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Posted by: EdgarMTanaka.7291

EdgarMTanaka.7291

I am also a Guild Leader… My problem is not that it is too hard to get to where we where before the update… In my Guild the problem is to get most of the members to understand why and how to donate. At the moment I have needed to make a shoutout every day since we got a guild hall to make all members understand why we need to work together with our guild. Some players doesn’t even know how to go to our Guild Hall O_o I mean four players and me in my guild managed by our selfes to build up to Workshop as soon as we could with aetherium. We are soon 100 members in my guild and I think we are 7 members who have made donations atleast once in our guild. …

I think that a Donations tab in the Guild Menu and a quick and easy tutorial would help somewhat.

I dunno, maby most people just want to play and don’t bother helping their Guild… Or they rather represent a larger guild and helps that instead. I dunno.

Member of Alpha Swedish Gaming Community – http://www.alphas.se/
Guild Leader of Alpha Sgc [ASGC]

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Posted by: amiia.8139

amiia.8139

What? Beg in GUILD? I asked my frineds in guild (5 active atm) to throw some coins for guild hall expedition and got it in like 5 min – all 100g required. ;P

Guild is not where You are for profit. Guild is place where You are with comrades thru all dangers ’till death.

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Posted by: shaquinna.2869

shaquinna.2869

If you’re unaware, those potions are for the PVP tracks regardless of rank being maxed. Your guildie is giving up fairly serious loot turning those in.

I suppose I am unaware. I do not play much (read ‘any’) PvP myself.

All the more reason, in my opnion, those potions should not be included…

Thank you for the info! I probably need to change the ‘thanks’ to a ‘very very very big thanks’ now. Confirms that we’re very lucky to have such dedicated members.

Evanny
[EU] Piken Square
Representing: ‘The Only One’ [One]

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

It would be a lot easier to donate if I didn’t have to know ahead of time what was needed. Put it in my inventory. Then jump over to the guild hall, speak to the NPC and add the donation.

What would be better. Have the donation panel on the guild UI at the top of the screen. I can be at the bank in LA. Open the donation panel. Pull stuff out of my material inventory and put it in the donation panel.

Or if that’s too immersion breaking (or whatever). When I go to the guild hall, opening the donation panel also opens up my bank and it’s material inventory.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

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Posted by: NeroBoron.7285

NeroBoron.7285

Totally agree, another problem is that it doesn’t scale with the guild roster size/ count of member. We are a 8 men guild. And have to pay the same amount like 50 ppl guild or a 200 ppl guild.

This could be easily fixed by binding it to the guild roster size.
Like less 25people pay 10 amount of material x while a guild with a roster of 50 pay 20. And so on.
To prevent the following case “upgrade the whole guild with a low roster size and then invite all people” you could increase the upgrade cost of the guild roster size with the guild level.

Also that we got ripped from serval utilities that we had before is not okay. We have to pay now for claiming wvw objectives? Wtf is this? And not only once, for every type camp/tower/keep. Also now we need guild level 37 or 39 to use the +5 supply capacity buff, which is really essentially to a small scale wvw guild.

Please fix this!

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Posted by: FrizzFreston.5290

FrizzFreston.5290

Well, yah a small guild of 14 people are more likely to be actively engaged and you can let them all decorate. If you’re in a big guild of 200 plus, you’ll likely not know most and they can’t all be allowed to decorate as they want.

Our guild does have 200+ inactives nonreps and such.
I don’t think we would do it differently if they were all active.

There’s no harm in letting everyone decorate in our opinion. Stuff might get lost in the guild hall maybe.

Either way. A guild of 200 active people doesn’t have material problems. Unless you are really bad at involving people in your guild. It was just a suggestion in order to get your members involved.

“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik

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Posted by: shaquinna.2869

shaquinna.2869

It would be a lot easier to donate if I didn’t have to know ahead of time what was needed. Put it in my inventory. Then jump over to the guild hall, speak to the NPC and add the donation.

What would be better. Have the donation panel on the guild UI at the top of the screen. I can be at the bank in LA. Open the donation panel. Pull stuff out of my material inventory and put it in the donation panel.

Or if that’s too immersion breaking (or whatever). When I go to the guild hall, opening the donation panel also opens up my bank and it’s material inventory.

I agree

I find it annoying that I have to run back and forth to see what we need and what I have.

Your second suggestion I find to be a good one. It would work like it works with the Mystic forge and exploring crafting recepies. You’ll only see the items you have in your inventory and on the bank that you can actually use. And therefor only those items you’re actually able to donate. I’d like that.. I’d like that a lot.

