In regards to “splitting the already sparse player base”
Have you considered that the player base is sparse because people don’t like the game mode, and that requiring people to play it in order to play a mode they like may actually drive those players away, or result in behaviors like idling through conquests maps and actively creating a worse experience for people that actually like it?
You’re basically saying random que should be the only option, which is like suggesting that activities, WvW, conquest, and all matchup number variations should be on the same que. Doesn’t that seem a little unreasonable?
I’m wondering how we are able to reach conclusions on a game mode that is not even out yet? Seriously, some of you guys are reacting WAY over the top on this!
I was really stoked on what I saw. I left after they showed off the map. I come back and people are saying that this will be in the same queue as Conquest which is a totally different game type?
So you guys are offering Templates right? Templates where I can save as many build/gear combos as I want without the gem shop being involved? You know, so I can swap my armor quickly and conveniently because I am queued for 2 different formats in a single queue.
I was really stoked on what I saw. I left after they showed off the map. I come back and people are saying that this will be in the same queue as Conquest which is a totally different game type?
So you guys are offering Templates right? Templates where I can save as many build/gear combos as I want without the gem shop being involved? You know, so I can swap my armor quickly and conveniently because I am queued for 2 different formats in a single queue.
Would be nice but still won’t solve the issue.
Please separate stronghold and pvp queues.
Before GW2, I had never played any pvp. After a few months of PVE leveling, I poked my nose into WvW. At first, I was horrible and didn’t really understand what to do. Now after a couple thousand hours (mostly roaming solo), it’s my favorite part of the game by far. I really enjoy fighting other players even if I still get demolished sometimes.
A couple months ago, I finally tried pvp for the first time. I stumbled into the wrong section and ended up being a handicap for a group of people playing in a ranked match. I might go back and learn more about conquest pvp, but I don’t want to do it right now.
I am, however, really interested in playing stronghold. But I would choose to continue skipping pvp entirely if there wasn’t a queue specifically for stronghold.
Would be nice but still won’t solve the issue.
I have yet to hear a good argument on why build templates would not solve the majority of issues with the stronghold map being in the same queue as the other maps. Would you care to explain it to me.
It may be true that the PvP community might be divided if there’s a separate queue, but at least we will know which game mode is engaging to watch and to play—think of it as survival of the fittest game mode.
It’s possible that Stronghold might tank if it’s released; maybe not. But so far from what I’ve seen, it could give GW2 a foothold in the eSports scene.
Q.Q more? That’s about all I got from this post
@penelopehannibal
That’s what they said during Ready Up of today.
I would like the queues to be separate.
First, if there is going to be different roles for classes and different strategies for the game modes (Conquest vs. Stronghold) you shouldn’t put them together. It took 1 1/2 years to get random players to understand the game mode for conquest. With Stronghold thrown into the mix, (with a RNG chance of it being picked) it will make learning the strategies difficult on the casual part of the community.
Second, Players already refuse to change builds when Courtyard is picked in unranked games. (E.g. Turret Engi in courtyard doesn’t work well). IF we can’t even get players to change builds for courtyard, how are we going to get them to change builds for Stronghold? (A template option would be nice)
Third, Stronghold was suppposed to be a new Competitive Mode of PvP. A lot of teams were gearing up and prepping to make showing in the Stronghold format. If stronghold is stuck on an RNG basis, these teams will have little to no incentive to make a showing.
TL;DR Separate Ques for Stronghold!!!
Would be nice but still won’t solve the issue.
I have yet to hear a good argument on why build templates would not solve the majority of issues with the stronghold map being in the same queue as the other maps. Would you care to explain it to me.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Ready-Up-this-Friday-Stronghold/4794230
Would be nice but still won’t solve the issue.
I have yet to hear a good argument on why build templates would not solve the majority of issues with the stronghold map being in the same queue as the other maps. Would you care to explain it to me.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Ready-Up-this-Friday-Stronghold/4794230
Reply
So you are saying that people will leave the match if they don’t get the map they want. I agree with you on this matter. However would not the dishonored mechanic deter that action for the most part.
