the ncsoft finacial report surprised me alot

the ncsoft finacial report surprised me alot

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Posted by: MikaHR.1978

MikaHR.1978

As long as a F2P MMO was once a subscription only game and now offers an optional subscription plan to get access to the same things as before the game went F2P, at the same cost, it counts as a subscription game. You may not like that definition but that’s the definition the industry is using.

The true purpose is to have the F2P be an unlimited trial of an MMO with enough barriers that if a player truly like the game, they would be inclined to pay the $15 a month, less in bulk, than be nickeled and dimed the entire time.

Since Turbine demonstrated that this works, just about every MMO that was once subscription in NA has gone this route. None to my knowledge has gone from subscription to pure F2P, it would simply alienate their original paying customers. That’s why people are counting the days until ESO and WildStar does the same. I think SWTOR has the record at 9 months.

You mean they do exactly like F2P games do.

The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.

Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.

Its pretty simple:

Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no → P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes → F2P

Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”

(edited by MikaHR.1978)

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Posted by: Middzz.1490

Middzz.1490

I do like financial analysis that ignores exchange rates because all experts know they have no meaning .

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Posted by: MikaHR.1978

MikaHR.1978

I do like financial analysis that ignores exchange rates because all experts know they have no meaning .

Thats too deep for this (and similar) forums since most people dont even grasp that if game sold 1000000 units @60$ revenue wasnt 60000000$ ;P , let alone profit

Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”

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Posted by: Corpus Christi.2057

Corpus Christi.2057

I do like financial analysis that ignores exchange rates because all experts know they have no meaning .

Thats too deep for this (and similar) forums since most people dont even grasp that if game sold 1000000 units @60$ revenue wasnt 60000000$ ;P , let alone profit

And some people, like you, report the others when they show you with evidence ( as posted by me and other user above ) that you are completely wrong, but won’t admit it.

Three 80-lvl Rangers. Why? ‘Cos they’re that cool.

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

You mean they do exactly like F2P games do.

The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.

Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.

Its pretty simple:

Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no -> P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes -> F2P

By that definition then GW2 is F2P.

Sorry you can’t ignore the freemium/hybrid MMO business model which is neither pure F2P or P2P but offers both to the player.

SWTOR
http://www.swtor.com/free/features

LOTRO
http://www.lotro.com/en/game/vip

RIFT
http://www.riftgame.com/en/store/#patron

TERA
https://store.enmasse.com/tera/elite-status

Here are some more:

Champions Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/3028173

Star Trek Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/3026713

Dungeons & Dragons Online
http://www.ddo.com/en/become-vip

EverQuest, EverQuest II, DCUO, Planetside 2
https://www.everquest.com/membership

All of these plans give the player the same access they had to the game’s features before the game went from P2P to freemium/hybrid. It’s different from say Nexon’s F2P MMOs where nobody was ever a subscribing player and everyone started with the same access.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

(edited by Behellagh.1468)

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

From a financial perspective, ArenaNet really do need to add better and more varied items to their cash shop. While some players against buying gems may object to this, it’s for the game’s health.

I suspect a large part of why GW2’s profits are so low is the inclusion of the gold > gem trading, which means anyone with enough gold can simply trade gold for gems, and it seems a large number of 80’s who have been around for a long time have several thousand gold on hand, enough to buy tens of thousands of gems (10g ~ 100 gems), which is a huge net loss in potential profits.

If anything should be done at all, I think the gold > gem exchange should be closed, to better the health of the game (selfish desires to get cash shop items for free aside), or modified to allow only people who have gems to barter with to put up their gems for sale to people wishing to buy (Similar to how Perfect World do it)

contrary to conventional wisdom, the items that are bought with gold in the gem store still generate revenue indirectly.
Basically the desire for those gem store items, and the gold people trade to get it, is the product that is sold to those who buy gems to sell for gold.
If the exchange system is working properly, then every item bought with gold generates more money than items bought with gems, through the use of the gem exchange.
However the cost of running those transactions etc probably makes it either very close or the same earnings per transaction.

Short version, people who buy items from gemstore(gold/cash) contribute to the games earning. The people who dont contribute, are the ones who dont really participate in the gem store at all one way or the other.

this makes it seem like one of the best ways to increase earning would be to create gem store items that appeal to users who dont currently participate in the current gem store, while also maintaining the old ones.

However, at the end of the day increasing earnings does not necessarilly increase reinvestment. As far as i can see, anet is wholly owned, and cannot choose what to do with earnings on their own. Lineage gives an example of a game that makes a lot of money with minimal reinvestment, sooo yeah, earnings is interesting, but its just earnings.

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Posted by: Devata.6589

Devata.6589

You mean they do exactly like F2P games do.

The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.

Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.

Its pretty simple:

Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no -> P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes -> F2P

By that definition then GW2 is F2P.

Sorry you can’t ignore the freemium/hybrid MMO business model which is neither pure F2P or P2P but offers both to the player.

SWTOR
http://www.swtor.com/free/features

LOTRO
http://www.lotro.com/en/game/vip

RIFT
http://www.riftgame.com/en/store/#patron

TERA
https://store.enmasse.com/tera/elite-status

Here are some more:

Champions Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/3028173

Star Trek Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/3026713

Dungeons & Dragons Online
http://www.ddo.com/en/become-vip

EverQuest, EverQuest II, DCUO, Planetside 2
https://www.everquest.com/membership

All of these plans give the player the same access they had to the game’s features before the game went from P2P to freemium/hybrid. It’s different from say Nexon’s F2P MMOs where nobody was ever a subscribing player and everyone started with the same access.

Well a payment model says something about how a company makes it’s money. Of course there are multiple ways but where do they focus on?

Lets take WoW. It has a cash-shop (but very limited), it has a expansions but only once every 2 years so where does their main income come from? The sub. So we name is a sub-based model (P2P).