Evanny
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Representing: ‘The Only One’ [One]

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Posted by: Absconditus.6804

Absconditus.6804

Agreed wholly. I do not see why they had to abolish the Influence system, just to add to the Guild systems overall. It could have perfectly co-existed nicely with the new changes. If anything, the Influence trader could be a thing that lets you purchase materials that gets deposited directly to the upgrades storage (with its own Permission Flag), while still allowing individual players who wish to deposit items manually, to do so as well. Influence was a great system that allowed anyone in a Guild to feel like they contribute, by simply playing. Even just logging in. Favor is not representative of how that part of the Influence system was great. Even though I like the idea of Favor.

On a slightly different note; I am also not a fan of the * Disciplines Research Commemorative Statues—not even one bit. It can become a thing of frustration to new Guilds created post-Heart of Thorns, to see that there are pieces of decoration (a huge part of a Guild Hall) that can’t be earned. Or for that matter, smaller Guilds who may not have been aware of this being a thing and not having reached max tier prior to everything they had done in the past getting abolished by the almighty ArenaNet developers. While I have a Guild from before these changes, I still really dislike the idea of items that can’t be earned by new players and Guilds in any part of the game. You basically voided all my 3 years of effort, Gold (and real money in some cases from Gem to Gold conversion) with your changes. You don’t need to give me a few statues for it. Take them out, or make them earnable, renaming the Commemorative part. We don’t need such nonsense in Guild Wars 2, do we?

Vella Absconditus | Human Mesmer
Seafarer’s Rest

(edited by Absconditus.6804)

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Posted by: Baamoink.4281

Baamoink.4281

I’ve had the opposite experience with my community, we’re 50 players in total, but as the Guild Leader, I haven’t had to beg for donations. On the contrary I’ve enforced players only donate what they wish, and have ruled out people pressuring others into donating anything they consider unreasonable.

Materials have come in plenty, and of free will. Our main bottleneck is Aetherium

No single shoe size fits all however. I hope some of the similar sized guilds find a way to overcome the materials challenge for upgrades with their communities!

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Posted by: DoctorDing.5890

DoctorDing.5890

Is this new guild system the first time GW2 has had a system where individual guild members are being asked/expected to donate some of their personal “wealth” to the guild?

I only ask because I’ve seen the downside of this in another game, where guildies were arguing about each others’ donation levels and also there was a problem where folks would be kicked from a guild (or just leave) and “lose all their stuff” and the advantages that it brought. I saw a lot of “boo hoo it’s not fair”. It’s a problem that grows with the size of the donations.

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Posted by: Spirited Was Eceni.3869

Spirited Was Eceni.3869

I agree with the OP, this week for the first time in months we didn’t even bother doing the guild missions. Some guildies are donating but we’ve noticed a huge increase in non repping too. Guildies are hiding as the guilt trip caused by not donating is taking effect.

I spent several months running solo before forming our guild nearly a year ago and now I’m seriously considering disbanding and going solo again. I’m losing any interest in spending time and vast resources to get back to where we were before.

“Judge a person’s character by how they behave when given anonymity.”

Welcome to the Internet, exposing characters since the early 80’s.

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Posted by: Ohoni.6057

Ohoni.6057

There’s nothing fun about constantly asking guild members for donations. What’s even less fun is being on the receiving end of all those solicitations for contributions. It’s remarkable that a company with a dedicated economist on staff hasn’t found a more equitable economic system for guilds. The short-sighted design of guild upgrading has disrupted the economy to such an extent that ArenaNet has issued hints at resource farms in an attempt to give guilds a chance to recoup their lost capabilities without bleeding coin or members.

Always keep in mind, GW2 is designed so that players serve the economy, not so that the economy serves the players. It’s designed so that players will sink the mats and gold that need sinking to keep the economy stable, rather than to provide players with the things that players actually want. It’s an independent economic simulator, not a player support tool like most ingame economies strive to be.

“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”

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Posted by: Psientist.6437

Psientist.6437

There is a pronounced progression treadmill flavor to unlocking guild buffs. Worse it seems to have been built from 2 Fibanacci curves with the workload to unlock going uphill on one and the rewards for unlocking going downhill on the other. The limit of one active buff strikes me as petty.

The scribing station offers the most convenient access to a player’s personal storage. There is no need to zone back and forth from the GH and a city.

Guild leaders need a way to communicate what materials are needed for the next planned upgrade. The message of the day is not enough, our guild’s mod is already full of other necessary information. If I may make a suggestion:
A check box or some other way for GLs to select an upgrade at the relevant NPC that when selected puts an aura/border/indicator around the material in the Treasurer tab. That buff would disappear when the material load for the chosen upgrade is met.

