Guild Wars 2

Dawdler.8521:

New players having “only” GW2 would not have this content, it cost extra, yes? Or are new players getting living story season 2 for free as well? Is this baked into HoT?

One more free bonus …..why not, more newcomers will be incencitized to come
But remember: it’s a free bonus but only for new accounts.

papry.8096:

Mooncaller.9634:

That problem is exacerbated by the refund offered which includes a termination of your account and non-refund of gem purchases according to threads / screen shots on Reddit.

Come on. It’s was obvious that the core game would have an offer with HoT. Anet never say otherwise………..

Mooncaller.9634:

Then there’s also the issue of the purchase page stating: “Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)”
No mention here (https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/94582027-Heart-of-Thorns-Pre-Purchase-FAQ) that this does not include a new copy of core for a returning customer.
No mention here (https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/94582027-Heart-of-Thorns-Pre-Purchase-FAQ) that this does not include a new copy of core for a returning customer.

But it’s a FREE BONUS not a purchase, kitten.

Mooncaller.9634:

From a legal contract perspective I would change this: “Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)” to "Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game for new accounts created with this purchase) [emphasis added] ASAP. Under contract ArenaNet is offering Core + Expansion to every purchaser and only delivering Expansion to existing users. This opens them up to a class action law suit in the US, probably in Europe too considering the consumer protections.

FAQ is perfectly clear: It’s include in it. They don’t change the FAQ….

Mooncaller.9634:

to the expansion in terms of content and perceived value.

I’m sure gonna have 1K hour of content; I mean jumping mushroom, gliders, a new class that you can create once you have 140 gold.

Mooncaller.9634:

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a bigger marketing snafu on an expansion.

I’m sure Anet will be fine. They will have ton of new players.

Hopefully, although on Day 1 in Marketing and Sales 100 you learn it’s easier to keep a customer than it is to find a new one, and they are betting the bank on market expansion in an ALREADY crowded MMORPG field.

Gonna chime in here, and likely repeat a lot of what has already been said.

For me, it comes down to a number of issues.

1) Veteran players being treated as an inferior group compared to new players.

This isn’t the first time I’ve felt that is the case, and likely these feelings are not purely down to how things have been handled here, but over the past year or so. New players will be getting a great deal, no question. While players have enjoyed 3 years of fun (or maybe not, depending on opinion etc), there is something that feels really off about a basic expansion package that is full of value for new players (a good thing), but then offers very very little for those who have stuck by and supported the game for so long. I think i remember reading somewhere even the bigger better editions aren’t a huge bonus relative to what the price is and what you get next to what it is to get them via gem purchases. Especially given a new class coming, it makes sense to add a new character slot. Otherwise players may have to make a choice between having to pay extra just to enjoy a large draw point of the expansion, else delete a character they already have, that is potentially full of history and progress for them. Either through sacrificing many hours of progress, or paying extra above the expansion price, it just feels like a hidden cost that shafts the players. At the very least, I feel there should be a character slot at the basic level, much in the same way GW1 campaigns added slots to enjoy the new professions.

Note: While I am arguing for a character slot at the basic level, let me be clear that I am not doing so from a sense of “entitlement” or a selfishness. The reason i can make that claim is that while I believe an extra slot is a easy thing to add, it wouldn’t be possible to expand the maximum number of slots to reflect that. 64 will be the limit still, and likely always be. Out of good RNG fortune, and a lot of investing in gems via real cash, I already have 64 slots. Getting one at the basic expansion will have precisely zero benefit to me. I just think it should be done out of a sense of fair play.

2) New players in the last few months are kittened over.

A fair number of players may have bought the game in recent sales, under the stated premise that the core game is needed for HoT. Then came the very suspicious changing of said FAQ, and announcing the core game is bundled with new accounts. Those new players will understandably feel cheated, having bought the game under a particular premise, then Anet pulling a bait and switch. It is good of Anet to offer refunds for a larger period because of this, but to take advantage of this deal, instead of being taken for a ride with the sales based on the earlier premise, you have to lose your account, and all progress you made. Seems a bit of a punishment for those who bought the game in good faith purely because it was advertised as required to get the expansion. Utterly disgusting business practice.

3) I’m not convinced I’m getting the right amount of bang for my buck.

This to me isn’t a case of dodgy practice and communication, more I don’t feel informed enough to make the decision at the moment. This is less a go at Anet, and more just a statement of where I feel i am with this. Based on what I’ve seen so far, and heard so far, I’m not sure I’m getting enough content to justify the asking price. I love the game, but I’m not willing to shell out any amount of money for a nebulous amount of content. My solution to this is very simply, I’ll wait and see what the content turns out to be, and if it seems value to me at release, I’ll buy it, else I’ll wait for a sale to get it at a price I feel justifies the content I’m getting.

papry.8096:

Come on. It’s was obvious that the core game would have an offer with HoT. Anet never say otherwise………..