All those F2P games seem to be focusing on cash-shop sales. Those who used to be subs did not go F2P for nothing, They did because there sub-focus did not bring in enough money. So do you focus on the cash-shop it’s F2P (while the name is not great, that just evolved that way. Cash-shop model would be a better name). In many of the F2P games with optional sub they focus on the cash-shop and have the sub as a way out of the limitations.

Lastly there is B2P that focuses on the game sales. Mostly used model in the non-mmo marked but can also be used in the MMO market when releasing regular expansions and it focuses on that to generate it’s income. Thats what GW1 was.

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

You mean they do exactly like F2P games do.

The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.

Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.

Its pretty simple:

Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no -> P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes -> F2P

By that definition then GW2 is F2P.

Sorry you can’t ignore the freemium/hybrid MMO business model which is neither pure F2P or P2P but offers both to the player.

SWTOR
http://www.swtor.com/free/features

LOTRO
http://www.lotro.com/en/game/vip

RIFT
http://www.riftgame.com/en/store/#patron

TERA
https://store.enmasse.com/tera/elite-status

Here are some more:

Champions Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/3028173

Star Trek Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/3026713

Dungeons & Dragons Online
http://www.ddo.com/en/become-vip

EverQuest, EverQuest II, DCUO, Planetside 2
https://www.everquest.com/membership

All of these plans give the player the same access they had to the game’s features before the game went from P2P to freemium/hybrid. It’s different from say Nexon’s F2P MMOs where nobody was ever a subscribing player and everyone started with the same access.

Well a payment model says something about how a company makes it’s money. Of course there are multiple ways but where do they focus on?

Lets take WoW. It has a cash-shop (but very limited), it has a expansions but only once every 2 years so where does their main income come from? The sub. So we name is a sub-based model (P2P).

All those F2P games seem to be focusing on cash-shop sales. Those who used to be subs did not go F2P for nothing, They did because there sub-focus did not bring in enough money. So do you focus on the cash-shop it’s F2P (while the name is not great, that just evolved that way. Cash-shop model would be a better name). In many of the F2P games with optional sub they focus on the cash-shop and have the sub as a way out of the limitations.

Lastly there is B2P that focuses on the game sales. Mostly used model in the non-mmo marked but can also be used in the MMO market when releasing regular expansions and it focuses on that to generate it’s income. Thats what GW1 was.

Many of those are hybrids, and make their money in two ways.
Also many of the hybrids are actually more designed to encourage subscriptions.

Basically its not easy to define some of these games overall model, because it is varied.

But you are right, the overall revenue system will define the game growth and development.
While gw2 started off as a b2p game, it essentially is shifting to a f2p model. Less and less sales will occur as they penetrate the market, and a higher % of its earnings will come from the cash shop.
This means it will continue to develop as a cash shop game until they start selling b2p type content.

i will say this, as far as cash shop games go, the b2p aspect defiantely allowed it to be one of the most value for your buck types. The biggest negative effect of the cash shop is not so much its existence, so much as how the game seems to be growing/not growing.

(edited by phys.7689)

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Posted by: chemiclord.3978

chemiclord.3978

The reason you go F2P from a P2P is the hope that you can increase the player base. High player counts are an MMOs lifeblood, because that is where the money lies. You do whatever it takes to increase that player base, whether that means changing the revenue scheme, release an expansion, or (in GW2’s case) try to lure them in with frequent (if small) updates.

For Arena.net, it really isn’t a matter of could they do BETTER with a traditional expansion model like they had in GW1. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn’t. But that’s not a question they’ll ask themselves until the CURRENT model isn’t meeting expectations.

Meanwhile, the only thing I’ve learned from this thread is that there are some people who REALLY want GW2 to fail, and will cling to whatever they can to convince themselves it’s fading fast.

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Posted by: Azure The Heartless.3261

Azure The Heartless.3261

Guild wars 2 is not a P2P or F2P model.

It is a B2P model. you buy the game, and then all kinds of progression and all essential content is free.

Cash shop items are vanity and do not give combat advantage of any kind, and on top of that can be bought with in game money.

Not to mention that the cash shop does not boast a large range of items apart from BLC skins, which are again nonessential for gameplay.

For a game that repeatedly has sales on its copy price, does not bother players with the cash shop unless they want specific aesthetics, and does not charge a subscription fee, the playerbase is solid, as is the revenue.

Players should keep in mind that Anet apparently has been very careful in keeping cash items non-advantageous as well as accessible, and is still showing stable sales (that are obviously lower than a Sub based game, the only required fee is the initial one), despite small content releases and the recent china release/ tournaments, so on.

Just my thoughts, from an objective standpoint.

Resident Disgruntled, Coffee-drinking Charr.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.

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Posted by: MikaHR.1978

MikaHR.1978

You mean they do exactly like F2P games do.

The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.

Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.

Its pretty simple:

Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no -> P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes -> F2P

By that definition then GW2 is F2P.

Sorry you can’t ignore the freemium/hybrid MMO business model which is neither pure F2P or P2P but offers both to the player.

SWTOR
http://www.swtor.com/free/features

LOTRO
http://www.lotro.com/en/game/vip

RIFT
http://www.riftgame.com/en/store/#patron

TERA
https://store.enmasse.com/tera/elite-status

Here are some more:

Champions Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/3028173

Star Trek Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/3026713

Dungeons & Dragons Online
http://www.ddo.com/en/become-vip

EverQuest, EverQuest II, DCUO, Planetside 2
https://www.everquest.com/membership

All of these plans give the player the same access they had to the game’s features before the game went from P2P to freemium/hybrid. It’s different from say Nexon’s F2P MMOs where nobody was ever a subscribing player and everyone started with the same access.

Sure, and those are all F2P games that have many ways to spend money, just like all other F2P games (sub is pretty much bundled cash shop items with maybe some “special” perks)

Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”

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Posted by: Azure The Heartless.3261

Azure The Heartless.3261

You mean they do exactly like F2P games do.

