Guild Wars 2

Myrden.2456:

Straylight.7529:

mrstealth.6701:

But there are also a lot of players that are just as unhappy and not posting about it.

That is true. There are unhappy people out there who can’t/don’t want to post. But it’s more likely that they will complain opposed to unhappy or indifferent people who never complain. Therefore the people you see complaining on the forums are a fraction of an already small fraction. Therefore they must be in the minority.

Ummmm….what? This is the strangest logic I’ve heard yet. I did a very informal poll in all the main cities today, and found only 14% (7 of 52) have or will purchase if nothing changes. The others – and the five people in my household – are waiting for resolution. Again, not scientific, but to say those who are unhappy are the minority is not a slam-dunk conclusion.

You forget all the players in the main cities who didn’t respond to your little poll there. It’s safe to assume they’re indifferent about this subject.

Straylight.7529:

Myrden.2456:

Straylight.7529:

mrstealth.6701:

But there are also a lot of players that are just as unhappy and not posting about it.

That is true. There are unhappy people out there who can’t/don’t want to post. But it’s more likely that they will complain opposed to unhappy or indifferent people who never complain. Therefore the people you see complaining on the forums are a fraction of an already small fraction. Therefore they must be in the minority.

Ummmm….what? This is the strangest logic I’ve heard yet. I did a very informal poll in all the main cities today, and found only 14% (7 of 52) have or will purchase if nothing changes. The others – and the five people in my household – are waiting for resolution. Again, not scientific, but to say those who are unhappy are the minority is not a slam-dunk conclusion.

You forget all the players in the main cities who didn’t respond to your little poll there. It’s safe to assume they’re indifferent about this subject.

No it isn’t safe to assume they are indifferent. Not everyone will respond even if they feel strongly on something because of a myriad of reasons, including being afk lol

I honestly think we will hear nothing from ANet as long as the sales are good. If they reach sales targets, I’m sorry, but we can all scream to the rafters all the day long and they DO NOT CARE. Once again, the erosion of trust will continue, and more and more people will finally get fed up enough to just uninstall the game. And as long as they continuously bring in new players, it doesn’t matter one iota. Although, they may really miss the likes of me, as I have spent well over a grand in the gem store over my time here. And yet I refuse to buy this overpriced expansion when it’s really only worth $30 AND they don’t give the extra character slot, which I think is a slap in the face. On top of that the change of the FAQ was disgusting.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Straylight.7529:

Myrden.2456:

Straylight.7529:

mrstealth.6701:

But there are also a lot of players that are just as unhappy and not posting about it.

That is true. There are unhappy people out there who can’t/don’t want to post. But it’s more likely that they will complain opposed to unhappy or indifferent people who never complain. Therefore the people you see complaining on the forums are a fraction of an already small fraction. Therefore they must be in the minority.

Ummmm….what? This is the strangest logic I’ve heard yet. I did a very informal poll in all the main cities today, and found only 14% (7 of 52) have or will purchase if nothing changes. The others – and the five people in my household – are waiting for resolution. Again, not scientific, but to say those who are unhappy are the minority is not a slam-dunk conclusion.

You forget all the players in the main cities who didn’t respond to your little poll there. It’s safe to assume they’re indifferent about this subject.

No it isn’t safe to assume they are indifferent. Not everyone will respond even if they feel strongly on something because of a myriad of reasons, including being afk lol

But it’s more likey that they’re indifferent about a particular change when they don’t respond to a poll. If it bothered them so much they would respond.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20130604134550-284615-15-statistics-that-should-change-the-business-world-but-haven-t

Interesting reading, for those who are sure that only those being vocal are those unhappy with the HoT situation.

Straylight.7529:

GeekDavid.2786:

Straylight.7529:

1) The majority of players do not post on the forums. That’s a fact.
2) That majority of non-forumgoers can either feel happy, indifferent or unhappy about the game.
3) It’s far more likely that the happy and indifferent players combined are a bigger portion than the unhappy players. Why? because if it was the other way around we would suddenly have a majority of players complaining on the forums since unhappy people are the only ones who complain…and that would interfere with sentence 1).
4) Therefore we can deduce that the complainers are in the minority.

As you can see we don’t need numbers to prove that. All it needs is logic and some common sense.
Also it doesn’t matter if you understand this or not (though I hope you will). All that matters is that Arenanet understands it.

I think before the announcement I’d posted less than a half a dozen times on the forums.

Since the announcement I’ve posted quite a few more, and have not been in-game except for a few minutes to gauge my guild’s reaction to it (it wasn’t “I can’t wait to spend $50 on this expansion!” for the record).

I just proved your logic incorrect.

What? no you didn’t.

The only thing you proved is that you’re an unhappy person who found his way to the forums to complain.

Also you’re still one person no matter how often you post on the forums.

You’re still in the minority.

edit: I’m not saying your complaints are invalid. Just saying that the complainers who post on the forum do not represent the majority. They represent the vocal minority.

Just spouting numbers followed by sentences does not make it fact. What you are saying here is pure speculation.

Straylight.7529:

GeekDavid.2786:

Straylight.7529:

1) The majority of players do not post on the forums. That’s a fact.
2) That majority of non-forumgoers can either feel happy, indifferent or unhappy about the game.
3) It’s far more likely that the happy and indifferent players combined are a bigger portion than the unhappy players. Why? because if it was the other way around we would suddenly have a majority of players complaining on the forums since unhappy people are the only ones who complain…and that would interfere with sentence 1).
4) Therefore we can deduce that the complainers are in the minority.

As you can see we don’t need numbers to prove that. All it needs is logic and some common sense.
Also it doesn’t matter if you understand this or not (though I hope you will). All that matters is that Arenanet understands it.