Yeah and people first had no idea when HoT would be put for sale first, so wanted to play the core GW2 a moment until then. And they were perfectly ok to eat up the small extra cost they’d have to pay for missing the new player bundle. Provided the returning players weren’t going to get an horribly overpriced deal XD

4) Communication. AKA The Famous Arenanet Ostrich Defense.

So much of the problem is Anet don’t demonstrate they are truly listening. I know, based on other issues I’ve had particularly over the last 18 months, i have no faith in Arenanet truly paying attention. Words are not enough, and any goodwill i had towards the company at the start of GW2’s life (which was bountiful then) has long since been spent, making me very cynical about the company and how they view us mere consumers. Anet need to start taking part in this discussion, and indeed leading it. They need to be proactive, not remain silent on the single biggest issue of the day, while at the same time trying to promote their Guild Hall news and stuff while not even acknowledging there are concerns and anger. Anet genuinely seem to want to just bury heads in the sand and hope it stops by us wearing ourselves down, and I urge the elements of the community who do feel this way to keep the pressure up, both in terms of rhetoric and ultimately bby closing purse strings to the point Anet realise they done goofed. Money is now the only language the people making these decisions understand. The truth is, the better way is to be upfront, be open and make players feel valued. Its a lot easier to justify openin up the wallet to a game and a company where you feel you are getting value and when you feel valued. I can’t remember if I read it in a private conversation I had with a Anet rep, or out in the forums or both, but I know Anet community team have been disheartened before that people still bang on about communication after they made efforts to change their ways and make more positive progress. While I understand and agree it can be a downer to see the same criticisms over and over, I’d suggest if they are still recurring, as they are here, they haven’t been addressed to as good a standard as they may believe. The veil of secrecy needs to be lifted. if you want to show players you respect them, you need to include them, and part of that is talking to us about the things that matter to us. A happy playerbase is one that spends money because they are happy to do it. An unhappy one kicks up a stink and closes off some revenue streams (their own cash). I’m sure Anet will respond. Some day. I ain’t convinced they’ll say anything meaningful to address our complaints and concerns.

papry.8096:

But it’s a FREE BONUS not a purchase, kitten.

FAQ is perfectly clear: It’s include in it. They don’t change the FAQ….

Please find, post, show, language on purchase page or the FAQs that support this position.
The scroll over on Basic does include: “A game serial code for account creation or upgrade for the Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion and the award winning Guild Wars 2 core game.” which is still ambiguous based upon the placements of the “or” and “and” in that.
It’s ambiguous enough that there are threads here where people have filed complaints because they did not receive their included Guild Wars 2 core game.
I would probably change the scroll over on basic to read: “A game serial code for account creation including the award winning Guild Wars 2 core game and the Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion; or an upgrade for an existing account including the Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion.” in order to be clear as to what is being offered and sold.

Smallclaw.1650:

You aren’t paying more because the prepurchase tiers include the core game. The core game is included as a Free Bonus. I repeat: FREE BONUS. As was officially stated above, since many of you either failed to read it or failed to comprehend it.

Whether the tiers include the base game or not will not alter the prices.

I’ll sell you an air conditioning for 10,000$ and as a FREE BONUS i’ll add my car.
This is how this free bonus works in this case.

mrstealth.6701:

You’ll get the new wvw map, overhaul, and stronghold without HoT. Masteries I don’t expect to see without HoT, as most are related to HoT zones.

Finally some good news.
Thanks.

Wolfheart.1879:

4) Communication. AKA The Famous Arenanet Ostrich Defense.

We got an answer of gayle at page 68.
We know that Ruby got called ingame.
last but the best: we have an amazing reminder of the situation on the main post.

They are communicating plenty on the issue.

LOL i loged in to forum after almost a year for this. we have to buy game again!? i bought game as a present to friend few times but i am not buying it for myself again. dont call it free gift. I have around 3000 hours in gw2 but for 50bucks i am buying Witcher 3 or new Batman except expansion map is size of core game, which is not.

also i will spend more time in eso online with all their grind. they have f**** horses which gw2 dont have even with expansion.

fair price would be like 25 for expansion at most, but after this 50 price i will be waiting for a price to drop to 10. i am sorry i ever spend money on gems to support anet instead of buying them with in game gold

Considering that Colin posted in another thread hours ago but chose to ignore this issue, I’m becoming more and more convinced that Regina’s answer is final.

They might count on next week’s update to distract us. Maybe they think they can only reach their sales targets by charging vets $60 to access all HoT content, and were expecting us all to shrll out $100 like good fanboys and -girls.

In reality many of us will end up buying the expac anyway. I think a lot of goodwill has been lost though. The continued silence gives the impression they don’ t value that.

Losing goodwill will likely have consequences though. Vets that habitually supported the game through gemstore purchases will think twice in the future.

They’ll hit Anet where it hurts.

Right in the gems.