The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.

Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.

Its pretty simple:

Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no -> P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes -> F2P

By that definition then GW2 is F2P.

Sorry you can’t ignore the freemium/hybrid MMO business model which is neither pure F2P or P2P but offers both to the player.

SWTOR
http://www.swtor.com/free/features

LOTRO
http://www.lotro.com/en/game/vip

RIFT
http://www.riftgame.com/en/store/#patron

TERA
https://store.enmasse.com/tera/elite-status

Here are some more:

Champions Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/3028173

Star Trek Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/3026713

Dungeons & Dragons Online
http://www.ddo.com/en/become-vip

EverQuest, EverQuest II, DCUO, Planetside 2
https://www.everquest.com/membership

All of these plans give the player the same access they had to the game’s features before the game went from P2P to freemium/hybrid. It’s different from say Nexon’s F2P MMOs where nobody was ever a subscribing player and everyone started with the same access.

Sure, and those are all F2P games that have many ways to spend money, just like all other F2P games (sub is pretty much bundled cash shop items with maybe some “special” perks)

I dont understand why people are trying to cram “sub” into the definition of “free”.

Cash shop items are optional.

Sub game fees are not.

What you get for your money is irrelevant. The question to be addressed is “does the game force you to pay to receive key features or not?”

Resident Disgruntled, Coffee-drinking Charr.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

You mean they do exactly like F2P games do.

The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.

Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.

Its pretty simple:

Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no -> P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes -> F2P

By that definition then GW2 is F2P.

Sorry you can’t ignore the freemium/hybrid MMO business model which is neither pure F2P or P2P but offers both to the player.

SWTOR
http://www.swtor.com/free/features

LOTRO
http://www.lotro.com/en/game/vip

RIFT
http://www.riftgame.com/en/store/#patron

TERA
https://store.enmasse.com/tera/elite-status

Here are some more:

Champions Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/3028173

Star Trek Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/3026713

Dungeons & Dragons Online
http://www.ddo.com/en/become-vip

EverQuest, EverQuest II, DCUO, Planetside 2
https://www.everquest.com/membership

All of these plans give the player the same access they had to the game’s features before the game went from P2P to freemium/hybrid. It’s different from say Nexon’s F2P MMOs where nobody was ever a subscribing player and everyone started with the same access.

Sure, and those are all F2P games that have many ways to spend money, just like all other F2P games (sub is pretty much bundled cash shop items with maybe some “special” perks)

I dont understand why people are trying to cram “sub” into the definition of “free”.

Cash shop items are optional.

Sub game fees are not.

What you get for your money is irrelevant. The question to be addressed is “does the game force you to pay to receive key features or not?”

the problem with your definition is that “key features” is vague, and different people will interpret it differently

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Posted by: MikaHR.1978

MikaHR.1978

You mean they do exactly like F2P games do.

The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.

Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.

Its pretty simple:

Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no -> P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes -> F2P

By that definition then GW2 is F2P.

Sorry you can’t ignore the freemium/hybrid MMO business model which is neither pure F2P or P2P but offers both to the player.

SWTOR
http://www.swtor.com/free/features

LOTRO
http://www.lotro.com/en/game/vip

RIFT
http://www.riftgame.com/en/store/#patron

TERA
https://store.enmasse.com/tera/elite-status

Here are some more:

Champions Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/3028173

Star Trek Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/3026713

Dungeons & Dragons Online
http://www.ddo.com/en/become-vip

EverQuest, EverQuest II, DCUO, Planetside 2
https://www.everquest.com/membership

All of these plans give the player the same access they had to the game’s features before the game went from P2P to freemium/hybrid. It’s different from say Nexon’s F2P MMOs where nobody was ever a subscribing player and everyone started with the same access.

Sure, and those are all F2P games that have many ways to spend money, just like all other F2P games (sub is pretty much bundled cash shop items with maybe some “special” perks)

I dont understand why people are trying to cram “sub” into the definition of “free”.

Cash shop items are optional.

Sub game fees are not.

What you get for your money is irrelevant. The question to be addressed is “does the game force you to pay to receive key features or not?”

Pretty much, it is very simple. “Sub” is a familaiar term so they left it in, theres also bunch of people that freak out on F2P mention so they feel a bit more comfortable if they see word “sub”.

It could easily be called “item/feature bundle”.

Its just a fact that people who put that list up are very sloppy about it.

It is hilarious, list of “top 10 sub games” where only 2/10 games are actually sub based. But then that site has been pretty much brushed aside, its just another “random internet analyst” trying to guess numbers, as theres not enough of them.

Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”

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Posted by: MikaHR.1978

MikaHR.1978

You mean they do exactly like F2P games do.

The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.

Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.

Its pretty simple:

Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no -> P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes -> F2P

By that definition then GW2 is F2P.

Sorry you can’t ignore the freemium/hybrid MMO business model which is neither pure F2P or P2P but offers both to the player.

SWTOR
http://www.swtor.com/free/features

LOTRO
http://www.lotro.com/en/game/vip

RIFT
http://www.riftgame.com/en/store/#patron

TERA
https://store.enmasse.com/tera/elite-status

Here are some more:

Champions Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/3028173

Star Trek Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/3026713

Dungeons & Dragons Online
http://www.ddo.com/en/become-vip

EverQuest, EverQuest II, DCUO, Planetside 2
https://www.everquest.com/membership

All of these plans give the player the same access they had to the game’s features before the game went from P2P to freemium/hybrid. It’s different from say Nexon’s F2P MMOs where nobody was ever a subscribing player and everyone started with the same access.

Sure, and those are all F2P games that have many ways to spend money, just like all other F2P games (sub is pretty much bundled cash shop items with maybe some “special” perks)

I dont understand why people are trying to cram “sub” into the definition of “free”.

Cash shop items are optional.

Sub game fees are not.

