Guild Wars 2

BlaqueFyre.5678:

@OriOri

There more than just Mystic Forge Dailies and daily log in to get mystic Coins they are based on RNG like everything else in game that’s used in recipes, crafting Mystic Clovers can Net you 5 or 50 coins, as well as The Daily Fractal tier Chests provide an Avenue to obtain the coins. These are fine as is.

Yes other items require them but most are prestigious or have exponential value those feast recipes give unlimited food buffs for 5 minutes that is huge just to craft the recipe, it’s not like they are needed to make the actual food, and if you try to use the whole well all kinds of Guild hall upgrades require them then you should factor in that Guilds are normally more than 1 person and you can ask for the coins to be donated.

That doesn’t address the issue that there just aren’t enough MC entering the game to make these items feasible for more players to craft. I’m not saying the items should be cheap, but the current amount of MC needed for crafting is way too high compared to how few enter the game (and you cannot farm more of them). Best solution is to just lower the amount of recipes that need mystic coins, and reduce the number of mystic coins needed in non legendary related recipes (excluding those few skins that are supposed to cost thousands of gold, like that bat shoulder one from halloween).

I mean seriously, just to craft all of the non legendary weapons that require MC would take 4,340 MC. That is more than 173 months worth of players’ daily logins assuming 25 coins per month (which ~5 MC forge dailies a month), and still requires more than 144 months worth of players’ daily logins if you assume 30 coins per month per player. Either way that is over 12 years of players’ daily logins worth to get non legendary weapons for a single player. Note that this is just weapons, no feasts of food recipes, no GH upgrades, no legendary weapons. And it still requires this much players’ daily logins worth of MC. How can you justify that this is balanced? I mean the game has only been out for 4 years.

There are 26 legendary weapons in the game currently, and there are multiple people in the game with all 26 skins (Not sure how many because GW2 efficiency account crawling is offline right now due to a problem with APIs). For every player that has each of those skins, even if we assume that 1/3 of the mystic clovers in total (which is an absurdly high amount at 668) were obtained through chests of loyalty and PvP/WvW rewards, that still means that these weapons would require 1334 Mystic Clovers to be forged from MC, which would require ~4,002 MC for the clovers, and an additional 1,250 for the 5 HoT legendaries. Which would require 5252 MC to forge these 26 weapons. That is 210 months worth of players’ daily logins assuming 25 MC per player, 17.5+ years worth of players’ daily logins were required for each person who has all of the legendary skins. This insane ratio is just not sustainable. Especially when you stop and realize that these are only some of the uses for MC. They are also used extensively in feasts of food recipes and GH upgrades. How can you honestly believe that enough are entering the game to satisfy all of the uses for MC? I just don’t buy it.

Again, this isn’t an argument against high price on MC, this is an argument about the disconnect between how many are generated/coming into the game and how many are required for crafting. I only looked at weapon recipes. MC are just required for far too many recipes and in far too high of quantities. Anet needs to address this, or show numbers that prove this wrong (such numbers would include, but not be limited to, how many people have X skins that require MC to craft, how many people have Y legendary skins, how many players plan on getting skins that require MC and how many do they plan on getting?). And this will just get worse when leg armor is finally finished and released. There is a huge disconnect with MC, and simply letting the market go to kitten will not fix this because it won’t solve the problem of far too many are required for crafting considering their timegated nature.

Consider this:
Alle ACTIVE players want to craft all legendaries and mystic weapons. Will there be enough coins? No! Not in a thousand years.
If those not wanting to craft would sell their coins, it would be fine. Maybe 95% of the players supplying the 5% that craft was Anets intented method. But what if those 5% deplete the market, but not 95% supply the market, but rather, 15-20% supply the market. The rest gets thrown into acount storage.
Gold has a certain value. Fort Knox has a really big supply. Fort knox hoards that, and we know that if fort knox’ contents got on the market, the value of gold wold drop with more than 340%

OriOri.8724:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

@OriOri

There more than just Mystic Forge Dailies and daily log in to get mystic Coins they are based on RNG like everything else in game that’s used in recipes, crafting Mystic Clovers can Net you 5 or 50 coins, as well as The Daily Fractal tier Chests provide an Avenue to obtain the coins. These are fine as is.

Yes other items require them but most are prestigious or have exponential value those feast recipes give unlimited food buffs for 5 minutes that is huge just to craft the recipe, it’s not like they are needed to make the actual food, and if you try to use the whole well all kinds of Guild hall upgrades require them then you should factor in that Guilds are normally more than 1 person and you can ask for the coins to be donated.

That doesn’t address the issue that there just aren’t enough MC entering the game to make these items feasible for more players to craft. I’m not saying the items should be cheap, but the current amount of MC needed for crafting is way too high compared to how few enter the game (and you cannot farm more of them). Best solution is to just lower the amount of recipes that need mystic coins, and reduce the number of mystic coins needed in non legendary related recipes (excluding those few skins that are supposed to cost thousands of gold, like that bat shoulder one from halloween).

I mean seriously, just to craft all of the non legendary weapons that require MC would take 4,340 MC. That is more than 173 months worth of players’ daily logins assuming 25 coins per month (which ~5 MC forge dailies a month), and still requires more than 144 months worth of players’ daily logins if you assume 30 coins per month per player. Either way that is over 12 years of players’ daily logins worth to get non legendary weapons for a single player. Note that this is just weapons, no feasts of food recipes, no GH upgrades, no legendary weapons. And it still requires this much players’ daily logins worth of MC. How can you justify that this is balanced? I mean the game has only been out for 4 years.

There are 26 legendary weapons in the game currently, and there are multiple people in the game with all 26 skins (Not sure how many because GW2 efficiency account crawling is offline right now due to a problem with APIs). For every player that has each of those skins, even if we assume that 1/3 of the mystic clovers in total (which is an absurdly high amount at 668) were obtained through chests of loyalty and PvP/WvW rewards, that still means that these weapons would require 1334 Mystic Clovers to be forged from MC, which would require ~4,002 MC for the clovers, and an additional 1,250 for the 5 HoT legendaries. Which would require 5252 MC to forge these 26 weapons. That is 210 months worth of players’ daily logins assuming 25 MC per player, 17.5+ years worth of players’ daily logins were required for each person who has all of the legendary skins. This insane ratio is just not sustainable. Especially when you stop and realize that these are only some of the uses for MC. They are also used extensively in feasts of food recipes and GH upgrades. How can you honestly believe that enough are entering the game to satisfy all of the uses for MC? I just don’t buy it.