“No! You can’t eat the ones that talk!
They’re special! They got aspirations.”
Finn the human

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

The system depends on enthusiastic guildies to donate. Which is all well and good as who isn’t an enthusiastic guildie. However, what if you’re a member of 5 different active guilds, all of whom are trying to build their guild hall? All of whom that want your donations. This could lead to problems if players start feeling pressured by their multiple guilds all asking for donations. No matter how politely it’s phrased, it could start to feel like being surrounded by a bunch of people all asking for you to please donate to their cause.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

(edited by Just a flesh wound.3589)

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Posted by: Tigaseye.2047

Tigaseye.2047

Yeah, it’s awful.

I have a bank guild that is just totally stagnating and can’t progress at all and then I’m a member of another guild, which is now constantly asking people for donations (or was).

That can’t be good for the leadership to have to do and it’s certainly not good for the members.

Imagine the first impression, if you have just joined the game.

You would think that all guilds ever do is beg their members for gold/donations.

It’s not good.

In my guild, as a leader, I record all the donations that are coming into either the treasury or guild bank. The list is growing longer and longer but at the same time, recording it is important because you will know among all your members, who are the one who cares and the one who don’t.

This is universal truth to all guilds, there are people who cares and people who don’t. Though it is noble for leaders to want to take care of everyone, but it is also very important to know the members who care and the members who don’t.

…and this reaction, Anet, is just one reason why all this was a TERRIBLE idea.

This sounds like a lack of real members or actual leadership ability.

Leadership ability is not (or should not be) about begging for stuff.

People should be able to make/join a guild and then contribute to its growth, automatically, by just playing normally.

This is the polar opposite of that kind of system and as such, it is a major step backwards.

“Turns out when people play the game, they don’t admire your feet at all.” sephiroth

(edited by Tigaseye.2047)

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Posted by: FrozenStarRo.7240

FrozenStarRo.7240

Yeah the guild requirements are atrocious. I’ve only checked Ectos, and according to wiki http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glob_of_Ectoplasm a fully upgraded guild uses up 2735 ectos. And we need hordes of other stuff too. Awesome mat and gold sink if there ever was one.

I’m not a guild leader, just one of the officers, but stuck in that place where I both want to help build up the guild I’m a part of yet hate the process they developed just as much because it bites into resources I’ve long worked to acquire or need to spend copious amounts of also hard-earned gold to progress it any further. Already burned through stacks of mats and know we’re not nearly halfway done with it. Also getting a bit jaded having to remind the other members everyone needs to contribute a little something. Took some serious convincing to get about 2 others out of dozens to do some PVP just because of the 6 potions a day limit and everyone would like arena unlocked.

I get where the OP is coming from. It feels more like a system designed to drive a wedge between guild members, because there’s always some who want things done right away, some that don’t want to contribute because their gaming was fine before halls got introduced, some that feel they put in more than the others, making many displeased with some aspect of the system. In the old one we just worked together as a unit better and everyone was happy.

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

Also, i was wondering… I see some people saying guild hall progression should be based on a guilds size, as in how many members it has. So that smaller guilds need less materials to build upgrades.

Wouldn’t that mean that guilds would be able to ‘cheat’ easily? Like telling everyone to leave (perhaps to a temporary alt guild), leaving about 10-20 players. Capture the hall, build the upgrades letting people donate stuff trough guild banks and mail. Inviting someone who has account bound stuff to donate to the guild temporary ..

And when the progression is far enough just invite everyone back bringing the total member count back to, for example, 400?

Yes, they theoretically could, but they would still be gated by favour and aetherium generation (which, by the way, was introduced with the specific goal to slow down guild advancement rate). No guild will willingly downgrade their member count for months.

So, no cheating really. Which is besides the point. Anet doesn’t care about “no cheating” or the prices being reasonable – they just want it to be a huge gold and materials sink. And they seem to think it should be fun for players… for some reason.

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

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Posted by: EdgarMTanaka.7291

EdgarMTanaka.7291

Also, i was wondering… I see some people saying guild hall progression should be based on a guilds size, as in how many members it has. So that smaller guilds need less materials to build upgrades.

Wouldn’t that mean that guilds would be able to ‘cheat’ easily? Like telling everyone to leave (perhaps to a temporary alt guild), leaving about 10-20 players. Capture the hall, build the upgrades letting people donate stuff trough guild banks and mail. Inviting someone who has account bound stuff to donate to the guild temporary ..

And when the progression is far enough just invite everyone back bringing the total member count back to, for example, 400?

Yes, they theoretically could, but they would still be gated by favour and aetherium generation (which, by the way, was introduced with the specific goal to slow down guild advancement rate). No guild will willingly downgrade their member count for months.

So, no cheating really. Which is besides the point. Anet doesn’t care about “no cheating” or the prices being reasonable – they just want it to be a huge gold and materials sink. And they seem to think it should be fun for players… for some reason.