What you get for your money is irrelevant. The question to be addressed is “does the game force you to pay to receive key features or not?”

the problem with your definition is that “key features” is vague, and different people will interpret it differently

Ability to access and play the game is not vague at all.

Tell you what, try to play WoW or EvE without paying a sub, then try to play all those other games and then return to report which ones are sub based and which ones are F2P.

Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

You mean they do exactly like F2P games do.

The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.

Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.

Its pretty simple:

Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no -> P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes -> F2P

By that definition then GW2 is F2P.

Sorry you can’t ignore the freemium/hybrid MMO business model which is neither pure F2P or P2P but offers both to the player.

SWTOR
http://www.swtor.com/free/features

LOTRO
http://www.lotro.com/en/game/vip

RIFT
http://www.riftgame.com/en/store/#patron

TERA
https://store.enmasse.com/tera/elite-status

Here are some more:

Champions Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/3028173

Star Trek Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/3026713

Dungeons & Dragons Online
http://www.ddo.com/en/become-vip

EverQuest, EverQuest II, DCUO, Planetside 2
https://www.everquest.com/membership

All of these plans give the player the same access they had to the game’s features before the game went from P2P to freemium/hybrid. It’s different from say Nexon’s F2P MMOs where nobody was ever a subscribing player and everyone started with the same access.

Sure, and those are all F2P games that have many ways to spend money, just like all other F2P games (sub is pretty much bundled cash shop items with maybe some “special” perks)

subscription doesnt mean you only get access to the game if you pay, it means you recieve a limited service for as long as you pay a fee. When you stop paying that fee, you lose the service.

for example champions online, with a sub you get access to a special type of charachter(think of a customizable proffession that can use skills from any jobs), all bank slots, hideouts, access to all special missions, but only WHILE you pay for the subscription. Once you stop playing you only have access to things free players have. You cant access your special charachters, or areas you once had access to, without buying them specifically.

essentially the subscription is not like buying a bundle of cash shop items, it is subscribing to a higher teir of service. Once your subscription runs out you no longer have access to anything from that higher teir.

they are very much a hybrid model, and are a bit different in goal, and monetization strategy than f2p or subscription by itself.

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

You mean they do exactly like F2P games do.

The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.

Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.

Its pretty simple:

Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no -> P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes -> F2P

By that definition then GW2 is F2P.

Sorry you can’t ignore the freemium/hybrid MMO business model which is neither pure F2P or P2P but offers both to the player.

SWTOR
http://www.swtor.com/free/features

LOTRO
http://www.lotro.com/en/game/vip

RIFT
http://www.riftgame.com/en/store/#patron

TERA
https://store.enmasse.com/tera/elite-status

Here are some more:

Champions Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/3028173

Star Trek Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/3026713

Dungeons & Dragons Online
http://www.ddo.com/en/become-vip

EverQuest, EverQuest II, DCUO, Planetside 2
https://www.everquest.com/membership

All of these plans give the player the same access they had to the game’s features before the game went from P2P to freemium/hybrid. It’s different from say Nexon’s F2P MMOs where nobody was ever a subscribing player and everyone started with the same access.

Sure, and those are all F2P games that have many ways to spend money, just like all other F2P games (sub is pretty much bundled cash shop items with maybe some “special” perks)

I dont understand why people are trying to cram “sub” into the definition of “free”.

Cash shop items are optional.

Sub game fees are not.

What you get for your money is irrelevant. The question to be addressed is “does the game force you to pay to receive key features or not?”

the problem with your definition is that “key features” is vague, and different people will interpret it differently

Ability to access and play the game is not vague at all.

Tell you what, try to play WoW or EvE without paying a sub, then try to play all those other games and then return to report which ones are sub based and which ones are F2P.

by your definition a great many the subscription type services in the world(not just games) are free because there exists a way to access those services in a limited amount/fashion without paying a subscription.

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Posted by: MikaHR.1978

MikaHR.1978

You mean they do exactly like F2P games do.

The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.

Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.

Its pretty simple:

Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no -> P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes -> F2P

By that definition then GW2 is F2P.

Sorry you can’t ignore the freemium/hybrid MMO business model which is neither pure F2P or P2P but offers both to the player.

SWTOR
http://www.swtor.com/free/features

LOTRO
http://www.lotro.com/en/game/vip

RIFT
http://www.riftgame.com/en/store/#patron

TERA
https://store.enmasse.com/tera/elite-status

Here are some more:

Champions Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/3028173

Star Trek Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/3026713

Dungeons & Dragons Online
http://www.ddo.com/en/become-vip

EverQuest, EverQuest II, DCUO, Planetside 2
https://www.everquest.com/membership

All of these plans give the player the same access they had to the game’s features before the game went from P2P to freemium/hybrid. It’s different from say Nexon’s F2P MMOs where nobody was ever a subscribing player and everyone started with the same access.

Sure, and those are all F2P games that have many ways to spend money, just like all other F2P games (sub is pretty much bundled cash shop items with maybe some “special” perks)

subscription doesnt mean you only get access to the game if you pay, it means you recieve a limited service for as long as you pay a fee. When you stop paying that fee, you lose the service.

for example champions online, with a sub you get access to a special type of charachter(think of a customizable proffession that can use skills from any jobs), all bank slots, hideouts, access to all special missions, but only WHILE you pay for the subscription. Once you stop playing you only have access to things free players have. You cant access your special charachters, or areas you once had access to, without buying them specifically.

essentially the subscription is not like buying a bundle of cash shop items, it is subscribing to a higher teir of service. Once your subscription runs out you no longer have access to anything from that higher teir.

they are very much a hybrid model, and are a bit different in goal, and monetization strategy than f2p or subscription by itself.

Look at the bolded part.

Actually they copied F2P games very good. If you actually played any F2P game you would know that many (if not all) have 30 days “bundle” with various “perks” that costs 10-15$.

“Sub” is just leftover term because of familiarity.

Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”

(edited by MikaHR.1978)

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Posted by: MikaHR.1978

MikaHR.1978

You mean they do exactly like F2P games do.

The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.

Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.

Its pretty simple:

Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no -> P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes -> F2P

By that definition then GW2 is F2P.

Sorry you can’t ignore the freemium/hybrid MMO business model which is neither pure F2P or P2P but offers both to the player.

SWTOR
http://www.swtor.com/free/features

LOTRO
http://www.lotro.com/en/game/vip

RIFT
http://www.riftgame.com/en/store/#patron

TERA
https://store.enmasse.com/tera/elite-status

Here are some more:

Champions Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/3028173

Star Trek Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/3026713

Dungeons & Dragons Online
http://www.ddo.com/en/become-vip

EverQuest, EverQuest II, DCUO, Planetside 2
https://www.everquest.com/membership

All of these plans give the player the same access they had to the game’s features before the game went from P2P to freemium/hybrid. It’s different from say Nexon’s F2P MMOs where nobody was ever a subscribing player and everyone started with the same access.

Sure, and those are all F2P games that have many ways to spend money, just like all other F2P games (sub is pretty much bundled cash shop items with maybe some “special” perks)

I dont understand why people are trying to cram “sub” into the definition of “free”.

Cash shop items are optional.

Sub game fees are not.

What you get for your money is irrelevant. The question to be addressed is “does the game force you to pay to receive key features or not?”

the problem with your definition is that “key features” is vague, and different people will interpret it differently

Ability to access and play the game is not vague at all.

Tell you what, try to play WoW or EvE without paying a sub, then try to play all those other games and then return to report which ones are sub based and which ones are F2P.

by your definition a great many the subscription type services in the world(not just games) are free because there exists a way to access those services in a limited amount/fashion without paying a subscription.

Same as you can play WoW for free to lvl 20 or have 2 weeks free trial in EvE.

Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”

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Posted by: Azure The Heartless.3261

Azure The Heartless.3261

You mean they do exactly like F2P games do.

The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.

Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.

Its pretty simple:

Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no -> P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes -> F2P

By that definition then GW2 is F2P.

Sorry you can’t ignore the freemium/hybrid MMO business model which is neither pure F2P or P2P but offers both to the player.

SWTOR
http://www.swtor.com/free/features

LOTRO
http://www.lotro.com/en/game/vip

RIFT
http://www.riftgame.com/en/store/#patron

TERA
https://store.enmasse.com/tera/elite-status

Here are some more:

Champions Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/3028173

Star Trek Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/3026713

Dungeons & Dragons Online
http://www.ddo.com/en/become-vip

EverQuest, EverQuest II, DCUO, Planetside 2
https://www.everquest.com/membership

All of these plans give the player the same access they had to the game’s features before the game went from P2P to freemium/hybrid. It’s different from say Nexon’s F2P MMOs where nobody was ever a subscribing player and everyone started with the same access.

Sure, and those are all F2P games that have many ways to spend money, just like all other F2P games (sub is pretty much bundled cash shop items with maybe some “special” perks)

I dont understand why people are trying to cram “sub” into the definition of “free”.

Cash shop items are optional.

Sub game fees are not.

What you get for your money is irrelevant. The question to be addressed is “does the game force you to pay to receive key features or not?”

the problem with your definition is that “key features” is vague, and different people will interpret it differently

Ability to access and play the game is not vague at all.

Tell you what, try to play WoW or EvE without paying a sub, then try to play all those other games and then return to report which ones are sub based and which ones are F2P.

by your definition a great many the subscription type services in the world(not just games) are free because there exists a way to access those services in a limited amount/fashion without paying a subscription.

any game that makes you pay a recurring fee to enjoy the core game content, where not paying would either prohibit you from playing the game or progressing to the same endpoint as players that do pay is a sub based game.

A demo is not a full game. It is an extended advertisement.

I don’t understand why that is impossible to grasp, still. Its like people don’t want to admit that Gw2 has everything available for free, and is still stable with revenue compared to games that force people to pay to gain or retain the right to play the entire game.

Resident Disgruntled, Coffee-drinking Charr.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.

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Posted by: Devata.6589

Devata.6589

Guild wars 2 is not a P2P or F2P model.

It is a B2P model. you buy the game, and then all kinds of progression and all essential content is free.

Cash shop items are vanity and do not give combat advantage of any kind, and on top of that can be bought with in game money.

Not to mention that the cash shop does not boast a large range of items apart from BLC skins, which are again nonessential for gameplay.

For a game that repeatedly has sales on its copy price, does not bother players with the cash shop unless they want specific aesthetics, and does not charge a subscription fee, the playerbase is solid, as is the revenue.

Players should keep in mind that Anet apparently has been very careful in keeping cash items non-advantageous as well as accessible, and is still showing stable sales (that are obviously lower than a Sub based game, the only required fee is the initial one), despite small content releases and the recent china release/ tournaments, so on.

Just my thoughts, from an objective standpoint.

“Not to mention that the cash shop does not boast a large range of items apart from BLC skins, which are again nonessential for gameplay.”

It’s a game, nothing is essential. So thats not really an argument. At this moment GW2 is focusing on there cash-shop for generating income, not on game / expansion sales thats why it’s not a true B2P game but more of a cash-shop (F2P) game.

Following your explanation of a B2P game, WoW would be a B2P game as well.

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Posted by: Devata.6589

Devata.6589

The reason you go F2P from a P2P is the hope that you can increase the player base. High player counts are an MMOs lifeblood, because that is where the money lies. You do whatever it takes to increase that player base, whether that means changing the revenue scheme, release an expansion, or (in GW2’s case) try to lure them in with frequent (if small) updates.

For Arena.net, it really isn’t a matter of could they do BETTER with a traditional expansion model like they had in GW1. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn’t. But that’s not a question they’ll ask themselves until the CURRENT model isn’t meeting expectations.

