversimplification, and I do not agree with the OP’s solution. However, I should point out as someone who’s played since BWE2 that for the first two months rare materials were rare without the need for DR in the first place, and that their placing DR in the game wasn’t to change the economy it was put in there to stop bots. However again, it didn’t stop the bots and the problems it’s caused even for the normal gameplay aspects of the game have been widely ignored by the developers for whatever reason and has harmed even people who just play the game normally.

I myself have recently started experiencing a bug where boss chests/bags give me Unidentifiable Objects (greys) instead of the normal rares/exotics and it doesn’t matter the amount of magic find I have going at the time it still happens daily. I reported this over a week ago but it’s been happening to me steadily for weeks now on top of yet another bug with gathering materials where the endless and orichalcum tools often make me receive greys from the gathering nodes in the open world. Yes I’ve reported that bug as well.

So it’s definitely becoming an issue again. The last time this happened it took DR making the boxes and bags disappear entirely from open world, then it spread to the WvW, then it spread to the dungeons before something was done.

I think they need to just admit that DR didn’t do a single thing to stop bots or gold sellers and remove it. It’s not doing anyone any good.

Odd, GW1 has same system, was added some time later or was in the game since beginning, Anti-farm Code as it’s called.

Still, Diminishing Returns promotes adventure, since “1-spot farming” is not an adventure, it’s just repeating act of killing same mobs over and over again in 1 map, very rarely includes moving to another map.

The price of everything would skyrocket, you’d need to sub to farm enough to afford anything. This is such a terrible suggestion :p

Either way if you want gold and items, you can put your $15 into the gem store and get it already.

You’re supposed to do different dungeons and different bosses, not the same one repeatedly.

nolij.4327:

Ashen.2907:

Just to clarify:

The OP seems to be suggesting an option to spend real world money to increase his in game wealth…

…An option that already exists.

$15 month converted into gems = 1200 gems = 96 gold

not only a pathetically low amount of gold, but that’s being GENEROUS, as i used 8g/100gem to calculate that, and 8g is a roundup of the average price. in reality you’d get even less than 96g

now another figure…

$15 month for VIP access = unlimited potential for gold, limited only by your dedication to ACTUALLY PLAYING the game content, which last time i checked, is the purpose of a video game. to actually play it. and you know, get rewarded for A C T U A L L Y P L A Y I N G I T.

seriously people, can we use our brains a little bit before posting anymore replies such as this one? this is getting exhausting.

Ashen made no comparison to RoI for paying cash for gold, only noted that the option exists. In fact, it does exist. The fact that you consider the return on investment to be “pathetic” doesn’t change that.

Speaking of not considering the full ramifications of what’s being typed… this game already offers a tremendous advantage in purchasing power to the “dedicated” I-want-to-get-ahead players. It does not need a greater spread.

“Unlimited potential for gold…” does not sound like a great idea for the game’s economy, though I’ll grant that if you consider yourself to be a “dedicated” player, it might be an advantage for you. However, what any one player or group wants cannot be the deciding factor in the economic design in a game. The fact that “unlimited” gold cannot be obtained for $15/month is either by design or by a fortuitous offshoot of design — and it ought to stay that way.

nolij.4327:

Uruz Six.6594:

nolij.4327:

$15 month for VIP access = unlimited potential for gold, limited only by your dedication to ACTUALLY PLAYING the game content, which last time i checked, is the purpose of a video game. to actually play it. and you know, get rewarded for A C T U A L L Y P L A Y I N G I T.

‘A C T U A L L Y P L A Y I N G I T’ = no-lifers and bots pressing 1 repeatedly at the same mobs for twenty hours a day.

yes, that is the definition of an MMORPG. i think you were trying to make a witty retort to my idea, but in an ironic and hilarious twist, you’ve just fully supported it instead

Just…

…….wow.