Guild Wars 2

mmorpg is actually more a genre about character’s growth than skill.
People want to feel that they are growing…also if that it’s just a feeling, as mobs upscale with dps, armor, etc. on an endless hamster wheel.

What makes me smile is that the same people who want to make their chars grow with BiS (and perhaps would leave the game without a long term goal which cause an increase in a parameter, as ascended) are often the same vocal people who ask casuals to give up and go somewhere else, because their “lack of skills”.

simply because they know that just playing more time than the others provide them the sufficient advantage to win (or at least, as reward, the access to specific contents who lead to even more evident performance improvement, which is not for everyone)…a psychological trick to demonstrate themselves that they are actually better than who simply has not enough time to achieve the best gear available.

PopeUrban.2578:

Astralporing.1957:

MissKitty.9054:

I think people are missing the point of what the raid is about. people in dungeons have been isolating people who want to be tank/support/healer in the group by kicking them then whispering them “go get your zerker armor scrub” or something demening like that. personally when I watch the LFG I see more post about Zerker lvl 80s only then Lvl 80s only groups. the raid i see it will bring more ppl out of the dark(tank/support/healers) an in to the light, so everyone can be appart of something. ofc the change is hard for ppl an most ppl dont like change at all.

Have you actually seen that last encounter? DPS is the key, you are not going to kill that boss if you exchange your precious zerkers for some healers or tanks that not only aren’t needed, but also increase your chance of failing the enrage timer check.

It’s still “go get your zerker/sinister gear scrub” but this time it is improved to “get your ascended zerker gear”.

To kill a trash miniboss.

In an untested raid.

That may be significantly overhauled due to the fact people actually zerked it in BWE-supplied exotics

bwe supplied ascended. everyone in the group had full access to full ascended in the stat of their choices via an npc in the dungeon.

Windsagio.1340:

fun dev note from the dev that started this whole brouhaha;

It’s recommended, not required. The first Vale Guardian kill over the weekend had over 1:00 left to the enrage. Skill and builds are going to be the bigger factor in the success of your raid.

So yeah, what we’re saying. Skills and build are more important than arbitrary gear.

Obviously skills and builds is the most important factor.

That doesnt change that what happened completely supports her statement that a mix of ascended and exotic is reccomended for the first raid.

Best of the best teams, in full ascended after trying for 2-3 hours were able to beat the easiest(1st you fight ever) boss with 9/10 berserker with only a minute left (roughly 15% time)
You really think regular players will be able to beat the whole raid in gear that provides substantially less dps and survivability? Needing maybe 2 non zerk to survive?

Sounds like not going in with the right ascended will be highly ill advised for the first raid, which is exactly what the dev suggested in her tweet.

Yes, because ‘recommended’ is so wishy-washy.

I recommend that you give me $3.75 to take the BART home.

~~~

They had one day to get the encounter down. Do you really think they were even close to max play efficiency?

It’s a question of tuning. If they tune to the degree needed for ascended to actually matter, they’re excluding far too much of their customer base.

Windsagio.1340:

Yes, because ‘recommended’ is so wishy-washy.

I recommend that you give me $3.75 to take the BART home.

~~~

They had one day to get the encounter down. Do you really think they were even close to max play efficiency?

It’s a question of tuning. If they tune to the degree needed for ascended to actually matter, they’re excluding far too much of their customer base.

reccomended is never balanced around max player effeciency.

its the reccomended requirements for most players not to have a problem.

like reccomended pc requirements to play this game are not based on the best PC possible.

best people who tried needing 8-9 zerkers to beat the FIRST MINIBOSS and 2.5-3 hours with full ascended means ascended is reccomended, and most people will have disproportionate difficulty trying to do it without it.
keep in mind the vast majority of players in full ascended failed. In fact i would say players were below her expectations in terms of expected dps. Looks like anyone with less zerkers is almost guaranteed to fail if not in ascended. 8/10 to 9/10 zerker is on the higher teir of difficulty to complete. That type of team should have obliterated the time requirement if ascended wasnt reccomended

imagine in a dif game they swapped a healer for a dps, those guys should be 10% faster just by having the extra dps alone. (even though the fight has less room for error defensively)

so far she is completely on point with her statement.

phys.7689:

Windsagio.1340:

fun dev note from the dev that started this whole brouhaha;

It’s recommended, not required. The first Vale Guardian kill over the weekend had over 1:00 left to the enrage. Skill and builds are going to be the bigger factor in the success of your raid.

So yeah, what we’re saying. Skills and build are more important than arbitrary gear.

Obviously skills and builds is the most important factor.

That doesnt change that what happened completely supports her statement that a mix of ascended and exotic is reccomended for the first raid.

