Guild Wars 2

Beast Sos.1457:

Maybe maybe not.

Thanks for at least admitting that.

I can’t begin to tell you how many preorders of expansions I have bought for mmos that presented themselves as one thing and ended up being entirely different than what I expected. Expansions are always a crap shoot, imo.

Especially if you preorder one. After they’re released…..not so much.

Teon.5168:

Beast Sos.1457:

Teon.5168:

Beast Sos.1457:

Skeletor.9360:

Come now 60 dollars is well worth it. After all people were screaming for new content and not bug fixes etc. You have to pay for what you ask for right? The exapnsion is super good if you WvW and PvP.

It’s been 3 years….OF COURSE people are going to be asking for more content. Just because Anet took ages to release new REAL content doesnt mean we should be charged more. WvW and PvP updates are actually going in without the expansion so you dont need it for those.

That is only your opinion. I think there has been plenty of “real” content released since I bought GW2 34 months ago. And I know lots of others who also feel that way.

Only my opinion? I know more than enough people who feel the same way. LS season 1 was a mess, expect the end which I admit was fun,season 2 has some nice boss mechanics but not much content and some QL updates, some for the better and some not so much….almost forgot to mention SW and DT which were fun maps SW more so, but we are talking about 3 years here so that is quite lackluster.

And that is just their opinion, too. Just like the friends that I know who think there has been plenty of new ‘real content’ is just their and my opinion as well.

Please don’t pull some sort of “I am sorely offended” card when someone calls you on stating your opinion and trying to present it as concrete fact.

The phrase “real content” is purely subjective, and the meaning of that phrase varies depending on who you talk to. There is nothing wrong with your opinion……just don’t try to overstate it like it is some sort of well known “fact”, when it is far from that.

Jmo, of course.

When did I state that my claims are concrete facts? Do I really have to say imo on a subject like this. When people talk about content in games there “statements” are always subjective and if you felt that I was stating that my opinion was concrete then thats your fault for reading what you wanted to read and not what I wrote.

Grimm.2685:

Sadly, Arena Nets generous offer toward new players has mutated into this bile filled cesspool of greed, entitlement and miss understanding. Those that cannot understand that this was an act of generosity and not a slap in the face to all existing players are not worthy of any freebies.

ANet is no charity. Their “generous” offer is still meant to make them win money.

Well I’m not a charity either. I’m happy for new players to get a good deal. But for fairness I want a good deal too. I don’t need the same deal, just something at least slightly equivalent or that feels like it.

Beast Sos.1457:

Teon.5168:

Beast Sos.1457:

Teon.5168:

Beast Sos.1457:

Skeletor.9360:

Come now 60 dollars is well worth it. After all people were screaming for new content and not bug fixes etc. You have to pay for what you ask for right? The exapnsion is super good if you WvW and PvP.

It’s been 3 years….OF COURSE people are going to be asking for more content. Just because Anet took ages to release new REAL content doesnt mean we should be charged more. WvW and PvP updates are actually going in without the expansion so you dont need it for those.

That is only your opinion. I think there has been plenty of “real” content released since I bought GW2 34 months ago. And I know lots of others who also feel that way.

Only my opinion? I know more than enough people who feel the same way. LS season 1 was a mess, expect the end which I admit was fun,season 2 has some nice boss mechanics but not much content and some QL updates, some for the better and some not so much….almost forgot to mention SW and DT which were fun maps SW more so, but we are talking about 3 years here so that is quite lackluster.

And that is just their opinion, too. Just like the friends that I know who think there has been plenty of new ‘real content’ is just their and my opinion as well.

Please don’t pull some sort of “I am sorely offended” card when someone calls you on stating your opinion and trying to present it as concrete fact.

The phrase “real content” is purely subjective, and the meaning of that phrase varies depending on who you talk to. There is nothing wrong with your opinion……just don’t try to overstate it like it is some sort of well known “fact”, when it is far from that.

Jmo, of course.

When did I state that my claims are concrete facts? Do I really have to say imo on a subject like this. When people talk about content in games there “statements” are always subjective and if you felt that I was stating that my opinion was concrete then thats your fault for reading what you wanted to read and not what I wrote.

Your statement "Only my opinion? I know more than enough people who feel the same way " pretty much confirmed what I was already thinking.

I am not sure how else I could have interpreted that…….but my apologies if that is not what you meant.

Teon.5168:

Beast Sos.1457:

Maybe maybe not.

Thanks for at least admitting that.

I can’t begin to tell you how many preorders of expansions I have bought for mmos that presented themselves as one thing and ended up being entirely different than what I expected. Expansions are always a crap shoot, imo.

Especially if you preorder one. After they’re released…..not so much.

The thing with this is that I feel like the amount of content that should be there to justify the price tag is just not. If there was more content I would have pre-ordered by now. I love gw2 but I just cant blindly throw my money at Anet, especially when I feel like they are pulling a sneaky cash grab move by not adding a character slot with the standard addition, but thats a discussion for another time.

Teon.5168:

Beast Sos.1457:

Teon.5168:

Beast Sos.1457:

Teon.5168:

Beast Sos.1457:

Skeletor.9360:

Come now 60 dollars is well worth it. After all people were screaming for new content and not bug fixes etc. You have to pay for what you ask for right? The exapnsion is super good if you WvW and PvP.

It’s been 3 years….OF COURSE people are going to be asking for more content. Just because Anet took ages to release new REAL content doesnt mean we should be charged more. WvW and PvP updates are actually going in without the expansion so you dont need it for those.

That is only your opinion. I think there has been plenty of “real” content released since I bought GW2 34 months ago. And I know lots of others who also feel that way.

