Guild Wars 2

Ashen.2907:

M assively
M ultiplayer
O nline

No, “P,” for persistent.

Perhaps there should be a new term MMPO (Massively Multiplayer Persistent Online…"

Uh, you may have noticed that I didn’t say persistent was part of the term; I said it was one of the features.

From Wikipedia: A massively multiplayer online game (MMOG or MMO) is a video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously in the same instance (or world). By necessity, they are played over a network, such as the Internet.¹ MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ.

Swift.1930:

Ashen.2907:

M assively
M ultiplayer
O nline

No, “P,” for persistent.

Perhaps there should be a new term MMPO (Massively Multiplayer Persistent Online…"

Uh, you may have noticed that I didn’t say persistent was part of the term; I said it was one of the features.

From Wikipedia: A massively multiplayer online game (MMOG or MMO) is a video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously in the same instance (or world). By necessity, they are played over a network, such as the Internet.¹ MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ.

Emphasis on “MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ.”

Reduced quote tree:

No, they do not have to pay way more per player. Imho you are looking at it wrongly.

A big company needs a bigger building with more facilities. A smaller company needs a smaller building with less facilities.

As a smaller guild you might not want to try to get to level 40 and get the guild-expansion. You also might not want to get the Warroom, the Workshop, the Tavern and the Arena all fully upgraded but you might only want to go for the Warroom, or only for the Workshop of only those two (Depending on the size and the preferences). Or maybe you want to go for them all but not get them all completely upgraded.

That should be your goal as a smaller guild, just as a smaller company go’s for a smaller building with less facilities. The cost per member would then be the same.

The problem is, you basically are the small company but want the biggest building, with all possible facilities and then complain that it’s too expensive.

About losing what you had, I agree that that is sort of bad. I can understand it, but I agree it’s not ideal.

There is no smaller building with less faculties. Us small guilds have to get the big boy workshop, we have to get the big boy arena, we have to get the big boy tavern.

I primarily care about the +5 supply buff at camps. Which is something my guild previously earned and would run every single night in wvw. Why? Because we are a small guild that plays the map strategically. Having an extra 25 supply in my party allows us to do far more than your average individual. Before HOT it was a buff we would run during our wvw time every day. Now its locked behind a frustrating pay-wall, something that was essential to the way we played the game.

There has to be a better solution than the current system. This system as it stands now is a travesty. You may be able to ignore the pain because it doesn’t affect you, but please find some empathy.

Fernling.1729:

Swift.1930:

Ashen.2907:

M assively
M ultiplayer
O nline

No, “P,” for persistent.

Perhaps there should be a new term MMPO (Massively Multiplayer Persistent Online…"

Uh, you may have noticed that I didn’t say persistent was part of the term; I said it was one of the features.

From Wikipedia: A massively multiplayer online game (MMOG or MMO) is a video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously in the same instance (or world). By necessity, they are played over a network, such as the Internet.¹ MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ.

Emphasis on “MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ.”

As in they may have more than one persistent instance. The main examples I could find of that kind of thing was board game MMOs.

ZachAttack.3957:

Runiir.6425:

Valentinus.3412:

I’m genuinely getting more and more baffled by the complaints on this forum.

You can’t expect content to be balanced around 2-3 person guilds. That doesn’t even qualify as a full party!

The game type should clue you in… Massivley-Multiplayer-Online.

If you can’t stand the rest of the community to thebpointbyou have hamstring your enjoyment of the game… Well, that’s your issue and not Anets.

And for the love of Dhuum. Does ever single tiny tangential complaint need a new thread?! This forum is already hard enough to navigate without “I’m quitting HOT because X” thread number 9000.

You should all start an anti hot support group guild, then you will have plenty of people to get a guild hall.

/rant

I’m only here to point out a huge flaw you and SO MANY OTHERS have when they say MMO.
Yes it does mean massively multiplayer online. That is, however, the only part of the definition you got correct…the words, missed the meaning by a mile.
MMO was tagged originally for games (and still is by the industry) for any game in which you can log in and play on the same server as other players in a persistant world. That is it, MMO does not and has never meant you had to be in a group. This is a farce that people on forums have used as a reason to dismiss a style of gameplay they don’t like, or don’t think should be rewarded even a fraction as well as other styles.

This is also a mindset that is a hold-over from EQ style early MMOs…that you needed a group to do anything, including just wandering around high level zones. Antiquated thinking that essentially says “I don’t care that you have a life and limited time, find a group or GTFO” needs to be disposed of.

And neither does an MMO imply that everything should be able to be completed solo/co-op. Fractals/dungeons/raids force you to play with other people, and you hardly see anyone complaining about them.

Now I’m not here to bash on the OP and say that it should never happen, as I would like to see small guilds and large guilds be catered to. But ANet is in a difficult spot, to come up with a system that large guilds can’t abuse.

The best way has already been given but the large guilds balk at it; make it scale with the number of people in the guild. I mean large guilds shouldn’t have any problems with it considering the many many things people belonging to them say to smaller guilds now. Shouldn’t bother a large guild one bit that they have to fork in extra stuff because they have members that aren’t logging in all that often. Shouldn’t bother them one bit that they are working harder to get upgrades smaller guilds are getting for less. As only the total is less, each member is still forking out the same amount per head.

Worried about a guild shedding most of it’s members, upgrading, then inviting everyone back? Easy. Your guild number is based on what it was a month ago, every member you add increases the number…but each person you kick only causes the number to go down if it stays that low for a month (31 days). This means the large guilds, to exploit it, would have to pare down their membership for 31 consecutive days before the price of things drops, then keep everyone out for another set of months when you add in the time gating and build times and the constant checking…a large guild would have to hope their members would be ok with not being a part of the guild for 6+ months before everything could be built. Hand over mats to those in the guild trusting they will be re-invited after the 6+ months needed to fully upgrade everything. That is a long time to trust people on their word. If the large guild caves and invites people then the cost goes up immediately.

This alone prevents exploits as the path to exploit it requires so much trust, and so much time, people won’t be willing to do it. Think about how many people you know willing to sit on the outside of a guild doing things, handing over hundreds and thousands of gold/mats without being able to benefit from it at all?
And remember, it won’t matter if they just don’t rep you, their name on your roster counts against you weather they wear your tag or not.

It does require the cost of things to be so variable that each individual person causes them to grow or shrink regardless of how many people are in a guild. In this way there is no “free” slots where adding a person makes no changes.

Runiir.6425:

ZachAttack.3957:

Runiir.6425:

Valentinus.3412:

I’m genuinely getting more and more baffled by the complaints on this forum.

You can’t expect content to be balanced around 2-3 person guilds. That doesn’t even qualify as a full party!

The game type should clue you in… Massivley-Multiplayer-Online.

If you can’t stand the rest of the community to thebpointbyou have hamstring your enjoyment of the game… Well, that’s your issue and not Anets.

And for the love of Dhuum. Does ever single tiny tangential complaint need a new thread?! This forum is already hard enough to navigate without “I’m quitting HOT because X” thread number 9000.

You should all start an anti hot support group guild, then you will have plenty of people to get a guild hall.

/rant

I’m only here to point out a huge flaw you and SO MANY OTHERS have when they say MMO.
Yes it does mean massively multiplayer online. That is, however, the only part of the definition you got correct…the words, missed the meaning by a mile.
MMO was tagged originally for games (and still is by the industry) for any game in which you can log in and play on the same server as other players in a persistant world. That is it, MMO does not and has never meant you had to be in a group. This is a farce that people on forums have used as a reason to dismiss a style of gameplay they don’t like, or don’t think should be rewarded even a fraction as well as other styles.

This is also a mindset that is a hold-over from EQ style early MMOs…that you needed a group to do anything, including just wandering around high level zones. Antiquated thinking that essentially says “I don’t care that you have a life and limited time, find a group or GTFO” needs to be disposed of.

And neither does an MMO imply that everything should be able to be completed solo/co-op. Fractals/dungeons/raids force you to play with other people, and you hardly see anyone complaining about them.

Now I’m not here to bash on the OP and say that it should never happen, as I would like to see small guilds and large guilds be catered to. But ANet is in a difficult spot, to come up with a system that large guilds can’t abuse.

The best way has already been given but the large guilds balk at it; make it scale with the number of people in the guild. I mean large guilds shouldn’t have any problems with it considering the many many things people belonging to them say to smaller guilds now. Shouldn’t bother a large guild one bit that they have to fork in extra stuff because they have members that aren’t logging in all that often. Shouldn’t bother them one bit that they are working harder to get upgrades smaller guilds are getting for less. As only the total is less, each member is still forking out the same amount per head.