Best of the best teams, in full ascended after trying for 2-3 hours were able to beat the easiest(1st you fight ever) boss with 9/10 berserker with only a minute left (roughly 15% time)
You really think regular players will be able to beat the whole raid in gear that provides substantially less dps and survivability? Needing maybe 2 non zerk to survive?

Sounds like not going in with the right ascended will be highly ill advised for the first raid, which is exactly what the dev suggested in her tweet.

As is expected with very challenging content as has happened before.

Not enough time was available for a lot of people to properly test the raid.

Once the strategy is provided, and fine-tuned, to what the precise mechanics are, including which roles are necessary (not the same as classes), then others will likely start completing it as well.

Ascended gear does not provide nearly as much of a DPS increase as a highly skilled group coordinating their rotations with each other would.

Ayrilana.1396:

phys.7689:

Windsagio.1340:

fun dev note from the dev that started this whole brouhaha;

It’s recommended, not required. The first Vale Guardian kill over the weekend had over 1:00 left to the enrage. Skill and builds are going to be the bigger factor in the success of your raid.

So yeah, what we’re saying. Skills and build are more important than arbitrary gear.

Obviously skills and builds is the most important factor.

That doesnt change that what happened completely supports her statement that a mix of ascended and exotic is reccomended for the first raid.

Best of the best teams, in full ascended after trying for 2-3 hours were able to beat the easiest(1st you fight ever) boss with 9/10 berserker with only a minute left (roughly 15% time)
You really think regular players will be able to beat the whole raid in gear that provides substantially less dps and survivability? Needing maybe 2 non zerk to survive?

Sounds like not going in with the right ascended will be highly ill advised for the first raid, which is exactly what the dev suggested in her tweet.

As is expected with very challenging content as has happened before.

Not enough time was available for a lot of people to properly test the raid.

Once the strategy is provided, and fine-tuned, to what the precise mechanics are, including which roles are necessary (not the same as classes), then others will likely start completing it as well.

Ascended gear does not provide nearly as much of a DPS increase as a highly skilled group coordinating their rotations with each other would.

no one said it does, but the most effecient player is never the benchmark for a reccomendation.
basically a reccomendation is based on the lower teir of the expected range.

If you expect a range of 7star to 10 star players to be able to succeed, the reccomendations are based on what the 7star team needs, not the 10star team.

IE the reccomended requirements are not based on the most exceptional players/teams.

They could say they reccomend exotics, but that would be a lie, not many players will be able to beat this content in exotics

Recommended is fair enough. It drops Legendary armor of the Ascended tier. Once you got that, you are pretty much set. A set of armor that can swap stats at will. Now they just need to make a system that lets you collect and unlock (e.g., buy and slot) Runes/Sigils for individual Legendary items, so that you can actually swap these things too. It’s not that hard to make Ascended sets mind you. I’ve made three different ones for my Mesmer. Didn’t take forever, and if I wanted other stats combinations, I would have had plenty more by now.

A few streams of the Raid test showed people playing highly inefficient too, having high DPS melee players move to the “field” in order to avoid the AoE that wipes pretty much everyone, instead of ranged alternatives. People not dodging the teleports. Starting a phase in the wrong spot. There were several things that could be optimized. There were a distinct lack of Quickness and Alacrity in some of these raids too, two things that can really improve on damage over time—when combined. Most people were slow on the Breakbar as well, at the very least on one of the splits.

I am fairly certain a good group in Exotics can overcome the raids. Ascended is better, but not vastly so. Yes, you can min-max through +5 Stats Infusions (and I have, Versatile (Omni) ones for my Defensive slots included), and sure, it does make a difference. But I doubt it will be required. Unless they put Agony in there.

Windsagio.1340:

Yes, because ‘recommended’ is so wishy-washy.

