GW2 is No Longer a Refuge :(
You are just way off base.
The problem is that small guilds had everything they ALREADY HAD EARNED taken away and put behind massive grind / pay walls that only a large guild can afford.
Guild halls are another issue to be sure. But the theft by ANET of all the work done already is total BS.
This is the crux of my issues. ANet made big changes. Some players don’t like them but the company remains utterly silent about those issues. If they do not address it I will assume they have gone the way of the WoW devs and do not care what I think anymore. That will be the end of my money for this game. I already feel I’ve wasted the money I’ve paid in the past two months.
They aren’t doing themselves any favors to the F2P players like me that they converted into customers. No more BL purchases for me until they say something and address the complaints.
In the end we all have to realize that this is an MMO. Massively-Multiplayer-Online. I’m sure there’s plenty of games where you can have a great time and be able to do everything with 2-3 people. In the end there’s nothing ANet can do. Scaling won’t work well with a guild hall because it’s too easy to get around- lower mats required for a guild with less people? Sure, everyone leave the guild, wait a few days, and rejoin. The reality is that people will complain no matter what they do. You can not make everyone happy. And I don’t see how this is no longer casual friendly because of these few changes. This is hardly even 5% of the game, and nothing in the core world has really changed.
That is such a weak response… being that it is an MMO, why would you have any solo content what so ever? Guessing you didn’t play EQ/EQ2 with group required gating content? The scale at which you need others even in an “MMO” is obviously varied per-implementation regardless of what you seem to think it is.
I personally do not like large guilds and will not contribute to this misguided attempt to build social ties and keep people invested. The sad part is that you really should focus on smaller tight knit groups to build those social bonds. The large mc’guilds will not make people feel personally attached enough to achieve their goals.
Yes, I definitely said you should not be able to do ANYTHING solo. Totally. I said you should not expect to do EVERYTHING solo. Hence the name of the genre.
Of course I would like it if small guilds could keep up with large ones. But therein lies the issue. If you try to cater to smaller guilds larger guilds will take advantage of the system and get just as far in comparison to the smaller guilds as they do now. It’s a very delicate balance. Until I see someone with an amazing system that large guilds can NOT take advantage of in ANY way, I stand by my point.
You are missing my point. Just because a game is an “MMO” does not require, though it may imply, group content. I was being facetious. Obviously you did not indicate it should be all solo or group content, but to say that an MMO requires group content is also in my opinion invalid. GW2 really only had 5 man content prior to HoT and yet it was still an “MMO”. How exactly is 5 people massive multiplayer? Is it the open world zones that made it massive muliplayer?
5 man content only tri wurm, karka queen and teqatil among others says hello?
And all those scale.
Edit: I guess I should clarify that it didn’t require more than 5 man organized groups . World boss zergs you certainly didn’t need a large guild for those, or a group at all. My point is also simply that while the label “MMO” does imply certain things… it absolutely does not require group content. I would argue that world events and open world is really what constitutes an MMO. Anything less is just multiplayer-online, like warframe, etc. More importantly, having guilds or organizations isn’t part of the core MMO definition.
(edited by pandemos.3497)
In the end we all have to realize that this is an MMO. Massively-Multiplayer-Online. I’m sure there’s plenty of games where you can have a great time and be able to do everything with 2-3 people. In the end there’s nothing ANet can do. Scaling won’t work well with a guild hall because it’s too easy to get around- lower mats required for a guild with less people? Sure, everyone leave the guild, wait a few days, and rejoin. The reality is that people will complain no matter what they do. You can not make everyone happy. And I don’t see how this is no longer casual friendly because of these few changes. This is hardly even 5% of the game, and nothing in the core world has really changed.
That is such a weak response… being that it is an MMO, why would you have any solo content what so ever? Guessing you didn’t play EQ/EQ2 with group required gating content? The scale at which you need others even in an “MMO” is obviously varied per-implementation regardless of what you seem to think it is.
I personally do not like large guilds and will not contribute to this misguided attempt to build social ties and keep people invested. The sad part is that you really should focus on smaller tight knit groups to build those social bonds. The large mc’guilds will not make people feel personally attached enough to achieve their goals.
Yes, I definitely said you should not be able to do ANYTHING solo. Totally. I said you should not expect to do EVERYTHING solo. Hence the name of the genre.
Of course I would like it if small guilds could keep up with large ones. But therein lies the issue. If you try to cater to smaller guilds larger guilds will take advantage of the system and get just as far in comparison to the smaller guilds as they do now. It’s a very delicate balance. Until I see someone with an amazing system that large guilds can NOT take advantage of in ANY way, I stand by my point.
You are missing my point. Just because a game is an “MMO” does not require, though it may imply, group content. I was being facetious. Obviously you did not indicate it should be all solo or group content, but to say that an MMO requires group content is also in my opinion invalid. GW2 really only had 5 man content prior to HoT and yet it was still an “MMO”. How exactly is 5 people massive multiplayer? Is it the open world zones that made it massive muliplayer?
5 man content only tri wurm, karka queen and teqatil among others says hello?
And all those scale.
good try but not down to 5 people, gw2 had massive multiplayer stuff before hot
In the end we all have to realize that this is an MMO. Massively-Multiplayer-Online. I’m sure there’s plenty of games where you can have a great time and be able to do everything with 2-3 people. In the end there’s nothing ANet can do. Scaling won’t work well with a guild hall because it’s too easy to get around- lower mats required for a guild with less people? Sure, everyone leave the guild, wait a few days, and rejoin. The reality is that people will complain no matter what they do. You can not make everyone happy. And I don’t see how this is no longer casual friendly because of these few changes. This is hardly even 5% of the game, and nothing in the core world has really changed.
That is such a weak response… being that it is an MMO, why would you have any solo content what so ever? Guessing you didn’t play EQ/EQ2 with group required gating content? The scale at which you need others even in an “MMO” is obviously varied per-implementation regardless of what you seem to think it is.
I personally do not like large guilds and will not contribute to this misguided attempt to build social ties and keep people invested. The sad part is that you really should focus on smaller tight knit groups to build those social bonds. The large mc’guilds will not make people feel personally attached enough to achieve their goals.
Yes, I definitely said you should not be able to do ANYTHING solo. Totally. I said you should not expect to do EVERYTHING solo. Hence the name of the genre.
Of course I would like it if small guilds could keep up with large ones. But therein lies the issue. If you try to cater to smaller guilds larger guilds will take advantage of the system and get just as far in comparison to the smaller guilds as they do now. It’s a very delicate balance. Until I see someone with an amazing system that large guilds can NOT take advantage of in ANY way, I stand by my point.
You are missing my point. Just because a game is an “MMO” does not require, though it may imply, group content. I was being facetious. Obviously you did not indicate it should be all solo or group content, but to say that an MMO requires group content is also in my opinion invalid. GW2 really only had 5 man content prior to HoT and yet it was still an “MMO”. How exactly is 5 people massive multiplayer? Is it the open world zones that made it massive muliplayer?
5 man content only tri wurm, karka queen and teqatil among others says hello?
You have no idea what an MMO really is all about… its not about the content that’s out there… its about having the ability to have lots of players online playing the whole content base at any one time same time .
TEQ, 3HW, HoT map metas etc – yeah they require contributions by many players.. that’s the beauty of an MMO and especially openworld MMO – that content is inclusive for all, you don’t need to be grouped or a number in a large guild its there for any and all…
MMO has no bearing on why small guilds or micro guilds should not exist and it certainly doesn’t mean everyone has to become a number within a large guild or GTFO.
Try to engage some grey matter before jumping in with meaningless responses..
In the end we all have to realize that this is an MMO. Massively-Multiplayer-Online. I’m sure there’s plenty of games where you can have a great time and be able to do everything with 2-3 people. In the end there’s nothing ANet can do. Scaling won’t work well with a guild hall because it’s too easy to get around- lower mats required for a guild with less people? Sure, everyone leave the guild, wait a few days, and rejoin. The reality is that people will complain no matter what they do. You can not make everyone happy. And I don’t see how this is no longer casual friendly because of these few changes. This is hardly even 5% of the game, and nothing in the core world has really changed.
That is such a weak response… being that it is an MMO, why would you have any solo content what so ever? Guessing you didn’t play EQ/EQ2 with group required gating content? The scale at which you need others even in an “MMO” is obviously varied per-implementation regardless of what you seem to think it is.
I personally do not like large guilds and will not contribute to this misguided attempt to build social ties and keep people invested. The sad part is that you really should focus on smaller tight knit groups to build those social bonds. The large mc’guilds will not make people feel personally attached enough to achieve their goals.
Yes, I definitely said you should not be able to do ANYTHING solo. Totally. I said you should not expect to do EVERYTHING solo. Hence the name of the genre.
Of course I would like it if small guilds could keep up with large ones. But therein lies the issue. If you try to cater to smaller guilds larger guilds will take advantage of the system and get just as far in comparison to the smaller guilds as they do now. It’s a very delicate balance. Until I see someone with an amazing system that large guilds can NOT take advantage of in ANY way, I stand by my point.
You are missing my point. Just because a game is an “MMO” does not require, though it may imply, group content. I was being facetious. Obviously you did not indicate it should be all solo or group content, but to say that an MMO requires group content is also in my opinion invalid. GW2 really only had 5 man content prior to HoT and yet it was still an “MMO”. How exactly is 5 people massive multiplayer? Is it the open world zones that made it massive muliplayer?
5 man content only tri wurm, karka queen and teqatil among others says hello?
And all those scale.
good try but not down to 5 people, gw2 had massive multiplayer stuff before hot
I can’t remember the last time I grouped for one of those… except to taxi in. I think prior to HoT GW2 was a shining example of an MMO allowing for individual participation. Now with cookie cutter raiding specs, the holy trinity, guild size requirements, I really might as well just play any MMO.
Edit: sorry, somewhat off topic but the more I think about the things I don’t like about HoT they seem to bleed together. Really at issue is the progress guilds lost and the smaller guilds having lost the most, and even those like myself that prefer to go solo as much as possible.
(edited by pandemos.3497)
I always see the “make the Guild Hall Upgrades scale with the number of members the guild has” FIX. What can stop me from kicking all my guild members,get the mats i need from them,get the upgrade and then invite them again…?!
It might be hard for small guilds to do stuff…but as many people said if you create a guild and you are 2-3 members…let’s be honest,how can you expect to do any content with that guild?