Worried about a guild shedding most of it’s members, upgrading, then inviting everyone back? Easy. Your guild number is based on what it was a month ago, every member you add increases the number…but each person you kick only causes the number to go down if it stays that low for a month (31 days). This means the large guilds, to exploit it, would have to pare down their membership for 31 consecutive days before the price of things drops, then keep everyone out for another set of months when you add in the time gating and build times and the constant checking…a large guild would have to hope their members would be ok with not being a part of the guild for 6+ months before everything could be built. Hand over mats to those in the guild trusting they will be re-invited after the 6+ months needed to fully upgrade everything. That is a long time to trust people on their word. If the large guild caves and invites people then the cost goes up immediately.

This alone prevents exploits as the path to exploit it requires so much trust, and so much time, people won’t be willing to do it. Think about how many people you know willing to sit on the outside of a guild doing things, handing over hundreds and thousands of gold/mats without being able to benefit from it at all?
And remember, it won’t matter if they just don’t rep you, their name on your roster counts against you weather they wear your tag or not.

It does require the cost of things to be so variable that each individual person causes them to grow or shrink regardless of how many people are in a guild. In this way there is no “free” slots where adding a person makes no changes.

Ouch, for a couple of reasons.

You do know there’s a giant exploit for that, right? A big guild can just create an entirely new guild, fully upgrade it with assistance from old members, and then transfer everyone to it.

Also, like others have said, scaling in that way is a really bad design/development choice. Not only does it make no sense logically (why would an impartial NPC sell something for 600 gold to one player and 2 gold to another, or why would a tavern take 90 planks for someone and 9,000,000 for someone else), but it would cause giant divides between established guilds of different sizes. Drama happens in systems where everything is fair – as soon as you make something unfair, drama becomes worse. The community would become a forest fire.

New guild halls of various sizes could solve the situation. A guild would choose its hall based on its goal, its farming ability, and the capacity/utility of the services of each hall size.

There are some passionate people at Anet still but the company as a whole though is no longer the company that I once looked fondly upon.

HoT is looking more like a scam every day; beautiful on the outside but shallow/hollow on the inside. Instead of a game created by passionate gamers, its turned into a corporate money machine designed to squeeze every last penny out of you.

It is no longer my refuge either.

Edit: I’m sorry to lump the good people who still work at Anet in with the people who make the business decisions but you know in your hearts that the game/company is not the same anymore. If you are a gamer at heart, you know exactly what we’re saying because you would feel it too.

Leodon.1564:

There are some passionate people at Anet still but the company as a whole though is no longer the company that I once looked fondly upon.

HoT is looking more like a scam every day; beautiful on the outside but shallow/hollow on the inside. Instead of a game created by passionate gamers, its turned into a corporate money machine designed to squeeze every last penny out of you.

It is no longer my refuge either.

I am fond of using a personal scale for games based upon festivals.

If a company is passionate about their game they will go all out on the minor little details such as festivals. In the first years we had doors and presents that littered the landscape of most of the lower level maps. The main cities were all decorated to the 9’s with whatever the season offered. Since the first few years many things have been removed until we are left with next to nothing in LA to celebrate Halloween 2015.

Yes I understand they had an “Xpac” to release too but at the current rate of decay Tixx may as well take the season off this year.

Devata.6589:

So a big guild has to pay more for exactly the same just because they are bigger. That’s seems extremely unfair.

Why? It would supply the same options as a smaller guild, that’s true, but it would supply them to a larger number of players. To me it seems normal that it would cost more.
If you cook a dinner for 50 people, it requires greater quantities of ingredients than one made for 5 people – even if the dinner in question is exactly the same. The current HoT guild hall system seems to think however, that a dinner for anything less than 500 people just won’t do for any of those groups. Which, when you think about it, is ridiculous.

Swift.1930:

Fernling.1729:

Swift.1930:

Ashen.2907:

M assively
M ultiplayer
O nline

No, “P,” for persistent.

Perhaps there should be a new term MMPO (Massively Multiplayer Persistent Online…"

Uh, you may have noticed that I didn’t say persistent was part of the term; I said it was one of the features.

From Wikipedia: A massively multiplayer online game (MMOG or MMO) is a video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously in the same instance (or world). By necessity, they are played over a network, such as the Internet.¹ MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ.

Emphasis on “MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ.”

As in they may have more than one persistent instance. The main examples I could find of that kind of thing was board game MMOs.

The may have more than one persistent instance is covered by the, “at least,” portion of the article. At least one means one or more. The article’s disclaimer of, “usually,” and, “some games differ,” means that not all MMOs have at least one instance. Not at least one means zero. This is a statement that some MMOs have zero persistent instances.

Swift.1930:

Runiir.6425:

ZachAttack.3957:

Runiir.6425:

Valentinus.3412:

I’m genuinely getting more and more baffled by the complaints on this forum.

You can’t expect content to be balanced around 2-3 person guilds. That doesn’t even qualify as a full party!

The game type should clue you in… Massivley-Multiplayer-Online.

If you can’t stand the rest of the community to thebpointbyou have hamstring your enjoyment of the game… Well, that’s your issue and not Anets.

And for the love of Dhuum. Does ever single tiny tangential complaint need a new thread?! This forum is already hard enough to navigate without “I’m quitting HOT because X” thread number 9000.

You should all start an anti hot support group guild, then you will have plenty of people to get a guild hall.

/rant

I’m only here to point out a huge flaw you and SO MANY OTHERS have when they say MMO.
Yes it does mean massively multiplayer online. That is, however, the only part of the definition you got correct…the words, missed the meaning by a mile.
MMO was tagged originally for games (and still is by the industry) for any game in which you can log in and play on the same server as other players in a persistant world. That is it, MMO does not and has never meant you had to be in a group. This is a farce that people on forums have used as a reason to dismiss a style of gameplay they don’t like, or don’t think should be rewarded even a fraction as well as other styles.

This is also a mindset that is a hold-over from EQ style early MMOs…that you needed a group to do anything, including just wandering around high level zones. Antiquated thinking that essentially says “I don’t care that you have a life and limited time, find a group or GTFO” needs to be disposed of.

And neither does an MMO imply that everything should be able to be completed solo/co-op. Fractals/dungeons/raids force you to play with other people, and you hardly see anyone complaining about them.

Now I’m not here to bash on the OP and say that it should never happen, as I would like to see small guilds and large guilds be catered to. But ANet is in a difficult spot, to come up with a system that large guilds can’t abuse.

The best way has already been given but the large guilds balk at it; make it scale with the number of people in the guild. I mean large guilds shouldn’t have any problems with it considering the many many things people belonging to them say to smaller guilds now. Shouldn’t bother a large guild one bit that they have to fork in extra stuff because they have members that aren’t logging in all that often. Shouldn’t bother them one bit that they are working harder to get upgrades smaller guilds are getting for less. As only the total is less, each member is still forking out the same amount per head.

Worried about a guild shedding most of it’s members, upgrading, then inviting everyone back? Easy. Your guild number is based on what it was a month ago, every member you add increases the number…but each person you kick only causes the number to go down if it stays that low for a month (31 days). This means the large guilds, to exploit it, would have to pare down their membership for 31 consecutive days before the price of things drops, then keep everyone out for another set of months when you add in the time gating and build times and the constant checking…a large guild would have to hope their members would be ok with not being a part of the guild for 6+ months before everything could be built. Hand over mats to those in the guild trusting they will be re-invited after the 6+ months needed to fully upgrade everything. That is a long time to trust people on their word. If the large guild caves and invites people then the cost goes up immediately.

This alone prevents exploits as the path to exploit it requires so much trust, and so much time, people won’t be willing to do it. Think about how many people you know willing to sit on the outside of a guild doing things, handing over hundreds and thousands of gold/mats without being able to benefit from it at all?
And remember, it won’t matter if they just don’t rep you, their name on your roster counts against you weather they wear your tag or not.

It does require the cost of things to be so variable that each individual person causes them to grow or shrink regardless of how many people are in a guild. In this way there is no “free” slots where adding a person makes no changes.

Ouch, for a couple of reasons.

You do know there’s a giant exploit for that, right? A big guild can just create an entirely new guild, fully upgrade it with assistance from old members, and then transfer everyone to it.

Also, like others have said, scaling in that way is a really bad design/development choice. Not only does it make no sense logically (why would an impartial NPC sell something for 600 gold to one player and 2 gold to another, or why would a tavern take 90 planks for someone and 9,000,000 for someone else), but it would cause giant divides between established guilds of different sizes. Drama happens in systems where everything is fair – as soon as you make something unfair, drama becomes worse. The community would become a forest fire.