Again, this isn’t an argument against high price on MC, this is an argument about the disconnect between how many are generated/coming into the game and how many are required for crafting. I only looked at weapon recipes. MC are just required for far too many recipes and in far too high of quantities. Anet needs to address this, or show numbers that prove this wrong (such numbers would include, but not be limited to, how many people have X skins that require MC to craft, how many people have Y legendary skins, how many players plan on getting skins that require MC and how many do they plan on getting?). And this will just get worse when leg armor is finally finished and released. There is a huge disconnect with MC, and simply letting the market go to kitten will not fix this because it won’t solve the problem of far too many are required for crafting considering their timegated nature.

One yes you can Farm them you have a chance on Mystic Clover crafting to get either 5 or 50 respectively from 1 or 10 Mystic Coin it is RNG just like trying to farm hardened leather… is it efficient no but you can farm them.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

OriOri.8724:

That doesn’t address the issue that there just aren’t enough MC entering the game to make these items feasible for more players to craft. I’m not saying the items should be cheap, but the current amount of MC needed for crafting is way too high compared to how few enter the game (and you cannot farm more of them). Best solution is to just lower the amount of recipes that need mystic coins, and reduce the number of mystic coins needed in non legendary related recipes (excluding those few skins that are supposed to cost thousands of gold, like that bat shoulder one from halloween).

I mean seriously, just to craft all of the non legendary weapons that require MC would take 4,340 MC. That is more than 173 months worth of players’ daily logins assuming 25 coins per month (which ~5 MC forge dailies a month), and still requires more than 144 months worth of players’ daily logins if you assume 30 coins per month per player. Either way that is over 12 years of players’ daily logins worth to get non legendary weapons for a single player. Note that this is just weapons, no feasts of food recipes, no GH upgrades, no legendary weapons. And it still requires this much players’ daily logins worth of MC. How can you justify that this is balanced? I mean the game has only been out for 4 years.

There are 26 legendary weapons in the game currently, and there are multiple people in the game with all 26 skins (Not sure how many because GW2 efficiency account crawling is offline right now due to a problem with APIs). For every player that has each of those skins, even if we assume that 1/3 of the mystic clovers in total (which is an absurdly high amount at 668) were obtained through chests of loyalty and PvP/WvW rewards, that still means that these weapons would require 1334 Mystic Clovers to be forged from MC, which would require ~4,002 MC for the clovers, and an additional 1,250 for the 5 HoT legendaries. Which would require 5252 MC to forge these 26 weapons. That is 210 months worth of players’ daily logins assuming 25 MC per player, 17.5+ years worth of players’ daily logins were required for each person who has all of the legendary skins. This insane ratio is just not sustainable. Especially when you stop and realize that these are only some of the uses for MC. They are also used extensively in feasts of food recipes and GH upgrades. How can you honestly believe that enough are entering the game to satisfy all of the uses for MC? I just don’t buy it.

Again, this isn’t an argument against high price on MC, this is an argument about the disconnect between how many are generated/coming into the game and how many are required for crafting. I only looked at weapon recipes. MC are just required for far too many recipes and in far too high of quantities. Anet needs to address this, or show numbers that prove this wrong (such numbers would include, but not be limited to, how many people have X skins that require MC to craft, how many people have Y legendary skins, how many players plan on getting skins that require MC and how many do they plan on getting?). And this will just get worse when leg armor is finally finished and released. There is a huge disconnect with MC, and simply letting the market go to kitten will not fix this because it won’t solve the problem of far too many are required for crafting considering their timegated nature.

One yes you can Farm them you have a chance on Mystic Clover crafting to get either 5 or 50 respectively from 1 or 10 Mystic Coin it is RNG just like trying to farm hardened leather… is it efficient no but you can farm them.

You can’t farm them. This isn’t a matter of not being efficient or not, its a matter of you use them up in your proposed method of “farming” them. You aren’t guaranteed to get 50 MC back when you throw 10 in the forge. If you don’t get that result back at least once every 5 tries you are actively taking MC out of the economy, that’s not farming them. That is destroying them.

Lets do some more math here. You have about a 30% chance at getting mystic clovers out of that recipe, and if you don’t get mystic clovers, you have a pool of 8 possible rewards. Only 1 of them contains mystic coins. Statistically you will always lose mystic coins in the long run if you rely on this method to “farm” them. This is just a desperate attempt to pretend like there isn’t a disconnect between how many enter the game and how many are needed. I gave you the math, if you want to refute it then come with real arguments and numbers.

juno.1840:

Obtena.7952:

I don’t see what the problem is here. It’s exactly as JS and Anet said … price will raise to the point where demand and supply are more inline. It’s not speculation that markets will adjust … it’s part of their very nature to do so.

QQing that Mystic coins are ‘expensive’ and claiming that it’s because there is something ‘wrong’ in general with Anet’s approach to let the markets work themselves out shows you don’t know what you are talking about. When the price is ‘right’, people will release their coins to ease the demand.

There are multiple ways the ANet can solve this “problem”, although the problem is different depending upon who you talk to.

ANet’s current approach is “hands off” which is a bit ambiguous — without knowledge of the “hands on” approach, we really don’t know what is different. Of course you can guess, but that’s not factual in any way.

I think what is safe to say is that is Anet is certain that the market behaves in a ‘textbook’ manner, then it’s completely reasonable to believe that it will behave exactly as they believe it should, based on what they know from a textbook. I think that’s completely reasonable approach.

The real failure here is with players that invent their own indicators of what ‘good behaviour’ in the market is, deception intended or not. Then complain that the market isn’t doing what it should be because of those nonsense indicators. This thread is a great example.

OP blames ‘market behaviour’ as the reason he can’t afford MC’s, because he WANTS MC’s. On the other hand, I’m going to encourage market to ‘behave badly’, because I have my own self interests as well. In the end, it’s irrelevant what players think the market should and shouldn’t be doing, because neither of those POV’s are how Anet measure ‘good market behaviour’.

Bottomline is this: Anet must feel that at this point, for whatever reason, they don’t need to babysit the market anymore, so they aren’t. It’s on autopilot. Prices should eventually and truly represent supply and demand. OP doesn’t like that, only because he want’s cheap MC’s, not because it won’t work.

Obtena.7952:

Bottomline is this: Anet must feel that at this point, for whatever reason, they don’t need to babysit the market anymore, so they aren’t. It’s on autopilot. Prices should eventually and truly represent supply and demand. OP doesn’t like that, only because he want’s cheap MC’s, not because it won’t work.