I’m gonna wait for the standalone to come out. Otherwise my dollars will stay seated in my wallet.

Smallclaw.1650:

You aren’t paying more because the prepurchase tiers include the core game. The core game is included as a Free Bonus. I repeat: FREE BONUS. As was officially stated above, since many of you either failed to read it or failed to comprehend it.

Whether the tiers include the base game or not will not alter the prices.

What is failed to be understood is nothing is free. In order to make it free they have to account for there roi to ncsoft and investors. They wanted it that price to fund that return of investment. Making players feel like there are the only demographic supporting the sale. Furthermore, HoT is not there main source of profit. Gem store is. it is going to hurt anet if they market the bundle this way. Promoting new players is great but how loyal to the game will new players theehen you know players been around since head start are a sure way for future profit. I’m all for new players but not like this. I support the game and almost all for what anet does but this one was a mistake all the wayfrom transparency to veterans and that 10 $ sale. For anet to be aware that this stops here is good for me

papry.8096:

Wolfheart.1879:

4) Communication. AKA The Famous Arenanet Ostrich Defense.

We got an answer of gayle at page 68.
We know that Ruby got called ingame.
last but the best: we have an amazing reminder of the situation on the main post.

They are communicating plenty on the issue.

Plenty does not mean 2 generic answers in a few forum threads or someone saying something in-game. Stop defending their kitten.

papry.8096:

Wolfheart.1879:

4) Communication. AKA The Famous Arenanet Ostrich Defense.

We got an answer of gayle at page 68.
We know that Ruby got called ingame.
last but the best: we have an amazing reminder of the situation on the main post.

They are communicating plenty on the issue.

Ruby in game is not wider communication. As for Gaile, I appreciate the comments that these are being passed on, but the thing is, that is precisely what was said in the traits mega thread multiple times. A promise to pass stuff on, while certainly the first step, is not good communication. it doesn’t tell us if we’ll get a substantive response from someone in the know, it doesn’t say that our views will be considered in a possible re-evaluation (not the same as just changing in response, but at least taking views on board with this)

Don’t get me wrong, I understand that is all communication team can say at this point, but I think both said team and us as benefits would be greatly relieved if someone who was involved with the decision actually came out to speak on the issue in a substantive manner. That thus far has not happened in any way. Substantive and good communication about the issue raised is what is needed, and thus far what is lacking. While it is right that they consider responses and give them, they need to be able to react quickly as well. There is widespread outrage, and widespread gaming media coverage by this point. To not directly address the issues not only is disrespectful, but for every hour this goes on, their reputation suffers. It behooves them to be a bit more than “we are listening” at this point.

Wolfheart.1879:

Gonna chime in here, and likely repeat a lot of what has already been said.

For me, it comes down to a number of issues.

1) Veteran players being treated as an inferior group compared to new players.

This isn’t the first time I’ve felt that is the case, and likely these feelings are not purely down to how things have been handled here, but over the past year or so. New players will be getting a great deal, no question. While players have enjoyed 3 years of fun (or maybe not, depending on opinion etc), there is something that feels really off about a basic expansion package that is full of value for new players (a good thing), but then offers very very little for those who have stuck by and supported the game for so long. I think i remember reading somewhere even the bigger better editions aren’t a huge bonus relative to what the price is and what you get next to what it is to get them via gem purchases. Especially given a new class coming, it makes sense to add a new character slot. Otherwise players may have to make a choice between having to pay extra just to enjoy a large draw point of the expansion, else delete a character they already have, that is potentially full of history and progress for them. Either through sacrificing many hours of progress, or paying extra above the expansion price, it just feels like a hidden cost that shafts the players. At the very least, I feel there should be a character slot at the basic level, much in the same way GW1 campaigns added slots to enjoy the new professions.

Note: While I am arguing for a character slot at the basic level, let me be clear that I am not doing so from a sense of “entitlement” or a selfishness. The reason i can make that claim is that while I believe an extra slot is a easy thing to add, it wouldn’t be possible to expand the maximum number of slots to reflect that. 64 will be the limit still, and likely always be. Out of good RNG fortune, and a lot of investing in gems via real cash, I already have 64 slots. Getting one at the basic expansion will have precisely zero benefit to me. I just think it should be done out of a sense of fair play.

2) New players in the last few months are kittened over.

A fair number of players may have bought the game in recent sales, under the stated premise that the core game is needed for HoT. Then came the very suspicious changing of said FAQ, and announcing the core game is bundled with new accounts. Those new players will understandably feel cheated, having bought the game under a particular premise, then Anet pulling a bait and switch. It is good of Anet to offer refunds for a larger period because of this, but to take advantage of this deal, instead of being taken for a ride with the sales based on the earlier premise, you have to lose your account, and all progress you made. Seems a bit of a punishment for those who bought the game in good faith purely because it was advertised as required to get the expansion. Utterly disgusting business practice.