I recommend that you give me $3.75 to take the BART home.

~~~

They had one day to get the encounter down. Do you really think they were even close to max play efficiency?

It’s a question of tuning. If they tune to the degree needed for ascended to actually matter, they’re excluding far too much of their customer base.

Exactly.

One day of exposure to the encounter pretty much guarantees that they weren’t operating at top form.

BART, hmm? Hello fellow Bay Area-ite.

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

phys.7689:

Windsagio.1340:

fun dev note from the dev that started this whole brouhaha;

It’s recommended, not required. The first Vale Guardian kill over the weekend had over 1:00 left to the enrage. Skill and builds are going to be the bigger factor in the success of your raid.

So yeah, what we’re saying. Skills and build are more important than arbitrary gear.

Obviously skills and builds is the most important factor.

That doesnt change that what happened completely supports her statement that a mix of ascended and exotic is reccomended for the first raid.

Best of the best teams, in full ascended after trying for 2-3 hours were able to beat the easiest(1st you fight ever) boss with 9/10 berserker with only a minute left (roughly 15% time)
You really think regular players will be able to beat the whole raid in gear that provides substantially less dps and survivability? Needing maybe 2 non zerk to survive?

Sounds like not going in with the right ascended will be highly ill advised for the first raid, which is exactly what the dev suggested in her tweet.

As is expected with very challenging content as has happened before.

Not enough time was available for a lot of people to properly test the raid.

Once the strategy is provided, and fine-tuned, to what the precise mechanics are, including which roles are necessary (not the same as classes), then others will likely start completing it as well.

Ascended gear does not provide nearly as much of a DPS increase as a highly skilled group coordinating their rotations with each other would.

no one said it does, but the most effecient player is never the benchmark for a reccomendation.
basically a reccomendation is based on the lower teir of the expected range.

If you expect a range of 7star to 10 star players to be able to succeed, the reccomendations are based on what the 7star team needs, not the 10star team.

IE the reccomended requirements are not based on the most exceptional players/teams.

They could say they reccomend exotics, but that would be a lie, not many players will be able to beat this content in exotics

How are you so sure it’s for the most efficient players (the benchmark)? We had less than a day to properly test the raid and you’re already making assumptions based off what a few successful teams had.

If we had all new players, who knew the basic strategy about SW, and were in full ascended, who beat both breach and VW with seconds to spare, you’d be claiming that the only way to win would be because we needed ascended and it was tuned to that. We all know it’s very different.

As in the above example, there’s more to an encounter than gear. You’re assuming that the groups were the most optimal when they were not. How far from optimal is still unknown. This is also supposed to be very challenging content as well.

More fuel for the ‘We don’t know the encounter yet’ argument, from the dungeon/raid forum:

Takoyakii.2146:

Seem like nobody can’t use it because mastery point is bugged and can’t be obtain more than2 points .

Speed mushroom will increase attackspeed too.Should help with dps a bit

So there’s apparently a mastery linked buff mechanic that’s not even being used in those clears ><

You take 1,988 dmg from Magic Aura
You take 1,821 dmg from Magic Aura
You take 1,904 dmg from Magic Aura
You take 2,205 dmg from Magic Aura
You take 1,861 dmg from Magic Aura
You take 2,102 dmg from Magic Aura

OMGOMGOMOGMGOMGOMG My ele only has 11645 hp…..

Nike.2631:

I think the thing I love best about this thread is that in the time it’s been running you could have MADE a piece of exotic armor and be well on your way to having a weapon done too if it uses wood. I haven’t bothered with final assembly, but I’ve made all the time gated mats for my gloves while following the drama. Just need helm and shoulders and one more weapon.

6 armor slots and 2-4 weapons. It just NOT that high a level of expectation from most people planning to be playing for a year or more.

What if you will need two, or even three different sets for the entire raid?

PopeUrban.2578:

Astralporing.1957:

MissKitty.9054:

I think people are missing the point of what the raid is about. people in dungeons have been isolating people who want to be tank/support/healer in the group by kicking them then whispering them “go get your zerker armor scrub” or something demening like that. personally when I watch the LFG I see more post about Zerker lvl 80s only then Lvl 80s only groups. the raid i see it will bring more ppl out of the dark(tank/support/healers) an in to the light, so everyone can be appart of something. ofc the change is hard for ppl an most ppl dont like change at all.

Have you actually seen that last encounter? DPS is the key, you are not going to kill that boss if you exchange your precious zerkers for some healers or tanks that not only aren’t needed, but also increase your chance of failing the enrage timer check.

It’s still “go get your zerker/sinister gear scrub” but this time it is improved to “get your ascended zerker gear”.

To kill a trash miniboss.

In an untested raid.