The caveat is that Anet adds new items that require mistic coins, but didn’t introduce a way to generate more to offset the new demand.

They don’t have to offset the new demand with a new supply, but it does add more grind for people who want the upscale items.

There is no caveat … MC’s will adjust to the price they should be based on supply and demand. It’s not the goal of a properly working market to ensure cheap supply to people that want stuff. The market is a balancing act and that view of the market ignores the other side; ensuring people that supply to the market get fair value for the mats they provide. That singular view is one of the player-invented market-behaviours that I’m referring to.

Also a lot of the arguments I see for the adding of or reducing the amount of MC needed are under the assumption that all players want to make all items with Max, which is highly unfeasible and highly unlikely to ever occur.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Also a lot of the arguments I see for the adding of or reducing the amount of MC needed are under the assumption that all players want to make all items with Max, which is highly unfeasible and highly unlikely to ever occur.

Both changes are unlikely to occur at the same time, sure. One of them is likely to occur but it will have a minimal impact on the market as a whole.

This is just a trend with design, and especially economics. If something becomes unhealthy its better to nudge it, rather than take a sledge hammer and flatten the market.

Will it happen any time in the near future, probably not. However, it still will happen. Give it something like 8-10 months, either crafting will see some overhaul, or there will be a change to mystic coin accumulation (and we’ve actually had this one happen a few times already).

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Also a lot of the arguments I see for the adding of or reducing the amount of MC needed are under the assumption that all players want to make all items with Max, which is highly unfeasible and highly unlikely to ever occur.

I’ve shown you numbers. Not everyone has to want to craft all of the MC skins for this to be a problem. Every player only needs to want a handful of them (really 3 or 4 legendaries would do it) before the number of mystic coins needed just to craft all those items surpasses those that enter the game period.

This is a very real problem, not one that you can dodge by saying that people just shouldn’t have realistic hopes of obtaining these skins. After all, all of the endgame progression is cosmetics related in the first place. Telling people that they just shouldn’t want this many MC skins is not a solution, its just an admission that there is a problem here with the amount of MC entering the game and the amount needed for crafting (among other uses)

OriOri.8724:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Also a lot of the arguments I see for the adding of or reducing the amount of MC needed are under the assumption that all players want to make all items with Max, which is highly unfeasible and highly unlikely to ever occur.

I’ve shown you numbers. Not everyone has to want to craft all of the MC skins for this to be a problem. Every player only needs to want a handful of them (really 3 or 4 legendaries would do it) before the number of mystic coins needed just to craft all those items surpasses those that enter the game period.

This is a very real problem, not one that you can dodge by saying that people just shouldn’t have realistic hopes of obtaining these skins. After all, all of the endgame progression is cosmetics related in the first place. Telling people that they just shouldn’t want this many MC skins is not a solution, its just an admission that there is a problem here with the amount of MC entering the game and the amount needed for crafting (among other uses)

The problem is there are a lot more being generated than are being consumed. There are players hoarding them, whether for sale when it hits a certain price or future usage is unknown.

If ANet does anything too drastic to the generation or to the demand, they risk the market dropping them to vendor value. ANet has to move slowly to reduce that hoarded supply before they can do anything noticeable to it. There was a bit of a panic sale when they added the Mystic Coin to a drop of one of the events that only calmed down once people realized it was a once per day thing.

I’m not saying that the coins are sitting at the true equilibrium price and that nothing should ever be done. But they also shouldn’t rush into things. Or we’ll end up with the reverse – Mystic Coins worth the same as it would be to be vendor them.

The problem is that Anet “assumes” that all of the hoarded items will be dumped at a stabilizing price and that will fix the cost of things. That simply isn’t true.

The assumption that everyone is holding what they are waiting for the “right price” is a mistake. I can hold up to 750 of each items in my vault (it’s all the upgrading I wanted and what I felt comfortable with). When I go over 750 I sell them on the TP or give them to my wife so she can get to her vault max (hers is 1500 cause that is what she likes to have/“hoard”).

There isn’t going to be a price on the TP that all these items get to that I feel I “have” to get rid of them. I want to have 750 of every item at all times for personal use/crafting/just in case. For my wife that is 1500. Every person I play with does the same, has a set number of items they hold on to for crafting, etc.

So, with regards to supply, the amount we are holding on to for eternity isn’t going to be dumped in to the market when it reaches the “magic” price. Just like from the demand side, we are not part of the equation because we are being self-sufficient.

Anet saying the available “supply” in game is there and that the TP will fix itself just isn’t an accurate statement.

Ubi.4136:

The problem is that Anet “assumes” that all of the hoarded items will be dumped at a stabilizing price and that will fix the cost of things. That simply isn’t true.

The assumption that everyone is holding what they are waiting for the “right price” is a mistake. I can hold up to 750 of each items in my vault (it’s all the upgrading I wanted and what I felt comfortable with). When I go over 750 I sell them on the TP or give them to my wife so she can get to her vault max (hers is 1500 cause that is what she likes to have/“hoard”).

There isn’t going to be a price on the TP that all these items get to that I feel I “have” to get rid of them. I want to have 750 of every item at all times for personal use/crafting/just in case. For my wife that is 1500. Every person I play with does the same, has a set number of items they hold on to for crafting, etc.

So, with regards to supply, the amount we are holding on to for eternity isn’t going to be dumped in to the market when it reaches the “magic” price. Just like from the demand side, we are not part of the equation because we are being self-sufficient.

Anet saying the available “supply” in game is there and that the TP will fix itself just isn’t an accurate statement.

There’s a price out there that would get you to at least dump a good portion of it. It may be high enough to say that it likely won’t reach that point, but there’s a price out there that would get you and your wife to dump at least part if not most of your stockpile.

Letting the market go as is will let the price either climb to get more people to reach the price in which they’ll dump their supply or it will reach the equilibrium price. ANet’s likely hoping it hasn’t reached that point yet to get more players to dump their supply. ANet knows it won’t dump 100% of the off the market supply. But the more it does dump, the less of an impact any change they do will have.

Ubi.4136:

The problem is that Anet “assumes” that all of the hoarded items will be dumped at a stabilizing price and that will fix the cost of things. That simply isn’t true.

No they don’t … the market will adjust to any situation it’s given. Anet knows that. There is no gamble here. Anet putting the market on autopilot implies that they don’t really care if people unhoard MC’s.

