Guild Wars 2

Galen Grey.4709:

minbariguy.7504:

Galen Grey.4709:

Funny I thought they’re giving you the character slot not holding on to it so tightly yet you’re still say you’re quiting so who’s exactly setting the precedent here. Arenanet who gave in to what players wanted and gave the free character slot away or you who’s essentially telling them next time dont bother, sell that character slot rather then giving it away because its not like we’ll be happy about it so whats the point?

They are only giving the character slot to those who pre-purchase the expansion. I will not pre-purchase. Therefore:

They are most certainly not giving me the character slot.

Because apparently simply giving them my money at the same time they provide the product I am paying for isn’t good enough for them.

Thats the deal with bonuses, you go out of your way (pre-purchase), they go out of their way (give you bonuses).

if you’re not willing to go out of your way and you have every right not to why do they need to give you anything more then what you’re buying which is the expansion?

Thing is once you’re satisfied that whatever they’re offering is worth what they’re asking for why is that a problem? If you intended to buy anyway pre-purchase 1 day before release and you’re golden. Will that 1 day change anything?

problem with your thinking is,
all the cries and complaints were not about prepurchase not having better bonuses, they were about the fact that the price tag was excessive and was delivering too little to players who previously owned the game.
people realized they would likely be playing 60 dollars to access the content.

adding the charachters as a prepurchase bonus was a marketing tactic to take that feeling, assuage it, split the groups complaining up, and encourage prepurchase sales.

excellent tactic, but it doesnt address the underlying issue.

It would be like if people complained that unskilled laborers werent getting paid enough, and the solution presented was that unskilled laborers who decide to work for the government will get 10% off their rent.

now you have people arguing about whether government employees deserve a rent cut more than non government employees, and how if people really want a rent cut they should work for the government.

Great tactic, but they didnt really solve the main issues, they just diverted peoples attention, and created more incentive for people to prepurchase.

phys.7689:

problem with your thinking is,
all the cries and complaints were not about prepurchase not having better bonuses, they were about the fact that the price tag was excessive and was delivering too little to players who previously owned the game.
people realized they would likely be playing 60 dollars to access the content.

adding the charachters as a prepurchase bonus was a marketing tactic to take that feeling, assuage it, split the groups complaining up, and encourage prepurchase sales.

excellent tactic, but it doesnt address the underlying issue.

It would be like if people complained that unskilled laborers werent getting paid enough, and the solution presented was that unskilled laborers who decide to work for the government will get 10% off their rent.

now you have people arguing about whether government employees deserve a rent cut more than non government employees, and how if people really want a rent cut they should work for the government.

Great tactic, but they didnt really solve the main issues, they just diverted peoples attention, and created more incentive for people to prepurchase.

That wasnt my thinking at all, I was merely replying to minbariguy who’s issue is the free char slot.

Yes people feel the product which so far hasnt revealed its major content (PVE and challenging content) isnt big enough to justify the price tag and thats not premature?

Thing is adding free stuff isnt really that straight forward for oh so many reasons. When Anet came up with their initial offering there is no doubt their sales were also expecting X amount would be generated post launch from character slot sales. That X amount was without a doubt factored in the targets they are expected to meet. Giving that away will naturally hit them negatively and negatively in the sense that it will appear they have under delivered. Is it really that unfair they’re tieing this to prepurchase and at least use to this to at least mitigate that a bit by having strong prepurchase figures?

Whats the big deal anyway?
when exactly are veterans going to buy HoT for the most part? On the day of release? A month later? When Living world season 3 starts? When the next expansion hits? Baring some major issue like unable to afford it most veterans that intend to buy HoT (if they’re not convinced its a good deal thats another story of course) will do so close to its release anyway.

That analogy is wrong. No one is asked to do any thing they’re not going to do like people are in your example. It would be more accurate to say those unskilled laborers have a 10 day job to do. It starts on day X but for those who report at least a day earlier they will get the 10% rent discount.

Galen Grey.4709:

Heylel.2109:

I was slightly curious about the new expansion, wondering if it was to introduce new classes\skills that would have made me interested again, but €45 isn’t the price I’d pay to try it. I’d rather toss that money for Elite: Dangerous, which actually costs less and is a full game, since in my youth I spent much time playing the original Elite and Frontier games.

Just for accuracy’s sake but Elite dangerous really doesnt cost less. Elite dangerous is doing exactly the same thing as Gw2 is with regards of its expansion with the exception they’re charging a little more if you dont have the core game already. Buying the latest expansion will come with the core game if you dont have it and it costs $60. if you have the core game already the expansion costs $50.

you can still buy the core game alone for $45 for now but then again you can also buy the core gw2 game from various outlets like amazon for $20. No matter how you look at it Elite dangerous doesnt cost less then Gw2 it costs a little more actually.

My apologies, especially for the prices in Euro, but on Steam it costs €37 for me (Pretty sure at launch was €50), and Horizons (The first paid expansion.) comes with a €12.50 discount for all existing players. As you said, Horizons will include the core game, but again there will be Loyalty benefits included a new spaceship.

Now, if I had paid for the games on Day one (Which actually I did for GW2), it would’ve been €105 (60 Core Game + 45 HoT) for Guild Wars 2 vs € 88 (50 Core Game + 38 Horizons) on Elite: Dangerous. A whopping €27 difference and (preordering) I get also a new Ship, while ANet won’t even give us a new Character Slot with the standard edition of HoT.

Horizons comes for €5 more, but it comes with ALL the content released so far, while HoT will lack (As you explained in the second part of your post.) all the Living Story content. And again, pre-ordering (So just reserving the copy for no additional price.) will give you bonuses in the space game while nothing in the fantasy one.

Now tell me the company which is making the player feeling better about the purchase.

Now whats living story…. wow thats a hard question. So starting about february 2013 Arenanet started a system they called living story. Basically every 2 weeks Arenanet would release an update that contained a story instance / other goodies where they would move forward the game’s story line. Season 1 ended march 2014 after 26 episodes (not all of them were living story related, some included SAB etc..)
Season 1 was unfortunately temporary, ie if you missed an episode thats it you cant play it again. A lot of people had issues with that. Another issue people had is they found each release to be smallish (each story instance was about 30 mins long give or take, they had achievements you could do that would provide more playtime but still it felt like the pace of the story was kinda slow)

Arenanet addressed these concerns with their Season 2 releases. Now each episode included 4-5 story instances while still keeping the 2 week interval between releases but to make up for the extra load season 2 was split into 2 and there was a break inbetween the first part and the 2nd part.

Season 2 started november 2014 and ended january 2015. Season 2 is also replayable. each episode was given for free to all those who simply logged even for 1 second during the 2 week interval where that episode was running or it can be purchased for 200 gems per episode for those who missed it. There are 8 episodes in all (with 4-5 instances in each)

season 2 story ended exactly at the point where the expansion starts off. Season 2 also picked up where season 1 left off. Essentially season 1 and 2 are the lore behind the expension so to speak, only instead of it being simple background story we got to play it all which is pretty awesome in my opinion.

If you want to know what the story was all about its summerized here:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Living_World_season_1
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Living_World_season_2

I see, so more cash to shell out in case I wanted to play Season 2 and lost esperiences for Season 1.

Thanks for your reply tho, the part about LS was neatly complete and clear.

@Heylel:

I’m just making a correction to that quote you posted. Living Story Season 2 started in July 2014, not November 2014. Whoever wrote that must’ve forgotten about Drytop.

Heylel.2109:

My apologies, especially for the prices in Euro, but on Steam it costs €37 for me (Pretty sure at launch was €50), and Horizons (The first paid expansion.) comes with a €12.50 discount for all existing players. As you said, Horizons will include the core game, but again there will be Loyalty benefits included a new spaceship.

no need to apologize you did nothing that you should apologize for.