I think before the announcement I’d posted less than a half a dozen times on the forums.

Since the announcement I’ve posted quite a few more, and have not been in-game except for a few minutes to gauge my guild’s reaction to it (it wasn’t “I can’t wait to spend $50 on this expansion!” for the record).

I just proved your logic incorrect.

What? no you didn’t.

The only thing you proved is that you’re an unhappy person who found his way to the forums to complain.

Also you’re still one person no matter how often you post on the forums.

You’re still in the minority.

edit: I’m not saying your complaints are invalid. Just saying that the complainers who post on the forum do not represent the majority. They represent the vocal minority.

You cannot prove that we don’t represent the majority that don’t speak up. You might want desperately to believe it, but you can’t prove it.

And licking ANet’s shoes won’t get you your Legendary any quicker.

“Many people do not respond to surveys or post opinions or give any indication of their leanings. Therefore they must be thinking what I think they think”

Pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

ozmaniandevil.6805:

I honestly think we will hear nothing from ANet as long as the sales are good. If they reach sales targets, I’m sorry, but we can all scream to the rafters all the day long and they DO NOT CARE. Once again, the erosion of trust will continue, and more and more people will finally get fed up enough to just uninstall the game. And as long as they continuously bring in new players, it doesn’t matter one iota. Although, they may really miss the likes of me, as I have spent well over a grand in the gem store over my time here. And yet I refuse to buy this overpriced expansion when it’s really only worth $30 AND they don’t give the extra character slot, which I think is a slap in the face. On top of that the change of the FAQ was disgusting.

Wait, did I read that correctly? You spent over a thousand dollars on the gem store for fluff-items but you’re not willing to spend 50$ for an actual expansion?
Well played sir, well played..

Straylight.7529:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Straylight.7529:

Myrden.2456:

Straylight.7529:

mrstealth.6701:

But there are also a lot of players that are just as unhappy and not posting about it.

That is true. There are unhappy people out there who can’t/don’t want to post. But it’s more likely that they will complain opposed to unhappy or indifferent people who never complain. Therefore the people you see complaining on the forums are a fraction of an already small fraction. Therefore they must be in the minority.

Ummmm….what? This is the strangest logic I’ve heard yet. I did a very informal poll in all the main cities today, and found only 14% (7 of 52) have or will purchase if nothing changes. The others – and the five people in my household – are waiting for resolution. Again, not scientific, but to say those who are unhappy are the minority is not a slam-dunk conclusion.

You forget all the players in the main cities who didn’t respond to your little poll there. It’s safe to assume they’re indifferent about this subject.

No it isn’t safe to assume they are indifferent. Not everyone will respond even if they feel strongly on something because of a myriad of reasons, including being afk lol

But it’s more likey that they’re indifferent about a particular change when they don’t respond to a poll. If it bothered them so much they would respond.

Okay, we know you’re an ANet fanboy now. Tell ya what, if they give everyone that complains a free slot but not those that don’t, will you still go “rah rah” about that?

GeekDavid.2786:

Straylight.7529:

GeekDavid.2786:

Straylight.7529:

1) The majority of players do not post on the forums. That’s a fact.
2) That majority of non-forumgoers can either feel happy, indifferent or unhappy about the game.
3) It’s far more likely that the happy and indifferent players combined are a bigger portion than the unhappy players. Why? because if it was the other way around we would suddenly have a majority of players complaining on the forums since unhappy people are the only ones who complain…and that would interfere with sentence 1).
4) Therefore we can deduce that the complainers are in the minority.

As you can see we don’t need numbers to prove that. All it needs is logic and some common sense.
Also it doesn’t matter if you understand this or not (though I hope you will). All that matters is that Arenanet understands it.

I think before the announcement I’d posted less than a half a dozen times on the forums.

Since the announcement I’ve posted quite a few more, and have not been in-game except for a few minutes to gauge my guild’s reaction to it (it wasn’t “I can’t wait to spend $50 on this expansion!” for the record).

I just proved your logic incorrect.

What? no you didn’t.

The only thing you proved is that you’re an unhappy person who found his way to the forums to complain.

Also you’re still one person no matter how often you post on the forums.

You’re still in the minority.

edit: I’m not saying your complaints are invalid. Just saying that the complainers who post on the forum do not represent the majority. They represent the vocal minority.

You cannot prove that we don’t represent the majority that don’t speak up. You might want desperately to believe it, but you can’t prove it.

And licking ANet’s shoes won’t get you your Legendary any quicker.

No, in fact you’re the one who desperately wants to believe he represents the majority. You belong to the vocal minority. Nothing more, nothing less. That doesn’t make your complaints invalid by the way.

Straylight.7529:

Therefore they must be in the minority.

They must be? I think that’s quite an assumption to make. The only way to be sure would be a randomly picked sample group (not a voluntary public question) without any bias to the questions asked.

Assuming that people have no strong opinion because they are not being publicly vocal is absurd.

Straylight.7529:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

I honestly think we will hear nothing from ANet as long as the sales are good. If they reach sales targets, I’m sorry, but we can all scream to the rafters all the day long and they DO NOT CARE. Once again, the erosion of trust will continue, and more and more people will finally get fed up enough to just uninstall the game. And as long as they continuously bring in new players, it doesn’t matter one iota. Although, they may really miss the likes of me, as I have spent well over a grand in the gem store over my time here. And yet I refuse to buy this overpriced expansion when it’s really only worth $30 AND they don’t give the extra character slot, which I think is a slap in the face. On top of that the change of the FAQ was disgusting.

Wait, did I read that correctly? You spent over a thousand dollars on the gem store for fluff-items but you’re not willing to spend 50$ for an actual expansion?
Well played sir, well played..