Indeed, there is no particular reason in this game simply to sell items that you dont need right now, unless you are really short of gold .
Ive got heaps of items , MCs included that I dont have a use for right now, but I dont need to sell them as Ive got enough gold to buy what I need right now.
Selling items simply to free up space only makes sense if you are constantly running out of space, and then you will sell the least valuable items first.
No one going to be dumping anything unless there is some major shift in the games economy that requires players to have lots of gold and not much of anything else.

maxwelgm.4315:

Well in a way it is a little economics sandbox,

Its not a sandbox at all, one of the problems is that its continually regarded as such.

Seera.5916:

Ubi.4136:

The problem is that Anet “assumes” that all of the hoarded items will be dumped at a stabilizing price and that will fix the cost of things. That simply isn’t true.

The assumption that everyone is holding what they are waiting for the “right price” is a mistake. I can hold up to 750 of each items in my vault (it’s all the upgrading I wanted and what I felt comfortable with). When I go over 750 I sell them on the TP or give them to my wife so she can get to her vault max (hers is 1500 cause that is what she likes to have/“hoard”).

There isn’t going to be a price on the TP that all these items get to that I feel I “have” to get rid of them. I want to have 750 of every item at all times for personal use/crafting/just in case. For my wife that is 1500. Every person I play with does the same, has a set number of items they hold on to for crafting, etc.

So, with regards to supply, the amount we are holding on to for eternity isn’t going to be dumped in to the market when it reaches the “magic” price. Just like from the demand side, we are not part of the equation because we are being self-sufficient.

Anet saying the available “supply” in game is there and that the TP will fix itself just isn’t an accurate statement.

There’s a price out there that would get you to at least dump a good portion of it. It may be high enough to say that it likely won’t reach that point, but there’s a price out there that would get you and your wife to dump at least part if not most of your stockpile.

Not necessarily. For some people the value in their hoard, to them, is knowing that they have enough of the item to meet their needs at any given moment in the future.

Ashen.2907:

Seera.5916:

Ubi.4136:

The problem is that Anet “assumes” that all of the hoarded items will be dumped at a stabilizing price and that will fix the cost of things. That simply isn’t true.

The assumption that everyone is holding what they are waiting for the “right price” is a mistake. I can hold up to 750 of each items in my vault (it’s all the upgrading I wanted and what I felt comfortable with). When I go over 750 I sell them on the TP or give them to my wife so she can get to her vault max (hers is 1500 cause that is what she likes to have/“hoard”).

There isn’t going to be a price on the TP that all these items get to that I feel I “have” to get rid of them. I want to have 750 of every item at all times for personal use/crafting/just in case. For my wife that is 1500. Every person I play with does the same, has a set number of items they hold on to for crafting, etc.

So, with regards to supply, the amount we are holding on to for eternity isn’t going to be dumped in to the market when it reaches the “magic” price. Just like from the demand side, we are not part of the equation because we are being self-sufficient.

Anet saying the available “supply” in game is there and that the TP will fix itself just isn’t an accurate statement.

There’s a price out there that would get you to at least dump a good portion of it. It may be high enough to say that it likely won’t reach that point, but there’s a price out there that would get you and your wife to dump at least part if not most of your stockpile.

Not necessarily. For some people the value in their hoard, to them, is knowing that they have enough of the item to meet their needs at any given moment in the future.

The chances of needing 750 or 1500 in one go is low enough that there is a price that would get them to sell off half or a good majority of their stockpile. It may be a price that will very likely never happen in the game, but there is a price.

Right now, I can buy all the mystic coins I want to make anything I want. All I have to do is be willing to pay the current price. That demonstrates that the market is fine — people can buy and people can sell and we do.

I know some people like to trot out the argument that if everyone in the game wanted even 3 legendaries, the regenerating supply would dry up. But it’s moot, because nothing close to “everyone” wants even one legendary, at least, not at the prices and effort they currently required. If everyone in California, USA wanted a new Jaguar, there wouldn’t be enough vehicles to purchase, but … not that many people want one, so it’s moot.

This all comes down to price: we got used to dirt-cheap mystic coins and now somehow we think 1g coins are ‘wrong’ — it’s not, wrong, it’s just expensive. High prices alone aren’t enough to establish a fundamental issue.

If you want price relief, just ask for it. Using economics to justify the request weakens the argument rather than strengthens it.

Seera.5916:

Ashen.2907:

Seera.5916:

Ubi.4136:

The problem is that Anet “assumes” that all of the hoarded items will be dumped at a stabilizing price and that will fix the cost of things. That simply isn’t true.

The assumption that everyone is holding what they are waiting for the “right price” is a mistake. I can hold up to 750 of each items in my vault (it’s all the upgrading I wanted and what I felt comfortable with). When I go over 750 I sell them on the TP or give them to my wife so she can get to her vault max (hers is 1500 cause that is what she likes to have/“hoard”).

There isn’t going to be a price on the TP that all these items get to that I feel I “have” to get rid of them. I want to have 750 of every item at all times for personal use/crafting/just in case. For my wife that is 1500. Every person I play with does the same, has a set number of items they hold on to for crafting, etc.

So, with regards to supply, the amount we are holding on to for eternity isn’t going to be dumped in to the market when it reaches the “magic” price. Just like from the demand side, we are not part of the equation because we are being self-sufficient.

Anet saying the available “supply” in game is there and that the TP will fix itself just isn’t an accurate statement.

There’s a price out there that would get you to at least dump a good portion of it. It may be high enough to say that it likely won’t reach that point, but there’s a price out there that would get you and your wife to dump at least part if not most of your stockpile.

Not necessarily. For some people the value in their hoard, to them, is knowing that they have enough of the item to meet their needs at any given moment in the future.

The chances of needing 750 or 1500 in one go is low enough that there is a price that would get them to sell off half or a good majority of their stockpile. It may be a price that will very likely never happen in the game, but there is a price.

Hmm, I guess I am just disinclined to assume that I know someone else’s thoughts, biases, and preferences better than they do. I know that I am not an internet psychic.

If you know for a fact that they are willing to sell you should be sufficiently prescient to know the price, date, etc as well. Care to elaborate?

Theres very little benefit in an MMO in having lots of gold at any one time .
What can you buy with it that everyone else would also want to buy at the same time?
So theres no reason why everyone would want to sell their MCs all at the same time or all at the same price, regardless of what the price was.
People only sell things when they need gold rite now.
If anything, the game needs far more gold sinks to suck gold out of the economy, but most players wont want this.
Supply / demand economics always works if left alone.

