Guild Wars 2

Arguments:

1) Base game is free to new players = slap in face to veterans.
– A veteran would be happy with this, not disappointed as it instantly eliminates the pay wall for new players entering our digital world. A veteran player would recognize that the years of enjoyment this game has already provided with living world, seasonal events, and limited duration items is much more valuable than a new player version of the game. If that wasn’t true the veteran player would use their HoT purchase as a second account while farming laurels with their veteran account.

2) No character included with the basic version of HoT.
– This veteran would also understand that a character slot can easily be purchased (or HoT can be upgraded to deluxe edition) using in game gold. This in game gold can be accumulated in a short amount of time playing the current content quite easily.

3) HoT is not worth $50.
– A truly devoted veteran would have shown support to Anet over the past 3 years by purchasing gems with real money. In turn this devoted veteran would be getting very little additional content with those purchased gems. 20, 30, 40 or infinite dollars of real money have been spent by actual devoted GW2 veterans on skins, minis, and other cosmetic tools. To these devoted veterans a purchase of $50 for actual content is a blessing!

The pre purchase numbers for HoT will prove to all the truly enormous amount of dedicated players in the GW2 community. Do not for 1 minute believe that opinions like those of the forums are shared by the majority of the “veteran” or even the new player base.

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Your ‘Logic’ is illogical. It presumes that everyone that’s upset will actively post here. That’s not true.

No , I don’t assume that. See here:

mrstealth.6701:

mrstealth.6701:

But there are also a lot of players that are just as unhappy and not posting about it.

That is true. There are unhappy people out there who can’t/don’t want to post. But it’s more likely that they will complain opposed to unhappy or indifferent people who never complain. Therefore the people you see complaining on the forums are a fraction of an already small fraction. Therefore they must be in the minority.

……………………..

Pretty Pixie.8603:

What we do have is a large sample of very disgruntled customers. A statistical majority. If your illogical theory was true, no company would ever address the concerns of their forum communities.

And yet EAnet quickly backed out of their plans of charging individually for colored commander tags.

A large sample of very disgruntled customers is not a statistical majority. They’re just that: a large sample. Maybe a few hundreds of upset posters on the forums. That’s few compared to the hundreds of thousands you never hear of. Even if every single forum poster would be unhappy about the preorder they couldn’t reach a majority because the forum is such a small part compared to the entire player base on the planet.

DieselFueled.3257:

Arguments:

1) Base game is free to new players = slap in face to veterans.
– A veteran would be happy with this, not disappointed as it instantly eliminates the pay wall for new players entering our digital world. A veteran player would recognize that the years of enjoyment this game has already provided with living world, seasonal events, and limited duration items is much more valuable than a new player version of the game. If that wasn’t true the veteran player would use their HoT purchase as a second account while farming laurels with their veteran account.

2) No character included with the basic version of HoT.
– This veteran would also understand that a character slot can easily be purchased (or HoT can be upgraded to deluxe edition) using in game gold. This in game gold can be accumulated in a short amount of time playing the current content quite easily.

3) HoT is not worth $50.
– A truly devoted veteran would have shown support to Anet over the past 3 years by purchasing gems with real money. In turn this devoted veteran would be getting very little additional content with those purchased gems. 20, 30, 40 or infinite dollars of real money have been spent by actual devoted GW2 veterans on skins, minis, and other cosmetic tools. To these devoted veterans a purchase of $50 for actual content is a blessing!

The pre purchase numbers for HoT will prove to all the truly enormous amount of dedicated players in the GW2 community. Do not for 1 minute believe that opinions like those of the OP are shared by the “veteran” or even the new player base.

Add Anet continuing to sell the core game while their FAQ falsely stated owning it was required for HoT. I think that is the dirtiest thing they’ve done in this mess.

DieselFueled.3257:

Arguments:

1) Base game is free to new players = slap in face to veterans.
– A veteran would be happy with this, not disappointed as it instantly eliminates the pay wall for new players entering our digital world. A veteran player would recognize that the years of enjoyment this game has already provided with living world, seasonal events, and limited duration items is much more valuable than a new player version of the game. If that wasn’t true the veteran player would use their HoT purchase as a second account while farming laurels with their veteran account.

2) No character included with the basic version of HoT.
– This veteran would also understand that a character slot can easily be purchased (or HoT can be upgraded to deluxe edition) using in game gold. This in game gold can be accumulated in a short amount of time playing the current content quite easily.

3) HoT is not worth $50.
– A truly devoted veteran would have shown support to Anet over the past 3 years by purchasing gems with real money. In turn this devoted veteran would be getting very little additional content with those purchased gems. 20, 30, 40 or infinite dollars of real money have been spent by actual devoted GW2 veterans on skins, minis, and other cosmetic tools. To these devoted veterans a purchase of $50 for actual content is a blessing!

The pre purchase numbers for HoT will prove to all the truly enormous amount of dedicated players in the GW2 community. Do not for 1 minute believe that opinions like those of the OP are shared by the “veteran” or even the new player base.

1. This is a poor representation of the argument. New players are getting a vanilla copy of the game, despite what anyone says, this has value. The existing players would like to get the value out of this too. Either by the key (literally the same as the new players) or 800 gems/extra character slot (both of comparable value to the base games lowest price).