Only my opinion? I know more than enough people who feel the same way. LS season 1 was a mess, expect the end which I admit was fun,season 2 has some nice boss mechanics but not much content and some QL updates, some for the better and some not so much….almost forgot to mention SW and DT which were fun maps SW more so, but we are talking about 3 years here so that is quite lackluster.

And that is just their opinion, too. Just like the friends that I know who think there has been plenty of new ‘real content’ is just their and my opinion as well.

Please don’t pull some sort of “I am sorely offended” card when someone calls you on stating your opinion and trying to present it as concrete fact.

The phrase “real content” is purely subjective, and the meaning of that phrase varies depending on who you talk to. There is nothing wrong with your opinion……just don’t try to overstate it like it is some sort of well known “fact”, when it is far from that.

Jmo, of course.

When did I state that my claims are concrete facts? Do I really have to say imo on a subject like this. When people talk about content in games there “statements” are always subjective and if you felt that I was stating that my opinion was concrete then thats your fault for reading what you wanted to read and not what I wrote.

Your statement "Only my opinion? I know more than enough people who feel the same way " pretty much confirmed what I was already thinking.

I am not sure how else I could have interpreted that…….but my apologies if that is not what you meant.

Then you saying you and the people you know who think there was a lot of real content added was also you stating a “concrete” fact.

When you said “only your opinion” you made it sound like no one else felt that way. That is why I said what I said.

stof.9341:

Grimm.2685:

Sadly, Arena Nets generous offer toward new players has mutated into this bile filled cesspool of greed, entitlement and miss understanding. Those that cannot understand that this was an act of generosity and not a slap in the face to all existing players are not worthy of any freebies.

ANet is no charity. Their “generous” offer is still meant to make them win money.

Well I’m not a charity either. I’m happy for new players to get a good deal. But for fairness I want a good deal too. I don’t need the same deal, just something at least slightly equivalent or that feels like it.

Very well said. That is a good way of putting my feelings as well.

I agree that they are generous to give the core game for free to new players, but why not give a character slot to the loyal veterans, in comparison the core game is way expensive than a slot.

The curse of the char slot :p

ANet should have predicted the backlash because SO many players said they wanted a char slot bundled with HoT so that they can try the Revenant without having to pay extra. Also because it’s VERY common industry practice to do so.

But all that ANet saw in their greedy eyes was how many players wanted, no needed a char slot! And so they used that as a level to push them towards the more expensive packages.

Unfortunately for them, the more desirable an item, the more kittened off people are when you deprive them of it.

Here is an example of what ANet should have said :

“And for $50 you get HoT including the base game for new players! And for those of you that already got the game, well the Revenant is such an important part of the expansion pack, we really wouldn’t want any of you to be unable to try them as soon as you start the game, so you get instead 1 char slot when you buy HoT, and 2 if you take one of the more expensive packages”

Why new players don’t “need” that slot? Cause as soon as they finish installing the game, they already got 5 free slots and they can try any char they want instantly. It’s mostly a “battery not included” issue here.

I decided to show the information from the HoT pre-purchase page and FAQ to my mother, who has been done work in the main offices wholesalers and retailers for over 30 years. Everything from a billing clerk to now running her own business.

Her reaction to the information on the HoT per-purchase page was confusion because of the lack of clarity. And the reaction to the actual facts of who does/doesn’t get the core was simply “that’s illegal”.

It certainly wasn’t a surprise to me, as I feel the same way. I do have some knowledge of the subject from working with her in recent years, but not decades of experience.

Beast Sos.1457:

Teon.5168:

Beast Sos.1457:

Teon.5168:

Beast Sos.1457:

Teon.5168:

Beast Sos.1457:

Skeletor.9360:

Come now 60 dollars is well worth it. After all people were screaming for new content and not bug fixes etc. You have to pay for what you ask for right? The exapnsion is super good if you WvW and PvP.

It’s been 3 years….OF COURSE people are going to be asking for more content. Just because Anet took ages to release new REAL content doesnt mean we should be charged more. WvW and PvP updates are actually going in without the expansion so you dont need it for those.

That is only your opinion. I think there has been plenty of “real” content released since I bought GW2 34 months ago. And I know lots of others who also feel that way.

Only my opinion? I know more than enough people who feel the same way. LS season 1 was a mess, expect the end which I admit was fun,season 2 has some nice boss mechanics but not much content and some QL updates, some for the better and some not so much….almost forgot to mention SW and DT which were fun maps SW more so, but we are talking about 3 years here so that is quite lackluster.

And that is just their opinion, too. Just like the friends that I know who think there has been plenty of new ‘real content’ is just their and my opinion as well.

Please don’t pull some sort of “I am sorely offended” card when someone calls you on stating your opinion and trying to present it as concrete fact.

The phrase “real content” is purely subjective, and the meaning of that phrase varies depending on who you talk to. There is nothing wrong with your opinion……just don’t try to overstate it like it is some sort of well known “fact”, when it is far from that.

Jmo, of course.

When did I state that my claims are concrete facts? Do I really have to say imo on a subject like this. When people talk about content in games there “statements” are always subjective and if you felt that I was stating that my opinion was concrete then thats your fault for reading what you wanted to read and not what I wrote.

Your statement "Only my opinion? I know more than enough people who feel the same way " pretty much confirmed what I was already thinking.

I am not sure how else I could have interpreted that…….but my apologies if that is not what you meant.

Then you saying you and the people you know who think there was a lot of real content added was also you stating a “concrete” fact.

Actually, if you’ll go back and reread my post……I did not say the above…..I said….