You are only questioning his ‘logic via your perception’. At least he has principals.

Straylight.7529:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

I honestly think we will hear nothing from ANet as long as the sales are good. If they reach sales targets, I’m sorry, but we can all scream to the rafters all the day long and they DO NOT CARE. Once again, the erosion of trust will continue, and more and more people will finally get fed up enough to just uninstall the game. And as long as they continuously bring in new players, it doesn’t matter one iota. Although, they may really miss the likes of me, as I have spent well over a grand in the gem store over my time here. And yet I refuse to buy this overpriced expansion when it’s really only worth $30 AND they don’t give the extra character slot, which I think is a slap in the face. On top of that the change of the FAQ was disgusting.

Wait, did I read that correctly? You spent over a thousand dollars on the gem store for fluff-items but you’re not willing to spend 50$ for an actual expansion?
Well played sir, well played..

You really have no clue on why half the people are upset here do you. It’s not the money to them it’s the shady business practice and low content value.

Straylight.7529:

mrstealth.6701:

But there are also a lot of players that are just as unhappy and not posting about it.

That is true. There are unhappy people out there who can’t/don’t want to post. But it’s more likely that they will complain opposed to unhappy or indifferent people who never complain. Therefore the people you see complaining on the forums are a fraction of an already small fraction. Therefore they must be in the minority.

Even if it’s true why does it matter? why are you arguing with the players here?
The point of this topic is some players were unhappy with the whole pre-order deal for various reasons they are posting here to express them. Since you’re apparently happy with the deal it doesn’t negatively effect you the only outcomes that can occur are:
1. Anet changes something to give a better deal, in which case this is a boon to you.
2. Anet does nothing, in which case since you’re already happy it doesen’t effect you.

The only outcome is a potential positive change for you, so why pick fights with the people here for no reason? Their reasons are their own nothing you say will change that doesn’t matter if you don’t agree or think their reasons are false.

Straylight.7529:

GeekDavid.2786:

Straylight.7529:

GeekDavid.2786:

Straylight.7529:

1) The majority of players do not post on the forums. That’s a fact.
2) That majority of non-forumgoers can either feel happy, indifferent or unhappy about the game.
3) It’s far more likely that the happy and indifferent players combined are a bigger portion than the unhappy players. Why? because if it was the other way around we would suddenly have a majority of players complaining on the forums since unhappy people are the only ones who complain…and that would interfere with sentence 1).
4) Therefore we can deduce that the complainers are in the minority.

As you can see we don’t need numbers to prove that. All it needs is logic and some common sense.
Also it doesn’t matter if you understand this or not (though I hope you will). All that matters is that Arenanet understands it.

I think before the announcement I’d posted less than a half a dozen times on the forums.

Since the announcement I’ve posted quite a few more, and have not been in-game except for a few minutes to gauge my guild’s reaction to it (it wasn’t “I can’t wait to spend $50 on this expansion!” for the record).

I just proved your logic incorrect.

What? no you didn’t.

The only thing you proved is that you’re an unhappy person who found his way to the forums to complain.

Also you’re still one person no matter how often you post on the forums.

You’re still in the minority.

edit: I’m not saying your complaints are invalid. Just saying that the complainers who post on the forum do not represent the majority. They represent the vocal minority.

You cannot prove that we don’t represent the majority that don’t speak up. You might want desperately to believe it, but you can’t prove it.

And licking ANet’s shoes won’t get you your Legendary any quicker.

No, in fact you’re the one who desperately wants to believe he represents the majority. You belong to the vocal minority. Nothing more, nothing less. That doesn’t make your complaints invalid by the way.

Heh. “I know you are but what am I?” was old when I was in the third grade.

Conski Deshan.2057:

Straylight.7529:

mrstealth.6701:

But there are also a lot of players that are just as unhappy and not posting about it.

That is true. There are unhappy people out there who can’t/don’t want to post. But it’s more likely that they will complain opposed to unhappy or indifferent people who never complain. Therefore the people you see complaining on the forums are a fraction of an already small fraction. Therefore they must be in the minority.

Even if it’s true why does it matter? why are you arguing with the players here?
The point of this topic is some players were unhappy with the whole pre-order deal for various reasons they are posting here to express them. Since you’re apparently happy with the deal it doesn’t negatively effect you the only outcomes that can occur are:
1. Anet changes something to give a better deal, in which case this is a boon to you.
2. Anet does nothing, in which case since you’re already happy it doesen’t effect you.

The only outcome is a potential positive change for you, so why pick fights with the people here for no reason? Their reasons are their own nothing you say will change that doesn’t matter if you don’t agree or think their reasons are false.

But… white knight.

Conski Deshan.2057:

Straylight.7529:

mrstealth.6701:

But there are also a lot of players that are just as unhappy and not posting about it.

That is true. There are unhappy people out there who can’t/don’t want to post. But it’s more likely that they will complain opposed to unhappy or indifferent people who never complain. Therefore the people you see complaining on the forums are a fraction of an already small fraction. Therefore they must be in the minority.

Even if it’s true why does it matter? why are you arguing with the players here?
The point of this topic is some players were unhappy with the whole pre-order deal for various reasons they are posting here to express them. Since you’re apparently happy with the deal it doesn’t negatively effect you the only outcomes that can occur are:
1. Anet changes something to give a better deal, in which case this is a boon to you.
2. Anet does nothing, in which case since you’re already happy it doesen’t effect you.

The only outcome is a potential positive change for you, so why pick fights with the people here for no reason? Their reasons are their own nothing you say will change that doesn’t matter if you don’t agree or think their reasons are false.

This. Right here.

