Guild Wars 2

Hexalot.8194:

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

Menadena.7482:

Yargesh.4965:

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

I am trying to recall a single MMORPG where an expansion handed out everything you expected to get with it up front, rather than making you earn it. I can’t think of a single one, and this sense of entitlement just truly baffles me.

Entitlement?

We were told what to expect. People planned for that and did the work asked of them. Whether you liked it or not we knew the upper boundary.

Then they changed it. Not us.

What? They did not change anything since they have not until now given a number.

They stated world completion was the max. Until the datamine of 170 most people were assuming 100 HPs would be a good number to guess at. When we saw the 170 (which again many did not believe) and the progression for a typical profession I realized I could not get everything right away but about 120 would give me a good starting build.

Can you source that? Because i don’t think they said that, I think assumptions were made. That being the case, if they DID change that, because I won’t swear they didn’t, I have the following thoughts on that:

1. It IS uncool to change the info this late in the game. So if they said different before now, then yeah, I agree it’s uncool.

2. However, sometimes changes have to be made, for whatever reason: health of the game, technical issues, other stuff. It’s highly unlikely they are changing things just to make things a pain in the rear for us.

Wanna know something? I kinda thought we would have our elites unlocked if we had done all the hps in the core world, and I would have preferred it that way, so I could use my elites fully at the very beginning of HoT. That being the case, though, I don’t consider this a bad thing.

My problem is the massive rage we are seeing here. The sheer levels of it is ridiculous. If someone said “I’m not happy with this,” I could understand, but people are just burn-the-building-down angry, and it’s flat out unreasonable.

I do not recall the URL offhand but anet specifically said we could run the new content with elites if we had world completion.

Yes that’s correct. But… that was also around the time they stated you needed an additional 65 HPs to unlock the new core spec system. So basically anybody with World Completion were home free when they eventually release the Elite specs. But when they changed it so that just leveling to 80 would give you enough Hero Points to unlock core traits & utilities with no need for the additional 65 points, the whole “World Completion will unlock everything including elite specs” statement went out the window.

Unlock the elite spec, not entirely master it. I can unlock the elite spec and have it half mastered soon as I log in with my main. Unlocking it isn’t the same as getting everything in it.

I’ll pay 1 gold to the first person who can actually find a quote FROM ARENA NET that says that day 1 the elite spec could be entirely mastered.

My guess is that the time it takes people to get these hero points will be far less than the time they spend complaining about it on these forums.

Morfedel.4165:

Hexalot.8194:

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

Menadena.7482:

Yargesh.4965:

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

I am trying to recall a single MMORPG where an expansion handed out everything you expected to get with it up front, rather than making you earn it. I can’t think of a single one, and this sense of entitlement just truly baffles me.

Entitlement?

We were told what to expect. People planned for that and did the work asked of them. Whether you liked it or not we knew the upper boundary.

Then they changed it. Not us.

What? They did not change anything since they have not until now given a number.

They stated world completion was the max. Until the datamine of 170 most people were assuming 100 HPs would be a good number to guess at. When we saw the 170 (which again many did not believe) and the progression for a typical profession I realized I could not get everything right away but about 120 would give me a good starting build.

Can you source that? Because i don’t think they said that, I think assumptions were made. That being the case, if they DID change that, because I won’t swear they didn’t, I have the following thoughts on that:

1. It IS uncool to change the info this late in the game. So if they said different before now, then yeah, I agree it’s uncool.

2. However, sometimes changes have to be made, for whatever reason: health of the game, technical issues, other stuff. It’s highly unlikely they are changing things just to make things a pain in the rear for us.

Wanna know something? I kinda thought we would have our elites unlocked if we had done all the hps in the core world, and I would have preferred it that way, so I could use my elites fully at the very beginning of HoT. That being the case, though, I don’t consider this a bad thing.

My problem is the massive rage we are seeing here. The sheer levels of it is ridiculous. If someone said “I’m not happy with this,” I could understand, but people are just burn-the-building-down angry, and it’s flat out unreasonable.

I do not recall the URL offhand but anet specifically said we could run the new content with elites if we had world completion.

Yes that’s correct. But… that was also around the time they stated you needed an additional 65 HPs to unlock the new core spec system. So basically anybody with World Completion were home free when they eventually release the Elite specs. But when they changed it so that just leveling to 80 would give you enough Hero Points to unlock core traits & utilities with no need for the additional 65 points, the whole “World Completion will unlock everything including elite specs” statement went out the window.

Unlock the elite spec, not entirely master it. I can unlock the elite spec and have it half mastered soon as I log in with my main. Unlocking it isn’t the same as getting everything in it.

I’ll pay 1 gold to the first person who can actually find a quote FROM ARENA NET that says that day 1 the elite spec could be entirely mastered.

1 gold doesn’t sound very confident. How about upping that to 1000g.

Tim.6450:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I am hoping this is the approach they took, and based on the comment of ‘function over frill’, that would make sense.

I think I saw a picture of a the daredevil line where the minor adept trait was on the 3rd place so don’t expect much logic.

I think I saw the image you’re talking about. This one?
https://i.imgur.com/jKnfTdI.jpg

I’m hoping we’ve had some revision since that was found.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Should also point out that datamining from a month ago put us at 250 HP for the elite spec, which is more than the currently acquirable 214. Which already refutes Menadena’s statement.

Interestingly, if the Hero Point would keep their value of 1, then it would have require for someone with map completion a grand total of 36 new hero point to fully unlock the track. Now it has been "changed to 40 for people without map completion and 20 for the completionist.
They apparently (remember that data mining is not necessarily the final plan … or we would already have VIP) shifted the progression flow so that those who have the 214 HP will not only have to unlock skins but also a bit of the Espec mechanics.

Tim.6450:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It could well be set up to be front loaded in that the easiest things to get are the traits and skills. The part that requires the most points could be the cosmetic items and runes. This setup is actually how they have most of the game set up. You get the core skills and traits before you reach 80, way before level 80 for parts of it. But to make your char look good and get cosmetics is the grindy part. I have a feeling that most of the people who play the game can get the important parts unlocked at launch with the full unlock optional.

Read my previous post on this thread, the bolded part will explain it. Most likely you will still have some grandmasters (if not all) and an elite to do.

Some grandmasters still needed? All the core ones unlock at level 80 automatically, completely. That leaves just the elite to get and that only has one. The post that LanfearShadowflame has is about the elite spec only.

Yargesh.4965:

Another storm in a teacup event. Wonder what the next end of the world will be?

I think people haven’t realized Revenant wont start at 80, so they are paying for new content yet forced to go do the same they have been doing for 3 years to get it to 80. /s

localghost.9145:

I strongly dislike that I’m buying an expansion and then I have to do farming on all my alts to access the new content I bought the expansion for, the elite specializations. For me personally that seems more like a chore than fun gameplay. I have spent a lot of time running around PvE gathering hero points on one of the several alts I have and have reached something like 120 hero points. That’s not fun for me. Even if the ones in the jungle (a zone that doesn’t hold alot of interest for me personally) are worth more, and even if you can buy them with badges of honor, these are just alternative ways of grinding instead of just playing. I don’t know any good alternative solutions though. Maybe just let people play the content they have bought the expansion for and leave all the grinding to unlock the new skins?