That may be significantly overhauled due to the fact people actually zerked it in BWE-supplied exotics

If zerker is only for Trash encounters, how man sets of ascended gear will we need?

symke.3105:

Nike.2631:

I think the thing I love best about this thread is that in the time it’s been running you could have MADE a piece of exotic armor and be well on your way to having a weapon done too if it uses wood. I haven’t bothered with final assembly, but I’ve made all the time gated mats for my gloves while following the drama. Just need helm and shoulders and one more weapon.

6 armor slots and 2-4 weapons. It just NOT that high a level of expectation from most people planning to be playing for a year or more.

What if you will need two, or even three different sets for the entire raid?

…I’ll cheer that they came up with something so inventive and demanding it not only requires some roles-distinction but it requires swapping those roles between bosses?

Nike.2631:

symke.3105:

Nike.2631:

I think the thing I love best about this thread is that in the time it’s been running you could have MADE a piece of exotic armor and be well on your way to having a weapon done too if it uses wood. I haven’t bothered with final assembly, but I’ve made all the time gated mats for my gloves while following the drama. Just need helm and shoulders and one more weapon.

6 armor slots and 2-4 weapons. It just NOT that high a level of expectation from most people planning to be playing for a year or more.

What if you will need two, or even three different sets for the entire raid?

…I’ll cheer that they came up with something so inventive and demanding it not only requires some roles-distinction but it requires swapping those roles between bosses?

The question is what does ascended add to that? Just a bit more exclusivity?

Windsagio.1340:

Nike.2631:

symke.3105:

Nike.2631:

I think the thing I love best about this thread is that in the time it’s been running you could have MADE a piece of exotic armor and be well on your way to having a weapon done too if it uses wood. I haven’t bothered with final assembly, but I’ve made all the time gated mats for my gloves while following the drama. Just need helm and shoulders and one more weapon.

6 armor slots and 2-4 weapons. It just NOT that high a level of expectation from most people planning to be playing for a year or more.

What if you will need two, or even three different sets for the entire raid?

…I’ll cheer that they came up with something so inventive and demanding it not only requires some roles-distinction but it requires swapping those roles between bosses?

The question is what does ascended add to that? Just a bit more exclusivity?

Lets be honest, Ascended Armour gives you +20 Primary Stat and +16 to Secondary Stats – this is EXTREMELY unlikely to be the difference between a win and loss. You can very easily use exotic armour with the rune set you desire paired with Ascended Trinkets etc to change build.

People thinking “oh you need Ascended thats such a gear barrier” are not actually looking at what they gain from it… Or being deliberately misleading…

Coulter.2315:

Windsagio.1340:

Nike.2631:

symke.3105:

Nike.2631:

I think the thing I love best about this thread is that in the time it’s been running you could have MADE a piece of exotic armor and be well on your way to having a weapon done too if it uses wood. I haven’t bothered with final assembly, but I’ve made all the time gated mats for my gloves while following the drama. Just need helm and shoulders and one more weapon.

6 armor slots and 2-4 weapons. It just NOT that high a level of expectation from most people planning to be playing for a year or more.

What if you will need two, or even three different sets for the entire raid?

…I’ll cheer that they came up with something so inventive and demanding it not only requires some roles-distinction but it requires swapping those roles between bosses?

The question is what does ascended add to that? Just a bit more exclusivity?

Lets be honest, Ascended Armour gives you +20 Primary Stat and +16 to Secondary Stats – this is EXTREMELY unlikely to be the difference between a win and loss. You can very easily use exotic armour with the rune set you desire paired with Ascended Trinkets etc to change build.

People thinking “oh you need Ascended thats such a gear barrier” are not actually looking at what they gain from it… Or being deliberately misleading…

It’s the same people that shake their fists while screaming “MANIFESTO!!”

Draknar.5748:

Coulter.2315:

Windsagio.1340:

Nike.2631:

symke.3105:

Nike.2631:

I think the thing I love best about this thread is that in the time it’s been running you could have MADE a piece of exotic armor and be well on your way to having a weapon done too if it uses wood. I haven’t bothered with final assembly, but I’ve made all the time gated mats for my gloves while following the drama. Just need helm and shoulders and one more weapon.

6 armor slots and 2-4 weapons. It just NOT that high a level of expectation from most people planning to be playing for a year or more.

What if you will need two, or even three different sets for the entire raid?

…I’ll cheer that they came up with something so inventive and demanding it not only requires some roles-distinction but it requires swapping those roles between bosses?

The question is what does ascended add to that? Just a bit more exclusivity?

Lets be honest, Ascended Armour gives you +20 Primary Stat and +16 to Secondary Stats – this is EXTREMELY unlikely to be the difference between a win and loss. You can very easily use exotic armour with the rune set you desire paired with Ascended Trinkets etc to change build.

