Guild Wars 2

since when does how i play the game (with 3-5 friends) invalidate how you play the game (with 20, 50, 100, etc people). u still get all the shinies long before i do. your guild hall gets all fancy looooong before mine do. if all we is askin is that eventually we can get there, why does that bother you. you will prob never even see my lil guild or guild hall or even me, so…

i dunno why can’t i just have as much fun playing w/ my few friends as you do?

Next people are going to ask that Raids be able to be completed with 1-2 player parties because “its still a party, this game is play how you want”.

ANet has decided that 1-2 people is NOT a Guild for the purposes of favor generation. Rational people would say that of course 1-2 people is not a Guild anymore than they would call 1-2 people a group. Some serious SJW style arguments going on in this thread.

I have had a guild for almost 2.5 years, It is IV,IV,IV,V in unlocks and I used it for a lot of things… I have had a friend joinit 2 years and 3 months ago, she stopped playing 6 months ago, I asked some friends with guild banks to assist in unlocking a guild hall and I’ll try to get some additional unlocks… I’ll assist them as well…

I’ll probably be hampered somewhat in unlocking my guild but I do not care…. too much…

Why not have the ability to buy favor with gold, just like influence can be bought with gold. Big guilds don’t need to buy, they’ll have enough favor from missions. Small guilds, personal bank guilds, can buy and slowly progress their guild. Why is this suddenly so bad when it hasn’t been a problem for 3 years?

Vayne.8563:

…There’s already a large guild bias in the game from launch….

Absolutely untrue. The status quo has no advantage to gaining influence in larger than groups of two. (Two players, representing a guild and completing events simultaneously, earn 10x the influence of a single player, but there is no further rate change after that.) Influence is currently earned in events which have no bias in favor of large guilds. The large guilds only potential advantage over a smaller guild is more influence farmers.

In other words, 20 people in 10 guilds completing an event earn the same amount of influence as 20 people in 1 guild.

The event system itself and the prevention of power leveling are other examples that there is no design bias in favor of large guilds. The only change that favored large guilds that I can think of was the guild mission and “merit” award system.

The expansion changes all that through the guild group requirements for earning favor. The elimination of events as a source of the “new influence” also acts as a barrier to small guild participation in “new influence” gaining events.

With the expansion there is a bias against small guilds (say about 10 or fewer active members) unless they all happen to live in the same time zone.

I wouldn’t be so upset (we have guild vaults already) but they have tied expansion content to guild halls. It really upsets me to buy the expansion and then afterwards it is announced that I won’t have access to the scribe.

Valgar.9576:

“MMO” drops mic and walks away

You don’t seem to “get” the fact that I am part of the MMO. The only difference between us is the guild we represent as we play the content.

Fox.3469:

You are wrong, at any time in the evening, just look for people in the group finder, or ask in LA. Say:" Small guild could use some help with mission, would appreciate some help. Can guestinvite if you need commendations."
Make a “Guest” role in your guild with no permissions, so these people do get some rewards for their effort if they want to, you can remove them after the mission.
You will have a group of people to do your missions in the same time as it takes to form your party for dungeons.

Perhaps my point wasn’t clear enough so lets agree to disagree.

Do you really want to see all the spam in LFG tool and in map chat from all micro/tiny guilds? I know I sure don’t. Yes I’m aware I can do temp invites to other players to help with said mission but I have to do this each week over & over in order to earn favor and this isn’t what I feel myself and others should have to do.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Why not have the ability to buy favor with gold, just like influence can be bought with gold. Big guilds don’t need to buy, they’ll have enough favor from missions. Small guilds, personal bank guilds, can buy and slowly progress their guild. Why is this suddenly so bad when it hasn’t been a problem for 3 years?

This right here 100% and especially with favor cap each week! and plus it would be a gold sink and what MMO don’t like gold sinks! It would solve all the arguments on both side as it would be the perfect and only real compromise here.

I think hell just froze over for once we agree on something

Like -Just a flesh wound- asked Why is this suddenly so bad when it hasn’t been a problem for 3 years? Please someone give a convincing argument against this in a well thought out post. Anything less won’t qualify!

@JediYoda.1275
I think hell just froze over for once we agree on something

Second time. That’s my quote you have on your signature. (“ANet. They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity to not mess up.”)