You know, you can use this “argument” for literally everything else coming in the expansion.

/begin sarcasm

I can’t believe I couldn’t unlock every single hero until after finishing Nightfall and EoTN! Why couldn’t they give me every hero so I could play through all of the content with everything unlocked???

What do you mean I have to level up my heroes and unlock each hero for each of my individual characters???

/end sarcasm

Oh wait, this is GW2. We’ve seen this before with other content and it wasn’t a huge detriment. We’ll live through this too.

Especially if you think of it this way: this is almost exactly how GW2 functioned when it first came out. You needed skill points to unlock skills, and you got skill points by leveling up or doing the skill challenges out in the world. When first playing the game you did not have everything unlocked and tomes of knowledge didn’t exist. Leveling a character required playing the game, and you literally couldn’t have everything unlocked from the get-go to play through the content with all things unlocked.

Same deal here.

Ranael.6423:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Should also point out that datamining from a month ago put us at 250 HP for the elite spec, which is more than the currently acquirable 214. Which already refutes Menadena’s statement.

Interestingly, if the Hero Point would keep their value of 1, then it would have require for someone with map completion a grand total of 36 new hero point to fully unlock the track. Now it has been "changed to 40 for people without map completion and 20 for the completionist.
They apparently (remember that data mining is not necessarily the final plan … or we would already have VIP) shifted the progression flow so that those who have the 214 HP will not only have to unlock skins but also a bit of the Espec mechanics.

I’m actually thinking their view on HP’s changed a bit due to the uproar back when they announced the specialization changes. At that point, just being 80 wasn’t enough to get all core traits and skills, we needed something like 65 challenges as well. However, the statement was made that those with world completion would have more than enough points for all of the core skills and traits as well as the elite. I’m guessing the change to “ok, u’ll have enough points at 80 for all the core” in conjunction with not wanting people to just unlock everything right off the bat are the biggest factors in the MHP = 10 and 400 HP total decisions.

ChavaStark.9147:

ColinJohanson.2394:

PlatinumMember.5274:

Unless I am mistaken just to unlock half of the training line, we need 212 hero points?

It’s 400 points total to unlock everything in an elite spec training line – I just can’t remember off hand how many points folks have currently if they have done all the existing ones, but it’s right around 200. The rest you’ll need to earn in jungle to unlock the deeper skills/traits/etc. in the training line.

You only need 60 hero points to begin using your elite spec, the points you spend after that continue to unlock more skills, traits, skins, etc.

Again, hero challenges are worth 10 points each in the jungle. So no you don’t need to go do 200-400 jungle challenges.

Okay Collin literally said hero challenges are worth 10 points each in the jungle. so we need to do 10 challenges per 100 and that means 40 challenges for the 400. So stop freaking out this is not as bad as it seems. If we do not have a lot of challenges in the jungle and I highly doubt it then it is something to freak over. But right at the moment I do not find this to be a grind and it is not even that bad.

I think it’s naive to think that hero challenges worth 10 points are going to be as simple as walking into queensdale, and communing with the centaur ‘hero challenge’ that is worth 1 point. We know masteries are going to be required to fully get around the new maps. I’m hoping that none of the hero challenges are locked behind maxed masteries, but even so, I’m willing to bet that at least some will require masteries to get to them, and that just adds to the ‘grind’ aspect if you want to get the elite spec quickly.

By definition you would be grinding, even if you don’t find it as such, if you want to get elite specs for multiple characters, because you would be doing the same task over and over again. Again, the only way this is ‘ok’ is if only the skins are locked behind most of this, but, we were flat out told, it will cost 60 hero points just to start as the elite spec, that is, just to have the minor trait that allows you to ‘be’ that elite spec. It appears that we may have to also waste hero points on skins just to keep getting other traits/abilities. While it is possible, I’m doubting that the final unlocks, the 2 skins, are going to be worth more than every other unlock combined. That is, if that picture is right, but it pretty much fits what Colin said. Except that the runes and sigils are unlocked before the final 2 skins, which, why would I want these special things before I can really ‘play’ the spec? More stuff to carry around lol.

Of course an MMO needs a grind, but the grind should be optional. In this, if you want to play part of HoT that they hyped up a lot, the elite specs, you will have to rush the maps.

Swagger.1459:

I think everything should be unlocked when we hit 80 and we should have the best statistical gear by then. Grinding should be left to cosmetics. Good idea???

Add in, we should hit 80 within a few hours after starting the game, all waypoints unlocked as well.

ScribeTheMad.7614:

I’ll simplify it for you.

I wanted to play the new content as my Herald.

Not play the new content to get a herald at the end.

But you don’t decide how the game is developed, you can merely offer suggestions.

Myrden.2456:

Vayne.8563:

Swagger.1459:

Vayne.8563:

IchbinVol.5407:

We’re just tired of the goal post, constantly moving. “Oh hey, I saved up 100g for that shiny new precursor!” Economy Change! Precursors now 1000g!! “Oh wow, it took awhile, but I finally got that map completion, and all the hero pts!” Screw You, DO MOAR! :’(

Its just disheartening. We were under the impression that veteran players would already have enough pts, if they did map completion. Now, it just feels like a punishment, more than some excuse to play more. As if we wouldn’t play as much… We just want to play the content, in our elite spec.

The goal post NEVER moved. Someone datamined some stuff, and everyone took it as gospel. When did Anet ever change the goal post on this?

In fact, by giving us 10 points for every hero point in HoT, they’ve made it very easy to level up your elite specialization.

They didn’t plant the goal post until now so it comes off as being intentionally shady.

Well that’s great for people who like pve… Buy hey look, you can level up 400 times per character in wvw right?

Always remember vayne, you can always measure success by asking yourself “is it fun?”. For many players this will not be considered a success story filled with “fun”.

They also didn’t tell people until recently that you could get this playing WvW or that the hero points in HoT would give you 10 points each and there’s enough of them to give you your entire spec. That’s pretty generous. 40 hero point challenges in HoT is a lot less than 400 in the open world.

I don’t think anyone expected that.

And let’s not forget, some of that is skins, not skills. You don’t even need all 400 to get you entire usable spec unlocked.

I think many people — especially those who keep saying people are whining — continue to forget about alts. So, if I wanted to get the elite spec for all the professions, that’s 3600 hero points I have to farm. And, yes, at that point it IS farming.

You chose to have several alts, when you made that choice you didn’t get those alts at 80 either, you had to level them up, it’s not unreasonable to expect any sort of character horizontal progression the same way you had to progress your character to get them to 80.

Literally this whole thread is just people asking to dumb it down to everyone else because they decided to go overboard with alts.

Nausicca.6038:

When Colin put his gun on my head to force me buying the xpac, he never said I had to play the game to unlock stuff.
I just want instant gratification. I don’t want to work in a videogame. Give meh the new legendaries now. Yes, before the launch. And I want an “instawin” skill.
And oh I want to use all the masteries at the same time, with all the stats in the game. When I’ll raid, I want to be able to click 1 and oneshot the last boss, who will drop me a full set of legendary armor, not the BS precursor.
Colin, plz, do it. Or I’ll quit ( but still play but ya know I’m a forum warrior, I have my pride).
No $$$ for you ever ANet. Nah.