I am a guild leader since 14 november 2013 we had many members now we don’t …let’s say 10-15 daily online members,that is a small guild,yet we don’t complain about the upgrades and we work hard to get our amazing guild hall in a nice shape.
We got all the buildings (tents for now) available and many of the upgrades.
And we are working constantly on it.They could base it on the max guild roster size. You know the guy you gotta pay to increase your guild member cap? That. If your are a first level guild with the lowest member cap your upgrades are cheaper. The higher your member cap the more you pay. Anet can reset all guilds member caps to the lowest possible for their guild and refund the cost to the guild leader as a one time courtesy.
Hm… three things that I foresee this would affect:
1) if the guild’s cap was cut, the guild members would also have to be cut (temporarily). Building up a lost build roster could cause havoc. All those previously happy people would come to the forum and flame us.
2) big guilds who have already farmed everything and worked very hard would suddenly find that their resources were spent on nothing. More flamers.
3) guilds that want to be big wouldn’t want to have to pay tons simply to upgrade things that small guilds can upgrade for cheap. They would keep the roster empty or at the lowest cap until all the upgrades have been bought, and then bring people back. All the stranded members would understand the advantage and would donate to their guild to progress it. The same issue would still stand, because those guilds would have access to so many resources/income streams that smaller guilds don’t.But something that would make sense: adding small guild halls for small guilds. Services could be smaller (except WvW buffs) and more affordable for small guilds. Every guild wants a place to call home! And I personally feel that the guild halls are too insanely massive – unless, of course, they are brimming with members who hang out there regularly. Again, small guilds need smaller places. I want a hobbit hole. Or maybe a little old-Ascalon keep.
(Guild Wars 1 guild hall vendor quote: “Truly, what guild can call itself a guild without an island of its own? Come with me. I can take you on a tour of each island, and you can choose which you like the best.”)
I still just vote that contributions to guilds be based on the individual… if you want guild services you contribute X amount, regardless of guild size. Complete eliminates the complexity and makes everyone accountable. The freeloaders won’t like it… but that shouldn’t be a surprise.
Wait… do you mean handicap the guild until everyone has logged in and contributed? Or that each individual has to pay to access something that already exists in a guild?
If it’s the former, I can’t say that sounds great to me.
If it’s the latter, it feels like a pure resource sink. If the guild already owns something, the only money/resource transfers that should happen (if at all) should be channeled directly to the guild leader or the people who originally unlocked it. Having everyone unlock some random vendor who is standing there anyways is just strange. It’d be like everyone had their own separate guild rather than being part of a single guild. Plus, it encourages people not to work together and to hoard their things – for future updates if nothing else. =/
Been there, punned that.
Ehmry Bay Guardian
Ehmry Bay Guardian
In the end we all have to realize that this is an MMO. Massively-Multiplayer-Online. I’m sure there’s plenty of games where you can have a great time and be able to do everything with 2-3 people. In the end there’s nothing ANet can do. Scaling won’t work well with a guild hall because it’s too easy to get around- lower mats required for a guild with less people? Sure, everyone leave the guild, wait a few days, and rejoin. The reality is that people will complain no matter what they do. You can not make everyone happy. And I don’t see how this is no longer casual friendly because of these few changes. This is hardly even 5% of the game, and nothing in the core world has really changed.
That is such a weak response… being that it is an MMO, why would you have any solo content what so ever? Guessing you didn’t play EQ/EQ2 with group required gating content? The scale at which you need others even in an “MMO” is obviously varied per-implementation regardless of what you seem to think it is.
I personally do not like large guilds and will not contribute to this misguided attempt to build social ties and keep people invested. The sad part is that you really should focus on smaller tight knit groups to build those social bonds. The large mc’guilds will not make people feel personally attached enough to achieve their goals.
Yes, I definitely said you should not be able to do ANYTHING solo. Totally. I said you should not expect to do EVERYTHING solo. Hence the name of the genre.
Of course I would like it if small guilds could keep up with large ones. But therein lies the issue. If you try to cater to smaller guilds larger guilds will take advantage of the system and get just as far in comparison to the smaller guilds as they do now. It’s a very delicate balance. Until I see someone with an amazing system that large guilds can NOT take advantage of in ANY way, I stand by my point.
You are missing my point. Just because a game is an “MMO” does not require, though it may imply, group content. I was being facetious. Obviously you did not indicate it should be all solo or group content, but to say that an MMO requires group content is also in my opinion invalid. GW2 really only had 5 man content prior to HoT and yet it was still an “MMO”. How exactly is 5 people massive multiplayer? Is it the open world zones that made it massive muliplayer?
5 man content only tri wurm, karka queen and teqatil among others says hello?
And all those scale.
good try but not down to 5 people, gw2 had massive multiplayer stuff before hot
I can’t remember the last time I grouped for one of those… except to taxi in. I think prior to HoT GW2 was a shining example of an MMO allowing for individual participation. Now with cookie cutter raiding specs, the holy trinity, guild size requirements, I really might as well just play any MMO.
Edit: sorry, somewhat off topic but the more I think about the things I don’t like about HoT they seem to bleed together. Really at issue is the progress guilds lost and the smaller guilds having lost the most, and even those like myself that prefer to go solo as much as possible.
who said anything about grouping, wer talking about content made for more then 5 players, something you seemed to think gw2 dident have prior to hot.
your quote
GW2 really only had 5 man content prior to HoT and yet it was still an “MMO”. How exactly is 5 people massive multiplayer? Is it the open world zones that made it massive muliplayer?
I always see the “make the Guild Hall Upgrades scale with the number of members the guild has” FIX. What can stop me from kicking all my guild members,get the mats i need from them,get the upgrade and then invite them again…?!
It might be hard for small guilds to do stuff…but as many people said if you create a guild and you are 2-3 members…let’s be honest,how can you expect to do any content with that guild?
I am a guild leader since 14 november 2013 we had many members now we don’t …let’s say 10-15 daily online members,that is a small guild,yet we don’t complain about the upgrades and we work hard to get our amazing guild hall in a nice shape.
We got all the buildings (tents for now) available and many of the upgrades.
And we are working constantly on it.They could base it on the max guild roster size. You know the guy you gotta pay to increase your guild member cap? That. If your are a first level guild with the lowest member cap your upgrades are cheaper. The higher your member cap the more you pay. Anet can reset all guilds member caps to the lowest possible for their guild and refund the cost to the guild leader as a one time courtesy.
Hm… three things that I foresee this would affect:
1) if the guild’s cap was cut, the guild members would also have to be cut (temporarily). Building up a lost build roster could cause havoc. All those previously happy people would come to the forum and flame us.
2) big guilds who have already farmed everything and worked very hard would suddenly find that their resources were spent on nothing. More flamers.
3) guilds that want to be big wouldn’t want to have to pay tons simply to upgrade things that small guilds can upgrade for cheap. They would keep the roster empty or at the lowest cap until all the upgrades have been bought, and then bring people back. All the stranded members would understand the advantage and would donate to their guild to progress it. The same issue would still stand, because those guilds would have access to so many resources/income streams that smaller guilds don’t.But something that would make sense: adding small guild halls for small guilds. Services could be smaller (except WvW buffs) and more affordable for small guilds. Every guild wants a place to call home! And I personally feel that the guild halls are too insanely massive – unless, of course, they are brimming with members who hang out there regularly. Again, small guilds need smaller places. I want a hobbit hole. Or maybe a little old-Ascalon keep.
(Guild Wars 1 guild hall vendor quote: “Truly, what guild can call itself a guild without an island of its own? Come with me. I can take you on a tour of each island, and you can choose which you like the best.”)
I still just vote that contributions to guilds be based on the individual… if you want guild services you contribute X amount, regardless of guild size. Complete eliminates the complexity and makes everyone accountable. The freeloaders won’t like it… but that shouldn’t be a surprise.
Wait… do you mean handicap the guild until everyone has logged in and contributed? Or that each individual has to pay to access something that already exists in a guild?
If it’s the former, I can’t say that sounds great to me.
If it’s the latter, it feels like a pure resource sink. If the guild already owns something, the only money/resource transfers that should happen (if at all) should be channeled directly to the guild leader or the people who originally unlocked it. Having everyone unlock some random vendor who is standing there anyways is just strange. It’d be like everyone had their own separate guild rather than being part of a single guild. Plus, it encourages people not to work together and to hoard their things – for future updates if nothing else. =/
more like oh you made this tavern that only holds 25 people and your 26 now here is the materials you need to upgrade it to hold up to 50 people before you can use it again.
Most guild would just kick nr26 then i guess
Edit
Oh who am I kidding we would have people start threads like wer 27 people why do we have to pay as much kitten people this is unfair.
Untill anet made it scale in single digits.
And then people would complain what 1 more player is this much materials outrageous Nerf please.
(edited by Linken.6345)
In the end we all have to realize that this is an MMO. Massively-Multiplayer-Online. I’m sure there’s plenty of games where you can have a great time and be able to do everything with 2-3 people. In the end there’s nothing ANet can do. Scaling won’t work well with a guild hall because it’s too easy to get around- lower mats required for a guild with less people? Sure, everyone leave the guild, wait a few days, and rejoin. The reality is that people will complain no matter what they do. You can not make everyone happy. And I don’t see how this is no longer casual friendly because of these few changes. This is hardly even 5% of the game, and nothing in the core world has really changed.
That is such a weak response… being that it is an MMO, why would you have any solo content what so ever? Guessing you didn’t play EQ/EQ2 with group required gating content? The scale at which you need others even in an “MMO” is obviously varied per-implementation regardless of what you seem to think it is.
I personally do not like large guilds and will not contribute to this misguided attempt to build social ties and keep people invested. The sad part is that you really should focus on smaller tight knit groups to build those social bonds. The large mc’guilds will not make people feel personally attached enough to achieve their goals.
Yes, I definitely said you should not be able to do ANYTHING solo. Totally. I said you should not expect to do EVERYTHING solo. Hence the name of the genre.
Of course I would like it if small guilds could keep up with large ones. But therein lies the issue. If you try to cater to smaller guilds larger guilds will take advantage of the system and get just as far in comparison to the smaller guilds as they do now. It’s a very delicate balance. Until I see someone with an amazing system that large guilds can NOT take advantage of in ANY way, I stand by my point.
You are missing my point. Just because a game is an “MMO” does not require, though it may imply, group content. I was being facetious. Obviously you did not indicate it should be all solo or group content, but to say that an MMO requires group content is also in my opinion invalid. GW2 really only had 5 man content prior to HoT and yet it was still an “MMO”. How exactly is 5 people massive multiplayer? Is it the open world zones that made it massive muliplayer?