Acknowledgement
Also take note as the game is right now I agree that it needs to be a separate queue. However I think it is possible for them to make it work with it being in the same queue. I also understand their reasoning for doing so in the long term.
Suggestion
Perhaps there needs to be two votes. One for gametype one for map. I also feel that build templates will minigate most problems with them being in the same queue.
(edited by anzenketh.3759)
Would be nice but still won’t solve the issue.
I have yet to hear a good argument on why build templates would not solve the majority of issues with the stronghold map being in the same queue as the other maps. Would you care to explain it to me.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Ready-Up-this-Friday-Stronghold/4794230
So you are saying that people will leave the match if they don’t get the map they want. I agree with you on this matter. However would not the dishonored mechanic deter that action for the most part.
I doubt it. I’m not gonna play a game mode that I’m not interested/didn’t sign up for…I don’t care about how much dishonor I get.
Would be nice but still won’t solve the issue.
I have yet to hear a good argument on why build templates would not solve the majority of issues with the stronghold map being in the same queue as the other maps. Would you care to explain it to me.
- You can’t focus on one gamemode. You like Stronghold, but hate conquest? Tough luck, try the RNG voting.
Aside from the above reason which most people will agree with (I think?), I feel like this would have been the ideal moment to try a pug/guildteam only gamemode (a la HA/GVG from GW1). No option at all to solo/duoq it (or at least for the ranked version?). Several reasons why I’d think it would be a good thing for the game, which I have stated in an earlier comment.
In other MMOs, they have Instanced PvP yet their PvP modes require much larger numbers. So why couldn’t Anet handle a 5v5?
Would be nice but still won’t solve the issue.
I have yet to hear a good argument on why build templates would not solve the majority of issues with the stronghold map being in the same queue as the other maps. Would you care to explain it to me.
Players who end up disliking stronghold will be forced to play it and hate it.
Players who dislike conquest and do not play GW2’s pvp because of conquest, will hate it.
Players who want to invest significantly in a single game mode at a time will hate it.
To some, as it is to you, build swapping is the biggest problem with shared queue. To some others, like me, being forced to play conquest is way worse of a problem.
(edited by DiogoSilva.7089)
Or, better option, permanently retire Conquest, and replace it with something that doesn’t suck!
Would be nice but still won’t solve the issue.
I have yet to hear a good argument on why build templates would not solve the majority of issues with the stronghold map being in the same queue as the other maps. Would you care to explain it to me.
Many people don’t want to que for hours just to be able to play a single match of Stronghold. Map selection is RNG and there are 4 conquest maps in rated rotation with only 1 Stronghold, go figure.
It’s also possible that a team does well in conquest but sucks at stronghold or vice versa, which leads to even worse matchmaking (people get paired before the gamemode is decided, which rating will count for matchmaking, conquest or GvG?)
There absolutely has to be a separate queue for Stronghold from Conquest—100%—for many reasons, but mostly because it’s a different game.
One of the biggest problems for Conquest right now is so many players aren’t interested in that game mode, but to sPvP they have to play it, so the quality of play is really low. All it takes is one or two people in the match ignoring the game mechanic and the entire match feels poorly fought to all. If you force Conquest players and Stronghold players to play together it will harm both game modes and reduce overall interest and participation in sPvP.
I honestly cannot believe this would even be considered for a moment. They should add another Deathmatch map or two and make that a separate queue also, so players who just want to brawl can do that without polluting the ranks of players who want Conquest or Stronghold mechanics.
Sucks for me because I loathe conquest. If I was to get invested again into anything serious it’d have to be this mode, because I HATE conquest with a passion. Being forced onto circles is a design choice I will never ever agree with. That said, being a low chance to even get to play it and being forced to power through conquest for a bit of fun does absolutely nothing for me.
… what if Stronghold never comes up as an option for people to vote? If 1 vote messes it up for Everyone then people will simply ragequit.
It needs to be separate ques…
Would be nice but still won’t solve the issue.
I have yet to hear a good argument on why build templates would not solve the majority of issues with the stronghold map being in the same queue as the other maps. Would you care to explain it to me.