Straylight.7529:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

I honestly think we will hear nothing from ANet as long as the sales are good. If they reach sales targets, I’m sorry, but we can all scream to the rafters all the day long and they DO NOT CARE. Once again, the erosion of trust will continue, and more and more people will finally get fed up enough to just uninstall the game. And as long as they continuously bring in new players, it doesn’t matter one iota. Although, they may really miss the likes of me, as I have spent well over a grand in the gem store over my time here. And yet I refuse to buy this overpriced expansion when it’s really only worth $30 AND they don’t give the extra character slot, which I think is a slap in the face. On top of that the change of the FAQ was disgusting.

Wait, did I read that correctly? You spent over a thousand dollars on the gem store for fluff-items but you’re not willing to spend 50$ for an actual expansion?
Well played sir, well played..

Yes it’s called feeling like you get what you pay for. I felt the gems I bought and what I spent them on were worth it. I don’t see the expansion as being worth $50 ($60 CDN) by a long shot. That for no frills base model without even a character slot. I feel as many others do that ANet is giving a nice deal to new players while giving the finger to old players.

Conski Deshan.2057:

Straylight.7529:

mrstealth.6701:

But there are also a lot of players that are just as unhappy and not posting about it.

That is true. There are unhappy people out there who can’t/don’t want to post. But it’s more likely that they will complain opposed to unhappy or indifferent people who never complain. Therefore the people you see complaining on the forums are a fraction of an already small fraction. Therefore they must be in the minority.

Even if it’s true why does it matter? why are you arguing with the players here?
The point of this topic is some players were unhappy with the whole pre-order deal for various reasons they are posting here to express them. Since you’re apparently happy with the deal it doesn’t negatively effect you the only outcomes that can occur are:
1. Anet changes something to give a better deal, in which case this is a boon to you.
2. Anet does nothing, in which case since you’re already happy it doesen’t effect you.

The only outcome is a potential positive change for you, so why pick fights with the people here for no reason? Their reasons are their own nothing you say will change that doesn’t matter if you don’t agree or think their reasons are false.

But the local minority who’s unhappy with this preorder deal is unhappy for all the wrong reasons and I want them to be happy. I actually want to help them. Also it can’t be said enough: if you’re not happy with the preorder, just don’t preorder. Wait until the game releases, watch some reviews, ask a friend who bought it etc.. People here act like Arenanet is holding a gun to their heads saying “Preorder or die”.

I’m not picking fights. I’m simply voicing my opinion like everyone else. I’m just one person with one opinion. Nothing more.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

Yes it’s called feeling like you get what you pay for. I felt the gems I bought and what I spent them on were worth it. I don’t see the expansion as being worth $50 ($60 CDN) by a long shot. That for no frills base model without even a character slot. I feel as many others do that ANet is giving a nice deal to new players while giving the finger to old players.

I wouldn’t go so far and say Arenanet is giving the finger to veteran players. They simply don’t treat veteran players preferentially because they (Arenanet) doesn’t feel like you’re something special for already owning the game. If you think you are something special for already owning the game than you can think that of course.

Here’s some logic:

The vast majority of players are unhappy about the expansion.

If they were exstatic about it, people would be buying it in droves, towns would be full of happy people spouting on about it, and forums and social media would be full of people singing it’s praises.

The vast majority of players are too apathetic to post on the forums.- in fact, they probably don’t even know they exist.

Most people will just stop playing a game rather than post on the forums.

People are wary of posting on forums kitten many posts are ‘moderated’ for having an opinion that may be negative towards the publisher.

In order for people to post on the forums, they either feel quite strongly about something, or are regular posters, or are white knights who will blindly defend anything and everything.

Ergo, we can conclude that the vast majority are unhappy. Not indifferent.

You could make most posters to this thread happy by personally buying them the expansion and sending them the code.

GeekDavid.2786:

Straylight.7529:

GeekDavid.2786:

Straylight.7529:

GeekDavid.2786:

Straylight.7529:

1) The majority of players do not post on the forums. That’s a fact.
2) That majority of non-forumgoers can either feel happy, indifferent or unhappy about the game.
3) It’s far more likely that the happy and indifferent players combined are a bigger portion than the unhappy players. Why? because if it was the other way around we would suddenly have a majority of players complaining on the forums since unhappy people are the only ones who complain…and that would interfere with sentence 1).
4) Therefore we can deduce that the complainers are in the minority.

As you can see we don’t need numbers to prove that. All it needs is logic and some common sense.
Also it doesn’t matter if you understand this or not (though I hope you will). All that matters is that Arenanet understands it.

I think before the announcement I’d posted less than a half a dozen times on the forums.

Since the announcement I’ve posted quite a few more, and have not been in-game except for a few minutes to gauge my guild’s reaction to it (it wasn’t “I can’t wait to spend $50 on this expansion!” for the record).

I just proved your logic incorrect.

What? no you didn’t.

The only thing you proved is that you’re an unhappy person who found his way to the forums to complain.

Also you’re still one person no matter how often you post on the forums.

You’re still in the minority.

edit: I’m not saying your complaints are invalid. Just saying that the complainers who post on the forum do not represent the majority. They represent the vocal minority.

You cannot prove that we don’t represent the majority that don’t speak up. You might want desperately to believe it, but you can’t prove it.

And licking ANet’s shoes won’t get you your Legendary any quicker.

No, in fact you’re the one who desperately wants to believe he represents the majority. You belong to the vocal minority. Nothing more, nothing less. That doesn’t make your complaints invalid by the way.

Heh. “I know you are but what am I?” was old when I was in the third grade.

He/she kind of seems like exactly what he/she is saying others are…

But again, we don’t really know which side is the majority.

