Guild Wars 2

Just realized: If you’re not careful and use your f5 shatter when most of your skills are on cooldown, you’ll actually be lengthening those cooldowns.

Plot Twist III: Signet of Illusions will not work the same because they’re not stupid to allow for infinite castings.

Blazing Rathalos.1904:

Just realized: If you’re not careful and use your f5 shatter when most of your skills are on cooldown, you’ll actually be lengthening those cooldowns.

Aka High skill. :P

Even if it is a shatter it is still only one extra cast of f5. F5 does not reset CDs, it puts everything as it was back when you first activated it before the revert. Which means…
-cast f5 and do all the things you want to do
-f5 ends and you were back to how you were when it began
-you cast sig(now on cd) and f5 is no longer on cd
-you cast f5 again(while sig is now on full cd) do your stuff and it ends buttttt, when it reverts you back your sig will be back to how it was when the second f5 was cast(so full cd)

Papish.5806:

Even if it is a shatter it is still only one extra cast of f5. F5 does not reset CDs, it puts everything as it was back when you first activated it before the revert. Which means…
-cast f5 and do all the things you want to do
-f5 ends and you were back to how you were when it began
-you cast sig(now on cd) and f5 is no longer on cd
-you cast f5 again(while sig is now on full cd) do your stuff and it ends buttttt, when it reverts you back your sig will be back to how it was when the second f5 was cast(so full cd)

ahhh this is true..

ronpierce.2760:

Valento.9852:

Plot twist: F5 activation will not revert F1-F5 skills, I’m sorry if you thought you could spam perma-revert with infinite skill usage.

I don’t think people are understanding him….
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Illusions

This resets Shatters.

Continuum Split, signent heal resets split, and the return resets the signent heal that resets shatters.

However because it is a 2 part skill, I don’t think split will be resettable in that time frame. Might be a non issue. We’ll see.

I don’t get it. I get what you’re trying to say, but logically won’t this only let you use Continuum twice instead of once?

C-Split→C-Shift→SoI→C-Split

At the beginning of the second C-Split, Signet of Illusions will be on CD and thus unusable. If you use it in the first C-Split, you won’t be resetting Continuum’s CD because of its follow-up skill. Unless there’s some pattern I’m not seeing, can you clarify how perma-Continuum would work?

My concern is that the elite specializations end up so powerful that you’re basically forced to play them whether you like them or not.

Dondagora.9645:

ronpierce.2760:

Valento.9852:

Plot twist: F5 activation will not revert F1-F5 skills, I’m sorry if you thought you could spam perma-revert with infinite skill usage.

I don’t think people are understanding him….
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Illusions

This resets Shatters.

Continuum Split, signent heal resets split, and the return resets the signent heal that resets shatters.

However because it is a 2 part skill, I don’t think split will be resettable in that time frame. Might be a non issue. We’ll see.

I don’t get it. I get what you’re trying to say, but logically won’t this only let you use Continuum twice instead of once?

C-Split->C-Shift->SoI->C-Split

At the beginning of the second C-Split, Signet of Illusions will be on CD and thus unusable. If you use it in the first C-Split, you won’t be resetting Continuum’s CD because of its follow-up skill. Unless there’s some pattern I’m not seeing, can you clarify how perma-Continuum would work?

What you said is exactly what I said, because it’s a follow up skill, likely it will not be a problem because you won’t be able to reset its cooldown while split is in place. If it wasn’t a 2 part skill it would work, but in this case, the best we can expect is like triple ability combos.

“Shifting back to the original timeline reverts the chronomancer’s health, endurance, and all cooldowns (yes, even the elite skill) back to the state they were in when the shatter was first activated.”

Could this also be a double-edged sword though by also increasing cooldowns?

TheDaiBish.9735:

“Shifting back to the original timeline reverts the chronomancer’s health, endurance, and all cooldowns (yes, even the elite skill) back to the state they were in when the shatter was first activated.”

Could this also be a double-edged sword though by also increasing cooldowns?

Yup~ Thus it’ll be a matter of skill to be able to manipulate our CD’s. In a sense, this is a “Super-High Reward, Super-High Risk” style since, while we may be able to effectively double our effectiveness in situations, we also run the risk of a backlash in the case of absentmindedness and end up costing more time on CD’s. Time-travel is risky business, as they say~

Dondagora.9645:

TheDaiBish.9735:

“Shifting back to the original timeline reverts the chronomancer’s health, endurance, and all cooldowns (yes, even the elite skill) back to the state they were in when the shatter was first activated.”