Ashen.2907:

Seera.5916:

Ashen.2907:

Seera.5916:

Ubi.4136:

The problem is that Anet “assumes” that all of the hoarded items will be dumped at a stabilizing price and that will fix the cost of things. That simply isn’t true.

The assumption that everyone is holding what they are waiting for the “right price” is a mistake. I can hold up to 750 of each items in my vault (it’s all the upgrading I wanted and what I felt comfortable with). When I go over 750 I sell them on the TP or give them to my wife so she can get to her vault max (hers is 1500 cause that is what she likes to have/“hoard”).

There isn’t going to be a price on the TP that all these items get to that I feel I “have” to get rid of them. I want to have 750 of every item at all times for personal use/crafting/just in case. For my wife that is 1500. Every person I play with does the same, has a set number of items they hold on to for crafting, etc.

So, with regards to supply, the amount we are holding on to for eternity isn’t going to be dumped in to the market when it reaches the “magic” price. Just like from the demand side, we are not part of the equation because we are being self-sufficient.

Anet saying the available “supply” in game is there and that the TP will fix itself just isn’t an accurate statement.

There’s a price out there that would get you to at least dump a good portion of it. It may be high enough to say that it likely won’t reach that point, but there’s a price out there that would get you and your wife to dump at least part if not most of your stockpile.

Not necessarily. For some people the value in their hoard, to them, is knowing that they have enough of the item to meet their needs at any given moment in the future.

The chances of needing 750 or 1500 in one go is low enough that there is a price that would get them to sell off half or a good majority of their stockpile. It may be a price that will very likely never happen in the game, but there is a price.

Hmm, I guess I am just disinclined to assume that I know someone else’s thoughts, biases, and preferences better than they do. I know that I am not an internet psychic.

If you know for a fact that they are willing to sell you should be sufficiently prescient to know the price, date, etc as well. Care to elaborate?

If the price got high enough they would be willing to sell. It might be something like 100g per coin before they would be willing to part with 50%. It could be 1000g.

Everyone has a price at which they are willing to sell anything. It may be a ridiculous amount given the context and usage, but everyone has a price they’d sell anything at.

Until now I have not seen any evidence that more mystic coins are being destroyed than entering the market.

MMO economies arnt real, as you cant convert gold back into real life money.
Assume you had 100 gazillion GW2 gold .
What would you buy with it?
Theres only so many things that are buyable.

Seera.5916:

The problem is there are a lot more being generated than are being consumed. There are players hoarding them, whether for sale when it hits a certain price or future usage is unknown.

So? I have a lot of them in my bank. I still plan to use up every single one of them eventually (and i know i still do not have enough). they could be worth 100g per piece, and still i wouldn’t sell them, because i know that eventually i’d have to buy them back. Almost certainly at a huge loss.

Seera.5916:

ANet has to move slowly to reduce that hoarded supply before they can do anything noticeable to it.

They won’t reduce that hoarded supply. The only people that may have a real incentive to sell are those that aren’t invested in game enough to actually pay attention to the market.
(well, and market speculators, but they won’t start selling until the trend has already started to reverse)

Seera.5916:

I’m not saying that the coins are sitting at the true equilibrium price and that nothing should ever be done. But they also shouldn’t rush into things.

I don’t think “rushing into things” is what most of the players expect of them. Doing something however is. And yet, currently “doing nothing” seems to be their whole plan.

Obtena.7952

The real failure here is with players that invent their own indicators of what ‘good behaviour’ in the market is, deception intended or not. Then complain that the market isn’t doing what it should be because of those nonsense indicators. This thread is a great example.
Bottomline is this: Anet must feel that at this point, for whatever reason, they don’t need to babysit the market anymore, so they aren’t.
………………………………………………………..
There is no caveat … MC’s will adjust to the price they should be based on supply and demand.

Well, it seems that a lot of posters do not read the title of this debate. This is: ‘the market will fix itself’. What means “itself”? It means (in my opinion) – without any external intervention, by the normal flow of resources / no artificial barriers.

Now: “The real failure here is with players that invent their own indicators of what ‘good behaviour’ in the market is” - well, in my opinion this is one indicator of a free market, without external interventions. The players will try “their own indicators” – if the indicators are accurate they will be used by more players. If the indicators are false/bad, they will be abandoned. So, in my opinion, this is not a failure. Is a sign that the players took J.S seriously when he said ANet will not interfere with the market for a while. BTW – if ANet really wants to leave the market to freely evolve, that means the ANet indicators used until now are absolete. So, new indicators should be invented by the players.

“Anet must feel that at this point, for whatever reason, they don’t need to babysit the market anymore, so they aren’t.” - indeed, indeed, indeed. Agree, agree, agree ! Unfortunately, ANet do not agree. And instead of letting the baby to grow, they still interfere in the educational process. Controlling the amount of MC delivered on the game – no matter if MC are enough or not / the supply is greater or lower than the demand – is a contradiction with J.S statement that ANet will not interfere anymore with the market. With other words we can have here 2 possible situations:
1. The statement of J. S was a lie, an attempt to pull the wool over the players eyes, OR
2. The statement was a sincere one but someone else in the game staff decided that this control over MC should be maintained – and this is against what J.S said (and if what he said is not a lie, is against the health of the game economy)

And lastly:
“There is no caveat … MC’s will adjust to the price they should be based on supply and demand

Taking into account that the supply is strictly determined by ANet, that means the MC will adjust the price according to ANet will. This is a perfect example of a “free market, without any external intrusion”

Following this example of a “free market” we can say that the North Korean market is a free one, at least on the same level with the GW2 market.

Well, I guess we will see in December what JS meant with “the market will fix itself”. Remember what happened last year, with the rare collection of Winter’s Presence requiring 150 MC ? This is not what I call not interfering with the market. Let’s see what will be required this year.

Wanze.8410:

Until now I have not seen any evidence that more mystic coins are being destroyed than entering the market.

Surely you jest? Or are you privy to the same metric JS is?

BlaqueFyre.5678:

One yes you can Farm them you have a chance on Mystic Clover crafting to get either 5 or 50 respectively from 1 or 10 Mystic Coin it is RNG just like trying to farm hardened leather… is it efficient no but you can farm them.

Have you actually looked at any drop rate research to back your fallacy up? The “toilet” will consume, on average, more coins than it will produce with lucky rolls. That is not a farm, that is a sink.