Hmm… Now when you mention this… I think I remember someone at Anet say that Aetherium would be the thing that would slow down Bigger guilds so smaller Guilds would be able to keep up? Something like that… Well Aetherium is no problem since it will be full long before a small Guild has even got enough mats for one thing to build.

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Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

So, I might be a bit of an oddball here, in that I don’t mind farming my tail off to build a hall. Did it in GW1, farmed all of the coin on my own with the exception of 2 npcs that my guildies pool funds and bought; long story. Anyway, so I don’t mind (too much) doing the same here. The problem I’m running into is not being able to grow my guild, at all. People don’t want to join little guilds anymore because “just playing” can’t produce any benefits anymore, and people don’t want to bother with the growing pains. They want to join a guild that’s already well underway, where they can get the rewards without a lot of effort. It’s insanely frustrating. I think I actually miss influence. The kitten favor gating sucks.

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

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Posted by: rchu.8945

rchu.8945

Can you at the very least explain why you want your fully unlocked guild hall yesterday?

Because I don’t get all these newfangled entitled instant gratification lines of thinking.

I don’t see the OP as wanting a fully unlocked guild hall immediately or wanting instant gratification. What I see is them saying the requirements for some upgrades are excessive.

The fact that he admitted he’s been asking members for donation shows he wants “sooner” rather than “later”. How soon? I dunno. But it’s obvious he wants to happen quicker than the norm. Maybe he can do less “asking” start recruiting more members.

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

So, I might be a bit of an oddball here, in that I don’t mind farming my tail off to build a hall. Did it in GW1, farmed all of the coin on my own with the exception of 2 npcs that my guildies pool funds and bought; long story. Anyway, so I don’t mind (too much) doing the same here. The problem I’m running into is not being able to grow my guild, at all. People don’t want to join little guilds anymore because “just playing” can’t produce any benefits anymore, and people don’t want to bother with the growing pains. They want to join a guild that’s already well underway, where they can get the rewards without a lot of effort. It’s insanely frustrating. I think I actually miss influence. The kitten favor gating sucks.

I was thinking about that when they announced these changes. Why should I, as an hypothetical player looking for a guild, want to join a small or new guild when I could join a big guild? Not only will everything be unlocked faster but the cost to me is less if I have 200 plus guildies also contributing. In addition, once guild halls are fairly well along, why should I join a new guild with a bare, no convenience hall when I can join a guild with a lot of nice things?

The way it’s set up is punishingly hard on new, starting up guilds. It strongly favors older, large guilds. People who want to start a guild and attract new guildies are going to have an uphill struggle to get and keep new people if they have no finished hall, no large roster and have to ask for donations.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

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Posted by: Kulvar.1239

Kulvar.1239

@OP:
Maybe they’re not real guild mates if they do not want to help developing the guild…
There are people happily giving mats in 5 members guilds !
You have 50 members, but can’t find enough people to help?

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Posted by: Solomon Darkfury.3729

Solomon Darkfury.3729

See I don’t think it’s the size of the guild that matters at all… it’s the mentality that you as a guild leader help foster and cultivate. I’m in 140 person guild as my main guild. Realistically day in and day out we will have 20-30 hardcore reppers. That said, we were one of the first in the world with our arena. We are tight knit with a strong bond and a willingness to put the guild before our own selfish needs. Recruit the right people and rum the guild the right way and you won’t have an issue

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Posted by: FrizzFreston.5290

FrizzFreston.5290

Also, i was wondering… I see some people saying guild hall progression should be based on a guilds size, as in how many members it has. So that smaller guilds need less materials to build upgrades.

Wouldn’t that mean that guilds would be able to ‘cheat’ easily? Like telling everyone to leave (perhaps to a temporary alt guild), leaving about 10-20 players. Capture the hall, build the upgrades letting people donate stuff trough guild banks and mail. Inviting someone who has account bound stuff to donate to the guild temporary ..

And when the progression is far enough just invite everyone back bringing the total member count back to, for example, 400?

Yes, they theoretically could, but they would still be gated by favour and aetherium generation (which, by the way, was introduced with the specific goal to slow down guild advancement rate). No guild will willingly downgrade their member count for months.

So, no cheating really. Which is besides the point. Anet doesn’t care about “no cheating” or the prices being reasonable – they just want it to be a huge gold and materials sink. And they seem to think it should be fun for players… for some reason.

Yeah. No one would ever try to beat the system by artificially making their guild smaller ever. >_> /sarcasm

I agree that the system isn’t very fun atm. There’s not enough low hanging fruits after claiming.
But making it dependable on guild size and expecting that no one will exploit it is just ignorant and doesn’t make a good design at all. I would rather see just cheaper prices overall. At least for the beginning upgrades. People already spend 100gold for the GH.

