Guild Wars 2

Britannicus.4782:

Copestetic.5174:

It’s to keep Conquest from completely dying.

Maybe they could give a small bonus for players who queue any game type. But people who queue just for one game mode should get what they want.

That is a great idea!

If we had build templates in the game multiple game modes in the same queue would not be as big of a problem.

I hope that they re-prioritize build templates so that it does not hurt these game modes due to players being unprepared with their builds.

Wild Throw.9437:

Did they seriously say that the two modes will share a queue? That is probably the dumbest thing I have heard in my life.

Then that’s the dumbest thing you’ve heard in your life. They did, and I agree. Any hype I had for Stronghold has been crushed knowing I’m going to have to put faith in 9 other players. Given my luck on Courtyard when it’s up for voting, I’m not too optimistic.

I also think there should be different queues for the conquest and stronghold.

I’m still baffled…..

Population issue is not justified in this case. In the long term it’ll hurt the population much much much more.

Unbekitteninglievable.

So you are going to be forced to play conquest if you want to play Stronghold? How stupid. Why do they care anyway. If Strong Hold was to become more popular then conquest was why would that be bad?

Really need to make so that Stronghold and Conquest have separate queues, as I will expect it to have completely different builds and classes which are effective.
#SeparateQueues

This is a terrible decision. In every way possible. Team compositions for Stronghold versus Conquest will likely need to be very different, such as having two thieves on a team, one an assassin type build, one a permastealth, may be a boon in Stronghold, but terrible in Conquest. We can’t change classes because of the way the matchmaking works, so we’ll be stuck in a comp that doesn’t make sense for both modes. Honestly they need different ques, even if it increases the que times, it’ll be more rewarding gameplay in separate ques.

This is completely stupid, why would you do a pvp update threatening players to get dishonnor if they changed class before a match when you put 2 different gamemodes in the same queue. Players WILL need to change their build and their class to suit the gamemode. There is no logical reason to put these gamemodes together

yay for 2 shadow art thieves per team!

Thanks guy for all the info and gameplay. We want more streams like this one!

butch.8136:

I’m still baffled…..

Population issue is not justified in this case. In the long term it’ll hurt the population much much much more.

Unbekitteninglievable.

It wont hurt* the population even a scratch compred their to community with their silly suggestions over the 2 years .
Be quiet a bit and understand that they will keep making new maps/consepts until one is truly found to justify a solo que for that

Nise Sig :P

all we need is an UI with 3 buttons:

[TDM ]——————- [CONQUEST] —-———- [STRONGHOLD]

each of which after clicked opens 2 more buttons:

[Unranked] —-————————- [Ranked]

“Ranked” could use a split between soloQ and teamQ but thats called wishing too much, i’d be happy even without this last part

Oh, and each with its own leaderboard, possibly not a grinding leaderboard also.

This is not an optimal choice, basically you’re saying the chance to play stronghold is behind a RNG.

It’s too different from other modes, it require strategy and different builds, queue can’t be the same

Many players will want to train only on stronghold, many player will come back only for stronghold, hide this new gamemode behind an RPG option is a huge mistake.

Basically you’re breaking the legs to a very shiny baby.

Ideally I’d like to see each game mode have its own que but right now since their are not many maps compared to conquest I understand why they are going this route. But since we have three different game modes in one que I hope we can have build templates or another way to set up our builds before the matches begin. Personally I hope its build templates over extra time before the match starts because having to go through the process of changing build after each game would get annoying very quickly.

Killthehealersffs.8940:

butch.8136:

I’m still baffled…..

Population issue is not justified in this case. In the long term it’ll hurt the population much much much more.

Unbekitteninglievable.

It wont hurt* the population even a scratch compred their to community with their silly suggestions over the 2 years .
Be quiet a bit and understand that they will keep making new maps/consepts until one is truly found to justify a solo que for that

Nise Sig :P

Completely different from an advertising standpoint. Courtyard was a response to the community wanting DM and they just threw it in to try.
They said this’ll be a new gamemode with guild LB’s and whatnot. Which implies being able to devote 100% of your gametime to playing that gamemode.