5 man content only tri wurm, karka queen and teqatil among others says hello?
And all those scale.
good try but not down to 5 people, gw2 had massive multiplayer stuff before hot
I can’t remember the last time I grouped for one of those… except to taxi in. I think prior to HoT GW2 was a shining example of an MMO allowing for individual participation. Now with cookie cutter raiding specs, the holy trinity, guild size requirements, I really might as well just play any MMO.
Edit: sorry, somewhat off topic but the more I think about the things I don’t like about HoT they seem to bleed together. Really at issue is the progress guilds lost and the smaller guilds having lost the most, and even those like myself that prefer to go solo as much as possible.
who said anything about grouping, wer talking about content made for more then 5 players, something you seemed to think gw2 dident have prior to hot.
your quote
GW2 really only had 5 man content prior to HoT and yet it was still an “MMO”. How exactly is 5 people massive multiplayer? Is it the open world zones that made it massive muliplayer?
While a subtle difference… it is the intimacy of the content and the scrutiny you endure. World boss encounters are simplistic and required neither. If they were sufficient “group” content then we would see more of them and not the addition of a traditional raid.
I still just vote that contributions to guilds be based on the individual… if you want guild services you contribute X amount, regardless of guild size. Complete eliminates the complexity and makes everyone accountable. The freeloaders won’t like it… but that shouldn’t be a surprise.
I second this. I’m totally fine with individual responsibility/ownership. It would indeed eliminate my whole problem with their shoddy guild hall execution. The people who really benefit from their new system are indeed the freeloaders. WTG, Anet!
I still just vote that contributions to guilds be based on the individual… if you want guild services you contribute X amount, regardless of guild size. Complete eliminates the complexity and makes everyone accountable. The freeloaders won’t like it… but that shouldn’t be a surprise.
I second this. I’m totally fine with individual responsibility/ownership. It would indeed eliminate my whole problem with their shoddy guild hall execution. The people who really benefit from their new system are indeed the freeloaders. WTG, Anet!
Yeah, big guilds will always have the most freeloaders, haha. But I still think there should be smaller guild halls. =P
Been there, punned that.
Ehmry Bay Guardian
Ehmry Bay Guardian
I always see the “make the Guild Hall Upgrades scale with the number of members the guild has” FIX. What can stop me from kicking all my guild members,get the mats i need from them,get the upgrade and then invite them again…?!
It might be hard for small guilds to do stuff…but as many people said if you create a guild and you are 2-3 members…let’s be honest,how can you expect to do any content with that guild?
I am a guild leader since 14 november 2013 we had many members now we don’t …let’s say 10-15 daily online members,that is a small guild,yet we don’t complain about the upgrades and we work hard to get our amazing guild hall in a nice shape.
We got all the buildings (tents for now) available and many of the upgrades.
And we are working constantly on it.They could base it on the max guild roster size. You know the guy you gotta pay to increase your guild member cap? That. If your are a first level guild with the lowest member cap your upgrades are cheaper. The higher your member cap the more you pay. Anet can reset all guilds member caps to the lowest possible for their guild and refund the cost to the guild leader as a one time courtesy.
Hm… three things that I foresee this would affect:
1) if the guild’s cap was cut, the guild members would also have to be cut (temporarily). Building up a lost build roster could cause havoc. All those previously happy people would come to the forum and flame us.
2) big guilds who have already farmed everything and worked very hard would suddenly find that their resources were spent on nothing. More flamers.
3) guilds that want to be big wouldn’t want to have to pay tons simply to upgrade things that small guilds can upgrade for cheap. They would keep the roster empty or at the lowest cap until all the upgrades have been bought, and then bring people back. All the stranded members would understand the advantage and would donate to their guild to progress it. The same issue would still stand, because those guilds would have access to so many resources/income streams that smaller guilds don’t.But something that would make sense: adding small guild halls for small guilds. Services could be smaller (except WvW buffs) and more affordable for small guilds. Every guild wants a place to call home! And I personally feel that the guild halls are too insanely massive – unless, of course, they are brimming with members who hang out there regularly. Again, small guilds need smaller places. I want a hobbit hole. Or maybe a little old-Ascalon keep.
(Guild Wars 1 guild hall vendor quote: “Truly, what guild can call itself a guild without an island of its own? Come with me. I can take you on a tour of each island, and you can choose which you like the best.”)
I still just vote that contributions to guilds be based on the individual… if you want guild services you contribute X amount, regardless of guild size. Complete eliminates the complexity and makes everyone accountable. The freeloaders won’t like it… but that shouldn’t be a surprise.
Wait… do you mean handicap the guild until everyone has logged in and contributed? Or that each individual has to pay to access something that already exists in a guild?
If it’s the former, I can’t say that sounds great to me.
If it’s the latter, it feels like a pure resource sink. If the guild already owns something, the only money/resource transfers that should happen (if at all) should be channeled directly to the guild leader or the people who originally unlocked it. Having everyone unlock some random vendor who is standing there anyways is just strange. It’d be like everyone had their own separate guild rather than being part of a single guild. Plus, it encourages people not to work together and to hoard their things – for future updates if nothing else. =/
more like oh you made this tavern that only holds 25 people and your 26 now here is the materials you need to upgrade it to hold up to 50 people before you can use it again.
Most guild would just kick nr26 then i guess
Edit
Oh who am I kidding we would have people start threads like wer 27 people why do we have to pay as much kitten people this is unfair.
Untill anet made it scale in single digits.
And then people would complain what 1 more player is this much materials outrageous Nerf please.
Also, I didn’t address the point you were making. I was simply asking what constitutes his definition of an MMO not really in relation to what GW2 has or is… because GW2 with WvW, PvP, PvE, open worlds, etc with no question fits almost any definition of the label. This was in contrast to the comment that GW2 being and “MMO” requires X man content… or raids, or guilds, or banks, or chat? The point isn’t what GW2 has or doesn’t have… it was literally that just because it is an MMO it doesn’t absolutely require large guilds.
Edit: word
(edited by pandemos.3497)
I always see the “make the Guild Hall Upgrades scale with the number of members the guild has” FIX. What can stop me from kicking all my guild members,get the mats i need from them,get the upgrade and then invite them again…?!
It might be hard for small guilds to do stuff…but as many people said if you create a guild and you are 2-3 members…let’s be honest,how can you expect to do any content with that guild?
I am a guild leader since 14 november 2013 we had many members now we don’t …let’s say 10-15 daily online members,that is a small guild,yet we don’t complain about the upgrades and we work hard to get our amazing guild hall in a nice shape.
We got all the buildings (tents for now) available and many of the upgrades.
And we are working constantly on it.They could base it on the max guild roster size. You know the guy you gotta pay to increase your guild member cap? That. If your are a first level guild with the lowest member cap your upgrades are cheaper. The higher your member cap the more you pay. Anet can reset all guilds member caps to the lowest possible for their guild and refund the cost to the guild leader as a one time courtesy.
Hm… three things that I foresee this would affect:
1) if the guild’s cap was cut, the guild members would also have to be cut (temporarily). Building up a lost build roster could cause havoc. All those previously happy people would come to the forum and flame us.
2) big guilds who have already farmed everything and worked very hard would suddenly find that their resources were spent on nothing. More flamers.
3) guilds that want to be big wouldn’t want to have to pay tons simply to upgrade things that small guilds can upgrade for cheap. They would keep the roster empty or at the lowest cap until all the upgrades have been bought, and then bring people back. All the stranded members would understand the advantage and would donate to their guild to progress it. The same issue would still stand, because those guilds would have access to so many resources/income streams that smaller guilds don’t.But something that would make sense: adding small guild halls for small guilds. Services could be smaller (except WvW buffs) and more affordable for small guilds. Every guild wants a place to call home! And I personally feel that the guild halls are too insanely massive – unless, of course, they are brimming with members who hang out there regularly. Again, small guilds need smaller places. I want a hobbit hole. Or maybe a little old-Ascalon keep.
(Guild Wars 1 guild hall vendor quote: “Truly, what guild can call itself a guild without an island of its own? Come with me. I can take you on a tour of each island, and you can choose which you like the best.”)
I still just vote that contributions to guilds be based on the individual… if you want guild services you contribute X amount, regardless of guild size. Complete eliminates the complexity and makes everyone accountable. The freeloaders won’t like it… but that shouldn’t be a surprise.
Wait… do you mean handicap the guild until everyone has logged in and contributed? Or that each individual has to pay to access something that already exists in a guild?
If it’s the former, I can’t say that sounds great to me.
If it’s the latter, it feels like a pure resource sink. If the guild already owns something, the only money/resource transfers that should happen (if at all) should be channeled directly to the guild leader or the people who originally unlocked it. Having everyone unlock some random vendor who is standing there anyways is just strange. It’d be like everyone had their own separate guild rather than being part of a single guild. Plus, it encourages people not to work together and to hoard their things – for future updates if nothing else. =/
more like oh you made this tavern that only holds 25 people and your 26 now here is the materials you need to upgrade it to hold up to 50 people before you can use it again.
Most guild would just kick nr26 then i guess
Edit
Oh who am I kidding we would have people start threads like wer 27 people why do we have to pay as much kitten people this is unfair.
Untill anet made it scale in single digits.
And then people would complain what 1 more player is this much materials outrageous Nerf please.
Yeah, some things are very tricky to balance…
I know I keep saying it like… everywhere, but I still feel like having different sizes of guild halls, with accordingly-scaled maximum services, would be a viable option. I can tell you that I wouldn’t mind having a tiny guild hobbit hole that simply isn’t big enough to fit a market/tavern/strategy room/arena (well, maybe a little dueling ring).
Been there, punned that.
Ehmry Bay Guardian
Ehmry Bay Guardian
I always see the “make the Guild Hall Upgrades scale with the number of members the guild has” FIX. What can stop me from kicking all my guild members,get the mats i need from them,get the upgrade and then invite them again…?!
It might be hard for small guilds to do stuff…but as many people said if you create a guild and you are 2-3 members…let’s be honest,how can you expect to do any content with that guild?
I am a guild leader since 14 november 2013 we had many members now we don’t …let’s say 10-15 daily online members,that is a small guild,yet we don’t complain about the upgrades and we work hard to get our amazing guild hall in a nice shape.
We got all the buildings (tents for now) available and many of the upgrades.