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Posted by: Ins.7139

Ins.7139

We are a WvW guild with 90 man roster and yet our guild is at around level 18, the treasury is full and the bank is overflowing with materials needed for the next upgrades.

At first I had to beg and spam what was needed but I think that was mainly down to people not understanding how to build stuff or what to upgrade.. I myself didn’t have a clue for a few days till I spent a few hours running around inspecting all buildings and the upgrades associated with it. Luckily I had members / officers in guild that were more clued up and knew what was going on so they took the lead with it.

Donations dried up for abit so we just said WvW raids cancelled until xxx in bank and funnily enough it was filled straight away. As they moved reset night we all got drunk and farmed SW on a Friday night for shovels, think we got the 350 needed within 3 hours with about 40 of us. We’ve chucked anywhere from 8k-10k gold into it so far including scribing and everything.

Some of my guys made a spreadsheet and listed everything, we now know exactly what stuff we are upgrading, in what order for the next 50 days and it has materials next to each so we can just farm what we need for the next few upgrades.

I do feel sorry for the smaller guilds or guilds with a large part time rep policy.

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Posted by: Brown Fang Thump.9482

Brown Fang Thump.9482

It may not bother you as a guild member (since you can just rep in a larger guild), but it’s pretty obvious to me why a guild leader would be stressed about it.

Well said Guhracie. This really is the point I’m getting at here. As a member, when you choose to represent the largest guild you belong to that means your contributions to other guilds suffer. The guild leaders of those smaller guilds see this as their representation numbers deplete and their abilities to do things dwindle. This is only complicated further by the fact that small guilds will take longer to regain the buffs and boons they’ve lost than large guilds, even if all members represent all the time and donate regularly.

The imbalance here creates an economy of representing members that favors large guilds at the expense of small guilds.

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Posted by: Brown Fang Thump.9482

Brown Fang Thump.9482

A check box or some other way for GLs to select an upgrade at the relevant NPC that when selected puts an aura/border/indicator around the material in the Treasurer tab. That buff would disappear when the material load for the chosen upgrade is met.

Now that’s a brilliant suggestion there Psientist. What an elegant design.

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Posted by: Blaeys.3102

Blaeys.3102

As the leader of a very large active guild, I love the new system. Yes, I have had to remind players we need certain mats a few times, but I wouldn’t call it begging.

Most of the time, I log on to find that members are actually supporting the guild without any reminders.

What I find works best is simply letting players know what youre building next (or, even better, getting their feedback on direction) – if they are truly interested in supporting your guild, you’ll find they will take the initiative themselves. Last night during a guild event, I mentioned we needed mugs and empty kegs. A few minutes later, we had almost all we needed.

The system rewards guilds that work together – and I love that.

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Posted by: Brown Fang Thump.9482

Brown Fang Thump.9482

People should be able to make/join a guild and then contribute to its growth, automatically, by just playing normally.

This is the polar opposite of that kind of system and as such, it is a major step backwards.

Well said Tigaseye.

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

I think the OP makes some good points.

I do as well. Taking earned stuff away from players is never a good idea in games.

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Posted by: Celtic Lady.3729

Celtic Lady.3729

It isn’t surprising if members of a guild with no power and no say in anything from decorations to basic guild decision-making don’t want to donate a lot of money and items to the guild hall.

Nor should they be expected to.

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Posted by: PopeUrban.2578

PopeUrban.2578

There are plenty of incentives for them to donate. Literally every single guild service is acquired by donating resources to finish upgrades.

If you have to beg guild members to work toward the benefit of the group… why do you tolerate such antisocial and selfish guild members in the first place? Why isn’t your hall a group effort that everyone is excited about?

This isn’t a problem with the system. It’s a problem with your guild. The system creates group content and economic objectives. If your guild members don’t care about the welfare of the groups, that isn’t a problem with the system. That’s a problem with your guild.

The old system was horrible. It did nothing to reward or incentivize group efforts. It handed out advancement just for logging in. It made guilds nothing more than a tag that gave you stuff with no associated groupwide cost or effort. The new system’s dynamics are simple: you get out of your guild what you’re willing to put in.

The old system was passive and boring. The new system is active and creates guild objectives. It’s sad some guilds are figuring out they don’t care as much about their group as they thought they did.

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Posted by: Brown Fang Thump.9482

Brown Fang Thump.9482

The fact that he admitted he’s been asking members for donation shows he wants “sooner” rather than “later”. How soon? I dunno. But it’s obvious he wants to happen quicker than the norm. Maybe he can do less “asking” start recruiting more members.

It wasn’t ever my goal to lead a large guild. In fact, at 40-50 members (most logging in once a week, if that), we’re already about 30 members larger than I’d wanted to be. Adding more ambivalent members is not a goal I’m motivated by, though I do continue to recruit in the hope of gaining 1-5 people who are active, positive additions to the fold.