2. Opportunity cost, the 5 hours I’d have to spend farming that gold could have been put to other use if it had been given with the HOT package. The person who did just straight out buy it has also just gained 5 hours on me in that time.

3. Liking something for what it did and blind fanaticism are very different. Each purchase should be considered on it’s own, maybe they felt that 20 euro was worth it at the time, but have decided the hot purchase is not currently. Also do not assume people have large amounts of money to spend, remember people in fairly dire financial situations play MMO’s too (large number of hours of content for a relatively low initial price generally)

DieselFueled.3257:

Do not for 1 minute believe that opinions like those of the OP are shared by the “veteran” or even the new player base.

Do not for one second presume to speak for any “base” at all. You speak for yourself, just like I speak for myself.

Also, the OP asked a simple question.

Straylight.7529:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Your ‘Logic’ is illogical. It presumes that everyone that’s upset will actively post here. That’s not true.

No , I don’t assume that. See here:

mrstealth.6701:

mrstealth.6701:

But there are also a lot of players that are just as unhappy and not posting about it.

That is true. There are unhappy people out there who can’t/don’t want to post. But it’s more likely that they will complain opposed to unhappy or indifferent people who never complain. Therefore the people you see complaining on the forums are a fraction of an already small fraction. Therefore they must be in the minority.

……………………..

Pretty Pixie.8603:

What we do have is a large sample of very disgruntled customers. A statistical majority. If your illogical theory was true, no company would ever address the concerns of their forum communities.

And yet EAnet quickly backed out of their plans of charging individually for colored commander tags.

A large sample of very disgruntled customers is not a statistical majority. They’re just that: a large sample. Maybe a few hundreds of upset posters on the forums. That’s few compared to the hundreds of thousands you never hear of. Even if every single forum poster would be unhappy about the preorder they couldn’t reach a majority because the forum is such a small part compared to the entire player base on the planet.

It appears that you lack basic understanding of statistics, although I can see how painting unhappy customers as a neglible group would suit your argument.

If you are right, EAnet can happily ignore the outcry in a 4800 post thread, the most upvoted thread in the GW2 subreddit, and the mediacoverage.

We’ll see.

Conski Deshan.2057:

1. This is a poor representation of the argument. New players are getting a vanilla copy of the game, despite what anyone says, this has value. The existing players would like to get the value out of this too. Either by the key (literally the same as the new players) or 800 gems/extra character slot (both of comparable value to the base games lowest price).

But you’re not getting it. It’s a free bonus for new players and new players only. If I were you I would stop concerning myself what “the other guy” gets and instead deal with what you get. I apologize for being rude but saying “the new player gets more than I do, I deserve this too!” is such an immature attitude that reeks of envy.

Conski Deshan.2057:

2. Opportunity cost, the 5 hours I’d have to spend farming that gold could have been put to other use if it had been given with the HOT package. The person who did just straight out buy it has also just gained 5 hours on me in that time.

You’re being presented with an easy solution yet you refuse it. And 5 hours? Wow, you’re going to be waaaay behind everyone else. You might not even make it to Mordremoth until the next x-pac hits.

Conski Deshan.2057:

3. Liking something for what it did and blind fanaticism are very different. Each purchase should be considered on it’s own, maybe they felt that 20 euro was worth it at the time, but have decided the hot purchase is not currently. Also do not assume people have large amounts of money to spend, remember people in fairly dire financial situations play MMO’s too (large number of hours of content for a relatively low initial price generally)

That I can agree with. It’s certainly your right whether HoT is worth your money or not.

Conski Deshan.2057:

Arguments:

1. This is a poor representation of the argument. New players are getting a vanilla copy of the game, despite what anyone says, this has value. The existing players would like to get the value out of this too. Either by the key (literally the same as the new players) or 800 gems/extra character slot (both of comparable value to the base games lowest price)
- You can have the exact same thing. HoT will be applied to the new account.

2. Opportunity cost, the 5 hours I’d have to spend farming that gold could have been put to other use if it had been given with the HOT package. The person who did just straight out buy it has also just gained 5 hours on me in that time.
- A new player will spend days getting a single character to 80 and probably weeks or months before a decent amount of wealth is accumulated.

3. Liking something for what it did and blind fanaticism are very different. Each purchase should be considered on it’s own, maybe they felt that 20 euro was worth it at the time, but have decided the hot purchase is not currently. Also do not assume people have large amounts of money to spend, remember people in fairly dire financial situations play MMO’s too (large number of hours of content for a relatively low initial price generally)
- I do not assume anything. Those that have been playing for 3 years without spending any real world currency should not complain at all. Ever.

Greed, negativity, and hatred are the most common forms of communication on forums.

Straylight.7529:

But you’re not getting it. It’s a free bonus for new players and new players only.

Even so, people feel like vets and new players are getting disproportionate values for the same $50.

mrstealth.6701:

Add Anet continuing to sell the core game while their FAQ falsely stated owning it was required for HoT. I think that is the dirtiest thing they’ve done in this mess.

They have already offered refunds going back 30 and in some reported cases 60 days on GW2 purchases towards HoT upgrades. They changed their mind on how they wanted to distribute the game which made it way easier for new players. I bought my second account during the 10 dollar sale. Do I feel slighted? No.

Pretty Pixie.8603:

It appears that you lack basic understanding of statistics, although I can see how painting unhappy customers as a neglible group would suit your argument.

