Ascended Gear to be Required for Raids
So what exactly is it you want? The devs made raids. Ascended gear is recommended not compulsory. Even though it’s not compulsory you complain that human nature will make it a requirement. So you refuse to get ascended gear. You refuse to find friends willing to do it with you in exotic. You assume everyone is a kitten and will require you to have gear checks. What is it that you want? If you have a problem with everything and everyone than maybe you should ask yourself are you the problem. It’s a game! Raids have a difficulty which recommends ascended! Stop being a kitten about it, if you don’t want to get ascended gear, don’t get it! Find a group willing to take you in with exotic or get some friends, or don’t even do raids at all! Stop asking for change to suit your own wants. If it’s that bad just imagine the devs didn’t recommend ascended gear in the first place! Than you won’t have to worry about it. Pls don’t be a baby, you say you are not asking to have stuff given to you for free and yet you cannot adapt and work for what you want. Come on raids are not breastmilk! It’s carton milk you have to go to the supermarket to buy!
That’s because most people that ask for a difficult content do not really want it to be difficult. They want it restricted. Preferably in a way that will limit access to everyone except them and their friends.
Exactly.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
That’s because most people that ask for a difficult content do not really want it to be difficult. They want it restricted. Preferably in a way that will limit access to everyone except them and their friends.
Exactly.
Except the restriction comes from the difficulty not gear.. Full Ascended Armour grants +20 Primary Stat and +16 Secondary Stats – it will not be a barrier, people are jumping on this topic to try and frame the debate as exclusive and unfair without appreciating the FACTS.
Do not let people convince you that raids are out of reach of participation due to gear – they are lying to you for selfish gains (Ohoni just wants access to raid armour skins and weapon skins, he is not interested in a challenging and rewarding game mode existing).
Ascended Gear to be Required for Raids
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Astralporing.1957
Do not let people convince you that raids are out of reach of participation due to gear – they are lying to you for selfish gains (Ohoni just wants access to raid armour skins and weapon skins, he is not interested in a challenging and rewarding game mode existing).
Then why not give him the access to those skins, and keep the challenge for yourself? (and remember, content can be rewarding without those rewards being exclusive).
(and the restriction comes from many more things than just skill difficulty – in fact, it seems the skill difficulty is the least of concerns)
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Ascended Gear to be Required for Raids
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: TheRandomGuy.7246
Then why not give him the access to those skins, and keep the challenge for yourself?
Because those legendary skins are designed to be a raid reward duh.
grindind for BiS? nope. I just want it without insane effort.
It would be fine to have full ascended without grinding for months (and acquire without crafting, also).
grind for a legendary skin? fair to me, it was the same since the beginning.
grind for masteries? if few hours and nice events, fine. if slow and repetitive, no.
tough raids? good, assumed that i ve got the same gear and masteries the others have, so no “handicaps”.
until/if these things happens, i won’login again.
that’all. see you in some months.
(edited by Kevan.8912)
Except the restriction comes from the difficulty not gear.. Full Ascended Armour grants +20 Primary Stat and +16 Secondary Stats – it will not be a barrier, people are jumping on this topic to try and frame the debate as exclusive and unfair without appreciating the FACTS.
They could take steps to try and mitigate this though, for example by making Ascended armor more affordable so that it’s less of a divisive element, or perhaps by offering some consumable or something that would make up the " +20 Primary Stat and +16 Secondary Stats" difference, but only if you aren’t wearing Ascended?
I don’t know, I just see it as an issue that’s likely to cause more harm than good in its current state.
Because those legendary skins are designed to be a raid reward duh.
So? If there weren’t raids, they would give them out some other way. It’s not like raids are necessary for them to exist. I love when people try to justify why something happens in a certain way in a game with “because that’s the way it currently happens.”
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
They could take steps to try and mitigate this though, for example by making Ascended armor more affordable so that it’s less of a divisive element, or perhaps by offering some consumable or something that would make up the " +20 Primary Stat and +16 Secondary Stats" difference, but only if you aren’t wearing Ascended?
I don’t know, I just see it as an issue that’s likely to cause more harm than good in its current state.
I don’t know. I’m all for the diversification of source for ascended. Right now you can get them from Fractal fairly easy. It’s RNG, but the chance are high in fractal 50. I do fractal 50 almost each night and almost every nigh one person in the party get a chest and now they can put whatever stats they want on it. But other than that the RNG is so freaking low, that you can use any other ways to reliably get your armour/weapons. What I mean is the amount of effort need to get ascended armor/weapons is fine, but only for limited source. If you don’t do the right content you will have to buy a lot of the crafting material to craft them and if you don’t do fractal you can’t hope to get a full armor in drops.
In fractal, it should take you around around 55 fractal 50 to get a full armor and 1-2 weapons. That’s between 80 and 25 hours of content depending on you group. It should take around 50 hours of world boss, or of guild missions to get a full armor of ascended. For World Boss that mean 200 Worlds or around 3% chance to get armor chest by World Boss. For guild missions that should be around 30-40 Guild missions or around 15% chance to get a armor chest by guild missions.
That way. It’s still hard to get a full ascended armor. But it’s equally long for everybody regardless of what type of content you prefer. They can even lower a bit these number since guild missions and world boss are a bit more easy to get than Fractal 50. They could be like 2% chance for World Boss and 10% for guild missions.
So? If there weren’t raids, they would give them out some other way. It’s not like raids are necessary for them to exist. I love when people try to justify why something happens in a certain way in a game with “because that’s the way it currently happens.”
Well it depend. Like with ascended armor I don’t think that legendary armor should be limited to one type of content. It could need all the content so it’s really a legendary item that need you to do content in all modes. But that ship as sailed long time ago. Legendary weapons don’t need that from you and with the incoming glory being tradeable, it will clearly not be their plan for legendary armor. If you don’t need to do all content, then you should be able to do a wide variety of content to get it. A bit like ascended.
That sais. Exclusive skins are a very good concept. Legendary weapons ain’t the rarest thing to see on people. Triple Wurm and Fractal tonic have more a lot more prestige than anything else in the game. Someone having a full triple Wurm armor (3 pieces) is like someone with a badge of honor. You know what he did for that and he’s one of the few people to have it. So an exclusive raid skins give a bit of that prestige. It’s a cool feeling for the people that have it, a sense of pride. And it have a wow factor for other player. I was fascinating with people with legendary weapons at launch. It was so cool and I wanted to be like them lol. But some legendary skin being exclusive to raid, pvp, wvw, etc is something. Having legendary armor close behind raid exclusively is another thing.