Could this also be a double-edged sword though by also increasing cooldowns?

Yup~ Thus it’ll be a matter of skill to be able to manipulate our CD’s. In a sense, this is a “Super-High Reward, Super-High Risk” style since, while we may be able to effectively double our effectiveness in situations, we also run the risk of a backlash in the case of absentmindedness and end up costing more time on CD’s. Time-travel is risky business, as they say~

Same with being healed by other players during the duration, though that likely won’t be as much of an issue as it won’t happen to often.

From their talk of using the f5 shatter to avoid a killing blow, can we assume the return skill will still activate if you’re downed?

Blazing Rathalos.1904:

Dondagora.9645:

TheDaiBish.9735:

“Shifting back to the original timeline reverts the chronomancer’s health, endurance, and all cooldowns (yes, even the elite skill) back to the state they were in when the shatter was first activated.”

Could this also be a double-edged sword though by also increasing cooldowns?

Yup~ Thus it’ll be a matter of skill to be able to manipulate our CD’s. In a sense, this is a “Super-High Reward, Super-High Risk” style since, while we may be able to effectively double our effectiveness in situations, we also run the risk of a backlash in the case of absentmindedness and end up costing more time on CD’s. Time-travel is risky business, as they say~

Same with being healed by other players during the duration, though that likely won’t be as much of an issue as it won’t happen to often.

From their talk of using the f5 shatter to avoid a killing blow, can we assume the return skill will still activate if you’re downed?

Maybe a trait? “Activate Continuum Split at the health threshold[5-10%]”? Sounds like it could either screw you or save you.

Chronomancer will be Weaver in Dota.

“Weaver warps backward to whatever position it was in five seconds earlier—regaining the HP and mana from that time. No effect on cooldown, gold or experience.”

Intriguing. A little disappointing that the blog didn’t break down traits and skills and such the way that mammoth AMA last week did for the core specs, but I’m going to assume that’s what the PoI I can’t watch is for.

On the whole: I like this. It feels like it could help solve some key problems I’ve had with the Massmore that’ve kept mine sitting in his corner collecting dust. The whole double-Timewarp or double-Moa thing (depending on your gamemode) is obviously batty, but doubling up on your elite is hardly the only thing Continuum Split does.

You can punch CS right before taking a big stonking hit in order to wipe out the hit once you revert, so it’s sort of a crazy spare dodge/heal. It’s a backwards teleport for things like Arah paths if you can find a target long enough to generate the shatter. The reversion will probably be a stunbreak, so you get a stunbreak baked into your F-slot skills if you time it right. Time it right. Heh heh heh… What could be very interesting is if it also copies your boons/conditions. You could use CS to double up on beneficial things like a burst of Quickness or a thick Might stack, or as a sort of bass-ackwards weird cleanse if you set it up right, but I don’t know if reverting time goes that far.

As well, the shield and the Wells seem to offer a good deal of extra AoE options and general utility, though nobody can be sure of that without seeing the rest of the spec, of course. When I was trying and failing to get a grip on the class, the Massmore really struggled with multiple targets; AoE shield skills and Wells might help patch that up, though it sounds as if the cooldowns are going to be painful if you can’t keep this Alacrity thing going. On the other hand, Alacrity doesn’t just work on Chronomancer skills. May even shorten Shatter recharges, which means a whole lot more Mind Wracks, which could also patch up the AoE issues the class has.

Overall, I am quite intrigued indeed. Let us see where this goes when the stream hits.

So, let me get this straight: I can trigger that first part of the new shatter, get exploded by a thief and right before they can spike me, hit the second part and suddenly I’m standing and ready to fight again from wherever i triggered the shatter in the first place?! HA, oh man the rage on the forums from other players calling for a nerf will be insaaaaaaaane.

phys.7689:

yeah but you have to look at what your giving up.

domination? 10 dmg percent while vuln, 15% illusion dmg, 25-50% minwrack dmg. interupt traits

dueling? blade training, numerous condi buffs, deceptive evasion (shatter fuel) harmonious mantras stacking dmg buff, phantsmal fury

illusions? all shatter buffs 15% faster cool downs on shatter skills (includes continum shift, which will probably have super long cool down) phantsmal haste.

power wise, these trait lines pack a huge punch, there will definately be builds that would be better of with these synergies.

HOWEVER they will be lot less interesting.