Seera.5916:

If the price got high enough they would be willing to sell. It might be something like 100g per coin before they would be willing to part with 50%. It could be 1000g.

Everyone has a price at which they are willing to sell anything. It may be a ridiculous amount given the context and usage, but everyone has a price they’d sell anything at.

I don’t think that’s true for everyone and all items.

For example I wouldn’t ever sell my mini karka. When I added it to my wardrobe it was already one of the most expensive items in the game but I had absolutely no hesitation about making it impossible to sell because I knew I never would.

This might be hard to understand but the problem is selling it would “only” get me gold. Yes it would be a lot of gold, but still only gold. To me obtaining gold is not a goal in it’s own right, it’s a step in a process (or rather several processes). I get gold so that I can get things I want.

Selling one of the things I want in order to get gold is going in circles – it’s eradicating one goal I’ve already achieved in order to reach another. And in this case it would have absolutely no benefit because the only way I could get my mini karka back would be to spend an almost equal (potentially greater) amount of gold, so it’d be a net loss.

On top of that there are numerous other ways I can obtain gold without selling things I want so no matter what the price is there will never be any incentive at all for me to sell. The same is true for Ubi and Mystic Coins. And other people and other items.

But there is a limit to this. I only want one mini karka, if I got a 2nd one (let’s ignore the fact that I can’t) I’d sell it without hesitation whether it was worth 3,000g or the 17g mine originally cost me, or 1g or whatever because I don’t have a use for two. And the same is true for Ubi – he already said he sells or gives away any Mystic Coins he gets beyond the 750 he’s saving. So it’s not like people like us are a constant ‘drain’ on the supply, just like there’s a limit to how many we’ll sell there’s a limit to how many we’ll keep.

More importantly the point I feel like a lot of people are missing in this discussion is that we’re all different and make decisions in different ways. The fact that you would sell off all your Mystic Coins for the right price doesn’t mean everyone else would, and the fact that one other person will never sell all of them doesn’t mean everyone else will hold onto a stockpile either.

Likewise we’re never going to be in a position where every active player is trying to make 4 legendaries in one go, or all the other skins that need Mystic Coins, but we’re also never going to be in a position where no one wants those things.

Which is why processes like this are difficult to work out and cannot deal with absolutes. There is no ‘magic price’ that will make everyone with a stockpile of Coins sell them, that price will be different for everyone – ranging from people who would give them away or sell them to vendors to people who will wait until they’re worth 1,000g each or will never sell at all.

(At the risk of giving the market speculators nightmares I can guarantee there is at least 1 player in the game who sells all their Mystic Coins to a vendor because they don’t know what they’re for and finds the TP too confusing to use.)

So all we can hope for is ensuring that the supply meets the demand over the long term. If the supply of available coins keeps dropping and will eventually run out then there’s a problem for the economy. If demand drops to the point where Coins very rarely sell then there’s a problem for the economy.

As long as they keep being bought and sold and there’s no reason to expect that will cease in the future there is not a problem for the economy, no matter what the price is.

Theres currently 37800 MC for sale on the TP.
Doesnt sound like a shortage of coins to me.

Regarding MCs (and only MCs) my guess is the current supply does outweigh demand — in other words more MCs are entering the game than are leaving the game (note I said “game” rather than “market”).

If this is the case then there’s nothing left for ANet to “fix” regarding MCs, other than letting the market adjust without any further intervention — although I honestly don’t know what intervention they were doing previously in the market regarding MCs.

Maybe MCs are a case that’s not following the text book, so ANet is going to stop trying to force them in a logical direction.

mauried.5608:

Theres currently 37800 MC for sale on the TP.
Doesnt sound like a shortage of coins to me.

37800/150 = 252 people can craft a legendary weapon at one time if they don’t rely on the meager personal income. I dunno, how big is the player base of GW2 at the moment? and this is just for the legendary weapons. Then there’s guild halls, recipes, mystic weapons etcetc

BlaqueFyre.5678:

@OriOri

There more than just Mystic Forge Dailies and daily log in to get mystic Coins they are based on RNG like everything else in game that’s used in recipes, crafting Mystic Clovers can Net you 5 or 50 coins, as well as The Daily Fractal tier Chests provide an Avenue to obtain the coins. These are fine as is.

Yes other items require them but most are prestigious or have exponential value those feast recipes give unlimited food buffs for 5 minutes that is huge just to craft the recipe, it’s not like they are needed to make the actual food, and if you try to use the whole well all kinds of Guild hall upgrades require them then you should factor in that Guilds are normally more than 1 person and you can ask for the coins to be donated.

Anyone whose ever built a guild hall—I should know I’ve built three and a half, knows that when you build one its 1-3 guys(and/or girls) spending their own small fortunes, grinding to death and breaking their backs to build the hall and some intermittent donations from ‘the other guys’ in the guild, not that the other donations aren’t greatly appreciated and very much needed (VERY) but if you knew anything— guild halls are carried by their creators/builders. It’s not as simple as asking someone to donate a bunch of almost an 1g item that you need almost 1500 of to complete all the upgrades in the guild.

Fremtid.3528:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

@OriOri

There more than just Mystic Forge Dailies and daily log in to get mystic Coins they are based on RNG like everything else in game that’s used in recipes, crafting Mystic Clovers can Net you 5 or 50 coins, as well as The Daily Fractal tier Chests provide an Avenue to obtain the coins. These are fine as is.

Yes other items require them but most are prestigious or have exponential value those feast recipes give unlimited food buffs for 5 minutes that is huge just to craft the recipe, it’s not like they are needed to make the actual food, and if you try to use the whole well all kinds of Guild hall upgrades require them then you should factor in that Guilds are normally more than 1 person and you can ask for the coins to be donated.

Anyone whose ever built a guild hall—I should know I’ve built three and a half, knows that when you build one its 1-3 guys(and/or girls) spending their own small fortunes, grinding to death and breaking their backs to build the hall and some intermittent donations from ‘the other guys’ in the guild, not that the other donations aren’t greatly appreciated and very much needed (VERY) but if you knew anything— guild halls are carried by their creators/builders. It’s not as simple as asking someone to donate a bunch of almost an 1g item that you need almost 1500 of to complete all the upgrades in the guild.

I guess we have had different guild experiences most of the guilds I have been a part of have always had a majority of the active players donate to the guild halls since their inception, the Leaders and a few officers normally have a vested nature towards them yes, and you don’t have ask for a bunch just put out hey we are working on this upgrade these items are needed, can anyone help, normally it gets some help.