Thaddeauz [xQCx]- QC GUILD
Ascended Gear to be Required for Raids
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419
So what exactly is it you want? The devs made raids. Ascended gear is recommended not compulsory. Even though it’s not compulsory you complain that human nature will make it a requirement. So you refuse to get ascended gear. You refuse to find friends willing to do it with you in exotic. You assume everyone is a kitten and will require you to have gear checks. What is it that you want? If you have a problem with everything and everyone than maybe you should ask yourself are you the problem. It’s a game! Raids have a difficulty which recommends ascended! Stop being a kitten about it, if you don’t want to get ascended gear, don’t get it! Find a group willing to take you in with exotic or get some friends, or don’t even do raids at all! Stop asking for change to suit your own wants. If it’s that bad just imagine the devs didn’t recommend ascended gear in the first place! Than you won’t have to worry about it. Pls don’t be a <pejorative deleted>, you say you are not asking to have stuff given to you for free and yet you cannot adapt and work for what you want. Come on raids are not breastmilk! It’s carton milk you have to go to the supermarket to buy!
We have raids in the first place because people complained. Also, 95% of the complaints about not being able to play a healer or tank in GW2 came from people who were unwilling to make their own groups for dungeons. And now we have some expanded necessity for healing and tanking.
To be fair, there is no difference between people expressing their preferences/voicing their concerns about raids and the people who expressed their preferences and got this content added in the first place.
Ascended Gear to be Required for Raids
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Astralporing.1957
Then why not give him the access to those skins, and keep the challenge for yourself?
Because those legendary skins are designed to be a raid reward duh.
So if they weren’t labeled as raid rewards, but were called by some other name it would be okay?
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
So people complaining want the raid reward skins for free? Lols this is just ridiculous, everyone and everything has a purpose in life. The raid reward skins were created to be raid rewards. If it would be given out for free it might as well not exist. So you want all skins to be available to everyone for free? I’m not one to complain, I’ve been pvping since the launch of gw2 and believe me it was not as rewarding as it is now.. Are you suggesting you want raids to have no rewards? How can challenging content be rewarding without an exclusive reward? It’s like the legendaries now the people have been complaining about, it’s not legendary if everyone and their Mom has one because people can buy it with gold. They shouldn’t have called the raid rewards legendaries than people wouldn’t complain so much, just call it raid rewards. And again what is with people saying ascended gear takes months and months to obtain? They must be playing a diff game from me because on Monday I got an ascended weapon box from pvp on Wednesday I got armor box from fractals and just today I got another weapon box. In that time I’ve crafted bolt of damask Everyday and crafted a piece of ascended chest piece for cheap. Not to mention the tons of ascended rings I got. What game are you playing that ascended gear takes months and months to get. Maybe you’re not playing the game at all?
Err nope, there doesn’t seem to be any berserk or enrage timer any dps increase is just a bonus not needed
Err nope, there doesn’t seem to be any berserk or enrage timer any dps increase is just a bonus not needed
joking?
there is a enrage timer. And many groups were unable to beat it even when surviving fine.
So people complaining want the raid reward skins for free? Lols this is just ridiculous, everyone and everything has a purpose in life. The raid reward skins were created to be raid rewards. If it would be given out for free it might as well not exist. So you want all skins to be available to everyone for free? I’m not one to complain, I’ve been pvping since the launch of gw2 and believe me it was not as rewarding as it is now.. Are you suggesting you want raids to have no rewards? How can challenging content be rewarding without an exclusive reward? It’s like the legendaries now the people have been complaining about, it’s not legendary if everyone and their Mom has one because people can buy it with gold. They shouldn’t have called the raid rewards legendaries than people wouldn’t complain so much, just call it raid rewards. And again what is with people saying ascended gear takes months and months to obtain? They must be playing a diff game from me because on Monday I got an ascended weapon box from pvp on Wednesday I got armor box from fractals and just today I got another weapon box. In that time I’ve crafted bolt of damask Everyday and crafted a piece of ascended chest piece for cheap. Not to mention the tons of ascended rings I got. What game are you playing that ascended gear takes months and months to get. Maybe you’re not playing the game at all?
the fastest method, involving rng, according to you is fractals
which requires:
ascended rings:
which require a daily chest to roll on
you need level 10 and before you can get a random roll for a ring
you need to get to 40+ for a decent chance of a drop
Do you think most people can climb 50 fractals, and win the rng battle, in less than a month?
time wise alone thats like 50-75 hours. and the unlocks are daily.
yeah its possible, but fairly unlikely, and would require like 3-6 hours a day dedicated to fractals alone.(once you get multiple chances per teir)
The people who are saying 5% difference is nothing but between 10 people its a 50% difference collectively but…that 1-2% extra damage (per person) can be 10-20% more damage effectively.
Before you decide to have a hernia over math, you should first make sure your math is correct.
Truth. Here is math in real life.
1% of 100 is 1
100 * 10 is 1000
1 * 10 is 10
1% of 1000 is 10
a 1% buff times 10 people is still a 1% buff.
a 1% buff times a billion people is stilla 1% buff._
Math is not my strongest suit, but if you have for example 100dps per member and per tick and need to reach 10000 in another amount of time, 5+ for everyone per tick would be quite a factor if it is designed in a way that you will barely make it if you have only 100?
With that in mind, should the hardcore crowd not shed off their ascended armors voluntarily rather than asking for them to be not necessary? I thought that you are looking for a challenge? There it is, build just for you, the 1%ers, as you are so fond of saying to us others.^^
Ascended Gear to be Required for Raids
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: TheRandomGuy.7246
Then why not give him the access to those skins, and keep the challenge for yourself?
Because those legendary skins are designed to be a raid reward duh.
So if they weren’t labeled as raid rewards, but were called by some other name it would be okay?
It is still a legendary armor set. It will end up being unreachable for majority anyway.
Except the restriction comes from the difficulty not gear.. Full Ascended Armour grants +20 Primary Stat and +16 Secondary Stats – it will not be a barrier, people are jumping on this topic to try and frame the debate as exclusive and unfair without appreciating the FACTS.
Do not let people convince you that raids are out of reach of participation due to gear – they are lying to you for selfish gains (Ohoni just wants access to raid armour skins and weapon skins, he is not interested in a challenging and rewarding game mode existing).
But plenty of people would enjoy that restriction, and in fact actively want it.
I agree it’s not a valid restriction in the case of GW2, but again look at the people drooling at the chance to have the content be more restricted based on a non-skill element.
That sais. Exclusive skins are a very good concept. Legendary weapons ain’t the rarest thing to see on people. Triple Wurm and Fractal tonic have more a lot more prestige than anything else in the game. Someone having a full triple Wurm armor (3 pieces) is like someone with a badge of honor. You know what he did for that and he’s one of the few people to have it. So an exclusive raid skins give a bit of that prestige. It’s a cool feeling for the people that have it, a sense of pride. And it have a wow factor for other player. I was fascinating with people with legendary weapons at launch. It was so cool and I wanted to be like them lol. But some legendary skin being exclusive to raid, pvp, wvw, etc is something. Having legendary armor close behind raid exclusively is another thing.