Brb, diaper is full.

I’ve read some pretty valid and well put points from both sides of the fence, no need to derail it with fictional over-exaggeration and belittlement.

I have (I think) about 215 hero points. I was hoping to play my Reaper in the Halloween Labyrinth this year.

Unfortunately, that leaves me with limited points to spend after unlocking Reaper (and exp in the labyrinth itself will not help me).

I don’t care about skills, but hopefully, my 215 points can unlock reaper and get me three traits to use (I don’t really care which three at the start, but I’ll need a minor, major, and grandmaster).

I suspect the unique Reaper gear (weapon and armor shroud item) will be expensive and at the end of the track, so maybe I can get started right away. Here’s hoping.

Coulter.2315:

ScribeTheMad.7614:

I’ll simplify it for you.

I wanted to play the new content as my Herald.

Not play the new content to get a herald at the end.

Ok lets take this example.

You want to play Herald in HoT this means you’re starting a NEW Rev, right?

You now need to level it (with tomes or regularly), by leveling you GAIN Hero points.

You reach 80 having SAVED enough Hero points to unlock Herald’s skills, traits etc.

You now SPEND those Hero points on Herald mechanics.

Congratulations you now get to play HoT as a Herald.

You are required to unlock ALL other trait lines completely before you are allowed to put a single point into elite.

This was made absolutely and painfully clear by Colin himself.

If I could ignore trait lines I don’t want then I wouldn’t really have nearly as much an issue with the current setup, because I could take one complete elite build of my choice to start with.
Then as I explore the jungle I pick up more points and can experiment with other traits as I unlock them.

So I take my new rev (since It’s impossible to make one until Friday it kinda has to be a new one now doesn’t it?)
Insta 80 with tomes, and now I have to spend most of those hero points on traits I don’t currently want.
How many does that leave me with?
Cause it takes 60 just to unlock the Herald at all.

nekretaal.6485:

I have (I think) about 215 hero points. I was hoping to play my Reaper in the Halloween Labyrinth this year.

Unfortunately, that leaves me with limited points to spend after unlocking Reaper (and exp in the labyrinth itself will not help me).

I don’t care about skills, but hopefully, my 215 points can unlock reaper and get me three traits to use (I don’t really care which three at the start, but I’ll need a minor, major, and grandmaster).

I was hoping to play reaper in the halloween content too, but sadly I don’t have WC on either of my necros. Depending on how the elite is spread for point requirement, maybe I’ll give tempest a whirl in labyrinth. I do have WC on my primary ele.

arkealia.2713:

So you want elite spec unlocked right away? With all skins unlocked as well including all new legendaries? billions of each mats in the bank? All maps unlocked with an instant teleport to wherever you want option? Dev Menu? OHKO button? Cheat mode?

What the puppy?

Absolutely NOBODY is asking for skins and items to be giving to us. What we are asking for is a REASONABLE path to the specs to use to get them. The only quibble is what is the definition of reasonable (ie, hero point cost) but the absolute upper end is how many points you can EARN in the existing zones as that is what we were told.

Hexalot.8194:

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

Menadena.7482:

Yargesh.4965:

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

I am trying to recall a single MMORPG where an expansion handed out everything you expected to get with it up front, rather than making you earn it. I can’t think of a single one, and this sense of entitlement just truly baffles me.

Entitlement?

We were told what to expect. People planned for that and did the work asked of them. Whether you liked it or not we knew the upper boundary.

Then they changed it. Not us.

What? They did not change anything since they have not until now given a number.

They stated world completion was the max. Until the datamine of 170 most people were assuming 100 HPs would be a good number to guess at. When we saw the 170 (which again many did not believe) and the progression for a typical profession I realized I could not get everything right away but about 120 would give me a good starting build.

Can you source that? Because i don’t think they said that, I think assumptions were made. That being the case, if they DID change that, because I won’t swear they didn’t, I have the following thoughts on that:

1. It IS uncool to change the info this late in the game. So if they said different before now, then yeah, I agree it’s uncool.

2. However, sometimes changes have to be made, for whatever reason: health of the game, technical issues, other stuff. It’s highly unlikely they are changing things just to make things a pain in the rear for us.

Wanna know something? I kinda thought we would have our elites unlocked if we had done all the hps in the core world, and I would have preferred it that way, so I could use my elites fully at the very beginning of HoT. That being the case, though, I don’t consider this a bad thing.

My problem is the massive rage we are seeing here. The sheer levels of it is ridiculous. If someone said “I’m not happy with this,” I could understand, but people are just burn-the-building-down angry, and it’s flat out unreasonable.

I do not recall the URL offhand but anet specifically said we could run the new content with elites if we had world completion.

Yes that’s correct. But… that was also around the time they stated you needed an additional 65 HPs to unlock the new core spec system. So basically anybody with World Completion were home free when they eventually release the Elite specs. But when they changed it so that just leveling to 80 would give you enough Hero Points to unlock core traits & utilities with no need for the additional 65 points, the whole “World Completion will unlock everything including elite specs” statement went out the window.

Thought they said that doing world completion would go along way to unlocking all of your elite spec. When did it change to unlocks everything? Ether way I’m glade I get to play the game in a way that lets my character grow, In a way that lets me slowly become a Reaper. I honestly dont want “hay look a jungle” and then “think I’m just going to pick up this great sword now and swing it at things”

Menadena.7482:

arkealia.2713:

So you want elite spec unlocked right away? With all skins unlocked as well including all new legendaries? billions of each mats in the bank? All maps unlocked with an instant teleport to wherever you want option? Dev Menu? OHKO button? Cheat mode?

What the puppy?

Absolutely NOBODY is asking for skins and items to be giving to us. What we are asking for is a REASONABLE path to the specs to use to get them. The only quibble is what is the definition of reasonable (ie, hero point cost) but the absolute upper end is how many points you can EARN in the existing zones as that is what we were told.

It’s a 100% reasonable path, the problem is people with alts that only want to do 1 character’s worth of effort to unlock everything.

PopeUrban.2578:

Black Box.9312:

PopeUrban.2578:

The people complaining about this are literally complaining that character progression systems scale linearly relative to the number of characters you want to progress.

Next you’ll be asking for waypoints to be account unlocks.

Even with your assumption that everyone is only worried about having to grind alts aside (Protip: That’s not the only reason people are unhappy about this), many people have already progressed their characters. Not everyone enjoys being told that the work that they did amounts to nothing.

People who want more “progression” can feel free to make a new character and start over. The rest of us would just like to be able to complete the new content with the elite spec of our choice fully fleshed out from the start. I’m not very satisfied with the thought of finally fully unlocking the Herald, only to realize that after rushing through the content and not having any fun that there’s none of it left to complete with my fancy new e-spec.

Elite specs were, from the very first reveal always advertised as anet’s new method of ongoing character progression

Not a thing they hand you as soon as it hits live, but progression That is used as the way to add new character build options.

The breakup of skill points and miyani currency was done specifically for this reason, just like the specialization system was done specifically for this reason. making hero points a limited commodity and converting all excess skill points from the old system was also done specifically for this reason. The whole game was redesigned around this progression system months ago, alongside very detailed blog posts as to why.