Meanwhile, the only thing I’ve learned from this thread is that there are some people who REALLY want GW2 to fail, and will cling to whatever they can to convince themselves it’s fading fast.

Why would people want it to fail while being active on these forums?

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Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

Why would people want it to fail while being active on these forums?

Never, ever underestimate the drive of a former fan to ruin or see ruined what they once loved.

Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

You mean they do exactly like F2P games do.

The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.

Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.

Its pretty simple:

Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no -> P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes -> F2P

By that definition then GW2 is F2P.

Sorry you can’t ignore the freemium/hybrid MMO business model which is neither pure F2P or P2P but offers both to the player.

SWTOR
http://www.swtor.com/free/features

LOTRO
http://www.lotro.com/en/game/vip

RIFT
http://www.riftgame.com/en/store/#patron

TERA
https://store.enmasse.com/tera/elite-status

Here are some more:

Champions Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/3028173

Star Trek Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/3026713

Dungeons & Dragons Online
http://www.ddo.com/en/become-vip

EverQuest, EverQuest II, DCUO, Planetside 2
https://www.everquest.com/membership

All of these plans give the player the same access they had to the game’s features before the game went from P2P to freemium/hybrid. It’s different from say Nexon’s F2P MMOs where nobody was ever a subscribing player and everyone started with the same access.

Sure, and those are all F2P games that have many ways to spend money, just like all other F2P games (sub is pretty much bundled cash shop items with maybe some “special” perks)

I dont understand why people are trying to cram “sub” into the definition of “free”.

Cash shop items are optional.

Sub game fees are not.

What you get for your money is irrelevant. The question to be addressed is “does the game force you to pay to receive key features or not?”

the problem with your definition is that “key features” is vague, and different people will interpret it differently

Ability to access and play the game is not vague at all.

Tell you what, try to play WoW or EvE without paying a sub, then try to play all those other games and then return to report which ones are sub based and which ones are F2P.

by your definition a great many the subscription type services in the world(not just games) are free because there exists a way to access those services in a limited amount/fashion without paying a subscription.

any game that makes you pay a recurring fee to enjoy the core game content, where not paying would either prohibit you from playing the game or progressing to the same endpoint as players that do pay is a sub based game.

A demo is not a full game. It is an extended advertisement.

I don’t understand why that is impossible to grasp, still. Its like people don’t want to admit that Gw2 has everything available for free, and is still stable with revenue compared to games that force people to pay to gain or retain the right to play the entire game.

actually people are just trying to come up with consensus on what these terms mean, for example, by the definition you just gave, champions online and SWTOR are definately sub games, however to mika they are not.

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

Why would people want it to fail while being active on these forums?

Never, ever underestimate the drive of a former fan to ruin or see ruined what they once loved.

i think people who are still here want it to succeed, however they different ideas of how that can/will happen

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Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

Why would people want it to fail while being active on these forums?

Never, ever underestimate the drive of a former fan to ruin or see ruined what they once loved.

i think people who are still here want it to succeed, however they different ideas of how that can/will happen

I don’t need to think that – I know it to be true.

Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.

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Posted by: Glory.1493

Glory.1493

the first place when i post this thread i dont mean to dicuss something about the financial report itself.i personally think they r doing fine financial wise.cuz gw2 still has the 2nd largest player base among those major mmo(first 1 is wow for sure).and a company who make 100million per year should have cover their cost long b4 .they have no problem to make continous changes to gw2 while working on gw3 or something else which i m sure they r doing something on it.as for they r not allowed to talk whats gonna change to gw2 like a expansion or not.we d better focus on something that can be done quickly.that is the gemstore.how about seperate new hair style from that total make over kit?what about make some new armor that looks really cool?not some thing u come up with after ur cat and dog had a fight.how about fix the issue why every single armor set they sold on gemstore looks ugly on male character than female?how about change the facts every heavy legging armor we can get in game is such slim on male(works good on female) that makes feel i took an arrow in the knee when i was kid then my leg stop growing..thats the topic i wanted to dicuss in the first place and i would love to see ppl have another thoughts.

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Posted by: Simzani.4318

Simzani.4318

If Anet call simple fixes features, can’t we say that by their standard we already have few expansions ?

1 : southen cove
2 : healing skill
3 : edge of the mist
4 : dry top

According to their standard, we had 4 expansions. The work they are doing in background, where they have all of their 350 employes working on minus the 30 LS team dev and the lone dev that made the fix patch, is the next expansion. My bet is one utility skill shared class-wide for march 2015, wich will be required to defeat the dragon.

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Posted by: Glory.1493

Glory.1493

If Anet call simple fixes features, can’t we say that by their standard we already have few expansions ?

1 : southen cove
2 : healing skill
3 : edge of the mist
4 : dry top

According to their standard, we had 4 expansions. The work they are doing in background, where they have all of their 350 employes working on minus the 30 LS team dev and the lone dev that made the fix patch, is the next expansion. My bet is one utility skill shared class-wide for march 2015, wich will be required to defeat the dragon.

thats too much to ask if u take big changes to the cmd color they made.my bet is there is no dragon to defeat.it get killed by the plant virus b4 we can get to it

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Posted by: KarlaGrey.5903

KarlaGrey.5903

A very insightful video on the F2P model, which I also posted in my most recent thread.
Mind there are several parts that apply to GW2, even though it was originally a b2p model and does not provide stat increases behind a pay wall…yet. It does however cannibalize its own player base by designing the game in a way which forcefully promotes purchasing game items with rl money, rather than placing them in the game itself.

RIP ‘gf left me coz of ladderboard’ Total views: 71,688 Total posts: 363

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

You mean they do exactly like F2P games do.

The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.

Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.

Its pretty simple:

Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no -> P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes -> F2P

By that definition then GW2 is F2P.