I quoted dollar price from the official site, $45 is about 37 Euro give or take. Like I said you can also buy Gw2 from places like amazon for around 20 euros. Also for clairification horizons doesnt exactly come with a new starship for existing players, it comes with the ability to buy that variant. you still need to buy it in game with in game money but at least it gives you the options that other players will not have.

Heylel.2109:

Now, if I had paid for the games on Day one (Which actually I did for GW2), it would’ve been €105 (60 Core Game + 45 HoT) for Guild Wars 2 vs € 88 (50 Core Game + 38 Horizons) on Elite: Dangerous. A whopping €27 difference and (preordering) I get also a new Ship, while ANet won’t even give us a new Character Slot with the standard edition of HoT.

Thats one way to look at it, another way to look at it is in Gw2 in 3 years you paid 105 euro while in case of Elite dangerous in 1 year you paid 88. You also need to compare the size of both offering. Gw2 may have cost 10 euro more at launch but had a lot more content suffice to say Gw2 was in development for 5 years prior to release while Elite dangerous only took 2 years to develop. Different expenses.

Heylel.2109:

Horizons comes for €5 more, but it comes with ALL the content released so far, while HoT will lack (As you explained in the second part of your post.) all the Living Story content. And again, pre-ordering (So just reserving the copy for no additional price.) will give you bonuses in the space game while nothing in the fantasy one.

HoT may lack living story releases but it will include all the features released since launch. Elite dangerous didnt have anything like the living story it only released feature updates. Actually after writing this i realized Elite dangerous did have something kinda similar after all, which is the community events it did. Building the space station, exploration data etc.. Not really the same scope but close enough. Those are not included in horizons are they? once they’re gone they’re gone. Same issue was with S1, people wanted the opportunity to replay them and anet complied. Is giving what people wanted really that bad?

Also you’re incorrect. you only get the cobra mk4 if you preorder horizons likewise you’ll get a free character slot if you preorder HoT.

Heylel.2109:

Now tell me the company which is making the player feeling better about the purchase.

As someone who owns both games and both expansions (to be fair I didnt buy horizons, I just have the lifetime expansion pass) I am actually happier with Gw2 and I’ll tell you why. The reason I am happier with Gw2 is Frontier made a huge mistake. Rather then taking time and develop a complete expansion they’re essentially splitting it in pieces. I’d actually be angry if I didnt have the lifetime pass as a lot of players are. Why didnt frontier take another year and actually delivered a complete expansion? I mean, landing only on bodies that have no atmosphere and being unable to get out for a walk? those are big issues. This way of course they get to charge us 38 euro every year though and thats something you’re not considering when comparing the price of both games.

Heylel.2109:

I see, so more cash to shell out in case I wanted to play Season 2 and lost esperiences for Season 1.

Thanks for your reply tho, the part about LS was neatly complete and clear.

Yes though you can buy season 2 with gems so you can work in game and buy it using in game money just like you’ll need to buy the cobra mk4…. okey it will definitely take longer to buy season 2 but its possible. As for lost experiences, well there is no way to replay Elite dangerous story either. Players who join today will have missed all the community events that happened so far as well as missed all the story-line that happened so far. Horizons doesnt include them either.

Personally I am still confused about the free character slot.

Am I right to assume that pre-purchasing the base version of the expansion gives my account, which has been created on day 1, an extra character slot?

What happens if I Pre-purchase the Deluxe version, do I get 2 slots?

Galen Grey.4709:

I quoted dollar price from the official site, $45 is about 37 Euro give or take.

Sadly, you need to take into account different VAT for Europe, on the official site it asks for € 49.90 to me, probably taking into account I’m connecting from italy. Need to see if Steam has a pre-order, even if (Due to Elite and Frontier being part of my adolescence.) I’d love to get both retail versions for Core Game and Horizons.

Also for clairification horizons doesnt exactly come with a new starship for existing players, it comes with the ability to buy that variant. you still need to buy it in game with in game money but at least it gives you the options that other players will not have.

Was pretty sure they stated that the MkIV was to be added to your kitten nal\shipyard\not sure how they called it.

Thats one way to look at it, another way to look at it is in Gw2 in 3 years you paid 105 euro while in case of Elite dangerous in 1 year you paid 88. You also need to compare the size of both offering. Gw2 may have cost 10 euro more at launch but had a lot more content suffice to say Gw2 was in development for 5 years prior to release while Elite dangerous only took 2 years to develop. Different expenses.

That’s true, but if we have to be honest, Braben had stated multiple times he was “working on something Elite-related” way prior to Dangerous. And it took 7-9 years for him, accordly to the sources, for the development of Frontier. So I’d kinda consider these last two years just the time it took the product to take it’s final shape.

HoT may lack living story releases but it will include all the features released since launch. Elite dangerous didnt have anything like the living story it only released feature updates. Actually after writing this i realized Elite dangerous did have something kinda similar after all, which is the community events it did. Building the space station, exploration data etc.. Not really the same scope but close enough. Those are not included in horizons are they? once they’re gone they’re gone. Same issue was with S1, people wanted the opportunity to replay them and anet complied. Is giving what people wanted really that bad?

I thought S1 was gone forever, now you have me a little confused… As far as I understand, the events you’ve listed are live ones, yeah once they’re done they’re gone… But the Elite ones look like social activities that gathered all the players to work together, or at least to try doing so, if that’s what the Living Story was then I’d be alrighty if they’re gone forever. (Maybe like that wind festival they had in the period I played with more frequency.) But in such case, asking money for people to play them it’s wrong in my book. (Personal opinion here, but if ANet has given them for free once, it should be for free forever.)

Also you’re incorrect. you only get the cobra mk4 if you preorder horizons likewise you’ll get a free character slot if you preorder HoT.

Horizons gives you the MkIV with the standard pre-purchase edition, accordly to the website, HoT requires the Deluxe pre-order for it.

As someone who owns both games and both expansions (to be fair I didnt buy horizons, I just have the lifetime expansion pass) I am actually happier with Gw2 and I’ll tell you why. The reason I am happier with Gw2 is Frontier made a huge mistake. Rather then taking time and develop a complete expansion they’re essentially splitting it in pieces. I’d actually be angry if I didnt have the lifetime pass as a lot of players are. Why didnt frontier take another year and actually delivered a complete expansion? I mean, landing only on bodies that have no atmosphere and being unable to get out for a walk? those are big issues. This way of course they get to charge us 38 euro every year though and thats something you’re not considering when comparing the price of both games.

Of this I was unaware, I’m not too angry for it because I’m used to that from the older games. In these you could literally land only to drop the mining pods, and Landing was a freaky scary experience. (Usually took me between the 15-30 minutes to land, but I’ve always been bad at landing in many games…) But that said, I understand your disappointment. Since you own Dangerous too, I’d like to ask you more about it, but I can use PMs for that.

Yes though you can buy season 2 with gems so you can work in game and buy it using in game money just like you’ll need to buy the cobra mk4…. okey it will definitely take longer to buy season 2 but its possible. As for lost experiences, well there is no way to replay Elite dangerous story either. Players who join today will have missed all the community events that happened so far as well as missed all the story-line that happened so far. Horizons doesnt include them either.

The difference is that while Elite Dangerous feels more ‘Story Free’, you know better but I think there isn’t a ‘campaign’ made of quests in there, GW2 is more Story Oriented… As far as I understand, like in the previous games, in Dangerous you’re a nameless grunt who joins many others and try to make it big. There isn’t an epic story to complete and be done for, but you struggle every day to live your life. I missed the previous events, it’s alrighty, because I just reached space and that’s where my story begins.

In GW2 is different, the games stresses a lot about the epic story, playing my past and all… I fought the Dragons, played my backstory, will fight the events in HoT. But missing the Live Story will give me some gaps between the storylines.