They said this a whole lot during the trait update, the reveal of elite specs as a system, and continually during all the “hoT is really about designing expandable systems we will continue to use in the future.”

Again, they specifically stated progression is a thing they want to be ongoing but that they want to do it without a vertical gear treadmill

What part of any of the information we’ve had over the past year gave you the idea that elite specs weren’t designed from the ground up as a progression system?

It’s literally the GW2 version of adding new skill trainers and secondary class options. They’re major feature updates, intended to give characters additional horizontal avenues of progression beyond the previous limitations.

I really, for the life of me, don’t understand what people are so up in arms about.

It’s almost as if you expected to be at the end of expansion character progression the day the expansion released. That was never advertised or even implied. How everyone got it in their heads in the first place that they’d be running around in full on elite specs outside of sPvP is beyond me. It’s not how the game has ever worked, or has even ever been advertised as an intent

They intend that you complete new content to access new character build options

And when the next elite spec is released, you can bet it will come alongside new PvE maps and new WvW angry letters corresponding to those maps. It is literally half of the content of all open world maps moving forward by design because it was the only part of world completion that was meaningful aside from getting achievements in the first place

The other half of the system is masteries, and masteries are the account end of that progression system. This is the character end. The game is full of complimentary systems like these, generally limiting things useful across all characters as account systems (bank tabs, crafting, etc.) so that you don’t end up doing the same unlocks on wildly different characters, and things useful only on a given character (bag space, profession skill unlocks, gear) as character systems. In general the account unlocks help facilitate faster progress through character systems. The relationship of masteries to elite specs is no different.

Source? As far as I’ve read into, masteries were the only source of “progression” that we’d be getting in HoT. If they had said anything about elite specs requiring a grind that far exceeds anything possible in the base game, then people would have voiced their outcry much sooner and would not have bothered themselves to rigorously complete the map on as many characters as they possibly can for the exact reason of avoiding the extra grind now so that they can enjoy the new content the way that they want to.

Someone else in this thread brought up a great point regarding the artificial inflation of hero points as well: What happens when the next expansion and round of elite specs is released? Will each elite spec cost 4,000 hero points, with each challenge in the new zones being worth 100 points each? That’s a great way to ensure that nobody will ever be ahead of the curve, but it’s also a great way to ensure that nobody will care about any previous content once new stuff is released. It really ends up with an effect no different than if straight-up vertical progression were implemented in this game. The only difference is that instead of inferior skills with lower damage numbers, we have inferior content with devalued progression points that nobody will ever want to touch again because the new stuff has literally 10 times more of a reward for what will likely amount to roughly the same amount of effort.

Anet is setting a horrendous precedent with this. People who wanted to grind their way through HoT for the new elite specs could have freely done so by their own will. With the way they’re going about it now, however, we’re basically being told that any of our previous work amounts to nothing, and that there’s no reason to ever touch the base game content beyond the bare minimum. Why would you ever want to do map completion anymore, when you can achieve better results with 10% of the time and effort required in the jungle?

This is a horrendous design choice, and is a textbook example of exactly what not to do when designing an expansion for a game. People are going to rush through the new challenges while avoiding anything else, leaving any sort of extra group content to languish. Launch is now going to be an absolute mess, because they’ve literally devalued anything that isn’t a jungle challenge by a factor of 10.

ScribeTheMad.7614:

Coulter.2315:

ScribeTheMad.7614:

I’ll simplify it for you.

I wanted to play the new content as my Herald.

Not play the new content to get a herald at the end.

Ok lets take this example.

You want to play Herald in HoT this means you’re starting a NEW Rev, right?

You now need to level it (with tomes or regularly), by leveling you GAIN Hero points.

You reach 80 having SAVED enough Hero points to unlock Herald’s skills, traits etc.

You now SPEND those Hero points on Herald mechanics.

Congratulations you now get to play HoT as a Herald.

You are required to unlock ALL other trait lines completely before you are allowed to put a single point into elite.

This was made absolutely and painfully clear by Colin himself.

If I could ignore trait lines I don’t want then I wouldn’t really have nearly as much an issue with the current setup, because I could take one complete elite build of my choice to start with.
Then as I explore the jungle I pick up more points and can experiment with other traits as I unlock them.

So I take my new rev (since It’s impossible to make one until Friday it kinda has to be a new one now doesn’t it?)
Insta 80 with tomes, and now I have to spend most of those hero points on traits I don’t currently want.
How many does that leave me with?
Cause it takes 60 just to unlock the Herald at all.

I just tombed a necro to 80. still in queensdale and all skills and trait lines unlocked. you will have 0 HP remaining after so youll need to get 6 of the HP in maguuma to unlock you herald

Farming, time, and effort aren’t the problem, ludicrous amounts of it are.

It’s the essential truth of all MMOs.
You work your way through the content to earn gear upgrades that would have been really handy during that content.

Dhampyr.2813:

Hexalot.8194:

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

Menadena.7482:

Yargesh.4965:

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

I am trying to recall a single MMORPG where an expansion handed out everything you expected to get with it up front, rather than making you earn it. I can’t think of a single one, and this sense of entitlement just truly baffles me.

Entitlement?

We were told what to expect. People planned for that and did the work asked of them. Whether you liked it or not we knew the upper boundary.

Then they changed it. Not us.

What? They did not change anything since they have not until now given a number.

They stated world completion was the max. Until the datamine of 170 most people were assuming 100 HPs would be a good number to guess at. When we saw the 170 (which again many did not believe) and the progression for a typical profession I realized I could not get everything right away but about 120 would give me a good starting build.

Can you source that? Because i don’t think they said that, I think assumptions were made. That being the case, if they DID change that, because I won’t swear they didn’t, I have the following thoughts on that:

1. It IS uncool to change the info this late in the game. So if they said different before now, then yeah, I agree it’s uncool.

2. However, sometimes changes have to be made, for whatever reason: health of the game, technical issues, other stuff. It’s highly unlikely they are changing things just to make things a pain in the rear for us.

Wanna know something? I kinda thought we would have our elites unlocked if we had done all the hps in the core world, and I would have preferred it that way, so I could use my elites fully at the very beginning of HoT. That being the case, though, I don’t consider this a bad thing.

My problem is the massive rage we are seeing here. The sheer levels of it is ridiculous. If someone said “I’m not happy with this,” I could understand, but people are just burn-the-building-down angry, and it’s flat out unreasonable.

I do not recall the URL offhand but anet specifically said we could run the new content with elites if we had world completion.

Yes that’s correct. But… that was also around the time they stated you needed an additional 65 HPs to unlock the new core spec system. So basically anybody with World Completion were home free when they eventually release the Elite specs. But when they changed it so that just leveling to 80 would give you enough Hero Points to unlock core traits & utilities with no need for the additional 65 points, the whole “World Completion will unlock everything including elite specs” statement went out the window.

Thought they said that doing world completion would go along way to unlocking all of your elite spec. When did it change to unlocks everything? Ether way I’m glade I get to play the game in a way that lets my character grow, In a way that lets me slowly become a Reaper. I honestly dont want “hay look a jungle” and then “think I’m just going to pick up this great sword now and swing it at things”

Well you’re out of luck. It will literally only take 60 HPs for any Necro to “pick up that Great Sword and start swinging”. Sure, you don’t get all the traits to really make the Great Sword shine right off the bat. But the Great Sword’s 5 skills will still be unlocked for you to have fun with.