Once again, to fully upgrade something that is gated by time, something that fi you have everything you need every time the timer is up should put you around the 6 month mark.

So you would be ok if you weren’t in the newly created guild, NOTHING will be done in your current guild. You would be fine with pumping hundreds of mats and gold to people working to build up another guild, getting nothing for it, other than the promise that in 6 months (or more if the time gating is harsher than expected) you will be invited to the completed guild and finally have access to things.

You wouldn’t be able to benefit from a single thing for 6+ months. Your current guild, the supposed large guild that is creating and funding this new offshoot, would be at a total stand still and not be upgrading a single thing. I personally know very few people who would ever be ok with that over such a long period. This isn’t a one month wait, this is 6+ months of never having access to guild upgrades, no proper guild hall, no guild arena access, etc. Think you will be ok with not taking part in a chunk of the expansion? You can’t join another guild, as they will expect you to fork over stuff to help them build as well. Thus you are stuck if you take this route trusting that this new guild won’t have a drama blowout where they break away completely after the large parent guild forked over so much to improve it. 6 months is a long time, seen more than one large guild implode once you split the population like that.

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

So a big guild has to pay more for exactly the same just because they are bigger. That’s seems extremely unfair.

Why? It would supply the same options as a smaller guild, that’s true, but it would supply them to a larger number of players. To me it seems normal that it would cost more.
If you cook a dinner for 50 people, it requires greater quantities of ingredients than one made for 5 people – even if the dinner in question is exactly the same. The current HoT guild hall system seems to think however, that a dinner for anything less than 500 people just won’t do for any of those groups. Which, when you think about it, is ridiculous.

Keeping in mind, of course, that 26 of the 50 might not show up for dinner at all, and 10 of them don’t like what you’ve cooked and make something for themselves.

It doesn’t make sense to build, for instance, a tavern that takes up… uh… let’s say 15 yards x 15 yards, that for one group of people costs 50 planks and for another costs 500,000 planks.

A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

Swift.1930:

A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

Totally agree.

Runiir.6425:

Swift.1930:

Runiir.6425:

ZachAttack.3957:

Runiir.6425:

Valentinus.3412:

I’m genuinely getting more and more baffled by the complaints on this forum.

You can’t expect content to be balanced around 2-3 person guilds. That doesn’t even qualify as a full party!

The game type should clue you in… Massivley-Multiplayer-Online.

If you can’t stand the rest of the community to thebpointbyou have hamstring your enjoyment of the game… Well, that’s your issue and not Anets.

And for the love of Dhuum. Does ever single tiny tangential complaint need a new thread?! This forum is already hard enough to navigate without “I’m quitting HOT because X” thread number 9000.

You should all start an anti hot support group guild, then you will have plenty of people to get a guild hall.

/rant

I’m only here to point out a huge flaw you and SO MANY OTHERS have when they say MMO.
Yes it does mean massively multiplayer online. That is, however, the only part of the definition you got correct…the words, missed the meaning by a mile.
MMO was tagged originally for games (and still is by the industry) for any game in which you can log in and play on the same server as other players in a persistant world. That is it, MMO does not and has never meant you had to be in a group. This is a farce that people on forums have used as a reason to dismiss a style of gameplay they don’t like, or don’t think should be rewarded even a fraction as well as other styles.

This is also a mindset that is a hold-over from EQ style early MMOs…that you needed a group to do anything, including just wandering around high level zones. Antiquated thinking that essentially says “I don’t care that you have a life and limited time, find a group or GTFO” needs to be disposed of.

And neither does an MMO imply that everything should be able to be completed solo/co-op. Fractals/dungeons/raids force you to play with other people, and you hardly see anyone complaining about them.

Now I’m not here to bash on the OP and say that it should never happen, as I would like to see small guilds and large guilds be catered to. But ANet is in a difficult spot, to come up with a system that large guilds can’t abuse.

The best way has already been given but the large guilds balk at it; make it scale with the number of people in the guild. I mean large guilds shouldn’t have any problems with it considering the many many things people belonging to them say to smaller guilds now. Shouldn’t bother a large guild one bit that they have to fork in extra stuff because they have members that aren’t logging in all that often. Shouldn’t bother them one bit that they are working harder to get upgrades smaller guilds are getting for less. As only the total is less, each member is still forking out the same amount per head.

Worried about a guild shedding most of it’s members, upgrading, then inviting everyone back? Easy. Your guild number is based on what it was a month ago, every member you add increases the number…but each person you kick only causes the number to go down if it stays that low for a month (31 days). This means the large guilds, to exploit it, would have to pare down their membership for 31 consecutive days before the price of things drops, then keep everyone out for another set of months when you add in the time gating and build times and the constant checking…a large guild would have to hope their members would be ok with not being a part of the guild for 6+ months before everything could be built. Hand over mats to those in the guild trusting they will be re-invited after the 6+ months needed to fully upgrade everything. That is a long time to trust people on their word. If the large guild caves and invites people then the cost goes up immediately.

This alone prevents exploits as the path to exploit it requires so much trust, and so much time, people won’t be willing to do it. Think about how many people you know willing to sit on the outside of a guild doing things, handing over hundreds and thousands of gold/mats without being able to benefit from it at all?
And remember, it won’t matter if they just don’t rep you, their name on your roster counts against you weather they wear your tag or not.

It does require the cost of things to be so variable that each individual person causes them to grow or shrink regardless of how many people are in a guild. In this way there is no “free” slots where adding a person makes no changes.

Ouch, for a couple of reasons.

You do know there’s a giant exploit for that, right? A big guild can just create an entirely new guild, fully upgrade it with assistance from old members, and then transfer everyone to it.

Also, like others have said, scaling in that way is a really bad design/development choice. Not only does it make no sense logically (why would an impartial NPC sell something for 600 gold to one player and 2 gold to another, or why would a tavern take 90 planks for someone and 9,000,000 for someone else), but it would cause giant divides between established guilds of different sizes. Drama happens in systems where everything is fair – as soon as you make something unfair, drama becomes worse. The community would become a forest fire.

Once again, to fully upgrade something that is gated by time, something that fi you have everything you need every time the timer is up should put you around the 6 month mark.

So you would be ok if you weren’t in the newly created guild, NOTHING will be done in your current guild. You would be fine with pumping hundreds of mats and gold to people working to build up another guild, getting nothing for it, other than the promise that in 6 months (or more if the time gating is harsher than expected) you will be invited to the completed guild and finally have access to things.

You wouldn’t be able to benefit from a single thing for 6+ months. Your current guild, the supposed large guild that is creating and funding this new offshoot, would be at a total stand still and not be upgrading a single thing. I personally know very few people who would ever be ok with that over such a long period. This isn’t a one month wait, this is 6+ months of never having access to guild upgrades, no proper guild hall, no guild arena access, etc. Think you will be ok with not taking part in a chunk of the expansion? You can’t join another guild, as they will expect you to fork over stuff to help them build as well. Thus you are stuck if you take this route trusting that this new guild won’t have a drama blowout where they break away completely after the large parent guild forked over so much to improve it. 6 months is a long time, seen more than one large guild implode once you split the population like that.

As someone who is in a small guild (without upgrades since the reset), I can still say that I’d rather not ruin the game for big guilds at the same time as ruining very simple game logic. Before HoT launched, big guilds already had an advantage over little guilds in that they could gain favor quicker through events/missions/bounties/playing together/etc. But small guilds could still upgrade at a reasonable and inexpensive rate. What you’re suggesting is pretty much guaranteed to cause huge dramas everywhere (yes, big guilds have the biggest voices), and Anet is not about to choose something that turns their game into a rampage/ghost town.

I’m looking forward to the addition of small and medium guild halls instead.

Runiir.6425:

Swift.1930:

Runiir.6425:

ZachAttack.3957:

Runiir.6425:

Valentinus.3412:

I’m genuinely getting more and more baffled by the complaints on this forum.

You can’t expect content to be balanced around 2-3 person guilds. That doesn’t even qualify as a full party!

The game type should clue you in… Massivley-Multiplayer-Online.

If you can’t stand the rest of the community to thebpointbyou have hamstring your enjoyment of the game… Well, that’s your issue and not Anets.

And for the love of Dhuum. Does ever single tiny tangential complaint need a new thread?! This forum is already hard enough to navigate without “I’m quitting HOT because X” thread number 9000.

You should all start an anti hot support group guild, then you will have plenty of people to get a guild hall.