It’s hard to explain, but Dangerous feels like I’d be set in a living world, playing my part and all. While GW2 is like I’m reading a story, with the cooperative parts being only meant to further my equipments\grow in power. And that’s why the lack of some story-related events makes me feel holes in the narrative. Not sure if I managed to explain myself properly.

Edit

Kitten-nal?

Seriously?

BondageBill.4021:

Galen Grey.4709:

BondageBill.4021:

On the topic of clearly defining what you get for the $50 HoT price tag, I want to know if purchasing HoT will guarantee access to the full LS releases post HoT. Many people are assuming HoT will entitle them to all future content (until the next xpac), but ANet has already shown us that they are willing to charge existing customers for LS content.

didnt they also show us they’re willing to give it to us for free?

though to add to this, we unfortunately also showed them that when they give us stuff for free we use it against them so…..

Frankly, unless otherwise stated by ANet, I can only assume their current LS pricing policy remains intact. I certainly do not want to buy HoT, then get charged for LS content that is likely going to round out the main HoT storyline.

Living Story comes out after the main story line stuff has been done for awhile. If you login during the 2 week window, you’ll get Living Story for free.

Galen Grey.4709:

Thats the deal with bonuses, you go out of your way (pre-purchase), they go out of their way (give you bonuses).

And that’s my problem. A character slot is required in order to access the new profession. It should not be considered a “bonus”.

I have absolutely no problem with them giving extra stuff to people willing to pre-purchase. But when they try to withhold something that should be a standard component of any expansion pack that features a new playable profession and try to pass it off like it’s some wonderful “extra”, I have a problem with that.

They could have given away a thousand extra bonuses and I would have been fine with that. But a character slot is something that I expect to receive when I pay for an expansion that features a new profession. And again, I’m not asking for a “free” character slot. If I’m paying fifty bucks, it should be included in that price.

Slavequo.8493:

Personally I am still confused about the free character slot.

Am I right to assume that pre-purchasing the base version of the expansion gives my account, which has been created on day 1, an extra character slot?

What happens if I Pre-purchase the Deluxe version, do I get 2 slots?

If you bought GW2 before January 23 this year, you will get a free slot if you purchase the base version of HoT from ANet. As of right now, that is a prepurchase bonus. If you buy the Deluxe or Ultimate version from ANet, you get a second slot. The prepurchase bonus slots are applied to accounts, I believe, weekly, so you may not see the bonus slot immediately.

minbariguy.7504:

And that’s my problem. A character slot is required in order to access the new profession. It should not be considered a “bonus”.

What you mean ‘required’?

Heylel.2109:

minbariguy.7504:

And that’s my problem. A character slot is required in order to access the new profession. It should not be considered a “bonus”.

What you mean ‘required’?

You cannot create a revenant without an available character slot. If you do not have one available, ANet is expecting you to either delete an existing character that you have already spent a significant amount of time leveling, or pay an additional ten dollars on top of the fifty dollars you have already paid them for the expansion. Which is absolute rubbish.

Both scenarios are unacceptable, and the only way to avoid them is to give in and pre-purchase. But then, that was the intent all along.

minbariguy.7504:

You cannot create a revenant without an available character slot. If you do not have one available, ANet is expecting you to either delete an existing character that you have already spent a significant amount of time leveling, or pay an additional ten dollars on top of the fifty dollars you have already paid them for the expansion. Which is absolute rubbish.

Both scenarios are unacceptable, and the only way to avoid them is to give in and pre-purchase. But then, that was the intent all along.

Oh, yeah… I agree on that, for a moment I thought you were required to purchase a character slot even if you had a free one already in your account…

By the way, ANet should upgrade the pre-purchase page, because for how I see it there is no mention of a free slot if you buy the regular version. You need to pre-purchase the deluxe edition, that’s €75 for EU people, to get the extra character slot.

Heylel.2109:

Oh, yeah… I agree on that, for a moment I thought you were required to purchase a character slot even if you had a free one already in your account…

SHHH!!! Don’t give them any ideas! :-P

(Kidding!)

(Sort of)

mrstealth.6701:

We have a right to know what our gem purchases are funding

The only right you have in this regard is to know what your gemstore purchase includes for the price of the purchase. Key point is the word, “purchase.”

A gemstore purchase is not an investment in future content granting the purchaser some form of ownership or shareholder status.

You pay for a character slot, you get a character slot. Period.

Should McDonalds have to inform me as to their intent for my cash when I buy a cheeseburger? Of course not. I give them my money, they give me a cheeseburger, end of story.

Heylel.2109:

Galen Grey.4709:

I quoted dollar price from the official site, $45 is about 37 Euro give or take.

Sadly, you need to take into account different VAT for Europe, on the official site it asks for € 49.90 to me, probably taking into account I’m connecting from italy. Need to see if Steam has a pre-order, even if (Due to Elite and Frontier being part of my adolescence.) I’d love to get both retail versions for Core Game and Horizons.

I am in europe too. are you sure you didnt mistakenly check the full horizons price rathre then elite dangerous core game? horizons costs 50 euro with the discount but the base game costs 37.49 for me.

Heylel.2109:

Was pretty sure they stated that the MkIV was to be added to your kitten nal\shipyard\not sure how they called it.

Nope you need to buy it. the bonus is just the ability to buy it anyone who doesnt have that bonus will simply not have an option to buy the ship.

Heylel.2109:

That’s true, but if we have to be honest, Braben had stated multiple times he was “working on something Elite-related” way prior to Dangerous. And it took 7-9 years for him, accordly to the sources, for the development of Frontier. So I’d kinda consider these last two years just the time it took the product to take it’s final shape.

he had the engine but thats just about it. if he had a working prototype i am sure he’d have used that during the kickstarter to entice more people to pledge. He may have had some concepts flashed out and stuff but he pretty much started working on it 2 years ago. So much so those who bought the alpha pledges… 240 euros !!!! were actually involved in the design. You can see those discussions in the official forum under archive\design discussion archive.

Heylel.2109:

I thought S1 was gone forever, now you have me a little confused… As far as I understand, the events you’ve listed are live ones, yeah once they’re done they’re gone…

The story parts yes, but the updates didnt just include stories, they had jumping puzzles, fractals, mini games, new zones… those remain.

Heylel.2109:

But the Elite ones look like social activities that gathered all the players to work together, or at least to try doing so, if that’s what the Living Story was then I’d be alrighty if they’re gone forever.

They were kinda…like for example at one point the nightmare court and the krait formed an alliance. Through that alliance they build a huge tower in the middle of kessex hills and disguised it by magic. When kasmir destroyed the illusion and revealed the tower in the middle of the lake us players worked together to bring the tower down. Long story short we destroyed the tower and from that point on (up to today) all you see is the wreck scattered around from that tower. (some events in the zone changed too but that remained)

Heylel.2109:

(Maybe like that wind festival they had in the period I played with more frequency.) But in such case, asking money for people to play them it’s wrong in my book. (Personal opinion here, but if ANet has given them for free once, it should be for free forever.)

Then for season 2 that was changed. Because people wanted it permanent Anet could no longer do them as open world events like that tower in kessex hills were everyone can work together for a common goal and one that goal is achieved the world changed forever. Cant really repeat that of course. So season 2 was all instances. 4-5 instances of about 30 minutes each. They still had a story that went forward as time went by of course. Additionally each instance had about 3 hard to get achievements and if you got all the achievements for all 4-5 instances you also would get a nice ascended ring. thats what they’re charging for.

Heylel.2109:

Horizons gives you the MkIV with the standard pre-purchase edition, accordly to the website, HoT requires the Deluxe pre-order for it.

Unless you pre-own Gw2 in which case its free. Likewise if you dont pre-own Elite dangerous it will cost you 12.5euros more which is more then the price of a character slot.