I reject the entire premise here. People don’t actually wow over things like Wurm armor, I mean, it’s interesting, but nobody’s going to think you’re fancy just because you have a set of it. If they are impressed, it’s because of how the armor looks, not because they know you must have played Wurm WAY too much to earn it. The whole discussion of “prestige” in a game just needs to dry up.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
That sais. Exclusive skins are a very good concept. Legendary weapons ain’t the rarest thing to see on people. Triple Wurm and Fractal tonic have more a lot more prestige than anything else in the game. Someone having a full triple Wurm armor (3 pieces) is like someone with a badge of honor. You know what he did for that and he’s one of the few people to have it. So an exclusive raid skins give a bit of that prestige. It’s a cool feeling for the people that have it, a sense of pride. And it have a wow factor for other player. I was fascinating with people with legendary weapons at launch. It was so cool and I wanted to be like them lol. But some legendary skin being exclusive to raid, pvp, wvw, etc is something. Having legendary armor close behind raid exclusively is another thing.
I reject the entire premise here. People don’t actually wow over things like Wurm armor, I mean, it’s interesting, but nobody’s going to think you’re fancy just because you have a set of it. If they are impressed, it’s because of how the armor looks, not because they know you must have played Wurm WAY too much to earn it. The whole discussion of “prestige” in a game just needs to dry up.
Just because you don’t “wow” over it, doesn’t mean others do not…
once again, you clearly believe in some make belief statstic that exclusive items are bad….
Prestige is not going ANYWHERE. in fact, anet is introducing more and more of it…. which shows exactly how wrong you are….
That’s because most people that ask for a difficult content do not really want it to be difficult. They want it restricted. Preferably in a way that will limit access to everyone except them and their friends.
Exactly.
Except the restriction comes from the difficulty not gear.. Full Ascended Armour grants +20 Primary Stat and +16 Secondary Stats – it will not be a barrier, people are jumping on this topic to try and frame the debate as exclusive and unfair without appreciating the FACTS.
Do not let people convince you that raids are out of reach of participation due to gear – they are lying to you for selfish gains (Ohoni just wants access to raid armour skins and weapon skins, he is not interested in a challenging and rewarding game mode existing).
And more weapon damage and more armor. If the raid is tuned well then those stats will make a difference. DPSers taking less damage means they can DPS longer before breaking to survive. Higher DPS means mobs will die quicker and thus players will take even less damage. Damage alone gets hugely multiplied so those stats quickly balloon up. Ask any top tier raider if even 1% more stats matter when trying new hard content, the answer will always be yes. Heck in FFXIV the new Alexander savage the 3rd floor is a prime example of exactly that. The difference between a clear and failure was the group having new weapons. If the raid designers working on GW2 are good and want hard content then it will be balanced for ascended and it will still leave very little room for error.
I’m all for challenging and downright hard content, just don’t gate it behind grind gear. Put new/better ways to obtain ascended gear in a timely manner into the game.
Just because you don’t “wow” over it, doesn’t mean others do not…
No, but I have no respect for those that would, and even less respect for those who seek out that reaction.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
Come on ascended is not hard to get, I’ve gotten ascended from dungeon drops, from pvp chest, from fractals. I’ve only nvr gotten it from world bosses because I don’t do any of them. They are practically thrown in your face! Why are people complaining about it! If you don’t even have 1 ascended piece you probably are new or haven’t been playing the game.
That’s nice for you. Some of us aren’t so lucky. I’ve never seen an ascended drop, and I’ll be surprised if I ever do. They’re just not that common for most of us.
Here’s the thing: before the game launched, Colin said every player should be able to gear up in top tier gear once they hit 80. No gear grind necessary. Awesome. Then they changed their minds, put in ascended, and locked it behind two things: a stupid, lengthy, expensive crafting grind; and an insanely low drop rate.
But they consoled us by saying ascended would only ever be needed for high level fractals. Until now; they’ve changed their minds again. And they’re still locked behind a stupid, lengthy, expensive crafting grind and an insanely low drop rate.
Ascended should not be in the game. Period.
(edited by Supernaut.2684)
Ascended Gear to be Required for Raids
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: TheRandomGuy.7246
Come on ascended is not hard to get, I’ve gotten ascended from dungeon drops, from pvp chest, from fractals. I’ve only nvr gotten it from world bosses because I don’t do any of them. They are practically thrown in your face! Why are people complaining about it! If you don’t even have 1 ascended piece you probably are new or haven’t been playing the game.
That’s nice for you. Some of us aren’t so lucky. I’ve never seen an ascended drop, and I’ll be surprised if I ever do. They’re just not that common for most of us.
Here’s the thing: before the game launched, Colin said every player should be able to gear up in top tier gear once they hit 80. No gear grind necessary. Awesome. Then they changed their minds, put in ascended, and locked it behind two things: a stupid, lengthy, expensive crafting grind; and an insanely low drop rate.
But they consoled us by saying ascended would only ever be needed for high level fractals. Until now. And they’re still locked behind a stupid, lengthy, expensive crafting grind and an insanely low drop rate.
Ascended should not be in the game. Period.
Like you gonna to play raids anyway. Never did fractals or bothered to get BiS in 2-3 years and then suddenly decided to be hardcore raid player.
Come on ascended is not hard to get, I’ve gotten ascended from dungeon drops, from pvp chest, from fractals. I’ve only nvr gotten it from world bosses because I don’t do any of them. They are practically thrown in your face! Why are people complaining about it! If you don’t even have 1 ascended piece you probably are new or haven’t been playing the game.
That’s nice for you. Some of us aren’t so lucky. I’ve never seen an ascended drop, and I’ll be surprised if I ever do. They’re just not that common for most of us.
Here’s the thing: before the game launched, Colin said every player should be able to gear up in top tier gear once they hit 80. No gear grind necessary. Awesome. Then they changed their minds, put in ascended, and locked it behind two things: a stupid, lengthy, expensive crafting grind; and an insanely low drop rate.
But they consoled us by saying ascended would only ever be needed for high level fractals. Until now. And they’re still locked behind a stupid, lengthy, expensive crafting grind and an insanely low drop rate.
Ascended should not be in the game. Period.
Like you gonna to play raids anyway. Never did fractals or bothered to get BiS in 2-3 years and then suddenly decided to be hardcore raid player.
So, the way you see it, a player who spends his or her game time in front of a crafting station is more qualified to raid than one who’s actually been playing the game? That makes no sense.
Arguably, a player who has mastered all the content in rare or even masterwork gear has had to learn to be a better player — since they’re not relying on better stats to carry them through.
That’s nice for you. Some of us aren’t so lucky. I’ve never seen an ascended drop, and I’ll be surprised if I ever do. They’re just not that common for most of us.