Some people apparently think the game changes in the expansion are being driven by game designers striving to improve our playing experience. I don’t know ANET, but I do know how for-profit corporations work. Based on my experience management has directed the game changes to fit their views on how to improve profits under the new business model. It is not about selling expansions. Apparently they think if they attract “hard core gamers,” the hard core gamers will spend more cash on the game.

In my personal experience, I think that is a mistaken assumption. Broadening the customer base is good business strategy, but not when offset by dropping other customers. I expect most hard core gamers are under 35 and don’t have a lot of extra cash to spend on gaming after purchasing hardware and paying the ISP and smart phone bills every month. Rather I expect that older casual players tend to offer more cash flow per account. Two reasons. Casual players rather take short cuts to grinding and older players tend to have more discretionary income than the younger players.

When I was 35 I had less than half the income I do now and, raising kids, I was living paycheck to paycheck. Since I started playing mmos almost 20 years ago, my income has doubled and my kids are raising their own families. I am too embarrassed to even hint at how much I have spent on gems playing this “free to play” game.

ANET is making a business mistake in deciding to place barriers to casual gamers having access to the guild content. Why does management think it is smart to reduce the opportunity to sell gems to anyone? They need to start thinking of guilds as cash customers too. More guilds, more customers. Create content attractive to the hard core gamers, yes, but don’t stop the cash flow from your small guild customers.

For what it is worth I think the game designers are doing a great job within the restraints they are given by management. The concept of creating 9 new professions by adding specializations to existing characters, especially, is brilliant from both a marketing and design perspective.

coming from many other mmos, first you need 5 man in a party to create guild in any mmo. gw2 removes that restrictions but that doesn’t mean 2 man in a guild is called guild.
it’s more of a invite only friend list.
But yeah if a 2 man guild want to get favor go ahead ask for it. OR you can join another guild that is not huge in size but have decent number of friendly people that will take you both in.

I still don’t understand how needing THREE people is a barrier. 3 whole people. That is not “hard core” or trying to exclude anyone. Three people is all that is needed in order to get credit for most guild missions. At most that’s finding two more people who have a similar schedule.

Why is it suddenly so bad to make new friends or even acquaintances again? I’ve been following this thread and I can’t make sense of it.

A 5 person guild is a tiny guild and not in any way shape or form a hard thing to manage. No one has to boss anyone around or be bossed around.

I just really don’t get why people are so bent out of shape about needing 3 people to get credit for guild missions.

khani.4786:

I just really don’t get why people are so bent out of shape about needing 3 people to get credit for guild missions.

At least part of it is because it’s the removal of options that could easily be kept.

The other part, at least for me, is because it’s taking something away from micro guilds. Not much, it’s true, but still something. It’s like owning a house, and finding out that the city is making your street just a bit wider. Sounds great, until you discover that they’re doing it by taking a couple feet from everyone’s front yards. Sure, you have the rest of the yard and the house is fine, but it’s still an authority deciding to take something you’ve earned. Even if it’s a city improvement, it’s not a pleasant feeling and it leaves you wondering what they’ll take next.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

The premise of the OP is that all content in the game should be available to everyone, regardless of playstyle, skill, or frequency of participation. This has never been entirely true and it’s becoming less true with HoT.

Some players like this philosophy; some don’t. If you’re in the second category, I recommend you consider adapting to these sorts of changes rather than getting frustrated by them.

In the specific situation:

• Almost the entire core-game is suitable for small guilds, including 2-player guilds.
• Almost none of the core is designed for large guilds.
• HoT will include some content that is designed for large guilds.

In other words, small guilds are only theoretically prevented from easy participation in a tiny amount of the game. I think that’s a reasonable compromise.

That’s not really what the premise of the thread is. The premise is this guy would like to do guild content on his own, or with only one other person.

I don’t think some realize exactly how much work goes into building and maintaining a guild of any actual size. While the idea of free rewards for everyone sounds nice, there should be some payoff associated with the effort larger groups put into building communities.

Smaller guilds should be supported, but there has to be a point at which we say, that isn’t really a guild, or else the concept of guilds loses all meaning.

That said, I do believe Anet should explore enhancements to personal housing instances.

Blaeys.3102:

I don’t think some realize exactly how much work goes into building and maintaining a guild of any actual size. While the idea of free rewards for everyone sounds nice, there should be some payoff associated with the effort larger groups put into building communities.