“And that is just their opinion, too. Just like the friends that I know who think there has been plenty of new ‘real content’ is just their and my opinion as well.

And I will leave it at that…..we’re both obviously misinterpreting each other to some extent.

mrstealth.6701:

I decided to show the information from the HoT pre-purchase page and FAQ to my mother, who has been done work in the main offices wholesalers and retailers for over 30 years. Everything from a billing clerk to now running her own business.

Her reaction to the information on the HoT per-purchase page was confusion because of the lack of clarity. And the reaction to the actual facts of who does/doesn’t get the core was simply “that’s illegal”.

It certainly wasn’t a surprise to me, as I feel the same way. I do have some knowledge of the subject from working with her in recent years, but not decades of experience.

I wouldn’t say “illegal”, I would say “fine use of a loop-hole”.

matrix seishin.5312:

I wouldn’t say “illegal”, I would say “fine use of a loop-hole”.

It’s all fun and games until someone goes to prison :p The fine line between “illegal” and “loop-hole”

Also, on a pure PR point of view, when your company does something, then customers complain they are treated unfairly. If your answer is “it’s not illegal, it’s a loop-hole!” you might find yourself with fewer customers in the short term.

matrix seishin.5312:

mrstealth.6701:

I decided to show the information from the HoT pre-purchase page and FAQ to my mother, who has been done work in the main offices wholesalers and retailers for over 30 years. Everything from a billing clerk to now running her own business.

Her reaction to the information on the HoT per-purchase page was confusion because of the lack of clarity. And the reaction to the actual facts of who does/doesn’t get the core was simply “that’s illegal”.

It certainly wasn’t a surprise to me, as I feel the same way. I do have some knowledge of the subject from working with her in recent years, but not decades of experience.

I wouldn’t say “illegal”, I would say “fine use of a loop-hole”.

Indeed. I can’t imagine for a second that their legal team would allow them to walk into a seemingly obvious legal cesspit. Could be the case, but I doubt it. That said, if the FAQ and prepurchase page do not mention what they have since clarified here, then that is indeed dicey and ambiguous. Many of the problems are caused by things being unintentionally taken in several ways.

I’m more towards the view that what is being done here is morally wrong (if such labels can be applied to a “mere game”, perhaps a softer way of wording is better but not sure of what) than legally wrong.

Dear Anet………..

stof.9341:

matrix seishin.5312:

I wouldn’t say “illegal”, I would say “fine use of a loop-hole”.

It’s all fun and games until someone goes to prison :p The fine line between “illegal” and “loop-hole”

Also, on a pure PR point of view, when your company does something, then customers complain they are treated unfairly. If your answer is “it’s not illegal, it’s a loop-hole!” you might find yourself with fewer customers in the short term.

Wait… are you suggesting I’m defending them?! It’s simply an observation. They are legally obliged to provide information about the purchase. As far as they see it, that’s it. Whether the information is clear to the consumer, they don’t care apparently. Which is wrong. The unclear information, the lack of a response – they don’t speak good about ANet and NCSoft.

I want only two things:
1. Lower the price of the standard pack to 35 euro
2. Give a new character slot with the standard pack

Who is with me?

matrix seishin.5312:

mrstealth.6701:

I decided to show the information from the HoT pre-purchase page and FAQ to my mother, who has been done work in the main offices wholesalers and retailers for over 30 years. Everything from a billing clerk to now running her own business.

Her reaction to the information on the HoT per-purchase page was confusion because of the lack of clarity. And the reaction to the actual facts of who does/doesn’t get the core was simply “that’s illegal”.

It certainly wasn’t a surprise to me, as I feel the same way. I do have some knowledge of the subject from working with her in recent years, but not decades of experience.

I wouldn’t say “illegal”, I would say “fine use of a loop-hole”.

I think the situation the FAQ change and marketing of the core game over the last 6 months is more clearly false advertisement. I’d still consider the wording/lack of clarity in the HoT editions as fasle advertisement as well, but that is closer to the grey zone.

Customers considering purchase of GW2 were blatantly mislead by the HoT FAQ and Anet’s marketing to think that they were required to already own GW2 before buying HoT. US false advertising statutes only require the potential to deceive customers in a manner that could influence their purchasing decisions. I’d say telling us that we needed to already own GW2 to upgrade to HoT clearly influenced customer’s decisions to buy GW2.

I want more prepurchase bonuses too (which apply to all players, vet and new alike) :o A kittenty title and access to the beta is too little. But I can live without those.

Especially considering ANet asks us a lot of faith in making that purchase with still quite a few unknowns on the quantity of content along with the total release date mystery.

Teon.5168:

Beast Sos.1457:

Teon.5168:

Beast Sos.1457:

Teon.5168:

Beast Sos.1457:

Teon.5168:

Beast Sos.1457:

Skeletor.9360:

Come now 60 dollars is well worth it. After all people were screaming for new content and not bug fixes etc. You have to pay for what you ask for right? The exapnsion is super good if you WvW and PvP.

It’s been 3 years….OF COURSE people are going to be asking for more content. Just because Anet took ages to release new REAL content doesnt mean we should be charged more. WvW and PvP updates are actually going in without the expansion so you dont need it for those.

That is only your opinion. I think there has been plenty of “real” content released since I bought GW2 34 months ago. And I know lots of others who also feel that way.

Only my opinion? I know more than enough people who feel the same way. LS season 1 was a mess, expect the end which I admit was fun,season 2 has some nice boss mechanics but not much content and some QL updates, some for the better and some not so much….almost forgot to mention SW and DT which were fun maps SW more so, but we are talking about 3 years here so that is quite lackluster.