I got my first Ascended drop just the other day. It came out of a Princess poop. Three years and that’s the first I’ve gotten though.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
The people who are saying 5% difference is nothing but between 10 people its a 50% difference collectively but…that 1-2% extra damage (per person) can be 10-20% more damage effectively.
Before you decide to have a hernia over math, you should first make sure your math is correct.
Truth. Here is math in real life.
1% of 100 is 1
100 * 10 is 1000
1 * 10 is 10
1% of 1000 is 10
a 1% buff times 10 people is still a 1% buff.
a 1% buff times a billion people is stilla 1% buff._
Math is not my strongest suit, but if you have for example 100dps per member and per tick and need to reach 10000 in another amount of time, 5+ for everyone per tick would be quite a factor if it is designed in a way that you will barely make it if you have only 100?
With that in mind, should the hardcore crowd not shed off their ascended armors voluntarily rather than asking for them to be not necessary? I thought that you are looking for a challenge? There it is, build just for you, the 1%ers, as you are so fond of saying to us others.^^
I don’t know what you think I’ve said, or what group of people you think I represent. I’m sure some people will happily attempt to do it in greens or naked eventually, but that has very little to do with the challenge versus reward baked in to the encounters themselves.
Personally, I try to use the best tools avaliable to me to complete the task at hand, but most of my test raid party (and my live guild for that matter) hasn’t ever found ascended necessary outside of fractals. Unless there’s an artificial mechanic (like agony) that literally requires certain gear the difference is pretty miniscule.
I’m also not sure what I’m supposed to be fond of saying, and to whom “others” refers.
Can you please clarify this a bit so I can respond to you properly?
Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ
The people who are saying 5% difference is nothing but between 10 people its a 50% difference collectively but…that 1-2% extra damage (per person) can be 10-20% more damage effectively.
Before you decide to have a hernia over math, you should first make sure your math is correct.
Truth. Here is math in real life.
1% of 100 is 1
100 * 10 is 1000
1 * 10 is 10
1% of 1000 is 10
a 1% buff times 10 people is still a 1% buff.
a 1% buff times a billion people is stilla 1% buff._
Math is not my strongest suit, but if you have for example 100dps per member and per tick and need to reach 10000 in another amount of time, 5+ for everyone per tick would be quite a factor if it is designed in a way that you will barely make it if you have only 100?
With that in mind, should the hardcore crowd not shed off their ascended armors voluntarily rather than asking for them to be not necessary? I thought that you are looking for a challenge? There it is, build just for you, the 1%ers, as you are so fond of saying to us others.^^
I don’t know what you think I’ve said, or what group of people you think I represent. I’m sure some people will happily attempt to do it in greens or naked eventually, but that has very little to do with the challenge versus reward baked in to the encounters themselves.
Personally, I try to use the best tools avaliable to me to complete the task at hand, but most of my test raid party (and my live guild for that matter) hasn’t ever found ascended necessary outside of fractals. Unless there’s an artificial mechanic (like agony) that literally requires certain gear the difference is pretty miniscule.
I’m also not sure what I’m supposed to be fond of saying, and to whom “others” refers.
Can you please clarify this a bit so I can respond to you properly?
Quite the contrary, it has everything to do with reward vs. challenge debate. If you artificially lower the challenge by putting on the best available gear, should not also the reward be lowered on the premise that you spun kind of a safety net? If not, any argument that raids are done for the challenge and not for organization-fetish elitism or group experiences are moot or at least severly weakened. The fact that it is available so you should use it is irrelevant for that kind of argument, either you are looking for the unbriddled wrath of a challenge or are also indirectly asking for less hard content in that way.
And for the second paragraph I was refering to a group of people, not you specifically there. The kind of people that tell others to htfu and seek challenges with a dedicated resolve but are unwilling to spend some hours crafting because they quickly sell all their materials after they get them and are now to cheap or lazy to farm them so they come out of the woodwork, ironically demanding that their hand is held and exotic is enough for them to do a content that is made! for people dedicated to the game and their content who are willing to sacrifice time and effort into it.
The irony, hubris and hipocrisy of this is so thick that I nearly feel compelled to cut out a piece of it.
The people who are saying 5% difference is nothing but between 10 people its a 50% difference collectively but…that 1-2% extra damage (per person) can be 10-20% more damage effectively.
Before you decide to have a hernia over math, you should first make sure your math is correct.
Truth. Here is math in real life.
1% of 100 is 1
100 * 10 is 1000
1 * 10 is 10
1% of 1000 is 10
a 1% buff times 10 people is still a 1% buff.
a 1% buff times a billion people is stilla 1% buff._
Math is not my strongest suit, but if you have for example 100dps per member and per tick and need to reach 10000 in another amount of time, 5+ for everyone per tick would be quite a factor if it is designed in a way that you will barely make it if you have only 100?
With that in mind, should the hardcore crowd not shed off their ascended armors voluntarily rather than asking for them to be not necessary? I thought that you are looking for a challenge? There it is, build just for you, the 1%ers, as you are so fond of saying to us others.^^
I don’t know what you think I’ve said, or what group of people you think I represent. I’m sure some people will happily attempt to do it in greens or naked eventually, but that has very little to do with the challenge versus reward baked in to the encounters themselves.
Personally, I try to use the best tools avaliable to me to complete the task at hand, but most of my test raid party (and my live guild for that matter) hasn’t ever found ascended necessary outside of fractals. Unless there’s an artificial mechanic (like agony) that literally requires certain gear the difference is pretty miniscule.
I’m also not sure what I’m supposed to be fond of saying, and to whom “others” refers.
Can you please clarify this a bit so I can respond to you properly?
Quite the contrary, it has everything to do with reward vs. challenge debate. If you artificially lower the challenge by putting on the best available gear, should not also the reward be lowered on the premise that you spun kind of a safety net? If not, any argument that raids are done for the challenge and not for organization-fetish elitism or group experiences are moot or at least severly weakened. The fact that it is available so you should use it is irrelevant for that kind of argument, either you are looking for the unbriddled wrath of a challenge or are also indirectly asking for less hard content in that way.
And for the second paragraph I was refering to a group of people, not you specifically there. The kind of people that tell others to htfu and seek challenges with a dedicated resolve but are unwilling to spend some hours crafting because they quickly sell all their materials after they get them and are now to cheap or lazy to farm them so they come out of the woodwork, ironically demanding that their hand is held and exotic is enough for them to do a content that is made! for people dedicated to the game and their content who are willing to sacrifice time and effort into it.
The irony, hubris and hipocrisy of this is so thick that I nearly feel compelled to cut out a piece of it.
People want to use their hard won, hard earned, meticulously designed gear and builds. It is the task of the developers, not the players, to create challenges that take the progression up to that point in terms of learned player ability and equipment and say “alright, you’re so tough, try this.”
Creating content specifically designed to be trivial doesn’t create an inherant challenge at all. You could call dungeons extremely challenging, but only if you solo them, but the intent of the content is not that they are solo instances.