Straylight.7529:

But the local minority who’s unhappy with this preorder deal is unhappy for all the wrong reasons and I want them to be happy. I actually want to help them. Also it can’t be said enough: if you’re not happy with the preorder, just don’t preorder. Wait until the game releases, watch some reviews, ask a friend who bought it etc.. People here act like Arenanet is holding a gun to their heads saying “Preorder or die”.

I’m not picking fights. I’m simply voicing my opinion like everyone else. I’m just one person with one opinion. Nothing more.

If you really want to help us and make us happy, quit lecturing us with your finger wagging in our face saying “you’re wrong you’re wrong you’re wrong!”

I can practically guarantee that’ll make more people happy than you continuing to do what you’re doing.

Straylight.7529:

Conski Deshan.2057:

Straylight.7529:

mrstealth.6701:

But there are also a lot of players that are just as unhappy and not posting about it.

That is true. There are unhappy people out there who can’t/don’t want to post. But it’s more likely that they will complain opposed to unhappy or indifferent people who never complain. Therefore the people you see complaining on the forums are a fraction of an already small fraction. Therefore they must be in the minority.

Even if it’s true why does it matter? why are you arguing with the players here?
The point of this topic is some players were unhappy with the whole pre-order deal for various reasons they are posting here to express them. Since you’re apparently happy with the deal it doesn’t negatively effect you the only outcomes that can occur are:
1. Anet changes something to give a better deal, in which case this is a boon to you.
2. Anet does nothing, in which case since you’re already happy it doesen’t effect you.

The only outcome is a potential positive change for you, so why pick fights with the people here for no reason? Their reasons are their own nothing you say will change that doesn’t matter if you don’t agree or think their reasons are false.

But the local minority who’s unhappy with this preorder deal is unhappy for all the wrong reasons and I want them to be happy. I actually want to help them. Also it can’t be said enough: if you’re not happy with the preorder, just don’t preorder. Wait until the game releases, watch some reviews, ask a friend who bought it etc.. People here act like Arenanet is holding a gun to their heads saying “Preorder or die”.

I’m not picking fights. I’m simply voicing my opinion like everyone else. I’m just one person with one opinion. Nothing more.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

Yes it’s called feeling like you get what you pay for. I felt the gems I bought and what I spent them on were worth it. I don’t see the expansion as being worth $50 ($60 CDN) by a long shot. That for no frills base model without even a character slot. I feel as many others do that ANet is giving a nice deal to new players while giving the finger to old players.

I wouldn’t go so far and say Arenanet is giving the finger to veteran players. They simply don’t treat veteran players preferentially because they (Arenanet) doesn’t feel like you’re something special for already owning the game. If you think you are something special for already owning the game than you can think that of course.

Way to put words in my mouth. I can state my own feelings. No need to put your own bias into it.

Baldrick.8967:

Here’s some logic:

The vast majority of players are unhappy about the expansion.

If they were exstatic about it, people would be buying it in droves, towns would be full of happy people spouting on about it, and forums and social media would be full of people singing it’s praises.

-snip-

No, I’m sorry but your post already falls apart right there. The vast majority of people are indifferent/happy about the expansion/game. There are hundreds of thousands of GW2 players you never hear of. They never post on the forum. They never complain and they never voice their opinion. Those are all typical behavioral patterns for indifferent or happy people.

Straylight.7529:

But the local minority who’s unhappy with this preorder deal is unhappy for all the wrong reasons and I want them to be happy.

Now you’re trying to tell us what we should or shouldn’t be happy about because what you think that’s the majority opinion?

That really does sound like someone trying to desperately be part of the majority they perceive.

I’m guessing your next post will start with “Would you kindly…”

Straylight.7529:

Conski Deshan.2057:

Straylight.7529:

mrstealth.6701:

But there are also a lot of players that are just as unhappy and not posting about it.

That is true. There are unhappy people out there who can’t/don’t want to post. But it’s more likely that they will complain opposed to unhappy or indifferent people who never complain. Therefore the people you see complaining on the forums are a fraction of an already small fraction. Therefore they must be in the minority.

Even if it’s true why does it matter? why are you arguing with the players here?
The point of this topic is some players were unhappy with the whole pre-order deal for various reasons they are posting here to express them. Since you’re apparently happy with the deal it doesn’t negatively effect you the only outcomes that can occur are:
1. Anet changes something to give a better deal, in which case this is a boon to you.
2. Anet does nothing, in which case since you’re already happy it doesen’t effect you.

The only outcome is a potential positive change for you, so why pick fights with the people here for no reason? Their reasons are their own nothing you say will change that doesn’t matter if you don’t agree or think their reasons are false.

But the local minority who’s unhappy with this preorder deal is unhappy for all the wrong reasons and I want them to be happy. I actually want to help them. Also it can’t be said enough: if you’re not happy with the preorder, just don’t preorder. Wait until the game releases, watch some reviews, ask a friend who bought it etc.. People here act like Arenanet is holding a gun to their heads saying “Preorder or die”.

I’m not picking fights. I’m simply voicing my opinion like everyone else. I’m just one person with one opinion. Nothing more.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

Yes it’s called feeling like you get what you pay for. I felt the gems I bought and what I spent them on were worth it. I don’t see the expansion as being worth $50 ($60 CDN) by a long shot. That for no frills base model without even a character slot. I feel as many others do that ANet is giving a nice deal to new players while giving the finger to old players.

I wouldn’t go so far and say Arenanet is giving the finger to veteran players. They simply don’t treat veteran players preferentially because they (Arenanet) doesn’t feel like you’re something special for already owning the game. If you think you are something special for already owning the game than you can think that of course.

Thanks for dictating to us on why we are wrong and you are right. Nice trolling.

mrstealth.6701:

Straylight.7529:

But the local minority who’s unhappy with this preorder deal is unhappy for all the wrong reasons and I want them to be happy.