And that is just their opinion, too. Just like the friends that I know who think there has been plenty of new ‘real content’ is just their and my opinion as well.

Please don’t pull some sort of “I am sorely offended” card when someone calls you on stating your opinion and trying to present it as concrete fact.

The phrase “real content” is purely subjective, and the meaning of that phrase varies depending on who you talk to. There is nothing wrong with your opinion……just don’t try to overstate it like it is some sort of well known “fact”, when it is far from that.

Jmo, of course.

When did I state that my claims are concrete facts? Do I really have to say imo on a subject like this. When people talk about content in games there “statements” are always subjective and if you felt that I was stating that my opinion was concrete then thats your fault for reading what you wanted to read and not what I wrote.

Your statement "Only my opinion? I know more than enough people who feel the same way " pretty much confirmed what I was already thinking.

I am not sure how else I could have interpreted that…….but my apologies if that is not what you meant.

Then you saying you and the people you know who think there was a lot of real content added was also you stating a “concrete” fact.

Actually, if you’ll go back and reread my post……I did not say the above…..I said….

“And that is just their opinion, too. Just like the friends that I know who think there has been plenty of new ‘real content’ is just their and my opinion as well.

And I will leave it at that…..we’re both obviously misinterpreting each other to some extent.

Misinterpretations can lead to the dumbest arguments. It would be best to leave it at that. haha

The Inherent Flaw in the Entitlement Argument

There seem to be two big veins to this argument, one being that those players who have bought the game earlier got two to three years worth of updates and increased content for “free”. The other is that gem purchasers made by players have nothing to do with any entitlement to future discount, content, or features in an expansion.

The “free” content people speak of are the updates, balancing, living story, and so on.

I would have to say you’re highly naive if you think any of this was done as a “reward” or for the love of the players.
GW2 contains a gem store, a mechanism for converting cash into usable in-game currency. In order to sustain a steady income stream from the gem store this meant that the game had to remain fun, balanced, interesting, and replayable / have playable additions. Otherwise the game would quickly have lost very substantial amounts of its population to other games (which, it likely already has).
But, all of this is economically motivated, the content is not “free” it is developed and rolled out in a calculated attempt to maintain a steady income stream through the gem store. If ArenaNet was operating at a loss staff would have been cut and this content would not be developed. No game / company is immune to economics.

And yes ArenaNet did not force anyone to buy gems. No one was required to. But, it would be disengenuous to say the game was not designed to encourage gem purchases. For example, the game comes with eight professions and five character slots, for any player that wants to try / create one of each profession that is an additional $30 USD purchase during their time playing a game. New accounts come with a single bank slot, each expanded tab is an additional $7.50 USD. New character come with 5 bag slots, any expansion to this is an additional $5 USD. Unlimited harvestin / logging / mining tools cost $12.50 USD currently. Now, yes, if you farm or dungeon like mad you might make enough gold to satisfy all your gem needs, but my guess is most people do buy gems.

For example, my wife and I probably each spend $20-$30 USD on gems every three months or so. This meens that the revenue stream from us is equivalent to a $6.66 – $10 per month subscription fee.

Simply put you cannot discount the value of this revenue stream when discussing any additions to content so far. There may be players who have never spent any money on gems, which was their choice (and I’m not criticizing that) but any content additions and updates since the release of this game have all been bought, paid for, and subsidized by the player base’s use of the gem store and the revenue stream that it established.

Arguing otherwise is sticking your head in the sand.

Wolfheart.1879:

matrix seishin.5312:

mrstealth.6701:

I decided to show the information from the HoT pre-purchase page and FAQ to my mother, who has been done work in the main offices wholesalers and retailers for over 30 years. Everything from a billing clerk to now running her own business.

Her reaction to the information on the HoT per-purchase page was confusion because of the lack of clarity. And the reaction to the actual facts of who does/doesn’t get the core was simply “that’s illegal”.

It certainly wasn’t a surprise to me, as I feel the same way. I do have some knowledge of the subject from working with her in recent years, but not decades of experience.

I wouldn’t say “illegal”, I would say “fine use of a loop-hole”.

Indeed. I can’t imagine for a second that their legal team would allow them to walk into a seemingly obvious legal cesspit. Could be the case, but I doubt it. That said, if the FAQ and prepurchase page do not mention what they have since clarified here, then that is indeed dicey and ambiguous. Many of the problems are caused by things being unintentionally taken in several ways.

I’m more towards the view that what is being done here is morally wrong (if such labels can be applied to a “mere game”, perhaps a softer way of wording is better but not sure of what) than legally wrong.

I see one flaw in this argument.
One would think their marketing team / pricing team wouldn’t let something like this whole kittenstorm occur and would have carefully researched / discussed this with the player base before having something blow up in their face like this (especially considering the bad press this is now receiving throughout the gaming world).

I’d say there is some mismanagement occurring up top, who knows whether legal was consulted, listened to, involved, or botched up as bad as marketing?

Given the pages (90 as I write) and reads (over 30k), the PCGamer comments and the Reddit stuff… would you not think that, by now, a response would have been posted by Anet? Granted it’s the weekend but, even so…

Oh, and, for the record, I’m in the HoT only please camp; don’t need the whole game again thankee.

dragonfighter.4098:

I understand the fact NC Soft told Anet they had to sell a million copies but the way they are going about it is a slap in the face to their loyal players. I feel they should just drop the $50 package cause Heart of Thorns is the new core. Drop the other 2 packages to $50 and $75. most likely they would get their million copies sold quick then. We are all upset with Anet but the true bad guy is NC Soft. Anet just simply chose a bad package offer that really upset their loyal fans that’s all. They may just need to re think it. They may have forgotten the economy and job situation isn’t all that great for a lot of us. I have been looking at all the facts so i can decide if i want to spend what little extra income i have on the game. I feel if Anet would drop the words core game more people would actually buy the expansion. Hell they screwed the core game anyway when the shortened the story line anyway.The true guild wars community whom play regular are just used to getting a couple of toon slots with expansion. Its hard for us not to get what has always been a given. They always create stand alone expansions. So maybe if they take a little time and re think and we all nicely give ideas they may come around and see it our way. And if they need to sell a million copies then they need to change their marketing plan.