I was even in a guild where they gave up on the hall because the officers didn’t want to bear the brunt of the cost and nobody else did either.

When John Smith implied they were going to stop making market adjustments it was open licence to start hording these things for guaranteed profit. These things can only go up in price because they can not be reliably generated outside of a set number per account, per day logged on, while demand is being constantly added.

Yes there are alot of mystic coins entering the market, probably more than being used. This isn’t the only thing that matters. Its the velocity of that supply that is causing an issue. It is so very low because they are spread over the entire active gaming base because they are produced passively in such small mounts the are sitting on everyone’s account not entering the market supply. They won’t move so long as they can not be produced in excess.

There is really very little reason for anyone to sell these. Probably the primary reason a player needs gold is for luxury items. Mystic Coins are used in almost every luxury item, so they are likely not sold for this reason. No player can ever produce these in excess in a reliable way. ArenaNet seems to determined to keep the supply generation passive, they can only increase in value as they add more legendary items. It is to easy for people to deposit them and forget about them.

Just wait until legendary armor rolls around… Price is going to get crazy.

Mireles Lore.5942:

When John Smith implied they were going to stop making market adjustments it was open licence to start hording these things for guaranteed profit. These things can only go up in price because they can not be reliably generated outside of a set number per account, per day logged on, while demand is being constantly added.

There is no reason to sell them because nobody can ever produce an excess on their own. As long as you are not hurting for gold, its easy for everyone to deposit what little they get and forget about it.

Just wait until legendary armor rolls around… Price is going to get crazy.

You can say that again,once the legendary armor will be fully released, the MCs will pass 1 gold/each. And then we will see how “the market will fix itself”

Amaimon.7823:

mauried.5608:

Theres currently 37800 MC for sale on the TP.
Doesnt sound like a shortage of coins to me.

37800/150 = 252 people can craft a legendary weapon at one time if they don’t rely on the meager personal income. I dunno, how big is the player base of GW2 at the moment? and this is just for the legendary weapons. Then there’s guild halls, recipes, mystic weapons etcetc

You can’t judge supply based on just what’s on the TP. There are players holding a ton of coins. One of them even posted a screenshot of an entire inventory full of them awhile back.

Am I the only person to think that the market is not broken?

DoctorDing.5890:

Am I the only person to think that the market is not broken?

You are not the only one, no worries.

4 years and we still have a functioning economy. That’s way better than most MMO’s I’ve played. I have been given no reasons to doubt that ANet knows what it’s doing.

~EW

DoctorDing.5890:

Am I the only person to think that the market is not broken?

“The market” is such a broad term as to be useless. Overall, the trading post is doing an excellent job. The few sticking points happen to be T5/6 leather, mystic coins, and a few other odds and ends that are either vendor trash (sigils/runes and some crafting materials) or stupidly out of reach (ye olde precursor argument and some collection skins).

Leather and coins are getting the focus currently because of limited acquisition and widespread use.

Cristalyan.5728:

Well, it seems that a lot of posters do not read the title of this debate. This is: ‘the market will fix itself’. What means “itself”? It means (in my opinion) – without any external intervention, by the normal flow of resources / no artificial barriers.

Now: “The real failure here is with players that invent their own indicators of what ‘good behaviour’ in the market is” - well, in my opinion this is one indicator of a free market, without external interventions. The players will try “their own indicators” – if the indicators are accurate they will be used by more players. If the indicators are false/bad, they will be abandoned. So, in my opinion, this is not a failure. Is a sign that the players took J.S seriously when he said ANet will not interfere with the market for a while. BTW – if ANet really wants to leave the market to freely evolve, that means the ANet indicators used until now are absolete. So, new indicators should be invented by the players.

“Anet must feel that at this point, for whatever reason, they don’t need to babysit the market anymore, so they aren’t.” - indeed, indeed, indeed. Agree, agree, agree ! Unfortunately, ANet do not agree. And instead of letting the baby to grow, they still interfere in the educational process. Controlling the amount of MC delivered on the game – no matter if MC are enough or not / the supply is greater or lower than the demand – is a contradiction with J.S statement that ANet will not interfere anymore with the market. With other words we can have here 2 possible situations:
1. The statement of J. S was a lie, an attempt to pull the wool over the players eyes, OR
2. The statement was a sincere one but someone else in the game staff decided that this control over MC should be maintained – and this is against what J.S said (and if what he said is not a lie, is against the health of the game economy)

And lastly:
“There is no caveat … MC’s will adjust to the price they should be based on supply and demand

Taking into account that the supply is strictly determined by ANet, that means the MC will adjust the price according to ANet will. This is a perfect example of a “free market, without any external intrusion”

Following this example of a “free market” we can say that the North Korean market is a free one, at least on the same level with the GW2 market.

First the supply was always at the whim of ANet, you never could just go out and farm for MC. The only agency the player had was deciding to do the daily and monthly or not which used up play time. Now the bar is significantly lower as only logging in is required. They only options now is doing the Mystic Forge daily if it’s available and introduced recently the anomaly event but that spawns only once every two hours and is dependent on when you are playing and for how long and if you are free when it does spawn.

I think the issue is a macro versus micro point of view. Now I’m going out on a limb here and suggest that game wide the amount of MC being injected into the game is roughly the amount being consumed by the MF before the change in acquisition method. And from a game wide, 10,000 meter perspective all is well. However from the player’s perspective the amount of MC they are getting is significantly less for the time they play the game. To them it feels like a shortage as if they did every daily and monthly before they got a bit over 600 a year. Now it’s only 260 (plus the optional ones). If someone only played on the weekend but was able to do the monthly before, they were still able to earn 340ish a year, now it’s around 70.

From the average player perspective it went from a nuisance amount where you would sell off excess without a 2nd thought to not even thinking about selling it. Where before selling excess to clean up your personal inventory space wasn’t an issue if the price was stable, it will only cost you around the same amount to get back what you sold, remember there was a glut on the TP which kept the price very low. But a 30-40x increase in TP price in less than two years, nobody will sell any if they think there’s even a chance they may need some in the future. And that positive feedback loop will just exacerbate the situation.

The problem now is that there isn’t a “good” way to let air out of this bubble without bursting it. ANet’s solution is not to be the one with the pin but let the bubble pop on it’s own. Problem is the bubble bursting isn’t going to fix the problem but simply reset the price and the cycle will start all over again.