What I actually said was that the raids are, obviously, designed and tested around the best tools avaliable. Would it be cool if there were some sort of reward system that handed out even better stuff to people that chose to do the content in greens or whites? Absolutely!
Thing is, the content is designed with a certain checkpoint of gear, and that checkpoint is the exotic/ascended bar. It’s also designed specifically around the understanding that those attempting it will likely do so with every advantage they can muster. Designing it any other way, say, with everything completable in whites solo as the baseline goal immediately trivializes the content and calls in to question why better gear or larger parties exist in the first place.
When people complain about the challenge of content, it isn’t becuase they can’t create additional challenge for themselves. They certainly can. However, there’s a certain assumption when you take the time and effort to, say, build a set of ascended armor, and that’s that you can actually use the little extra numbers on it. That was after all why you built it.
Content intended to further the goal structures of players also must be designed around the assumed maximum power capacity of those players, including all statistical buffs and class synergies.
The people saying to htfu or whatever are speaking a truth in the rudest way possible. It is healthy to have content intended to be “the ultimate achievement” toward which players are intended to strive if they truly wish to prove themselves. It is also healthy to reward those that can succeed with something special.
Attacking that concept is a personal choice, but it is one that simply discounts the very real and valid desire of a massive part of the player population that says “I want to do something difficult in PvE, and I want to get really cool loot from it that I can’t get by doing anything else, because that’s what makes it special.”
The persecution complex espoused by certain players (not necessarily you) that they deserve equivalent rewards for doing content that is not equivalent has reaches a much higher point of forum toxicity than the counterpoint. It is littered with thinly cloaked or outright brazen insults, and quite frankly it saddens me. If people can play PvE for years and never care that they’re not getting WvW or PvP rewards, why do they suddenly have such a massive problem with raids?
There is no reconciling these two points of view as they are diametrically opposed.
One side of the spectrum wants unique and valuable rewards for unique and challenging content. They are of the mind that rewards should be primarily a test of skill, and that trophies are fun, meaningful, and add to the game. They see these as new and interesting challenges to acquire new and interesting things.
The other side of the spectrum would prefer rewards to be a function of scale, in which any given thing can be acquired by working longer rather than harder. They are of the mind that rewards should be primarily a test of earning power of just desire, and that trophies keep them from having things they want. They see these as impossible roadblocks that prevent them from acquiring new things.
Neither extreme is completely right, nor completely wrong.
Arenanet has opted to hover in the middle, realizing that pleasing extremists is effectively impossible. Anet values the non-raider that recognizes and accepts why they don’t have raid rewards, and anet values the raider that recognizes and accepts that they can’t fully utilize their rewards without playing a hefty helping of content they may find “easy” and “boring”
The entire system is built on a foundation of assumed tolerance. They expect the raiders to tolerate open world content and living stories, and they expect the non-raiders to tolerate raids.
Why people can’t simple tolerate one another is beyond me. It’s a video game for the sake of pete. I haven’t attained 100%, or max rank,, or collected all the collectibles, or whatever in virtually any game I’ve ever played, and it’s doubtful I will do so. However, is seems silly to suggest that simply because I can not achieve it no one else should be able to. I simply haven’t because I haven’t made it a priority, not because the game itself is actively hostile toward me.
Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ
(edited by PopeUrban.2578)
Thing is, the content is designed with a certain checkpoint of gear, and that checkpoint is the exotic/ascended bar. It’s also designed specifically around the understanding that those attempting it will likely do so with every advantage they can muster. Designing it any other way, say, with everything completable in whites solo as the baseline goal immediately trivializes the content and calls in to question why better gear or larger parties exist in the first place.
Large parties should be necessary, better gear? No, it should not be necessary. Exotic should be plenty. The content should be designed in such a way that gearing is largely irrelevant, that your progress through the encounter is relative to your ability to play, not the gear you bring with you. It should be no easier to win using Ascended gear than Exotic. Maybe they could make use of their scaling system to make that happen, like auto-balancing people’s stats so that exotic and ascended armors leave you with identical stats.
When people complain about the challenge of content, it isn’t becuase they can’t create additional challenge for themselves. They certainly can. However, there’s a certain assumption when you take the time and effort to, say, build a set of ascended armor, and that’s that you can actually use the little extra numbers on it. That was after all why you built it.
No. If you built ascended armor, it was based on ANet’s promise that those little extra numbers should not matter. That was the fact of things for the past two years or so, and should remain the fact of things going forward, unless they make ascended armor far easier to acquire.
If people can play PvE for years and never care that they’re not getting WvW or PvP rewards, why do they suddenly have such a massive problem with raids?
I’m not sure who these people are, but please introduce us to them. The only people I know are either people like yourself that are fine with the new development, and people like myself who are not, but who have also never been fine with exclusive PvP and WvW exclusives either. This is a new expansion of exclusivity though, so this is what is acing pushback currently.
One side of the spectrum wants unique and valuable rewards for unique and challenging content. They are of the mind that rewards should be primarily a test of skill, and that trophies are fun, meaningful, and add to the game. They see these as new and interesting challenges to acquire new and interesting things.
The other side of the spectrum would prefer rewards to be a function of scale, in which any given thing can be acquired by working longer rather than harder. They are of the mind that rewards should be primarily a test of earning power of just desire, and that trophies keep them from having things they want. They see these as impossible roadblocks that prevent them from acquiring new things.
Mostly correct, although I will say that speaking for myself, I am 100% fine with them awarding trophies for extreme skill and achievement, so long as that term is used correctly to refer to otherwise value-less hunks of matter that only have any value when attached to prestige. Armor and weapon skins cannot be considered “trophies” as they have inherent value beyond signifying an achievement.
So it would be inaccurate to say that I am at all opposed to skill rewarding trophies, just that I do not believe that skins can qualify as trophies.
I also believe that it’s perfectly fine for extreme skill to award people skins and such, and even reward them more efficiently than other methods, but I do believe that those other methods should be available for those whom skill is not the method they wish to pursue.
I would also like to point out that those opposing raiding aren’t necessarily opposed to the skill aspect, at least not entirely. There are also plenty of logistical reasons why the standard raid might fall outside of the options available to a given player.
The entire system is built on a foundation of assumed tolerance. They expect the raiders to tolerate open world content and living stories, and they expect the non-raiders to tolerate raids.
There’s no reason for that though. The game has done without raids, and those who require them, for three years now. There’s no reason it cannot continue to do so, and if attempting to “split the baby” just ends up resulting in a huge mess on the floor, then why do you believe it’s worth doing?
Why people can’t simple tolerate one another is beyond me. It’s a video game for the sake of pete.
I have zero problem tolerating raiders, so long as their existence does not take anything away from me. The PvP system this game launched with was the ideal PvP system to me, because it was 100% divorced from anything else. You could play, progress, earn rewards, etc., but it had absolutely nothing to do with the game I was playing. Then they ruined that.