Now you’re trying to tell us what we should or shouldn’t be happy about because what you think that’s the majority opinion?

That really does sound like someone trying to desperately be part of the majority they perceive.

I’m guessing your next post will start with “Would you kindly…”

All this to and fro-ing is really counter productive. Mud-slinging here wont accomplish much. Can we turn the thread back towards it’s intended purpose and simply post our thoughts on the content/price? And not on each others thoughts of the content/price?

Edit: spelling

NecroN.8306:

Nice trolling.

Bingo.

Straylight.7529:

There are hundreds of thousands of GW2 players you never hear of. They never post on the forum. They never complain and they never voice their opinion.

This is good to remember. People that say they know the majority of players are angry/quitting the game/not ever going to buy HoT are simply exaggerating.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Straylight.7529:

There are hundreds of thousands of GW2 players you never hear of. They never post on the forum. They never complain and they never voice their opinion.

This is good to remember. People that say they know the majority of players are angry/quitting the game/not ever going to buy HoT are simply exaggerating.

So are those that say the majority will eventually buy HoT.

Fact is, we really don’t know yet. So both extremes are wrong in this case.

Wake me up when I can roll a Revenant, without deleting any current characters, for $50 or less.

Until then, all this sound and fury signifies nothing.

Straylight.7529:

But the local minority who’s unhappy with this preorder deal is unhappy for all the wrong reasons and I want them to be happy. I actually want to help them. Also it can’t be said enough: if you’re not happy with the preorder, just don’t preorder. Wait until the game releases, watch some reviews, ask a friend who bought it etc.. People here act like Arenanet is holding a gun to their heads saying “Preorder or die”.

I’m not picking fights. I’m simply voicing my opinion like everyone else. I’m just one person with one opinion. Nothing more.

There is a time issue in this matter. I want the pre-order bonus’s and to play from day 1 , that means I’d very much like the issue to be resolved before release and can’t wait.

As for the reasons people are angry
1. It was felt a character slot should have been included in all versions.
2. The vanilla key is lost on an existing account, either getting the key or an alternative would be liked.
3. The FAQ was changed, where it prior stated that GW2 was required for the expansion, not included, this was felt to be a cheap move.
4. The price point for one or more versions is felt to be unfair and is objectively at a higher price than a compatible boxed store product which would lead credence to this.

Which of these are apparently the “wrong” reasons? Even if they are based on feelings not fact they’re all valid reasons to be unhappy.

Straylight.7529:

Baldrick.8967:

Here’s some logic:

The vast majority of players are unhappy about the expansion.

If they were exstatic about it, people would be buying it in droves, towns would be full of happy people spouting on about it, and forums and social media would be full of people singing it’s praises.

-snip-

No, I’m sorry but your post already falls apart right there. The vast majority of people are indifferent/happy about the expansion/game. There are hundreds of thousands of GW2 players you never hear of. They never post on the forum. They never complain and they never voice their opinion. Those are all typical behavioral patterns for indifferent or happy people.

So, all of the unhappy people I know are really just indifferent?

…or they just don’t bother posting on forums. Perhaps because they’d rather not have to see people telling them they’re “feeling wrong”. Instead they just vote with their wallet. The vote that really matters to Anet.

Scoundrel.2139:

mrstealth.6701:

Straylight.7529:

But the local minority who’s unhappy with this preorder deal is unhappy for all the wrong reasons and I want them to be happy.

Now you’re trying to tell us what we should or shouldn’t be happy about because what you think that’s the majority opinion?

That really does sound like someone trying to desperately be part of the majority they perceive.

I’m guessing your next post will start with “Would you kindly…”

All this to and fro-ing is really counter productive. Mud-slinging here wont accomplish much. Can we turn the thread back towards it’s intended purpose and simply post our thoughts on the content/price? And not on each others thoughts of the content/price?

Edit: spelling

Agreed. And there is so much more wrong here than just the price and amount of content we think it will or will not have. That is really seeming to be one of the more minor concerns.

mrstealth.6701:

Straylight.7529:

Baldrick.8967:

Here’s some logic:

The vast majority of players are unhappy about the expansion.

If they were exstatic about it, people would be buying it in droves, towns would be full of happy people spouting on about it, and forums and social media would be full of people singing it’s praises.

-snip-

No, I’m sorry but your post already falls apart right there. The vast majority of people are indifferent/happy about the expansion/game. There are hundreds of thousands of GW2 players you never hear of. They never post on the forum. They never complain and they never voice their opinion. Those are all typical behavioral patterns for indifferent or happy people.

So, all of the unhappy people I know are really just indifferent?

…or they just don’t bother posting on forums. Perhaps because they’d rather not have to see people telling them they’re “feeling wrong”. Instead they just vote with their wallet. The vote that really matters to Anet.

No, the unhappy people are unhappy and the indifferent people are indifferent. It just happens that the few unhappy people you know pale in comparison to the number of indifferent+happy people out there.

Sure, there will be people who’re unhappy and simply vote with their wallet without telling anyone. But you forget that people who don’t complain are more likely to belong to the happy+indifferent group opposed to the unhappy group. Most people are not complaining that means most people are indifferent or happy.

Straylight.7529:

mrstealth.6701:

Straylight.7529:

Baldrick.8967:

Here’s some logic:

The vast majority of players are unhappy about the expansion.

If they were exstatic about it, people would be buying it in droves, towns would be full of happy people spouting on about it, and forums and social media would be full of people singing it’s praises.

-snip-

No, I’m sorry but your post already falls apart right there. The vast majority of people are indifferent/happy about the expansion/game. There are hundreds of thousands of GW2 players you never hear of. They never post on the forum. They never complain and they never voice their opinion. Those are all typical behavioral patterns for indifferent or happy people.