And we are working constantly on it.They could base it on the max guild roster size. You know the guy you gotta pay to increase your guild member cap? That. If your are a first level guild with the lowest member cap your upgrades are cheaper. The higher your member cap the more you pay. Anet can reset all guilds member caps to the lowest possible for their guild and refund the cost to the guild leader as a one time courtesy.
Hm… three things that I foresee this would affect:
1) if the guild’s cap was cut, the guild members would also have to be cut (temporarily). Building up a lost build roster could cause havoc. All those previously happy people would come to the forum and flame us.
2) big guilds who have already farmed everything and worked very hard would suddenly find that their resources were spent on nothing. More flamers.
3) guilds that want to be big wouldn’t want to have to pay tons simply to upgrade things that small guilds can upgrade for cheap. They would keep the roster empty or at the lowest cap until all the upgrades have been bought, and then bring people back. All the stranded members would understand the advantage and would donate to their guild to progress it. The same issue would still stand, because those guilds would have access to so many resources/income streams that smaller guilds don’t.But something that would make sense: adding small guild halls for small guilds. Services could be smaller (except WvW buffs) and more affordable for small guilds. Every guild wants a place to call home! And I personally feel that the guild halls are too insanely massive – unless, of course, they are brimming with members who hang out there regularly. Again, small guilds need smaller places. I want a hobbit hole. Or maybe a little old-Ascalon keep.
(Guild Wars 1 guild hall vendor quote: “Truly, what guild can call itself a guild without an island of its own? Come with me. I can take you on a tour of each island, and you can choose which you like the best.”)
I still just vote that contributions to guilds be based on the individual… if you want guild services you contribute X amount, regardless of guild size. Complete eliminates the complexity and makes everyone accountable. The freeloaders won’t like it… but that shouldn’t be a surprise.
Wait… do you mean handicap the guild until everyone has logged in and contributed? Or that each individual has to pay to access something that already exists in a guild?
If it’s the former, I can’t say that sounds great to me.
If it’s the latter, it feels like a pure resource sink. If the guild already owns something, the only money/resource transfers that should happen (if at all) should be channeled directly to the guild leader or the people who originally unlocked it. Having everyone unlock some random vendor who is standing there anyways is just strange. It’d be like everyone had their own separate guild rather than being part of a single guild. Plus, it encourages people not to work together and to hoard their things – for future updates if nothing else. =/
more like oh you made this tavern that only holds 25 people and your 26 now here is the materials you need to upgrade it to hold up to 50 people before you can use it again.
Most guild would just kick nr26 then i guess
Edit
Oh who am I kidding we would have people start threads like wer 27 people why do we have to pay as much kitten people this is unfair.
Untill anet made it scale in single digits.
And then people would complain what 1 more player is this much materials outrageous Nerf please.Yeah, some things are very tricky to balance…
I know I keep saying it like… everywhere, but I still feel like having different sizes of guild halls, with accordingly-scaled maximum services, would be a viable option. I can tell you that I wouldn’t mind having a tiny guild hobbit hole that simply isn’t big enough to fit a market/tavern/strategy room/arena (well, maybe a little dueling ring).
My personal proposal wasn’t considering scaling… and I was actually thinking of the latter, where each individual gains access to features based on their own contribution. The guild halls are nothing but mat/gold sinks anyway. That is a major intent of their existence, but I understand not wanting it to be blatant.
If you want it to require a certain number of people to contribute to open specific guild features, then it really just reinforces minimal guild size requirements which I feel ruins a major appeal for GW2.
Try to engage some grey matter before jumping in with meaningless responses..
Win.
In the end we all have to realize that this is an MMO. Massively-Multiplayer-Online. I’m sure there’s plenty of games where you can have a great time and be able to do everything with 2-3 people. In the end there’s nothing ANet can do. Scaling won’t work well with a guild hall because it’s too easy to get around- lower mats required for a guild with less people? Sure, everyone leave the guild, wait a few days, and rejoin. The reality is that people will complain no matter what they do. You can not make everyone happy. And I don’t see how this is no longer casual friendly because of these few changes. This is hardly even 5% of the game, and nothing in the core world has really changed.
That is such a weak response… being that it is an MMO, why would you have any solo content what so ever? Guessing you didn’t play EQ/EQ2 with group required gating content? The scale at which you need others even in an “MMO” is obviously varied per-implementation regardless of what you seem to think it is.
I personally do not like large guilds and will not contribute to this misguided attempt to build social ties and keep people invested. The sad part is that you really should focus on smaller tight knit groups to build those social bonds. The large mc’guilds will not make people feel personally attached enough to achieve their goals.
Yes, I definitely said you should not be able to do ANYTHING solo. Totally. I said you should not expect to do EVERYTHING solo. Hence the name of the genre.
Of course I would like it if small guilds could keep up with large ones. But therein lies the issue. If you try to cater to smaller guilds larger guilds will take advantage of the system and get just as far in comparison to the smaller guilds as they do now. It’s a very delicate balance. Until I see someone with an amazing system that large guilds can NOT take advantage of in ANY way, I stand by my point.
You are missing my point. Just because a game is an “MMO” does not require, though it may imply, group content. I was being facetious. Obviously you did not indicate it should be all solo or group content, but to say that an MMO requires group content is also in my opinion invalid. GW2 really only had 5 man content prior to HoT and yet it was still an “MMO”. How exactly is 5 people massive multiplayer? Is it the open world zones that made it massive muliplayer?
Basically the extent of “Massively” is decided by the game. In this case the staple seems to be 5 players at least. Which I do think is a little small, and the raid size seems to be more fitting. But the whole point of an MMO is allowing people to do things outside the extent of single player and co-op. It SHOULD imply group content if it is an MMO. If all you want is a social environment, play skyrim while Skyping five people. Following this nature, I believe that not everything should be able to be soloed. That’s my opinion at least, and you indicate that you think otherwise, which is fine. Tying this back to the discussion on the guild hall, I do think it would be nice for a guild of 2-3 to be able to build it up relatively well without requiring hundreds of gold. But at the same time I don’t think that if that is not the case, it qualifies GW2 as no longer casual friendly and no longer a refuge.
I always see the “make the Guild Hall Upgrades scale with the number of members the guild has” FIX. What can stop me from kicking all my guild members,get the mats i need from them,get the upgrade and then invite them again…?!
It might be hard for small guilds to do stuff…but as many people said if you create a guild and you are 2-3 members…let’s be honest,how can you expect to do any content with that guild?
I am a guild leader since 14 november 2013 we had many members now we don’t …let’s say 10-15 daily online members,that is a small guild,yet we don’t complain about the upgrades and we work hard to get our amazing guild hall in a nice shape.
We got all the buildings (tents for now) available and many of the upgrades.
And we are working constantly on it.They could base it on the max guild roster size. You know the guy you gotta pay to increase your guild member cap? That. If your are a first level guild with the lowest member cap your upgrades are cheaper. The higher your member cap the more you pay. Anet can reset all guilds member caps to the lowest possible for their guild and refund the cost to the guild leader as a one time courtesy.
Hm… three things that I foresee this would affect:
1) if the guild’s cap was cut, the guild members would also have to be cut (temporarily). Building up a lost build roster could cause havoc. All those previously happy people would come to the forum and flame us.
2) big guilds who have already farmed everything and worked very hard would suddenly find that their resources were spent on nothing. More flamers.
3) guilds that want to be big wouldn’t want to have to pay tons simply to upgrade things that small guilds can upgrade for cheap. They would keep the roster empty or at the lowest cap until all the upgrades have been bought, and then bring people back. All the stranded members would understand the advantage and would donate to their guild to progress it. The same issue would still stand, because those guilds would have access to so many resources/income streams that smaller guilds don’t.But something that would make sense: adding small guild halls for small guilds. Services could be smaller (except WvW buffs) and more affordable for small guilds. Every guild wants a place to call home! And I personally feel that the guild halls are too insanely massive – unless, of course, they are brimming with members who hang out there regularly. Again, small guilds need smaller places. I want a hobbit hole. Or maybe a little old-Ascalon keep.
(Guild Wars 1 guild hall vendor quote: “Truly, what guild can call itself a guild without an island of its own? Come with me. I can take you on a tour of each island, and you can choose which you like the best.”)
I still just vote that contributions to guilds be based on the individual… if you want guild services you contribute X amount, regardless of guild size. Complete eliminates the complexity and makes everyone accountable. The freeloaders won’t like it… but that shouldn’t be a surprise.
Wait… do you mean handicap the guild until everyone has logged in and contributed? Or that each individual has to pay to access something that already exists in a guild?
If it’s the former, I can’t say that sounds great to me.
If it’s the latter, it feels like a pure resource sink. If the guild already owns something, the only money/resource transfers that should happen (if at all) should be channeled directly to the guild leader or the people who originally unlocked it. Having everyone unlock some random vendor who is standing there anyways is just strange. It’d be like everyone had their own separate guild rather than being part of a single guild. Plus, it encourages people not to work together and to hoard their things – for future updates if nothing else. =/
more like oh you made this tavern that only holds 25 people and your 26 now here is the materials you need to upgrade it to hold up to 50 people before you can use it again.
Most guild would just kick nr26 then i guess
Edit
Oh who am I kidding we would have people start threads like wer 27 people why do we have to pay as much kitten people this is unfair.
Untill anet made it scale in single digits.
And then people would complain what 1 more player is this much materials outrageous Nerf please.Yeah, some things are very tricky to balance…
I know I keep saying it like… everywhere, but I still feel like having different sizes of guild halls, with accordingly-scaled maximum services, would be a viable option. I can tell you that I wouldn’t mind having a tiny guild hobbit hole that simply isn’t big enough to fit a market/tavern/strategy room/arena (well, maybe a little dueling ring).
My personal proposal wasn’t considering scaling… and I was actually thinking of the latter, where each individual gains access to features based on their own contribution. The guild halls are nothing but mat/gold sinks anyway. That is a major intent of their existence, but I understand not wanting it to be blatant.
If you want it to require a certain number of people to contribute to open specific guild features, then it really just reinforces minimal guild size requirements which I feel ruins a major appeal for GW2.
^ Exactly, which is why I wouldn’t hate a smaller hall with (logically) smaller/less features as an option for smaller guilds like mine. Of course, it should still be able to unlock the upgrades that people were able to unlock before the HoT update. We didn’t even need halls for that stuff.
Been there, punned that.