The raids are similar, I don’t have a problem with raids existing, I don’t have a problem with people wanting to play them, both of those things are fine. But if you make rewards that I do want, rewards that could theoretically be applied to any content in the game, and you instead lock them behind raids, well suddenly you’ve made raids an obstacle in my path, rather than just something I can cheerfully ignore. Suddenly you’ve made raiders my enemy, for propping up that system that is in my way. It has nothing to do with “not tolerating” people who are just trying to do their own thing, it has to do with trying to get what I want out of the game, and these people fighting me at every step.
I have absolutely nothing against raiders who just want to raid and have a good time, and don’t mind if I also have a good time, but anyone who says “I raid, therefore I am entitled to having special rewards, and you aren’t so I’m going to fight against you having any other way of earning those rewards,” then yeah, we’ve got a problem, and I’m not the one starting it.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
People want to use their hard won, hard earned, meticulously designed gear and builds. It is the task of the developers, not the players, to create challenges that take the progression up to that point in terms of learned player ability and equipment and say “alright, you’re so tough, try this.”
Creating content specifically designed to be trivial doesn’t create an inherant challenge at all. You could call dungeons extremely challenging, but only if you solo them, but the intent of the content is not that they are solo instances.
What I actually said was that the raids are, obviously, designed and tested around the best tools avaliable. Would it be cool if there were some sort of reward system that handed out even better stuff to people that chose to do the content in greens or whites? Absolutely!
Thing is, the content is designed with a certain checkpoint of gear, and that checkpoint is the exotic/ascended bar. It’s also designed specifically around the understanding that those attempting it will likely do so with every advantage they can muster. Designing it any other way, say, with everything completable in whites solo as the baseline goal immediately trivializes the content and calls in to question why better gear or larger parties exist in the first place.
When people complain about the challenge of content, it isn’t becuase they can’t create additional challenge for themselves. They certainly can. However, there’s a certain assumption when you take the time and effort to, say, build a set of ascended armor, and that’s that you can actually use the little extra numbers on it. That was after all why you built it.
Content intended to further the goal structures of players also must be designed around the assumed maximum power capacity of those players, including all statistical buffs and class synergies.
The people saying to htfu or whatever are speaking a truth in the rudest way possible. It is healthy to have content intended to be “the ultimate achievement” toward which players are intended to strive if they truly wish to prove themselves. It is also healthy to reward those that can succeed with something special.
Attacking that concept is a personal choice, but it is one that simply discounts the very real and valid desire of a massive part of the player population that says “I want to do something difficult in PvE, and I want to get really cool loot from it that I can’t get by doing anything else, because that’s what makes it special.”
The persecution complex espoused by certain players (not necessarily you) that they deserve equivalent rewards for doing content that is not equivalent has reaches a much higher point of forum toxicity than the counterpoint. It is littered with thinly cloaked or outright brazen insults, and quite frankly it saddens me. If people can play PvE for years and never care that they’re not getting WvW or PvP rewards, why do they suddenly have such a massive problem with raids?
There is no reconciling these two points of view as they are diametrically opposed.
One side of the spectrum wants unique and valuable rewards for unique and challenging content. They are of the mind that rewards should be primarily a test of skill, and that trophies are fun, meaningful, and add to the game. They see these as new and interesting challenges to acquire new and interesting things.
The other side of the spectrum would prefer rewards to be a function of scale, in which any given thing can be acquired by working longer rather than harder. They are of the mind that rewards should be primarily a test of earning power of just desire, and that trophies keep them from having things they want. They see these as impossible roadblocks that prevent them from acquiring new things.
Neither extreme is completely right, nor completely wrong.
Arenanet has opted to hover in the middle, realizing that pleasing extremists is effectively impossible. Anet values the non-raider that recognizes and accepts why they don’t have raid rewards, and anet values the raider that recognizes and accepts that they can’t fully utilize their rewards without playing a hefty helping of content they may find “easy” and “boring”
The entire system is built on a foundation of assumed tolerance. They expect the raiders to tolerate open world content and living stories, and they expect the non-raiders to tolerate raids.
Why people can’t simple tolerate one another is beyond me. It’s a video game for the sake of pete. I haven’t attained 100%, or max rank,, or collected all the collectibles, or whatever in virtually any game I’ve ever played, and it’s doubtful I will do so. However, is seems silly to suggest that simply because I can not achieve it no one else should be able to. I simply haven’t because I haven’t made it a priority, not because the game itself is actively hostile toward me.
There is no hard to win content vs. People want to use their hard earned builds and equipment.
How does that fit together? And even if it fits together somehow, how does this take away that the central ethos of raiding, htfu and get better by practice and hard work, is violated by the concept that they demand equally good equipment and chances when it suits their needs and desires, but do not want to work for it? In my perception, this is the central hypocrisy here.
I am more willing to have PvP people have unique rewards because you can get nothing there that a dungeon/open world can´t give you too or skins only. I dislike PvP and only do it when I have absolutely nothing to do elsewise, but there is little of interest for me to get out from, so I tolerate it. If I was a PvP player, I would probably have complained for years how unfair that is.
Wvw is the red headed step child of GW2 anyway regarding rewards. And again, there is nothing in wvw that is needed outside of wvw that could not be adequately(my central point) replaced by other stuff.
I tolerate and do fractals because they start easy, anyone with two hands and a vague idea about playing GW2 can play them from 1-9 with little practice and give rewards quickly. Beside, nothing of any gaming value that you can´t get elsewhere can be gained there too, skins are cosmetic only.
And there we are with raids. Unique reward with legendary armor, cannot be gained by any other source. I would also be kittened if it would be at least tradeable, but not that much as right now. Give any other mode of playing the chance to obtain the amor, and you ill never hear me complaining about raids again or set a foot in them. And this is the central problem today, Anet knows that there are enough people like me that they could never catch with raids if the reward is not exceptional, so right now I feel shoehorned and forced into it.
Tough luck you may think. Well, yeah, tough luck for me. But don´t think everybody of my kind is a loyal customer of a franchise, some people will just pack their bag and go.
My conclusion would probably be:
Give me an alternative, even grindy way of obtaining the items I want if that pleases the hardest content for best reward crowd, then people can be happy in raids with my best wishes.
Ascended Gear to be Required for Raids
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: TheRandomGuy.7246
rewards that I do want
Sums up literally all your walls of text. You think that you are entitled to something more than just an access to gw2 servers, having no f2p restrictions and a customers support but you are not.
Sums up literally all your walls of text. You think that you are entitled to something more than just an access to gw2 servers, having no f2p restrictions and a customers support but you are not.
I’m no more entitled to Legendary Armor than raiders are, I’m just no less entitled either. We’re both entitled to receive exactly which rewards ANet chooses to distribute to us, and as paying customers we’re both entitled to ask for additional rewards if we feel it would make our play time more enjoyable, and ANet is free to agree or disagree.