That said, I am in a hurry to recoup lost guild capability, not to have a maximum level guild hall. All I really want is to be able to provide the 3-5 members I rely on most with the same services I offered them in September. That’s not a big ask. Sharing those benefits with the remaining transient members is a welcome opportunity, once we get there; but, we have to get there first. On the path to accomplishing this I have turned down more massive donations from my most active members out of respect for their time and loyalty.

As a guild member you may think it’s great for a single player to donate 200G toward a guild effort; but, as a leader, I refuse to put that kind of burden on a single player when there are 30 other folks lurking about.

The rush to get back what we’ve lost as a guild isn’t something I’m thrilled about; but, as a leader I feel it’s important not to refuse service to my guild members, regardless of how casually they may be involved in the guild or the game.

Could I deplete the materials and gold I have, and that of my most loyal guild members, in order to get the guild hall upgraded quicker? Yes. Would that be a fun endeavor that everyone involved would have no regrets about doing? I don’t think so. If members were thrilled about donating coin and materials to the guild they would have been doing that pre-HoT, just for the fun of it. Our bank’s never been empty; but, it’s not full of tier 6 mats and account bound items either.

The key here is that the buffs we provided before HoT empowered more fun in the game by letting players feel more powerful and better rewarded while doing what they were going to do anyway. Now, once players have donated anything they’ve hoarded, they have to do specific things in the game, whether they enjoy them or not, in order to help benefit an institution (the guild) before it ever gets around to reciprocating that generosity. That sounds like a job, not an amusement.

Perhaps you’d agree that spending time to regain what you’ve earned previously is only fun the first time? Maybe you’d even agree that farming flax seeds in Verdant Brink isn’t the most challenging or rewarding experience you’ve found in the game? If you concede either of these points, you might see why I don’t relish the thought of spending months doing these things with guild-mates simply to give them what they once had without any added effort.

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Posted by: Celtic Lady.3729

Celtic Lady.3729

That said, I am in a hurry to recoup lost guild capability, not to have a maximum level guild hall. All I really want is to be able to provide the 3-5 members I rely on most with the same services I offered them in September. That’s not a big ask.

I don’t get it. Why was there a setback that you have to regain at all? Shouldn’t every guild still have everything they had before without redoing it? Sounds like super bad design.

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Posted by: Brown Fang Thump.9482

Brown Fang Thump.9482

People who want to start a guild and attract new guildies are going to have an uphill struggle to get and keep new people if they have no finished hall, no large roster and have to ask for donations.

New players who enter the game 3-6 months from now will have a host of leveled up guilds to choose from; but, if they attempt to start a new guild with other new players, they won’t have the materials or coin necessary. The guild will serve no purpose for them, except as a chat tool, for months while they amass the resources to upgrade to the most basic guild capabilities.

If they play like many of my members do (no meta builds, limited zerging, limited speed runs in fractals/dungeons) they’ll be too poor to upgrade a guild in a timely fashion.

Remember what it was like to earn your first 20G? How long did that take you?

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Posted by: Brown Fang Thump.9482

Brown Fang Thump.9482

Shouldn’t every guild still have everything they had before without redoing it? Sounds like super bad design.

You might think that a new guild system wouldn’t delete previous capabilities; but, ArenaNet apparently doesn’t see it that way. Many players agree with them.

Curious that.

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Posted by: PopeUrban.2578

PopeUrban.2578

Shouldn’t every guild still have everything they had before without redoing it? Sounds like super bad design.

You might think that a new guild system wouldn’t delete previous capabilities; but, ArenaNet apparently doesn’t see it that way. Many players agree with them.

Curious that.

Unless I’m missing something, they only deleted capabilities that were incompatible with the new design. e.g. timed buffs and other such things that encouraged logins and tags rather than group play.

If you had a consumable unlocked, yo still have it unlocked. You can still do missions and buy it for favor until you have a scribe that can craft it, but it’s more expensive now because guild consumables are simply more expensive in general.

They moved the guild system from a passive part of play to an active and goal oriented one. What they removed needed to be removed. Awarding people a basically infinite supply of buffs just because they have a lot of people logging in while simultaneously making it virtually impossible for others to even acquire said buffs on a reasonable time frame without dumping in a disproportionate amount of gold was a bad system.

The new system is objective based. Yes, if you have more money, or more players, you’ll complete those objectives faster. However, it’s a temporary rather than a permanent handicap. The old system was one of permanent handicaps, where small guilds worked and spent, and large guilds printed consumables and slept through guild missions.

While your growing pains may be a bit jarring, in the long run this system is actively more beneficial for guild equality, member retention, and overall health of guilds as organizations.