/rant

I’m only here to point out a huge flaw you and SO MANY OTHERS have when they say MMO.
Yes it does mean massively multiplayer online. That is, however, the only part of the definition you got correct…the words, missed the meaning by a mile.
MMO was tagged originally for games (and still is by the industry) for any game in which you can log in and play on the same server as other players in a persistant world. That is it, MMO does not and has never meant you had to be in a group. This is a farce that people on forums have used as a reason to dismiss a style of gameplay they don’t like, or don’t think should be rewarded even a fraction as well as other styles.

This is also a mindset that is a hold-over from EQ style early MMOs…that you needed a group to do anything, including just wandering around high level zones. Antiquated thinking that essentially says “I don’t care that you have a life and limited time, find a group or GTFO” needs to be disposed of.

And neither does an MMO imply that everything should be able to be completed solo/co-op. Fractals/dungeons/raids force you to play with other people, and you hardly see anyone complaining about them.

Now I’m not here to bash on the OP and say that it should never happen, as I would like to see small guilds and large guilds be catered to. But ANet is in a difficult spot, to come up with a system that large guilds can’t abuse.

The best way has already been given but the large guilds balk at it; make it scale with the number of people in the guild. I mean large guilds shouldn’t have any problems with it considering the many many things people belonging to them say to smaller guilds now. Shouldn’t bother a large guild one bit that they have to fork in extra stuff because they have members that aren’t logging in all that often. Shouldn’t bother them one bit that they are working harder to get upgrades smaller guilds are getting for less. As only the total is less, each member is still forking out the same amount per head.

Worried about a guild shedding most of it’s members, upgrading, then inviting everyone back? Easy. Your guild number is based on what it was a month ago, every member you add increases the number…but each person you kick only causes the number to go down if it stays that low for a month (31 days). This means the large guilds, to exploit it, would have to pare down their membership for 31 consecutive days before the price of things drops, then keep everyone out for another set of months when you add in the time gating and build times and the constant checking…a large guild would have to hope their members would be ok with not being a part of the guild for 6+ months before everything could be built. Hand over mats to those in the guild trusting they will be re-invited after the 6+ months needed to fully upgrade everything. That is a long time to trust people on their word. If the large guild caves and invites people then the cost goes up immediately.

This alone prevents exploits as the path to exploit it requires so much trust, and so much time, people won’t be willing to do it. Think about how many people you know willing to sit on the outside of a guild doing things, handing over hundreds and thousands of gold/mats without being able to benefit from it at all?
And remember, it won’t matter if they just don’t rep you, their name on your roster counts against you weather they wear your tag or not.

It does require the cost of things to be so variable that each individual person causes them to grow or shrink regardless of how many people are in a guild. In this way there is no “free” slots where adding a person makes no changes.

Ouch, for a couple of reasons.

You do know there’s a giant exploit for that, right? A big guild can just create an entirely new guild, fully upgrade it with assistance from old members, and then transfer everyone to it.

Also, like others have said, scaling in that way is a really bad design/development choice. Not only does it make no sense logically (why would an impartial NPC sell something for 600 gold to one player and 2 gold to another, or why would a tavern take 90 planks for someone and 9,000,000 for someone else), but it would cause giant divides between established guilds of different sizes. Drama happens in systems where everything is fair – as soon as you make something unfair, drama becomes worse. The community would become a forest fire.

Once again, to fully upgrade something that is gated by time, something that fi you have everything you need every time the timer is up should put you around the 6 month mark.

So you would be ok if you weren’t in the newly created guild, NOTHING will be done in your current guild. You would be fine with pumping hundreds of mats and gold to people working to build up another guild, getting nothing for it, other than the promise that in 6 months (or more if the time gating is harsher than expected) you will be invited to the completed guild and finally have access to things.

You wouldn’t be able to benefit from a single thing for 6+ months. Your current guild, the supposed large guild that is creating and funding this new offshoot, would be at a total stand still and not be upgrading a single thing. I personally know very few people who would ever be ok with that over such a long period. This isn’t a one month wait, this is 6+ months of never having access to guild upgrades, no proper guild hall, no guild arena access, etc. Think you will be ok with not taking part in a chunk of the expansion? You can’t join another guild, as they will expect you to fork over stuff to help them build as well. Thus you are stuck if you take this route trusting that this new guild won’t have a drama blowout where they break away completely after the large parent guild forked over so much to improve it. 6 months is a long time, seen more than one large guild implode once you split the population like that.

I wouldn’t base it on actual guild count, but your cap. I made a post to that effect a couple pages back. That makes for clearly defined lines between the tiers, instead of its 210 one day, and invite one guy and its suddenly 218.

If you hate dealing with other people, why are you on hte forums?

Draygo.9473:

I wouldn’t base it on actual guild count, but your cap. I made a post to that effect a couple pages back. That makes for clearly defined lines between the tiers, instead of its 210 one day, and invite one guy and its suddenly 218.

Still promotes tension and frustration between guilds, unfortunately. The main thing is that most people would still be looking for the most cost-effective way, which means a lot of new empty guilds for (six months?) that will suddenly become full of people when fully-upgraded. Guilds who actually put in the farming and effort for their personal halls will likely become either a laughing stock or put high taxes on new recruits if they want to access services (elitist).

Edit: Upon further consideration, it would also encourage sales of guild halls. If someone sits by himself upgrading an empty guild for six months and then sells it to the highest bidder, he could make a pretty tidy sum of gold. I’m not convinced that’s something this game needs…

Good question! Bye!

Kidding… I’m not being forced to be here. I made a decision to come here to get my voice heard… I’ve played enough MMO’s to know the only way to get heard is to QQ the loudest! And I’m only here when I’m bored… which has been more often sine HoT came out than usual

Thanks for the Bump!

Dejavu.2349:

Devata.6589:

No, they do not have to pay way more per player. Imho you are looking at it wrongly.

A big company needs a bigger building with more facilities. A smaller company needs a smaller building with less facilities.

As a smaller guild you might not want to try to get to level 40 and get the guild-expansion. You also might not want to get the Warroom, the Workshop, the Tavern and the Arena all fully upgraded but you might only want to go for the Warroom, or only for the Workshop of only those two (Depending on the size and the preferences). Or maybe you want to go for them all but not get them all completely upgraded.

That should be your goal as a smaller guild, just as a smaller company go’s for a smaller building with less facilities. The cost per member would then be the same.

The problem is, you basically are the small company but want the biggest building, with all possible facilities and then complain that it’s too expensive.

About losing what you had, I agree that that is sort of bad. I can understand it, but I agree it’s not ideal.

Oh, we absolutely DO have to pay more per player – this isn’t even arguable.

Guilds are NOT companies (or people). The output is not different. We’re not making cars here. This analogy is among the worst I’ve heard.

There are X available benefits, including a weaponsmith, for instance, that’s only available after guild level 40 and the largest mat wall of all. To say only Big guilds should have this and other skin vendors is just asinine. Especially considering many big guild members put in like… NOTHING. Seriously. I stand to deposit a minimum of 300 shovels, all the ascended mats, most of the mystic coins, most of everything else… and according to you, I should have less access than some knob who simply joined a big guild and contributed nothing or next-to nothing. LOL. Hilarious. Run along now…

“Oh, we absolutely DO have to pay more per player – this isn’t even arguable.” If you also want all the upgrades bigger guilds have, yes. Else not.

That was my point, as a smaller guild you should set different goals.

“Guilds are NOT companies (or people). The output is not different. We’re not making cars here. This analogy is among the worst I’ve heard.” Guilds are a group of people. More people can do more than few people. That is a fact of life and there is nothing wrong with this. It’s a perfect analogy.

If I would apply the idea that small guilds have to get the same to all elements of the game you would get an extremely boring game. Unskilled players would get the same as skilled players, players who can only spend 1 hour a week should be able to get the same as those who spend 2 hours a day, players who do raids should get the same as players who do Queensdale events.

That does not mean the guild-halls could use some tweaks to help smaller guilds. If you read back here you see me suggesting to lower the required guild-level for upgrades. So smaller guilds are better able to focus on the guild-hall elements that are important for them without having to level up the complete guild-hall. Honestly, the only upgrade that imho should be locked behind level 40 is the expansion one. So I don’t say that vendor should only be available for big guilds, I say the opposite. If you only had read back what I said. That suggestion of lowering the required level for upgrades solves the problems you state here. If gives choices.

Swift.1930:

mcwurth.2081:

GreyWolf.8670:

mcwurth.2081:

call of duty is also an MMO, MMOFPS

If you consider 64 massive, sure.

how many servers are there? in the hundreds. say 200.
200×64?
no clue how many servers there are but it gets more and more with each server. same for guild wars or did you think there is 7 million people online at the same time?