I don’t claim to be entitled to anything more than you listed, but I do know what would make me a happier customer, and so I’m making that clear to all involved.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
Ascended Gear to be Required for Raids
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Astralporing.1957
Thing is, the content is designed with a certain checkpoint of gear, and that checkpoint is the exotic/ascended bar. It’s also designed specifically around the understanding that those attempting it will likely do so with every advantage they can muster. Designing it any other way, say, with everything completable in whites solo as the baseline goal immediately trivializes the content and calls in to question why better gear or larger parties exist in the first place.
Oh, i agree. I simply point out, that the ascended gear acquisition was balanced around this never happening. Therefore, if you use that gear as a baseline for the new content, you do need to rebalance its acquisition – because the assumptions for it no longer hold true. Or you admit, that this assumption was a lie from the very beginning.
You cannot claim, that “this gear isn’t needed, it’s just a bonus” and yet at the same time plan content where it’s definitely not “just a bonus”.
So, while it is understandable for Raids to require ascended armor, when ignoring all other considerations, this doesn’t make those other considerations to suddenly stop existing.
rewards that I do want
Sums up literally all your walls of text. You think that you are entitled to something more than just an access to gw2 servers, having no f2p restrictions and a customers support but you are not.
Neither are you, remember?
Basically, both of you ask for rewards that you want to be obtained playing content that you like. The only difference is that he is okay with you getting what you ask, while you do not want to share.
Now, who is more entitled here, i wonder?
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Oh come on… Those of you who keep insisting that ascended is soooooooo difficult to get are just being ridiculous. Let me ask you have you tried getting it yet? Have you tried doing a few guild missions to buy your first ascended ring for fractals above 10? It doesn’t take that many guild missions you know… I’ve only done a couple of guild missions less than 10 probably in my 3k hours of play and got my 1st ascended ring to start out… And guild missions don’t even take Long maybe 30 mins tops. Have you tried doing fractals? You can also buy rings with fractal pristines and up your ar. You don’t even need that much ar to do the lower fractals and it would give you rings and pristines daily. And 75 hours for a ring? Don’t fool yourself, fractals only take 1 hour or 1.5 hours on average to worst that’s like 10 hours for a ring.. And on the way to 10 hours you will also get a chance at rings and gear! To craft a bolt of damask a day you just have to spent like 10 minutes and about 10 gold to craft it Everyday, just do it as soon as you log in it will save you a lot of gold in the Long run. Where do you get 10 gold a day you ask? Well you can farm 10 gold from sw or dungeons in about 1 to 1.5 hours. So to get your ascended you just have to technically spend 2 hours a day playing. If you can do that at least try to craft your bolts of damask! If you’re telling me you can’t even spend 1 hour a day to complete your daily and work towards your ascended than I gotta ask you… Why do you wanna do raids? What are you doing when you log on to gw2? Just remember 1 hour a day to get 10 gold to craft bolt of damask. That’s not a lot lol, those saying ascended is Super hard to get pls tell me what you do when you log on. If you wanna rebut my opinion pls tell me what you do when you log on, maybe I can help you. Trust me 1 hour a day for 1 week will get you almost 2 ascended armor pieces… 2 hours a day will get you the ascended trinkets and gear even faster from fractals. It’s seriously not that hard and you don’t need any luck to do it. You still have about 3 weeks to craft ascended for raids that’s like 1 hour a day for 3 weeks! I guarantee you will get a full set of ascended gear by then. If you can’t spend 1 hour a day than you just gotta play a little longer. 1 hour a day for 3 weeks is only 21 hours mind you.
Even if you don’t have 1 hour on some days just log on for 10 mins to craft that bolt of damask using your reserve gold it’s easy. Crafting 24 damask instead of buying 24 will save you about 96 gold because I believe the tp sells it 4 gold more expensive? Yeah just log in 10 mins a day to craft bolt of damask. If you got time to spare, don’t do dungeons, don’t do pvp, don’t do wvw, don’t farm champ trains or world bosses. Just spend your first hour doing fractals to up your fractal lvl before doing anything else! If you want ascended you gotta just prioritise your 1st hour of gameplay to fractals.
Ascended Gear to be Required for Raids
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: TheRandomGuy.7246
Neither are you, remember?
Basically, both of you ask for rewards that you want to be obtained playing content that you like. The only difference is that he is okay with you getting what you ask, while you do not want to share.
Now, who is more entitled here, i wonder?
Except that I don’t ask for anything. Devs create content and add exclusive reward to it. No one cared about this for 3 years. What changed now?
Therefore, if you use that gear as a baseline for the new content, you do need to rebalance its acquisition – because the assumptions for it no longer hold true. Or you admit, that this assumption was a lie from the very beginning.
So increased drop of ascended chests with select-able stats from first bosses in raids, map reward system that will give expensive mats to you for doing random events and entire fractal rework to make them more casual friendly is not enough?
Thing is, the content is designed with a certain checkpoint of gear, and that checkpoint is the exotic/ascended bar. It’s also designed specifically around the understanding that those attempting it will likely do so with every advantage they can muster. Designing it any other way, say, with everything completable in whites solo as the baseline goal immediately trivializes the content and calls in to question why better gear or larger parties exist in the first place.
Oh, i agree. I simply point out, that the ascended gear acquisition was balanced around this never happening. Therefore, if you use that gear as a baseline for the new content, you do need to rebalance its acquisition – because the assumptions for it no longer hold true. Or you admit, that this assumption was a lie from the very beginning.
You cannot claim, that “this gear isn’t needed, it’s just a bonus” and yet at the same time plan content where it’s definitely not “just a bonus”.
So, while it is understandable for Raids to require ascended armor, when ignoring all other considerations, this doesn’t make those other considerations to suddenly stop existing.
rewards that I do want
Sums up literally all your walls of text. You think that you are entitled to something more than just an access to gw2 servers, having no f2p restrictions and a customers support but you are not.
Neither are you, remember?
Basically, both of you ask for rewards that you want to be obtained playing content that you like. The only difference is that he is okay with you getting what you ask, while you do not want to share.
Now, who is more entitled here, i wonder?
The one that is more entitled is the one ASKING for anet to GIVE HIM REWARDS THE WAY HE WANTS, NOT TO WAY ANET SET IT OUT TO BE.
Look, its really freaking simple.
Anet created raids, raids (among other content) have EXCLUSIVE rewards as their ENDGAME GOAL. This has been set out and made clear – fractals have theirs, PvP has their backpeice coming, Raids have theirs, etc etc….
A lot of people seem to be happy with the reward system going forward – where most of the rewards can be achieved through all sorts of paths , but some select rewards will remain exclusive to certain content….
SOME people don’t like this reward system anet has set out, which means they can’t accept the path set forth by anet, hence, THEY WANT IT THEIR WAY.