People thinking “oh you need Ascended thats such a gear barrier” are not actually looking at what they gain from it… Or being deliberately misleading…

It’s the same people that shake their fists while screaming “MANIFESTO!!”

Yeah. I agree that ascended won’t give players as much of an advantage as some claim.

So tempted to create a GIF for that.

EDIT: And done.

http://im.ezgif.com/tmp/ezgif-1289267125.gif

Since this raid is far away from being challenging, you won’t need asc gear, so please no “OMG, gear grind!!!”.

Finding people that don’t suck will matter more, like it has always been…

Coulter.2315:

Windsagio.1340:

Nike.2631:

symke.3105:

Nike.2631:

I think the thing I love best about this thread is that in the time it’s been running you could have MADE a piece of exotic armor and be well on your way to having a weapon done too if it uses wood. I haven’t bothered with final assembly, but I’ve made all the time gated mats for my gloves while following the drama. Just need helm and shoulders and one more weapon.

6 armor slots and 2-4 weapons. It just NOT that high a level of expectation from most people planning to be playing for a year or more.

What if you will need two, or even three different sets for the entire raid?

…I’ll cheer that they came up with something so inventive and demanding it not only requires some roles-distinction but it requires swapping those roles between bosses?

The question is what does ascended add to that? Just a bit more exclusivity?

Lets be honest, Ascended Armour gives you +20 Primary Stat and +16 to Secondary Stats – this is EXTREMELY unlikely to be the difference between a win and loss. You can very easily use exotic armour with the rune set you desire paired with Ascended Trinkets etc to change build.

People thinking “oh you need Ascended thats such a gear barrier” are not actually looking at what they gain from it… Or being deliberately misleading…

Well, I agree with you. My point is that although not as many, there’s a group of people that’s just as excited about this supposed gear barrier as are against it. With that in mind, I’m trying to find out why that would be the case. What does the gear barrier help (especially, as you noted, while we’re within this 2-5% range)?

If ascended has a reason to exist, enough for someone to spend time and resources to craft it and to anet to receive a lot of whines and go against what previously stated, it’s true also the opposite, that someone may dislike it so much for the same reason: because it’ BiS and gives a small but existent increase in stats.

and again, agony res is not negligible.
and again, it’s a long, long grind that you cannot avoid, just as agony, as you have to craft it and cannot drop it or obtain in other ways.

Kevan.8912:

If ascended has a reason to exist, enough for someone to spend time and resources to craft it and to anet to receive a lot of whines and go against what previously stated, it’s true also the opposite, that someone may dislike it so much for the same reason: because it’ BiS and gives a small but existent increase in stats.

and again, agony res is not negligible.
and again, it’s a long, long grind that you cannot avoid, just as agony, as you have to craft it and cannot drop it or obtain in other ways.

Umm, actually you can get ascended gear and weapons as drops in fractals and from world bosses.

Arlee.7038:

Kevan.8912:

If ascended has a reason to exist, enough for someone to spend time and resources to craft it and to anet to receive a lot of whines and go against what previously stated, it’s true also the opposite, that someone may dislike it so much for the same reason: because it’ BiS and gives a small but existent increase in stats.

and again, agony res is not negligible.
and again, it’s a long, long grind that you cannot avoid, just as agony, as you have to craft it and cannot drop it or obtain in other ways.

Umm, actually you can get ascended gear and weapons as drops in fractals and from world bosses.

A negligible droprate of a random piece. Never dropped one in many, many months of world bosses and 10-15lvl fract. Not so efficient to do a full ascended set with desired stats.

Windsagio.1340:

Coulter.2315:

Windsagio.1340:

Nike.2631:

symke.3105:

Nike.2631:

I think the thing I love best about this thread is that in the time it’s been running you could have MADE a piece of exotic armor and be well on your way to having a weapon done too if it uses wood. I haven’t bothered with final assembly, but I’ve made all the time gated mats for my gloves while following the drama. Just need helm and shoulders and one more weapon.

6 armor slots and 2-4 weapons. It just NOT that high a level of expectation from most people planning to be playing for a year or more.

What if you will need two, or even three different sets for the entire raid?

…I’ll cheer that they came up with something so inventive and demanding it not only requires some roles-distinction but it requires swapping those roles between bosses?

The question is what does ascended add to that? Just a bit more exclusivity?

Lets be honest, Ascended Armour gives you +20 Primary Stat and +16 to Secondary Stats – this is EXTREMELY unlikely to be the difference between a win and loss. You can very easily use exotic armour with the rune set you desire paired with Ascended Trinkets etc to change build.

People thinking “oh you need Ascended thats such a gear barrier” are not actually looking at what they gain from it… Or being deliberately misleading…