Smaller guilds should be supported, but there has to be a point at which we say, that isn’t really a guild, or else the concept of guilds loses all meaning.

That said, I do believe Anet should explore enhancements to personal housing instances.

I don’t see where anyone is asking for free rewards? If a guy like the OP wanted free rewards, he could join a giant-size guild and mooch off the efforts of the rest of the guild.

I helped run a guild in another game for 2-3 years. I know all about how “free” and “effort” work. Moochers will be moochers.

Theoretically speaking, 1-2 person deal who tries to build and upgrade a guild on his/their own is putting in the top amount of effort a person can put into building and upgrading a guild. Free is the farthest thing from it.

I do get the part about guild concept and what a guild means and all that. I think that is a fair argument. But if we’re talking about 1 person, or a married couple, who are never going to join a guild outside of their small setup, then is the concept of a guild truly being harmed by their being able to accomplish something on their own?

Here’s where I see the validity of your argument: If there was a sizable number of people who would otherwise join a guild together, but are not doing so because it’s easier/simpler to run a 1-2 man guild. I don’t see that being the case though, even if micro guilds are capable of making monumentally slow progress.

How you keep things in line would be relatively simple (and keep in mind, I’m not well-versed in what the current/planned guild mission design is): You have a tier of missions that is only unlocked if your guild is 1-2 members. This tier is soloable, but gives a fraction of the advancement that regular tiers do. So if you are doing a micro guild, there is content for you, but the incentive is still there to join a “real” guild if you want to progress at the same rate as other players.

Bada-bing, bada-boom. Problem solved.

Bob.7189:

Vayne.8563:

…There’s already a large guild bias in the game from launch….

Absolutely untrue. The status quo has no advantage to gaining influence in larger than groups of two. (Two players, representing a guild and completing events simultaneously, earn 10x the influence of a single player, but there is no further rate change after that.) Influence is currently earned in events which have no bias in favor of large guilds. The large guilds only potential advantage over a smaller guild is more influence farmers.

In other words, 20 people in 10 guilds completing an event earn the same amount of influence as 20 people in 1 guild.

The event system itself and the prevention of power leveling are other examples that there is no design bias in favor of large guilds. The only change that favored large guilds that I can think of was the guild mission and “merit” award system.

The expansion changes all that through the guild group requirements for earning favor. The elimination of events as a source of the “new influence” also acts as a barrier to small guild participation in “new influence” gaining events.

With the expansion there is a bias against small guilds (say about 10 or fewer active members) unless they all happen to live in the same time zone.

I wouldn’t be so upset (we have guild vaults already) but they have tied expansion content to guild halls. It really upsets me to buy the expansion and then afterwards it is announced that I won’t have access to the scribe.

So your group of two can do all the guild puzzles? You can do bounties without help in time? You can do all the guild challenges. The bias is there. You can deny it all you want, but it’s fact.

Labjax.2465:

Blaeys.3102:

I don’t think some realize exactly how much work goes into building and maintaining a guild of any actual size. While the idea of free rewards for everyone sounds nice, there should be some payoff associated with the effort larger groups put into building communities.

Smaller guilds should be supported, but there has to be a point at which we say, that isn’t really a guild, or else the concept of guilds loses all meaning.

That said, I do believe Anet should explore enhancements to personal housing instances.

I don’t see where anyone is asking for free rewards? If a guy like the OP wanted free rewards, he could join a giant-size guild and mooch off the efforts of the rest of the guild.

I helped run a guild in another game for 2-3 years. I know all about how “free” and “effort” work. Moochers will be moochers.

Theoretically speaking, 1-2 person deal who tries to build and upgrade a guild on his/their own is putting in the top amount of effort a person can put into building and upgrading a guild. Free is the farthest thing from it.

I do get the part about guild concept and what a guild means and all that. I think that is a fair argument. But if we’re talking about 1 person, or a married couple, who are never going to join a guild outside of their small setup, then is the concept of a guild truly being harmed by their being able to accomplish something on their own?

Here’s where I see the validity of your argument: If there was a sizable number of people who would otherwise join a guild together, but are not doing so because it’s easier/simpler to run a 1-2 man guild. I don’t see that being the case though, even if micro guilds are capable of making monumentally slow progress.