Hexalot.8194:

Dhampyr.2813:

Hexalot.8194:

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

Menadena.7482:

Yargesh.4965:

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

I am trying to recall a single MMORPG where an expansion handed out everything you expected to get with it up front, rather than making you earn it. I can’t think of a single one, and this sense of entitlement just truly baffles me.

Entitlement?

We were told what to expect. People planned for that and did the work asked of them. Whether you liked it or not we knew the upper boundary.

Then they changed it. Not us.

What? They did not change anything since they have not until now given a number.

They stated world completion was the max. Until the datamine of 170 most people were assuming 100 HPs would be a good number to guess at. When we saw the 170 (which again many did not believe) and the progression for a typical profession I realized I could not get everything right away but about 120 would give me a good starting build.

Can you source that? Because i don’t think they said that, I think assumptions were made. That being the case, if they DID change that, because I won’t swear they didn’t, I have the following thoughts on that:

1. It IS uncool to change the info this late in the game. So if they said different before now, then yeah, I agree it’s uncool.

2. However, sometimes changes have to be made, for whatever reason: health of the game, technical issues, other stuff. It’s highly unlikely they are changing things just to make things a pain in the rear for us.

Wanna know something? I kinda thought we would have our elites unlocked if we had done all the hps in the core world, and I would have preferred it that way, so I could use my elites fully at the very beginning of HoT. That being the case, though, I don’t consider this a bad thing.

My problem is the massive rage we are seeing here. The sheer levels of it is ridiculous. If someone said “I’m not happy with this,” I could understand, but people are just burn-the-building-down angry, and it’s flat out unreasonable.

I do not recall the URL offhand but anet specifically said we could run the new content with elites if we had world completion.

Yes that’s correct. But… that was also around the time they stated you needed an additional 65 HPs to unlock the new core spec system. So basically anybody with World Completion were home free when they eventually release the Elite specs. But when they changed it so that just leveling to 80 would give you enough Hero Points to unlock core traits & utilities with no need for the additional 65 points, the whole “World Completion will unlock everything including elite specs” statement went out the window.

Thought they said that doing world completion would go along way to unlocking all of your elite spec. When did it change to unlocks everything? Ether way I’m glade I get to play the game in a way that lets my character grow, In a way that lets me slowly become a Reaper. I honestly dont want “hay look a jungle” and then “think I’m just going to pick up this great sword now and swing it at things”

Well you’re out of luck. It will literally only take 60 HPs for any Necro to “pick up that Great Sword and start swinging”. Sure, you don’t get all the traits to really make the Great Sword shine right off the bat. But the Great Sword’s 5 skills will still be unlocked for you to have fun with.

kind of mine point. that exactly what i want

Then you have to go out and learn it. The skills are taught, just like all other skills. Just like everything else in the game, you have to earn it, which is normally how it is.

Hexalot.8194:

Dhampyr.2813:

Hexalot.8194:

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

Menadena.7482:

Yargesh.4965:

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

I am trying to recall a single MMORPG where an expansion handed out everything you expected to get with it up front, rather than making you earn it. I can’t think of a single one, and this sense of entitlement just truly baffles me.

Entitlement?

We were told what to expect. People planned for that and did the work asked of them. Whether you liked it or not we knew the upper boundary.

Then they changed it. Not us.

What? They did not change anything since they have not until now given a number.

They stated world completion was the max. Until the datamine of 170 most people were assuming 100 HPs would be a good number to guess at. When we saw the 170 (which again many did not believe) and the progression for a typical profession I realized I could not get everything right away but about 120 would give me a good starting build.

Can you source that? Because i don’t think they said that, I think assumptions were made. That being the case, if they DID change that, because I won’t swear they didn’t, I have the following thoughts on that:

1. It IS uncool to change the info this late in the game. So if they said different before now, then yeah, I agree it’s uncool.

2. However, sometimes changes have to be made, for whatever reason: health of the game, technical issues, other stuff. It’s highly unlikely they are changing things just to make things a pain in the rear for us.

Wanna know something? I kinda thought we would have our elites unlocked if we had done all the hps in the core world, and I would have preferred it that way, so I could use my elites fully at the very beginning of HoT. That being the case, though, I don’t consider this a bad thing.

My problem is the massive rage we are seeing here. The sheer levels of it is ridiculous. If someone said “I’m not happy with this,” I could understand, but people are just burn-the-building-down angry, and it’s flat out unreasonable.

I do not recall the URL offhand but anet specifically said we could run the new content with elites if we had world completion.

Yes that’s correct. But… that was also around the time they stated you needed an additional 65 HPs to unlock the new core spec system. So basically anybody with World Completion were home free when they eventually release the Elite specs. But when they changed it so that just leveling to 80 would give you enough Hero Points to unlock core traits & utilities with no need for the additional 65 points, the whole “World Completion will unlock everything including elite specs” statement went out the window.

Thought they said that doing world completion would go along way to unlocking all of your elite spec. When did it change to unlocks everything? Ether way I’m glade I get to play the game in a way that lets my character grow, In a way that lets me slowly become a Reaper. I honestly dont want “hay look a jungle” and then “think I’m just going to pick up this great sword now and swing it at things”

Well you’re out of luck. It will literally only take 60 HPs for any Necro to “pick up that Great Sword and start swinging”. Sure, you don’t get all the traits to really make the Great Sword shine right off the bat. But the Great Sword’s 5 skills will still be unlocked for you to have fun with.

I don’t care about shield on my mesmer as I do about new utilities. See, the spec is a package of traits/skills/weap9ns, not just a weapon.

Yes, because I’m sure everyone wants to play with 2/3 of a build at level 80 through content that’s supposedly more difficult than anything we’ve had previously.

I just wanted to experience the new content as the new elite specializations.

I really hope the first 200 points unlock all traits/skills and the last 200 unlock cosmetics. If they are interweaved together and it will take 400 points to unlock all traits and skills I will be very disappointed.

fireflyry.7023:

Nausicca.6038:

When Colin put his gun on my head to force me buying the xpac, he never said I had to play the game to unlock stuff.
I just want instant gratification. I don’t want to work in a videogame. Give meh the new legendaries now. Yes, before the launch. And I want an “instawin” skill.
And oh I want to use all the masteries at the same time, with all the stats in the game. When I’ll raid, I want to be able to click 1 and oneshot the last boss, who will drop me a full set of legendary armor, not the BS precursor.
Colin, plz, do it. Or I’ll quit ( but still play but ya know I’m a forum warrior, I have my pride).
No $$$ for you ever ANet. Nah.

Brb, diaper is full.

I’ve read some pretty valid and well put points from both sides of the fence, no need to derail it with fictional over-exaggeration and belittlement.

Why not, that’s all that keeps getting thrown at many. That, and the whole ‘silver platter’ ‘silver spoon’ and ‘entitlement’, when that isn’t even what is being said.

You know, it’s almost funny.

There are people essentially calling us entitled spoiled brats, yet they are hypocrites. They are saying to shut up, yet they themselves have complained on these forums.