Well, I agree with you. My point is that although not as many, there’s a group of people that’s just as excited about this supposed gear barrier as are against it. With that in mind, I’m trying to find out why that would be the case. What does the gear barrier help (especially, as you noted, while we’re within this 2-5% range)?

Exactly you have 2 groups of “misguided individuals”; one group thinks there is a gear barrier and its bad, the other thinks there is a gear barrier and its good.

There is no gear barrier.

Kevan.8912:

Arlee.7038:

Kevan.8912:

If ascended has a reason to exist, enough for someone to spend time and resources to craft it and to anet to receive a lot of whines and go against what previously stated, it’s true also the opposite, that someone may dislike it so much for the same reason: because it’ BiS and gives a small but existent increase in stats.

and again, agony res is not negligible.
and again, it’s a long, long grind that you cannot avoid, just as agony, as you have to craft it and cannot drop it or obtain in other ways.

Umm, actually you can get ascended gear and weapons as drops in fractals and from world bosses.

A negligible droprate of a random piece. Never dropped one in many, many months of world bosses and 10-15lvl fract. Not so efficient to do a full ascended set with desired stats.

Which is still different than “cannot drop it or obtain in other ways”.

And yea… if you want to have higher chance of getting them from fractals you have to do higher level ones. You can pretty easily get Ascended Rings, Amulets, Accessories, and backs from a variety of means. Which gives you a solid basis for agony resist. Then it’s pretty easy to infuse them which enables you to have even more agony resist, thus allowing even higher level fractels to be done for increased chances, all without getting a single piece of armor or weapons.

Also the “desired stats” bit is pretty much moot now because you can change the stats on ascended gear. So even if you don’t get a drop with stats you want, you can change them.

Explain in what kind of “misguidance” am I falling that AR has already excluded me from pve endgame in fotm?

Kevan.8912:

Explain in what kind of “misguidance” am I falling that AR has already excluded me from pve endgame in fotm?

Raids don’t have agony in them, NEXT!

Coulter.2315:

Exactly you have 2 groups of “misguided individuals”; one group thinks there is a gear barrier and its bad, the other thinks there is a gear barrier and its good.

There is no gear barrier.

And only 0.1% of the people in this thread have realized this.

Ascended gear would be a real pain for those who like multi-classing…

Avster.1935:

Ascended gear would be a real pain for those who like multi-classing…

You gain +20 Primary Stat and +16 Secondary Stats from Ascended Armour – just skip it… It is EXTREMELY unlikely to be the difference between win and loss.

You will not need Ascended Armour.

Avster.1935:

Ascended gear would be a real pain for those who like multi-classing…

Weapon + Trinkets make up by far most of the ascended advantage. Also ascended gear is tradeable. It truly won’t be that bad. I’m personally of the opinion that I wish they brought the PVP style gearing over to the raids, but that’s me Just let me swap this and that, ok lets go

I don’t get what people complaining about ascended gear are complaining about. 1. It’s only a small increase in stats mainly from trinkets and weapons. 2. It’s really not that hard or Long to get as some have claimed (114 days or so is just not true) unless you decide not to do any kind of challenging pve other than grinding world bosses and crafting. Come on you can get ascended armor and weapon drops from high lvl fractals, and to do fractal 49 you don’t even need 1 piece of ascended armor, just trinkets and a weapon. If you haven’t done to some extend or have no interest in fractals the past 3 years who are you to be complaining about raids? Raids will be harder than fractals FYI if fractals wasn’t your thing raids probably won’t be either. 3. Even if you don’t do fractals Its still so easy to get at least ascended trinkets and a weapon or 2, than just mix in exotic armor, the armor itself doesn’t give a significant increase anyways. It’s won’t even take that Long probably 1 to 1.5 weeks tops? If you have done even lower lvl fractals any above 10 you will also get ascended trinkets. Again raids will be harder than fractals, if you haven’t even done fractals above 10 I don’t think you should be complaining about raids. 4. Raids are not for people who just grind gold from world bosses or farm silver waste 90% of their game time, raids are not for everybody, they are gw2’s endgame content. If you think you are entitled to have raids served to you on a platter you are being ridiculous. However for most people if you have at least attempted to casually do fractals above 10 you will have at least a few ascended trinkets and you can fill in the gaps with pristine relics. 5. Those saying you will need multiple ascended sets or for different instances, I just wanna ask how do you know? You can simply bring 2 exotic sets and a main ascended set for the challenging parts. For example bringing zerker exotic for trash mobs. Tldr: If you complain about ascended you probably have not done much pve in gw2 or are totally new to the game, which means you shouldn’t be complaining. Seriously ascended is no big deal, I myself have only 3 ascended armor pieces crafted which took 12 days to get 12 bolts of damask and about 70 gold in all. Trinkets and stuff from fractals or guild commendations. I’m casual but I do my fair share of pve and I work to do more challenging content. Don’t expect raids to just be handed to you on a plate so you can get your tasty raid rewards. It’s insulting to other pvers who actually put in effort.