Sorry you can’t ignore the freemium/hybrid MMO business model which is neither pure F2P or P2P but offers both to the player.

SWTOR
http://www.swtor.com/free/features

LOTRO
http://www.lotro.com/en/game/vip

RIFT
http://www.riftgame.com/en/store/#patron

TERA
https://store.enmasse.com/tera/elite-status

Here are some more:

Champions Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/3028173

Star Trek Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/3026713

Dungeons & Dragons Online
http://www.ddo.com/en/become-vip

EverQuest, EverQuest II, DCUO, Planetside 2
https://www.everquest.com/membership

All of these plans give the player the same access they had to the game’s features before the game went from P2P to freemium/hybrid. It’s different from say Nexon’s F2P MMOs where nobody was ever a subscribing player and everyone started with the same access.

Well a payment model says something about how a company makes it’s money. Of course there are multiple ways but where do they focus on?

Lets take WoW. It has a cash-shop (but very limited), it has a expansions but only once every 2 years so where does their main income come from? The sub. So we name is a sub-based model (P2P).

All those F2P games seem to be focusing on cash-shop sales. Those who used to be subs did not go F2P for nothing, They did because there sub-focus did not bring in enough money. So do you focus on the cash-shop it’s F2P (while the name is not great, that just evolved that way. Cash-shop model would be a better name). In many of the F2P games with optional sub they focus on the cash-shop and have the sub as a way out of the limitations.

Lastly there is B2P that focuses on the game sales. Mostly used model in the non-mmo marked but can also be used in the MMO market when releasing regular expansions and it focuses on that to generate it’s income. Thats what GW1 was.

WoW cash shop may be very limited but release of stuff like the Sparkle Pony which you could only get from there netted them a ridiculous amount of money. It’s pay to look awesome in a game that has a sub.

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Posted by: MikaHR.1978

MikaHR.1978

You mean they do exactly like F2P games do.

The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.

Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.

Its pretty simple:

Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no -> P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes -> F2P

By that definition then GW2 is F2P.

Sorry you can’t ignore the freemium/hybrid MMO business model which is neither pure F2P or P2P but offers both to the player.

SWTOR
http://www.swtor.com/free/features

LOTRO
http://www.lotro.com/en/game/vip

RIFT
http://www.riftgame.com/en/store/#patron

TERA
https://store.enmasse.com/tera/elite-status

Here are some more:

Champions Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/3028173

Star Trek Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/3026713

Dungeons & Dragons Online
http://www.ddo.com/en/become-vip

EverQuest, EverQuest II, DCUO, Planetside 2
https://www.everquest.com/membership

All of these plans give the player the same access they had to the game’s features before the game went from P2P to freemium/hybrid. It’s different from say Nexon’s F2P MMOs where nobody was ever a subscribing player and everyone started with the same access.

Sure, and those are all F2P games that have many ways to spend money, just like all other F2P games (sub is pretty much bundled cash shop items with maybe some “special” perks)

I dont understand why people are trying to cram “sub” into the definition of “free”.

Cash shop items are optional.

Sub game fees are not.

What you get for your money is irrelevant. The question to be addressed is “does the game force you to pay to receive key features or not?”

the problem with your definition is that “key features” is vague, and different people will interpret it differently

Ability to access and play the game is not vague at all.

Tell you what, try to play WoW or EvE without paying a sub, then try to play all those other games and then return to report which ones are sub based and which ones are F2P.

by your definition a great many the subscription type services in the world(not just games) are free because there exists a way to access those services in a limited amount/fashion without paying a subscription.

any game that makes you pay a recurring fee to enjoy the core game content, where not paying would either prohibit you from playing the game or progressing to the same endpoint as players that do pay is a sub based game.

A demo is not a full game. It is an extended advertisement.

I don’t understand why that is impossible to grasp, still. Its like people don’t want to admit that Gw2 has everything available for free, and is still stable with revenue compared to games that force people to pay to gain or retain the right to play the entire game.

actually people are just trying to come up with consensus on what these terms mean, for example, by the definition you just gave, champions online and SWTOR are definately sub games, however to mika they are not.

No, you dont have to pay a sub to access the game (and progress) in SWTOR or CO. Educate yourself a bit before you make such claims next time.

Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Why would people want it to fail while being active on these forums?

Never, ever underestimate the drive of a former fan to ruin or see ruined what they once loved.

i think people who are still here want it to succeed, however they different ideas of how that can/will happen

I don’t need to think that – I know it to be true.

It is true. It’s how I felt about Rift (and this forum is my karma lol).

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Posted by: Beldin.5498

Beldin.5498

Since Turbine demonstrated that this works, just about every MMO that was once subscription in NA has gone this route. None to my knowledge has gone from subscription to pure F2P, it would simply alienate their original paying customers. That’s why people are counting the days until ESO and WildStar does the same. I think SWTOR has the record at 9 months.

I started Lotro with 7-8 friends when it went F2P .. however everyone of us in the end
bought a subscription for the 6 month we played it.

When we stopped playing it i was nearly in the position to cancel the sub, since i
bought the most important zones from my stipend .. so that is the good thing
of their model, that after a while you own all that stuff .. however its nearly unplayable
if you don’t have a sub or throw in money for half a year of subs to buy most zones
directly.

EVERY MMO is awesome until it is released then its unfinished. A month after release it just sucks.
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.

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Posted by: tigirius.9014

tigirius.9014

What exactly do you HAVE TO pay for to progress in GW2. Im curious, i have 11 80-ies and i didnt have to pay for anything? Elaborate on that, maybe i missed something progressing 11 characters to max level to completely progress without being forced to pay for anything.

And, just for record, nobody called GW2 F2P game, dont know where you got that.

AND i got much more of everything that i got for FREE in GW2 after the initial purchase than i got from all that wasted sub money since i strted playing MMOs in 2002. So yeah, theres that also.