Of course it’s buried, but I’ve already decided how I’m going to deal with it, which will be to not bother for anything but rev for the foreseeable future. I’ll take it from there, because I’m not wanting to ruin the content by seeking out hero points (which I fully expect at least some to be locked behind masteries).

Fernling.1729:

I just wanted to experience the new content as the new elite specializations.
I’m already bored of grinding hero points on all my alts and I haven’t even started on the first one yet.
I really hope the first 200 points unlock all traits/skills and the last 200 unlock cosmetics. If they are interweaved together and it will take 400 points to unlock all traits and skills I will be very disappointed.

Then prepare to be disappointed. I’m pretty sure somebody on here already quoted Colin I think as saying 200 HPs will only get you about halfway through the elite trait line alone.

Sytherek.7689:

Hexalot.8194:

Dhampyr.2813:

Hexalot.8194:

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

Menadena.7482:

Yargesh.4965:

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

I am trying to recall a single MMORPG where an expansion handed out everything you expected to get with it up front, rather than making you earn it. I can’t think of a single one, and this sense of entitlement just truly baffles me.

Entitlement?

We were told what to expect. People planned for that and did the work asked of them. Whether you liked it or not we knew the upper boundary.

Then they changed it. Not us.

What? They did not change anything since they have not until now given a number.

They stated world completion was the max. Until the datamine of 170 most people were assuming 100 HPs would be a good number to guess at. When we saw the 170 (which again many did not believe) and the progression for a typical profession I realized I could not get everything right away but about 120 would give me a good starting build.

Can you source that? Because i don’t think they said that, I think assumptions were made. That being the case, if they DID change that, because I won’t swear they didn’t, I have the following thoughts on that:

1. It IS uncool to change the info this late in the game. So if they said different before now, then yeah, I agree it’s uncool.

2. However, sometimes changes have to be made, for whatever reason: health of the game, technical issues, other stuff. It’s highly unlikely they are changing things just to make things a pain in the rear for us.

Wanna know something? I kinda thought we would have our elites unlocked if we had done all the hps in the core world, and I would have preferred it that way, so I could use my elites fully at the very beginning of HoT. That being the case, though, I don’t consider this a bad thing.

My problem is the massive rage we are seeing here. The sheer levels of it is ridiculous. If someone said “I’m not happy with this,” I could understand, but people are just burn-the-building-down angry, and it’s flat out unreasonable.

I do not recall the URL offhand but anet specifically said we could run the new content with elites if we had world completion.

Yes that’s correct. But… that was also around the time they stated you needed an additional 65 HPs to unlock the new core spec system. So basically anybody with World Completion were home free when they eventually release the Elite specs. But when they changed it so that just leveling to 80 would give you enough Hero Points to unlock core traits & utilities with no need for the additional 65 points, the whole “World Completion will unlock everything including elite specs” statement went out the window.

Thought they said that doing world completion would go along way to unlocking all of your elite spec. When did it change to unlocks everything? Ether way I’m glade I get to play the game in a way that lets my character grow, In a way that lets me slowly become a Reaper. I honestly dont want “hay look a jungle” and then “think I’m just going to pick up this great sword now and swing it at things”

Well you’re out of luck. It will literally only take 60 HPs for any Necro to “pick up that Great Sword and start swinging”. Sure, you don’t get all the traits to really make the Great Sword shine right off the bat. But the Great Sword’s 5 skills will still be unlocked for you to have fun with.

I don’t care about shield on my mesmer as I do about new utilities. See, the spec is a package of traits/skills/weap9ns, not just a weapon.

Not denying it. I was just pointing out the myth about needing the entire elite line just to use the new weapons.

This is just like what happened with the Tempest all over again. People took the datamined info as set in stone and once their anticipations were shattered, they got angry. I can certainly understand though, having myself already gathered 170HP for each alt in anticipation from the datamined info, being told so late that the final number is actually 400 feels like Anet deliberately moved the goalpost farther away.

Having slept on it to calm down however, I think most of us are fine. If you gathered 170HP, the gap to 200-214 isn’t that wide and I managed it in about an hour and a half. Plus I really think the final number to unlock the entire Espec, without the cosmetic stuff (most of which are kinda boring anyway), is actually 300HP give or take. So really you might just have to do 10 more HP challenges in HoT to get the full Espec.

Though I do hope that they’ll at least let us unlock most if not all of the traits (just traits, no healing, utility, or elite skills and skins) with the first 200HP so we can at least run around HoT with the new weapon skills and not feel weaker for it due to essentially running with a near empty specialization slot.

I’m on the fence with this one but Anet does itself no favors with it’s BWE’s and using this as a selling point for pre-purchase. To me this is the catalyst of much of this complaint and I’m still of the opinion beta testing should be done by beta testers, not used as a sales pitch to customers.

I’ve played a fair few games where at the starting level your a fully kitted out uber-beast of death slaying everything in sight in some huge awe-inspiring battle with all skills unlocked and all weapons blazing full bore. Wahoo this game is friggin amazing!!!

end flashback/dream sequence

You wake up at level one naked holding a wet noodle realizing it will be a LONG time before you feel that way again.

From what I can garner this is exactly what has happened here with giving players everything for nothing to play with, then taking it away. Sure might work ok in an offline RPG but in this genre it just seems to kitten a lot of people off.

Coulter.2315:

ScribeTheMad.7614:

I’ll simplify it for you.

I wanted to play the new content as my Herald.

Not play the new content to get a herald at the end.

Ok lets take this example.

You want to play Herald in HoT this means you’re starting a NEW Rev, right?

You now need to level it (with tomes or regularly), by leveling you GAIN Hero points.

You reach 80 having SAVED enough Hero points to unlock Herald’s skills, traits etc.

You now SPEND those Hero points on Herald mechanics.

Congratulations you now get to play HoT as a Herald.

Nope, you have to unlock all the other lines first. Now we are back at this thread.

Knighthonor.4061:

Healix.5819:

Knighthonor.4061:

How many Hero Points are in the new HoT zones?

40 hero challenges and they give 10 hero points each for a total of 400, which is how many points you need to fully unlock an elite spec.

If you have world completion already, you’re halfway through the elite spec. Considering elite specs include other stuff to unlock however, you’ll likely only need 10 or so hero challenge within HoT to fully unlock all skills and traits.

Well they did say 200 to unlock all skills and traits. The characters i wanted the ES on i got to 170 anyway. So 3 HP challenges to go in HoT.

No, it was not said 200 to unlock all skills and traits. it’s 400 to unlock everything, yes, but we do not know that the last 2 skins are 200 points, Anet has not, and won’t say.

Vague Memory.2817:

Morfedel.4165:

Hexalot.8194:

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

Menadena.7482:

Yargesh.4965:

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

I am trying to recall a single MMORPG where an expansion handed out everything you expected to get with it up front, rather than making you earn it. I can’t think of a single one, and this sense of entitlement just truly baffles me.

Entitlement?

We were told what to expect. People planned for that and did the work asked of them. Whether you liked it or not we knew the upper boundary.

Then they changed it. Not us.

What? They did not change anything since they have not until now given a number.

They stated world completion was the max. Until the datamine of 170 most people were assuming 100 HPs would be a good number to guess at. When we saw the 170 (which again many did not believe) and the progression for a typical profession I realized I could not get everything right away but about 120 would give me a good starting build.