3) I’m not convinced I’m getting the right amount of bang for my buck.

This to me isn’t a case of dodgy practice and communication, more I don’t feel informed enough to make the decision at the moment. This is less a go at Anet, and more just a statement of where I feel i am with this. Based on what I’ve seen so far, and heard so far, I’m not sure I’m getting enough content to justify the asking price. I love the game, but I’m not willing to shell out any amount of money for a nebulous amount of content. My solution to this is very simply, I’ll wait and see what the content turns out to be, and if it seems value to me at release, I’ll buy it, else I’ll wait for a sale to get it at a price I feel justifies the content I’m getting.

And the worst thing is, how on earth can we be smarter than marketing personal that’s getting salary to plan releases like this? I mean, take your three points.

Pre-order:
€35 HoT expansion only (HoT+slot)
€65 deluxe version (HoT+GW2+slot+goodies)
€90 ultimate version (HoT+GW2+slot+even more goodies)

After HoT release:
€45 HoT (HoT+GW2+slot)
€75 deluxe version (HoT+GW2+slot+goodies),
€100 ultimate version (HoT+GW2+slot+even more goodies)

There. I fixed it. Everyone good. Well except the ones that still dont know the content of HoT. I cant fix that lol.

Ephemiel.5694:

papry.8096:

Wolfheart.1879:

4) Communication. AKA The Famous Arenanet Ostrich Defense.

We got an answer of gayle at page 68.
We know that Ruby got called ingame.
last but the best: we have an amazing reminder of the situation on the main post.

They are communicating plenty on the issue.

Plenty does not mean 2 generic answers in a few forum threads or someone saying something in-game. Stop defending their kitten.

You don’t like basic PR answer; I think that this is the only way Anet communicate….

papry.8096:

Wolfheart.1879:

4) Communication. AKA The Famous Arenanet Ostrich Defense.

We got an answer of gayle at page 68.
We know that Ruby got called ingame.
last but the best: we have an amazing reminder of the situation on the main post.

They are communicating plenty on the issue.

Regina’s answer was posted before this blew up. Gaile’s ’We’re listening’ has not been followed up by any further comment from someone in a position to make a definite statement.

It’s the forum equivalent of saying you’ll go talk to your supervisor, and never returning to the customer.

Pretty Pixie.8603:

papry.8096:

Wolfheart.1879:

4) Communication. AKA The Famous Arenanet Ostrich Defense.

We got an answer of gayle at page 68.
We know that Ruby got called ingame.
last but the best: we have an amazing reminder of the situation on the main post.

They are communicating plenty on the issue.

Regina’s answer was posted before this blew up. Gaile’s ’We’re listening’ has not been followed up by any further comment from someone in a position to make a definite statement.

It’s the forum equivalent of saying you’ll go talk to your supervisor, and never returning to the customer.

I’m sure that Anet will never do that.
They are an amazing company that always listen to their customer.
They always answer very quick.

Dawdler.8521:

Wolfheart.1879:

Snip

And the worst thing is, how on earth can we be smarter than marketing personal that’s getting salary to plan releases like this? I mean, take your three points.

Pre-order:
€35 HoT expansion only (HoT+slot)
€65 deluxe version (HoT+GW2+slot+goodies)
€90 ultimate version (HoT+GW2+slot+even more goodies)

After HoT release:
€45 HoT (HoT+GW2+slot)
€75 deluxe version (HoT+GW2+slot+goodies worth the difference),
€100 ultimate version (HoT+GW2+slot+even more goodies)

There. I fixed it. Everyone good. Well except the ones that still dont know the content of HoT. I cant fix that lol.

indeed, there are solutions, but will depends if the number crunchers feel they’ll get more money from it. I hope if they stick to this course, their revenue suffers for it. As someone said, only way to get Anet to listen is to grab them by their gems.

As for not knowing content of HoT, I think most of that comes through things like their Guild Hall recently and things like that. For me, it is too early to prepurchase purely because I don’t feel I know enough yet. In that, perhaps delaying the prepurchase would have been advisable. Or getting more solid info out sooner. Really nothing needs to be done there, as no one is forced to buy at any point, and people will buy when they become confident they will get enough out of the price to justify it. For some thats now, for others thats down the line. It’s the one we have most impact over as we vote with our wallet. As such, I feel that is less of an issue next to the others.

papry.8096:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

papry.8096:

Wolfheart.1879:

4) Communication. AKA The Famous Arenanet Ostrich Defense.

We got an answer of gayle at page 68.
We know that Ruby got called ingame.
last but the best: we have an amazing reminder of the situation on the main post.

They are communicating plenty on the issue.

Regina’s answer was posted before this blew up. Gaile’s ’We’re listening’ has not been followed up by any further comment from someone in a position to make a definite statement.

It’s the forum equivalent of saying you’ll go talk to your supervisor, and never returning to the customer.