But i agree, for instance, SWTOR has abbysmal F2P model thats based on just gambling boxes (its just a matter of time until taxman look into that) and recolored stuff AND buying freaking pieces of UI lol

let me clarify so that everyone can keep up in the class. If you have one of those PermaDR accounts and or the so called unlucky accounts, you cannot earn which means you can go do anything in the game and the drops just do not flow. So that means you don’t earn gold. Add to that the fact that they nickle and dime you while leveling (5 silver when you complete a map) but expect gold for things like traits to catchup with your buddies and there you are. Gold shouldn’t be tied to progression at all. It’s fine for racial armors (although I disagree with that practice too but for other reasons) but for sigils/runes and specific new types of armors of which are not on karma vendors, and trait costs those are progression systems.

They put karma into the game for a reason, I’m simply reminding them that they should make karma the system to use for progression not gold.

They can charge all they want for cosmetics I don’t mind that, they can make people pay for hearthstones I don’t mind that too much but progression on an unlucky account is what I’m specifically talking about.

And the reason you’re confused probably means that you don’t have one of those. Thousands have reported having those types of accounts and most likely left the game a while back because of the ongoing problems with the economy and how this game is designed under the hood. And let me tell you another thing for those doubters out there. It happens. When you see those same guild buddies with the same magic find as you doing the same events week in and week out ending up with everything and the kitchen sink and you get nothing month after month after month, there’s a problem, and it’s not simply a matter of RNG.

Does that clear it up now? Oh btw, in order for a toxically RNG system to seem “meaningful” to the elite, it has to make almost everyone not get drops at all.

Anyway, people didn’t just start leaving the game because something they didn’t like in their imagination, they started leaving because things like this. The game isn’t rewarding and even the devs recognized it 7 months ago promising a rewards revamp. Even with the changes to the system for personal story, what happens to make people leave occurs after reaching level 80. When all you get are the mandatory rares/exotics (1 at a time mind you) from boss events, there’s a serious issue with your rewards system.

Even WoW’s open world event system on their island is more rewarding at this point.

If they want people back they’ll have to add the carrot on a stick beyond the skins thing otherwise people will continue to leave and stay gone and a couple of years down the road they will be known as “Remember that game that had unlucky accounts that no matter what you did nothing would drop, and people on the forums actually defended that like it was okay or something! yeah that one!”

Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!

(edited by tigirius.9014)

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Posted by: bears.4719

bears.4719

I am still waiting for that Cantha expansion or any expansion tbh… Would put some money on nice looking outfits, i think costume designers for this game are using the wrong kind of drugs.
I do not play that much Swtor, maybe few hours a week, but i bought their expansion to gain new levels and areas and i bought some costumes too just to personalize my character.
GW2 is a bit different in this aspect. There is no expansion, no good costumes, there seems to be lack of anything to advance my gameplay experience through the shop.

(edited by bears.4719)

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Posted by: MikaHR.1978

MikaHR.1978

What exactly do you HAVE TO pay for to progress in GW2. Im curious, i have 11 80-ies and i didnt have to pay for anything? Elaborate on that, maybe i missed something progressing 11 characters to max level to completely progress without being forced to pay for anything.

And, just for record, nobody called GW2 F2P game, dont know where you got that.

AND i got much more of everything that i got for FREE in GW2 after the initial purchase than i got from all that wasted sub money since i strted playing MMOs in 2002. So yeah, theres that also.

But i agree, for instance, SWTOR has abbysmal F2P model thats based on just gambling boxes (its just a matter of time until taxman look into that) and recolored stuff AND buying freaking pieces of UI lol

let me clarify so that everyone can keep up in the class. If you have one of those PermaDR accounts and or the so called unlucky accounts, you cannot earn which means you can go do anything in the game and the drops just do not flow. So that means you don’t earn gold. Add to that the fact that they nickle and dime you while leveling (5 silver when you complete a map) but expect gold for things like traits to catchup with your buddies and there you are. Gold shouldn’t be tied to progression at all. It’s fine for racial armors (although I disagree with that practice too but for other reasons) but for sigils/runes and specific new types of armors of which are not on karma vendors, and trait costs those are progression systems.

They put karma into the game for a reason, I’m simply reminding them that they should make karma the system to use for progression not gold.

They can charge all they want for cosmetics I don’t mind that, they can make people pay for hearthstones I don’t mind that too much but progression on an unlucky account is what I’m specifically talking about.

And the reason you’re confused probably means that you don’t have one of those. Thousands have reported having those types of accounts and most likely left the game a while back because of the ongoing problems with the economy and how this game is designed under the hood. And let me tell you another thing for those doubters out there. It happens. When you see those same guild buddies with the same magic find as you doing the same events week in and week out ending up with everything and the kitchen sink and you get nothing month after month after month, there’s a problem, and it’s not simply a matter of RNG.

Does that clear it up now? Oh btw, in order for a toxically RNG system to seem “meaningful” to the elite, it has to make almost everyone not get drops at all.

Anyway, people didn’t just start leaving the game because something they didn’t like in their imagination, they started leaving because things like this. The game isn’t rewarding and even the devs recognized it 7 months ago promising a rewards revamp. Even with the changes to the system for personal story, what happens to make people leave occurs after reaching level 80. When all you get are the mandatory rares/exotics (1 at a time mind you) from boss events, there’s a serious issue with your rewards system.

Even WoW’s open world event system on their island is more rewarding at this point.

If they want people back they’ll have to add the carrot on a stick beyond the skins thing otherwise people will continue to leave and stay gone and a couple of years down the road they will be known as “Remember that game that had unlucky accounts that no matter what you did nothing would drop, and people on the forums actually defended that like it was okay or something! yeah that one!”

oh yes, and there i was thinking you talk about actual progression, how dumb of me, ill go stand in the corner now

No….type…of….progression….is….locked….behind….cash….shop….in….GW….2.

Just so everyone in class can keep up.

Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”