Ehmry Bay Guardian
Ehmry Bay Guardian
Just in case no one else has said it: skins are NOT content, skins are fluff…and I don’t really care what other say about it…skins are NOT content.
Small guilds lost everything they had because HOT makes it nigh on impossible for them to re-earn what they already HAD!
Exactly.
Small guilds never mind working harder and taking longer – we always have had to – but this is a lifetime commitment. Like…to gather all the mats for full restoration 2, it would take me the entire forseeable future.
What could be nice is if they added some nice customisation features to the guild headquarters instance in Lion’s Arch for small guilds. The features could be weaker versions of some of the guild hall things that are more attainable for small groups.
Small guilds lost everything they had because HOT makes it nigh on impossible for them to re-earn what they already HAD!
Exactly.
Small guilds never mind working harder and taking longer – we always have had to – but this is a lifetime commitment. Like…to gather all the mats for full restoration 2, it would take me the entire forseeable future.What could be nice is if they added some nice customisation features to the guild headquarters instance in Lion’s Arch for small guilds. The features could be weaker versions of some of the guild hall things that are more attainable for small groups.
^ This, but with small guild halls instead of just utilizing Lion’s Arch. I want a hobbit hole or a little old-Ascalonian keep for my little guild! =P
Been there, punned that.
Ehmry Bay Guardian
Ehmry Bay Guardian
The reason a guild would have 100% rep now days is much harder to justify then before change.
Before rep gave influence that you used to build now it dont, They do however probabely want to build a community in said guild were people get to know eachother hence the 100% rep.
You can read and respond to guild chat, simultaneously, for all the guilds you’re a member of; whether you are repping them, or not.
So, really, there is absolutely no reason for 100% rep, now, apart from possibly for advertising purposes.
By advertising, I mean people seeing people with the guild name running around, so maybe being more inclined to join it.
“Turns out when people play the game, they don’t admire your feet at all.” sephiroth
The reason a guild would have 100% rep now days is much harder to justify then before change.
Before rep gave influence that you used to build now it dont, They do however probabely want to build a community in said guild were people get to know eachother hence the 100% rep.
You can read and respond to guild chat, simultaneously, for all the guilds you’re a member of; whether you are repping them, or not.
So, really, there is absolutely no reason for 100% rep, now, apart from possibly for advertising purposes.
By advertising, I mean people seeing people with the guild name running around, so maybe being more inclined to join it.
Well… when you rep your guild, you can see where all the other (online) people repping the guild are on the world map. Pretty neat change, but still not enough to encourage loyalty everywhere I guess.
Been there, punned that.
Ehmry Bay Guardian
Ehmry Bay Guardian
In the end we all have to realize that this is an MMO. Massively-Multiplayer-Online. I’m sure there’s plenty of games where you can have a great time and be able to do everything with 2-3 people. In the end there’s nothing ANet can do. Scaling won’t work well with a guild hall because it’s too easy to get around- lower mats required for a guild with less people? Sure, everyone leave the guild, wait a few days, and rejoin. The reality is that people will complain no matter what they do. You can not make everyone happy. And I don’t see how this is no longer casual friendly because of these few changes. This is hardly even 5% of the game, and nothing in the core world has really changed.
No, what “we all” have to realise, is that that is not what the term “MMO” refers to and how “we all” could have learned that, in this very thread, is by reading some posts, other than the OP and our own.
The reason a guild would have 100% rep now days is much harder to justify then before change.
Before rep gave influence that you used to build now it dont, They do however probabely want to build a community in said guild were people get to know eachother hence the 100% rep.
You can read and respond to guild chat, simultaneously, for all the guilds you’re a member of; whether you are repping them, or not.
So, really, there is absolutely no reason for 100% rep, now, apart from possibly for advertising purposes.
By advertising, I mean people seeing people with the guild name running around, so maybe being more inclined to join it.
Well… when you rep your guild, you can see where all the other (online) people repping the guild are on the world map. Pretty neat change, but still not enough to encourage loyalty everywhere I guess.
Yeah, I guess that is another valid reason.
Just in case no one else has said it: skins are NOT content, skins are fluff…and I don’t really care what other say about it…skins are NOT content.
They are fluff, but they are fluff that some people really want.
Especially when a game starves you of a decent selection of skins, obtainable from more general content.
“Turns out when people play the game, they don’t admire your feet at all.” sephiroth
(edited by Tigaseye.2047)
I always see the “make the Guild Hall Upgrades scale with the number of members the guild has” FIX. What can stop me from kicking all my guild members,get the mats i need from them,get the upgrade and then invite them again…?!
It might be hard for small guilds to do stuff…but as many people said if you create a guild and you are 2-3 members…let’s be honest,how can you expect to do any content with that guild?
I am a guild leader since 14 november 2013 we had many members now we don’t …let’s say 10-15 daily online members,that is a small guild,yet we don’t complain about the upgrades and we work hard to get our amazing guild hall in a nice shape.
We got all the buildings (tents for now) available and many of the upgrades.
And we are working constantly on it.They could base it on the max guild roster size. You know the guy you gotta pay to increase your guild member cap? That. If your are a first level guild with the lowest member cap your upgrades are cheaper. The higher your member cap the more you pay. Anet can reset all guilds member caps to the lowest possible for their guild and refund the cost to the guild leader as a one time courtesy.
Hm… three things that I foresee this would affect:
1) if the guild’s cap was cut, the guild members would also have to be cut (temporarily). Building up a lost build roster could cause havoc. All those previously happy people would come to the forum and flame us.
2) big guilds who have already farmed everything and worked very hard would suddenly find that their resources were spent on nothing. More flamers.
3) guilds that want to be big wouldn’t want to have to pay tons simply to upgrade things that small guilds can upgrade for cheap. They would keep the roster empty or at the lowest cap until all the upgrades have been bought, and then bring people back. All the stranded members would understand the advantage and would donate to their guild to progress it. The same issue would still stand, because those guilds would have access to so many resources/income streams that smaller guilds don’t.But something that would make sense: adding small guild halls for small guilds. Services could be smaller (except WvW buffs) and more affordable for small guilds. Every guild wants a place to call home! And I personally feel that the guild halls are too insanely massive – unless, of course, they are brimming with members who hang out there regularly. Again, small guilds need smaller places. I want a hobbit hole. Or maybe a little old-Ascalon keep.
(Guild Wars 1 guild hall vendor quote: “Truly, what guild can call itself a guild without an island of its own? Come with me. I can take you on a tour of each island, and you can choose which you like the best.”)
Let me clarify, because I think you missed it.
Your guilds cap would be lowered to the lowest tier that it can support.
Meaning that if your guild is at capacity there is no change, if you are in a guild with 5 people but for some reason raised your cap to 500 people it would be lowered to the lowest tier, 50 people.
More examples:
Guild of 10 people, with a cap of 200, cap lowered to 50.
Guild of 55 people cap of 100, cap is unchanged
guild of 120 people cap of 500, cap is lowered to 200.
How costs are adjusted, there are 6 tiers of guilds. Cost is adjusted based on your cap after your cap is lowered to the appropriate amount.
So a Tier 1 guild (50 member cap) has to pay 1/6th of the cost of an upgrade to get it. Favor and the time gate Aetherium costs stay the same no matter what tier your guild is.
Due to this time gate, large guilds are still better off just paying for each upgrade. Especially when you consider for a 500 member guild, even for the most expensive upgrades you are looking at each member contributing 1-3 items per upgrade.
Compared to a small guild that has to pay 500, 1500 items per upgrade.
If you want when a guild increases its cap you can increase the fee to do that.
Delarme
Apathy Inc [Ai]
Apathy Inc [Ai]
(edited by Draygo.9473)
I am a huge GW2 fan – I’ve brought many people to the game and have been playing since beta, but the reasons I’ve had to come back to this game between every other MMO are pretty much gone.
I’ve played every major MMO from it’s launch through it’s content at launch. Some games (SWTOR, for instance) I get done with all available content before they’ve even finished the intended starting content, so I leave… and I don’t come back. Ever. Other games take a while longer (like WoW expansions, which I stopped buying after Cataclysm or Rift), but when I left, I left. It was done. Finished. Over. GW2 has been my mainstay since it’s launch and, sadly, it won’t be for much longer due to the fact that I can no longer experience all it’s content without being in a guild. A big guild, at that.
The primary reason I kept coming back to GW2 was that I could see all of it’s content without having to deal with people (I’m always a guild/raid leader in other games and that just wears me down) and still be as relevant as I was when I started a break – sometimes a couple of weeks, sometimes a couple of months; I knew the same great game would be waiting for me when I came back. And I put a lot of hard-earned cash into this game because I loved it so much and it earned it.
That has changed and this is why:
https://goo.gl/ZXBiva
I made a little spreadsheet of the required materials just for Resotration 1-affiliated builds in the Guild Hall. This isn’t nearly a quarter of the materials needed to get to the actual content like Weaponsmith 2’s, which require completion of nearly all builds in restoration 2 and a guild level of 40.So, basically, not only can my small guild not even claim it’s own Guild Hall with it’s 2 or 3 people (family – pretty much the only people I can stand any more), but we have to get to guild level 40 and get an insane amount of materials – like completely impossible within the expected lifetime of this game (my kids will be through college before I was able to grind out all materials)- in order to fully experience the game.
I’m done.
I’ll play until I leave (again) for another game, but this time, I’ll have a WHOLE LOT LESS reason to come back. Right now, the MMO field is pretty sparse and dry, so I’m good for a while…. But I’m extremely disappointed that my refuge game is now just another game in a pile of grindy games that require I pretend to like other people. I just won’t do it. Unlike some people, I’m not a pretender… I really am incapable of feigning interest any more.
Wait.. just to get this right.. You don’t like GW2 anymore because you cannot get / upgrade a guild-hall without being in a guild and because of that there is nothing to come back to…
While before (when we did not have guild-halls yet) there was stuff to do.
In any MMORPG there are a few things that pretty much require you to be in a guild, that are Raids and Guild Halls.
Also you say you play other MMO’s content and then leave, but honestly then you don’t play an MMORPG as it supposed to be played imho.
Sure that is a way to play an MMORPG but what usually keeps people playing is chasing rewards. Go for that mini, go for those stats, go for that skin. (One element where GW2 is lacking btw, because it does have many of those items but most just require you to grind gold (for a big part because of the cash-shop). Making it feel grindy on the long run. While with many other MMO’s it requires mostly specific content, so it sends you all over the world doing different task).