Heylel.2109:

The difference is that while Elite Dangerous feels more ‘Story Free’, you know better but I think there isn’t a ‘campaign’ made of quests in there, GW2 is more Story Oriented… As far as I understand, like in the previous games, in Dangerous you’re a nameless grunt who joins many others and try to make it big. There isn’t an epic story to complete and be done for, but you struggle every day to live your life. I missed the previous events, it’s alrighty, because I just reached space and that’s where my story begins.

Yes you’re right there.

Heylel.2109:

In GW2 is different, the games stresses a lot about the epic story, playing my past and all… I fought the Dragons, played my backstory, will fight the events in HoT. But missing the Live Story will give me some gaps between the storylines.

To a degree yes but you can choose to ignore the story in gw2 as well. Gw2 feels like a sandbox / themepark hybrid to me because I can just drop a character in and just pick a direction and go adventure. I did that with a couple of characters to. I think I have 2 max level character that have yet to begin their personal story.

Heylel.2109:

It’s hard to explain, but Dangerous feels like I’d be set in a living world, playing my part and all. While GW2 is like I’m reading a story, with the cooperative parts being only meant to further my equipments\grow in power. And that’s why the lack of some story-related events makes me feel holes in the narrative. Not sure if I managed to explain myself properly.

Elite Dangerous has story too. It just more secondary then Gw2.

minbariguy.7504:

Galen Grey.4709:

Thats the deal with bonuses, you go out of your way (pre-purchase), they go out of their way (give you bonuses).

And that’s my problem. A character slot is required in order to access the new profession. It should not be considered a “bonus”.

I have absolutely no problem with them giving extra stuff to people willing to pre-purchase. But when they try to withhold something that should be a standard component of any expansion pack that features a new playable profession and try to pass it off like it’s some wonderful “extra”, I have a problem with that.

They could have given away a thousand extra bonuses and I would have been fine with that. But a character slot is something that I expect to receive when I pay for an expansion that features a new profession. And again, I’m not asking for a “free” character slot. If I’m paying fifty bucks, it should be included in that price.

a character slot isnt required. Not everyone has all character slots used and there is always the option to delete a character. Its also been 8 months since HoT has been announced making 75 silver a day would have earned anyone enough to buy it using in game money. Thats not considering not everyone is interested in rolling a revanant. That also not considering as it is right now all you need to is buy the game the day before release rather then on release day and you’d also get the slot for free.

How exactly did you decide a free character slot should be standard with any expansion that has a new profession? Wrath of the lich king had a new profession, didnt give a free character slot. Heavensward has 3, no free character slot. Both of rifts expansions had new souls yet no extra character slot. Checking the latest offering, the collectors edition that costs 135 euro doesnt give you a free character slot.

Yes some games are nice and include a free character slot when they release new classes but thats far from a standard.

Heylel.2109:

minbariguy.7504:

You cannot create a revenant without an available character slot. If you do not have one available, ANet is expecting you to either delete an existing character that you have already spent a significant amount of time leveling, or pay an additional ten dollars on top of the fifty dollars you have already paid them for the expansion. Which is absolute rubbish.

Both scenarios are unacceptable, and the only way to avoid them is to give in and pre-purchase. But then, that was the intent all along.

Oh, yeah… I agree on that, for a moment I thought you were required to purchase a character slot even if you had a free one already in your account…

By the way, ANet should upgrade the pre-purchase page, because for how I see it there is no mention of a free slot if you buy the regular version. You need to pre-purchase the deluxe edition, that’s €75 for EU people, to get the extra character slot.

its there… hidden under this link: **Learn more about the additional pre-purchase offer
but yeah you’re absolutely right they should make this more in your face. Shouldnt be hidden away under an obscure link many will not even see much less check out.

Slavequo.8493:

Personally I am still confused about the free character slot.

Am I right to assume that pre-purchasing the base version of the expansion gives my account, which has been created on day 1, an extra character slot?

What happens if I Pre-purchase the Deluxe version, do I get 2 slots?

Yes, the additional character slot was added to all pre-purchase version in addition to what was already listed. Meaning that Deluxe and Ultimate will get 2 slots total.

Ayrilana.1396:

The price is not being bumped up for veteran players. You’ll start off exactly in the same position as a new player would.

I have to pay another $49 on top of the original $59 I originally paid.
Where do you not see this as a bump in price and how does $49 more put me in the same position as a new player?…Seems I’m down $49 more which isn’t exactly the same

I’m not saying I should get veteran treatment…Hell, I’m a military veteran and don’t get that at most places. All I’m saying is there should be an extended offer for those who have support Anet over the years. I got $50 credit and 6months HBO from Dish for being a loyal customer and asking if there were any new offers…I’m not complaining as much as I am asking…

dallasdirty.8524:

Ayrilana.1396:

The price is not being bumped up for veteran players. You’ll start off exactly in the same position as a new player would.

I have to pay another $49 on top of the original $59 I originally paid.
Where do you not see this as a bump in price and how does $49 more put me in the same position as a new player?…Seems I’m down $49 more which isn’t exactly the same

I’m not saying I should get veteran treatment…Hell, I’m a military veteran and don’t get that at most places. All I’m saying is there should be an extended offer for those who have support Anet over the years. I got $50 credit and 6months HBO from Dish for being a loyal customer and asking if there were any new offers…I’m not complaining as much as I am asking…

What you originally paid does not matter. It has zero impact on the price of the expansion. The core game being a free bonus when applied to a new account has no impact on the price of the expansion. It’s not a requirement to extend bonuses to existing customers. What Anet is doing is what many companies do to attract new customers.

Oh. And just to clarify what I meant about being in the same position as a new player. If you buy the expansion but apply it to a new account, you’ll be in the same position as a new player.

I understand that most companies do what Anet is doing to attract new business and it worked for my purchasing HoT for my son. However, most companies will almost always offer an incentive to maintain its current business-so it never hurts to ask. After reading later posts I see that we get an extended char slot-while this does nothing for me it was an offer.
I’m sure this has been mentioned over the 121pages or in another posting but will this expansion eventually force the core players to switch over and pay anyway or is this a stand alone expansion-as you said the core being a bonus
I appreciate your replies btw, Ayril

dallasdirty.8524:

I understand that most companies do what Anet is doing to attract new business and it worked for my purchasing HoT for my son. Most companies will almost always offer an incentive to maintain is current business. After reading later posts I see that we get an extended char slot-while this does nothing for me it was an offer.
I’m sure this has been mentioned over the 121pages or in another posting but will this expansion eventually force the core players to switch over and pay anyway or is this a stand alone expansion-as you said the core being a bonus
I appreciate your replies btw, Ayril

There’s currently a debate as to whether future living story seasons will require the expansion. We haven’t gotten anything from Anet regarding whether this is true or not. However, Anet has stated several times that those who do not purchase the expansion will still be able to play the core game.

Ayrilana.1396:

dallasdirty.8524:

I understand that most companies do what Anet is doing to attract new business and it worked for my purchasing HoT for my son. Most companies will almost always offer an incentive to maintain is current business. After reading later posts I see that we get an extended char slot-while this does nothing for me it was an offer.
I’m sure this has been mentioned over the 121pages or in another posting but will this expansion eventually force the core players to switch over and pay anyway or is this a stand alone expansion-as you said the core being a bonus
I appreciate your replies btw, Ayril

There’s currently a debate as to whether future living story seasons will require the expansion. We haven’t gotten anything from Anet regarding whether this is true or not. However, Anet has stated several times that those who do not purchase the expansion will still be able to play the core game.

Thanks!

Because there is massive wall of text here (which i can’t go through) can You guys tell me:
When pre-purchased do i get char slot on launch or immiedetaly after redeeming the code?

kuben.9826:

Because there is massive wall of text here (which i can’t go through) can You guys tell me:
When pre-purchased do i get char slot on launch or immiedetaly after redeeming the code?