I’m sure that Anet will never do that. They are an amazing company that always listen to their customer.

As proven by a 4k thread on a major issue to many players with no follow up for 3 days.

I’d like some of what you’re smoking, sweety.

Nothing new to add, except my general agreement with the annoyance at whichever department(s) approved of HoT’s pre-purchase marketing.

Summarizing my opinions: Two groups of people (new/old players) should not be valued differently. It should be more obvious (very obvious) that existing players do not get a new account with the pre-purchase. The price isn’t too unreasonable though. As it is, my friend and I will not be pre-purchasing because of the poor presentation.

no arena you are making a big mistake you forgot you older players playing gw2 since the release the price is really too high. it was really a bad idea to include the orginal game with HOT. We really hope you are going to change that price for older players.

Dawdler.8521:

And the worst thing is, how on earth can we be smarter than marketing personal that’s getting salary to plan releases like this? I mean, take your three points.

We are not smarter than them; They just think that we are dumber than that.

Pretty Pixie.8603:

I’d like some of what you’re smoking, sweety.

After 3 days of fallacy; just chillin….needed to more precisely.

papry.8096:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

papry.8096:

Wolfheart.1879:

4) Communication. AKA The Famous Arenanet Ostrich Defense.

We got an answer of gayle at page 68.
We know that Ruby got called ingame.
last but the best: we have an amazing reminder of the situation on the main post.

They are communicating plenty on the issue.

Regina’s answer was posted before this blew up. Gaile’s ’We’re listening’ has not been followed up by any further comment from someone in a position to make a definite statement.

It’s the forum equivalent of saying you’ll go talk to your supervisor, and never returning to the customer.

I’m sure that Anet will never do that.
They are an amazing company that always listen to their customer.
They always answer very quick.

See the original trait mega thread, and tell me how quick they answered there. Heck, after a year we still don’t have the change live (although are about to). Anet have demonstrably shown they aren’t always capable of answering real quick. And the length of time that took demonstrate to a number that they aren’t always interested in listening. The one time I remember real quick action lately was the debacle over the change to the gem conversion interface. And then it seemed they were more concerned with action because of pressures from gaming media (we got Anet’s statement about changes from those sites a clear hour or more before they released it through their own channels).

Pretty Pixie.8603:

papry.8096:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

papry.8096:

Wolfheart.1879:

4) Communication. AKA The Famous Arenanet Ostrich Defense.

We got an answer of gayle at page 68.
We know that Ruby got called ingame.
last but the best: we have an amazing reminder of the situation on the main post.

They are communicating plenty on the issue.

Regina’s answer was posted before this blew up. Gaile’s ’We’re listening’ has not been followed up by any further comment from someone in a position to make a definite statement.

It’s the forum equivalent of saying you’ll go talk to your supervisor, and never returning to the customer.

I’m sure that Anet will never do that. They are an amazing company that always listen to their customer.

As proven by a 4k thread on a major issue to many players with no follow up for 3 days.

I’d like some of what you’re smoking, sweety.

OK…at the risk of getting flamed, I’m gonna say it….this whole thing is, what, 3 days old and people are screaming that there has been no official answer…I expect that ANet is being careful about the “official” reply in hopes of not making a bad situation worse. While I’m unhappy about the marketing surrounding HoT, I think peeps saying a lack of response from ANet for 3 days equates to ANet doesn’t care is, I think, a bit unrealistic. I’m reserving judgment for a bit…if no official response is forthcoming by, say the middle of next week, I’ll rethink my position. It could also be that ANet may be legally constrained by whatever agreements they have with NCSoft. And don’t get me started on what I think about NCSoft.

sanelson.4028:

Jesus Christ… I can’t even write a constructive comment right now due to all the rage I’m feeling…I’ll just come back later.

Well this is the generation of people that feel entitled to having things for free or paying less too get more. Making a good game costs money as people that want this game too continue we should be happy to do what we can to keep it going. Imagine if anet said we have decided not to release HOT and are shutting down the gw2 servers because of financial trouble would people flock to help?

AnClar.1304:

And don’t get me started on what I think about NCSoft.

Please proceed. Please!!!!!

I think there has to be a balance between rushing out a statement, and dithering too long certainly. But with any huge blow up like this, which has ramifications financially (the news isn’t confined to just these forums or gw players now), they need to say something soon. An interim statement could just be a guarantee that there will be a statement addressing these issues. At least then they commit themselves to engaging, even if they aren’t in a position to yet.

Are things really that poor at Anet in regards to consistency and office/business management? I get developers can be chaotic at times but first anet get’s shy about deadlines switching to ‘when it’s ready’ to avoid flame wars, but most professionals in all walks of life really do keep to a healthy deadline all the time, why Anet is the exception is beyond me, but now it seems Anet is either incapable or uninterested in reducing any damage by making at least a statement on this issue. Both are worrying prospects.