There is still a lot of things you can do solo, chase rewards (while like I said, that is grindy, but always has been.) So if there is one thing to complain about when you talk about content that keeps you busy as a solo player it should be that those things are too much of grinding gold instead of multiple different interesting challenges.
But the fact that you as a solo player cannot upgrade a guild-hall is not one of them. That is why it’s a guild-hall. It’s not personal housing, it’s a guild-hall. Complaining about not being able to build up a guild-hall without being in a guild is as complaining you are not able to do WvW without going to a WvW map, not being able to do PvP without going to the PvP area or complaining you can’t do a dungeon without going into a dungeon.
“I’ll play until I leave (again) for another game, but this time, I’ll have a WHOLE LOT LESS reason to come back.” The reasons you had before are still there you know. Guild-Halls where an addition to that what was before.
(edited by Devata.6589)
I always see the “make the Guild Hall Upgrades scale with the number of members the guild has” FIX. What can stop me from kicking all my guild members,get the mats i need from them,get the upgrade and then invite them again…?!
It might be hard for small guilds to do stuff…but as many people said if you create a guild and you are 2-3 members…let’s be honest,how can you expect to do any content with that guild?
I am a guild leader since 14 november 2013 we had many members now we don’t …let’s say 10-15 daily online members,that is a small guild,yet we don’t complain about the upgrades and we work hard to get our amazing guild hall in a nice shape.
We got all the buildings (tents for now) available and many of the upgrades.
And we are working constantly on it.They could base it on the max guild roster size. You know the guy you gotta pay to increase your guild member cap? That. If your are a first level guild with the lowest member cap your upgrades are cheaper. The higher your member cap the more you pay. Anet can reset all guilds member caps to the lowest possible for their guild and refund the cost to the guild leader as a one time courtesy.
Hm… three things that I foresee this would affect:
1) if the guild’s cap was cut, the guild members would also have to be cut (temporarily). Building up a lost build roster could cause havoc. All those previously happy people would come to the forum and flame us.
2) big guilds who have already farmed everything and worked very hard would suddenly find that their resources were spent on nothing. More flamers.
3) guilds that want to be big wouldn’t want to have to pay tons simply to upgrade things that small guilds can upgrade for cheap. They would keep the roster empty or at the lowest cap until all the upgrades have been bought, and then bring people back. All the stranded members would understand the advantage and would donate to their guild to progress it. The same issue would still stand, because those guilds would have access to so many resources/income streams that smaller guilds don’t.But something that would make sense: adding small guild halls for small guilds. Services could be smaller (except WvW buffs) and more affordable for small guilds. Every guild wants a place to call home! And I personally feel that the guild halls are too insanely massive – unless, of course, they are brimming with members who hang out there regularly. Again, small guilds need smaller places. I want a hobbit hole. Or maybe a little old-Ascalon keep.
(Guild Wars 1 guild hall vendor quote: “Truly, what guild can call itself a guild without an island of its own? Come with me. I can take you on a tour of each island, and you can choose which you like the best.”)
Let me clarify, because I think you missed it.
Your guilds cap would be lowered to the lowest tier that it can support.
Meaning that if your guild is at capacity there is no change, if you are in a guild with 5 people but for some reason raised your cap to 500 people it would be lowered to the lowest tier, 50 people.
More examples:
Guild of 10 people, with a cap of 200, cap lowered to 50.
Guild of 55 people cap of 100, cap is unchanged
guild of 120 people cap of 500, cap is lowered to 200.How costs are adjusted, there are 6 tiers of guilds. Cost is adjusted based on your cap after your cap is lowered to the appropriate amount.
So a Tier 1 guild (50 member cap) has to pay 1/6th of the cost of an upgrade to get it. Favor and the time gate Aetherium costs stay the same no matter what tier your guild is.Due to this time gate, large guilds are still better off just paying for each upgrade. Especially when you consider for a 500 member guild, even for the most expensive upgrades you are looking at each member contributing 1-3 items per upgrade.
Compared to a small guild that has to pay 500, 1500 items per upgrade.
If you want when a guild increases its cap you can increase the fee to do that.
So a big guild has to pay more for exactly the same just because they are bigger. That’s seems extremely unfair.
If it comes to helping smaller guilds, what they could do is lower the required levels for upgrades. This allows guilds to focus on one part of the guild-hall (like the arena, or the war-room or the workshop. They make a choice what is more important for them and then go for those elements while bigger guilds go for everything.
That is pretty much the only thing I would change, other than that I think Guild-halls are fine for bigger and smaller guilds.
There is also a flaw in the following reasoning.
“specially when you consider for a 500 member guild, even for the most expensive upgrades you are looking at each member contributing 1-3 items per upgrade.”
Many bigger guilds basically have a strong core of players and those donate a lot.
But many of the other members are less involved, donate less, are less active in chat and so on. While with smaller guilds a higher percentage tents to be strongly involved.
Sure for a 500 man guild that group of core players is still around 30 up towards 60 so not comparable with a small guild of 15 people. However you can also not just make the sum of required mats divided by the number of members. The more members, the less true this is.
So many agenda-specific definitions of ‘MMO’ around here, so many people playing semantic games to try to support their own view about what an MMO is and isn’t.
The words mean one thing, and one thing only .. MASSIVELY simply means large-scale, MULTIPLAYER means more than one person is in the world at the same time ONLINE is frankly redundant since for two players to co-exist some form on ‘networking’ in the general sense has to exist.
One last thing .. the G in MMORPG, DOESN’T stand for GROUP, some people in this thread need to learn that. World events are entirely what an MMORPG is, entirely doable without being forced to ‘group up’.
Yes and you can still do that in game you just cant have said guild hall or raiding since it demands more people then you are willing to have around you.
I dont go around moaning that I cant go in the carpool lane or use family parking spaces at supermarkets, when Im the only one in my family.
I adapt to how it is and maybe so should you?Except, It’s only how it is because they just changed it 3 1/2 years into a game I loved. Do you think I’d be here if this has always been the focus or “how it is?” Nope. And I likely wouldn’t be playing this game at all.
Again, since you clearly don’t understand, I am here in these forums because the changes they made to the game just annihilated the primary reasons I chose to give them my time and give them my money. I may adapt to some of those changes in time, but right now, I’m peeved and I’ll be here peeving on about it until I’m heard by people who actually can make a difference.
But… they have family spaces at the supermarket?! What paradise do you live in?!
oh just little old sweden, similar to handicap spaces but for families of i think 3+, bigger so the kids dont push the car door into the car next to your space and close to store so you dont have to walk far with a baby stroller
stockholm I bet, because here up north we do not have those
I always see the “make the Guild Hall Upgrades scale with the number of members the guild has” FIX. What can stop me from kicking all my guild members,get the mats i need from them,get the upgrade and then invite them again…?!
It might be hard for small guilds to do stuff…but as many people said if you create a guild and you are 2-3 members…let’s be honest,how can you expect to do any content with that guild?
I am a guild leader since 14 november 2013 we had many members now we don’t …let’s say 10-15 daily online members,that is a small guild,yet we don’t complain about the upgrades and we work hard to get our amazing guild hall in a nice shape.
We got all the buildings (tents for now) available and many of the upgrades.
And we are working constantly on it.They could base it on the max guild roster size. You know the guy you gotta pay to increase your guild member cap? That. If your are a first level guild with the lowest member cap your upgrades are cheaper. The higher your member cap the more you pay. Anet can reset all guilds member caps to the lowest possible for their guild and refund the cost to the guild leader as a one time courtesy.
Hm… three things that I foresee this would affect:
1) if the guild’s cap was cut, the guild members would also have to be cut (temporarily). Building up a lost build roster could cause havoc. All those previously happy people would come to the forum and flame us.
2) big guilds who have already farmed everything and worked very hard would suddenly find that their resources were spent on nothing. More flamers.
3) guilds that want to be big wouldn’t want to have to pay tons simply to upgrade things that small guilds can upgrade for cheap. They would keep the roster empty or at the lowest cap until all the upgrades have been bought, and then bring people back. All the stranded members would understand the advantage and would donate to their guild to progress it. The same issue would still stand, because those guilds would have access to so many resources/income streams that smaller guilds don’t.But something that would make sense: adding small guild halls for small guilds. Services could be smaller (except WvW buffs) and more affordable for small guilds. Every guild wants a place to call home! And I personally feel that the guild halls are too insanely massive – unless, of course, they are brimming with members who hang out there regularly. Again, small guilds need smaller places. I want a hobbit hole. Or maybe a little old-Ascalon keep.
(Guild Wars 1 guild hall vendor quote: “Truly, what guild can call itself a guild without an island of its own? Come with me. I can take you on a tour of each island, and you can choose which you like the best.”)
Let me clarify, because I think you missed it.
Your guilds cap would be lowered to the lowest tier that it can support.
Meaning that if your guild is at capacity there is no change, if you are in a guild with 5 people but for some reason raised your cap to 500 people it would be lowered to the lowest tier, 50 people.
More examples:
Guild of 10 people, with a cap of 200, cap lowered to 50.
Guild of 55 people cap of 100, cap is unchanged
guild of 120 people cap of 500, cap is lowered to 200.How costs are adjusted, there are 6 tiers of guilds. Cost is adjusted based on your cap after your cap is lowered to the appropriate amount.
So a Tier 1 guild (50 member cap) has to pay 1/6th of the cost of an upgrade to get it. Favor and the time gate Aetherium costs stay the same no matter what tier your guild is.Due to this time gate, large guilds are still better off just paying for each upgrade. Especially when you consider for a 500 member guild, even for the most expensive upgrades you are looking at each member contributing 1-3 items per upgrade.
Compared to a small guild that has to pay 500, 1500 items per upgrade.
If you want when a guild increases its cap you can increase the fee to do that.
So a big guild has to pay more for exactly the same just because they are bigger. That’s seems extremely unfair.
And its totally ok that smaller guilds currently have to pay way more per player?
I am not against smaller guilds having to spend a bit more effort per person, but the current effort required to earn what we previously earned is way too kitten high.
Delarme
Apathy Inc [Ai]
Apathy Inc [Ai]
And its totally ok that smaller guilds currently have to pay way more per player?
There is a difference between having to do something and choosing to do it.
the current effort required to earn what we previously earned is way too kitten high.
Cannot disagree.
So many agenda-specific definitions of ‘MMO’ around here, so many people playing semantic games to try to support their own view about what an MMO is and isn’t.