Within a week since they do it in batches. If you buy a version that comes with one regardless as to your status, you get it immediately.

so….:

Character Slot: 800 gem = 10 $
Character Slot: 800 gem = 10 $
4000 gems = 50 $

So as far as im concerned im paying 30$ for HoT and a mini, finisher, skin and decoration.

Just stop complaining :O

30$ for HoT, mini, finisher, skin, decoration AND BETA weekend acess***

and cool exclusive title***

Galen Grey.4709:

a character slot isnt required.

I would love to see you create a revenant without one.

Galen Grey.4709:

Not everyone has all character slots used…

Irrelevant.

and there is always the option to delete a character.

Yes, and I mentioned that already. It’s a crappy option.

Galen Grey.4709:

Its also been 8 months since HoT has been announced making 75 silver a day would have earned anyone enough to buy it using in game money.

I shouldn’t have to save up in-game money if I am already giving them my real-life money.

Galen Grey.4709:

Thats not considering not everyone is interested in rolling a revanant.

Also irrelevant.

Galen Grey.4709:

That also not considering as it is right now all you need to is buy the game the day before release rather then on release day and you’d also get the slot for free.

There is no reason on Earth for ANet to require me to pre-purchase just to get a character slot to play the new profession. I do not pre-purchase, period. It doesn’t matter if they want me to pre-purchase a month before release, a day, or even five minutes. I won’t be manipulated into rewarding this kind of business behavior. Release your product, make sure it is good quality and contains everything I need to access the features of said product, and then take my money. Not before.

Galen Grey.4709:

How exactly did you decide a free character slot should be standard with any expansion that has a new profession? Wrath of the lich king had a new profession, didnt give a free character slot. Heavensward has 3, no free character slot. Both of rifts expansions had new souls yet no extra character slot. Checking the latest offering, the collectors edition that costs 135 euro doesnt give you a free character slot.

You keep using the word “free” to describe this character slot. Once again, if I am paying a company fifty dollars for an expansion that includes a new class/profession, I think it is reasonable to expect it to include a character slot for that price. Hence, not free.

Galen Grey.4709:

Yes some games are nice and include a free character slot when they release new classes…

And now we can agree that Guild Wars 2 (or rather ANet, the company) is not nice.

Galen Grey.4709:

…but thats far from a standard.

Though it is worth pointing out that it was standard practice for this game I used to play for quite a few years. It released several stand-alone campaigns, and I bought them all. I was a pretty loyal supporter of the company that made the game, too. I believe it was called “Guild Wars”. Perhaps you’ve heard of it?

Also, I wonder whatever happened to the company that made it?

In any case, Galen, I think we’ve taken this as far as we can go. You have your opinion, and are certainly entitled to it, as I am to mine. Neither of us is going to change the other’s mind, so there’s no point in continuing our debate.

Galen, FFXIV heavensward doesnt require a new charachter to play new proffesions, you can switch professions at any time outside of combat.
so they wouldnt need to give a charchter slot so that you can experience the new jobs.

I guess ArenaNet wasn’t ‘nice’ to begin with, as the core game came with 8 Professions and only 5 Character slots; something I remember from Guild Wars regarding their campaigns (that so many tout as ‘expansions’), as well.

Still, everyone has their own idea of what they are entitled to.

Good luck.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I guess ArenaNet wasn’t ‘nice’ to begin with, as the core game came with 8 Professions and only 5 Character slots; something I remember from Guild Wars, as well.

Still, everyone has their own idea of what they are entitled to.

Good luck.

but you could chose any of those proffesions. If you have full char slots now, you cant choose revenant.

basically you didnt buy any of the boxes without the ability to access any job that was added in that game.

minbariguy.7504:

Galen Grey.4709:

a character slot isnt required.

I would love to see you create a revenant without one.

I had 2 character slots free before they even announced HoT, bought the ultimate addition so ended up with 4 character slots so no even if i had the base game a character slot wouldnt have been required in my case and I am sure I am not the only person in the whole game who happened to have a free character slot. Lets not forget one thing people do is key farming which happens to require a relatively free character slot.

minbariguy.7504:

Galen Grey.4709:

Not everyone has all character slots used…

Irrelevant.

How is that less relevant than your “a character slot is required” statement? each individual person is in either one of two states either they have no free character slots in which case yes they need to get one, or they have free character slots and they dont need one.

minbariguy.7504:

Galen Grey.4709:

and there is always the option to delete a character.

Yes, and I mentioned that already. It’s a crappy option.

its definitely not a good one, but if you dont have a free character slot and you dont want to pre-order a day before launch and you dont have the ingame money to buy a slot and are not willing to earn the money ingame to buy a slot and are not willing to pay an extra $10… its an option, its the definitely not the only option.

minbariguy.7504:

Galen Grey.4709:

Its also been 8 months since HoT has been announced making 75 silver a day would have earned anyone enough to buy it using in game money.

I shouldn’t have to save up in-game money if I am already giving them my real-life money.

A free character slot isnt part of the base package so you didnt give them real-life money for a character slot. If you pay them even just 1 day in advance they’ll give you one for free. Maybe eventually they’ll change their mind and give it to everyone, who knows. Ultimately its their choice to make. If I got to a restaurant I can certainly argue hey I already gave you money for the food, drinks should be free but that doesnt mean I have standing or that it should happen does it?

minbariguy.7504:

Galen Grey.4709:

Thats not considering not everyone is interested in rolling a revanant.

Also irrelevant.

if you dont roll a revanant why is a free character slot mandatory? if you make a statement you cant just declare irrelevant aspects that dont support your statement.

minbariguy.7504:

Galen Grey.4709:

That also not considering as it is right now all you need to is buy the game the day before release rather then on release day and you’d also get the slot for free.

There is no reason on Earth for ANet to require me to pre-purchase just to get a character slot to play the new profession. I do not pre-purchase, period. It doesn’t matter if they want me to pre-purchase a month before release, a day, or even five minutes. I won’t be manipulated into rewarding this kind of business behavior. Release your product, make sure it is good quality and contains everything I need to access the features of said product, and then take my money. Not before.

that is essentially what they’re charging for it. dont want to pay the price, its your right but dont complain you’re not getting the product if you’re not willing to pay the price.

minbariguy.7504:

Galen Grey.4709:

How exactly did you decide a free character slot should be standard with any expansion that has a new profession? Wrath of the lich king had a new profession, didnt give a free character slot. Heavensward has 3, no free character slot. Both of rifts expansions had new souls yet no extra character slot. Checking the latest offering, the collectors edition that costs 135 euro doesnt give you a free character slot.

You keep using the word “free” to describe this character slot. Once again, if I am paying a company fifty dollars for an expansion that includes a new class/profession, I think it is reasonable to expect it to include a character slot for that price. Hence, not free.

You keep saying you need a free character slot to play the new class/profession but as I already explained you dont, there are several options open to you how you can play that profession without paying extra.

minbariguy.7504:

Galen Grey.4709:

Yes some games are nice and include a free character slot when they release new classes…

And now we can agree that Guild Wars 2 (or rather ANet, the company) is not nice.

about this no they’re not being nice. Big deal, they’d be nice if they gave HoT away for free too but they didnt. They dont have to be nice to be reasonable.

minbariguy.7504:

Galen Grey.4709:

…but thats far from a standard.

Though it is worth pointing out that it was standard practice for this game I used to play for quite a few years. It released several stand-alone campaigns, and I bought them all. I was a pretty loyal supporter of the company that made the game, too. I believe it was called “Guild Wars”. Perhaps you’ve heard of it?

Only thing they never gave free character slots with the expanion of Gw, coincidentally they never released a new profession for the expansion of Gw so thats not exactly definite. As for their campaigns they were stand alone products, so one could buy nightfall without owning prophecies, now in that case a character is truely required for there is no way to play the game without one unlike this case. Then again prophecies came with 4 character slots and had 6 professions so even out of the box there was no way to play them all without buying more slots even though you had paid them real world cash already.

minbariguy.7504:

Also, I wonder whatever happened to the company that made it?