If there is anyone at ArenaNet that needs a customer feedback to improve process or kickstart a change in policy and processes please use this. If this was my work, we would have had the investors biting off our heads to make a statement.

It really does seem like Anet can’t make it’s mind up on how to run itself as either super involved or really aloof and silent. The longer you leave this in the oven, the more it’s going to burn.

Pyriel.4370:

If there is anyone at ArenaNet that needs a customer feedback to improve process or kickstart a change in policy and processes please use this. If this was my work, we would have had the investors biting off our heads to make a statement.

ANet’s major financial partner is NCSoft, a Korean based corporation. I would imagine that most of NCSoft’s investors are not all that close to GW2 and it’s community. I think it’s a safe bet to say that all NCSoft’s investors give a rap about is NCSoft’s bottom line. It looks as though ANet is doing whatever it takes to make the sales and revenue targets that NCSoft sets.

So that’s where ANet’s bread is buttered. They’ve been a cash cow for NCSoft, and they’ll continue to exist as long as they stay that way. If the GW2 user community gets hurt along the way I suspect that NCSoft will view it as minor collateral damage unless and until ANet’s revenues tank.

hype train became hate train.

Frightlight.3796:

sanelson.4028:

Jesus Christ… I can’t even write a constructive comment right now due to all the rage I’m feeling…I’ll just come back later.

Well this is the generation of people that feel entitled to having things for free or paying less too get more. Making a good game costs money as people that want this game too continue we should be happy to do what we can to keep it going. Imagine if anet said we have decided not to release HOT and are shutting down the gw2 servers because of financial trouble would people flock to help?

That would be funny, since GW2 made more money in the 1st quarter of this year than they’ve made at any time since 2012. And if you download and read the the reports linked in the article below, you’ll see that it’s a LOT of money… Without a subscription, GW2 still managed to be the 3rd most profitable MMO per account through May 2015, and that’s on a list that includes MOBAs like LoL & DotA2 (GW2 placed above both of them, btw.)

http://massivelyop.com/2015/05/13/ncsofts-first-quarter-earnings-growth-for-guild-wars-2-further-deflation-for-wildstar/

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Considering that Colin posted in another thread hours ago but chose to ignore this issue, I’m becoming more and more convinced that Regina’s answer is final.

They might count on next week’s update to distract us. Maybe they think they can only reach their sales targets by charging vets $60 to access all HoT content, and were expecting us all to shrll out $100 like good fanboys and -girls.

In reality many of us will end up buying the expac anyway. I think a lot of goodwill has been lost though. The continued silence gives the impression they don’ t value that.

Losing goodwill will likely have consequences though. Vets that habitually supported the game through gemstore purchases will think twice in the future.

They’ll hit Anet where it hurts.

Right in the gems.

Exactly. Meanwhile s bunch of new players who have not shown loyalty are trusted to take up the slack. Keep in mind that these new players just got a free game

AnClar.1304:

Pyriel.4370:

If there is anyone at ArenaNet that needs a customer feedback to improve process or kickstart a change in policy and processes please use this. If this was my work, we would have had the investors biting off our heads to make a statement.

ANet’s major financial partner is NCSoft, a Korean based corporation. I would imagine that most of NCSoft’s investors are not all that close to GW2 and it’s community. I think it’s a safe bet to say that all NCSoft’s investors give a rap about is NCSoft’s bottom line. It looks as though ANet is doing whatever it takes to make the sales and revenue targets that NCSoft sets.

people have a bad habit of blaming ncsoft for every bad decison we hear. Look at their other games, you will find that those games prices are generally fair, and they havent charged 50 dollars or the equivalent for an expansion.

this business model is developed and maintained by arenanet, almost everything else ncsoft does is subscription based or free to play.

phys.7689:

AnClar.1304:

Pyriel.4370:

If there is anyone at ArenaNet that needs a customer feedback to improve process or kickstart a change in policy and processes please use this. If this was my work, we would have had the investors biting off our heads to make a statement.

ANet’s major financial partner is NCSoft, a Korean based corporation. I would imagine that most of NCSoft’s investors are not all that close to GW2 and it’s community. I think it’s a safe bet to say that all NCSoft’s investors give a rap about is NCSoft’s bottom line. It looks as though ANet is doing whatever it takes to make the sales and revenue targets that NCSoft sets.

people have a bad habit of blaming ncsoft for every bad decison we hear. Look at their other games, you will find that those games prices are generally fair, and they havent charged 50 dollars or the equivalent for an expansion.

this business model is developed and maintained by arenanet, almost everything else ncsoft does is subscription based or free to play.

EAnet didn’t really have much say in the price of this expansion, it was decided for them several weeks before the expansion was even announced at a stock analysts meeting in Korea: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3adxq0/the_real_reason_for_hots_50_price_tag/

phys.7689:

people have a bad habit of blaming ncsoft for every bad decison we hear. Look at their other games, you will find that those games prices are generally fair, and they havent charged 50 dollars or the equivalent for an expansion.

this business model is developed and maintained by arenanet, almost everything else ncsoft does is subscription based or free to play.