Why not do exactly what they did in Guild Wars 1. Separate the modes. In GW1 I didn’t go to HA because I wanted to GvG. I went to HA to play its gametype. Stronghold is completely different from conquest, ANET has even said this themselves. Why put two completely different game types together. You have PvEland aka tyria, WvW, Conquest(HoTM), make something for stronghold or have a queue option. Don’t be stupid. As of now all the excitement I had for this is gone. Please get back on track.

For the love of god, separate the queues. Stronghold and conquest are far too different to be in the same queue (and let’s not even talk about deathmatch). How can you expect there to be new ways to play and new builds centered around stronghold if we can’t even choose to play the mode when we like?

Who’s making these decisions? (skyhammer, removal of soloque, existence of hotjoin, shared que with an entirely different ladder – how is that even supposed to work? matchmaking picks the teams based on conquest rating and then Stronghold gets voted?) Is it 1 guy we can blame or more?

Loki.8793:

Makes me wonder how they plan on handling the guild aspect of this. If I’m remembering correctly, they stated there would be a guild leaderboard for this mode. There HAS to be a way to play this mode outside of the normal conquest queue.

There will be a guild leaderboard. The leaderboard is not specifically for this mode.

Yeah .. with Guild LB (which mostly will be like a ’’masked’’ MATS or whatever GW1 automated tournamnts are called) can play that specific map 100% for different rewards from the normal LB .
While you can keep soloing in ranked Tournaments for the normal LB rewards

If you post in this thread enough, Anet may reconsider like they did with Runes of Perplexity! Or maybe not/one year later like they did with Skyhammer! It’s a toss up!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

If we also get build templates, it’s not a big deal. Preferably a system that works in both PvE and PvP, but I’ll take just PvP for starters.

Also, you guys missed another implication … if it’s in the same queue that would mean you could play it without owning the expansion.

Thanks for answering my question (quoted below) guys, but I don’t really feel like your answer addressed my concerns. You said having NPCs going down both lanes didn’t work cause it became too pve and they never got to their objetive, but you didn’t say if you explored other alternatives, like having the front gates be open but more heavily defended, or having an NPC thief who can follow you and get you in like in GW1 Warriors Isle. Nor did you address the problem I pointed out with your approach, that teams won’t be able to use mobility and map control to come back after losing fights if the lanes are unidirectional like that.

manveruppd.7601:

Here’s a question Grouch:
As per the blog post, players cannot damage gates, and summoned doorbreaker NPCs can only proceed down 1 lane. I’m concerned that this might segregate the action too much, and make each match more predictable because you know which lane the enemy is coming from. If you have a big team fight at the supply depot in the centre and beat the enemy back to their front gates, you can’t really push your advantage there, because you can only break the OTHER gate! And for the team that just got beaten back to their base, they can’t really sneak out the other way and try a sneaky gank from the rear gate, because their doorbreaker NPCs all spawn on the lane they just got pushed back from!

I just worry that breaking the game down into asymmetrical attack/defence lanes will mean there’s less scope for tactical manoeuvring and map control. The appeal of both MOBAs and of GvG in GW1 was that you can do things such as feint down one lane while making your “real” attack down another, or do a slow fighting retreat down one lane while pulling a sneak attack along a different route, generally give the enemy the runaround. In Stronghold, there’s exactly 1 lane you need to defend, and 1 lane you can attack.

So my question is, do you really think the secondary objectives (heroes etc) will be enough to ensure a team can come back from behind through map movement? If they’re already being pressed, won’t it be easier for the team in the lead to spare a person to go cap heroes and thereby solidify their lead?

Have your designers considered putting NPC spawn camps for both teams on both lanes, so you can advance down whichever one you want? Alternatively, what if the front game of each team was completely open, but much more heavily defended, with very powerful NPCs, so that each time had the option of either making a full-on front push, or to sneak round the side with doorbreaker mobs?

Stronghold in the same queue as Conquest : NO !

What thekitten* is wrong with you ? We don’t want to have to cap again and again and againkitten**** kittened points like dumbs.

Ok, maybe it would split your sPvP community but we should be able to choose the game mode we love to play, you mustn’t choose it for us like that.

There are currently 7 maps, 6 for conquest, only 1 for deathmatch so with your expansion there would be 8 maps. So what, 1 chance on 8 to be able to play Stronghold ?

Ok then have fun with your game, I won’t definitively buy your expansion only due to your fatal mistake on this.