If you are right, EAnet can happily ignore the outcry in a 4800 post thread, the most upvoted thread in the GW2 subreddit, and the mediacoverage.

We’ll see.

I’m not painting unhappy customers as a neglible group. I simply showed you why they are a vocal minority and not a majority like they think they are.

Assuming the playerbase of Guild Wars 2 has 500,000 people. 5000 angry reddit posters would be 1%. Yeah..I think Arenanet will probably ignore them.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Straylight.7529:

But you’re not getting it. It’s a free bonus for new players and new players only.

Even so, people feel like vets and new players are getting disproportionate values for the same $50.

That’s true. New players get the better deal. But I certainly won’t begrudge them for getting such an awesome deal. Good for them I say! It’s just childish to tug at Arenanets coattail and saying “but..but…I want this too!” when you’ve already gotten so much value out of your initial purchase.

DieselFueled.3257:

Conski Deshan.2057:

Arguments:

1.
- You can have the exact same thing. HoT will be applied to the new account.

2.
- A new player will spend days getting a single character to 80 and probably weeks or months before a decent amount of wealth is accumulated.

3.
- I do not assume anything. Those that have been playing for 3 years without spending any real world currency should not complain at all. Ever.

Greed, negativity, and hatred are the most common forms of communication on forums.

1. You’re being intentionally pedantic, you know full well the value of your account comes from how developed an account is overall and in comparison to other players. So HOT needs to be applied to my existing account. So I’ll restate it just to be clear, a seperate CD-key (so that it’s of use to a vet) with for the vanilla only or 800 gems/charslot.

2. The character slot is not exclusive to the new players, so I’m not sure what your point is here? It is still an opportunity cost.

3. They have every right to complain/comment they are still a customer. Since it has apparently been forgotten gaming is a Skill based activity, the single most important symbol of your worth is how skilled you are at the game not how much money you’ve chucked at it. Just because you’ve thrown money on gems it does not give your voice any more weight.

DieselFueled.3257:

mrstealth.6701:

Add Anet continuing to sell the core game while their FAQ falsely stated owning it was required for HoT. I think that is the dirtiest thing they’ve done in this mess.

They have already offered refunds going back 30 and in some reported cases 60 days on GW2 purchases towards HoT upgrades. They changed their mind on how they wanted to distribute the game which made it way easier for new players. I bought my second account during the 10 dollar sale. Do I feel slighted? No.

A refund offer that requires deleting their existing account. And if they have bought any gems in that time, they’re out that money as it’s not refunded.

Straylight.7529:

when you’ve already gotten so much value out of your initial purchase.

The initial purchase entitled us to that. It doesn’t enter into any equation beyond that.

“But sir, you have no grounds to complain about the size of the steak and the flaccidness of the greens! We served you a perfectly good meal last year.”

[/quote]This is good to remember. People that say they know the majority of players are angry/quitting the game/not ever going to buy HoT are simply exaggerating.[/quote]

Exaggerate no more. I am gone from GW2 and may very well not return. Arenanet has done a real disservice to this long standing player who was part of this franchise going way back to GW1.

Out of here,

WiredHot.7651:

This is good to remember. People that say they know the majority of players are angry/quitting the game/not ever going to buy HoT are simply exaggerating.[/quote]

Exaggerate no more. I am gone from GW2 and may very well not return. Arenanet has done a real disservice to this long standing player who was part of this franchise going way back to GW1.

Out of here,

[/quote]

If they don’t address these problems soon, and satisfactorily, I’ll probably be joining you.

Conski Deshan.2057:

1. You’re being intentionally pedantic, you know full well the value of your account comes from how developed an account is overall and in comparison to other players. So HOT needs to be applied to my existing account. So I’ll restate it just to be clear, a seperate CD-key (so that it’s of use to a vet) with for the vanilla only or 800 gems/charslot.
- I know I value it at more than 10 bucks. Point proven. Next!

2. The character slot is not exclusive to the new players, so I’m not sure what your point is here? It is still an opportunity cost.
- The point is you said a duration of time would be required to accumulate the gold to buy gems to unlock a new character slot or even upgrade to deluxe edition. This in your mind was unfair because you could be doing something immediately beneficial to your character like a new player would be doing. However this new player will be spending significantly more time to reach 80 and accumulate wealth than it would take someone like you with several 80 level characters already existing. As you suggested this could take only a few days. Much sooner than time remaining before the release of HoT.

3. They have every right to complain/comment they are still a customer. Since it has apparently been forgotten gaming is a Skill based activity, the single most important symbol of your worth is how skilled you are at the game not how much money you’ve chucked at it. Just because you’ve thrown money on gems it does not give your voice any more weight.
- Everyone has the right to an opinion. The portion of the community that has been supporting this game for years will pay for HoT without question. Those that have loved the game and cannot afford HoT will find a way. And those that are neither of the previously mentioned groups will complain on forums.

Straylight.7529:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Your ‘Logic’ is illogical. It presumes that everyone that’s upset will actively post here. That’s not true.

No , I don’t assume that. See here:

mrstealth.6701:

mrstealth.6701:

But there are also a lot of players that are just as unhappy and not posting about it.

That is true. There are unhappy people out there who can’t/don’t want to post. But it’s more likely that they will complain opposed to unhappy or indifferent people who never complain. Therefore the people you see complaining on the forums are a fraction of an already small fraction. Therefore they must be in the minority.