Your mileage may vary, of course, but in my experience this system has encouraged the guild to really get together and accomplish things as a guild, and see satisfying results for those actions. And, I mean, I run a guild that at most has 5 or 6 actives on a normal night.

Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ

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Posted by: SkyShroud.2865

SkyShroud.2865

Yeah, it’s awful.

I have a bank guild that is just totally stagnating and can’t progress at all and then I’m a member of another guild, which is now constantly asking people for donations (or was).

That can’t be good for the leadership to have to do and it’s certainly not good for the members.
Imagine the first impression, if you have just joined the game.

You would think that all guilds ever do is beg their members for gold/donations.

It’s not good.

In my guild, as a leader, I record all the donations that are coming into either the treasury or guild bank. The list is growing longer and longer but at the same time, recording it is important because you will know among all your members, who are the one who cares and the one who don’t.

This is universal truth to all guilds, there are people who cares and people who don’t. Though it is noble for leaders to want to take care of everyone, but it is also very important to know the members who care and the members who don’t.

…and this reaction, Anet, is just one reason why all this was a TERRIBLE idea.

This sounds like a lack of real members or actual leadership ability.

Leadership ability is not (or should not be) about begging for stuff.

People should be able to make/join a guild and then contribute to its growth, automatically, by just playing normally.

This is the polar opposite of that kind of system and as such, it is a major step backwards.

I guess you missed the Guild CDI. Anet want people to intentionally contribute to the growth of the guild instead of just passively contribute to the growth of the guild. Intentionally and passively are very very different. This is not even consider a step backward but rather, people are given the opportunity to directly impact the growth of their guilds. Naturally, people who will want to contribute to the growth of that guild are the people who care enough to take that step. At the end of the day, no matter how much your guild leader “beg”, only those who care will donate while those who don’t, will never donate.

Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International Guild
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com

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Posted by: Labjax.2465

Labjax.2465

It’s too bad I can’t do anything with my one-man guild. I would have to beg myself for contributions all the time.

Or words to that effect.

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

I’m thinking I’m so glad that for my 2 personal bank guilds I knew about the upcoming changes and hustled to get the vaults unlocked. Anyone who wants the same as us vets from now on is out of luck. Anyone who aspires to be a big time trading post flipper won’t be able to have that storage either. (From previous posts I’ve read that they can have multiple personal bank guilds with full storage to hold their stuff). This is an enormous benefit to vets and almost unattainable to the new people.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

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Posted by: FrizzFreston.5290

FrizzFreston.5290

I’m thinking I’m so glad that for my 2 personal bank guilds I knew about the upcoming changes and hustled to get the vaults unlocked. Anyone who wants the same as us vets from now on is out of luck. Anyone who aspires to be a big time trading post flipper won’t be able to have that storage either. (From previous posts I’ve read that they can have multiple personal bank guilds with full storage to hold their stuff). This is an enormous benefit to vets and almost unattainable to the new people.

That’s very true. But I don’t think that guilds were supposed to be personal vaults. The previous system obviously made guild vaults available for gold and such.

Also. I believe some previous consumable upgrades you had are still accessible through an NPC in the guild office. I haven’t checked which ones sadly.

Also all the guild features unlocked previously are unlocked in the guild hall already. The problem is that they are still behind this building restoration stuff. So it becomes: Yeah you had this stuff but now you first need this super expensive building to access it like before.

“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

Yeah. No one would ever try to beat the system by artificially making their guild smaller ever. >_> /sarcasm

Some might try, but due to aetherium and favou cap “beating the system” takes just too long to try cheat it that way. I mean, the first time they mentioned arenas, they were supposed to be available in what, 2 months at the fastest possible time? They moved them up the queue, but that doesn’t mean that the queue itself got any shorter. The full guildhall is supposed to take months for the big guilds (you know, the ones that are supposed to build things as fast as aetherium will let them).

Do you really think that a 400+ players guild will practically disband for several months just to cheese the system? They would lose most of their players halfway before reaching that point…

But yeah, lower prices/material requirements and more branching (and cheap small upgrades accessible relatively early, like the bank and merchant currently) would work too. Ability to trickle favour (even by a small amount – something like a daily influence, but on a weekly basis) by just playing would be good too.

That said, I am in a hurry to recoup lost guild capability, not to have a maximum level guild hall. All I really want is to be able to provide the 3-5 members I rely on most with the same services I offered them in September. That’s not a big ask.

I don’t get it. Why was there a setback that you have to regain at all? Shouldn’t every guild still have everything they had before without redoing it? Sounds like super bad design.

Yes, it is.

To clarify: the banner recipes you had are unlocked automatically, but to actually craft them again, you need to build workshop upgrades first, and level up a scribe profession. The same with WvW siege (though they apparently require different upgrade paths). The 24/48h buffs, and wvw buffs are just gone, and replaced by new ones that need to be researched from scratch.