The TRUE bad guy here, as always, is still NEXON, although NCSoft’s CEO Kim Taek-Jin is complicit. For a little insight as to what’s to what’s going with what amounts to the corporate takeover of NCSoft by the makers of Maplestory, you can read this Forbes article from a month ago: http://www.forbes.com/sites/gracechung/2015/04/29/ncsoft-south-koreas-no-2-online-gaming-company-under-siege/

I have 16 character slots and 12 bank tabs, so obviously I’m more than willing to support a team making a good product.
This, however, is a huge screw-up. First they charge full price for a fraction of a game, then they want you to drop MORE money on a new slot! The only word that comes to mind is “sleazy”.
You let me down, Anet. I hope you rethink this.

HoT: The expansion that killed the game.

GW2: August 28, 2012 – June 2015. RIP.

Khristophoros.7194:

The Rice Hat Samurai.5348:

Ephemiel.5694:

The Rice Hat Samurai.5348:

waSte.8640:

Khristophoros.7194:

I am willing to pay $19.99 for an account upgrade that has the HoT content and includes a character slot. I am not interested in your products if you’re trying to scam me.

My thoughts exactly. Not buying at that pricepoint especially kitten off no character slot. LOL!

How is it a scam? Have you ever bought an expansion for an MMO before? News flash, they’re all $50+.

Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward is $40. Shut up.

Guild Wars: Factions, $50, Guild Wars: Nightfall, $50. No. Look at EVERY expansion for World of Warcraft then come back.

Factions and Nightfall were entire games. They each had as much content as the original game.

If HoT has an entire new region as big as Tyria then it’s worth 50 bucks. Those are the kind of standards I expect from Anet.

Exactly my thoughts there…

Paying $50 for an “Expansion” is perfectly fine. As long as that expansion lives up to the standards.

Just 4 examples that make it seem like we’re over paying for this “Expansion”:
- Guild halls were standard in GW1. First of all: why does it take 3 years to have GW2 Guild halls implemented and what about GvG’s? This should be the core of the game and shouldn’t be taken into account for setting the GW2 expansion price ArenaNet – you owed us this one for free.

- Both Factions and Nightfall had a whole new world map to explore with at least 2-4 major cities and plenty of areas/outposts -> Okay so we get a new area, inside an already existing map, and looking at the size of the maguuma jungle on the map it’s only one tenth of a new world map that we’ve seen in Nightfalls/Factions. Okay so you add some vertical playgrounds, maybe that will add up to being half the size of a world map ? (We’re yet to find out).

- Factions/Nightfalls gave us multiple new PvP maps and systems such as Alliance Battles/Hero Battles for example -> Okay so we get Stronghold, 1 map, with a game-mode which kind of looks like GvG which is another thing which the game lacked right from the start – and should be a standard content update rather than being something expansion worthy.

- Two new classes per expansion and at least 300-500 extra skills to choose from ->Okay we get a Revenant and yes we get specializations, meaning some extra utilities and weapon skills, but nowhere near the two new classes nor the 300-500 skills like in Nightfall/Factions.

My two cents…

OP, you complain about having to pay $10 for the slot, then dismiss the way that you can get it for free.

Your argument was?

Hidden Dragon.7523:

- Factions/Nightfalls gave us multiple new PvP maps and systems such as Alliance Battles/Hero Battles for example -> Okay so we get Stronghold, 1 map, with a game-mode which kind of looks like GvG which is another thing which the game lacked right from the start – and should be a standard content update rather than being something expansion worthy.

The funny (and sad) part is that Stronghold isn’t even part of Heart of Thorns. It’s been added along with HoT’s release, but it’s for everyone. The gametype doesn’t even get its own queue, so any time any player queues for PvP they can end up in a stronghold game.

The same goes for the new WvW borderland, which is being marketed as a HoT feature, despite being available to all players.

So there’s two major “HoT features” that aren’t even part of HoT at all. They are free updates for all players.

The Siege of Thorns continues. What day is it now? 4th? 5th? Don’t let up. They’re going to send a kitten out sooner or later..

Hammersmash Ureface.2650:

The Siege of Thorns continues. What day is it now? 4th? 5th? Don’t let up. They’re going to send a kitten out sooner or later..

That June 23rd trait patch drama will overshadow all this Price drama. Watch…

Beast Sos.1457:

on top of the few hundred I invested in the game(gems to gold). And no I didnt need the gold

This is why you’re having trouble, you’ve basicly chosen to buy the game for £250 and built up a belief that you’re an investor. You need to try not to spend money on things you don’t want, otherwise you’ll get a bad feeling later (your brain will see it as a waste, then that you’ve been betrayed, but really you just shouldn’t have thrown your money away on gold you didn’t need).

Lynx Raven Raide.2764:

OP, you complain about having to pay $10 for the slot, then dismiss the way that you can get it for free.

Your argument was?

Clearly you didnt read the post….