The words mean one thing, and one thing only .. MASSIVELY simply means large-scale, MULTIPLAYER means more than one person is in the world at the same time ONLINE is frankly redundant since for two players to co-exist some form on ‘networking’ in the general sense has to exist.
One last thing .. the G in MMORPG, DOESN’T stand for GROUP, some people in this thread need to learn that. World events are entirely what an MMORPG is, entirely doable without being forced to ‘group up’.
Curiously, not quite. “Massively” is an adverb and is only a modifier for “multiplayer”, which means it is “very multiplayer” (in other words, it is easy and/or common to join up with someone else playing the game). Whether or not that is how it is meant or used, that’s what it means. “Online” itself isn’t redundant, as you could be hosting a game over LAN if you are playing multiplayer. You can even play some multiplayer games on the same device/console/computer.
I’m not really sure what you are saying in your last paragraph. You indicate that grouping isn’t necessary, and then mention world events (which generally indicates events that many people will need to participate in)… what exactly do you mean?
If you’re simply stating that people shouldn’t have to group up to play an MMO, I agree to a certain extent. It’s still good to have events and bosses that require the strength of a group to overcome. But it’s generally tricky to collect a group of people who will always want to travel in a pack with singular purpose, so a lot of the core gameplay needs to be soloable. This was dealt with using a different method for Guild Wars 2 than in Guild Wars 1; in GW1 you were able to put together a squad of NPCs to follow you around, but in GW2, mobs were scaled down to ones, and events scale depending on the number of people in the area.
But I believe I digress… it’s true that a lot of people construct their own ideas of what MMOs are, but at the same time, it’s entirely possible that developers are feeding them those ideas. The problem is that while the term exists, development may not necessarily adhere to terminology. Sometimes, terminology is simply marketing.
Been there, punned that.
Ehmry Bay Guardian
Ehmry Bay Guardian
I’m genuinely getting more and more baffled by the complaints on this forum.
You can’t expect content to be balanced around 2-3 person guilds. That doesn’t even qualify as a full party!
The game type should clue you in… Massivley-Multiplayer-Online.
If you can’t stand the rest of the community to thebpointbyou have hamstring your enjoyment of the game… Well, that’s your issue and not Anets.
And for the love of Dhuum. Does ever single tiny tangential complaint need a new thread?! This forum is already hard enough to navigate without “I’m quitting HOT because X” thread number 9000.
You should all start an anti hot support group guild, then you will have plenty of people to get a guild hall.
/rant
I’m only here to point out a huge flaw you and SO MANY OTHERS have when they say MMO.
Yes it does mean massively multiplayer online. That is, however, the only part of the definition you got correct…the words, missed the meaning by a mile.
MMO was tagged originally for games (and still is by the industry) for any game in which you can log in and play on the same server as other players in a persistant world. That is it, MMO does not and has never meant you had to be in a group. This is a farce that people on forums have used as a reason to dismiss a style of gameplay they don’t like, or don’t think should be rewarded even a fraction as well as other styles.
This is also a mindset that is a hold-over from EQ style early MMOs…that you needed a group to do anything, including just wandering around high level zones. Antiquated thinking that essentially says “I don’t care that you have a life and limited time, find a group or GTFO” needs to be disposed of.
I’m genuinely getting more and more baffled by the complaints on this forum.
You can’t expect content to be balanced around 2-3 person guilds. That doesn’t even qualify as a full party!
The game type should clue you in… Massivley-Multiplayer-Online.
If you can’t stand the rest of the community to thebpointbyou have hamstring your enjoyment of the game… Well, that’s your issue and not Anets.
And for the love of Dhuum. Does ever single tiny tangential complaint need a new thread?! This forum is already hard enough to navigate without “I’m quitting HOT because X” thread number 9000.
You should all start an anti hot support group guild, then you will have plenty of people to get a guild hall.
/rant
I’m only here to point out a huge flaw you and SO MANY OTHERS have when they say MMO.
Yes it does mean massively multiplayer online. That is, however, the only part of the definition you got correct…the words, missed the meaning by a mile.
MMO was tagged originally for games (and still is by the industry) for any game in which you can log in and play on the same server as other players in a persistant world. That is it, MMO does not and has never meant you had to be in a group. This is a farce that people on forums have used as a reason to dismiss a style of gameplay they don’t like, or don’t think should be rewarded even a fraction as well as other styles.This is also a mindset that is a hold-over from EQ style early MMOs…that you needed a group to do anything, including just wandering around high level zones. Antiquated thinking that essentially says “I don’t care that you have a life and limited time, find a group or GTFO” needs to be disposed of.
And neither does an MMO imply that everything should be able to be completed solo/co-op. Fractals/dungeons/raids force you to play with other people, and you hardly see anyone complaining about them.
Now I’m not here to bash on the OP and say that it should never happen, as I would like to see small guilds and large guilds be catered to. But ANet is in a difficult spot, to come up with a system that large guilds can’t abuse.
(edited by ZachAttack.3957)
And neither does an MMO imply that everything should be able to be completed solo/co-op. Fractals/dungeons/raids force you to play with other people, and you hardly see anyone complaining about them.
Uh… I’ve seen quite a lot of people who are annoyed at dungeons/fractals because they get kicked out by groups that only want players experienced at the specific run. It’s possible that they don’t complain much these days because they’ve simply given up on that content.
And it’s funny that you mentioned raids, because there have been nonstop complaints about how raids were only for “elite” players and how most people wouldn’t be able to play them because “only guilds and specific builds will be accepted”. I’ve yet to hear how that’s turned out, but there were definitely enough complaints about it.
Been there, punned that.
Ehmry Bay Guardian
Ehmry Bay Guardian
And neither does an MMO imply that everything should be able to be completed solo/co-op. Fractals/dungeons/raids force you to play with other people, and you hardly see anyone complaining about them.
Uh… I’ve seen quite a lot of people who are annoyed at dungeons/fractals because they get kicked out by groups that only want players experienced at the specific run. It’s possible that they don’t complain much these days because they’ve simply given up on that content.
And it’s funny that you mentioned raids, because there have been nonstop complaints about how raids were only for “elite” players and how most people wouldn’t be able to play them because “only guilds and specific builds will be accepted”. I’ve yet to hear how that’s turned out, but there were definitely enough complaints about it.
I don’t know man… That’s weird, the stuff you mentioned about fractals. I’ve been in about 200 fractal runs since HoT (1-50 mind you, mainly on the 21-50 end) and I’ve only gotten kicked once (bunch of idiots who turned a casual comment into hell), and I’ve only had people check my AR once as well. Other than that, they seem fine.
Keep in mind that I was only referring to people not complaining about having to group for that content- not individual complaints about certain aspects of the three.
Yes and you can still do that in game you just cant have said guild hall or raiding since it demands more people then you are willing to have around you.
I dont go around moaning that I cant go in the carpool lane or use family parking spaces at supermarkets, when Im the only one in my family.
I adapt to how it is and maybe so should you?Except, It’s only how it is because they just changed it 3 1/2 years into a game I loved. Do you think I’d be here if this has always been the focus or “how it is?” Nope. And I likely wouldn’t be playing this game at all.
Again, since you clearly don’t understand, I am here in these forums because the changes they made to the game just annihilated the primary reasons I chose to give them my time and give them my money. I may adapt to some of those changes in time, but right now, I’m peeved and I’ll be here peeving on about it until I’m heard by people who actually can make a difference.
But… they have family spaces at the supermarket?! What paradise do you live in?!
oh just little old sweden, similar to handicap spaces but for families of i think 3+, bigger so the kids dont push the car door into the car next to your space and close to store so you dont have to walk far with a baby stroller
stockholm I bet, because here up north we do not have those
actualy borlänge about 50k people so not a big town either
And neither does an MMO imply that everything should be able to be completed solo/co-op. Fractals/dungeons/raids force you to play with other people, and you hardly see anyone complaining about them.
Uh… I’ve seen quite a lot of people who are annoyed at dungeons/fractals because they get kicked out by groups that only want players experienced at the specific run. It’s possible that they don’t complain much these days because they’ve simply given up on that content.
And it’s funny that you mentioned raids, because there have been nonstop complaints about how raids were only for “elite” players and how most people wouldn’t be able to play them because “only guilds and specific builds will be accepted”. I’ve yet to hear how that’s turned out, but there were definitely enough complaints about it.
I don’t know man… That’s weird, the stuff you mentioned about fractals. I’ve been in about 200 fractal runs since HoT (1-50 mind you, mainly on the 21-50 end) and I’ve only gotten kicked once (bunch of idiots who turned a casual comment into hell), and I’ve only had people check my AR once as well. Other than that, they seem fine.
Keep in mind that I was only referring to people not complaining about having to group for that content- not individual complaints about certain aspects of the three.
Hmm, okay, fair enough. I mistyped when I included fractals, as I’ve only touched those once or twice ever – I’ve mainly gone dungeoneering. You won’t catch that many complaints about grouping for those anymore, as the chief complaint now is that dungeons simply aren’t worth it now.
Been there, punned that.
Ehmry Bay Guardian
Ehmry Bay Guardian
(edited by Swift.1930)
And its totally ok that smaller guilds currently have to pay way more per player?
I am not against smaller guilds having to spend a bit more effort per person, but the current effort required to earn what we previously earned is way too kitten high.
I don’t think they understand the sheer number of hours it would take for 5 people to grind out all the mats required… To people in big guilds, this seems so trivial because their personal contribution is so low… even the highest contributors in big guilds have it incredibly easy. Being able to see what it’s like to be the primary contributor out of 5 or so is completely out of their realm of understanding.
Some of the mats are easy, but others are simply insane for small guilds to gather. It would be better if we could pick the end product we want without having to go through however many middle steps to get there and the actual guild levels required were halved. But as it is, there’s not enough picking and choosing and too many difficult mats in between important guild hall benefits.
I know it’s hard for a person to understand the plight of a group they’re not part of. But I’d appreciate it if they (especially people who have any power to make changes) would try.
call of duty is also an MMO, MMOFPS
I always see the “make the Guild Hall Upgrades scale with the number of members the guild has” FIX. What can stop me from kicking all my guild members,get the mats i need from them,get the upgrade and then invite them again…?!
It might be hard for small guilds to do stuff…but as many people said if you create a guild and you are 2-3 members…let’s be honest,how can you expect to do any content with that guild?
I am a guild leader since 14 november 2013 we had many members now we don’t …let’s say 10-15 daily online members,that is a small guild,yet we don’t complain about the upgrades and we work hard to get our amazing guild hall in a nice shape.