……………………..

Pretty Pixie.8603:

What we do have is a large sample of very disgruntled customers. A statistical majority. If your illogical theory was true, no company would ever address the concerns of their forum communities.

And yet EAnet quickly backed out of their plans of charging individually for colored commander tags.

A large sample of very disgruntled customers is not a statistical majority. They’re just that: a large sample. Maybe a few hundreds of upset posters on the forums. That’s few compared to the hundreds of thousands you never hear of. Even if every single forum poster would be unhappy about the preorder they couldn’t reach a majority because the forum is such a small part compared to the entire player base on the planet.

your big mistake is assuming the people you have no information on at all, are not represented by a vocal minority.

it is theoretically possible that everyone you have not heard from is happy, it is also theoretically possible everyone you havent heard from is unhappy.

but the reality is this is one of the biggest controversies yet, that means its likely that more people are concerned with this than previous issues.

So people at anet have to take a guess, is it more likely that these are the only people that are upset? or are we messing with a signifigant portion the playerbase

signifigant doesnt need to be a majority by the way. If even 10% of people dont buy because of this, it means they would have been better off using a different plan. 20% would be a large loss compared to what they could have done.

its not about majorities, its about maximizing the sales/profits of your product, with the best price points and marketing.

most especially since, their profits are not only on sales, but on gem sales, and statistics show that the more people who are actively playing your game the more they will spend on gems.

basically they picked wrong, they put together the wrong packages/prices or this controversy wouldnt have occured at all. When you pick a good price point/market well you almost never get noticeable blowback. Even people who think its not feasible for them dont make a big enough fuss about it to cause this.

and more unrelated threads merged together, apparently this should be renamed the “general negativity regarding HoT megathread with a sprinkle of white knighting and name calling”

it is indeed a wonder how anyone keeps track of the conversations that have been taking place when 2 or 3 threads get merged into this one. but apparently they’re “reading” (just not this thread)

phys.7689:

basically they picked wrong, they put together the wrong packages/prices or this controversy wouldnt have occured at all. When you pick a good price point/market well you almost never get noticeable blowback. Even people who think its not feasible for them dont make a big enough fuss about it to cause this.

I’m a lapsed player already, if I’ve been playing an hour per week for the last few months, I’d be surprised. Stepping away completely is not only very easy right now, it’s also very likely, because the expansion doesn’t look good to me. Sure, I don’t know what’s going to be in it just yet, but nothing revealed so far hits any marks with me.

I was going to buy it anyway, pretty much regardless of the price, but I can’t get behind how they’re putting the kitten thing in the market, so it’ll likely be a skip.

chemiclord.3978:

Can we just all be perfectly honest with ourselves here?

I suspect, the bulk of the complaints REALLY centers around the base edition not getting a bonus character slot. Let’s cut through the noise and just say it outright.

“Veteran” players want a kittening character slot, because they’ve filled all their slots and don’t feel they should have to buy another one on top of the expansion to play a Revenant. They feel this is cheap because GW1 handed out slots to play with in each expansion.

So can we just SAY THAT? Can we stop trying to couch it in bullkitten so that we don’t sound like “entitled brats?” Rather than run around in stupid circles over legality, quibbling semantics over whether or not the core game is actually “free” or “not free”… just say what we want here.

Give me a character slot and I’ll stop complaining.

I’m not actually complaining now, but I’ll stop if they give me a character slot.

I’m not painting unhappy customers as a neglible group. I simply showed you why they are a vocal minority and not a majority like they think they are.

Assuming the playerbase of Guild Wars 2 has 500,000 people. 5000 angry reddit posters would be 1%. Yeah..I think Arenanet will probably ignore them.

Assuming the playerbase of Guild Wars 2 has 500,000 people. 5000 angry reddit posters would be 1%. Yeah..I think Arenanet will probably ignore them.

Assuming the playerbase of Guild Wars 2 has 500,000 people. 5000 angry reddit posters would be 1%. Yeah..I think Arenanet will probably ignore them.

Assuming the playerbase of Guild Wars 2 has 500,000 people. 5000 angry reddit posters would be 1%. Yeah..I think Arenanet will probably ignore them.

Are we done here? I think we’re done here.

STOP comparing the hours of the base gameand how much is worth whit the expansion , yes gw 2 some one has 10k hours whit out paying more then the first 60$ or less but that is not the point ,what hOT and only HOT has to offer for those price 50/75/100% has to offer to us .
Yes gw2 core game is awesome and iv got 3k hours in it even do i don’t like few things like no rading etc etc but still love it and playing it from time to time , meanwhile hot has so little to offer from the announced so far and i cant justify those money for that expansion so little we know for it as well and so little is shown .
sorry for bad english long time support on a net since 2006 but the hot is overpriced hope u change it ty in advance

GeekDavid.2786:

WiredHot.7651:

This is good to remember. People that say they know the majority of players are angry/quitting the game/not ever going to buy HoT are simply exaggerating.

Exaggerate no more. I am gone from GW2 and may very well not return. Arenanet has done a real disservice to this long standing player who was part of this franchise going way back to GW1.

Out of here,

[/quote]

If they don’t address these problems soon, and satisfactorily, I’ll probably be joining you.[/quote]

I’m mad but I most certainly didn’t want this to happen. I guess it was unavoidable.