Except that one of the features of an MMO is a persistent instance that people can enter/leave at any time and then return to at any time. CoD? Nope. All instances last as long as a match and then dissolve. Planetside 2? That’s an MMOFPS.

nitpicking is what you are doing now. GW2 server can hold 150 people. such wow. much people. can not really call that MASSIVE either can we.

Draygo.9473:

Reduced quote tree:

No, they do not have to pay way more per player. Imho you are looking at it wrongly.

A big company needs a bigger building with more facilities. A smaller company needs a smaller building with less facilities.

As a smaller guild you might not want to try to get to level 40 and get the guild-expansion. You also might not want to get the Warroom, the Workshop, the Tavern and the Arena all fully upgraded but you might only want to go for the Warroom, or only for the Workshop of only those two (Depending on the size and the preferences). Or maybe you want to go for them all but not get them all completely upgraded.

That should be your goal as a smaller guild, just as a smaller company go’s for a smaller building with less facilities. The cost per member would then be the same.

The problem is, you basically are the small company but want the biggest building, with all possible facilities and then complain that it’s too expensive.

About losing what you had, I agree that that is sort of bad. I can understand it, but I agree it’s not ideal.

There is no smaller building with less faculties. Us small guilds have to get the big boy workshop, we have to get the big boy arena, we have to get the big boy tavern.

I primarily care about the +5 supply buff at camps. Which is something my guild previously earned and would run every single night in wvw. Why? Because we are a small guild that plays the map strategically. Having an extra 25 supply in my party allows us to do far more than your average individual. Before HOT it was a buff we would run during our wvw time every day. Now its locked behind a frustrating pay-wall, something that was essential to the way we played the game.

There has to be a better solution than the current system. This system as it stands now is a travesty. You may be able to ignore the pain because it doesn’t affect you, but please find some empathy.

Again, that is why I suggested to lower the required level per upgrade. That makes it more accessible for you as smaller guild to get that upgrade. While a bigger guild can get that upgrade and the air defense for SM upgrade. So then you in fact do have a smaller vs a bigger war-room. Less features vs more features. You just have to make choices, in your example you would want to go for the +5 upgrade.

WvW btw also has an additional problem, many ‘upgrades’ have to be created by scriber after being unlocked. I think that is a flaw. Guild consumable items should not be created by scribers but earned with Atherium. Scribers should focus on permanent guild things like decorations or maybe additional guild-hall music, guild pets and so on. Not for any consumables, being it banners, World events of WvW consumables.

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

So a big guild has to pay more for exactly the same just because they are bigger. That’s seems extremely unfair.

Why? It would supply the same options as a smaller guild, that’s true, but it would supply them to a larger number of players. To me it seems normal that it would cost more.
If you cook a dinner for 50 people, it requires greater quantities of ingredients than one made for 5 people – even if the dinner in question is exactly the same. The current HoT guild hall system seems to think however, that a dinner for anything less than 500 people just won’t do for any of those groups. Which, when you think about it, is ridiculous.

You are right there, cooking dinner to 50 people cost more than to 5 and you might even need a lager table. However you can prepare it in the same kitchen. But the dinner part is already in place.

For example, you can now unlock a mini vendor (that would be the kitchen in the example). That however does not give out free mini’s (mini’s would be the food) to everybody, it only gives the ability to get them (and this is true for most guild-hall unlocks). Members still have to buy those mini’s and so 50 members all buying the mini’s do in fact spend more than 5.

Of course you could focus on the size of the table, and it might have been ideal if there was also a smaller hall available where everything would be smaller (but that would also mean the vendor would have less mini’s available.. not sure if you would want that) and also cost less. But that would mean much more development-time and people would likely be complaining that their mini vendor had less mini’s available as that of big guilds.

Devata.6589:

Draygo.9473:

Devata.6589:

Draygo.9473:

Swift.1930:

Draygo.9473:

Nury.3062:

I always see the “make the Guild Hall Upgrades scale with the number of members the guild has” FIX. What can stop me from kicking all my guild members,get the mats i need from them,get the upgrade and then invite them again…?!

It might be hard for small guilds to do stuff…but as many people said if you create a guild and you are 2-3 members…let’s be honest,how can you expect to do any content with that guild?
I am a guild leader since 14 november 2013 we had many members now we don’t …let’s say 10-15 daily online members,that is a small guild,yet we don’t complain about the upgrades and we work hard to get our amazing guild hall in a nice shape.
We got all the buildings (tents for now) available and many of the upgrades.
And we are working constantly on it.

They could base it on the max guild roster size. You know the guy you gotta pay to increase your guild member cap? That. If your are a first level guild with the lowest member cap your upgrades are cheaper. The higher your member cap the more you pay. Anet can reset all guilds member caps to the lowest possible for their guild and refund the cost to the guild leader as a one time courtesy.

Hm… three things that I foresee this would affect:

1) if the guild’s cap was cut, the guild members would also have to be cut (temporarily). Building up a lost build roster could cause havoc. All those previously happy people would come to the forum and flame us.
2) big guilds who have already farmed everything and worked very hard would suddenly find that their resources were spent on nothing. More flamers.
3) guilds that want to be big wouldn’t want to have to pay tons simply to upgrade things that small guilds can upgrade for cheap. They would keep the roster empty or at the lowest cap until all the upgrades have been bought, and then bring people back. All the stranded members would understand the advantage and would donate to their guild to progress it. The same issue would still stand, because those guilds would have access to so many resources/income streams that smaller guilds don’t.

But something that would make sense: adding small guild halls for small guilds. Services could be smaller (except WvW buffs) and more affordable for small guilds. Every guild wants a place to call home! And I personally feel that the guild halls are too insanely massive – unless, of course, they are brimming with members who hang out there regularly. Again, small guilds need smaller places. I want a hobbit hole. Or maybe a little old-Ascalon keep.

(Guild Wars 1 guild hall vendor quote: “Truly, what guild can call itself a guild without an island of its own? Come with me. I can take you on a tour of each island, and you can choose which you like the best.”)

Let me clarify, because I think you missed it.

Your guilds cap would be lowered to the lowest tier that it can support.

Meaning that if your guild is at capacity there is no change, if you are in a guild with 5 people but for some reason raised your cap to 500 people it would be lowered to the lowest tier, 50 people.

More examples:

Guild of 10 people, with a cap of 200, cap lowered to 50.
Guild of 55 people cap of 100, cap is unchanged
guild of 120 people cap of 500, cap is lowered to 200.

How costs are adjusted, there are 6 tiers of guilds. Cost is adjusted based on your cap after your cap is lowered to the appropriate amount.
So a Tier 1 guild (50 member cap) has to pay 1/6th of the cost of an upgrade to get it. Favor and the time gate Aetherium costs stay the same no matter what tier your guild is.

Due to this time gate, large guilds are still better off just paying for each upgrade. Especially when you consider for a 500 member guild, even for the most expensive upgrades you are looking at each member contributing 1-3 items per upgrade.

Compared to a small guild that has to pay 500, 1500 items per upgrade.

If you want when a guild increases its cap you can increase the fee to do that.

So a big guild has to pay more for exactly the same just because they are bigger. That’s seems extremely unfair.

And its totally ok that smaller guilds currently have to pay way more per player?

I am not against smaller guilds having to spend a bit more effort per person, but the current effort required to earn what we previously earned is way too kitten high.

No, they do not have to pay way more per player. Imho you are looking at it wrongly.

A big company needs a bigger building with more facilities. A smaller company needs a smaller building with less facilities.

As a smaller guild you might not want to try to get to level 40 and get the guild-expansion. You also might not want to get the Warroom, the Workshop, the Tavern and the Arena all fully upgraded but you might only want to go for the Warroom, or only for the Workshop of only those two (Depending on the size and the preferences). Or maybe you want to go for them all but not get them all completely upgraded.

That should be your goal as a smaller guild, just as a smaller company go’s for a smaller building with less facilities. The cost per member would then be the same.

The problem is, you basically are the small company but want the biggest building, with all possible facilities and then complain that it’s too expensive.

About losing what you had, I agree that that is sort of bad. I can understand it, but I agree it’s not ideal.

Except you have no choice other than be a small guild wanting a big hall and all that goes with it.. because there are no other options to have it smaller.
The costs per member are significantly different based on what ANET have pushed out.
Your argument would stand up if there were options on what size hall could be acquired.. which in turn designates what can be upgraded with effort/cost balanced against what a larger guild would require to take on that larger facility.

As it stands there is no choice, no scaling and therefore no comparable effort/cost between the sizes of guilds, its merely a way to forced a money sink and materials sink through the game.

Devata.6589:

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

So a big guild has to pay more for exactly the same just because they are bigger. That’s seems extremely unfair.