Not saying ANet is blameless, but without NCSoft, ANet would either have to find another financial partner or cease to exist. Ultimate responsibility though vests in the parent/major financial backer entity.

Day 4 of the Siege of Thorns eh..

Hi guys and dolls! Did I miss anything. A bunch of people telling us to lay off aNet, the poor buggers need the money and I’ll be giving them my money no matter what I say?

I got a grand in my cupboard that says I won’t touch HoT until this debacle is resolved in a manner I find acceptable. It’s my money. Like they keep saying to anyone who bought gems, “No gun at my head!” kitten straight.

Fix or Fallout. That’s how I see it.

Otokomae.9356:

EAnet didn’t really have much say in the price of this expansion, it was decided for them several weeks before the expansion was even announced at a stock analysts meeting in Korea: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3adxq0/the_real_reason_for_hots_50_price_tag/

That was a prediction, and a bit of an indirect recommendation. Influential, maybe, but not “decided for them.”

AnClar.1304:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

papry.8096:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

papry.8096:

Wolfheart.1879:

4) Communication. AKA The Famous Arenanet Ostrich Defense.

We got an answer of gayle at page 68.
We know that Ruby got called ingame.
last but the best: we have an amazing reminder of the situation on the main post.

They are communicating plenty on the issue.

Regina’s answer was posted before this blew up. Gaile’s ’We’re listening’ has not been followed up by any further comment from someone in a position to make a definite statement.

It’s the forum equivalent of saying you’ll go talk to your supervisor, and never returning to the customer.

I’m sure that Anet will never do that. They are an amazing company that always listen to their customer.

As proven by a 4k thread on a major issue to many players with no follow up for 3 days.

I’d like some of what you’re smoking, sweety.

OK…at the risk of getting flamed, I’m gonna say it….this whole thing is, what, 3 days old and people are screaming that there has been no official answer…I expect that ANet is being careful about the “official” reply in hopes of not making a bad situation worse. While I’m unhappy about the marketing surrounding HoT, I think peeps saying a lack of response from ANet for 3 days equates to ANet doesn’t care is, I think, a bit unrealistic. I’m reserving judgment for a bit…if no official response is forthcoming by, say the middle of next week, I’ll rethink my position. It could also be that ANet may be legally constrained by whatever agreements they have with NCSoft. And don’t get me started on what I think about NCSoft.

On the contrary, Companies are ussually rather quick with their damage control because it eh…. ‘controls the damage’. Breetoplay, a writer at MassivelyOP was astounded by their lack of response, and she sees this all the time.

Otokomae.9356:

phys.7689:

AnClar.1304:

Pyriel.4370:

If there is anyone at ArenaNet that needs a customer feedback to improve process or kickstart a change in policy and processes please use this. If this was my work, we would have had the investors biting off our heads to make a statement.

ANet’s major financial partner is NCSoft, a Korean based corporation. I would imagine that most of NCSoft’s investors are not all that close to GW2 and it’s community. I think it’s a safe bet to say that all NCSoft’s investors give a rap about is NCSoft’s bottom line. It looks as though ANet is doing whatever it takes to make the sales and revenue targets that NCSoft sets.

people have a bad habit of blaming ncsoft for every bad decison we hear. Look at their other games, you will find that those games prices are generally fair, and they havent charged 50 dollars or the equivalent for an expansion.

this business model is developed and maintained by arenanet, almost everything else ncsoft does is subscription based or free to play.

EAnet didn’t really have much say in the price of this expansion, it was decided for them several weeks before the expansion was even announced at a stock analysts meeting in Korea: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3adxq0/the_real_reason_for_hots_50_price_tag/

not really, people are looking at that info incorrectly, that firm is responsible for consulting with the developers and making projections on the stock value based on what they have been told.

Point being they made those projections because anet told ncsoft that those were their expectations months ago.

Hammersmash Ureface.2650:

Day 4 of the Siege of Thorns eh..

Hi guys and dolls! Did I miss anything. A bunch of people telling us to lay off aNet, the poor buggers need the money and I’ll be giving them my money no matter what I say?

pretty much that, only the media is catching on
some staff members comment on the forums on topics totally unrelated to this (I’d guess they are forbidden to talk about this right now)

anyways don’t expect a statement soon; I remember when players were having massive lag issues it took about two weeks for them to say what’s going on

Otokomae.9356:

EAnet didn’t really have much say in the price of this expansion, it was decided for them several weeks before the expansion was even announced at a stock analysts meeting in Korea: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3adxq0/the_real_reason_for_hots_50_price_tag/

It doesnt matter,if they really,truly HAVE to reach a quote…they could have add intresting bonuses to justify the HIGH price:
“Yea we are asking u tot $ but u get also tot in return”

The 50 $ im supposed to pay ARE REAL the goodies they could have add into each single bundle are Virtual. By setting no intresting bonuses whatsoever thats how much they care for veterans.Just the fact i shuld spend 10 more $ to buy an additional character slot its enuf for me to go and spend my money elswhere.