1%?? where you get this number from? you lost count how many players will get in to forum. any how many is angry about this.

what i can see is at lease 1k players in this post angry about pricing.

Pretty Pixie.8603:

I’m not painting unhappy customers as a neglible group. I simply showed you why they are a vocal minority and not a majority like they think they are.

Assuming the playerbase of Guild Wars 2 has 500,000 people. 5000 angry reddit posters would be 1%. Yeah..I think Arenanet will probably ignore them.

Assuming the playerbase of Guild Wars 2 has 500,000 people. 5000 angry reddit posters would be 1%. Yeah..I think Arenanet will probably ignore them.

Assuming the playerbase of Guild Wars 2 has 500,000 people. 5000 angry reddit posters would be 1%. Yeah..I think Arenanet will probably ignore them.

Assuming the playerbase of Guild Wars 2 has 500,000 people. 5000 angry reddit posters would be 1%. Yeah..I think Arenanet will probably ignore them.

Are we done here? I think we’re done here.

NecroN.8306:

GeekDavid.2786:

WiredHot.7651:

This is good to remember. People that say they know the majority of players are angry/quitting the game/not ever going to buy HoT are simply exaggerating.

Exaggerate no more. I am gone from GW2 and may very well not return. Arenanet has done a real disservice to this long standing player who was part of this franchise going way back to GW1.

Out of here,

If they don’t address these problems soon, and satisfactorily, I’ll probably be joining you.[/quote]

I’m mad but I most certainly didn’t want this to happen. I guess it was unavoidable.[/quote]

I’m giving them an opportunity to rectify the error.

But it’s a limited time offer (they should understand that concept).

JUN YANG.4328:

1%?? where you get this number from? you lost count how many players will get in to forum. any how many is angry about this.

what i can see is at lease 1k players in this post angry about pricing.

Pretty Pixie.8603:

I’m not painting unhappy customers as a neglible group. I simply showed you why they are a vocal minority and not a majority like they think they are.

Assuming the playerbase of Guild Wars 2 has 500,000 people. 5000 angry reddit posters would be 1%. Yeah..I think Arenanet will probably ignore them.

Assuming the playerbase of Guild Wars 2 has 500,000 people. 5000 angry reddit posters would be 1%. Yeah..I think Arenanet will probably ignore them.

Assuming the playerbase of Guild Wars 2 has 500,000 people. 5000 angry reddit posters would be 1%. Yeah..I think Arenanet will probably ignore them.

Assuming the playerbase of Guild Wars 2 has 500,000 people. 5000 angry reddit posters would be 1%. Yeah..I think Arenanet will probably ignore them.

Are we done here? I think we’re done here.

Sorry, that was me quoting Straylight to show he’s doing exactly what he said he didn’t do.

Looks like I cut his name off the quote.

He has no grasp of how statistics work, don’t worry about it.

Scoundrel.2139:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20130604134550-284615-15-statistics-that-should-change-the-business-world-but-haven-t

Interesting reading, for those who are sure that only those being vocal are those unhappy with the HoT situation.

Great post, as I have a background in sales as well.

I’m a big believer in #3.
3. The probability of selling to an existing customer is 60 – 70%. The probability of selling to a new prospect is 5-20% – Marketing Metrics.

Which is why bundling the core game with HoT DOESN’T make sense.

1 thing can explain. they need money to survive. pre-purchase can gave income NOW.

any also explain why they release new item on TP more frequently. cut of the team to develop LS. half year item. this can cut off lots of cost.

MMOGamer.6175:

Scoundrel.2139:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20130604134550-284615-15-statistics-that-should-change-the-business-world-but-haven-t

Interesting reading, for those who are sure that only those being vocal are those unhappy with the HoT situation.

Great post, as I have a background in sales as well.

I’m a big believer in #3.
3. The probability of selling to an existing customer is 60 – 70%. The probability of selling to a new prospect is 5-20% – Marketing Metrics.

Which is why bundling the core game with HoT DOESN’T make sense.

Gotta love when mods merge threads and the discussion gets confused and how it grows exponentially :P

JUN YANG.4328:

1 thing can explain. they need money to survive. pre-purchase can gave income NOW.

any also explain why they release new item on TP more frequently. cut of the team to develop LS. half year item. this can cut off lots of cost.

MMOGamer.6175:

Scoundrel.2139:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20130604134550-284615-15-statistics-that-should-change-the-business-world-but-haven-t

Interesting reading, for those who are sure that only those being vocal are those unhappy with the HoT situation.

Great post, as I have a background in sales as well.

I’m a big believer in #3.
3. The probability of selling to an existing customer is 60 – 70%. The probability of selling to a new prospect is 5-20% – Marketing Metrics.

Which is why bundling the core game with HoT DOESN’T make sense.

I agree, but those 60-70% are automatic “in the bag” sales, no effort required.

Here’s what I’m thinking. Somewhere in this thread there is a link from the Korean(IIRC?) securities/stock exchange which basically stated that 2 million copies of HoT have to be sold. Bundling the core game with HoT allows sales of the core game to be counted as HoT sales and vise versa which COULD NOT be done if the core game was a stand alone purchase.

MMOGamer.6175:

JUN YANG.4328:

1 thing can explain. they need money to survive. pre-purchase can gave income NOW.

any also explain why they release new item on TP more frequently. cut of the team to develop LS. half year item. this can cut off lots of cost.