Bellatrixa.3546:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

I see you don’t grasp the concept of supply and demand……

Not at all. It’s more pointing out that recipes like that are in no way prestigious and still require Mystic Coins. Those trays of pies come in quite handy on a weekly basis for my guild during guild rushes. It tickles me that single recipe is more expensive than more useful recipes for feasts. If I had the Mystic Coins to spare, I’d be more than happy to stick up a recipe myself for half the price and see how long it takes to sell. Sadly I need them for Mystic weapons and the like. Again, the coins used in creating those recipes could and imo should be substituted for something else.

That’s a perfect example of wasting Mystic Coins. The market already provides a solution to the problem: buy the trays instead of the recipe.

Your desire to be self sufficient in this application is misguided.

And this is exactly the kind of thing that ANet should be doing for the economy: in this application, Mystic coins keep the market for those trays from getting saturated with producers. The limited resources makes players make decisions about what trade items it’s really worth being able to produce. It increases specialization.

A market where everyone produces all the same goods is a boring and stagnant market. This is good economic design; it’s just that some players put completionism over having a diverse market structure.

I honestly wish they used this mechanism in a lot more tradeskills. If a gated (but tradeable) resource like Mystic coins were required for all the higher end recipes, crafters would have a chance to find a niche and turn a decent profit on their goods, instead of nearly everything being a commodity.

Amaimon.7823:

mauried.5608:

Theres currently 37800 MC for sale on the TP.
Doesnt sound like a shortage of coins to me.

37800/150 = 252 people can craft a legendary weapon at one time if they don’t rely on the meager personal income. I dunno, how big is the player base of GW2 at the moment? and this is just for the legendary weapons. Then there’s guild halls, recipes, mystic weapons etcetc

Let’s say that 252 people suddenly decided that today they had to create a legendary and they had no Mystic Coins to their name and they already had their gift of battle and no intention of completing any PvP/WvW reward tracks. Let’s say all those things and ‘poof’ no more mystic coins on the TP.

Well, no. As soon as 38k coins vanished, the price would go up. A lot. I’d certainly be listing a lot of my stash — I have been saving them for an undetermined special occasion and e.g. 10g-mystic coins would be mighty special to me.

Lots of people hoard mystic coins (among other items) because they can afford to, not because they have definitive plans to use them in the future, not because they need them.

Amaimon.7823:

mauried.5608:

Theres currently 37800 MC for sale on the TP.
Doesnt sound like a shortage of coins to me.

37800/150 = 252 people can craft a legendary weapon at one time if they don’t rely on the meager personal income. I dunno, how big is the player base of GW2 at the moment? and this is just for the legendary weapons. Then there’s guild halls, recipes, mystic weapons etcetc

You can’t look at a snapshot of supply at one instance of time and say that’s all there is to buy. If you check the gw2bltc you can get a better picture of hundreds of MC being sold every few minutes with that site showing almost 6k sold in the last 24 hours without supply being depleted.

https://www.gw2bltc.com/en/item/19976-Mystic-Coin

Bruno.3812:

Amaimon.7823:

mauried.5608:

Theres currently 37800 MC for sale on the TP.
Doesnt sound like a shortage of coins to me.

37800/150 = 252 people can craft a legendary weapon at one time if they don’t rely on the meager personal income. I dunno, how big is the player base of GW2 at the moment? and this is just for the legendary weapons. Then there’s guild halls, recipes, mystic weapons etcetc

You can’t look at a snapshot of supply at one instance of time and say that’s all there is to buy. If you check the gw2bltc you can get a better picture of hundreds of MC being sold every few minutes with that site showing almost 6k sold in the last 24 hours without supply being depleted.

https://www.gw2bltc.com/en/item/19976-Mystic-Coin

There are similar flaws in the other side of that example too. 252 people deciding to make a legendary within 24 hours of each other isn’t impossible given the number of people in the game (although I suspect, based on anecdotal evidence, that it would be unusual).

But they’re not all going to buy all the Mystic Coins they need on the very first day. Some of them won’t even know they need Mystic Coins, most will have at least some coins in their bank already. Some will choose to obtain them purely though login rewards (either because they’re too expensive or because they want to do it all themselves), some won’t be able to afford them all right away and so on.

And while those people, and others who decided to make legendaries before and after them, are working their way through the process more Mystic Coins are entering the game every day.

I decided to make a legendary back in April. At the time I think I had 50 Mystic Coins, no where near enough. I now have 75 Clovers (meaning I need just 2 more and, on average, 6 Mystic Coins, and I haven’t bought a single one. I won’t buy the last 6 either. While I was doing all the other stuff I kept getting Mystic Coins from login rewards. At this point I can safely say I’ll get all the Clovers well before I have all the Ecto and T6 materials, so it’s not even the Mystic Coins that are holding me up. In fact I may sell any extras I get to buy materials.

I don’t get it… the graph you showed has MC’s having a very stable supply and demand over a full year of time. The price has not reached equilibrium yet since people continue to hoard coins instead of sell them. This will stop when they reach correct market value and the number of people selling them equals the number of people buying them.

If the price is rising that means people have more money they wish to spend then they do coins. This seems to be functioning exactly like it is supposed to. With a nearly constant supply over a years time people clear have coins to sell so I don’t see the “problem”?

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I don’t get it… the graph you showed has MC’s having a very stable supply and demand over a full year of time. The price has not reached equilibrium yet since people continue to hoard coins instead of sell them. This will stop when they reach correct market value and the number of people selling them equals the number of people buying them.

If the price is rising that means people have more money they wish to spend then they do coins. This seems to be functioning exactly like it is supposed to. With a nearly constant supply over a years time people clear have coins to sell so I don’t see the “problem”?

Clearly there is/was a problem, otherwise ANet wouldn’t have announced a change in behavior.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I don’t get it… the graph you showed has MC’s having a very stable supply and demand over a full year of time. The price has not reached equilibrium yet since people continue to hoard coins instead of sell them. This will stop when they reach correct market value and the number of people selling them equals the number of people buying them.

If the price is rising that means people have more money they wish to spend then they do coins. This seems to be functioning exactly like it is supposed to. With a nearly constant supply over a years time people clear have coins to sell so I don’t see the “problem”?

In an open economy, supply and demand sets the price based on providers and users reaching equilibrium. As demand rises, more people become providers and new inventive ways to generate supply occurs. In the case of the game, Anet directly effects the supply (providers can’t come up with new ways to generate the goods – in this case, mystic coins) and the can effect the demand by releasing new items that require its use.

I’m not saying their system if flawed or broke, but the supply & demand is being effected by big brother Anets actions.