Why do you think you’re “giving all that up”? As far as I’m aware, you keep the first four trait lines, and only the last one gets swapped for the new elite specialization.

So instead of Illusions, you’ll probably have something like “Chonomancy”. You’ll still have Domination, Dueling, Chaos and Inspiration. I could be completely wrong, that’s just my understanding.

Disclosure – This is not a complaint thread, but rather a discussion topic

With the latest news that the Chronomancer class is being brought back, there are shockwaves of joy from fellow GW1 players who waited for GW:Utopia. But with all that joy for this new Mesmer specialization, comes some hesitation.

Time Control -

This feature seems a bit too overpowered for competitive play. WvW and SPvP players already have their hands full facing Mesmers. Clone spamming, stealth, crowd controls, etc. We’ve come up with counters to all of them. But being frozen in time without the ability to Stun Break? The only counter to that would be to keep your distance and avoid the spell completely.

Then Chronomancers have the ability to reverse time, allowing fatal blows to be negated. Does this mean that they can pick themselves up from being downed/defeated? Or how about falling off a cliff, will the Chronomancer fly back upwards at the end of the skill? Last but not least, the ability to double cast high cool down skills or even reduce the cool down timer for skills.

While all these sound epic, I’m asking the Devs to consider how this will affect the meta for WvW and SPvP. If a Chronomancer will be able to manipulate time and get access to powerful mechanics, I hope there’ll be some drawbacks to balance out it’s usage. There doesn’t seem like many ways to counter the control of time, except for really high cool downs or major drawbacks to prevent constant use.

Dethl.2875:

If SoI gets used before F5: SoI won’t be included in the refreshed skills, as it was not used in the active period.
If SoI gets used during F5 period: It will be reset, but F5 will not be on cooldown when it is cast, as it will be set to the return skill.
If SoI gets used after F5 period: F5 will be refreshed, but then this returns back to the before F5 scenario.

At most, this gives you F5 refreshed once, assuming that F5 cannot be refreshed until it has reverted back to the 1st skill in it’s chain.

Yeah this is how works imo.

I thought that the Chronomancer was ridiculously upgraded from Mesmer already. From what I understood there should be more specializations just for Mesmer as well – in which case, if they are all that overpowered, then it’s probably just true that all specializations are going to be horribly broken. Let’s wait a bit for more news on other specializations first – anything involving Time is broken, but I’m sure other classes, such as Necromancer, will also be overpowered once specialized – reviving themselves as a zombie, going full Einherjar, or something I haven’t thought of.

On paper all classes are OP.

Belzebu.3912:

On paper all classes are OP.

Except necro :P

Smooth Penguin.5294:

While all these sound epic, I’m asking the Devs to consider how this will affect the meta for WvW and SPvP.

You think they wouldn’t unless you asked them to?

There doesn’t seem like many ways to counter the control of time, except for really high cool downs or major drawbacks to prevent constant use.

How can you possibly tell? I’d wait until we have actual data on things like casting times, cooldown times, traits and so on.

I thought that the Chronomancer was ridiculously upgraded from Mesmer already. From what I understood there should be more specializations just for Mesmer as well

There will be more than one elite specialization for all professions, eventually. HoT will only give us one elite specialization per profession.

in which case, if they are all that overpowered, then it’s probably just true that all specializations are going to be horribly broken.

The way they have presented them however is that there should still be a reason not to take elite specializations. Especially since they do not want people without HoT to be weaker than people with HoT. At the same time since the elite specializations are fresh and make use of newer technology they of course seem enticing to old players, as they should.

With all trait lines unlocked you will have 6, 5 core plus chrono. You can use any 3 at a time, and swap them out of combat.

I mean on paper, not in game haha.

On paper minions and DS sounds so OP, it is a 2nd HP bar over the normal HP bar and they have the highest HP pool possible AND minions attacking everywhere and tons of HP syphon, it is OP, no one can kill it.

I don’t get why they use clocks as imagery and as part of the shield, though. Clocks do not measure time: they measure themselves. And it is rather bold to use time as a resource when Time is simultaneous, an intricately structured jewel that humans insist on viewing one edge at a time, when the whole design is visible in every facet.

Did they say that you couldn’t Stun Break? If they did, I overlooked it.

Avoiding fatal blows by itself is not OP… Engi A.E.D.

If the time the first F5 skill and the second is short, and the cd of F5 is high enough then it won’t be too bad.

Problem may come depending on how much alacrity one has access to, but they should be able balance that with duration.