So, all of the unhappy people I know are really just indifferent?

…or they just don’t bother posting on forums. Perhaps because they’d rather not have to see people telling them they’re “feeling wrong”. Instead they just vote with their wallet. The vote that really matters to Anet.

No, the unhappy people are unhappy and the indifferent people are indifferent. It just happens that the few unhappy people you know pale in comparison to the number of indifferent+happy people out there.

Sure, there will be people who’re unhappy and simply vote with their wallet. But you forget that people who don’t complain are more likely to belong to the happy+indifferent group opposed to the unhappy group. Most people are not complaining that means most people are indifferent or happy.

You’re making it sound as if indifferent people are on your “side”. I have never spent money on something I was indifferent about.

Manasa Devi.7958:

You’re making it sound as if indifferent people are on your “side”. I have never spent money on something I was indifferent about.

Brilliant! You must play asura in the game, you’re easily intelligent enough to be one of us (4 of my 5 characters are asura).

Manasa Devi.7958:

Straylight.7529:

mrstealth.6701:

Straylight.7529:

Baldrick.8967:

Here’s some logic:

The vast majority of players are unhappy about the expansion.

If they were exstatic about it, people would be buying it in droves, towns would be full of happy people spouting on about it, and forums and social media would be full of people singing it’s praises.

-snip-

No, I’m sorry but your post already falls apart right there. The vast majority of people are indifferent/happy about the expansion/game. There are hundreds of thousands of GW2 players you never hear of. They never post on the forum. They never complain and they never voice their opinion. Those are all typical behavioral patterns for indifferent or happy people.

So, all of the unhappy people I know are really just indifferent?

…or they just don’t bother posting on forums. Perhaps because they’d rather not have to see people telling them they’re “feeling wrong”. Instead they just vote with their wallet. The vote that really matters to Anet.

No, the unhappy people are unhappy and the indifferent people are indifferent. It just happens that the few unhappy people you know pale in comparison to the number of indifferent+happy people out there.

Sure, there will be people who’re unhappy and simply vote with their wallet. But you forget that people who don’t complain are more likely to belong to the happy+indifferent group opposed to the unhappy group. Most people are not complaining that means most people are indifferent or happy.

You’re making it sound as if indifferent people are on your “side”. I have never spent money on something I was indifferent about.

Indifferent people are just that: indifferent. They don’t care about the preorder , they don’t care if they get a free character slot, they don’t care whether change x is going to be implemented or not…and so on. That’s what I meant with “indifferent”.

Indifferent people are not on my side or anyone’s side. They just don’t belong to the unhappy people.

Straylight.7529:

mrstealth.6701:

Straylight.7529:

Baldrick.8967:

Here’s some logic:

The vast majority of players are unhappy about the expansion.

If they were exstatic about it, people would be buying it in droves, towns would be full of happy people spouting on about it, and forums and social media would be full of people singing it’s praises.

-snip-

No, I’m sorry but your post already falls apart right there. The vast majority of people are indifferent/happy about the expansion/game. There are hundreds of thousands of GW2 players you never hear of. They never post on the forum. They never complain and they never voice their opinion. Those are all typical behavioral patterns for indifferent or happy people.

So, all of the unhappy people I know are really just indifferent?

…or they just don’t bother posting on forums. Perhaps because they’d rather not have to see people telling them they’re “feeling wrong”. Instead they just vote with their wallet. The vote that really matters to Anet.

No, the unhappy people are unhappy and the indifferent people are indifferent. It just happens that the few unhappy people you know pale in comparison to the number of indifferent+happy people out there.

Sure, there will be people who’re unhappy and simply vote with their wallet. But you forget that people who don’t complain are more likely to belong to the happy+indifferent group opposed to the unhappy group. Most people are not complaining that means most people are indifferent or happy.

Im glad that you have all the statistical information in hand.

The arguments obviously lose value by stating how many of the people are standing behind them. Because that’s how democracy works. The majority is always more right than the minority.

(Yes that was sarcasm)

Straylight.7529:

mrstealth.6701:

Straylight.7529:

Baldrick.8967:

Here’s some logic:

The vast majority of players are unhappy about the expansion.

If they were exstatic about it, people would be buying it in droves, towns would be full of happy people spouting on about it, and forums and social media would be full of people singing it’s praises.

-snip-

No, I’m sorry but your post already falls apart right there. The vast majority of people are indifferent/happy about the expansion/game. There are hundreds of thousands of GW2 players you never hear of. They never post on the forum. They never complain and they never voice their opinion. Those are all typical behavioral patterns for indifferent or happy people.

So, all of the unhappy people I know are really just indifferent?

…or they just don’t bother posting on forums. Perhaps because they’d rather not have to see people telling them they’re “feeling wrong”. Instead they just vote with their wallet. The vote that really matters to Anet.

No, the unhappy people are unhappy and the indifferent people are indifferent. It just happens that the few unhappy people you know pale in comparison to the number of indifferent+happy people out there.

Sure, there will be people who’re unhappy and simply vote with their wallet without telling anyone. But you forget that people who don’t complain are more likely to belong to the happy+indifferent group opposed to the unhappy group. Most people are not complaining that means most people are indifferent or happy.

Yet again this is pure speculation. You have ZERO proof of any of this. You’re voicing your opinion on to others.

Straylight.7529 Your only purpose here is to derail this thread. Go troll somewhere else and stick to facts.

Straylight.7529:

mrstealth.6701:

Straylight.7529:

Baldrick.8967:

Here’s some logic:

The vast majority of players are unhappy about the expansion.

If they were exstatic about it, people would be buying it in droves, towns would be full of happy people spouting on about it, and forums and social media would be full of people singing it’s praises.