Can you source that? Because i don’t think they said that, I think assumptions were made. That being the case, if they DID change that, because I won’t swear they didn’t, I have the following thoughts on that:

1. It IS uncool to change the info this late in the game. So if they said different before now, then yeah, I agree it’s uncool.

2. However, sometimes changes have to be made, for whatever reason: health of the game, technical issues, other stuff. It’s highly unlikely they are changing things just to make things a pain in the rear for us.

Wanna know something? I kinda thought we would have our elites unlocked if we had done all the hps in the core world, and I would have preferred it that way, so I could use my elites fully at the very beginning of HoT. That being the case, though, I don’t consider this a bad thing.

My problem is the massive rage we are seeing here. The sheer levels of it is ridiculous. If someone said “I’m not happy with this,” I could understand, but people are just burn-the-building-down angry, and it’s flat out unreasonable.

I do not recall the URL offhand but anet specifically said we could run the new content with elites if we had world completion.

Yes that’s correct. But… that was also around the time they stated you needed an additional 65 HPs to unlock the new core spec system. So basically anybody with World Completion were home free when they eventually release the Elite specs. But when they changed it so that just leveling to 80 would give you enough Hero Points to unlock core traits & utilities with no need for the additional 65 points, the whole “World Completion will unlock everything including elite specs” statement went out the window.

Unlock the elite spec, not entirely master it. I can unlock the elite spec and have it half mastered soon as I log in with my main. Unlocking it isn’t the same as getting everything in it.

I’ll pay 1 gold to the first person who can actually find a quote FROM ARENA NET that says that day 1 the elite spec could be entirely mastered.

1 gold doesn’t sound very confident. How about upping that to 1000g.

I have never had 1000 gold in the entire time I’ve been playing the game which is been since beta. I’m always spending it. I’m fairly confident I am right, but not 100%. So in the unlikely case that I was wrong, I would not be able to pay it. Never bet more than you can pay.

At my best I’ve had 200 gold. I have always been spending it on forging a variety of exotic weapons such as all the mists skin weapons. You’re right, one gold is pretty darn low, it was more a statement than it was actually serious, I could afford that with my eyes closed however. Like saying I would eat my hat.

That being the case, I would be happy to make a bet. Considering the fact that people have been challenged several times already to produce evidence and no one has done so yet, I feel fairly safe. I still don’t bet more than I can afford it though, only a fool does that. There’s always the chance that you’re wrong.

My god this thread shows the dark side of the playerbase, a creation made by Anets casual philosphy over the years. People are really putting the term grind to use. Why not just enjoy the game, theres no new levels, no new gear tier. I do agree that masteries have lots of exp required, but remains to be tested further.

For everyone complaining, you must have never played through an expansion before. In Word of Warcraft, for example, an expansion entails exploring new content in order to gain levels to achieve level cap, followed by grinding quests, dungeons, etc. to reach a high enough item level to enter heroic dungeons, raids, etc. Additionally, when new classes were introduced, they did not start at the max level cap of the previous version of the game.

In any event, those who have a character with 100% map completion will likely have enough hero points to unlock the majority of traits and utilities, if not all of them. For those making a revenant, it should be obvious that as a new character it needs to be played through from the beginning. The elite specialization, like masteries, is part of the horizontal progression of your character and requires playing the game to achieve.

Going back to WOW, all players have to explore the new content before resuming their preferred game mode of PvE or PvP. Be thankful that GW2 allows you the ability to gain hero points through WvW, tomes of knowledge in sPvP.

All I care is that Elite spec is not insta 100% on day 1, and if that’s what we are getting; good riddance. That will only hurt the game anyway.

DoctorDing.5890:

It’s the essential truth of all MMOs.
You work your way through the content to earn gear upgrades that would have been really handy during that content.

Yea, latest MMO I played before GW2 was LoTRO and for every expansion they increased the level cap and for every or every two levels you earned a skill or an upgrade to a skill. I was forced to do the Quest chains of booring quests that was about going a doing the dishes for people and picking up garbage that someone had thrown. If I didn’t do that and just went ahead I would have iether have to hard enemies to fight or no quests to do becouse I had to finnish the previous quests to unlock them. By the time I was at the end of the game I was almost max level and had earned my last skill.

In GW2 I have quite alot of choises of what I want to do and how I am going to do it, yes ofc I have to find hero points or do WvW to buy them. Also the game does not end when you have come to the “finnish line” no, a few weeks more and then there will be more content and the living story continues with more Raid wings and more story and maby even more maps to play your Elite specialication. Now if you hate it so much then wait and play when LS has worked it’s way a little longer and you have even more Specializations to work for. The best thing with GW2 compaired with other MMO’s is that the new content does not make the old content absolete… Not yet atleast.

And about the Anetdrones comments, it is so stupid. Accept that you are just on another side of the coin than us. We think it is a good thing and we beleave that it is not as bad as you beleave it to be. None of us has facts on exactly how it is so you beleave it is going to be BAD and we beleave it is going to be OK. Let’s complain if we have to when we have the facts straight.

Vihar.5780:

Lucifers Heaven.2167:

Vihar.5780:

40 heart quests is what we are basically talking about, right? By my reckoning, that adds up to about 15 hours at a VERY casual pace.

They’re not even heart quests, they’re Hero Points. The old Skill Points. Some are “beat this one enemy in a fight”, others are just “reach and interact with this thing”.

Wow.

This makes all the crying even more pathetic.

No, it does not. If you are assuming it’s 40 places easily reached, and all you do is commune, then you are at best exactly what you are saying the crying is. Since they are worth 10x the hero points, why should they be so easy and simple. In fact, if it was this ‘easy’ then it would be the same as just giving us the elite specs for almost no work at all right? (No, most are NOT saying to be handed everything… I’d like to take this imaginary silver spoon and do something with it to the people that keep spouting this off, but that would be violence, and we should be planting violets >.>)

Masteries are needed to get around the maps, this is a fact. It is most likely the case that at least some of the hero challenges will need masteries. Hopefully not require them to be maxed, that should only be optional to fully max the masteries, like to make it easier to get around. But from what Anet has said, parts of the maps will be gated off behind masteries, which again, means hero challenges are likely to be as well.

Jhoul.6923:

All I care is that Elite spec is not insta 100% on day 1, and if that’s what we are getting; good riddance. That will only hurt the game anyway.

The people that want to rush it, will still do everything they can to rush it. There are people that are already planning out how to go about this the fastest, and we don’t even have HoT yet… so you can be 100% sure some will be doing precisely that when HoT is released. This will hurt the game.

Blaeys.3102:

My guess is that the time it takes people to get these hero points will be far less than the time they spend complaining about it on these forums.

considering hero challenges will most likely be locked behind masteries, I’m willing to bet it is not as simple as walking up to a hero challenge in queensdale and pressing ‘F’.
BTW, why are you still following me in game?

Alukah.2063:

Random.4691:

Alukah.2063:

Chaba.5410:

ColinJohanson.2394:

PlatinumMember.5274:

Unless I am mistaken just to unlock half of the training line, we need 212 hero points?

It’s 400 points total to unlock everything in an elite spec training line – I just can’t remember off hand how many points folks have currently if they have done all the existing ones, but it’s right around 200. The rest you’ll need to earn in jungle to unlock the deeper skills/traits/etc. in the training line.