With GW1, we got an entire new continent and two new classes for $50. With this, it looks like 1 or 2 maps and one class. Eye of the North was $30, as it was not a standalone. I think there’d be less uproar if Heart of Thorns were $30. ANet needs to either justify this price to the player base or lower the price. Most of my friends with GW2 are NOT planning on getting HoT.

Gulesave.5073:

Otokomae.9356:

EAnet didn’t really have much say in the price of this expansion, it was decided for them several weeks before the expansion was even announced at a stock analysts meeting in Korea: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3adxq0/the_real_reason_for_hots_50_price_tag/

That was a prediction, and a bit of an indirect recommendation. Influential, maybe, but not “decided for them.”

Absolutely true. Nexon, who just acquired a 15% stake in NCSoft 2 years ago for $685 million from founder Kim Taek-Jin, could have easily said “You know what, let’s jsut ignore the yearly projections that were made available to every financial analyst in the world by the most powerful investment bank in the country where we’re based. Just sell the game for $25 if that what you think it’s worth, who cares if we lose $300 million when the stock tanks because it couldn’t meet yearly projections?”

Of course, that’s NOT what they did… it could be a coincidence that the expansion came out at $50. It’s not, of course. But it’s still fun to sit around and theorize about how someone at ArenaNet independantly came up with that exact same number as the value of the expansion all by itself, with no extras tacked on.

phys.7689:

not really, people are looking at that info incorrectly, that firm is responsible for consulting with the developers and making projections on the stock value based on what they have been told.

Point being they made those projections because anet told ncsoft that those were their expectations months ago.

This was not a consultation meeting with NCSoft, Daewoo Securities came up with those numbers on their own, as stated in the document, based on GW1 sales figures. And whether Anet or NCSoft believed they could sell 2 million copies of this expac @ $50 each or not isn’t even relevant; once that projection was made, it was practically set-in-stone that $50 would be the base price, no matter how much Anet or anyone else thought the content was actually worth.

Otokomae.9356:

Gulesave.5073:

Otokomae.9356:

EAnet didn’t really have much say in the price of this expansion, it was decided for them several weeks before the expansion was even announced at a stock analysts meeting in Korea: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3adxq0/the_real_reason_for_hots_50_price_tag/

That was a prediction, and a bit of an indirect recommendation. Influential, maybe, but not “decided for them.”

Absolutely true. Nexon, who just acquired a 15% stake in NCSoft 2 years ago for $685 million from founder Kim Taek-Jin, could have easily said “You know what, let’s jsut ignore the yearly projections that were made available to every financial analyst in the world by the most powerful investment bank in the country where we’re based. Just sell the game for $25 if that what you think it’s worth, who cares if we lose $300 million when the stock tanks because it couldn’t meet yearly projections?”

Of course, that’s NOT what they did… it could be a coincidence that the expansion came out at $50. It’s not, of course. But it’s still fun to sit around and theorize about how someone at ArenaNet independantly came up with that exact same number as the value of the expansion all by itself, with no extras tacked on.

phys.7689:

not really, people are looking at that info incorrectly, that firm is responsible for consulting with the developers and making projections on the stock value based on what they have been told.

Point being they made those projections because anet told ncsoft that those were their expectations months ago.

This was not a consultation meeting with NCSoft, Daewoo Securities came up with those numbers on their own, as stated in the document, based on GW1 sales figures. And whether Anet or NCSoft believed they could sell 2 million copies of this expac @ $50 each or not isn’t even relevant; once that projection was made, it was practically set-in-stone that $50 would be the base price, no matter how much Anet or anyone else thought the content was actually worth.

daewoo securities made predictions on gw2 for multiple years that was innacurate (multiple times said an expansion was coming each year in fact)

this time ncsoft gave them some real numbers/timelines. And i feel like ncsoft got their projections from anet, because ncsoft really isnt in a position to have any idea how much anet will be able to sell without anet themselves providing them numbers, metrics and data.

i must say with a bag of popcorn this could easily be my new favorite tv drama lets call it the “the woes of a player” i must say im always highly amused when i read the forums here

I just want to feel like I’m getting value for the price, and when a lot of the content is being given freely to people who don’t purchase this expac I feel I’m getting jacked on the price for significantly less value, and expected to cover the cost of the content for everyone who doesn’t buy it.

Nexon should be Exxon

… and it’s obvious that A-net has to do something to sweeten the deal or many of those 2 million customers will stay on the sidelines. I know I am not forking over $50 + $10 for a slot on the basis of what we’ve seen.

It would not take much to get me to buy. 800 gems or a free slot would probably do it for me.