Coulter.2315:

Avster.1935:

Ascended gear would be a real pain for those who like multi-classing…

You gain +20 Primary Stat and +16 Secondary Stats from Ascended Armour – just skip it… It is EXTREMELY unlikely to be the difference between win and loss.

You will not need Ascended Armour.

So if not important, anet should just make ascended gear just a skin.
And let infuse and use AR also on exotics. Nobody would complain, right?
Why those who whined to have a progression beyond exo (and so bought a game as it was,then complained asking it to become something it wasn’t) should be more logical and reasonable than who didn’t want it (and bought because of it, exactly because there WASN’T nor raids nor hard-to-acquire BiS)?

But if there is no difference, why did they bother to implement it and kitten off a part of users..?

Come on ascended is not hard to get, I’ve gotten ascended from dungeon drops, from pvp chest, from fractals. I’ve only nvr gotten it from world bosses because I don’t do any of them. They are practically thrown in your face! Why are people complaining about it! If you don’t even have 1 ascended piece you probably are new or haven’t been playing the game.

At the end of the day, Raid groups will require people to be wearing Ascended to take part regardless of the recommendations. It happens in every game.

Unless you find a laid back group, or are in good standing with your guild or find a group that doesn’t care, the max possible min/max stats will become a requirement.

Kevan.8912:

Coulter.2315:

Avster.1935:

Ascended gear would be a real pain for those who like multi-classing…

You gain +20 Primary Stat and +16 Secondary Stats from Ascended Armour – just skip it… It is EXTREMELY unlikely to be the difference between win and loss.

You will not need Ascended Armour.

So if not important, anet should just make ascended gear just a skin.
And let infuse and use AR also on exotics. Nobody would complain, right?
Why those who whined to have a progression beyond exo (and so bought a game as it was,then complained asking it to become something it wasn’t) should be more logical and reasonable than who didn’t want it (and bought because of it, exactly because there WASN’T nor raids nor hard-to-acquire BiS)?

But if there is no difference, why did they bother to implement it and kitten off a part of users..?

They implemented it because people instantly got Exotics (faster than the devs expected, I think) and they saw a sharp decrease in people logging in and the posts on forums “no end game or anything to go for after hitting 80!” The devs response was Ascended Gear and Fractals.

Regardless they are not requirements as I stated +20 Primary Stat and +16 Secondary Stats for full Ascended Armour (the main source of expense). If you don’t have and will not get you are not suffering much – so stop pretending its an issue (notice you already dropped “Ascended needed” for “why is it there?”).

You have lost the argument.

Coulter.2315:

Avster.1935:

Ascended gear would be a real pain for those who like multi-classing…

You gain +20 Primary Stat and +16 Secondary Stats from Ascended Armour – just skip it… It is EXTREMELY unlikely to be the difference between win and loss.

You will not need Ascended Armour.

I didn’t bother reading this humongo thread because this is what I basically thought as well. IIRC, ascended armor made like 1-3% difference for a power build and less than 1% for a condi build. If this is true, I have to wonder what the uproar is about.

Weapons are arguably worth making but are easy enough to obtain.

You gain +20 Primary Stat and +16 Secondary Stats from Ascended Armour – just skip it… It is EXTREMELY unlikely to be the difference between win and loss.

You will not need Ascended Armour.

So you would have no problems going into a raid with a group of mostly Exotic-wearing players? You would not have any sort of “gear check” before entering?

The question is not whether or not Ascended will actually be required by the content’s design, it’s about whether or not human nature will demand it of the players.

Ohoni.6057:

You gain +20 Primary Stat and +16 Secondary Stats from Ascended Armour – just skip it… It is EXTREMELY unlikely to be the difference between win and loss.

You will not need Ascended Armour.

So you would have no problems going into a raid with a group of mostly Exotic-wearing players? You would not have any sort of “gear check” before entering?

The question is not whether or not Ascended will actually be required by the content’s design, it’s about whether or not human nature will demand it of the players.

Given that people demand ‘meta’, I expect it to be an issue. A cultural issue.

Idiot dev’s shooting off their mouths on sensitive subjects (whether or not the end up retracting, as they did in this case) do not help the situation one bit.