You only need 60 hero points to begin using your elite spec, the points you spend after that continue to unlock more skills, traits, skins, etc.

Again, hero challenges are worth 10 points each in the jungle. So no you don’t need to go do 200-400 jungle challenges.

A Portrait of the Player as a WvW Regular

- Two accounts (actually I have three but only purchased HoT for these two).
- Twelve level 80s
- Two above 60 hero points
- Only one with 100% map completion
- 75% of toons under 20% map completion
- 5904 combined total gaming hours
- No Legendary
- No full sets of ascended gear
- Purchaser of gems with real cash
- 1892 combined WXP rank (677 and 1215 respectively)

How can you help me? Can I hire you to get the hero points for my toons?

Anet should totally cater to you, because your case is the same as 90% of the playerbase.

His case is the same as a lot more players then you think. GJ on the ignorance though, mega servers give you the illusion of PvE being more populated. You would be surprised how many WvW players there actually are.

Yeah because there’s a direct relation between WvW population and people with 12 characters.

“His case is the same as a lot more players then you think.”

Citation needed.

I don’t see why there would need to be a direct relation. To show what?

I posted my stats to display a portrait, that is all. I spent most of my game time since launch playing WvW and my account stats show for it.

Since raising the level cap in GW2 wouldn’t make any sense like in other MMOs xpacs, Anet have decided to add new specs that we will be able to unlock ( level up) with HP.

Just consider HP as the new XP and elite spec the new level cap.

Dseto.7689:

If you gathered 170HP, the gap to 200-214 isn’t that wide and I managed it in about an hour and a half.

How did you get them so fast? Which maps did you use (i.e. are there any maps that are easiest to get to and have more challenges than others)? I have toons with very low map completion and it takes longer than an hour and a half to run the maps.

Sirendor.1394:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I have to say I don’t understand the forums.

Previously: Everything is too easy! We have nothing to do! Give us something, anything to do!

Now: OMG! You want us to do stuff??? This is uncalled for! Way too much to do!

Poor Devs.

Well.. the devs misunderstood.

-> Players: “Too easy”

• Easy = not hard
• Players: “Hard = challenging!”
• Devs “Hard = timeconsuming!”
• But: timeconsuming =/= hard!
• Timeconsuming = grindy
  -> Players: “Too much grind”

Love this post. This explains why I love the Mad King’s Clock Tower. The CT rewards player skill instead of lame kitten grinding / mat farming.

Nausicca.6038:

Since raising the level cap in GW2 wouldn’t make any sense like in other MMOs xpacs, Anet have decided to add new specs that we will be able to unlock ( level up) with HP.

Just consider HP as the new XP and elite spec the new level cap.

Interesting way to look at it Nausicca! There is indeed a striking resemblance between this and traditional level cap increases. Do you evaluate it possitively because of this or is this rather a criticism for pushing a “hidden level cap” on the players?

There is more then enough content (if they get their crap together and release it .. cough raids cough) to keep everyone busy without time gating the Elites. We have Raids, Guild Halls, New Maps (for all modes), Fractals, Legendaries, Adventures, Events, Masteries, and I’m sure I’ve missed a few. I don’t see how time gating the Elites is productive, how does it affect anyone if you do it as a Necro or a Reaper for example. If they wanted to do something for elites they should have done a quest line of some sort.

The bottom line is, it hurts nothing to have elites playable, the rest of the content is still the same regardless of which class/spec you are using. There is simply no need and all this has done is divide the community and ticked off a lot of players. This is suppose to be an exciting time for GW2 and instead they have managed to turn it into a witch hunt.

JSmooth.7654:

Sirendor.1394:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I have to say I don’t understand the forums.

Previously: Everything is too easy! We have nothing to do! Give us something, anything to do!

Now: OMG! You want us to do stuff??? This is uncalled for! Way too much to do!

Poor Devs.

Well.. the devs misunderstood.

-> Players: “Too easy”

• Easy = not hard
• Players: “Hard = challenging!”
• Devs “Hard = timeconsuming!”
• But: timeconsuming =/= hard!
• Timeconsuming = grindy
  -> Players: “Too much grind”

Love this post. This explains why I love the Mad King’s Clock Tower. The CT rewards player skill instead of lame kitten grinding / mat farming.

/bow

Clock tower is an example of awesome content for me. :p It’s so much fun. I also enjoyed Queen’s Gauntlet a lot.

Random.4691:

There is more then enough content (if they get their crap together and release it .. cough raids cough) to keep everyone busy without time gating the Elites. We have Raids, Guild Halls, New Maps (for all modes), Fractals, Legendaries, Adventures, Events, Masteries, and I’m sure I’ve missed a few. I don’t see how time gating the Elites is productive, how does it affect anyone if you do it as a Necro or a Reaper for example. If they wanted to do something for elites they should have done a quest line of some sort.

The bottom line is, it hurts nothing to have elites playable, the rest of the content is still the same regardless of which class/spec you are using. There is simply no need and all this has done is divide the community and ticked off a lot of players. This is suppose to be an exciting time for GW2 and instead they have managed to turn it into a witch hunt.

Your character is alive. In GW2, leveling up and completing hero challenges unlocked progression for your character. For elite specialization, it should be self-evident that gaining access to them requires your character to complete challenges to achieve that. Your character will become elite through character growth, i.e. playing the game. How elite specializations are unlocked should be looked at as exciting to complete challenges to unlock the elite inside your character, not an inconvenience.

Mikeskies.1536:

For everyone complaining, you must have never played through an expansion before. In Word of Warcraft, for example, an expansion entails exploring new content in order to gain levels to achieve level cap, followed by grinding quests, dungeons, etc. to reach a high enough item level to enter heroic dungeons, raids, etc. Additionally, when new classes were introduced, they did not start at the max level cap of the previous version of the game.

In any event, those who have a character with 100% map completion will likely have enough hero points to unlock the majority of traits and utilities, if not all of them. For those making a revenant, it should be obvious that as a new character it needs to be played through from the beginning. The elite specialization, like masteries, is part of the horizontal progression of your character and requires playing the game to achieve.

Going back to WOW, all players have to explore the new content before resuming their preferred game mode of PvE or PvP. Be thankful that GW2 allows you the ability to gain hero points through WvW, tomes of knowledge in sPvP.

There’s a good reason why I never bothered with WoW.

Chaba.5410:

Dseto.7689:

If you gathered 170HP, the gap to 200-214 isn’t that wide and I managed it in about an hour and a half.

How did you get them so fast? Which maps did you use (i.e. are there any maps that are easiest to get to and have more challenges than others)? I have toons with very low map completion and it takes longer than an hour and a half to run the maps.

Well like I said, I already had 170HP from before when I thought that was all I needed. I only went for what’s available in PvE, which got me 201 total, so 170 to 201 is just a 31 point difference and that’s a breeze really. Although before expansion was announced, Inalways made it a point to get as many WPs as I can incase of events similar to Scarlet’s invasion and to do Guild missions, so I can just zip through most of it to get to HPs. There is a plus from the recent reveal though, a LOT of players seem to be scrambling for HPs right now so a lot of the challenges are easier thanks to the extra strength in numbers