Basically, the only thing from the old guild that remains and is accessible immediately without need of prior reunlocking is guild bank.

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

(edited by Astralporing.1957)

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Posted by: PopeUrban.2578

PopeUrban.2578

To clarify: the banner recipes you had are unlocked automatically, but to actually craft them again, you need to build workshop upgrades first, and level up a scribe profession. The same with WvW siege (though they apparently require different upgrade paths). The 24/48h buffs, and wvw buffs are just gone, and replaced by new ones that need to be researched from scratch.

Basically, the only thing from the old guild that remains and is accessible immediately without need of prior reunlocking is guild bank.

True. However you can also buy any consumable you had unlocked in the old system with favor from an NPC in the guild initiative. They still require you to do guild content, just like the versions crafted by scribes.

You still have access to those old unlocks even without a single bit of progress in the new system, and unliek people who didn’t have the unlocks, you can actually produce them without spending any material resources, an ability that no new guild has.

In addition, when you do build the guild hall those unlocks are still unlocked, meaning you don’t have to spend resources, aetherium, or favor to unlock them again once you get to that point.

Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ

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Posted by: serialkicker.5274

serialkicker.5274

I suggest Anet puts rewards/resources for completing activities with your guildmates.
For example: If you run a dungeon with 3 or more guild members, you have chance to earn X amount of Y resources, that would come as a bonus reward at the end of dungeon and would automatically transfer into guild treasury.

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Posted by: Jimmus.2083

Jimmus.2083

A Guild Hall is a huge hole in the ground for smaller guilds. A constant, grindy gold sink, where players are constantly asked to throw their most precious, expensive materials into building an upgrade that offers little or no benefits. We are stopping at the Workshop. I’m broke, tired of begging players for materials (they’re broke too) and none of the additions appear to make any of the gameplay significantly better. Done. Screw you, Arenanet.

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Posted by: Kulvar.1239

Kulvar.1239

You don’t have to put a coin in guild hall unless very special components…
People trying to get everything instantly is not something intended to be cheap.
Guild mates are supposed to work together, not lazily throw gold in TP.

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Posted by: fixit.7189

fixit.7189

Before HoT, I could just play doing whatever I want and still advance the guild b/c I could help earn influence just by playing. Now, guilds are a major money pit where leaders/officers are constantly shamming/begging us to pay up. I prefer the old way, since I can contribute by just playing and not how much money I spend. Seemingly many guilds have their own little internal gang where new members are not welcome, I begin to question why I even bother with one now….

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Posted by: PopeUrban.2578

PopeUrban.2578

Before HoT, I could just play doing whatever I want and still advance the guild b/c I could help earn influence just by playing. Now, guilds are a major money pit where leaders/officers are constantly shamming/begging us to pay up. I prefer the old way, since I can contribute by just playing and not how much money I spend. Seemingly many guilds have their own little internal gang where new members are not welcome, I begin to question why I even bother with one now….

The passive nature of the system was exactly what Anet didn’t like about it. it didn’t encourage guilds to approach content or tasks as guilds, and encouraged mass recruiting or dumping endless amounts of money in to inf more than simply tackling guild-specific missions or economic goals.

The new system is one of permanent unlocks for resources, and requires guilds to play together to get guild things. It requires effort from guilds to get guild rewards rather than just handing them out for doing non-guild things.

Anet does not want you just playing whatever content and still benefitting the guild. They want guilds to have objectives and play content together as guilds to get rewarded as guilds.

Small guilds are not stuck endlessly dumping gold just to keep up buffs, large guilds don’t get an endless supply of free stuff just for having people log in. Guilds of all sizes are now requires to put forth an equivalent amount of effort for an equivalent amount of reward.

You now get out of your guild what you are willing to put in to it.

The inf system was an endless money pit for small guilds and cost nothing for large guilds. The new system is a fixed cost for all guilds, that will take longer or shorter amounts of time based upon contribution, and requires all guilds to invest an equal amount of effort in playing guild content to move it along.

That’s a far far better system that is more in line with the rest of the game.

Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ

(edited by PopeUrban.2578)

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Posted by: fixit.7189

fixit.7189

Well, I guess it’s back to solo. All guilds do is take and take and take and never give back now so I don’t buy this line what so ever;

You now get out your guild what you are willing to put into it

At least before HoT I’d get some nice buffs for the effort but now those are gone. Basically, my worth as a guildy is now based on how much gold/mats I donate; is this the new measuring stick to judge who is a good guildy and who is not? Apparently…

(edited by fixit.7189)

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Posted by: Grim West.3194

Grim West.3194

HoT’s guild “improvements” were a light year step…. backwards.