- You can’t focus on one gamemode. You like Stronghold, but hate conquest? Tough luck, try the RNG voting.
Aside from the above reason which most people will agree with (I think?), I feel like this would have been the ideal moment to try a pug/guildteam only gamemode (a la HA/GVG from GW1). No option at all to solo/duoq it (or at least for the ranked version?). Several reasons why I’d think it would be a good thing for the game, which I have stated in an earlier comment.
I can understand those that want to focus one one game mode.
Please note: I am not arguing for keeping it in the same queue. As it is right now I rather them be separate. These are questions that a developer may ask. I do see the point of people not wanting to queue for a long time for a chance to play the game mode. I would agree that this problem is greater with those that are better as sPvP.
(edited by anzenketh.3759)
There absolutely has to be a separate queue for Stronghold from Conquest—100%—for many reasons, but mostly because it’s a different game.
One of the biggest problems for Conquest right now is so many players aren’t interested in that game mode, but to sPvP they have to play it, so the quality of play is really low. All it takes is one or two people in the match ignoring the game mechanic and the entire match feels poorly fought to all. If you force Conquest players and Stronghold players to play together it will harm both game modes and reduce overall interest and participation in sPvP.
I honestly cannot believe this would even be considered for a moment. They should add another Deathmatch map or two and make that a separate queue also, so players who just want to brawl can do that without polluting the ranks of players who want Conquest or Stronghold mechanics.
I definitely agree with you.
I love GW2 gameplay, dynamic and original but I hate Conquest mode so imagine how hyped I was when they announced it. And now, they tell me something like “Hey, you know, you’ll anyway have to play Conquest lol !”. Really disappointing.
Would be nice but still won’t solve the issue.
I have yet to hear a good argument on why build templates would not solve the majority of issues with the stronghold map being in the same queue as the other maps. Would you care to explain it to me.
- You can’t focus on one gamemode. You like Stronghold, but hate conquest? Tough luck, try the RNG voting.
Aside from the above reason which most people will agree with (I think?), I feel like this would have been the ideal moment to try a pug/guildteam only gamemode (a la HA/GVG from GW1). No option at all to solo/duoq it (or at least for the ranked version?). Several reasons why I’d think it would be a good thing for the game, which I have stated in an earlier comment.
I can understand those that want to focus one one game mode.
- Is there a reason why custom arena’s are not viable?
- If you voted on the game mode first then voted on map would this be acceptable.
Please note: I am not arguing for keeping it in the same queue. As it is right now I rather them be separate. These are questions that a developer may ask.
I’m a casual competitive player. Custom arena doesn’t offer me a competitive infrastructure. I want a ranked experience with rewards tied to it.
Voting on gamemode still means you need to be lucky. It has to be a 100% chance to play stronghold or conquest, whichever you want to play.
I can understand those that want to focus one one game mode.
- Is there a reason why custom arena is not viable?
- If you voted on the game mode first then voted on map would this be acceptable.
Please note: I am not arguing for keeping it in the same queue. As it is right now I rather them be separate. These are questions that a developer may ask.
About custom arena:
About voting on a mode, it’ll still be RNG. What if stronghold players who dislike conquest (or vice-versa) get the game mode they do not want? They will either get punished by being forced into something that they don’t like, or punished for leaving. It’s a lose-lose scenario.
How can I watch this. If I missed the livestream. Thanks in advance
How can I watch this. If I missed the livestream. Thanks in advance
It has to be seperated. There’s just no other way. Really…. i’m not even joking. Never has something been so clear.
I’m a casual competitive player. Custom arena doesn’t offer me a competitive infrastructure. I want a ranked experience with rewards tied to it.
Voting on gamemode still means you need to be lucky. It has to be a 100% chance to play stronghold or conquest, whichever you want to play.
Acknowledgment
I can understand that you may not be lucky to get to play stronghold or conquest or deathmatch. But voting on the mode would increase your chances as it removes the RNG and then you must depend on the will of the players that you play with.