Why? It would supply the same options as a smaller guild, that’s true, but it would supply them to a larger number of players. To me it seems normal that it would cost more.
If you cook a dinner for 50 people, it requires greater quantities of ingredients than one made for 5 people – even if the dinner in question is exactly the same. The current HoT guild hall system seems to think however, that a dinner for anything less than 500 people just won’t do for any of those groups. Which, when you think about it, is ridiculous.

You are right there, cooking dinner to 50 people cost more than to 5 and you might even need a lager table. However you can prepare it in the same kitchen. But the dinner part is already in place.

For example, you can now unlock a mini vendor (that would be the kitchen in the example). That however does not give out free mini’s (mini’s would be the food) to everybody, it only gives the ability to get them (and this is true for most guild-hall unlocks). Members still have to buy those mini’s and so 50 members all buying the mini’s do in fact spend more than 5.

Of course you could focus on the size of the table, and it might have been ideal if there was also a smaller hall available where everything would be smaller (but that would also mean the vendor would have less mini’s available.. not sure if you would want that) and also cost less. But that would mean much more development-time and people would likely be complaining that their mini vendor had less mini’s available as that of big guilds.

No, what you need to focus on is that 5 person dinner still has to prepare enough food and a table big enough to suit 500 people, but still only have 5 people prepare it and eat it.

Ashen.2907:

Swift.1930:

A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

Totally agree.

I third the motion.

Maybe I already replied in this topic, the Search of these Forums are horrible, so I’ve given up on even trying that, and I can’t be bothered looking through all my old posts; Anyways—

I claimed Gilded Hollow for my personal “bank” Guild, with the help of my friend. That’s with two people. I play a Herald, he plays a Warrior. We had little to no issue with taking out the tendrils, besides a few RNG fails where the tendrils would spawn on the complete opposite side of the map where we had just taken out the previous one. It took perhaps 5-6 tries and/or resets, and then it were claimed.

After that, I have been casually enough upgrading my Guild Hall, on my own, and have reached Lv.13, missing just the basic Arena unlock as I am doing my sPvP dailies to get Potions needed, and having gotten a few upgrades at each unlocked location, that I want. Nothing about that feels too annoying or overly difficult. I just need patience. Even the semi-ridiculous need for Crystalline Ore on basic furnishings, feels less frustrating now that the Noxious Pods are by far increased in numbers within Dragon’s Stand. There’s a Flax farm in Verdant Brink, and I have 9 characters that all gather there each day, so that’s over 100 Flax a day from that little spot, and 5 minutes of my time.

Is the system perfect? No. But it’s not as bad as I feel some people make it out to be. It’s going to take you some time, and what’s wrong with that? It’d be boring if it were all unlocked within a week or two.

Dejavu.2349:

Not even the same thing at all, Mal.
You can’t buy Legendaries from vendors. There are vendors, one of which only level 40 guilds who have put in the maximum amount of mats (it’s the last thing in Restoration2) will have access to. They even put the vendors behind huge paywalls or an entire lifetime of gathering, depending on who you talk to – I like to do all my own gathering and spend real cash on gem store stuff – Anet can check this… I like to buy things. I will be doing my own gathering… I’ve started! I have 101 shovels so far (yes, I am a chest-run moocher – I only give 1 shovel per however many people are there) and haven’t been selling my incidentals – just sigils. I fully expect to be grinding mats far into gray hair if they don’t make some changes to help smaller guilds out.

Again… I don’t expect people who aren’t in super small guilds to understand. There’s just too huge of a disconnect in realities between me and people like me and you and people like you. Big guild people have practically no responsibility at all – they carry sooo little weight on their shoulders… of course this all seems trivial to them.

That’s both insulting and untrue. I help lead a large guild, and it is not all no responsibility, rainbows and flowers. It requires a lot of coordination, teamwork, and communication, both to organise the guild, plan events (like guild missions, raids, and events people make themselves, like Hide and Seek) – which, if you don’t have, the whole thing falls apart rapidly – and this takes place both in and out of game.

I understand that you are frustrated by this, but that in no way justifies saying that noone in a big guild has any responsibility.

It’s wrong that they locked you out of stuff you already had access to, if that’s the case. And if it is a bug – considering the other replies about access to some upgrades being carried over, it seems like it is – I think a support ticket would be more effective than asking for compensation for the time you’ve already put into the game.

Lord Drekar.4619:

It’s wrong that they locked you out of stuff you already had access to, if that’s the case. And if it is a bug – considering the other replies about access to some upgrades being carried over, it seems like it is – I think a support ticket would be more effective than asking for compensation for the time you’ve already put into the game.

It’s not a bug, it’s intended, and it annoys me no end. When most of our members quit (never to come back, I assure you) we could at least still keep banners and WvW upgrades going. Can forget about that now. Too few left to upgrade a guild hall, unless we go full-on grind. Which, frankly, is not what any of us bought the game for.

lol

all discussions that involved comparing large and small guilds usually don’t end up cosntructive. that is because the comments are usually bias, unrealistic or unfair.

i have already mentioned it in the many guild hall threads that whoever has a larger resources will always upgrade it faster and easier, that will never change because that is how things are. so again, any arguments about small and large guilds are totally pointless, absolutely pointless.

again, i mentioned in one of those many guild hall threads. if anyone of you truly know how to fight for your rights, you will know the best approach is a suggestion or discussion or choice of words that are capable to gain supports from many others but obviously in this thread, no one is gaining much supports from one another. so yea, it is really pointless.

Edit:

Big guild people have practically no responsibility at all – they carry sooo little weight on their shoulders…

Dude, that some really arrogant words you have there. If you think that it is THAT easy to build a large guild and then maintain it to be large, then do it and show it to me, only then you have the rights to say those words but other than that, that is really arrogant of you.

So, basically, not only can my small guild not even claim it’s own Guild Hall with it’s 2 or 3 people (family – pretty much the only people I can stand any more), but we have to get to guild level 40 and get an insane amount of materials – like completely impossible within the expected lifetime of this game (my kids will be through college before I was able to grind out all materials)- in order to fully experience the game.

I can relate and agree to your argument fully. I have so many times used Guild Wars as a form of escapism. I work in customer service and talk to people all day, I don’t hate people, but I don’t always want to have to socialize. Given the history of Guild Wars (gw1) and even Guild Wars 2 (gw2) originally, it was/is more than possible to solo content and earn any and all rewards offered. In gw1 they had heroes, so you had a full team at your disposal. I had/have a guild of one person with a guild hall on wizard’s island with all the upgrades. In gw2, you could originally immediately enter in practice servers and earn pvp xp and rewards to mix in mystic forge to gain skins. Some of the skins I have from Arah are from that alone. I have still not finished all paths for Arah and have been playing since launch, and now with the decreased rewards for dungeons and increased requirements for crafting, it seems unlikely that I will be able to ever reach or finish content rewards without a dedicated team. I am not against comaraderie, but one of the draws for me has been the option to just solo and still benefit.

Actually… this whole situation reminds me a bit of Age of Conan. There you could claim your own city with your guild. Which you could then build up to higher levels by contributing resources (with better facilities and more abilities) demanding ever bigger amounts of ever more expensive resources. We got to the very start of T3 when people had enough of the never-ending grind and just quit the game for another one.

You don’t need to be in a “big” guild. 3 or 4 people can do it with some gold investment, 10 people just by playing. Itsy and I have pretty much duo’d our guild to 23 so far; yes some of the later upgrades will take months or even a year to reach at our current rate, but I see no issue with that. It gives us something to work toward and all the important stuff was easy to unlock.

80% of our progress has just been us two. We’ve had two other active contributors help with shovel farming and making some bloodstone bricks, but that’s about it.

But mostly you are just salty as a solo completionist. You can get a guild hall with repair + merchant to port to at any time trivially. It’s a one-time LFG run with a few strangers and like 150 gold. The only other thing you arguably need is convenient bank access which 2 people can easily get in short order with the first-tier workshop.

Beyond that every other thing is just fluff and you are just annoyed you can’t 100% it solo. Some skins and minis are inaccessible, but there are dozens of those that are equally out of reach. You don’t need an arena for 2 people. I guarantee a 2-person guild already wasn’t using WvW upgrades from the war room anyway. So what exactly do you feel you are missing out on?

The only thing you might be missing out on are the buffs, which with five guild slots you can easily mooch off from other people; which in fact I know you were already essentially doing pre-HoT anyway from a large faceless guild and which you can keep doing now.

milo.7198:

I’m in a small family guild. We aren’t mad about not getting a hall. That’s no big deal. But all the amenities we worked so hard for, harder than a bigger guild, like banners and weaponsmith, have been taken away.