We got all the buildings (tents for now) available and many of the upgrades.
And we are working constantly on it.They could base it on the max guild roster size. You know the guy you gotta pay to increase your guild member cap? That. If your are a first level guild with the lowest member cap your upgrades are cheaper. The higher your member cap the more you pay. Anet can reset all guilds member caps to the lowest possible for their guild and refund the cost to the guild leader as a one time courtesy.
Hm… three things that I foresee this would affect:
1) if the guild’s cap was cut, the guild members would also have to be cut (temporarily). Building up a lost build roster could cause havoc. All those previously happy people would come to the forum and flame us.
2) big guilds who have already farmed everything and worked very hard would suddenly find that their resources were spent on nothing. More flamers.
3) guilds that want to be big wouldn’t want to have to pay tons simply to upgrade things that small guilds can upgrade for cheap. They would keep the roster empty or at the lowest cap until all the upgrades have been bought, and then bring people back. All the stranded members would understand the advantage and would donate to their guild to progress it. The same issue would still stand, because those guilds would have access to so many resources/income streams that smaller guilds don’t.But something that would make sense: adding small guild halls for small guilds. Services could be smaller (except WvW buffs) and more affordable for small guilds. Every guild wants a place to call home! And I personally feel that the guild halls are too insanely massive – unless, of course, they are brimming with members who hang out there regularly. Again, small guilds need smaller places. I want a hobbit hole. Or maybe a little old-Ascalon keep.
(Guild Wars 1 guild hall vendor quote: “Truly, what guild can call itself a guild without an island of its own? Come with me. I can take you on a tour of each island, and you can choose which you like the best.”)
Let me clarify, because I think you missed it.
Your guilds cap would be lowered to the lowest tier that it can support.
Meaning that if your guild is at capacity there is no change, if you are in a guild with 5 people but for some reason raised your cap to 500 people it would be lowered to the lowest tier, 50 people.
More examples:
Guild of 10 people, with a cap of 200, cap lowered to 50.
Guild of 55 people cap of 100, cap is unchanged
guild of 120 people cap of 500, cap is lowered to 200.How costs are adjusted, there are 6 tiers of guilds. Cost is adjusted based on your cap after your cap is lowered to the appropriate amount.
So a Tier 1 guild (50 member cap) has to pay 1/6th of the cost of an upgrade to get it. Favor and the time gate Aetherium costs stay the same no matter what tier your guild is.Due to this time gate, large guilds are still better off just paying for each upgrade. Especially when you consider for a 500 member guild, even for the most expensive upgrades you are looking at each member contributing 1-3 items per upgrade.
Compared to a small guild that has to pay 500, 1500 items per upgrade.
If you want when a guild increases its cap you can increase the fee to do that.
So a big guild has to pay more for exactly the same just because they are bigger. That’s seems extremely unfair.
And its totally ok that smaller guilds currently have to pay way more per player?
I am not against smaller guilds having to spend a bit more effort per person, but the current effort required to earn what we previously earned is way too kitten high.
No, they do not have to pay way more per player. Imho you are looking at it wrongly.
A big company needs a bigger building with more facilities. A smaller company needs a smaller building with less facilities.
As a smaller guild you might not want to try to get to level 40 and get the guild-expansion. You also might not want to get the Warroom, the Workshop, the Tavern and the Arena all fully upgraded but you might only want to go for the Warroom, or only for the Workshop of only those two (Depending on the size and the preferences). Or maybe you want to go for them all but not get them all completely upgraded.
That should be your goal as a smaller guild, just as a smaller company go’s for a smaller building with less facilities. The cost per member would then be the same.
The problem is, you basically are the small company but want the biggest building, with all possible facilities and then complain that it’s too expensive.
About losing what you had, I agree that that is sort of bad. I can understand it, but I agree it’s not ideal.
(edited by Devata.6589)
I agree with what your concerns are Devata. I think it is absolutely not wrong for you to feel that more can be done to cater for the various kinds of players that populate the game we all enjoy. I do agree that this new guild system discounted those that prefer to play in a smaller knit social group. The key issue is that the previous guild system at least gave an equally relevant benefit to whichever numbers it accomodated for. Now for that to be taken away, there has to be a way to scale down the guild to help smaller groups to obtain perks of having a guild that is relevant to them (or even to a one person guild). There needs to be more thought put into what is relevant for each group (if you consider facilitating the eventual progression to a larger group being the endpoint) then features need to be functional incentives.
call of duty is also an MMO, MMOFPS
If you consider 64 massive, sure.
call of duty is also an MMO, MMOFPS
If you consider 64 massive, sure.
how many servers are there? in the hundreds. say 200.
200×64?
no clue how many servers there are but it gets more and more with each server. same for guild wars or did you think there is 7 million people online at the same time?
No, they do not have to pay way more per player. Imho you are looking at it wrongly.
A big company needs a bigger building with more facilities. A smaller company needs a smaller building with less facilities.
As a smaller guild you might not want to try to get to level 40 and get the guild-expansion. You also might not want to get the Warroom, the Workshop, the Tavern and the Arena all fully upgraded but you might only want to go for the Warroom, or only for the Workshop of only those two (Depending on the size and the preferences). Or maybe you want to go for them all but not get them all completely upgraded.
That should be your goal as a smaller guild, just as a smaller company go’s for a smaller building with less facilities. The cost per member would then be the same.
The problem is, you basically are the small company but want the biggest building, with all possible facilities and then complain that it’s too expensive.
About losing what you had, I agree that that is sort of bad. I can understand it, but I agree it’s not ideal.
Oh, we absolutely DO have to pay more per player – this isn’t even arguable.
Guilds are NOT companies (or people). The output is not different. We’re not making cars here. This analogy is among the worst I’ve heard.
There are X available benefits, including a weaponsmith, for instance, that’s only available after guild level 40 and the largest mat wall of all. To say only Big guilds should have this and other skin vendors is just asinine. Especially considering many big guild members put in like… NOTHING. Seriously. I stand to deposit a minimum of 300 shovels, all the ascended mats, most of the mystic coins, most of everything else… and according to you, I should have less access than some knob who simply joined a big guild and contributed nothing or next-to nothing. LOL. Hilarious. Run along now…
No, they do not have to pay way more per player. Imho you are looking at it wrongly.
A big company needs a bigger building with more facilities. A smaller company needs a smaller building with less facilities.
As a smaller guild you might not want to try to get to level 40 and get the guild-expansion. You also might not want to get the Warroom, the Workshop, the Tavern and the Arena all fully upgraded but you might only want to go for the Warroom, or only for the Workshop of only those two (Depending on the size and the preferences). Or maybe you want to go for them all but not get them all completely upgraded.
That should be your goal as a smaller guild, just as a smaller company go’s for a smaller building with less facilities. The cost per member would then be the same.
The problem is, you basically are the small company but want the biggest building, with all possible facilities and then complain that it’s too expensive.
About losing what you had, I agree that that is sort of bad. I can understand it, but I agree it’s not ideal.
Oh, we absolutely DO have to pay more per player – this isn’t even arguable.
Guilds are NOT companies (or people). The output is not different. We’re not making cars here. This analogy is among the worst I’ve heard.
There are X available benefits, including a weaponsmith, for instance, that’s only available after guild level 40 and the largest mat wall of all. To say only Big guilds should have this and other skin vendors is just asinine. Especially considering many big guild members put in like… NOTHING. Seriously. I stand to deposit a minimum of 300 shovels, all the ascended mats, most of the mystic coins, most of everything else… and according to you, I should have less access than some knob who simply joined a big guild and contributed nothing or next-to nothing. LOL. Hilarious. Run along now…
Actually I thought his analogy made a lot of sense. A small group of people will never be able to make enough money (and in GW2’s case, mats) as a large group of people can, and prices don’t fall to pity the small group. Therefore, the small group has to compromise. That’s how it is in real life, and right now that’s the state that guild halls are in. The main issue I see is guilds having everything taken away that they had before. And by the way there’s no need to be a “knob” to him after he answered respectfully.
Regardless of how it is, it’s not the way it should be. Games aren’t supposed to mimic real life… unless they’re a Sims game and even then (in real life, you don’t take a poop on the floor if the bathroom door is shut…). But, if you’re going for real life-corporate analogies… the losers who just work for the man don’t get all the benefits the man does, so… there goes that.
I didn’t mean to be a knob… I guess I just get testy when people clearly don’t even try to see my point of view. And the run along now thing is something I picked up from a movie like a decade ago and I admittedly overuse it because it really suits my attitude… Apologies!
(edited by Dejavu.2349)
call of duty is also an MMO, MMOFPS
If you consider 64 massive, sure.
how many servers are there? in the hundreds. say 200.
200×64?
no clue how many servers there are but it gets more and more with each server. same for guild wars or did you think there is 7 million people online at the same time?
Except that one of the features of an MMO is a persistent instance that people can enter/leave at any time and then return to at any time. CoD? Nope. All instances last as long as a match and then dissolve. Planetside 2? That’s an MMOFPS.
Been there, punned that.
Ehmry Bay Guardian
Ehmry Bay Guardian
M assively
M ultiplayer
O nline
No, “P,” for persistent.
Perhaps there should be a new term MMPO (Massively Multiplayer Persistent Online…"
Regardless of how it is, it’s not the way it should be. Games aren’t supposed to mimic real life… unless they’re a Sims game and even then (in real life, you don’t take a poop on the floor if the bathroom door is shut…). But, if you’re going for real life-corporate analogies… the losers who just work for the man don’t get all the benefits the man does, so… there goes that.
I didn’t mean to be a knob… I guess I just get testy when people clearly don’t even try to see my point of view. And the run along now thing is something I picked up from a movie like a decade ago and I admittedly overuse it because it really suits my attitude… Apologies!
Certainly games aren’t going to completely mimic real life (although sometimes MMOs come close). Your “don’t get all the benefits the man does” line suits the way some guilds are set up, though, with restrictions per rank that only favor the top… ten, maybe.
But whether the game is mirroring reality or not, it’s in both the players’ and the developers’ best interest when the game provides options that cater to most (if not all) of the active players in a game. A lot of small guilds came over from GW1 (where small guilds can function very well) and have now been pushed to the side. They were Anet’s biggest source of income and loyalty (unless not all big guilds are loaded with AFK players), and now they’ve been stripped of all their earned upgrades – and then have been told to grow or die… =/
Been there, punned that.
Ehmry Bay Guardian
Ehmry Bay Guardian