-snip-

No, I’m sorry but your post already falls apart right there. The vast majority of people are indifferent/happy about the expansion/game. There are hundreds of thousands of GW2 players you never hear of. They never post on the forum. They never complain and they never voice their opinion. Those are all typical behavioral patterns for indifferent or happy people.

So, all of the unhappy people I know are really just indifferent?

…or they just don’t bother posting on forums. Perhaps because they’d rather not have to see people telling them they’re “feeling wrong”. Instead they just vote with their wallet. The vote that really matters to Anet.

No, the unhappy people are unhappy and the indifferent people are indifferent. It just happens that the few unhappy people you know pale in comparison to the number of indifferent+happy people out there.

Sure, there will be people who’re unhappy and simply vote with their wallet without telling anyone. But you forget that people who don’t complain are more likely to belong to the happy+indifferent group opposed to the unhappy group. Most people are not complaining that means most people are indifferent or happy.

Many are complaining, as my friends are, just not on these forums or some other place you see. That’s the fallacy of the assumption. Saying that not posting here, is the same as not complaining. It’s not at all the same.

A lot of people, no matter how unhappy they are, simply aren’t going to go to some forum they don’t use in order to voice that complaint.

In the end, it really doesn’t matter what is the majority or minority. There is really no need to squabble over it. If someone wants to prove either way, they can go do some proper unbiased surveys.

The fact is that a lot of people are unhappy and it’s creating a rather large mess of bad PR. That is really all that matters, and that is what Anet is going to need to deal with.

NecroN.8306:

Straylight.7529 Your only purpose here is to derail this thread. Go troll somewhere else and stick to facts.

Best way to get a troll to move on to another thread or forum… don’t feed it. (i.e. don’t reply.)

I’m starting to follow my own advice right now.

NecroN.8306:

Yet again this is pure speculation. You have ZERO proof of any of this. You’re voicing your opinion on to others.

Straylight.7529 Your only purpose here is to derail this thread. Go troll somewhere else and stick to facts.

I don’t have statistical proof nor is it necessary. It’s speculation based on reason and logic. It’s simply absurd to think that the vocal minority on this forum who’s upset about the preorder represents the majority. Yet that is exactly how (many of) the people act when they complain towards Arenanet. And in quite a rude fashion I might add.

Of course I’m voicing my opinion. It’s the only thing I can do here. I was simply trying to explain to Pretty Pixie.8603 (about a page or two ago) why you don’t need statistical evidence to show that the forum-complainers are not the majority. You can do that with reason and logic (which I applied in my 4-step process). You and others obviously don’t agree and I simply responded to your posts. If you don’t want to talk to me anymore, simply stop talking to me.

alright guys… clap him off, clap him off.

GeekDavid.2786:

NecroN.8306:

Straylight.7529 Your only purpose here is to derail this thread. Go troll somewhere else and stick to facts.

Best way to get a troll to move on to another thread or forum… don’t feed it. (i.e. don’t reply.)

I’m starting to follow my own advice right now.

Same for me. I’m not bothering with any more posts (from anyone or any side) over who is the majority/minority unless they bring some actual data with them.

Something without any response bias, and not done on as a voluntary survey (like asking mapchat).

I don’t really care who the majority is, anyway. I’m unhappy, so are lots of others. That’s really it.

Asking on map chat is useless in any case. Most people there won’t be angry, happy, or indifferent, they’ll be oblivious, wondering what the hell you’re talking about.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Asking on map chat is useless in any case. Most people there won’t be angry, happy, or indifferent, they’ll be oblivious, wondering what the hell you’re talking about.

Or they’ll be busy doing whatever they’re doing and pretty much ignoring chat.

Straylight.7529:

NecroN.8306:

Yet again this is pure speculation. You have ZERO proof of any of this. You’re voicing your opinion on to others.

Straylight.7529 Your only purpose here is to derail this thread. Go troll somewhere else and stick to facts.

I don’t have statistical proof nor is it necessary. It’s speculation based on reason and logic. It’s simply absurd to think that the vocal minority on this forum who’s upset about the preorder represents the majority. Yet that is exactly how (many of) the people act when they complain towards Arenanet. And in quite a rude fashion I might add.

Of course I’m voicing my opinion. It’s the only thing I can do here. I was simply trying to explain to Pretty Pixie.8603 (about a page or two ago) why you don’t need statistical evidence to show that the forum-complainers are not the majority. You can do that with reason and logic (which I applied in my 4-step process). You and others obviously don’t agree and I simply responded to your posts. If you don’t want to talk to me anymore, simply stop talking to me.

At least you call it speculation yourself. Then again the relevance of there being a majority or minority is quite pointless. All that matters is the amount significant enough and/or do some of their arguments hold any water.

Straylight.7529:

1) The majority of players do not post on the forums. That’s a fact.
2) That majority of non-forumgoers can either feel happy, indifferent or unhappy about the game.
3) It’s far more likely that the happy and indifferent players combined are a bigger portion than the unhappy players. Why? because if it was the other way around we would suddenly have a majority of players complaining on the forums since unhappy people are the only ones who complain…and that would interfere with sentence 1).
4) Therefore we can deduce that the complainers are in the minority.

As you can see we don’t need numbers to prove that. All it needs is logic and some common sense.
Also it doesn’t matter if you understand this or not (though I hope you will). All that matters is that Arenanet understands it.

Your ‘Logic’ is illogical. It presumes that everyone that’s upset will actively post here. That’s not true.

What we do have is a large sample of very disgruntled customers. A statistical majority. If your illogical theory was true, no company would ever address the concerns of their forum communities.

And yet EAnet quickly backed out of their plans of charging individually for colored commander tags.