I’m not saying it isn’t powerful, but so far doesn’t look OP to me. Basically gives double spike capability, which other classes kinda already have. At least that’s my current view of it.

Um… Someone probably said this, but Continuum doesn’t refresh cooldowns, it resets them from the moment it began. At best, you can activate Continuum twice within 10 seconds.

Many people seem to be under a misunderstanding of how Continuum works, and that it’s really a hard mechanic to use to its potential, along with all the ways it can screw you over if its not careful. A true double-edged sword.

I read the new posts about the mesmer today. The new specialization skills sound awesome. Really. I can’t wait to play with it.

However, again, there is a lot of dependence upon shatter skills. I re-iterate my original question: why can’t illusions be invulnerable upon use of a shatter skill. In WvW and large scale PvE content, illusions die instantly and don’t connect to the target, thereby negating any shatter effects. This makes a lot of these new, awesome changes, as well as the old style dps, useless. The following is a thread I created in the mesmer forum. I love the profession and just want to try to bring awareness to this problem.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Make-illusions-invuln-upon-shatter-skill/first#post5022520

Please consider this. Thank you.

Double spiking is pretty powerful. A max Mesmer clone shatter x 2 would be enough to being any group down. In GW1 HoH, nearly all our builds had some type of coordinated spike. The only counter to that was a pro Monk with a trigger finger Infuse. In GW2, there is no targeted Infuse, only AOE water heals on blast or an evade utility skill.

I’ve been excited for this class since GW1

Or a simple dodge… or two.

It’s also been brought up that one may be able to actually do triple spike with use of SoI. That may be OP, but we’ll just have to wait and see.

I suppose this armor is new too…?

kitten,can’t wait to see Guardian’s spec armor,the mesmer one looks AMAZING!

As for the jumping off cliff and pinging back to the top: Necros can already do that, and its hilarious when used in EBG on someone. Make them chase and either they jump off too OR they run to edge, start to /laugh at you, then you ping behind them and fear them off cliff.

Fun times.

Oh no, something new with very little information and absolutely zero testing! It MUST be OP.

Seriously, we don’t even have the traits, or other class elite specialization, or number, or testing so why would we be calling OP? I think that term is overused anyway, but right now this is just ridiculous.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

As for the jumping off cliff and pinging back to the top: Necros can already do that, and its hilarious when used in EBG on someone. Make them chase and either they jump off too OR they run to edge, start to /laugh at you, then you ping behind them and fear them off cliff.

Fun times.

Get rekt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG_399O1epE

Why people creating such pointless threads calling for nerfs already? Just like it was with revenant. Now every week we will be reading how op is X spec blablabla. If everything is op, then its balanced right? L2p guys, thats all i have to say.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Why people creating such pointless threads calling for nerfs already? Just like it was with revenant. Now every week we will be reading how op is X spec blablabla. If everything is op, then its balanced right? L2p guys, thats all i have to say.

I never called for any nerfs. I’m simply starting the conversation on strategic game play, and how to counter a very very powerful mechanic.

Continuum Split is a shatter, the skill it turns into after the shatter (Continuum Shift) is not. Therefore the signet will not reset the shift component. The best you will achieve is two back to back uses of Continuum Split.

Also, like GrandHaven said, it may well be that the Chronomancer loses signets in place of wells. Either way, I do not believe we will be able to have infinite continuum shatters.

MelGT.8326:

phys.7689:

yeah but you have to look at what your giving up.

domination? 10 dmg percent while vuln, 15% illusion dmg, 25-50% minwrack dmg. interupt traits

dueling? blade training, numerous condi buffs, deceptive evasion (shatter fuel) harmonious mantras stacking dmg buff, phantsmal fury

illusions? all shatter buffs 15% faster cool downs on shatter skills (includes continum shift, which will probably have super long cool down) phantsmal haste.

power wise, these trait lines pack a huge punch, there will definately be builds that would be better of with these synergies.

HOWEVER they will be lot less interesting.

Why do you think you’re “giving all that up”? As far as I’m aware, you keep the first four trait lines, and only the last one gets swapped for the new elite specialization.

So instead of Illusions, you’ll probably have something like “Chonomancy”. You’ll still have Domination, Dueling, Chaos and Inspiration. I could be completely wrong, that’s just my understanding.

They’ve confirmed how it works. If you haven’t read the specialization core blog, read that first. If you have then what you do is you can choose EITHER three core specializations (use to be called train lines), OR 1 elite specialization and 2 core specialization.