That is the defintion of entitlement…..
No one said raiders won’t share – everyone is freely able to raid – its your own bloody problem if you don’t want to do the path anet sets out for you…
The real difference is, he isn’t ASKING for anet to change their philsophy , their path, on how exclusive rewards are achieved…
It boils down to accepting anet’s reward philsophy or moving on. A lot of players have accepted it and seem to be OK with it…. the ones who aren’t willing to accept it are the REAL entitled ones who believe it “HAS TO BE MY WAY , NOT ANETS”
Neither are you, remember?
Basically, both of you ask for rewards that you want to be obtained playing content that you like. The only difference is that he is okay with you getting what you ask, while you do not want to share.
Now, who is more entitled here, i wonder?Except that I don’t ask for anything. Devs create content and add exclusive reward to it. No one cared about this for 3 years. What changed now?
Therefore, if you use that gear as a baseline for the new content, you do need to rebalance its acquisition – because the assumptions for it no longer hold true. Or you admit, that this assumption was a lie from the very beginning.
So increased drop of ascended chests with select-able stats from first bosses in raids, map reward system that will give expensive mats to you for doing random events and entire fractal rework to make them more casual friendly is not enough?
Because it is the first time that something useful for anyone is hidden behind only a single type of content, that´s why. Nobody, probably included you too, cares about a fractal weapon skins, fancy burning backpack from PvP or exotic quality edge of the mist weapons in regard to comfort and versatility.
And no, Ascended is not the same as legendary armor. It may statistically be the same, but misses the one quality that makes legendary vastly superior, versatility. It´s like driving a tank against an omnimech. Both are build of the same material and have the same firepower, but how one thing is superior to the other should be clear to everyone.
If you want the reward, you do the content that is designed around it. It’s that simple. Nobody should spread out the rewards to every facet of the game because people feel it’s unfair to have challenge and exclusive rewards linked together. I have news for you, they’re always linked together, and it is this that Gw2 lacked before; a clearly defined reward behind significant challenge.
Where did these people come from who believe that challenge and reward are mutually exclusive, because they aren’t. They are linked together, as they should be. If you remove good rewards from challenging content, you remove any incentive to do the content and thus devalue the developer’s work put into it. On the other hand, spreading out said reward to other game modes that do not offer the same challenge again simply makes the reward cheap and meaningless.
This game needs meaningful rewards. And it stands to reason that such rewards are given for taking on a significant challenge. If you are not up to the challenge, or the “busy work” involved in reaching it, (however time consuming or uninteresting it may be to you) then you didn’t want it badly enough.
Challenge and reward do not go hand in hand, that is simply false. Just take a look at your surrounding and come back to tell me with a straight look in the face that for example a surgeon should not be paid and morally rewarded better than he is right now where he has to look at every step he does to not get sued while a middle management bankster cashes in royaly while screwing up on all fronts.
Flaws in the way the real world seems to work through anecdotal evidence doesn’t mean the system itself is a failure. At some point hard work is supposed to pay off. That is the point of working hard or succeeding at a challenge, as it were. There will always be ways to game the system. Does that then mean that in Gw2 we are to institute holes so that players fall through them?
Got wall-of-texty in there for a kitten
allenge/reward doesn’t really apply to the ascended armor question, it is still a largely meaningless ‘reccomend’.
Yes, recommended. Which is why this whole argument is pointless. Anyone who is going to set standards for pug groups by having ascended armor be a requirement is someone you shouldn’t be grouping with anyway. Just make your own group. Half of this game’s problems would be solved by people simply making their own groups.
What is wrong with someone getting fed up with people’s overcompensation and saying “F this I’m making my own group!”? There are so many people that sit around and wait for the world to change instead of being a part of change.
(edited by Bandrell.4357)
What do you prefer, building a wall to keep people out or dig holes for them to fall in? It´s basically the same idea, just the opposite direction and a different perception.
What is hard work? I consider sitting on my bottom for 60+ minutes and listening to instructions to get a piece of equipment hard work. I also consider walking around to see this and that hard work as that is actually boring for me. You may call this a team effort raid and world exploration, both maybe highly desireable for you. Maybe a nice guy that helps others in map chat works harder for the game than you or I if he answers the same questions over and over with a smile. Is he properly rewarded except for the satisfaction of a job well done?
And what you call falling through if I understand you right when you think that means the holes are way around the hard content, I consider to be a social achievement and a good example of tolerance raiders ask for. People unwilling to do raids should have other ways to get the legendary armor. Either you make everything exclusive, or nothing.
And yes, there are already exclusive things in GW2, but they are either only equipment in the widest of senses like skins and/or are replaceable with a different piece of equipment with the exact! same properties.
(edited by Torolan.5816)
Let me be clear. I have no problems with there being legendary armor skins for WvW or sPvP, so long as they are mutually exclusive. I do not believe standing around or killing krait for 300 hours is something that should be rewarded. My reasoning why should be just as transparent.
On that I fully agree with you. The content with the best reward should be something different than grinding 5000 random mobs or something like that, but it also should not be a fortress on a mountaintop with only one angle to attack from.
Let me be clear. I have no problems with there being legendary armor skins for WvW or sPvP, so long as they are mutually exclusive. I do not believe standing around or killing krait for 300 hours is something that should be rewarded. My reasoning why should be just as transparent.
Sorry but that’s kittened up.
Anet added a new system to get legendary weapon that are account bound.
Legendary isn’t just a skin : it’s the last gear tier.
You can’t just block a gear tier behind a raid system to cater to “hardcore PvE”.
GW2 is based on skins as reward.
I would be okay if Raid have some cool looking unique armor with shiny effect as long they are skin and not gear level.
You could show off and not block access to people wanting that gear.
Hiding gear behind raid is a WoW mechanic.
Let me be clear. I have no problems with there being legendary armor skins for WvW or sPvP, so long as they are mutually exclusive. I do not believe standing around or killing krait for 300 hours is something that should be rewarded. My reasoning why should be just as transparent.
Sorry but that’s kittened up.
Anet added a new system to get legendary weapon that are account bound.
Legendary isn’t just a skin : it’s the last gear tier.
You can’t just block a gear tier behind a raid system to cater to “hardcore PvE”.
GW2 is based on skins as reward.
I would be okay if Raid have some cool looking unique armor with shiny effect as long they are skin and not gear level.
You could show off and not block access to people wanting that gear.Hiding gear behind raid is a WoW mechanic.
Legendaries are ascended tier with a unique skin and a QoL feature, not a tier of their own.
Legendaries are ascended tier with a unique skin and a QoL feature, not a tier of their own.
Qol just behind the abilty to swap stats without cost & on the fly.
I don’t see how this can’t be useful….
You can have the skin; I don’t care & you will be able to show off as a raider
The QoL; I do care.
(edited by papry.8096)