In any case, Galen, I think we’ve taken this as far as we can go. You have your opinion, and are certainly entitled to it, as I am to mine. Neither of us is going to change the other’s mind, so there’s no point in continuing our debate.

true

phys.7689:

Galen, FFXIV heavensward doesnt require a new charachter to play new proffesions, you can switch professions at any time outside of combat.
so they wouldnt need to give a charchter slot so that you can experience the new jobs.

True yet that doesnt stop them from charging players 2 euro a month if they want more then 1 character

phys.7689:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I guess ArenaNet wasn’t ‘nice’ to begin with, as the core game came with 8 Professions and only 5 Character slots; something I remember from Guild Wars, as well.

Still, everyone has their own idea of what they are entitled to.

Good luck.

but you could chose any of those proffesions. If you have full char slots now, you cant choose revenant.

basically you didnt buy any of the boxes without the ability to access any job that was added in that game.

Unless you want to access more then 4 professions in Prophecies you mean? If you wanted to try them all what then? No other option then deleting one or forking $20. Here at least you have other less drastic options like if you’re going to buy anyway why not buy a day early?

I have old Guild wars 2, but i dont understand, why I pay this game once more if I buy Heart of Thorns.

Hmm…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-Price-Feedback-Base-game-included-merged

Here is your answer, just a few threads down… Even red posts in it.

mafioyo.2458:

I have old Guild wars 2, but i dont understand, why I pay this game once more if I buy Heart of Thorns.

You’re not paying for it again. The “core” game will be included in expansions. That means if they want to play the living stories in the “core” game they will have to pay for the episodes. So the people buying HoT are not getting the complete game like you have as far as storyline and content. If a person wants to truly experience everything that Guild Wars 2 has to offer story wise they are going be paying more.

Galen Grey.4709:

phys.7689:

Galen, FFXIV heavensward doesnt require a new charachter to play new proffesions, you can switch professions at any time outside of combat.
so they wouldnt need to give a charchter slot so that you can experience the new jobs.

True yet that doesnt stop them from charging players 2 euro a month if they want more then 1 character

you can do everything in game with one charachter though,

Galen Grey.4709:

phys.7689:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I guess ArenaNet wasn’t ‘nice’ to begin with, as the core game came with 8 Professions and only 5 Character slots; something I remember from Guild Wars, as well.

Still, everyone has their own idea of what they are entitled to.

Good luck.

but you could chose any of those proffesions. If you have full char slots now, you cant choose revenant.

basically you didnt buy any of the boxes without the ability to access any job that was added in that game.

Unless you want to access more then 4 professions in Prophecies you mean? If you wanted to try them all what then? No other option then deleting one or forking $20. Here at least you have other less drastic options like if you’re going to buy anyway why not buy a day early?

and for this expansion, you dont even have that option if your char is full.

Many people wont buy a day early, beacuse many people may not even be aware of the game. Many others dont believe in giving people money for something before it is given to them.
Regardless in terms of the actual value of the game, and what players should be given in the base box, prepurchase bonus solves nothing.

lets fast forward to the day after release. Someone wants to buy the game. He says, its crappy that i have to delete my charachter or pay 10 bucks before i can even try out revenant. Do you tell him his complaints and worry is groundless, because he should go back in time and buy it 2 days ago?

They shut a lot of people up, by offering charachter slot as a prepurchase bonus (the people were complaining about the base game not the prepurchase bonus) but that doesnt actually solve the problem.

Its like if someone is selling a car with no seat, people complain, and he says everyone who buys this car before it comes out on the 5th gets a free seat.

he has not solved the problem at all. People who prepurchase may no longer care/make a big deal about it, but the problem they had with the product still exists. The product they are offering has not improved, merely their prepurchase bonus. Everyone who buys after the 5th still has a problem.

Basically they are giving veterans a much worse product unless they buy ahead of time. AND keep in mind their return system (from what we ve seen in the past) basically means you have to delete your account.
If someone buys the game the day after it comes out, realizes they have to delete one of their charachters and wants their money back, they likely have to delete their whole account. This is a purchase you really should make with all the information, and even reviews, because its lilkely that you will not be able to refund just the expansion, and yet they are strongly encouraging players to leap before they look.

Prepurchase bonuses should be extra uneeded things, not things basic to experiencing the content of the game.

phys.7689:

Galen Grey.4709:

phys.7689:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I guess ArenaNet wasn’t ‘nice’ to begin with, as the core game came with 8 Professions and only 5 Character slots; something I remember from Guild Wars, as well.

Still, everyone has their own idea of what they are entitled to.

Good luck.

but you could chose any of those proffesions. If you have full char slots now, you cant choose revenant.

basically you didnt buy any of the boxes without the ability to access any job that was added in that game.

Unless you want to access more then 4 professions in Prophecies you mean? If you wanted to try them all what then? No other option then deleting one or forking $20. Here at least you have other less drastic options like if you’re going to buy anyway why not buy a day early?

and for this expansion, you dont even have that option if your char is full.

Many people wont buy a day early, beacuse many people may not even be aware of the game. Many others dont believe in giving people money for something before it is given to them.
Regardless in terms of the actual value of the game, and what players should be given in the base box, prepurchase bonus solves nothing.

lets fast forward to the day after release. Someone wants to buy the game. He says, its crappy that i have to delete my charachter or pay 10 bucks before i can even try out revenant. Do you tell him his complaints and worry is groundless, because he should go back in time and buy it 2 days ago?

They shut a lot of people up, by offering charachter slot as a prepurchase bonus (the people were complaining about the base game not the prepurchase bonus) but that doesnt actually solve the problem.

Its like if someone is selling a car with no seat, people complain, and he says everyone who buys this car before it comes out on the 5th gets a free seat.

he has not solved the problem at all. People who prepurchase may no longer care/make a big deal about it, but the problem they had with the product still exists. The product they are offering has not improved, merely their prepurchase bonus. Everyone who buys after the 5th still has a problem.

Basically they are giving veterans a much worse product unless they buy ahead of time. AND keep in mind their return system (from what we ve seen in the past) basically means you have to delete your account.
If someone buys the game the day after it comes out, realizes they have to delete one of their charachters and wants their money back, they likely have to delete their whole account. This is a purchase you really should make with all the information, and even reviews, because its lilkely that you will not be able to refund just the expansion, and yet they are strongly encouraging players to leap before they look.

Prepurchase bonuses should be extra uneeded things, not things basic to experiencing the content of the game.

I think your reasoning is nothing better as saying:
The expansion is crappy cause my bank is full and now I can’t store any of the new goodies that drop for the new pre-cursor system.

An expansion (or DLC) exist in its core of content and features that are new.
All other things have always been something that is additional.

The things that are added will always be something you get for “free” with the expansion itself.

If people need an extra characterslot, or a bankslot, they are always available. for a certain fee. Unlike in GW1, you are not locked out of those features. The pre-order bonus gives the people that pre-ordered them for free. The rest has to pay for them.
The bonus offer of a pre-order has a value. it is worth 10 USD/Euro. If people need an extra character slot and don’t pre-order, all they have to do is pay another 10 USD/Euro. As with any offer. They end at a certain date. If you are too late. “we are very sorry”.

Off course, you can judge that such a price is too expensive. But compared to other games and looking at the amount of content we are actually getting for free between payed releases, I think the GW2 prices are more the reasonable. I’ve payed in total bout 250 euro to Arenanet for 4 years gameplay (assuming, the next payed expansion after HoT is atleast one year away. With a competing game like Wow that would be 4*50 euro for the core game and the expansions + 4*120 euro monthly fees. So a total of 680 euro’s. That is a difference of 430 euro. On top of that, many purchases at Arenanet I made where not required to play at all. I did it cause I wanted to.

phys.7689:

Galen Grey.4709:

phys.7689:

Galen, FFXIV heavensward doesnt require a new charachter to play new proffesions, you can switch professions at any time outside of combat.
so they wouldnt need to give a charchter slot so that you can experience the new jobs.