So what they were getting at is that if you are a Chronomancer (the elite specialization) you would have to pick to give up at least 1 of the three specializations he mentioned)

Psionicists in Allods had the ability to jump back in time as well, and they weren’t ridiculously OP.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Double spiking is pretty powerful. A max Mesmer clone shatter x 2 would be enough to being any group down.

I suppose it depends on just how much time you have. You have to shatter in order to activate Continuum Split. With a 3 clone CS shatter, will there be enough time to get 3 more clones out and a Mind Wrack, before you Continuum Shift back?

Scoobaniec.9561:

If everything is op, then its balanced right?

Reminds me of “If everyone is special, then no one is special.”

Anyway, op, if this thread was supposed to be about something other than Chronomancer being OP, why did you title it, specifically, “Chronomance OP”. Oh, because you knew that was garner a large number of hits to your thread.

Stormy Dragon.9210:

My concern is that the elite specializations end up so powerful that you’re basically forced to play them whether you like them or not.

You aren’t forced to play anything build in this game. The only thing that is forced on you is if you want to do high up fractals that require agony resistance. Outside of that you can literally play whatever build/gear/crap you want and get away with it.

No comment….

12345..

Hm, I guess with all the position/wall/well based effects, the obvious answer is…

RANGER LONGBOW 4

Bearbow meta FTW

/merge topic

Ranger longbow is the answer to many caster type metas. With Mesmers having such a powerful time freeze effect, staying 1500+ range away will keep you alive.

I hope GM Chris can chime in, as he’s the expert with Bearbow maths.

MelGT.8326:

phys.7689:

yeah but you have to look at what your giving up.

domination? 10 dmg percent while vuln, 15% illusion dmg, 25-50% minwrack dmg. interupt traits

dueling? blade training, numerous condi buffs, deceptive evasion (shatter fuel) harmonious mantras stacking dmg buff, phantsmal fury

illusions? all shatter buffs 15% faster cool downs on shatter skills (includes continum shift, which will probably have super long cool down) phantsmal haste.

power wise, these trait lines pack a huge punch, there will definately be builds that would be better of with these synergies.

HOWEVER they will be lot less interesting.

Why do you think you’re “giving all that up”? As far as I’m aware, you keep the first four trait lines, and only the last one gets swapped for the new elite specialization.

So instead of Illusions, you’ll probably have something like “Chonomancy”. You’ll still have Domination, Dueling, Chaos and Inspiration. I could be completely wrong, that’s just my understanding.

i believe you can select any 3, including elite, but the point is you will be losing some powerful traits/synergies if you drop any line.

phys.7689:

i believe you can select any 3, including elite, but the point is you will be losing some powerful traits/synergies if you drop any line.

But we don’t know what the new trait line involves yet. It’s a bit presumptuous to think it will have no synergy at all with any of the other trait lines. I think the idea of an elite specialization is that is different to the base class. If you want the same synergy we have now, you don’t have to play as a Chronomancer. Mesmer will still be a thing, and viable.

And I apologize, I think I read your post wrong. I thought you meant that you thought you would lose all of the current Mesmer traits. I understand what you mean now, but we don’t know anything about the details of the new specialization yet, just the vague idea of how it works. I’m sure it will still have synergy with whatever else you chose. If not, then it’s been poorly designed.

Invictus.1503:

They’ve confirmed how it works. If you haven’t read the specialization core blog, read that first. If you have then what you do is you can choose EITHER three core specializations (use to be called train lines), OR 1 elite specialization and 2 core specialization.

So what they were getting at is that if you are a Chronomancer (the elite specialization) you would have to pick to give up at least 1 of the three specializations he mentioned)

But you’re still not giving anything up. Nothing is stopping anyone ignoring the Chronomancer specialization completely and playing as they do now if they don’t like it. It’s just a new way to play the class.

Yeah, its not that you are losing something. Its like me going “Hey i don’t want to play my bomb kit/power engie right now and want to play my condi stacking engie”. To do that i change my trait load out, armor and weapon set. That’s it.

If anything I want these new specializations to feel kind of OP in some ways. It means that base classes are going to have to readjust their meta/comfort zone a bit and older play styles will need to be altered for competitive play.

Now, do i think some of the new classes/specs will be OP in some ways? Sure, but we won’t know fully how until they come out and are played for a bit, and then we will see balance changes come out to deal with it.

Its still definitely too early though to say how these will play out.