Coulter.2315:

Beast Sos.1457:

on top of the few hundred I invested in the game(gems to gold). And no I didnt need the gold

This is why you’re having trouble, you’ve basicly chosen to buy the game for £250 and built up a belief that you’re an investor. You need to try not to spend money on things you don’t want, otherwise you’ll get a bad feeling later (your brain will see it as a waste, then that you’ve been betrayed, but really you just shouldn’t have thrown your money away on gold you didn’t need).

People take kitten way to literal…I’m obviously not a investor. Lmao. The point was I had faith in Anet that they wouldnt pull a sneaky move like this but I was wrong. They will make at least a couple million by not adding the extra character slot.

Knighthonor.4061:

Hammersmash Ureface.2650:

The Siege of Thorns continues. What day is it now? 4th? 5th? Don’t let up. They’re going to send a kitten out sooner or later..

That June 23rd trait patch drama will overshadow all this Price drama. Watch…

Straw that broke the camels back?

“Popcorn pre-purchase now available!” (*Box not included on subsequent purchases)

Hammersmash Ureface.2650:

Knighthonor.4061:

Hammersmash Ureface.2650:

The Siege of Thorns continues. What day is it now? 4th? 5th? Don’t let up. They’re going to send a kitten out sooner or later..

That June 23rd trait patch drama will overshadow all this Price drama. Watch…

Straw that broke the camels back?

“Popcorn pre-purchase now available!” (*Box not included on subsequent purchases)

It’s going to happen, you know it.

Nobody is even talking about the concerns I brought up regarding Guild Halls. And this new drama will overshadow the price drama.

Beast Sos.1457:

Lynx Raven Raide.2764:

OP, you complain about having to pay $10 for the slot, then dismiss the way that you can get it for free.

Your argument was?

Clearly you didnt read the post….

I did read the post, and re-read it again. You invalidated your own argument by dismissing the secondary option of the one thing you are complaining about. By rights, to technically enjoy all aspects of the original game you need 15 character slots, given the 3 choices per race for storyline in the first part. If you dismiss that, then you still need 8 to play every profession. If you are going to dismiss that one, you will in turn dismiss your own argument because saying you need a Rev to play HoT is like saying you need all 8 profs to play the base game…

matrix seishin.5312:

In that case I guess the only way to make them listen is to STOP… but not with the posts. I declare Monday, 22th of June the day we stop playing GW2. When they see the massive drop in player base, they will listen. Spread the word. Even if it is only for 1 day, let’s just stop, all of us. Stop buying in-game stuff, stop their in-game economy, stop their player base, blow the forum, blow the system.

you take too much time:
I stopped playing (by that I ‘m not launching the game).
As long Anet doesn’t give us a correct package; I’m not buying anything from them anymore.

If I go to the supermarket and see a pack of youghurts and the label says “1$ for one get 3 for free” I know each of them is worth 25 cents, simple as that. I already own GW2 I don’t want to buy it again.

And that’s not going into the price itself, which from what I know about HoT’s content so far it really doesn’t look like a good deal.

I want a list of features that are actually part of HoT, so I’ll start with what we know already. Please correct anything I’ve missed, or that we have hard evidence belongs in a different category.

Features that we are certain will require a HoT purchase
-Revenant Class
-Elite specializations
-Access to the Heart of Maguuma region, which so far is only known to include Verdant Brink
-Masteries relating to the Heart of Maguuma region
-Continuation of the Living Story in the Heart of Maguuma region

Features that likely require a HoT purchase, but might still be available to everyone.
-Guild halls (we know a leader/some members have to go claim it in HoT areas)
-non-Heart of Maguuma masteries (Fractal Mastery, Precursor crafting)

Features that will not require a HoT purchase, and will be available to everyone
-Stronghold PvP mode
-New WvW borderland
-Specialization system (excluding elite specs) and overhaul of trait/skill unlocking system (we get this stuff in 3 days)

Lynx Raven Raide.2764:

Beast Sos.1457:

Lynx Raven Raide.2764:

OP, you complain about having to pay $10 for the slot, then dismiss the way that you can get it for free.

Your argument was?

Clearly you didnt read the post….

I did read the post, and re-read it again. You invalidated your own argument by dismissing the secondary option of the one thing you are complaining about. By rights, to technically enjoy all aspects of the original game you need 15 character slots, given the 3 choices per race for storyline in the first part. If you dismiss that, then you still need 8 to play every profession. If you are going to dismiss that one, you will in turn dismiss your own argument because saying you need a Rev to play HoT is like saying you need all 8 profs to play the base game…

Do you not value your time? I sure as hell do. First off the core game, like I said many times before, the core game has way more content than HoT can dream of having. Missing out on those few things is nothing compared to missing out on the Rev in HoT. If Anet expects me to pay $50 for the expansion and then spend hours grinding gold to buy a character slot, that should have came with my purchase, only shows Anet can give 2 kittens about the players time.

To me this is very simple to fix.

Leave the pricing as it is, and when installed to an existing account, add 800 gems.

That way new players can get on, and veterans that don’t have a spare slot can use the gems for it, those that do have a spare slot can buy something else from the gemstore or just turn it into gold for whatever.

Obviously the DELUXE and Ultimate editions would need to be increased pro rata.

Judging on the huge backlash this is not just going to go away and Anet/NC should speak up soon to quell the tide of discontent that could cost them alot more players.

I am sure that a move like this would be very favorably seen by most.

Yes, there are going to be some who are never happy, but I would guess the majority would be happy enough.