Nobody lost access to armorer/weaponsmith. Go to the guild initiative office in Lion’s Arch for your guild. The level 1 armorer and weaponsmith are right there waiting for you if you had them before HoT. As well as your existing bank upgrades.

For 150g more and some time in LFG, even the very smallest one-man guild can get an anvil, a merchant, and free, instant access to these services from anywhere in the world at any time with a free return port included.

As for the banners… well, the scribe recipes for the banners you had unlocked pre-HoT will remain accessible to you post HoT. Yes, you’ll need to level up a scribe now to actually make those banners but ALL GUILDS are in that boat now. It’s a change to banner acquisition that affects everyone equally, and leveling a scribe and crafting those banners isn’t any more (or less) expensive for someone in a larger guild than it is for you.

Games that turn their back on small groups (2-5) are usually dommed unless they are single player games … GW2 was good in the small group departement but mad it much more unintresting with HOT which starts to loose players. sPvP is not the key of holding this small groups, because sPvP tends to be elitists. Many see WvW as end content, loved 5 player dungeons and runing with a friend is quite common. I say its the key to focus on this players. If focus goes on sPvP and huge Guilds all will be lost.
A game i know that focused on 20 player groups did go down in flames…
Never focus on the elite and huge groups. Doing it will bring armageddon.

Quote from Swift.1930: A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

ZachAttack.3957:

Ashen.2907:

Swift.1930:

A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

Totally agree.

I third the motion.

I fourth the motion.

nezroy.8492:

milo.7198:

I’m in a small family guild. We aren’t mad about not getting a hall. That’s no big deal. But all the amenities we worked so hard for, harder than a bigger guild, like banners and weaponsmith, have been taken away.

Nobody lost access to armorer/weaponsmith. Go to the guild initiative office in Lion’s Arch for your guild. The level 1 armorer and weaponsmith are right there waiting for you if you had them before HoT. As well as your existing bank upgrades.

For 150g more and some time in LFG, even the very smallest one-man guild can get an anvil, a merchant, and free, instant access to these services from anywhere in the world at any time with a free return port included.

As for the banners… well, the scribe recipes for the banners you had unlocked pre-HoT will remain accessible to you post HoT. Yes, you’ll need to level up a scribe now to actually make those banners but ALL GUILDS are in that boat now. It’s a change to banner acquisition that affects everyone equally, and leveling a scribe and crafting those banners isn’t any more (or less) expensive for someone in a larger guild than it is for you.

lol @ ‘just’ 150 gold. Ever remember how hard that amount can be to get if you don’t farm for it? And new players can completely forget about it…

Compass.9621:

Quote from Swift.1930: A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

ZachAttack.3957:

Ashen.2907:

Swift.1930:

A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

Totally agree.

I third the motion.

I fourth the motion.

i fifth the motion.

Jaxom.7310:

Compass.9621:

Quote from Swift.1930: A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

ZachAttack.3957:

Ashen.2907:

Swift.1930:

A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

Totally agree.

I third the motion.

I fourth the motion.

i fifth the motion.

Can I sixth?

Dejavu.2349:

I am a huge GW2 fan – I’ve brought many people to the game and have been playing since beta, but the reasons I’ve had to come back to this game between every other MMO are pretty much gone.

I’ve played every major MMO from it’s launch through it’s content at launch. Some games (SWTOR, for instance) I get done with all available content before they’ve even finished the intended starting content, so I leave… and I don’t come back. Ever. Other games take a while longer (like WoW expansions, which I stopped buying after Cataclysm or Rift), but when I left, I left. It was done. Finished. Over. GW2 has been my mainstay since it’s launch and, sadly, it won’t be for much longer due to the fact that I can no longer experience all it’s content without being in a guild. A big guild, at that.

The primary reason I kept coming back to GW2 was that I could see all of it’s content without having to deal with people (I’m always a guild/raid leader in other games and that just wears me down) and still be as relevant as I was when I started a break – sometimes a couple of weeks, sometimes a couple of months; I knew the same great game would be waiting for me when I came back. And I put a lot of hard-earned cash into this game because I loved it so much and it earned it.

That has changed and this is why:
https://goo.gl/ZXBiva
I made a little spreadsheet of the required materials just for Resotration 1-affiliated builds in the Guild Hall. This isn’t nearly a quarter of the materials needed to get to the actual content like Weaponsmith 2’s, which require completion of nearly all builds in restoration 2 and a guild level of 40.

So, basically, not only can my small guild not even claim it’s own Guild Hall with it’s 2 or 3 people (family – pretty much the only people I can stand any more), but we have to get to guild level 40 and get an insane amount of materials – like completely impossible within the expected lifetime of this game (my kids will be through college before I was able to grind out all materials)- in order to fully experience the game.

I’m done.
I’ll play until I leave (again) for another game, but this time, I’ll have a WHOLE LOT LESS reason to come back. Right now, the MMO field is pretty sparse and dry, so I’m good for a while…. But I’m extremely disappointed that my refuge game is now just another game in a pile of grindy games that require I pretend to like other people. I just won’t do it. Unlike some people, I’m not a pretender… I really am incapable of feigning interest any more.

I get that you are frustrated with the inability to be able to do much with Guild Halls being of a small guild. However, reading through this post, it seems that you are most upset by the fact that some minor things (i.e. banners) were removed, and still more is locked behind either guild levels and/or a massive mat collection.

You, and others who have posted either in here or other similar threads, seem to be under the impression that the devs just came up with how Guild Halls function, the effort and time needed, and so on, simply because they were having a bad hair day, it was Tuesday in Seattle, or they just don’t care/out of touch.

Fortunately this isn’t the case. Many of the functionality and features we see in guild halls today are specifically what players wanted. They said they wanted upgrades to take time and effort. They wanted them to be gated. They wanted a place to choose where they can easily and instantly travel to from anywhere in the game. They even made many suggestions about using mats to upgrade, and that the amounts and costs should be a deterrent to super guilds from just being able to buy their way to the top.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/cdi/CDI-Guilds-Guild-Halls/first

If you want to be angry at anybody. Be angry at them. Just glancing over the thread, you can see that many of the things suggested were in fact implemented. The devs just gave the players what they asked for. But it turns out the players in general don’t know what they heck they want.

Dejavu.2349, I know you!
Mi Casa Es Tu Casa. You don’t have to solo this!
We can be in up to 5 guilds. Come play with NICE guild!

To All of you: We hear your pain. Materials are handy, but all we really want is just YOU. You need PEOPLE to run guild missions, events & raids. We are happy to share our level 23 Gilded Hollow with Arena. We don’t mind if you only rep during missions. <3
————————————————————————-
Ways to contact me to join NICE- message me in game, Itsyboom on twitter, http://niceclan.org or teamspeak nice.typefrag.com:5635

SkyShroud.2865:

lol

all discussions that involved comparing large and small guilds usually don’t end up cosntructive. that is because the comments are usually bias, unrealistic or unfair.

i have already mentioned it in the many guild hall threads that whoever has a larger resources will always upgrade it faster and easier, that will never change because that is how things are. so again, any arguments about small and large guilds are totally pointless, absolutely pointless.

again, i mentioned in one of those many guild hall threads. if anyone of you truly know how to fight for your rights, you will know the best approach is a suggestion or discussion or choice of words that are capable to gain supports from many others but obviously in this thread, no one is gaining much supports from one another. so yea, it is really pointless.

Edit:

Big guild people have practically no responsibility at all – they carry sooo little weight on their shoulders…

Dude, that some really arrogant words you have there. If you think that it is THAT easy to build a large guild and then maintain it to be large, then do it and show it to me, only then you have the rights to say those words but other than that, that is really arrogant of you.

No.. I think he hit the nail on the head personally.

If you can’t organise a tenth of that faceless 500 to donate enough to upgrade a guild hall in a tenth of the time a 5 man guild can, then well … maybe it’s time to step aside and get someone to take the lead cos your failing hard.
Small guilds can be easier to organise, but large guilds need a lot less organisation and effort per player to achieve the same goals in a fraction of the time.
Take off the blinkers and open those eyes, then maybe you will get a little perspective.

Absconditus.6804:

Maybe I already replied in this topic, the Search of these Forums are horrible, so I’ve given up on even trying that, and I can’t be bothered looking through all my old posts; Anyways—

I claimed Gilded Hollow for my personal “bank” Guild, with the help of my friend. That’s with two people. I play a Herald, he plays a Warrior. We had little to no issue with taking out the tendrils, besides a few RNG fails where the tendrils would spawn on the complete opposite side of the map where we had just taken out the previous one. It took perhaps 5-6 tries and/or resets, and then it were claimed.