How you keep things in line would be relatively simple (and keep in mind, I’m not well-versed in what the current/planned guild mission design is): You have a tier of missions that is only unlocked if your guild is 1-2 members. This tier is soloable, but gives a fraction of the advancement that regular tiers do. So if you are doing a micro guild, there is content for you, but the incentive is still there to join a “real” guild if you want to progress at the same rate as other players.

Bada-bing, bada-boom. Problem solved.

dis guy/girl gits it

since when does how i play the game (with 3-5 friends) invalidate how you play the game (with 20, 50, 100, etc people). u still get all the shinies long before i do. your guild hall gets all fancy looooong before mine do. if all we is askin is that eventually we can get there, why does that bother you. you will prob never even see my lil guild or guild hall or even me, so…

i dunno why can’t i just have as much fun playing w/ my few friends as you do?

Vayne.8563:

…So your group of two can do all the guild puzzles? You can do bounties without help in time? You can do all the guild challenges. The bias is there. You can deny it all you want, but it’s fact.

I am going to assume that you are not intentionally being obtuse, so I will answer your question. A group of two cannot complete a guild puzzle mission. (I like traditional non-linear adventuring and crafting. I didn’t buy the game to play activities, dance in a capital, or solve puzzles of any type.) There is no bias, however, because completing guild missions is not currently required to create a guild, function as a guild, build vaults, or train and level a craft. That is all now going to change, except one person will still be able to create a guild, but for no benefit. And if I recall correctly, there were no guild missions at launch.

Just so we understand each other, I have no desire to join a large guild so that I can contribute favor and materials so that the guild officers may enjoy the full content of the expansion, i.e., play a scribe. This would be the first time in 14 years of playing various MMOs that I will not be mastering every craft.

khani.4786:

I still don’t understand how needing THREE people is a barrier. 3 whole people. That is not “hard core” or trying to exclude anyone. Three people is all that is needed in order to get credit for most guild missions. At most that’s finding two more people who have a similar schedule….

Because simply adding 2 new members with a similar schedule to a 1 person guild is not a viable solution. In practice a guild probably needs to maintain 5-6 active members (with level 80 characters) minimum to consistently complete the 3-person minimum guild missions over a 12+ month period. It would be very unusual to have 3 persons available each week more than half the time during a 12+ month stretch. And then you have to replace members who go inactive for various reasons.

Now add in the factor that every single small guild on the server will be looking to add members at the same time. Now the marketing strategy behind the changes is becoming apparent: ANET is motivating current players to recruit new players among their friends and family members.

This restriction is going to be a headache for small guilds (say 10 members or less) because many members are not playing consistently for whatever reason.

The barrier-headache is not just the 3 person minimum requirement, but the elimination of all sources of the new influence from any source other than guild missions. It also penalizes guilds whose members do not enjoy playing all three types of play (PvE, PvP and WvW).

The way things currently work influence rolls in from guild members leveling new alts. Level 2 earns the same influence as level 80. You don’t even need to farm influence. It is painless.

I am part of a two person guild with no interest in joining a larger one. We are able to accomplish a lot with just two people. Please do not ruin this aspect of the game for us.

I really hope they would give even 1 person guilds some way of earning favor. I would love to play in a small guild (10-20 players) and work as a team, do world bosses, chat etc. The thing is, I have no friends that play games and everytime I have joined a proper guild I’ve felt like an outsider. That is why I made my own guild, I wanted to work towards guild perks and buffs without feeling like I’m ignored and left out.

I think the people in small guilds are only asking some way of working towards their hall, not a way to compete or keep up with the “real” guilds. I think the Guild Hall stuff will work really well in guilds that only have irl friends as member or the guild isn’t massive and the people have been playing together for a long time. These guilds can talk / vote on how to build their halls. Then there are guilds that have a dictator leading them; s/he calls all the shots and others are just drones that do all the work. So why should someone who wants to work on a guild, even if it is just a one man guild, have no chance of doing so when a guy can just watch others do the missions, put in 0 effort themselves and then do whatever with the influence/favor earned by others?

I play another game that allows even the one person guilds to get their perks etc. It is just really slow progress. My one person guild in that game has level 2 perks when the top guilds with max amount of people have level 47 perks. This way everyone is happy and I don’t see any reason why something like that wouldn’t work here too.