MMOGamer.6175:

Scoundrel.2139:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20130604134550-284615-15-statistics-that-should-change-the-business-world-but-haven-t

Interesting reading, for those who are sure that only those being vocal are those unhappy with the HoT situation.

Great post, as I have a background in sales as well.

I’m a big believer in #3.
3. The probability of selling to an existing customer is 60 – 70%. The probability of selling to a new prospect is 5-20% – Marketing Metrics.

Which is why bundling the core game with HoT DOESN’T make sense.

I agree, but those 60-70% are automatic “in the bag” sales, no effort required.

Here’s what I’m thinking. Somewhere in this thread there is a link from the Korean(IIRC?) securities/stock exchange which basically stated that 2 million copies of HoT have to be sold. Bundling the core game with HoT allows sales of the core game to be counted as HoT sales and vise versa which COULD NOT be done if the core game was a stand alone purchase.

Not including the character slot seems a lazy way to inflate earnings so they can make their salestarget.

Instead of relying on giving the existing customer value and hope on more word of mouth and goodwill to drive gemstore sales, they went for the cynical cashgrab.

I just want HoT to be $40 instead of $50… is that too much to ask?

One gigantic thread to rule them all.

I hope it won’t surpass the uncrowned king of the forums.
This gem here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/gf-left-me-coz-of-ladderboard/first

MMOGamer.6175:

Here’s what I’m thinking. Somewhere in this thread there is a link from the Korean(IIRC?) securities/stock exchange which basically stated that 2 million copies of HoT have to be sold. Bundling the core game with HoT allows sales of the core game to be counted as HoT sales and vise versa which COULD NOT be done if the core game was a stand alone purchase.

That data stated what Anet would need to sell in order to meet their projected earnings. Which was 2 million sales at $50 each. Basically it’s the number of copies the firm thought Anet could push, and the price that would need to be in order to meet expectations.

Including the core game doesn’t impact the projection, it only gives the possibility to artificially inflate the number of products sold if they want to count it that way. That number isn’t all that important, as it has no impact on profits. If they were to actually count each HoT sale as 2 sales, 2 million copies would only meet 50% of their projected earnings.

mrstealth.6701:

MMOGamer.6175:

Here’s what I’m thinking. Somewhere in this thread there is a link from the Korean(IIRC?) securities/stock exchange which basically stated that 2 million copies of HoT have to be sold. Bundling the core game with HoT allows sales of the core game to be counted as HoT sales and vise versa which COULD NOT be done if the core game was a stand alone purchase.

That data stated what Anet would need to sell in order to meet their projected earnings. Which was 2 million sales at $50 each. Basically it’s the number of copies the firm thought Anet could push, and the price that would need to be in order to meet expectations.

Including the core game doesn’t impact the projection, it only gives the possibility to artificially inflate the number of products sold if they want to count it that way. That number isn’t all that important, as it has no impact on profits. If they were to actually count each HoT sale as 2 sales, 2 million copies would only meet 50% of their projected earnings.

But by bundling the core game, each sale is guaranteed to be a HoT sale INSTEAD of the GW2 core game standalone.

MMOGamer.6175:

DieselFueled.3257:

Phoenixlin.8624:

Biohazard.7523:

warbignime.4610:

The people complaining on forum, I can guarantee you most of them will but HoT they second they hear people talking about it after release. This is what happens every times.

They wont buy HOT because they dont have money. If you cant afford something you wont buy it. Its simple. People who have money dont give a kitten about the price.

I am probably earning more money than your whole family kiddo. But it doesn’t make me kim kardashian that throws money every single, overpriced, idiotic stuff unlike you.

If true, you’re extremely wealthy and complaining about 10 bucks. From a company that has given you a mmo for 3 years with no monthly payments or pay 2 win features. You’re that wealthy and you fail to see the value in HoT?

What is this give? When did GW2 go FREE to play from BUY to play?

To many of us mmos traditionally had monthly fees associated with the use of said mmos servers and support staff. Anet changed that for many and did so without giving rich people a significant advantage in the game.

You conveniently left that part of my sentence excluded.

MMOGamer.6175:

mrstealth.6701:

MMOGamer.6175:

Here’s what I’m thinking. Somewhere in this thread there is a link from the Korean(IIRC?) securities/stock exchange which basically stated that 2 million copies of HoT have to be sold. Bundling the core game with HoT allows sales of the core game to be counted as HoT sales and vise versa which COULD NOT be done if the core game was a stand alone purchase.

That data stated what Anet would need to sell in order to meet their projected earnings. Which was 2 million sales at $50 each. Basically it’s the number of copies the firm thought Anet could push, and the price that would need to be in order to meet expectations.

Including the core game doesn’t impact the projection, it only gives the possibility to artificially inflate the number of products sold if they want to count it that way. That number isn’t all that important, as it has no impact on profits. If they were to actually count each HoT sale as 2 sales, 2 million copies would only meet 50% of their projected earnings.

But by bundling the core game, each sale is guaranteed to be a HoT sale INSTEAD of the GW2 core game standalone.

The only benefit there is that the bundled price is $10 higher than the standalone was before. In reality, the bundle isn’t going to mean much, as bundle or not, expansions are mostly purchased by existing players. Most of their potential new customers were already picked up during those 75% off sales, and the convention/marketing hype over the past months. There aren’t going to be many people left that care about getting the core game.