After that, I have been casually enough upgrading my Guild Hall, on my own, and have reached Lv.13, missing just the basic Arena unlock as I am doing my sPvP dailies to get Potions needed, and having gotten a few upgrades at each unlocked location, that I want. Nothing about that feels too annoying or overly difficult. I just need patience. Even the semi-ridiculous need for Crystalline Ore on basic furnishings, feels less frustrating now that the Noxious Pods are by far increased in numbers within Dragon’s Stand. There’s a Flax farm in Verdant Brink, and I have 9 characters that all gather there each day, so that’s over 100 Flax a day from that little spot, and 5 minutes of my time.

Is the system perfect? No. But it’s not as bad as I feel some people make it out to be. It’s going to take you some time, and what’s wrong with that? It’d be boring if it were all unlocked within a week or two.

Let me know when you clear restoration 2/weaponsmith 2!
He’s my goal and I’d like to know how long it takes a real true solo earner like me (the others in my guild are kitten -near worthless). Until then… Yes… in the beginning, it looks doable, but it’s really just the tip of the Iceberg.

Do you (or when will you) have 21000 flax seeds yet? 600 shovels? 2265 Globs of Ecto? 18000 Elder Wood Planks? 21000 Mithril? 3450 thermocatalytic reagents (483 GOld, straight-up)? 950 Opal Orbs? 610 Tomes of Knowledge? 1085 200-luck essences? Want the rest of the list? It’s been linked… Not to mention max-level scribe.

You may not see it yet, but my point is valid.

SkyShroud.2865:

Dude, that some really arrogant words you have there. If you think that it is THAT easy to build a large guild and then maintain it to be large, then do it and show it to me, only then you have the rights to say those words but other than that, that is really arrogant of you.

Oh get over yourself. I’ve led big guilds in MMO’s through their raiding content. I know exactly what it’s like to organize people and am more qualified than 99% of the people here to talk about the huge pile of do-nothings that just come in to get the good stuff (it’s why DKP exists), but make no real contribution. I have perspective, tyvm. I prefer a meritocracy.

I came to GW2 because it was a game wherein I wouldn’t HAVE to lead or even be in a big guild. The entire point of this thread, since you clearly didn’t read through it, not that I blame you… it’s a lot of words) is that they’ve changed the very focus of their game and are now forcing people to join Big guilds to get access to skins and buffs, etc…

I personally know several people who joined big guilds and have donated nothing. nada. cero. zip. Whereas I stand to donate pretty much everything… and we’ll both have the same access, only I’ll have it after my kids go off to college… maybe. It would be so much easier for me to organize any level of guild – 10-50-500 – than to do it all myself or with a little help from a few people who have demanding jobs. I’m actually very good at guild leading. But that’s not why I play guild wars – I play this game to get away from all that work. Oh man it is WORK… a ton of WORK… there is very little fun in it. The new changes have taken away the primary reason this game is my mainstay (the one I don’t quit, though… it’s more likely now).

And we now get to grind for a veritable kittenton of mats for upgrades we already had, but that were taken away and put behind a huge mat wall. Yay. Their execution of the guild hall leaves much to be desired. Again… anyone who’s not a primary earner would not understand this at all. This thread is for primary earners… not for people who have it easy.

Broom.2561:

Jaxom.7310:

Compass.9621:

Quote from Swift.1930: A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

ZachAttack.3957:

Ashen.2907:

Swift.1930:

A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

Totally agree.

I third the motion.

I fourth the motion.

i fifth the motion.

Can I sixth?

Of course! Now we just need to start a petition and everyone can sign it.

Still going at this?
— prepares for bashing … joke xD

Honestly? I was hoping they’d add more ‘hearts’ to the new zones like in the core game. These dynamic events again remind me of the public quest system in Warhammer Online.

And, after the initial rush, they were pretty much abandoned within a few weeks too.

ZachAttack.3957:

Broom.2561:

Jaxom.7310:

Compass.9621:

Quote from Swift.1930: A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

ZachAttack.3957:

Ashen.2907:

Swift.1930:

A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

Totally agree.

I third the motion.

I fourth the motion.

i fifth the motion.

Quote from Swift.1930: A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.
Can I sixth?

Of course! Now we just need to start a petition and everyone can sign it.

Sounds good to me! I seventh this.

and also:

Honestly? I was hoping they’d add more ‘hearts’ to the new zones like in the core game. These dynamic events again remind me of the public quest system in Warhammer Online.

And, after the initial rush, they were pretty much abandoned within a few weeks too.

I’m not the only one who misses those nice and relaxed simple quests? Really?!!
<3 Marry me

nezroy.8492:

You don’t need to be in a “big” guild. 3 or 4 people can do it with some gold investment, 10 people just by playing. Itsy and I have pretty much duo’d our guild to 23 so far; yes some of the later upgrades will take months or even a year to reach at our current rate, but I see no issue with that. It gives us something to work toward and all the important stuff was easy to unlock.

80% of our progress has just been us two. We’ve had two other active contributors help with shovel farming and making some bloodstone bricks, but that’s about it.

But mostly you are just salty as a solo completionist. You can get a guild hall with repair + merchant to port to at any time trivially. It’s a one-time LFG run with a few strangers and like 150 gold. The only other thing you arguably need is convenient bank access which 2 people can easily get in short order with the first-tier workshop.

Beyond that every other thing is just fluff and you are just annoyed you can’t 100% it solo. Some skins and minis are inaccessible, but there are dozens of those that are equally out of reach. You don’t need an arena for 2 people. I guarantee a 2-person guild already wasn’t using WvW upgrades from the war room anyway. So what exactly do you feel you are missing out on?

The only thing you might be missing out on are the buffs, which with five guild slots you can easily mooch off from other people; which in fact I know you were already essentially doing pre-HoT anyway from a large faceless guild and which you can keep doing now.

I asked you the other day, but you didn’t reply… How much real money have you put in to get as far as you have? I was trying to make a point in this thread… Because that’s really what it would take for any small guild to be competitive… dollar bills…. lots of them.

You’re right about me being a solo completionist. But it’s why I played this game to begin with. That’s my whole point. I can’t be that any more, so my primary reason for choosing this game over others is gone. GW2 is no longer my refuge. It’s just another MMO. It’s the fluff that matters. No fluff is why I quit Wildstar (other than rosterboss). Fluff is why I play games.

I don’t see the point at all in having a guild hall when I can’t have weapon/armor smiths 2. It’s not the hall itself I care about… It’s the benefits therein. The fact that I stand to put in 2000 times the mats (that’s a reasonable number, too, looking at everything) of any average big-guild person and have the same access (but way way down the line) is just stupid.

Effectively, I get to choose between playing the game as they’ve allowed and even encouraged me to for the last 3 1/2 years and not have a guild hall OR join a big guild. You know me… what do you think I’m gong to choose?! Can you see me joining a big guild when I won’t even join your guild (a person who I know and like (except when you come into my threads being mean))? I said this earlier in this thread somewhere… I will be the last one standing in any guild I’m in and it’s going to be my own or my husband’s guild so one of us has control over it when everyone else leaves.

Assuming you’re talking about guild heroes banners with the mooching part ‘cause I’ve never been in any big guilds in GW2… Whoopteedoo…

Thanks for the bump, I guess.

Broom.2561:

Jaxom.7310:

Compass.9621:

Quote from Swift.1930: A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

ZachAttack.3957:

Ashen.2907:

Swift.1930:

A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

Totally agree.

I third the motion.

I fourth the motion.

i fifth the motion.

Can I sixth?

It already exists; it’s the guild initiative office in lion’s arch. You have your guild armorer and weaponsmith, your bank, and a private place to hang with one or two friends.

ShelBlackblood.7826:

ZachAttack.3957:

Broom.2561:

Jaxom.7310:

Compass.9621:

Quote from Swift.1930: A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

ZachAttack.3957:

Ashen.2907:

Swift.1930:

A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

Totally agree.

I third the motion.

I fourth the motion.

i fifth the motion.

Quote from Swift.1930: A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.
Can I sixth?

Of course! Now we just need to start a petition and everyone can sign it.

Sounds good to me! I seventh this.

and also:

Honestly? I was hoping they’d add more ‘hearts’ to the new zones like in the core game. These dynamic events again remind me of the public quest system in Warhammer Online.

And, after the initial rush, they were pretty much abandoned within a few weeks too.

I’m not the only one who misses those nice and relaxed simple quests? Really?!!
<3 Marry me

But then you wouldn’t get to play any GW2 because you’d have to go to bed at 9:00 xP