True yet that doesnt stop them from charging players 2 euro a month if they want more then 1 character

you can do everything in game with one charachter though,

No you cant. You cannot switch gender, you cannot switch race. That is important to roleplayers. Some roll alts to avoid raid lockouts. Some people like certain professions for specific genders / races. Some people like multiple characters so they can try different armor styles etc.. There are many reasons why people want alts on FFXIV, if no one did they wouldnt charge 2 euros more per month would they?

phys.7689:

and for this expansion, you dont even have that option if your char is full.

Many people wont buy a day early, beacuse many people may not even be aware of the game. Many others dont believe in giving people money for something before it is given to them.
Regardless in terms of the actual value of the game, and what players should be given in the base box, prepurchase bonus solves nothing.

If people are not aware of the game (assuming you didnt mean expansion) then they havent bought it yet and when they do they’re going to have 5 slots fee. if you meant Expansion, then they’re not active users which likely means they barely played the game which means they probably still have free slots or low level characters they can delete alterantively since they clearly would barely have played GW2 they also free to open a new account with HoT and get 5 new slots provided HoT fixes what they had issues with in the first place.

phys.7689:

lets fast forward to the day after release. Someone wants to buy the game. He says, its crappy that i have to delete my charachter or pay 10 bucks before i can even try out revenant. Do you tell him his complaints and worry is groundless, because he should go back in time and buy it 2 days ago?

No, there is no use to cry on spilled milk. In that case I would suggest s/he start saving gold and buy a slot when they have enough. Then again s/he knew they needed a character slot, why wait the 2 days? What changed in those 2 days ?

phys.7689:

They shut a lot of people up, by offering charachter slot as a prepurchase bonus (the people were complaining about the base game not the prepurchase bonus) but that doesnt actually solve the problem.

Of course it does, the actual issue is lacking a character slot not that the release game doesnt have a character slot included. The issue is solved once you get the character slot, what difference does it make if its given to you on pre-purchase or post-release in that regard?

phys.7689:

Its like if someone is selling a car with no seat, people complain, and he says everyone who buys this car before it comes out on the 5th gets a free seat.

he has not solved the problem at all.

This is totally different. Car dealership is selling a new model of a car. If you have an old model they’re also offering to upgrade your old model to the specs of the new model, for a price. The new model comes with some new USB accessory only you’re already using the 5 usb ports on your car stereo. So the car dealership offers to upgrade your stereo to 6 usb ports if you buy the car before it comes out. Its not a big deal because people who already own the model will bar some exceptions all buy at release. Only new customers and those few exception are going to buy the new car in the far future. New customers are unaffected since they’ll get 5 free usb ports anyway.

phys.7689:

People who prepurchase may no longer care/make a big deal about it, but the problem they had with the product still exists. The product they are offering has not improved, merely their prepurchase bonus. Everyone who buys after the 5th still has a problem.

They dont care because they got what they wanted and they dont care if they have to prepurchase or not because if you know you’re going to buy it anyway it is not a big deal at all.

phys.7689:

Basically they are giving veterans a much worse product unless they buy ahead of time. AND keep in mind their return system (from what we ve seen in the past) basically means you have to delete your account.

No, they’re not giving veterans a much worst product unless they buy ahead of time. They’re giving everyone the same product, the character slot is a bonus. Not everyone needs one and not having one doesnt make the game any worst in any case.

phys.7689:

If someone buys the game the day after it comes out, realizes they have to delete one of their charachters and wants their money back, they likely have to delete their whole account. This is a purchase you really should make with all the information, and even reviews, because its lilkely that you will not be able to refund just the expansion, and yet they are strongly encouraging players to leap before they look.

Prepurchase bonuses should be extra uneeded things, not things basic to experiencing the content of the game.

How is that different from buying gw2 and find out you love all the professions and thus need 3 more character slots. Should everyone who has more then 5 alts request a refund because their original purchase didnt come with everything they ended up needing? How about the make over kit? Or dyes? Or outfits? where exactly do you draw the line?

Thing is I think people are not looking at this from Anet shoes. What they’re asking from us pales in comparison to what we asked of them. Did you stop and think what giving away that free character slot means to Arenanet ? I bet they lost 100s of 1000s if not millions because of that!

think about it for a second.
How many people needed a character slot and though okey I have to pay $10 extra for sure. For $15 more I can get all the nifty stuff in the deluxe version. okey lets go for it. But now that they get the character slot for free? nahh I dont need the character slot and $25 for the rest of the stuff its too much… $25 lost there.

Obviously there are the people who intended to buy the $10 character slot but now they no longer have to etc..

It adds up quickly. To loose $1M it only takes 40k people who decided since now they get a free character slot they no longer need to go with the deluxe version.

That has repercussions even for us. Anet have one of the largest if not the largest MMO development team in the industry. They have to justify that with a strong performance. If They are loosing millions to make us happy is it really that big of a deal they’re asking us to buy up to 1 day early? Doing that we give them some ammunication.

Hey NCSoft bosses, yeah well we didnt a bit worst then what had projected (due to loosing revenue from slots / deluxe version) but hey look at the numbers.. Pre-Purchasing exceeded expectation So while we didnt hit the numbers we at least confirmed we have a loyal following who are likely to buy our next expansion etc..

Is that really an unfair thing to ask in return for millions?

Galen Grey.4709:

phys.7689:

and for this expansion, you dont even have that option if your char is full.

Many people wont buy a day early, beacuse many people may not even be aware of the game. Many others dont believe in giving people money for something before it is given to them.
Regardless in terms of the actual value of the game, and what players should be given in the base box, prepurchase bonus solves nothing.

If people are not aware of the game (assuming you didnt mean expansion) then they havent bought it yet and when they do they’re going to have 5 slots fee. if you meant Expansion, then they’re not active users which likely means they barely played the game which means they probably still have free slots or low level characters they can delete alterantively since they clearly would barely have played GW2 they also free to open a new account with HoT and get 5 new slots provided HoT fixes what they had issues with in the first place.

phys.7689:

lets fast forward to the day after release. Someone wants to buy the game. He says, its crappy that i have to delete my charachter or pay 10 bucks before i can even try out revenant. Do you tell him his complaints and worry is groundless, because he should go back in time and buy it 2 days ago?

No, there is no use to cry on spilled milk. In that case I would suggest s/he start saving gold and buy a slot when they have enough. Then again s/he knew they needed a character slot, why wait the 2 days? What changed in those 2 days ?

phys.7689:

They shut a lot of people up, by offering charachter slot as a prepurchase bonus (the people were complaining about the base game not the prepurchase bonus) but that doesnt actually solve the problem.

Of course it does, the actual issue is lacking a character slot not that the release game doesnt have a character slot included. The issue is solved once you get the character slot, what difference does it make if its given to you on pre-purchase or post-release in that regard?

phys.7689:

Its like if someone is selling a car with no seat, people complain, and he says everyone who buys this car before it comes out on the 5th gets a free seat.

he has not solved the problem at all.

This is totally different. Car dealership is selling a new model of a car. If you have an old model they’re also offering to upgrade your old model to the specs of the new model, for a price. The new model comes with some new USB accessory only you’re already using the 5 usb ports on your car stereo. So the car dealership offers to upgrade your stereo to 6 usb ports if you buy the car before it comes out. Its not a big deal because people who already own the model will bar some exceptions all buy at release. Only new customers and those few exception are going to buy the new car in the far future. New customers are unaffected since they’ll get 5 free usb ports anyway.

phys.7689:

People who prepurchase may no longer care/make a big deal about it, but the problem they had with the product still exists. The product they are offering has not improved, merely their prepurchase bonus. Everyone who buys after the 5th still has a problem.