How many people that passed on GW2 at $10 are actually going to pay $50 for it because it’s getting a little more content?

What Anet has done is try to make a more tempting deal for people that are unlikely to buy GW2/HoT at all, while at the same time angering the people that were most likely to buy it.

If Anet wants to actually get more paying gem customers out of this, they should give existing players that free copy to gift to friends that are unsure about the game.

Will we get to 5K responses without an official response??

I say yes

mrstealth.6701:

DieselFueled.3257:

… They have already offered refunds going back 30 and in some reported cases 60 days on GW2 purchases towards HoT upgrades. They changed their mind on how they wanted to distribute the game which made it way easier for new players. I bought my second account during the 10 dollar sale. Do I feel slighted? No.

A refund offer that requires deleting their existing account. And if they have bought any gems in that time, they’re out that money as it’s not refunded.

And only if they purchased the game from the GW2 website, not from any other sources.

Scoundrel.2139:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20130604134550-284615-15-statistics-that-should-change-the-business-world-but-haven-t

Excellent source, Scoundrel. I’m repeating this info below, for people who don’t wish to click the link. For those that want more data, the link sites statistical data sources for each item.

1. Price is not the main reason for customer churn, it is actually due to the overall poor quality of customer service.
2. A customer is 4 times more likely to defect to a competitor if the problem is service-related than price- or product-related.
3. The probability of selling to an existing customer is 60 – 70%. The probability of selling to a new prospect is 5-20%.
4. For every customer complaint there are 26 other unhappy customers who have remained silent.
5. A 2% increase in customer retention has the same effect as decreasing costs by 10%.

6. 96% of unhappy customers don’t complain, however 91% of those will simply leave and never come back.
7. A dissatisfied customer will tell between 9-15 people about their experience. Around 13% of dissatisfied customers tell more than 20 people.
8. Happy customers who get their issue resolved tell about 4-6 people about their experience.
9. 70% of buying experiences are based on how the customer feels they are being treated.
10. 55% of customers would pay extra to guarantee a better service.

11. Customers who rate you 5 on a scale from 1 to 5 are six times more likely to buy from you again, compared to ‘only’ giving you a score of 4.8.
12. It takes 12 positive experiences to make up for one unresolved negative experience.
13. A 5% reduction in the customer defection rate can increase profits by 5 – 95%.
14. It costs 6–7 times more to acquire a new customer than retain an existing one.
15. eCommerce spending for new customers is on average $24.50, compared to $52.50 for repeat customers.

I was personally expecting thirty/thirty-five USD for the expansion and a character slot. I won’t buy the expansion until it’s proven to be worth the full fifty or if they lower the price. I would consider buying it off of what’s been revealed if the price is changed to thirty USD, or if it’s changed to forty USD and included 800 gems (equivalent to a character slot).

For the expansion to be worth the full fifty I expect a release date within a month, a massive information dump for all of the things they have yet to show, and enough content to justify the price (I felt that Eye of the North was an acceptable content to price ratio).

It’s unsettling to me that there hasn’t been an official response to this massive thread other than the “yes it’s fifty for the expansion alone” reply.

Seera.5916:

Aragorn.5462:

I just want to put my voice in here, and I know I’m late to the party, but as someone who has been playing Guild Wars for 8 years (both 1 and 2) I am sorely disappointed in ANET for slapping its vet players in the face. We are the ones who have kept the game going and profitable for them.

I completely understand they want to encourage new people to come check out the game, and I understand their reasoning for including the base game in the expansion. HOWEVER, they should have either had a combo price for that or have a different benefit for those who already have an account. It seems ridiculous that new players get 5 free character slots while vet players get….crickets?

I have normally been very supportive of ANET in the past. Guild Wars 1 and all its expansions were not a disappointment by any stretch of the imagination, it was fantastic. Guild Wars 2 base game was all it promised to be and more. There have been some experiments that didn’t go well, but they have normally done a great job of taking care of their core players who keep playing this game everyday.

I am hoping ANET will give us a response, even if it is something to the effect “We have heard you and are looking into a better solution” would be better than the echos of our frustration going around. I know they don’t want to speak out of turn or make things worse, but ANET please, you’ve had sufficient time to look at this and realize that your good intentions have backfired. I know you guys are good at coming up with solutions that work for everyone, just let us know what you’re doing to improve the situation. Thanks!

The devs have posted at least once saying that they are listening to feedback and passing it along to the appropriate people.

That may as well be an automated response, they use that statement for pretty much everything.

JUN YANG.4328:

1 thing can explain. they need money to survive. pre-purchase can gave income NOW.

any also explain why they release new item on TP more frequently. cut of the team to develop LS. half year item. this can cut off lots of cost.

MMOGamer.6175:

Scoundrel.2139:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20130604134550-284615-15-statistics-that-should-change-the-business-world-but-haven-t

Interesting reading, for those who are sure that only those being vocal are those unhappy with the HoT situation.

Great post, as I have a background in sales as well.

I’m a big believer in #3.
3. The probability of selling to an existing customer is 60 – 70%. The probability of selling to a new prospect is 5-20% – Marketing Metrics.

Which is why bundling the core game with HoT DOESN’T make sense.