EDIT : IMPORTANT ! Vote for the way you want here : http://strawpoll.me/3632530/

I totally agree with you man. Poor Anet you are simply clueless.
I want back Anet 2012 when the game was lauched.
We miss Robert Hrouda he was a great Dev

These topics shouldn’t have been merged.. but if you do it, merge it by the topic of the discussion and don’t try to hide the shared que concerns behind this title.

They really are T E R R I B L E !
They did a GREAT job on this new mode, it looks fresh, dynamic and to offer a lot of variety BUT they had to recall you that Conquest kitten mode is their main sPvP mode.

Pff so disappointed.

I agree. I find the conquest game type boring, and stronghold sounds fun. I’d like to just play stronghold when I que.

Never mind that I’m in que with my guild, and team compositions are different for both modes, and often different players.

I don’t think anyone cares if there’s only one stronghold map at the outset. DOTA had one map for kittening years, so did LOL, and nobody cared. There should absolutely be a separate que per gametype.

Stronghold was advertised to not only require different roles and builds than Conquest, but also to attract different types of players.

If both game modes are in the same queue, we will most likely end up with matches where all players who do not end up in their desired game mode will leave the match immediately. And I couldn’t even blame them for that.

mmm …
what were they suppose to do? i mean… creating another queue to split the already sparsely populated pvp arenas? that would just make the whole pvp experience unplayable. at least for me, if i have to wait any longer for joining a game… zzz
thats why there’s custom arenas, if you wanna play only that map, have fun.
we got map selection too..

witcher.3197:

These topics shouldn’t have been merged.. but if you do it, merge it by the topic of the discussion and don’t try to hide the shared que concerns behind this title.

Seriously this topic instantly trumped turret engie hate threads and then wound up 5 tabs deep on a forum that does not in any way focus on the discussion…. great play!

Because of the merge, I typed up a post and it got lost, but the short story is this

With combined queue, if I just want to play stronghold I’ll end up leaving once a night when conquest is rolled, making my team mad, the games worse, and my dishonor go up.

This is the only competitive game I’ve ever played with multiple gametypes that only had the random queue available for matchmaking. I was so hyped for Stronghold but a shared queue is totally killing the hype for me.

Also, without a shared queue, you don’t have to be a slave to the 15 minute time limit. If that’s what seems best for stronghold, then great! But if it’s not what’s best for the gametype, I don’t want you to force it into that time limit just to make it match conquest.

its seems you guys just want to replace conquest with stronghold.
thats a bad look.
some people enjoy conquest, i dont see why we cant have it all.
makes me think of little kids when they get their new toys.

aRestless.6213:

Stronghold was advertised to not only require different roles and builds than Conquest, but also to attract different types of players.

If both game modes are in the same queue, we will most likely end up with matches where all players who do not end up in their desired game mode will leave the match immediately. And I couldn’t even blame them for that.

This is one of my concerns as well. But really, who can blame them? We’ve had Conquest forever now. People are tired of it, or just flat-out not interested in it.

Yeah I agree, there is a big contraddiction about “new builds and new play style” and sharing the queue with Conquest and Courtyard map.

Other thing, guild leaderboard and same queue? So same 5 men MMR average to determine a guild leadaerboard?

Honestly I thought the access to Stronghold depended on Guild Hall, with 1 guild (1 team) having an unique MMR (for the entire guild).

OP is OP. They done nothing wrong, they said you could vote to decide which mode to play on, so if u want play stronghold just vote for stronghold. Also this is pre early beta, so things could change depending on feedback.

Why can’t we have it like in gw1? Where you form PuGs or go with your guildteam? These modes are heavy on teamplay. Stronghold seems to have way more objectives and options, as such it has much more depth and choices to be made. While soloq/duoq etc makes it more accessible, it does create a lot of problems. A lot of rage, whining etc. comes from the fact that people soloq in a teamplay heavy game where the individual skill cannot carry a team.

It is what it is for conquest. You cannot limit that mode anymore.
But I’d want to see what a pug/guildteam only gamemode does to the pvp community. It would alleviate matchmaking issues/QQ, create a healthier competitive scene as people are forced to look for pugs/guilds and communicate, etc.

@feight.2704

Then go queue for Conquest but let us play Stronghold in peace.

aRestless.6213:

Stronghold was advertised to not only require different roles and builds than Conquest, but also to attract different types of players.