Beast Sos.1457:

Teon.5168:

Beast Sos.1457:

Teon.5168:

Beast Sos.1457:

Teon.5168:

Beast Sos.1457:

Teon.5168:

Beast Sos.1457:

Skeletor.9360:

Come now 60 dollars is well worth it. After all people were screaming for new content and not bug fixes etc. You have to pay for what you ask for right? The exapnsion is super good if you WvW and PvP.

It’s been 3 years….OF COURSE people are going to be asking for more content. Just because Anet took ages to release new REAL content doesnt mean we should be charged more. WvW and PvP updates are actually going in without the expansion so you dont need it for those.

That is only your opinion. I think there has been plenty of “real” content released since I bought GW2 34 months ago. And I know lots of others who also feel that way.

Only my opinion? I know more than enough people who feel the same way. LS season 1 was a mess, expect the end which I admit was fun,season 2 has some nice boss mechanics but not much content and some QL updates, some for the better and some not so much….almost forgot to mention SW and DT which were fun maps SW more so, but we are talking about 3 years here so that is quite lackluster.

And that is just their opinion, too. Just like the friends that I know who think there has been plenty of new ‘real content’ is just their and my opinion as well.

Please don’t pull some sort of “I am sorely offended” card when someone calls you on stating your opinion and trying to present it as concrete fact.

The phrase “real content” is purely subjective, and the meaning of that phrase varies depending on who you talk to. There is nothing wrong with your opinion……just don’t try to overstate it like it is some sort of well known “fact”, when it is far from that.

Jmo, of course.

When did I state that my claims are concrete facts? Do I really have to say imo on a subject like this. When people talk about content in games there “statements” are always subjective and if you felt that I was stating that my opinion was concrete then thats your fault for reading what you wanted to read and not what I wrote.

Your statement "Only my opinion? I know more than enough people who feel the same way " pretty much confirmed what I was already thinking.

I am not sure how else I could have interpreted that…….but my apologies if that is not what you meant.

Then you saying you and the people you know who think there was a lot of real content added was also you stating a “concrete” fact.

Actually, if you’ll go back and reread my post……I did not say the above…..I said….

“And that is just their opinion, too. Just like the friends that I know who think there has been plenty of new ‘real content’ is just their and my opinion as well.

And I will leave it at that…..we’re both obviously misinterpreting each other to some extent.

Misinterpretations can lead to the dumbest arguments. It would be best to leave it at that. haha

Completely agree. Cheers!

Lynx Raven Raide.2764:

I did read the post, and re-read it again. You invalidated your own argument by dismissing the secondary option of the one thing you are complaining about. By rights, to technically enjoy all aspects of the original game you need 15 character slots, given the 3 choices per race for storyline in the first part. If you dismiss that, then you still need 8 to play every profession. If you are going to dismiss that one, you will in turn dismiss your own argument because saying you need a Rev to play HoT is like saying you need all 8 profs to play the base game…

You don’t ‘need’ a Rev to play the expansion. But it is a major part of it and direct access is not included. If you want to play what you paid for (the rev) you need to get a character slot, which is going to be a sacrifice on the part of the customer.

Either you delete a character (and lose the birthday counter, bound gear, the value of hair/makeover kits, etc) and lose access to the elite spec for that class, you pay extra, or have to grind gold to use something you already paid for.

On top of that is the feeling by many that they’re not getting value for money from the expac, highlighting the loss of the slot.

Poor marketing.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Alright, I can see the gripe about not getting a character slot with the expansion, considering we are getting a new class.

However, a new slot isn’t a ‘standard’ feature with the base expansion for most games. Take WoW for example, WotLK introduced the Death Knight, but didn’t offer an expansion to the number of characters you could have on a given server (BogOtter brought up this point in his youtube discussion about the expansion price).

Yes, it would be nice if they tossed one in as a ‘bonus’ in the standard pack. They could potentially still do this, but I highly doubt it would happen. There would be even more of a kittenstorm if they did.

Uhm. Literally every single other Guild Wars (outside of prophecies and GW2, both of which were the vanilla base game) game Anet has ever released gave away free character slots with the purchase even for the most basic version.

Factions? Yep. Got a free character slot when I purchased that game.
Nightfall? Yep. Got a free character slot when I purchased that game.
Eye of the North? Yep. Got a free character slot when I purchased that game.

I feel like this is the only relevant thing we can actually compare the situation too.

Traditionally Anet has given away character slots when they release a new product. So there is far more precedent for Anet giving character slots away with their games than there is for them not doing it.

Until now, of course.

Edit: Oh? And the kicker, those products were not only cheaper but offered far more content, at least just going by what they’ve shown and told us so far. And not only that but it didn’t take them 3 kittenin years to produce those pruducts too.

Beast Sos.1457:

If I want to play all the content in the expansion I’m going to have to pay $60. Why might you ask, because if I want to play all the content that is going to be released I have to buy another character slot. Don’t come on and tell me, “well you can convert gold to gems!”. All that is saying is Anet doesnt give 2 kittens about my time even though I’m spending $50 on top of the few hundred I invested in the game(gems to gold). And no I didnt need the gold I just wanted to support a company that I thought had the players best interests in mind, which, evidently, is far from the truth.

You thought a subsidiary of a publicly owned corporation cared about giving you free stuff? And you gave them money for things you didn’t need expecting them to reciprocate? Did you have a contract? I still find it laughable that players assumed Anet needed cash when they were making money from the cash shop…Anet never considered an expansion because you guys were giving them the revenue they needed. Gem buyers are the reason we didn’t get an expansion for 3 years.

Gw2 did come out with only 5 character slots but the amount of content that we got justified that. The amount of content we are getting, from what we have seen, is not nearly worth the price tag so we cant compare the two.