Argument
One could also argue that rank matches should not allow you to get 100% guarantee of the map choice you want. The reason for this is that ranking higher in the leaderboards should demonstrate that you are good at all PvP modes not just one type.
Solution and problem with solution
The solution to this is make a different leaderboard for each game type. However if the playerbase shrinks that also increases the queue times. Queue times are already high for those that have a high MBR ( I think that is the right term ). Splitting the playerbase would only make this problem worse.
Question
So then perhaps a question might come would you rather have the opportunity to choose your gamemode or have shorter queue times.
(edited by anzenketh.3759)
Stronghold would have to be majority vote instead of rnd. Same que but a separated:
Majority vote: – Conquest -or- Stronghold-
I still think they should be completely separated ques…
So you’re putting out a new game mode (that sounds really cool!) that will require totally unique strategies and encourage completely novel builds suited for the overarching strat (very interesting!)… and you aren’t planning on featuring it in a separate queue?
We also haven’t heard any serious news about build templates that might make this slightly less of an awful idea.
Why did it seem like a good thought to put two completely dissonant game-modes – that are bound to attract people who like one and not the other – into the same queue? Do you just not want people to take PvP seriously? Making people churn through stuff they hate to get to stuff they want to do is really not how GW2 was supposed to operate, and I fail to see the value-add in mashing them up together. Making a guild-group that specializes in Stronghold get sent through the ringer on a bunch of conquest maps and having no real sense of their rating is just not good if you want players to take the mode seriously.
If you want to cross-promote it for folks who like one but haven’t tried the other, why not add some mode-specific dailies? Or one-time achievements? Mashing them into the same queue is a terrible long-term idea for both modes.
lol look at this.
“players aren’t interesting in conquest game mode”?
you guys are not being reasonable.
there are thousands of players enjoying conquest as we speak you know…
having a mixed pool and being able to vote on which map to play is the best option FOR NOW.
if you want stronghold exclusivity, again, there are custom arenas for y’all. but those who’ve been enjoying conquest all that time shouldn’t be penalized. simple
stronghold will not be the same queue.
the feedback is str0nk
Question
So then perhaps a question might come would you rather have the opportunity to choose your gamemode or have shorter queue times.
Population issue are a valid concern. But this decision makes no sense at all. While it might alleviate population issues, it’ll destroy the potential the gamemode has.
Splitting atleast conquest and stronghold will cause short term population unbalance, however long term (depending on the enjoyability of the gamemode) it will boost sPvP in its entirety.
Maybe their guild LB’s will make sense of this all.
If you want to cross-promote it for folks who like one but haven’t tried the other, why not add some mode-specific dailies? Or one-time achievements? Mashing them into the same queue is a terrible long-term idea for both modes.
That’s a good solution for the potential issue of playerbase splitting.
Add the following dailies each and every day:
And then players who like both modes will play both each day.
Guys we should also remember that we are talking about more or less a 15min game mode with one map. MOBA games can be one map because its 30+ min games but I would imagine a 15min game mode with only 1 map will have the possibility of getting old quick. Thats not even taking into consideration the blow out games that I’m sure will end even quicker.
Question
So then perhaps a question might come would you rather have the opportunity to choose your gamemode or have shorter queue times.Population issue are a valid concern. But this decision makes no sense at all. While it might alleviate population issues, it’ll destroy the potential the gamemode has.
Splitting atleast conquest and stronghold will cause short term population unbalance, however long term (depending on the enjoyability of the gamemode) it will boost sPvP in its entirety.
Maybe their guild LB’s will make sense of this all.
One could also argue that having longer queue times could be more of a issue. This is why I suggested a system where people vote on a gamemode then vote on the map.
In addition to that host tournaments for all game mode types. They could even be automatic tournaments with vary good in game rewards (perhaps even gems). The difference is tournaments would happen at a specific time negating the queue problem.
Stronghold needs to be seperated from conquest. It’s the only way. Putting it into one queue will fail.
I can allready see all the afk’ers and leavers…….. + if i want to play conquest/stronghold with my guild team i want to spec only for one gamemode. I want to be perfectly prepared. This won’t work….