If both game modes are in the same queue, we will most likely end up with matches where all players who do not end up in their desired game mode will leave the match immediately. And I couldn’t even blame them for that.

yup they’ll pay for a week and quit when the rotation of paying the game you want every once in a while gets old. so all the time put into stronghold will serve nothing. The effort of mixing moba with spvp will be a waste because anet would rather kill their player base then risk letting them separate.

warbignime.4610:

OP is OP. They done nothing wrong, they said you could vote to decide which mode to play on, so if u want play stronghold just vote for stronghold. Also this is pre early beta, so things could change depending on feedback.

But some people hate conquest and if they dont get stronghold they may just leave and give a 4v5 game…

i said this about 2v2, 3v3 etc arenas, applies here too

Don’t want to do it, because it could split an already small pvp player base into two smaller groups. also, there are complaints that it would screw up balancing the current conquest setup.

1. just implement it, don’t worry about balance, let people play what they want to play.
2. if people like it, it could bring in more players – which is what everyone would like. the top players are going to play where more players are
3. if everyone moves to it and it becomes more popular than conquest , then maybe conquest was the wrong system to be the primary focus of pvp.
4. profit

Strongholds needs it’s own queue to flourish. A lot of players including myself don’t want to play Conquest unless it’s for some quick unranked fun.

Mixing these modes just makes everyone unhappy.

But Stronghold requires different builds than conquest, which we need to prepare before queue! It is so dumb, srsly.
Maybe it would be good for solo arenas to have a chance to pick SH besides conquest, but if 5-ppl party wants to play only Stronghold why stop them?! @ArenaNet, why?

while the game mode itself looks very nice i am really disappointed that it shares the same queue as conquest. that’s a bad decision and i really hope they will reconsider it.

its not that hard to just give the players seperate game modes. just add conquest, stronghold (maybe tdm in the future) and random with additional rewards to make it interesting.

butch.8136:

But I’d want to see what a pug/guildteam only gamemode does to the pvp community. It would alleviate matchmaking issues/QQ, create a healthier competitive scene as people are forced to look for pugs/guilds and communicate, etc.

That will called Guld LB .
When the unintelligence minority of the forums with their sucky propositions such as : ‘’change the the rewards based on win or loose’’
> changed the friendliness and the casuallity behavour we had ingame in the past
with:
> the ‘’competiveness and the atrocious e-sport behavour ’’ of each random player that is pointing the finger to the other player
> ofc no team will be creeated or even look at chat to communicate or even speak …

That why Guild LB and finding friends from insde of your casual PvE+WvWvW guild is a better idea …
More teams will be formed and will stay alive …

Nice Sig :P

Nabrok.9023:

If we also get build templates, it’s not a big deal.

Build templates do not solve the main issue, I find MOBAs boring as hell, and this looks MOBAish to an extent, so other than initially trying Stronghold just for the novelty of it, in all likelyhood I will not want to play it regularly, if it is in the same queue and I cannot avoid it, I will not even bother buying the expansion as the game will be unplayable for me.

Eylia.2485:

@feight.2704

Then go queue for Conquest but let us play Stronghold in peace.

lol , rather, go play stronghold in peace in custom arenas
let me play my mixed pool in peace. i want to play all the game modes all the time cuzz….
i paid for it .

feight.2704:

Eylia.2485:

@feight.2704

Then go queue for Conquest but let us play Stronghold in peace.

lol , rather, go play stronghold in peace in custom arenas
let me play my mixed pool in peace. i want to play all the game modes all the time cuzz….
i paid for it .

Difference is that YOU’d have the choice, you. I won’t because of their system.

Throwing in my comments as well.

• Needs separate queue with separate rewards more like what you get from activities. Maybe not even accessible through Heart of the Mists, put an entrance in Lion’s Arch.
• If it is included in rotation, we NEED build templates. This would make people play courtyard and skyhammer more as well.

But if you put it in a rotation, it will die. People trying to play competitively will avoid it because they are built for conquest, people trying to play stronghold will be sad because they have to put up with the people constantly trying not to play it or who just leave as soon as it comes up.

Colin said it’s his favorite thing to do right now. Shouldn’t that alone be an indication that putting it in a rotation is a really bad idea?