We asked for challenging content, we got challenging content, this isn’t for the casual audience to cry it into submission like everything else in this game. With how arbitrary it is to get ascended gear, no one should really complain. We’ve had 3-2-1 years to get something better than exotic but we still have people playing devil’s advocate about calling THAT a gear grind. That’s a joke. If you still complain “its so much gold” my response is, really? You complain about gold, a game that lets you make gold literally by having to logging for 1 minute a day, caters to whatever play style you want to reward your character to potentially get virtually almost ANY stat combination by playing dungeons (while earning money). By doing this and still earning something. The people who are saying 5% difference is nothing but between 10 people its a 50% difference collectively but…that 1-2% extra damage (per person) can be 10-20% more damage effectively. I ask myself, why do I waste my time coming on these forums when I hear the same mercurial rhetoric over and over again, it does no good. I can only pray to the ANET gods they don’t nerf this like everything else in the game because there is a requirement to actually do something in the game and BE half-way decent at this game, good god cry to the masses, I have to WORK to do something (this is a MMO…). I demand free compensation for my loss in time! Goodness sake, I NEED A REFUND! You’ve changed so much, you went back on your word even though all those other QoL+updates to the game have been ever so helpful to the games future! I don’t pay a sub fee but I DEMAND my $50 dollars back! AND gem money fee. <—-That’s how the majority this thread sounds like.

Brimstar.9036:

The people who are saying 5% difference is nothing but between 10 people its a 50% difference collectively but…that 1-2% extra damage (per person) can be 10-20% more damage effectively.

Before you decide to have a hernia over math, you should first make sure your math is correct.

Leodon.1564:

Brimstar.9036:

The people who are saying 5% difference is nothing but between 10 people its a 50% difference collectively but…that 1-2% extra damage (per person) can be 10-20% more damage effectively.

Before you decide to have a hernia over math, you should first make sure your math is correct.

Truth. Here is math in real life.

1% of 100 is 1

100 * 10 is 1000

1 * 10 is 10

1% of 1000 is 10

a 1% buff times 10 people is still a 1% buff.

a 1% buff times a billion people is stilla 1% buff._

Brimstar.9036:

The people who are saying 5% difference is nothing but between 10 people its a 50% difference collectively

Wait… wait…

So if Anet nerfs damage across the board by 30%, does that mean a party of players are doing -150% damage collectively? Wouldn’t that be considered healing the enemy?

Oh! If they’re in a raid, that’s -300% damage collectively.

Moral of the story: the percentages do not stack.

I think this whole discussion comes down to closed thinking.

People associate progression gear with ‘hard’ and raids, so they think progression gear == actual difficult content.

Ohoni.6057:

You gain +20 Primary Stat and +16 Secondary Stats from Ascended Armour – just skip it… It is EXTREMELY unlikely to be the difference between win and loss.

You will not need Ascended Armour.

So you would have no problems going into a raid with a group of mostly Exotic-wearing players? You would not have any sort of “gear check” before entering?

The question is not whether or not Ascended will actually be required by the content’s design, it’s about whether or not human nature will demand it of the players.

Ohoni I have friends… You should maybe stop trying to get everything for free on forums by complaining and go make some in game.

Brimstar.9036:

The people who are saying 5% difference is nothing but between 10 people its a 50% difference collectively but…that 1-2% extra damage (per person) can be 10-20% more damage effectively.

Sry but your Math is really flawed.

As an Example. We have a Full Exo Group where a single Person is dealing 100 DPS. Thats a total of 1000 DPS in a 10 Man Raid with everyone dealing this 100 DPS. Now with Ascended everyone would do 5% more Damage. So 105 DPS for a single Person = 1050 DPS for a 10 Man Raid. Still 5%

Windsagio.1340:

I think this whole discussion comes down to closed thinking.

People associate progression gear with ‘hard’ and raids, so they think progression gear == actual difficult content.

That’s because most people that ask for a difficult content do not really want it to be difficult. They want it restricted. Preferably in a way that will limit access to everyone except them and their friends.

Coulter.2315:

You should maybe stop trying to get everything for free

You should maybe stop claiming what you already know is not true. We’re not asking for anything for free.
But of course claiming that we do may seem like a better argument for you.

sicsempertyrannis.3510:

Wetpaw.3487:

Change is hard, and nobody is forced to raid in HoT. My perspective GW2 is going in the right direction with specializations, healing, and raids.

If you want a WoW clone, go play FFXIV. Stop pushing the devs to make this game into your amusement park. The original vision for this game is eroding so rapidly, much of it thanks to people begging for more of the same MMO tropes.

Thats a rude comment to make

Knighthonor.4061:

sicsempertyrannis.3510:

Wetpaw.3487:

Change is hard, and nobody is forced to raid in HoT. My perspective GW2 is going in the right direction with specializations, healing, and raids.

If you want a WoW clone, go play FFXIV. Stop pushing the devs to make this game into your amusement park. The original vision for this game is eroding so rapidly, much of it thanks to people begging for more of the same MMO tropes.

Thats a rude comment to make

Well the WoW Clone Argument is mostly done by thos who even haven’t played WoW. GW2 and WoW both are totally different and yes that also means Raids. Have Raided in WoW and seen the Vale Guardian. It feels nothing like a WoW Raid Boss, the Combat Mechanics are too different for this.