Is there a reason why custom arena is not viable?
Not if we want the ability to be auto-matched against (roughly) comparable skill-level players in a competitive or pseudo-competitive format. Anet continues to put a lot of effort and thought into trying to improve their matchmaking so that players are matched up in (hopefully) fair AND varied fights. Granted, players could organize their own matchmaking with custom arena’s, but that seems a poor trade off with all of their efforts.
As to the argument that combining the queue eliminates splitting the population:
1) It seems to assume that part of the population doesn’t leave because they can no longer play what they want to. Imagine logging into the game, and having a dice roll to decide whether your wvw or spvp or dungeon run tonight – even worse, imagine having a weighted dice roll voted on by other players where YOU lose and end up having to play the game mode you really didn’t want to play. Oh and make it worse – if you leave, you get dishonor, and told you can’t play the thing you want to at all. Although I might be patient the first couple times, eventually I know as my roll went bad again and again that I would a) be upset at the other players b) not want to continue playing. Result: the population you were trying to keep from being split, has been dwindled regardless. Granted spvp (conquest) and spvp (stronghold) might not be as different as all the other GW2 has to offer, but for those that want one or the other – it will feel like it.
2) It seems to assume that the population for the new game mode doesn’t grow to support it on its own. The dev’s have claimed that it has the potential to appeal to a wider base of players (anecdotal evidence, my pvx guild is psyched). Or, if you are assuming that happens, you are assuming that same group of new additions to the population pool will also stay around and enjoy conquest. That doesn’t seem guaranteed.
I like the idea of letting people choose between ranked/unranked and then conquest/stronghold/both, with a small (actually, maybe not so small- what’s the harm – make it a decent incentive?) bonus for those who are willing to roll the dice for the sake of all of our queue’s.
(edited by Shade Madrigal.1729)
Suggestion:
You know how when you queue up you can choose a map, and each person puts a vote for one of three maps, and then taking that into a pie it’s RNG on which map is chosen?
Why not do that for three PvP modes (Team Deathmatch, Conquest, and Stronghold)?
So if everyone wants Stronghold… Stronghold it will be. If 9 folks want stronghold, and 1 person wants Conquest, then there will be a 9 in 10 chance that Stronghold it will be.
The map becomes completely random out of the whole selection available. Take some old Conquest maps and remove the cap points to turn them into unique-objective Team Deathmatches. In time, simply add new PvP modes to go with those three.
Fairest option without dividing the small PvP community more.
I like the idea of letting people choose between ranked/unranked and then conquest/stronghold/both, with a small (actually, maybe not so small- what’s the harm?) bonus for those who are willing to roll the dice for the sake of all of our queue’s.
There’s a thought. Give a bonus to reward track completion if you join the combined queue, and let the combined queue mingle with the conquest/stronghold only queues to supplement both. You get faster match times and rewarded for supporting the players who only want to do one or the other, and I’m sure there will be enough players interested in both to keep the one-mode only players afloat.
I don’t understand how the same queue would work when we have two leaderboards, one for conquest and one for guild stronghold. There should be a matchmaking algorithm solely for stronghold.
How about a guild team who wanted to play stronghold and climbed on stronghold leaderboard, have their builds ready, but ending up picking conquest maps for the whole night, is that fun?
I just wanted to jump in and add my feedback that we need separate queues. Instead of the existing Practice/Unranked/Ranked buttons, the buttons should be Conquest/Stronghold/Deathmatch. Once you select one option, the buttons should refresh to let you choose Ranked/Unranked/Practice.
Population should be less of an issue as the expansion will pull in lots of players. If populations drop dramatically, that’s the time to start figuring out how to handle the queues.
I made a poll concerning this
I knew someone would bring up the specter of “custom arenas” as some sort of solution. But it’s not. They are a fantastic way for a guild, or team, or some group that needs it’s own space to do a specific activity, and that’s great. However custom arenas do a lot more to “split the player base” than different queue options ever could. And they are an incredibly awkward play space to navigate; you spend most of your time not playing!