They dont care because they got what they wanted and they dont care if they have to prepurchase or not because if you know you’re going to buy it anyway it is not a big deal at all.

phys.7689:

Basically they are giving veterans a much worse product unless they buy ahead of time. AND keep in mind their return system (from what we ve seen in the past) basically means you have to delete your account.

No, they’re not giving veterans a much worst product unless they buy ahead of time. They’re giving everyone the same product, the character slot is a bonus. Not everyone needs one and not having one doesnt make the game any worst in any case.

phys.7689:

If someone buys the game the day after it comes out, realizes they have to delete one of their charachters and wants their money back, they likely have to delete their whole account. This is a purchase you really should make with all the information, and even reviews, because its lilkely that you will not be able to refund just the expansion, and yet they are strongly encouraging players to leap before they look.

Prepurchase bonuses should be extra uneeded things, not things basic to experiencing the content of the game.

How is that different from buying gw2 and find out you love all the professions and thus need 3 more character slots. Should everyone who has more then 5 alts request a refund because their original purchase didnt come with everything they ended up needing? How about the make over kit? Or dyes? Or outfits? where exactly do you draw the line?

1) i meant people who lapsed in playing and are not prepurchasing for whatever reason, be it lack of knowledge or lack of desire.

2) It doesnt really matter what happened in two days, maybe they didnt know till their brother reminded them, maybe they wanted a review, maybe they are opposed to prepurchases, maybe they were on vacation. Its not really relevant why. The only thing that matters is they are going to be buying the same product that many many veterans felt was not good enough or annoying or seemed shady that caused them to start en masse refusing to buy, or general customer dissatisfaction.

3) it does not solve the problem people have with the product overall, it solves the problem for those people who prepurchase. Anyone who doesnt is buying the same product that caused mass dissatisfaction

4) we arent talking about new customers. We are talking about veterans. AKA people who bought and played the game previously. They are being told that to access one of the main features, they will have make an additional purchase from the same company. Many people dont like that idea.

5) its not a big deal to those people, but it would be if they didnt prepurchase. Thats the point. Its simply not a palletable product unless you prepurchase. Thats a problem for everyone who doesnt/didnt prepurchase. Let me make it clearer. If my product is only viable to people when its on sale, that means i have the wrong price point. If Hot is only worth it for veterans if they prepurchase, it means their regular purchase price/features are not good.
6) yes, a bonus means you are getting a worse product. Which normally is fine, if the product is already satisfactory on its own. The problem is that it wasnt satisfactory on its own.

If when i release a product, i have a lot disinterest and anger, a short term bonus, is a short term solution. Even if the bonus makes all bonus people happy, after the bonus is gone, the same problem returns.
some one says pepsi is going to cost 10 dollars for a 2 liter bottle, customers are angry, few people are buying pepsi. Because of this, they say for the next moneth pepsi is going to cost 2 dollars for 2 liters! Everyones happy and cheers.
what happens when the month is up? nobodies buying pepsi

7)My point not about the overall nature of returns, my point is because of the type of return system they have, prepurchasing is actually a really bad idea before you have all the information. They are fusing the products. A person who is satisfied with the base game, but dissatisfied with the expansion, probably wont be able to go back. Now people would normally say, you are an idiot, if you werent sure, why did you prepurchase? But in this case anet is basically giving people reasons to set up this lose lose scenario.

Galen Grey.4709:

Thing is I think people are not looking at this from Anet shoes. What they’re asking from us pales in comparison to what we asked of them. Did you stop and think what giving away that free character slot means to Arenanet ? I bet they lost 100s of 1000s if not millions because of that!

think about it for a second.
How many people needed a character slot and though okey I have to pay $10 extra for sure. For $15 more I can get all the nifty stuff in the deluxe version. okey lets go for it. But now that they get the character slot for free? nahh I dont need the character slot and $25 for the rest of the stuff its too much… $25 lost there.

Obviously there are the people who intended to buy the $10 character slot but now they no longer have to etc..

It adds up quickly. To loose $1M it only takes 40k people who decided since now they get a free character slot they no longer need to go with the deluxe version.

That has repercussions even for us. Anet have one of the largest if not the largest MMO development team in the industry. They have to justify that with a strong performance. If They are loosing millions to make us happy is it really that big of a deal they’re asking us to buy up to 1 day early? Doing that we give them some ammunication.

Hey NCSoft bosses, yeah well we didnt a bit worst then what had projected (due to loosing revenue from slots / deluxe version) but hey look at the numbers.. Pre-Purchasing exceeded expectation So while we didnt hit the numbers we at least confirmed we have a loyal following who are likely to buy our next expansion etc..

Is that really an unfair thing to ask in return for millions?

being in business means coming up with workable products, the reason they offered char slots, was because the money they looked like they were going to lose, was not equalling the money in the initial situation.
heres the real deal.
If they make a very good product, they will make enough money to be a front runner in the company. GW2 sold like 3 million copies in the first month. Some good products struggle due to poor marketing, bad luck, or just people being unaware. GW2 is not one of those. They have hit 3 million users, if not closer 4-5 million by now. If the product is good they will make more than enough money.

If you look at anets earnings, sales, business model, and products, you realize charachter slots with a 50 dollar purchase are extremely profitable.

keep in mind they had a highly successful release, and that cost 60 dollars and had 5 charachter slots. It also was a bigger product, had 5 years of development to recoup, and tons of new tech. This is an expansion, a fairly small one, using pre existing engine, resources, and development (one of the main advantages of expansions) 50 dollars giving players one slot (which has no development cost, inventory cost, distribution cost, man power cost) is not some sort of holding the company for ransom.

…after having bought the game full price after hot was announced (the second time actually cause i didnt have the original account anymore)…right before the sale was announced – didnt profit
right before we knew hout would include the base game
now the game will go free
I have no problem with supporting the devs – but i kinda feel like an idiot for actually paying and supporting the dev – and i feel that a lot of full paying customers might feel a bit the same way – now even more than after the hot-full-game-gate
I understand that anet wants to attract new clients (even if they will be toxic locust) – they just should watch out not to loose the loyal ones they are having…

sure it would eventually go this way – but this kind of very quick succession feels like a cash grab – like something sleazy devs on steam would do…it doesnt feel good to me and with this kind of deflationary tendency, the only thing your telling your customers is that they should hold of with buying your stuff cause soon, very soon, they will get much better deals anyway…

Nemesis.6938:

…after having bought the game full price after hot was announced (the second time actually cause i didnt have the original account anymore)…right before the sale was announced – didnt profit
right before we knew hout would include the base game
now the game will go free
I have no problem with supporting the devs – but i kinda feel like an idiot for actually paying and supporting the dev – and i feel that a lot of full paying customers might feel a bit the same way – now even more than after the hot-full-game-gate
I understand that anet wants to attract new clients (even if they will be toxic locust) – they just should watch out not to loose the loyal ones they are having…

sure it would eventually go this way – but this kind of very quick succession feels like a cash grab – like something sleazy devs on steam would do…it doesnt feel good to me and with this of deflationary tendency, the only thing your telling your cliens is that they should hold of with buying your stuff cause soon, very soon, they will get much better deals anyway…

What are you even talking about?

You know that were was a refund option for those who bought the core game after the HoT announcement?

so, you would rather have waited to play the game, til it goes F2P over playing now, getting to 80, etc. all the fun stuff that goes along with it. In preparation for HoT.

This logic cracks me up, like people who have played since launch getting flustered about the game going F2P or the HoT deal where the core game is included…you really would have rathered wait? This is such a dumb argument :X

Shall we wait and find out what it’s all about first from ANet before losing our collective kitten? It’s not like we know what IGN was talking about.