If Anet sells fewer HoT pre-purchases than expected, they’ll spend more time on development. This is the reason there’s been no release date, if they sell a million copies now, they can just give you whatever is ready and not refine/add content. Why do you think GW2 shipped with such a lack of features? It’s because they sold so many copies it wasn’t necessary to add more.
http://techland.time.com/2012/08/28/guild-wars-2-sales-one-million-pre-served-record-400000-playing-at-once/

Can we just all be perfectly honest with ourselves here?

I suspect, the bulk of the complaints REALLY centers around the base edition not getting a bonus character slot. Let’s cut through the noise and just say it outright.

“Veteran” players want a kittening character slot, because they’ve filled all their slots and don’t feel they should have to buy another one on top of the expansion to play a Revenant. They feel this is cheap because GW1 handed out slots to play with in each expansion.

So can we just SAY THAT? Can we stop trying to couch it in bullkitten so that we don’t sound like “entitled brats?” Rather than run around in stupid circles over legality, quibbling semantics over whether or not the core game is actually “free” or “not free”… just say what we want here.

Arena.net. We players want a kittening character slot in the basic package. And ya know what? Most of us don’t even give a kitten if “new” players get that bonus character slot too (this entire fairness bullkitten is just another way to avoid sounding entitled to a character slot).

Yes, there’s still going to be those perpetually kitten that will never shut up about whatever perceived slight has triggered their rage bone or will always whine about the cash shop being the devil that is ruining gaming… but they’ll be relegated to the background noise again.

But put a bonus slot in the basic package, and this entire kittenstorm vanishes over kittening night. I promise you. Your problem is now solved. Smack some heads together at NCSoft and get it done.

Beast Sos.1457:

Gw2 did come out with only 5 character slots but the amount of content that we got justified that. The amount of content we are getting, from what we have seen, is not nearly worth the price tag so we cant compare the two.

When GW2 was available for pre-purchase, we knew roughly about as much about it as we do today about HoT. That is: we didn’t know much. We were told how many profs and races, we were told how many zones (but we had no idea how large).

So, I agree, we can’t compare the two.

So why not wait until you learn enough about HoT and then decide if you think it’s worth it or not?

Personally, I have had 100s of hours of fun over the last 3 years after spending a mere US$75 (for the mid-tier original game). I expect that for US$50, I’ll get 100s of hours of fun from HoT. (Not to mention: the Living Story Season #3 will be included in the price.)

Now, it might not be the same bargain deal that GW2 was 3 years ago. Still, that’s a far cry from saying that the $50 price tag is too much, with or without character slots.

chemiclord.3978:

Can we just all be perfectly honest with ourselves here?

Simple I don’t like to be treated as an under consumer. So anet give me a fair deal.
That fair deal being in the form a character slot/gems/ i do not care.
But not that crap when I don’t get what is described in the product description.
Because: *you already have an account.

What coming next ?
You can’t buy this armor on the cashshop you don’t have enough medium armor character.
You can’t have this mini on the cashshop you already own too much.
kittenmit.

Beast Sos.1457:

If I want to play all the content in the expansion I’m going to have to pay $60. Why might you ask, because if I want to play all the content that is going to be released I have to buy another character slot. Don’t come on and tell me, “well you can convert gold to gems!”. All that is saying is Anet doesnt give 2 kittens about my time even though I’m spending $50 on top of the few hundred I invested in the game(gems to gold). And no I didnt need the gold I just wanted to support a company that I thought had the players best interests in mind, which, evidently, is far from the truth.

You thought a subsidiary of a publicly owned corporation cared about giving you free stuff? And you gave them money for things you didn’t need expecting them to reciprocate? Did you have a contract?

I still find it laughable that players assumed Anet needed cash when they were making money from the cash shop…Anet never considered an expansion because you guys were giving them the revenue they needed. Gem buyers are the reason we didn’t get an expansion for 3 years.

Gw2 did come out with only 5 character slots but the amount of content that we got justified that. The amount of content we are getting, from what we have seen, is not nearly worth the price tag so we cant compare the two.

If Anet sells fewer HoT pre-purchases than expected, they’ll spend more time on development. This is the reason there’s been no release date, if they sell a million copies now, they can just give you whatever is ready and not refine/add content. Why do you think GW2 shipped with such a lack of features? It’s because they sold so many copies it wasn’t necessary to add more.
http://techland.time.com/2012/08/28/guild-wars-2-sales-one-million-pre-served-record-400000-playing-at-once/

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Beast Sos.1457:

Gw2 did come out with only 5 character slots but the amount of content that we got justified that. The amount of content we are getting, from what we have seen, is not nearly worth the price tag so we cant compare the two.

When GW2 was available for pre-purchase, we knew roughly about as much about it as we do today about HoT. That is: we didn’t know much. We were told how many profs and races, we were told how many zones (but we had no idea how large).

So, I agree, we can’t compare the two.

So why not wait until you learn enough about HoT and then decide if you think it’s worth it or not?

Personally, I have had 100s of hours of fun over the last 3 years after spending a mere US$75 (for the mid-tier original game). I expect that for US$50, I’ll get 100s of hours of fun from HoT. (Not to mention: the Living Story Season #3 will be included in the price.)

Now, it might not be the same bargain deal that GW2 was 3 years ago. Still, that’s a far cry from saying that the $50 price tag is too much, with or without character slots.

A few months before Gw2 was released we knew enough to justify the price. There was a ton of content they were talking about and a huge opened world. We didnt need every last detail. I will wait to see if more content will be released that justifies the price. I most likely will buy HoT either way its not like I’m broke but it still kittenes me off that they pulled such a ugly move.