Look, if people who want to play Conquest suddenly are no longer forced to play with people who don’t, the quality of all Conquest game play will shoot up, to everyone’s delight. Splitting queues is a big win for Conquest PvPers, and everyone else, too.
Also, the “splitting the community” is an illusion. Consider 20 players, enough for two matches, 10 want Stronghold, 10 want Conquest. Can anyone really believe the best way to split them into two games isn’t to just let them play the mode they want, but to force them to mix and play a random mode?
(edited by Pikka.6023)
If Stronghold is a new game mode it makes no sense to have to queue for a mix of 2 modes.
If one can down vote all but one map, that is fine.
… what if Stronghold never comes up as an option for people to vote?
I agree.. especially for guild teams. They get together, well-prepared, but never get a chance to play stronghold… LOL
Anet should think about how the stronghold LB works. Same queue doesn’t make sense to me at all.
lol look at this.
“players aren’t interesting in conquest game mode”?
you guys are not being reasonable.
there are thousands of players enjoying conquest as we speak you know…
having a mixed pool and being able to vote on which map to play is the best option FOR NOW.
if you want stronghold exclusivity, again, there are custom arenas for y’all. but those who’ve been enjoying conquest all that time shouldn’t be penalized. simple
I dont get your point at all. If there are thousands of players enjoying conquest, wouldnt they prefer it if they could queue up for conquest exclusively instead of randomly being thrown into a Stronghold game? They exclusivity goes both ways; do you realise that?
I dont think ‘splitting the playerbase’ is really such a big problem. Would prefer that to being thrown into a game mode i dont want to play.
(edited by RashanDale.3609)
lol look at this.
“players aren’t interesting in conquest game mode”?
you guys are not being reasonable.
there are thousands of players enjoying conquest as we speak you know…
having a mixed pool and being able to vote on which map to play is the best option FOR NOW.
if you want stronghold exclusivity, again, there are custom arenas for y’all. but those who’ve been enjoying conquest all that time shouldn’t be penalized. simpleI dont get your point at all. If there are thousands of players enjoying conquest, wouldnt they prefer it if they could queue up for conquest exclusively instead of randomly being thrown into a Stronghold game? They exclusivity goes both ways; do you realise that?
I dont think ‘splitting the playerbase’ is really such a big problem. Would prefer that to being thrown into a game mode i dont want to play.
let me explain then.
i love conquest, don’t have much issues with it.
i don’t particularly enjoy death match, still play it now and then
very interested in Stronghold.
i would like to have to give up one to play the other, i like the fact that they are all in a pool and i can up-vote or down-vote which map i want to play, at very instant.
when i want to play only one game mode, i just join a custom arena and play round all day long.
when i play unranked or ranked. i want diversity. the real complain there was with conquest wasn’t that it boring or not good. the complaint was that conquest was the only game mode available. now we getting 3 game modes. should we do 3 queues?
(edited by feight.2704)
lol look at this.
“players aren’t interesting in conquest game mode”?
you guys are not being reasonable.
there are thousands of players enjoying conquest as we speak you know…
having a mixed pool and being able to vote on which map to play is the best option FOR NOW.
if you want stronghold exclusivity, again, there are custom arenas for y’all. but those who’ve been enjoying conquest all that time shouldn’t be penalized. simpleI dont get your point at all. If there are thousands of players enjoying conquest, wouldnt they prefer it if they could queue up for conquest exclusively instead of randomly being thrown into a Stronghold game? They exclusivity goes both ways; do you realise that?
I dont think ‘splitting the playerbase’ is really such a big problem. Would prefer that to being thrown into a game mode i dont want to play.
let me explain then.
i love conquest, don’t have much issues with it.
i don’t particularly enjoy death match, still play it now and then
very interested in Stronghold.
i would like to have to give up one to play the other, i like the fact that they are all in a pool and i can up-vote or down-vote which map i want to play, at very instant.
when i want to play only one game mode, i just join a custom arena and play round all day long.
Let the players decide which mode BEFORE queing. Everyone wins
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