See that just make me less inclined to buy the expansion, if they are in financial dire straits, I feel like I’m better off cutting my losses rather than getting further invested in a game that is just going to disappear when NCsoft pulls an EA on Arenanet, like the did with City of Heroes.

mrstealth.6701:

MMOGamer.6175:

Here’s what I’m thinking. Somewhere in this thread there is a link from the Korean(IIRC?) securities/stock exchange which basically stated that 2 million copies of HoT have to be sold. Bundling the core game with HoT allows sales of the core game to be counted as HoT sales and vise versa which COULD NOT be done if the core game was a stand alone purchase.

That data stated what Anet would need to sell in order to meet their projected earnings. Which was 2 million sales at $50 each. Basically it’s the number of copies the firm thought Anet could push, and the price that would need to be in order to meet expectations.

Including the core game doesn’t impact the projection, it only gives the possibility to artificially inflate the number of products sold if they want to count it that way. That number isn’t all that important, as it has no impact on profits. If they were to actually count each HoT sale as 2 sales, 2 million copies would only meet 50% of their projected earnings.

Here ya go: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3adxq0/the_real_reason_for_hots_50_price_tag/

The link to Daewoo Securities Jan projections for HoT sales are in that thread.

The problem is more to do with A-Net not treating all customers equally both new and existing. I think we all can appreciate that A-Net can not work or produce content pro-bono forever but that does not mean they should fleece us either, by delivering the Core Game for free for new account holders only and selling the HoT packages to BOTH groups for the same price the perception is that the existing customers are not being given the same value for money on the same deal. It does not matter whether the Core Game is priced in bundle terms at the free price point or not, the existing player base believe it still has a value.

Even disregarding the Core Game for Free issue, the price point values of the Standard/Deluxe versions are questionable with the Ultimate being perhaps the only price point actually approaching value for money.

1. Standard at £35
2. Deluxe at £60 with about £10 or less worth of substance and some fluff/kudos items
3. Ultimate at £80 with about £50 worth of substance and some fluff/kudos items

All versions with the Core Game (ROM Value £10 based on recent sales) to NEW account holders ONLY. This equates to in value for money terms…

1. HoT being at £20 for Ultimate for new account holders
2. HoT being at £25 for Standard for new account holders
3. HoT being at £30 for Ultimate for existing account holders
4. HoT being at £35 for Standard for existing account holders
5. HoT being at £40 for Deluxe for new account holders
6. HoT being at £50 for Deluxe for existing account holders

This changes slightly if the Fluff/Kudos items are truly worth £20/1600 Gems/200 Gold (based on GW2 exchange rates at last check) or more…

• Minature Revenant Rylock
• Revenant Finisher
• Mordremoth’s Bane Guild Hall Decoration
• Heart of Thorns Glider Skin

Ok, I have bought the HoT but that does not mean I am happy with the state of play nor consider it fair and reasonable. An equitable answer would be for A-Net to offer in-game content of substance as reasonable compensation to help balance the scales a bit. A suitable settlement in my mind would be something of the order of a character slot for ALL existing account holders that did not benefit from the Core Game allegedly being included as advertised – even just 400 Gems (or 50 Gold) to existing account holders might help to sooth the tempers of those that feel the state of play is unfair.

And WRT sales figures, a good will gesture that has only a notionally infinitely renewable non-capital cost impact now (e.g. GEMs) should not detrimentally effect the annual/quarterly sales figures (in fact it would probably do the opposite) but the absence of it will almost certainly have long term repercussions to profits received on such items in the future based on what I have been reading in this thread.

i am just wondering if i ardy have gw2 and i play it now 3years almost if i buy the 99eur one in game from shop from my other e-mail thos it ad it to my currend acca?

Pretty much everyone in our small Aus guild was in the ’can’t wait’ category and would of pre-ordered right away but with little known about how much content there actually is plus our kitten exchange rate, everyone has second thoughts.
A poll on our forums shows that not a single member has pre-ordered yet.
One vote is in ‘Not interested in returning for HoT anymore’ and the rest are all in ‘Not going to pre-order but might get after release’.
(I’m sure the odd member has pre-ordered but has note voted though)

I’m happy to sit and wait.
It’s early days and there is no hurry.

I’m just hoping Anet either has a lot of unannounced content up their sleeve to justify the cost or they adjust/fix the current pricing structure and inclusions.
Yes, there should be some incentive to actually pre-order!
If not then I’m hoping that once it hits the shelves in Aus, the price will have to be adjusted or else it will be almost as much as complete new AAA games.

WSG Delen.9203:

even just 400 Gems (or 50 Gold) to existing account holders might help to sooth the tempers of those that feel the state of play is unfair.

And WRT sales figures, a good will gesture that has only a notionally infinitely renewable non-capital cost impact now (e.g. GEMs) should not detrimentally effect the annual/quarterly sales figures (in fact it would probably do the opposite) but the absence of it will almost certainly have long term repercussions to profits received on such items in the future based on what I have been reading in this thread.

Actually adding 400 gems to all accounts who already have Core Game, will just increase the profits(from my point of view), because most people will want the additional character slot. The groups will be divided in 2:
- People who pay with gold, which will cause a large price per gem, which is a bonus for Anet, since more people will feel better at spending 5-10$ for the additional 400gems
- People who will just buy the gems.

How about some vanity item or a title or something. Really, just giving us nothing is a slap in the face.